I teach open access online courses for the University of Oxford. If you fancy taking a course with me, you can find out more information about the courses here: www.conted.ox.ac.uk/tutors/7139
@LadyIarConnacht
Жыл бұрын
Charlotte "met him by accident" in the lane and quickly snapped him up - lol. There was no moss growing on Charlotte Lucas.
@kansmill
Жыл бұрын
I wish I could ❤ I might do these eventually with some of my homeschooled kids.
@byusaranicole
Жыл бұрын
Oh wow! I am SERIOUSLY considering this as a summer gift to myself! But for now, I can't get over the fact that British people spell enroll with one L! What?!? 🤯
@aciddrive1019
Жыл бұрын
Good to see you back! I'd think about taking the Jane Austen course, but I'm such a slow reader (I misread stuff all the time and have to read it again) - not sure I'd keep up. I might be the only bloke too.
@patriciapineyro
Жыл бұрын
Mary Bennet had the same thoughts as Charlotte Lucas, they knows that Mr Collins is manageable, and they can make of hin what they want to do with that, but Charlotte is more awake and more experienced in the matter. Is nice to have You Back!!
@gowanmetal
Жыл бұрын
I love how the inclusion of Mary in the family really drives home what a fraud Mr Collins is- if he was really as sober and pious and thoughtful as he presents himself, he would have naturally chosen Mary, who was perfect for him in her temperament and actually possessed the traits he attempted to project onto Lizzie… but that’s not what he does. He goes for the prettiest sisters in order and doesn’t actually look deeply into who they are as people. Mary would have LOVED to listen to him reading moral treatise every evening.😅
@kahkah1986
Жыл бұрын
I think it would have made him look less good, if he was known to have gone for the younger one over the older one, even today people look down on men who choose the younger woman, but absolutely, he doesn't really know what he is doing, his virtue is performative. Good people read sermons so he reads sermons, etc.
@judiemeierfranz4329
Жыл бұрын
@kahkah1986 that's an interesting perspective. It's making me look at the story differently. It never occurred to me, about the age difference. I suppose that may be another reason Mr. Collins wouldn't consider Mary - she's not pretty or witty enough to get his attention and he doesn't seem to seriously consider the younger girls; maybe bc without intriguing qualities (to him) he doesn't even "see" them due to young age? Austen makes a strong reference to Charlotte's age. The only Austen story where I personally noticed age difference was Emma. You're right about culture- even now, that's not seen as widely "acceptable", so might not be in line w Mr. Collins ideas for his reputation.
@--enyo--
Жыл бұрын
And moralising herself. I always thought they would have been well suited. They’d sort of echo chamber each other’s ego of accomplishment and propriety. They’d likely be insufferable to everyone around them, but at least one of the Bennett girls could have retained Longbourn and Mary probably would have been happier in the relationship than Charlotte.
@londongael414
Жыл бұрын
I agree that Mr Collins is attracted by looks over any other characteristic, but, to be fair to him, he would also consider it right to proceed in order of age. Lydia makes much of being married before any of her sisters, but it was generally considered preferable for older sisters to be married before younger ones. Remember how shocked Lady Catherine is when she learns that the younger sisters are all "out" before the older ones are married!
@GradKat
Жыл бұрын
Well why SHOULDN’T he go for the prettiest sisters? What man wouldn’t? He was only 25 after all.
@greenbrain8725
Жыл бұрын
Yes, oh yes she did.
@marquitaarmstrong399
Жыл бұрын
I have to go back and read again. For the umpteenth time. Love Jane Austen
@Eloraurora
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, while Mary may have been attracted to him as a like-minded person, Charlotte is the more functional match. There's no indication of Mary's skill level in household economy, we're told explicitly that she can't cook, and she's not socially perceptive in the networking/politicking way that might help Mr. Collins to rise in the church. I think the theoretical Mary Collins would struggle to maintain her high-minded philosophizing in a life with suddenly increased practical demands.
@voluntaryismistheanswer
Жыл бұрын
I think sucking up to Lady Catherine would have galled. They were an obvious match by the obvious standards, but I do not think they would have been a felicitous one (Charlotte had fewer options, and knew what she was signing up for- I'm glad for Mary and her semicanonical uncle's clerk).
@Eloraurora
Жыл бұрын
@@voluntaryismistheanswer Yes! I also prefer Mary × Clerk, because it keeps her close to her existing social network.
@athag1
Жыл бұрын
@@voluntaryismistheanswer who is Mary’s semicanonical uncle’s clerk? What am I missing?
@danielrobinson7350
Жыл бұрын
@@athag1 Austen told her nephew that Kitty married a Clergyman near Pemberley and Mary married one of her uncles clerks.
@athag1
Жыл бұрын
@@danielrobinson7350 Thanks! That’s cool! Do you know if it’s in one of her letters or is it something her nephew related in his memoir?
@sarahgoldberg6614
Жыл бұрын
I played Mary Bennett many years ago, and the production I was in leaned heavily into middle child syndrome. Mary is the most isolated of the sisters - everyone else has a built in buddy. I ultimately saw her obsession with books as a desperate way to make some sort of connection with her father, because she has given up on even being seen by the rest of her family. Also, every 18 year old intellectual ever is pretty insufferable for a few years.
@louisegogel7973
Жыл бұрын
It must have been very interesting to get into that role and play it out.
@DivinePearl
Жыл бұрын
I've always perceived her as someone on the spectrum. She appears to fail to see some social cues and happy with her own company.
@Delightindifference
10 ай бұрын
I have two siblings on each side. I connected with her character so much.
@Moriahg
10 ай бұрын
Sadly I can relate to Mary way too much.
@ct.widget2847
9 ай бұрын
That's me!❤
@jennygenserwhite9562
Жыл бұрын
One thing to remember is that Mr. Collins was a young man himself, about 25 years of age. Most of the movies and series show him as much older. Mary thinking that she can help out her peer is much more reasonable than her thinking she can influence a 35-year-old, which is how he is usually portrayed.
@GradKat
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Jenny! It frustrates me that Mr Collins is always portrayed by actors who are too old.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
I think maybe it's done to make his character seem worse...? When reading the original text he's pretty obnoxious, for sure, but it does seem as if (like Lydia) his folly is at least partially contributed to by his youth and lack of experience? Not sure if he would've improved with age, mind you, esp. with Lady C egging him on and no check to his idiocies from Charlotte who seems rather to try and just avoid him as much as possible!
@jspohl
Жыл бұрын
His behaviour does seem sillier when you think of how young he is but I often think kindly of him - and that he means well and has no ill intent so Charlotte should feel good about that.
@helenamcginty4920
Жыл бұрын
Most people are who they are going to be by 25. I dont count that as young. Even though I can give him 50 years.
@SafetySpooon
Жыл бұрын
I think the novel points out that he is old for his years, & that's why they age the character. OTOH, none of the actresses who play the sisters are in their teens, or 21/22....
@llatew7126
11 ай бұрын
I think there's an interesting contrast between how Mary's feelings towards Mr Collins and Charlotte's. Mary is interested in moulding him into someone she would be happy with, Charlotte is focused on how to engineer her situation to make herself content with him as he is. I think Mr Collins' follies are not likely to be changed which untimately makes Charlotte a better match for him. She is able to be content without expecting him to change, whereas had Mary married him she would likely have ended up miserable when she discovered she could not force the improvements she wanted to make to his character.
@edithengel2284
8 ай бұрын
Well said.
@caraxkins
Жыл бұрын
My first impression of this set up and disappointed pay off was to cast shade on Mr. Collins character; that he would pursue the most beautiful available Bennett sister and not the one he was, in theory, most suited to. He cared more about beauty, charm and flattery than his air of values.
@elianwolfert3879
Жыл бұрын
Indeed. Also it is extra painful to Mrs Bennet. Had Collins married Mary after Lizzy’s refusal, all would be well and Lizzy would be forgiven instantly. But with Lizzy’s best friend Charlotte snapping up Mr Collins, Lizzy ruined the family’s fortune in her mother’s eyes. 😅
@LadyIarConnacht
Жыл бұрын
@@elianwolfert3879 It always seemed to me consistent with the Bennets' general neglect of Mary. They don't really notice her until later, when all the other sisters have moved away. They don't even think about pointing Mr. Collins in her direction. Still, he's probably better off with Charlotte as she is so practical.
@keithprice475
7 ай бұрын
It is very easy to cast shade on Mr Collins' character! It truly is not very good.
@peccantis
5 ай бұрын
Mr. Collins is clearly written as someone whose preference is easy to sway. He's the sort of person, had he proposed down the entire flock of the Bennet sisters, would have easily found ways to qualify why each of them was the loveliest in his eye, and certainly the best suited for him, in the required order, without ever as much as a suggestion of backbone. He's very dedicated to playing the part of a virtuous man, but lacks true principled virtues. It should be noted that at the time, personal compatibility between prospective future spouses, while often considered an important thing to consider for a successful match, was thought of in very different terms to how we think of it today. We may think of how temperaments and personality types will play off each other, whether traits will cause tensions or mesh well together, how strong and weak points may overlap and aggravate or compensate, and so on. For the 1810s, being compatible was more of a smell test. Does it seem evident that profound misery is unavoidable should the two enter wedlock? No? They're passing compatible. Another important point is that proposing in descending age order was thought as the proper thing to do. As long as Lizzie was eligible, it would have been an affront to her and her parents to bypass her as the eldest daughter. Women may not been able to inherit, but their birth order was still a precedence to be respected. Bypassing the Miss Bennett without as much as a token suggestion to propose, for her or her parents to turn down, would not just be rude but constitute a red flag. Who would flout such basic propriety to pursue a younger sister? A frivolous man of the worst sort, one concerned more with superficial charm and satisfying romantic fancies than making a functional match for running a household and a family. And Mr. Collins may be a superficial and coarse-witted buffoon, but he's not one to flout propriety.
@MindiB
Жыл бұрын
I certainly agree that Mary would have accepted Mr. Collins, but I doubt Mr. Collins would have redirected his attentions to Mary. He had so high an opinion of himself that despite proposing to Elizabeth, one of the two prettiest and brightest of the sisters, he still felt compelled to remind her that she would inherit little from her father-and that thus his attentions were particularly disinterested and Lizzie particularly fortunate to receive them. Charlotte, on the other hand, while plain, has a titled father whose significant estate and familiarity with appearances at Court, etc., would have appealed to Mr. Collins’ vanity and ambition.
@outsideofenough6466
Жыл бұрын
I agree! Mr. Collins was very fond of himself. When Lady Catherine chose him, she inflated his ego to the stratosphere. During his proposal to Lizzie, he talked as though he was really quite a catch and felt sure she would marry him. He thought himself much superior to dull, unattractive Mary, and I think he married Charlotte to spite the Bennets for Lizzie’s refusal as well as for his perceived superiority over Mary. He also wouldn’t want to take the chance that a third Bennet sister might reject him.
@RKNancy
10 ай бұрын
He was going to propose to Jane but when he saw another man courting her, he gave up and courted Lizzy. It's awful how little he thought of them as people.
@franziskani
8 ай бұрын
Charlotte's family was NOT wealthy and the knighted father was not much of an asset, they were accepted in their circles, but were not outstanding. Charlotte saw that realistic, for her the proposal of Mr. Collins was good luck (the knighthood of her father meant nothing to potential suitors and it did not really give them a HIGH status. They were acceptable, but nothing more. Everyone knew that her father had been in trade before he got knighted, likely Mr. Collins saw himself higher in status even before he would inherit the Bennet property. Her father gave up trade for the title and for becoming part of the gentry. (He could not be a gentleman and continute to be in trade). He was foolish to do so, the family would have been better off financially if he had not aspired for higher socials status. The family did not have a cook (the girls had to help in the kitchen), Mrs. Bennet was proud that she kept a much better table (so better food, and more dishes per meal to chose from). The Lucas' girls most likely could not expect a decent dowry and Charlotte said that she is already a burden on her parents (being 29 or 27, I forgot the number, she mentions it when she tells Lizzy that she is engaged to Mr. Collins). They were not wealthy OR prestigious, they just could keep up ....
@franziskani
8 ай бұрын
@@RKNancy No Mrs. Bennet - when Mr. Collins disclosed his intentions (which were honorable btw) - told him right away that Jane was as good as engaged (Mr. Bingley was still around, so she did not even lie) but as for Lizzy I do not know of any attachment. SHE greenlighted Lizzy for him. (And Mary knew of course that no one even CONSIDERED her, not her mother and not Mr. Collins).
@LusiaEyre
Жыл бұрын
I think that Mary and Mr Collins were similar enough to be a good match on paper. Both religious, proper and boring. But I don't think Mary would've trived at Hunsford, with all the duties of a wife of a religious leader, household economy and "managing" Lady Catherine. She never struck me as a pragmatic or involved. During the fall-out of Lydia's elopment, did she step in to aid Jane? No, she still studied so much that Jane didn't want to bother her during breaks. Down to earth Charlotte was a much better much counterbalance for Mr Collins' fanciful streak. She took on the mental labour of that relationship as well as household and parishioners, so Mr Collins can focus on his sermons, his reading and being a court jester at Rosings Park. An unfair load on Charlotte by any standards, but a great match for Mr Collins.
@dieterdelange9488
Жыл бұрын
It was deeply hinted at in the 1995 series and 2005 movie that Mary clearly fancied Mr Collins. If Charlotte hadn't come to the house by chance that day, then he probably would have proposed to Mary, as she was the next sister after Lizzy. Mind you, Lydia would have been deeply annoyed if her "plain" sister got married before her. XD
@JennyferPepin
Жыл бұрын
I have to partially disagree with you about Charlotte. After Lizzie rejected Mr.Collins, Charlotte hung around him a lot more/ invited his attention/ listened to him. She clearly let him know that she was available and agreeable to him, if he were to propose (just like what she encouraged Jane to do with Mr.Bingley). I don't think Mr.Collins ever really thought of Mary Bennet, as he didn't have time to do so. Jane was made unavailable, Elizabeth had all his attention for most of his stay, so much so that she suspected he wanted to propose to her before it even happened, and then once she refused him, Charlotte influenced him to consider her as his potential wife. I don't even think Mary was ever an option in Mr.Collins' mind.
@kansmill
Жыл бұрын
I’m sure their father would have had amusement in Lydia’s disgruntlement.
@dieterdelange9488
Жыл бұрын
@@JennyferPepin Good point. Being the middle child, poor Mary was probably ignored a lot.
@dieterdelange9488
Жыл бұрын
@@kansmill Maybe, behind the scenes, he found the elopement amusing as well. XD
@andreanewell628
Жыл бұрын
We know from Charlotte’s earlier conversation with Elizabeth on the subject of marriage that Charlotte understood the necessity of pretending to feel more than one did for a prospective partner. And she also would have noted Collins’ designs on Elizabeth and known full well that his suit would not be received well by her friend. She had already started making herself subtly agreeable to Collins before it even occurred to Mary that such a thing could be allowed. Mary’s lack of social awareness was a severe handicap in her romantic hopes.
@katinphilly1312
Жыл бұрын
Looking forward to this! Your analyses are always so insightful, you’ve been missed.
@michellerhodes9910
Жыл бұрын
For a minor character, Mary is well formed. We know she thinks she isn't as pretty as her sisters which has stimulated her desire for education, and unfortunately for performance as her talent does not reflect her hard work. We know that Lydia never listens to her. She has this desire I feel for affirmation and credit and Mr. Collins is weirdly similar to her on some points. They both express the pompous morality of the day that Mr. Bennett described with Mary as 'reading texts'. He too is a performer both in the pulpit and socially. He always needs to be noticed be it name dropping or otherwise. They both have a lack of awareness. Note his attitude to Lizzie Bennett's advice when he decided to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy. So Mary's tender hope that she would guide him is misguided and I am so pleased their engagement never happened.
@mouseketeery
Жыл бұрын
Although Mary's absence wouldn't have changed the plot, she does have a tiny tangential affect - her public performance at the dance, insisting on showing off what she thought of as her accomplishment, was the means for others of the Bennet family to act in a way that Darcy thought inappropriate, low class. He refers to it in 'The Letter'. It was one of the reasons that he advised Bingley to forget Jane, and something that Lizzie had dismissed and forgotten. On reading the letter, Lizzie realised her whole family acted such that they couldn't have made a better job of scuppering Jane's chances if it had been deliberately planned. Btw, great to see you back!
@ruthfeiertag
Жыл бұрын
So lovely to hear you again! When Elizabeth, after reading Darcy’s letter of explanation, is considering the justice of some of Darcy’s observations on her family and she admits to herself that even her beloved father is not without flaws, I think of Mary and how Mr. Bennett could have steered her mind and opened her heart. She seems genuinely pitiable to me; she may not have Elizabeth’s sparkling wit, but Mary does have an intellect that wishes to be employed. Mary always seemed redeemable.I hope she packed up, left home, got swept off to an archaeological dig, learned to drink and to swear (lightly), took up wearing pants, had a bunch of lovers, and died at an advanced age, very well pleased with her life. Might you, Dr. Cox, sometime give us a talk on why Jane and Elizabeth turned out so differently than the other girls? It seems that Elizabeth benefitted from her father’s attention, but even then she has a kinder heart than time with her sardonic father is likely to have inculcated. Is it that Jane and Lizzie were the first two, that the prospect of a boy still seemed on the horizon when they were born and so their births were not as disappointing as that of three more non-males? Might Mrs. Bennett have been less flighty then? Is there any evidence in the text for my conjectures?
@chrisd725
Жыл бұрын
My theory is that they had different nurses (read foster-mother) who brought them up differently.
@ruthfeiertag
Жыл бұрын
@@chrisd725 That's a pretty good theory!
@gowrinandana8999
Жыл бұрын
The influence of the Gardeners might be a factor.
@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991
Жыл бұрын
@@gowrinandana8999 I agree with your point. Jane and Elizabeth are said to have often been staying in town with the Gardiner's; if that began at a young age, say 9 or 10, the Gardiner's positive influence would certainly have helped shape Jane's & Elizabeth's characters. But did the 3 younger girls receive this benefit? It seems not, but we don't know. Were they ever asked? Were they interested in going? Did the births of the Gardiner's children affect these decisions? We can only speculate.
@ruthfeiertag
Жыл бұрын
@@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991 Indeed, but your speculations are very astute.
@marijaokic2427
Жыл бұрын
I'm so happy the new lecture is on the way. Looking forward to it. 😊 Regards
@Wanda711
Жыл бұрын
It's funny that Mrs. Bennet thinks that Mary "might have been prevailed on to accept" Mr. Collins. It shows that despite her determination to get him as an son-in-law, even she knows that Mr. Collins is a bit of a hard sell.
@nocomment2468
Жыл бұрын
Poor Mary. I think this little excerpt reveals something of her earnest desire for marriage and companionship. She is a romantic, just like the rest of the Bennetts! She is also the loneliest member of that family-and tries to puff herself up to compensate for the lack of love and respect. She’s a good foil to Charlotte, who likewise is not pretty, but has the confidence and awareness (and familial support) to better her situation.
@Mare467
2 ай бұрын
That‘s exactly what I feel about Mary. Adding to the parallel between Charlotte and Mary, Mary is about 10 years younger (roundabout 18?!). This could also have been an important point for Mr Collins.
@jrpipik
Жыл бұрын
Even before the explicit "invasion" of Mary's mind, her behavior has already given the reader the sense that Mary may be interested in Mr Collins. She is the only one of the Bennett sisters who willingly listens to him read and philosophize. (He doesn't seem to take the hint.) So Austen's peek behind the curtains of Mary's thoughts confirms what we have already come to suspect.
@kerriemckinstry-jett8625
Жыл бұрын
Mary fancied him, but it's a good thing she didn't marry him; it would've been a disaster for her. If she were constantly in his company & around Lady Catherine de Bourgh, she would've become even more prideful. Also, she wouldn't have had Charlotte's knack for managing mMr. Collins & instead of making him into a better companion for herself, she would've been frustrated & miserable. Instead, Charlotte saw him exactly for what he was & learned how to manage him to make the best life for both of them. After Lydia's elopement, doesn't it say that Kitty & Mary both show improvement? Clearly they both needed to learn some lessons, too, so maybe they'd have made better choices after that point. Let's face it, Mr. Collins is kind of a dud in terms of Jane Austen's eligible bachelors. Hilariously, so, of course.
@JennyferPepin
Жыл бұрын
Charlotte is smart. I always liked her because she is able to read people very well. She's never been really wrong in the novel, and even predicted a few things regarding relationships.The fact she can understand Mr.Collins' character so well and know what to expect from him only makes it easier to influence him in the best way possible. They both married for convenience, they both know it, and they respect each other's space and time. I do agree that Mary would've become more prideful with the presence of Lady Catherine. Honestly, I feel like Mr.Collins and Mary's home would've been dry and unwelcoming. They are both stiff and serious. While Charlotte adds a gentleness and practicality to the match. I'm sure eventually, they'll gain some real affection for each other, should it be as friends.
@kerriemckinstry-jett8625
Жыл бұрын
@@JennyferPepin Lady Catherine is such a repulsive character & Mr. Collins's obsequiousness around is nauseating. 🤢 I would hate to think what Mary would've been like being married to him.
@kaldurrr
Жыл бұрын
She has returned! 🎉
@mollyfarrell.
Жыл бұрын
Its so funny, i was just thinking about this channel today. Im really exciting for this new episode.
@pamelamorgan7354
Жыл бұрын
I’m so excited to see another video from you. This is a wonderful topic to cover, too! ☺️
@sonjadewitt1880
Жыл бұрын
To me, this is a very sad paragraph. Mary may be a satirical stereotype, but she is also, as most of Austen's minor characters, a real sentient person. She may be vain and somewhat ridiculous, but that is primarily because she has no place in the family. She is loved neither by her father, as Jane and Lizzie are, nor doted on by her mother, as Kitty and Lydia are. She is not beautiful like Jane, spirited like Lizzie or flirtatious and frivolous like the other two. If Jane and Lizzie have little chance of making a good marriage, despite their beauty and wit, she has NONE. So she allows herself the cold comfort of dreaming of the companionship of an unattractive man whom she can mold, because she knows he is the best she can aspire to. And then even that forlorn hope is dashed. It's heartbreaking if you put yourself in Mary's shoes. She's doomed to live the rest of her life as an unwanted parasite, first with her parents and then with one of her sisters. Without love or sympathy or anyone who understands or cares about her interior world.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
I understand that you feel an admirable sympathy for Mary--a testament to Austen's writing skill--but the one thing she actually is not is a real, sentient person. Actually, Jane Austen, according to her family, said Mary married her Uncle Philips' law clerk. Not a fabulous match, but a good one. By the time she married she had four sisters married, two of whom to very wealthy and high-status men, and probably this enhanced her marriageability. So it is likely she had a reasonably good life.
@oekmama
Жыл бұрын
This analysis is absolutely lovely. Mary is a character often seen as a character foil or comic relief. It’s absolutely masterful how Austen captures her pride and prejudice in so few sentences.
@TheNicolevertone
Жыл бұрын
It is wonderful to see you back! Thank you for posting. I always love watching your videos. Mary always struck me as a character who never feels adequate in the ways society tells her really matter: she isn't beautiful, she isn't vivacious or sparkling, she isn't fashionable, and she doesn't stand out. She has no support or friendships, not even in her own house. It's a very lonely life, and she is very young. Without any direction, she tries to stand out through modesty, talent, hard work, and intellect. In a lot of ways, she's an early predecessor of the "not like other girls" trope. She is competing with her sisters on her own terms, but within the bounds of society. I think it's important that she is trying to set herself up as more moral and more intelligent. She can't get her mother's love, not being a beauty, but she can compete for her father with Lizzy. Austen has a keen eye for the actions of neglected children. Mary's brittle pride and hubristic identity are spot on. Addition: When I first read P&P, I got the impression that Mary was following all of the dictats of Fordyce and waiting for Mr. Collins to take notice of her as a proper candidate for his interest. Had he been more intelligent and less hypocritical, he might have. But it is probably lucky for the both of them that he didn't. It really would take someone like Charlotte Collins to see him as he is and act accordingly.
@irishlady5051
Жыл бұрын
I love your analysis!
@strll3048
Жыл бұрын
Superb insights... thank you so much for sharing.
@keithprice475
7 ай бұрын
I really feel for Mary in the piano scene where Mr Bennet tells her that she has delighted them enough! She is easily smart enough to know what he really means and of course the incident has an important influence on Mr Darcy's not very stellar opinion of the family.
@TheNicolevertone
7 ай бұрын
@keithprice475 It is sad. Mary really seems to crave approval in spite of claiming modesty--she is human--and she is slighted and neglected by everyone the harder she tries to "improve".
@girlfan
Жыл бұрын
The gasp i let out when i saw the notification for this premiere
@voluntaryismistheanswer
Жыл бұрын
I hit the bell, and I never hit the bell 😄
@thebatmary5954
Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, I don’t think he would’ve moved on to proposing to Mary after Lizzie without Charlotte stepping in, as I’m seeing some others saying. I think he would’ve skipped Mary and gone to Kitty because he’s a shallow idiot who, in the absence of flattery, only cares about beauty when selecting first Jane and then Lizzie. The novel says that his opinions on the rights of seniority were confirmed when he saw Jane was the most beautiful, and then when he found out that she wasn’t available he went to Lizzie, “next to Jane in both birth and beauty” (might not be exact quote; I don’t have the book in front of me.) Mary is supposedly “plain,” and he obviously doesn’t care about/notice personality, otherwise he would’ve picked Mary first. The big exception to this is that Charlotte went out of her way to flatter him into liking her despite her lack of beauty, and Mary doesn’t seem to have that skill set.
@FionaEm
Жыл бұрын
I've always thought Mary exists as a mirror of Collins: respectable and pious but vain and silly. The fact that Collins ends up with Lizzie's eminently sensible bestie instead is a terrific plot twist 😊
@christineherrmann205
Жыл бұрын
I actually like to think Austen, had she lived today, certainly, would have written a series where more of the characters would have gotten a book. Mary's isn't the only story without a conclusion.
@ninaklein8154
Жыл бұрын
The Other Bennet Sister, a recent novel, did a nice portrayal of Mary. Made her less conceited and holier than thou.
@NYCHeartandSoul
Жыл бұрын
Kitty, according to Jane Austin‘s nephew who wrote a biography of his aunt, “Kitty Bennet was satisfactorily married to a clergyman near Pemberley,” Jane Austen used to discuss her characters with her relatives and so it was well known in the family as to what the future held for them. This was true for the books that had already been published. And as pride and prejudice is my absolute favourite it’s lovely to know what Austen had in mind.
@--enyo--
Жыл бұрын
I agree. Mary Bennett was a character I felt a little sorry for. She definitely has her flaws, but she tries really hard to overcome her ‘disadvantages’ in terms of looks and wit/personality with learning. I guess I kind of feel I can empathise with trying really hard at things and the result being too ‘pedantic’ and not really good at it, while other people seem naturally gifted. 😅
@BC25citizen
Жыл бұрын
I always imagine Lydia creating fashionable hats and selling them to support her family.
@irenepeter-lyons350
Жыл бұрын
@@ninaklein8154 I loved that book. It delves into Mary's character and you end up routing for her by the end of part one. I loved the way the two books were intertwined ( part 1)
@daffodilunderhill7066
Жыл бұрын
I often think, if only the Bennets had had a family meeting and discussed Mr. Collins willingness to marry one of the girls! It would have been obvious that Mary was the only daughter willing to give him a chance.
@shelbybuttimer1397
Жыл бұрын
I agree. Mrs. Bennett was pretty clueless about her daughters, assuming Lizzy would of course accept him, but if Mr. Bennett had pushed her and pushed Mr. Collins towards Mary, things would have ended differently. I always saw this as more of an example of Mr. Bennett’s apathy than anything else. Mr. Collins, with all his flaws, would have helped the family tremendously by marrying a Bennett daughter. Mr. Bennett just…didn’t seem to care.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
I don't think that would have been viewed as seemly, and it would have been far too democratic-looking for Mrs. Bennet's taste. I suspect that if Mr. Bennet had got wind of it, he would have put his foot down. Mr. Collins' pomposity and lack of sense amused him, but not to the point that he would have liked to have him for a son-in-law. If Charlotte had not been so quick off the mark, though, I suppose he would have agreed to a Mary/Mr. Collins match as being probably the best she would attract.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
Mr. Bennet did care; he really did not want Mr. Collins as a son-in-law. Whether he was acting in the best interests of his daughters is another question.
@FionaEm
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, but Mary wasn't good looking enough to satisfy his vanity. He wanted Jane first bc she was the prettiest, and only chased Lizzie when he couldn't get Jane. Mary would've been way down his list bc he was silly enough to think he was attractive to better looking women. Sad but true 😅
@daffodilunderhill7066
Жыл бұрын
@@FionaEm Charlotte was not beautiful, either. She appealed to his vanity and won him over.
@ip6229
Жыл бұрын
I was having a gloomy day and this really brightened it! So happy to see you giving a lecture on this channel again 💫
@kikicliff2519
Жыл бұрын
First of all - welcome back! I have missed your videos and look forward to listening to the one on JA's use of wit. This was a fascinating read of Mary Bennett. Other than the two lead sisters, she is by far the most interesting (arguable more interesting in fact than Jane). There is some real complexity there - her over-inflated view of her musical abilities, for example. But I am glad she didn't land Mr Collins. His patron Lady Catherine would not have liked her one bit - the terrible singing and her insistence on doing it at every available opportunity would have seen to that, along with her lack of humility. And of course Mr Collins would never have defended his wife against his "noble patroness" so a source of endless strife in that scenario. Although one would have liked to see Charlotte marry for love, she was a far better match for him given that she new exactly what she was getting and was happy with that.
@lisamckay5058
Жыл бұрын
I do believe Mary would have liked to become Mrs. Collins. Charlotte Lucas and her pragmatism made a far better match for Mr. Collins-- had he and Mary married, they would have fed off of each other's foibles. Charlotte brought a better balance to Mr. Collins.
@kattkatt744
Жыл бұрын
Mr. Collins was incredibly lucky in the fact that Charlotte Lucas was very pragmatic and was willing to have him. He would have never realise it of course, but I'm sure she made his life much more like he imagined it to be than it actually was before she came along.
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
Charlotte ended up unhappy though. Her match was a warning about marrying only for practicalities- in contrast to Lydia who married only for lust, which was also a warning. I get she was running out of options though
@lisamckay5058
Жыл бұрын
@MsJubjubbird do you think Charlotte was *that* unhappy, though? I think she had low expectations for personal joy, but felt some satisfaction in having her own home.
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
@@lisamckay5058 Yes I think she was unhappy. She refers to things like bearing solitude, because being unhappy alone is better than being with her husband. I know she had low expectations for marital bliss but she didn't consider what it would be like living in that situation day in and day out. Jane was very against marrying purely for financial reasons and this was a warning shot; although we have some sympathy for Charlotte's motivation in her choice.
@lisamckay5058
Жыл бұрын
@MsJubjubbird I certainly see your point. I see Charlotte as being more contented because of her pleasure of having her own home. When Austen writes, "When Mr. Collins could be forgotten, there was really an air of great comfort throughout, and by Charlotte's evident enjoyment of it," I feel she's telling the reader that the achievement of marrying, and marrying decently, is a greater aspect of happiness than holding out for love. Btw, I appreciate your response! It's so much fun to have conversations like this.
@helenannedawson3694
Жыл бұрын
I really like your observation about Mary's hopes and plans for marrying Mr Collins. There's a sense in some novels and in some narrative styles that other characters stand still until they're observed by the narrater. While the short, but well constucted little section about Mary, really shows that other characters in Austen's novels are thinking and planning and feeling apart from the main character
@vorkosigrrl6047
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this illuminating video. Wonderful insights into Mary’s pride! It does seem as though someone who is forever moralizing would have to believe themselves to be superior in understanding. She would have found a “project” in Mr. Collins that would suit her. I wonder how much he would have liked her attempts at instructing him? Somehow I think he’d find her just as irritating as the rest of her family does. I don’t think Mary possesses Charlotte’s subtlety.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
Given Mr Collins' stated high opinion of himself, one does wonder! 😆 Despite (or rather because of) their similar characters I think they would probably have brought out the worst in each other. But I can't help feeling the theoretical resulting relationship would've been one the perpetually snarky JA would have had a really good time skewering on the page! 😏
@martinturner2309
Жыл бұрын
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 your answer made me laugh out loud , I think you are spot on. I felt a touch of Mr . and Mrs. Pugh in Under Milk Wood where in a silence in a terse exchange Dylan Thomas says " An Icicle formed in the air". Thankyou for making a grumpy old man laugh.
@justjukka
Жыл бұрын
I'm excited for this one!
@ip6229
Жыл бұрын
I read that Hilary Mantel started on a novel told from Mary Bennet’s point of view. Sadly, the author has died before finishing it. I’d have loved to read it.
@electraruby4078
Жыл бұрын
There’s Jennifer Paynter’s 2014 The Forgotten Sister: Mary Bennet’s Pride and Prejudice, which narrates the events of Austen’s novel from Mary’s point of view. There’s also Pamela Mingle’s The Pursuit of Mary Bennet: A Pride and Prejudice Novel, which offers Mary an alternate romantic subplot. And A Match For Mary Bennet, which does the same.
@bonniehagan9644
Жыл бұрын
So excited to see this pop up today in my feed. Can't wait to view it. Thank you, Dr. Cox.
@lilith3953
Жыл бұрын
Yes! I've always thought this was a rather sad little subplot, the way those two didn't get together even though they're perfect for each other, and she obviously liked him, which no one else did. Poor Mary. She's going to end up a spinster who lives permanently with one of her sisters. And poor Charlotte Lucas too of course married to that insufferable man.
@DrOctaviaCox
Жыл бұрын
According to James Edward Austen-Leigh, Jane Austen's nephew, in his _Memoir of Jane Austen_ (1869), Mary Bennet settled for marrying a local attorney's clerk: "She [JA] would, if asked, tell us many little particulars about the subsequent career of some of her people. In this traditionary way we learned that ... Mary obtained nothing higher than one of her uncle Philip’s clerks [Mr Philips is Meryton's attorney], and was content to be considered a star in the society of Meryton".
@katinphilly1312
Жыл бұрын
The 1995 mini series basically said what we all know- Mr Collins is still a man, silly as he is. So he started with the prettiest daughter and worked his way through. Despite all his fancy words, he always wanted the pretty girl.
@christineherrmann205
Жыл бұрын
There's a sequel to P&P where Mary gets to shine. I believe it's called _Pemberly._
@kikidevine694
Жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCoxthe Philips didn't have children, though, so the clerk COULD have taken on the business and Mary the money so it's not that bad for her
@jrpipik
Жыл бұрын
@@katinphilly1312 Just what I think. Though he attributes his interest in marrying to his patron, his thoughts are a bit more carnal.
@MsMelyjean
Жыл бұрын
When I read this book, I was convinced by the text that Mary fancied Collins. I was sorry for Mary that she was not even considered as an option.
@athag1
Жыл бұрын
As Jane Eyre is written from the first person point of view, it is to be expected that the other characters would appear only as they are perceived by the narrator. On the other hand, the shifting point of view in Jane Austen’s novels allows us to take a peek at the inner lives of minor characters.
@carrielovesfanta
11 ай бұрын
That was my first thought too.
@OuiOui-hu1ko
Жыл бұрын
I always thought the line about all hopes being dashed applied to Mrs. Bennet as well as Mary.
@mlove.1376
Жыл бұрын
I hope you are doing well with your other endeavors, as you have been missed. Thank you for this topic. I dont think that Mary and Mr. Collins would have faired too well. They were too much alike with their unhealthy egos. And just by Mary thinking how she could change him is a red flag for me. Whereas, Charlotte knew how he was and accepted him. However, its hard to know how that all turned out either. Sometimes with an example of how to be happy, smarter and less arrogant, he might just change his behavior. No telling. Maybe, you could look into some of the scenarios of the characters lives after the book that Jane Austin herself talked about in how they faired. That would be fun. Thank you for your explanation regarding the writing itself to help us understand the thoughts and who they actually came from. You've helped me understand this book so much more.because in this day and age, it's a bit much to grasp it all with Jane's genius writing. ❤🥰❤
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
He wasn't going to change with Lady Catherine as an example. II think Mary would have complied with Fordyce's advice, being as prudent as she was, and obeyed her husband. She would have reveled in being given the role of clergyman's wife (think a regency era version of Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons)
@foodasmr2101
Жыл бұрын
I can't wait!
@annika5893
Жыл бұрын
When you emphasized "solidity of reflections" I was reminded of my nearest superior at work. She has a specific favourite phrase she uses as a compliment of other people. I think this one is Mary's favourite compliment of anyone, including herself.
@kahkah1986
Жыл бұрын
plus of course, it is completely wrong, as reflections are never solid, that is the whole point of them!
@einahsirro1488
Жыл бұрын
Mary had a soft spot for Mr. Collins before she even met him. When his first pompous letter arrived, while the others regarded it with mingle amusement and suspicion, she was willing to find the positive. “In point of composition,” said Mary, “his letter does not seem defective. The idea of the olive branch perhaps is not wholly new, yet I think it is well expressed.” They all knew he would inherit. On paper, Mr. Collins was a CATCH. I think Mary had already thought how pleasant it might be to be mistress of Longbourne.
@kolli7150
Жыл бұрын
I think long term, it's been way better for Mary not do have married Mr. Collins. Charlotte is way more mature and did make rational decisions for her future while Mary's strongest motive of marrying Mr Collins would be to outshine her sisters for once in her life.
@nmd1682
Жыл бұрын
I cannot agree with your opinion on Mary’s motivation. Lydia indeed took pride in getting married before her older sisters. But I do not remember any hints in the book where marriage was considered by any of them, other than Lydia, as a matter of vanity. Maybe, I simply forgot?
@kolli7150
Жыл бұрын
@@nmd1682 Mary tries constantly to get attention by learning difficult piano pieces or reciting from heavy books in order have a moment of shining next to her more attractive and perhaps more witty and lively sisters. I see a possible marriage as a way to finally get her parent's attention and appreciation. But maybe I am reading too much into this. She seems to fancy Mr. Collins but I don't think she would have been made for his lifestyle. So I am happy that Austen protected Mary from a marriage and let a mature women like Charlotte make a rational decision for her future and also punish Mrs. Bennett a bit for her unempathetic behaviour towards both her kids and her neighbours.
@GradKat
Жыл бұрын
@@kolli7150. Mrs Bennet really cares about her daughters. She’s practical and knows it is essential for them to marry. She’s not helped by her husband, who ridicules her, encourages their children to laugh at her, and whose only contribution to family life is to turn up for meals. Even when Lydia elopes with Wickham, he sits back and lets her uncle sort it out (and, of course, Darcy).
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
I don't think it would be to outshine her sisters. ore that, she knows she needs to get married, she's biologically mature and therefore capable of being attracted to someone and her is someone who is as self-deluded and claims to be as pious as she is. Him being a clergyman probably helps too. She would not have liked the grandiosity of Rosings but would have reveled in being a clergyman's wife and the fact that she would still be a star with one very plain daughter with no "talent" as Elizabeth calls it in the neighbourhood would flatter her vanity. The analysis that she is trying to outshine her sisters is an oversimplified one applied from a very modern psychology cliches that doesn't really work with regency family dynamics. She is the only sister without a pair so has no shadow or anyone to be shadowed by. The fact is she is just really self deluded how great she is and wants the world to know it- and that message has been reinforced because she has never left a small town and none of her sisters were made to study enough to be good at anything in particular.
@qlauraq912
Жыл бұрын
I think she would have been disappointed in Mr Collins with time. He’s shallow and insincere whereas she is sober and earnest. She perhaps could have wanted to attract him, but if she had succeeded she would have been disgusted after some time. His parishioners on the other hand would have gained a sincere priest’s wife.
@dorysrailenesaxlehner9146
Жыл бұрын
In every version of P&P (including BBC 1980) Mary is shown to be partial to Mr Collins. Mr Collins is going for beauty, and never notices Mary. In the 1995 version, Jane drives Mr Collins to Mary to discuss Fordyce's sermons... to no avail. He was very lucky to end up with Charlotte Lucas.
@angelacarrier1294
3 ай бұрын
Totally agree. Mr. Collins and Mrs. Bennett were oblivious.
@jennysedgley8284
Жыл бұрын
Good to have you back :) I have always loved the way Mary Bennett's pretensions to intellect are contrasted with Lizzy & Darcy's natural cleverness. They don't shout about their intellectual prowess either.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
I do think Lizzie is a little vain of her cleverness.
@akapam57
Жыл бұрын
Actually they do. Actually I never thought Elizabeth was all that clever.
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
@@akapam57 Both have what one would call wit. They see and think abstractly and beyond the literal- hence why their dialogue is so good. While Mr Collins may gush over Rosings, Lizzie sees it for what it is- ostentatious and Darcy sees his aunt's pretend airs and graces as vulgar snobbery. Even her father says Lizzie has more wit than most women- women were generally considered to think emotionally while men where meant to think more analytically. They are just governed by their emotions and immediate assumptions until later on and that crowds and that obscures their thinking- hence Pride and Prejudice. Jane was always an advocate for more rational rather than emotional thinking, while not completely rejecting the heart- see Sense and Sensibility.
@kerrytakashi12
Жыл бұрын
Being clever and being intelligent are two different things. None of the Bennett sisters are intellectual stars.
@HRJohn1944
Жыл бұрын
First of all - great to have you back! Can we look forward to further videos analysing characters? A slight digression: there is a character in "Jane Eyre" whose function in that novel might have been analogous to Mary Bennet's in P&P - Helen Burns. Unfortunately, she is bumped off far too quickly - had she survived and Helen's and the heroine's friendship developed, just possibly the former would have learned to stand up for herself a little more and (more importantly) the latter might have learned to be a little more self-critical and so be less insufferable. But Mary: the word "companion" is relevant here. Yes, yes, I get that she is being cautious, but really, with the possible exception of Edmund Bertram and Mary Crawford, could we imagine any two characters in JA's works for whom marriage would not have been a greater unforeseen (though foreseeable to the reader) disaster than Mary Bennet and Mr Collins? (And with Edmund and Mary C. I think each would have realised that the mistake was their own.) Both Mr Collins and Mary are rather dim and both think a great deal too much of themselves; Mary is a better pianist (technically) than Lizzy, but she "has neither genius nor taste", her playing is "pedantic" and "mannered"*, and thus is less pleasing than Lizzy's (who stays within her own competence). Mary's voice is "weak" (much too weak for Netherfield Hall) but she assumes that the polite applause that she receives is a demand for an encore (NB I don't think that "weak" is a synonym for "out of tune to the point where she is tone deaf"). She repeats tired old nostrums and assumes that they are original thoughts. Mr Bennet's negligence (particularly in the educational sphere) as a parent is at least as malign toward Mary as it is toward Lydia, though in a very different ways. I feel rather sorry for Mary. *After 60 years of concert-, recital-, and opera-going, I think that I know what JA meant!
@magdn1
Жыл бұрын
Jane Eyre is a mystery novel. We are not getting the rich inner lives of the passengers of Poirot's Orient Express for the same reason we aren't getting Mrs Fairfax's. Not because they don't have any but because their rich inner lives spoil the plot twist. Genre and its necessary limitations is a weird thing to criticize JE for.
@HRJohn1944
Жыл бұрын
@@magdn1 Criticising "Jane Eyre"? You underestimate my arrogance - I was suggesting a way in which Charlotte Bronte could have improved her novel and made the eponymous heroine more likable!!!
@Izabela-ek5nh
Жыл бұрын
@@HRJohn1944 hey, I love and like Jane Eyre... why do you think she is unlikeable....?
@londongael414
Жыл бұрын
Enjoyed this comment very much. We all feel a little sorry for Mary Bennet, because she is so overlooked by all her family, including by Jane and Elizabeth. But there's no denying she's not really very likeable - too conceited and sententious, as you say. And while we might like to think she could improve, that's not Jane Austen's way. Even Emma Woodhouse doesn't really "improve", so much as open her eyes. She's still going to be bossy and meddling, just not quite so disastrously.
@alexandriacollins7119
Жыл бұрын
Mary Bennet; Likes To Brag How Humble She Is.
@nyckolaus
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Dr. Cox. I am so grateful for your inspiring discussions.
@dorothywillis1
Жыл бұрын
For the clerk, marrying Mary would be the equivalent of marrying the boss's daughter. He would take over the business and she would inherit the Phillips' money. Also, the connections to rich men with, especially in Darcy's case, the possibility of legal work to be done, would make Mary much more desirable a match than when she was just one of the Bennet's five daughters!
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
It's really interesting to see that JA's characters lived on in her own head too, and not just those of her readers! An amusing contrast to some other authors (cf Conan Doyle) who just wanted to kill off their characters by the end, regardless of how well-received they'd been by the public...
@dorothywillis1
Жыл бұрын
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Comparing Austen and Doyle is not really apples-to-apples. Doyle was a competent writer, but the Holmes stories are all that's read now out of a large body of work. Austen is only now being recognized as one who influenced the development of the novel even more than Defoe, Richardson, and Fielding, who were the ones traditionally taught as the fathers of the novel. Austen might be called the mother of the novel, as she took the rough and flawed form they began and shaped it into the grown-up novel it has been since her time.
@theripper1705
Жыл бұрын
Collins marrying Charlotte instead of Mary has bothered me since the first time I read this novel. I know the reasons: Charlotte needed a husband, Mary didn't act fast enough as Charlotte did, Collins was smarting from Elizabeth's rejection, etc. The fact that this couple didn't marry is the disappointment of the book for me, but it actually seems more realistic because of this since people frequently marry the wrong person in real life.
@kahkah1986
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely, the way that you need more than just compatibility, you need manipulation... noticeably both Jane and Lizzie have people to do the manipulation for them, but Charlotte is old enough to do her own.
@JennyferPepin
Жыл бұрын
I think Austen wanted to highlight the different types of marriages and what the characters were set to aim for from the beginning. Jane/Bingley and Darcy/Lizzie for love and complicity, Charlotte/Collins for convenience and peace of mind, and Lydia/Wickham for frivolity and superficiality. I think it makes sense that Charlotte was the one who got to marry Mr.Collins as she was the one who put the effort in, just like she had encouraged Jane to do with Mr.Bingley, to make her interest in him clear. “There are few of us who are secure enough to be within love without proper encouragement - Charlotte Lucas” If you think about it, this quote applies to Mary Bennett too, as she is the least attractive one in her family. A husband won't just fall on her lap. And this is where Charlotte was a step ahead of Mary, she took matter into her own hands while Mary daydreamed about Collins or expected him to come to her after getting rejected by Lizzie.
@nonyabidness5708
Жыл бұрын
If you read The Other Bennet Sister you might feel happier that Mary did not end up as the silly Mr. Collin's 2nd choice.
@londongael414
Жыл бұрын
The standout case of someone marrying the wrong person is the marriage of the Bennet parents, whence everything else flows. It's a moot question which of them made the bigger mistake. Mr Bennet reacts by deriving a rather laboured amusement from such interactions as he is forced to have with his family. Mrs Bennet, with whom I have more sympathy, more or less ignores his jibes and gets on with trying her limited best to get her daughters married. Sadly, her efforts are a hindrance, rather than a help, but at least she tries.
@Jitka-tx4dn
Жыл бұрын
So glad to see you back with another video! I would be curious to hear you analyse why Elizabeth is so reluctant to go along with her mother's schemes to give Mr. Bingley a chance to propose to Jane when he returns to Netherfield at the end of the novel.
@anitanalley2417
Жыл бұрын
You're back! A wonderful as a new Audley House episode!😊 Seriously, we've missed you.❤
@marianuru2525
Жыл бұрын
This is great news!! I really love these lectures and learn a great deal from them. Thanks!!
@junestone1148
Жыл бұрын
I thought Bennett was spelt with 2 t's
@junipercats2472
Жыл бұрын
Glad to see you back! There is a video by Ellie Dashwood entitled "What is Mary Bennet's Purpose in Life?" Where she discusses why she believes Mary is essential, I'd be interested to know if you agree. I've always noticed the way Mary is treated by her family, particularly her parents. While Mr. Bennet respects Jane and Lizzie's intelligence he scoffs at Mary's attempt to be intelligent and doesn't seem to be interested in guiding her. Mrs. Bennet also puts Mary down for reading too much. Lizzie told Lady Catherine that those who wanted to learn were encouraged but I don't get that impression, at least not where Mary is concerned, but maybe I'm missing something.
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
Now they are out in society, I think Mary is scoffed at for reading too much because her mother is worried no man will want to marry her- Mrs Bennett was picked for her looks not her brains and comes from the middle class. While her father recognises that booksmarts are not what makes intelligence. He already has his wife bossing him around and he much prefers Lizzie and Jane's wit. Mary looks like she's trying to be smart and thinks she's smart but can't see beyond black and white. Elizabeth reads a lot but she reads more widely and so she is an interesting person.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
Thanks @junipercats for flagging that vid - was on my mind too! 😊 I feel like the reason Mr Bennet doesn't encourage Mary's intelligence is her lack of a sense of humour? He only seems to like Lizzy's sharp wit because it amuses him, really. Mary's pomposity & lack of self-awareness annoys him, and so he mocks her, rather than encouraging her to turn her moralizing awareness inwards. I don't think even Austen herself seems to argue for Mr Bennet being a good parent, alas! 😒
@junipercats2472
Жыл бұрын
I agree with both of you, Mr. Bennet prefers Lizzie for her sharp wit and Jane for her good sense both of which are enhanced by natural intelligence. Mary is intelligent but lacks both sense and wit. She may have read more than her elder sisters and read more books that were instructive and it may be that she has learned more but without good sense she misapplies what she has learned and without real wit takes it too seriously. Add to that her vanity at having out-read her sisters and thinking she understands better than they do, and it's no wonder Mr. Bennet thinks her a very silly person.
@Anna-yy9so
Жыл бұрын
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Yeah, Mr. Bennet is usually portrayed as the nicer parent in screen adaptations, but he's really not a good father. He plays favourites, he's judgemental, and he consistently puts his own comfort over ensuring that his daughters have a good future.
@ritan2
Жыл бұрын
@@junipercats2472 I think you make a good point. Mary's reading and accomplishments are performative. She has a lot of information, but not the natural intelligence, understanding, or sense to put it together. It is as if she were copying her older sisters and her father, but is incapable of putting assembling it into a reasonable whole. She seems puzzled/oblivious by her father's and sisters' response to her trying to be just like them. I suspect that Mr. Bennet was a very involved parent to Jane and Lizzie, but quit by the time it came to Mary's education (which would about the time he realized that there was not going to be a son). It must have been very sad for Mary to watch her father so engaged with her older sisters, but not her.
@dees3179
Жыл бұрын
There is so little of the book devoted to Mary, but I always felt Austen had reached forward in time and seen me because Mary is so like how I expect I would react in her position. I would probably have gone over the top with how I was supposed to behave, made myself thoroughly unlike able and got nowhere as a result. Always have my head stuck in a book or piano as a safe place and not be able to properly connect to anyone around me. Much as I’m frustrated with modern life and feel like a bit of a failure, at least I can earn a living these days. Poor old Mary doesn’t have that option.
@Green4CloveR
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact; Marsha Hunt who played Mary Bennet in the 1940 movie version (staring Greer Garson and Lawrence Olivier) died only last year at the age of 104. It makes me think that since Pride and Prejudice was published in 1813, about a little more that 200 years ago, it is like it was only really 2 lifetimes ago.
@Cat_Woods
Жыл бұрын
I thought the Mary character helped to illustrate something about the morality of the time that Austen was interested in illustrating. Mary was, on the surface, everything that the morality of the day pushed forward as virtuous, and yet she was prideful about that and was lacking in the kind of self-awareness that would allow her to be more interesting or vital like her sisters. She was essential to helping Austen's readers notice the vitality and likability that even the reckless younger sisters had. By contrast, Fanny Price in Mansfield Park fit all of the popular notions of virtue, was not prideful, was pretty boring/insipid, and yet retained a kind of likability by digging in her heels at the idea of obeying the status-based social expectation instead of her inner conscience. In that case, I think Austen wanted to illustrate the difference between those 2 kinds of social "virtue" on the backdrop of a character that was perfectly virtuous by the standards of the time.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
Good point! And it really makes me wonder how the various sisters were received by readers of the time, as opposed to us with our modern sensibities! For example, we see Lizzy's athleticism & lack of pretension as admirable, but I wonder if many of the contemporary authors would've censured some of her behaviour...? How iconoclastic was Austen in making her the main heroine?
@Cat_Woods
Жыл бұрын
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 I don't know historically, but I get hints from the text -- how Lizzy is described as "positively wild" for walking several miles in the mud. Even though Darcy likes her by then, he has to admit that he wouldn't want his sister to behave like that. And the reaction to her various refusals of marriage offers shows a lot. Her mother is outraged about Mr. Collins and very vocal about that, without any allowance for Lizzy's feelings about spending her life with a man like that. Lizzy mentions in her refusal of Darcy that the convention is that she is obligated to accept him just by virtue of his status. With Fanny Price, you see even more of the judgments of being "headstrong" or "disobliging." Must have been a nightmare to navigate life as a woman back then.
@ritan2
Жыл бұрын
I think that Jane Austen often uses the device of providing two extremes to bring us to the middle.She does this with many heroes and heroines. Marianne, Elinor, and Lucy in S&S, for example. Lydia is the narcissistic, self-centered, careless, immoral and uncaring extreme; Mary is the moralistic, humorless, and untalented opposite other extreme. Between these two reside Lizzie who comes off as perfectly balanced and wonderful.
@lilith3953
Жыл бұрын
I don't think that Fanny Price is a good example of a likeable heroine at all. She is deeply boring, insipid and I think prideful in her humility too, though she's certainly a little bit smarter and more socially aware than poor old Mary Bennet. Anne Elliot is a much better example of a truely virtuous (by the standards of the day) heroine, who is introverted, bookish and conventional, but likeable. And I think the reason why Anne is so sympathetic while Fanny Price is so irritating and unsympathetic is the rigid, moralizing, envious, poe faced nature of Fanny's inner monologue as opposed to Anne's wise, thoughtful, much more appealing inner monologue.
@Cat_Woods
Жыл бұрын
@@lilith3953 Yeah. I meant more likable than Mary Bennett. She gives Fanny some respect.
@margaretfronczak6829
Жыл бұрын
Dr Cox is back!!!
@MsJubjubbird
Жыл бұрын
Ellie Dashwood, before she turned her channel into a ramble about her personal life, did a video on Mary's function which basically explained she was to create a polar opposite from Lydia, thus making Elizabeth and Jane seem like reasonable middle-ground individuals. I thought Mr Collins might not accept ary because he was vain and she was plain, but he accepted Charlotte, who was no oil painting. However, that was when he pride was hurt and he wanted to prove a point, otherwise, I think he would not have looked twice at her. Charlotte was very clever jumping in at the right moment when he was on the rebound.
@SafetySpooon
Жыл бұрын
I *always* thought so. The BBC 1980 series makes this clear in her expressions; one of the reasons I love it the best.
@eskina1
Жыл бұрын
I think Jane Austen brilliantly portrayed Mary Bennet. A real flesh and blood charachter. We begin by laughing at her narrow mindedness, and other faults, but then we see how her father publicly humiliates her, at Netherfield, how Lydia treats her, and we are compelled to feel sorry for her. Again, this is due to Austen's subtle charachterization. Looks like Austen was also fond of her ( a bit like Balzac? 😊), so Mary ends the novel "not unhappily", when no longer forced to be compared to her beautifull sisters. And one last thing. Mary Bennet has Victorian morals. I see her in 40 years time, as one of the "spitefull old ladies" of Meryton. 😂
@keithprice475
7 ай бұрын
I hope for better things for Mary than that! She would have lots of opportunities to get over her painful adolescent self, such as visits to Pemberley!
@shannonholly155
Жыл бұрын
I like Mary Bennett because i think she serves as the true Bennett foil to Lydia and, to a lesser extent, Kitty. By having Lydia and Kitty at one extreme end of sense and decorum and Mary at the other end, Austen was really able to highlight just how good and well-rounded Lizzie and Jane are.
@warrengday
Жыл бұрын
It will be interesting to see how this knowledge of Mary's thoughts sheds lights on other scenes when she is having those "reflections".
@amherst88
Жыл бұрын
It's *always* a pleasure to hear your analyses, especially of Austen (& you're so right about the 'world' she creates -- it has been many years since I read those novels but I can 'see' all her characters, including their character & behavior, whenever I think about them -- she created the world/s but I live in them too!) I hope all is going well with your coursework -- you are certainly missed in terms of your regular posts but we all appreciate that you are sharing your considerable talents with a paying audience :)
@sarahmwalsh
Жыл бұрын
I'm playing Charlotte in a production of "Pride and Prejudice" right now and we were ruminating on this exact question. I'm definitely going to send them this video! Considering how quickly Mr. Collins leapt from Jane to Lizzy, it's not unreasonable for *both* Mrs. Bennet and Mary to assume that he would begin courting Mary next. I think the language at the end of the paragraph you cite, "every hope of that kind," might be referring to Mary's and Mrs. Bennet's hopes. Had there been no Charlotte, Mr. Collins could very well have just moved right along to the third sister, but Charlotte saw her chance and grabbed it.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
Agreed! Think the phrasing is referring to mother and daughter's hopes. Which I guess just adds to Mrs B's frustration & chagrin when she hears Charlotte has bagged Mr Collins! And even though we are strongly encouraged by the text to laugh at her, I do think Mrs Bennett has her daughter's best interests at heart here? Knowing she must marry for financial survival, and being aware there is a confluence of character & interests between her and Collins. (Whether they'd bring out the best in each other or encourage each other into folly isn't something she seems too concerned about in any of her children's matches!)
@tessat338
Жыл бұрын
Yes, agreed. In "Jane Eyre," Adele is a bit of a cypher. We see how she was raised in an inappropriate environment by her mother, then dumped on a foster family when her mother runs off with some man, then brought up in more comfort but in rural isolation by Mr. Rochester, where she is taken in hand and nurtured by Jane, only to be dumped at a rather strict boarding school when Jane runs away, and then being moved by Jane to a more nurturing school environment, and finally coming home to stay. But we never know how she actually feels about her rather chaotic life, or how she responds to being tumbled from one unstable living situation to another. Adele's adventures rival those of Jane's and her impressions could have made a novel in and of themselves. For the most part, though she was somewhat neglected, Adele was more kindly looked after than was Jane, but we never get to see what Adele makes of her own situation.
@janiecehamblen933
Жыл бұрын
I have always felt it was Mrs. Bennets own fault. She should have directed him to Mary instead of Lizzy. Makes one think she just wanted to get rid of Lizzy, not find a daughter that would best suit him.
@kattkatt744
Жыл бұрын
I do not think Mary would have been sutable for Mr. Collins, but yes, it was a mistake from the families point of view to not forgo etiquette and direct him towards Mary. Their own neglect of Mary sent him straight into the arms of Charlotte Lucas, who for them was a bad thing, but for Mr. Collins was an extraordinary stroke of luck.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
To do Mrs. Bennet justice, daughters were generally married in the order in which they arrived on the planet. If Mrs. Bennet had another motive for sending him to Lizzie, it just supported the birth order thing. I don't think she cared a bit whether any of the daughters were suited to potential spouses. She just wanted them married. And to do her justice, again, she had every reason to be concerned about their fates if they remained unwed.
@joyoung2483
Жыл бұрын
When Mr. Collins first appeared upon the scene I immediately thought how perfect he would be for Mary since she was much more conservative than Lydia and Kitty and more bookish than Elizabeth and Jane. I thought the actor in the TV series perfectly captured in a single look Mr. Collin's reasons for not considering her. Such a pity things didn't work out as they would have been a hoot of a couple.
@sylvain123
Жыл бұрын
Looking forward to this. 1980 mini series to me is the best Mary. Well the best P&P ever. Just my opinion. I always wondered why Jane never got these two together in her book. But then I think charlotte was probably better able to handle Mr Collins. I can never make up my mind 😬
@kahkah1986
Жыл бұрын
I think it heightens the jeopardy, if Mary is going to get Longbourne then the family is safe much earlier in the novel. I think it would be a great irony if, after Lizzie spends much of the book basically ignoring her 'wisdom' Mary suddenly won the Longbourne jackpot, but it would also reward her character when she is supposed to be as wrong as Lydia, just the opposite extreme.
@sylvain123
Жыл бұрын
@@hannahreynolds7611 oh so nice to hear others appreciating this wonderful miniseries. Elizabeth Garvey will always be my Elizabeth Bennett. She was just as I imagined her in the book come to life. I do prefer all the older adaptions. Especially 1983 Mansfield Park. Clunky sets and all. I had a big crush on David Rintoul. He did a brilliant TV series Doctor Finlay, I keep hoping to get the DVDs.
@sueneimoyer5043
Жыл бұрын
I was also going to comment on Tessa Peake Jones’s portrayal of Mary Bennet. I think she does the very best at capturing Mary’s inner pride (as another illustration of it, perhaps, on Austen’s part) and of her continual efforts to be “philosophical” and “intellectual” while only providing “profound insights into the obvious.”
@franziskani
8 ай бұрын
@@sylvain123 I heard that David Rintoul was a good actor - but he was terrible as Darcy, I suspect it was directions. Unfortunately (I would like to like him on second viewieng, but no). Sure there were societal restraints (even in the 1995 miniseries Lizzy and Fitzwilliam do not kiss when they finally get engaged). But Rintoul played him extremely stiff. The man was supposed to be madly in love after all.
@michaelldennis
Жыл бұрын
I simply love your analyses. I've read Pride and Prejudice probably 5 times in the past several years and never really noticed that passage before. And I definitely did not notice the parallel passage of Mary's reflections in the early chapter vs her impression of his reflections here. It's amazing how much can be picked from these seemingly spartan sentences that is so (now) obviously intentional.
@saraa3418
Жыл бұрын
I'd always thought she did, but didn't know if I was taking the cue from the adaptations I'd seen or just setting characters up in a tidy way that could make them happy.
@robertthomson1587
Жыл бұрын
Masterful analysis as usual Dr Cox. Brava! I remember noting Mary's vanity when first reading P&P as a schoolboy and thinking "she's obviously got tickets on herself". However I don't recall considering the possibility of a romantic/marital connection between her and Mr Collins. I expect that most schoolboys wouldn't. I rather naively thought that any "companionship" would revolve around their analysing Fordyce's Sermons together.
@neoHephastia
11 ай бұрын
I've felt like Mary turned to her studies as a way to distinguish herself from her sisters. Jane was the most beautiful, Lizzie the wit, and Kitty and Lydia in cahoots... since she didn't have a sufficiency of education, she grew pedantic. She knew she couldn't dream of a brilliant match, and her prospects were probably dimmest out of all her sisters since she was the least agreeable. Mr Collins was probably her best chance for a life independent of her family. I think she wasn't quite realistic in her ability to manage him and the marriage would have been less agreeable than she supposed. He would have always been bringing up the deficiencies of her family as well.
@joyfulgirl91
Жыл бұрын
I’ve missed your content, looking forward to this
@DrOctaviaCox
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@marianuru2525
Жыл бұрын
I see Mary a kind of antisocial character but full of inner thought. It's not easy for her to express them, though; even with her own family. "What say you Mary? for you are a lady of deep reflexion... Mary wished to say something very sensible , but new not how." (Ch2) I also think that she feels misunderstood by her family and by her society because she doesn't fit there.
@pinstripesuitandheels
Жыл бұрын
As usual, I thoroughly enjoyed your miniature lecture on Jane Austen. I always thought Mary Bennett and Mr Collins were very similar: both conceited and always ready to show off where it couldn't be more unwelcome, both so full of themselves they couldn't help but blunder socially. It wouldn't have been a good match though, I think. They needed to be checked as to not to become too disagreeable.
@LeannaRuthJensen
Жыл бұрын
In this "common place" world of memes and misspelled texts your videos are a banquet of rich vocabulary, insightful illustrations and delightful details. They nourish my mind and quench my desire for refined and articulate discourse. Thank you. I always thought Mary would have been a better wife than Charlotte because she desired to improve him whereas Charlotte simply used him to obtain a comfortable situation.
@susanrobertson984
Жыл бұрын
Always a treat to hear from you Dr Cox! A question for you - what do you think Jane a Austen would have made of the Brontes? Wuthering Heights?
@DrOctaviaCox
Жыл бұрын
A good question, Susan. I certainly think she would have enjoyed poking fun at some of their more _unrealistic_ aspects!
@susanrobertson984
Жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox LOL. And I always assumed Mary would have married Mr Collins in a heartbeat. I think she saw herself as soooooo morally superior that she was a natural to be a preacher’s wife. Alas he may not have lived up to her standards nor she his in the end.
@jrpipik
Жыл бұрын
I think Northanger Abbey is your answer.
@susanrobertson984
Жыл бұрын
@@jrpipik haaaaa!! But it was an answer to Wilkie Collins etc. Imagine what she would have made if Heathcliff and Cathy!!
@jrpipik
Жыл бұрын
@@susanrobertson984 Catherine would have had ghosts on the brain!
@miranda8598
Жыл бұрын
Yes !!! 😀😀😀
@anneprendergast7834
Жыл бұрын
I’ve always thought that Mary illustrates the predicament of a woman who hasn’t got the advantages of money/class/beauty or great charm in making a marriage (she would have to compromise) and tries to set herself as an intellectual in order to carve out a space and a value for herself. Of course she is not a great intellect, but I understand her need to present/think of herself as such. It’s a form of self preservation for the ego.
@louisegogel7973
Жыл бұрын
Very nice analysis. I am enjoying your insights into why Austin’s writing is so well received. She really makes her people come alive as independent individuals.
@sigil8386
11 ай бұрын
Charlotte is as good as her word. She tells Lizzy that a man needs encouragement to fall in love: that a woman needs to give him so sign that his advances will be welcomed. Mary is simply invisible to Mr. Collins, but Charlotte endeavours to always be there for him. In the novel, Miss Bingley is straigthforward to the point of making a fool of herself in front of Darcy, lady Catherine thinks she ca bully people in and out of love, but it is Charlotte's smooth timing and sense of opportunity that wins the day.
@franziskani
8 ай бұрын
Charlotte's smooth timing and sense of oppotunity that wins the day ... VERY well put !
@MissLisers
Жыл бұрын
I wish I could be in your classes but I get to be your student this way!! BTW love your hair
@athag1
Жыл бұрын
Mary’s characterisation of Mr Collins as „by no means as clever as herself” is not the effect of vanity but of observation. Both Mary and Mr Collins are as hopeless as each other when it comes to social abilities, and both totally oblivious in this defect in themselves. We see this at the party where Mary doesn’t know when to stop showing off and Mr Collins goes to introduce himself to Mr Darcy and is unable to perceive Mr Darcy’s rebuke. So when Mary thinks of cleverness, she thinks of bookish knowledge. We know that Mary spends whole days on „accomplishments”, which includes a lot of reading of books on the subiect of morality. On the other hand, Mr Collins is „better suited to be walker than a reader”. Also, when we see him at his „humble abode”, he divides most of his time between gardening and fawning over the ladies od Rosings. Even though Mr Collins’s moralistic prosings suit Mary, she can’t help noticing that she is better read than he is. In fact, I think it says something positive of Mary’s mind that she is able to come to this conclusion at such short aquaintance. At that time women were taught that difidence in a female is a virtue. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the subject of one of the essays that she was so fond of. (Let’s remember how long it took young Catherine Moreland to realise that John Thorpe was an idiot.) And yet, even though Mary likes Mr Collins, she is cool and rational in her judgement of his mental aptitude.
@edithengel2284
Жыл бұрын
I would agree with you that Mary's judgment of Mr. Collins may be correct. But she is not really intellectually clever at all. She reads, but what does she do with what she has read? She merely makes extracts, and parrots what she has read to her family. She is vain of her accomplishments, even though they are pretty empty. That she hugs to herself the thought that Collins is less well read than herself is very sad, as her own accomplishment, which she inflates, is so meager.
@athag1
Жыл бұрын
@@edithengel2284 You make a good case here - and for the record, I do think that Mary is vain. I just don’t think this is a good example of it. I go back and forth on my estimate of Mary’s inteligence. Apparently there are several different types of intelligence, so we can excel in one area and be behind in another. Mary’s emotional intelligence is stunted. Empathy isn’t her strong suit, which makes it difficult for her to put all those moral maxims into the context of every day interactions with people. This makes her act the hypocrite, even though she’s not aware of it. On the other hand, there is something laudable in Mary’s dogged pursuit of accomplishments, even if it’s for the wrong reasons - to stand out from her pretty sisters (and possibly to gain her father’s approval). Mary is the invisible middle child, desperately trying to be visible. However I feel that if she didn’t have an innate respect for the accomplishments of the mind (and the people who possess them), she might have chosen an easier way to stand out. She might have become a drama queen or a hypochondriac. Mary looks unintelligent when compared to the well-adjusted minds and personalities of her older sisters, but compared to Lydia and Kitty’s empty- headed pursuits, she does appear to have some brains!
@ZoonChenar-lw5hx
7 ай бұрын
Great vlog by the way. Admire your passion for the subject!
@caro.s.
Жыл бұрын
I'd like to punt out how far you've come. In your first videos it always took you a while to shake off your nerves and now you speak so smoothly. And it's such a pleasure to listen to you (especially since my first language is not English). I was hoping you'd put out a new video soon and I am sooo enjoying this one. Thank you and enjoy your free weekend :)
@caro.s.
Жыл бұрын
Also I like your new haircut
@andreafisherwriter
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this analysis. It’s SPLENDID!
@davidward805
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant analysis!
@annamorgan3431
10 ай бұрын
I love your analyses. Even though I don't actually read Jane Austen myself - i watch films and tv dramatisations. Your insights are really nice, and add depth and more understanding for me. They also inspire me to watch - or read ! - more. Thank you for sharing.
@rebeccaday8612
Жыл бұрын
Hurrah, a new video! Love the new haircut.
@byusaranicole
Жыл бұрын
Your haircut is sooooo cute!!
@cindland
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this latest video. I was wondering if you were still doing your analyses. Glad you are! 🤩 PS, your new hairstyle is beautiful.
@angelakesecker6291
Жыл бұрын
I loved this! I love all your content. And your hair too! I know you're a busy lady, but I'm always happy when I see a cute little red dot next to your name in my KZitem subscriptions. Thank you for sharing with us.
@larusafox
Жыл бұрын
As with many other characters, in all her novels, Jane Austen constantly reminds us of how self-involved we are, how unaware of other people. Being “the only plain one” in the family, Mary works hard on establishing herself as a somebody, so that she is not lost amidst her beautiful and sexy sisters. It’s the human spirit at work, rising to the occasion, no matter how silly it may seem or actually be. No matter - Jane Austen is both a tireless observer and a champion of the human spirit, especially in women. That’s part of her genius and appeal.
@starfireiii2536
Жыл бұрын
“Obstinate head strong girl!” often echoes in my head when I consider all the women of P&P, especially the character of Mary Bennet. 🌿
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