So I am a metallurgical engineer and I would say that there is not really a way to tell if a given sword blade came from a raw ingot, or from a previously made sword blade. Once you heat a piece of steel up past the austenitizing temperature, a lot of the steel's "history" is lost due to the processes of recrystallization and grain growth. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head to this would be if you knew blacksmith "A" had a significantly different forging technique than blacksmith "B", there may be differences in the texture of the grains, however that would be a longshot as that depends on you knowing both smith's relative forging styles, and if they even forged differently in the first place.
@zeroone8800
3 жыл бұрын
Can historic steel be fingerprinted by the origin of the ore? Could different impurities or isotopic make-up determine the origin?
@zachariaszut
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to clarify this question.
@3r4s3r666
3 жыл бұрын
@@zeroone8800 Trace element and Isotope analysis is definitely a too archaeologists use to determine the provenance of metal objects (one example could be the oxhide ingots). Though as soon as reuse and recycling of objects (eg recycling of roman bronzes) gets more widely used these informations become less and less viable due to mixing of metals of different origin.
@nuancedhistory
3 жыл бұрын
We can tell where the ore was mined by chemical and isotopic composition, often times down to the mine it was mined in. It's like osteography where you use the isotopic composition in their teeth to figure out the water they drank when they were alive. This is how we've traced Roman swords to using ore from specific mines in Austria or South Germany, or Spain, or the Balkans. It's also how the steel used in true Damascus blades were traced back specific mines in India and Pakistan.
@HalSchirmer
3 жыл бұрын
Theoretically you might determine the age of the blade (the last time it was forged) by carbon-14 dating the steel. If you can achieve microscopic C-14 dating, you might detect steel of different ages if it was folded a limited number of times.
@philadeos
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps it's just as simple as the warrior vs. soldier debate. The Chinese military-industrial complex was simply more interested in a standard government issued blade that was reliable and easy to manufacture in great numbers and could perform adequately in a variety of roles. Wars are, after all, won on logistics.
@tihomirrasperic
3 жыл бұрын
the design of the sword is closely related to the style of use so it is easily possible that Chinese swords were quickly broken in Viking hands
@voster77hh
Жыл бұрын
You got a wrong impression of Tang dynasty. Industry = 19th century = Steam power + machinery. Everything pre steam-engine was essentially hand-made. The use of water-power for forging does NOT date back to Tang dynasty. As far as you see "standardization" there is Viking Swords being pretty similar by tradition, the is Acient Roman Gladii being pretty traditionally similar as well as Tang dynasty sword being pretty traditionally similar. There is no "industry" or some marxist 'military-industrial complex" here. At these times Blacksmith and especially Swordsmith metallurgical expert people were having a social status of Magician more or less. The logistics of these times wars were centered on number of horses or Longships available. You could enable anyone with a spear or axe or a simple threshing flail any time to turn anyone into a useful soldier guarding something. So even a pointy stick chopped with a few slashes of an axe or blade would be industry? You need to understand that what you see in depcitons or burials is usually the well equiped rulers household guards that are glorified in the ruling house tradition and narrative of legitimacy.
@johnsamu
Жыл бұрын
@@voster77hh During the FIRST emperor of China there was already a LOT of standardisation going on. The cast bronze crossbow mechanisms of the soldiers in his grave were all standardized. The temple/palace building was also already standardized(to some degree). There's an ancient book with drawings of standardized components like roof decorations, pillars, doors etc builders could choose from to build a structure. The numbers of soldiers of those Chinese armies could be a million or more (eg Jin Empire) so standardisation and mass production was key (just like today).
@voster77hh
Жыл бұрын
@@johnsamu W/O uniform power driven machinery you have no benefit of standardization. It is "roughly the same". That is vecause all rigs, jigs or moulds quickly wear out, soft tools wear out and peoole need a lot of tine per item shaping them manually. Grinding, polishing etc. So you need a lot of people who each follow their own process. From Europe we have books that show working machinery next to fantasy machinery that defies laws of physics even when seen in the most positive light. You need archeological finds corresponding with them. Numbers of armies many times have mythical exaggerations. Such numbers run into aggravated issues of logistical supplies with food and fodder for transport animals that cannot be resolved with horse and cart ranges. Even supply by river barge transport would be limited. Why wouldn't such large formation not be regionally different and totally uniform? Sound like too much CCP propaganda and too little archeologicalnfibds to me. But I'm in no way familiar with Chinese archeology, periods and empires. I have only a very general overview. Inubderstabd the scale of geographies and fertility of certain regions being very good in supporting different scales of settlement. Probably I should read more into some. Hopeefully we get some honest unpolitical archeology from China during my lifetime. It guess that would be enjoyable. Stuff found by modern methods line groud radar and aerial scanning and remote sensing.
@johnsamu
Жыл бұрын
@@voster77hh There's ALWAYS a benefit with standardization however rudimentary the production processes might be. There's no need to have CCP paranoia about the archeology because many of these discoveries were made in conjunction with western archeologists. If you know something about production processes you'll know that mechanization is NO prerequisite for standardization. From ancient Roman times, Chinese empire etc
@arthurdowney2846
3 жыл бұрын
🎵Captain Context! He's a Hero! Talking misconceptions down to zero!🎵
@assumjongkey1383
3 жыл бұрын
That is poetic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ericwilliams1659
3 жыл бұрын
I have the Capt planet theme song in my head reading this.
@johnephraimhimala7718
3 жыл бұрын
I feel so old for understanding this.
@smilingmrj2019
3 жыл бұрын
🎼🎵With his knowledge magnified, He's fighting where no context hides🎵
@mikewilson858
3 жыл бұрын
Sad to hear the Norse didn’t use Chinese swords. I’m afraid my screenplay, Kung-Fu Vikings, might be somewhat ahistorical.
@charles2703
3 жыл бұрын
Fuck that, the burden of evidence is on people to prove it didn’t happen
@quakingphear
3 жыл бұрын
Hey thats never stopped Hollywood before. Follow your dream bud!
@calebdoty9090
3 жыл бұрын
The Wokou were basically Kung-Fu Vikings. If you don't look too closely. They had the same sort of raiding culture, and lived in the southern islands of Japan (Before unification). As far as I know, martial arts wasn't really a part of their style, but at least it is vaguely the right area of the world, so they might have been. You can at least add it to your screenplay without being too far off.
@AllaMortify
3 жыл бұрын
Is it a sequel to 13th Warrior with Jackie Chan playing a Chinese warrior monk/scholar visiting Scandinavia?
@kwanarchive
3 жыл бұрын
Nobody was Kung-Fu Viking Though the idea is exciting They would have been quite frightening Were it not for historical timing.
@calebdoty9090
3 жыл бұрын
Trading in actual finished weapons seems a terrible proposition economically. For trade routes of that length and complexity, you need to have extreme difference in item value on the other end to make it worth it. For something like Spices, Silk, etc it makes sense, but if you were to make a sword in China, it is probably going to be most valuable in China, where they understand the type, and appreciate the craftsmanship. It is very unlikely you could sell Chinese swords to Scandanavians for enough money to make it worth transporting them. Now it is possible that individual swords could make there way there by being carried by the merchants, but those incidents would be so extremely rare as to be invisible in the historical record.
@alicev5496
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think that would necessarily be an issue, since most trade along the silk roads was not transportation over very long distances, but between trading centres relatively close to each other. A well-made sword could probably have been traded with intervals between those various centres without that being a huge loss for any of the merchants involved during the various stages.
@calebdoty9090
3 жыл бұрын
@@alicev5496 That actually makes it even more true, because each merchant would want to realize some profit from the transaction. Example 1: A Merchant buys a sword in China and sells it in Norway. This deal would require a HUGE markup to be profitable, due to the cost of transport. But, as you correctly identified, this realistically never happened until like the 1800s. Example 2: A Merchant buys a sword in china and sells it to a merchant in Dun Huang, who sells it to a Merchant in Tashkurgan, who sells it to a merchant in Samarkand... In this scenario, none of these merchants are actually using the sword, it is just a trade good. Each one of them will want to realize a profit from the transaction, which is only possible if the sword got progressively more valuable the further you got from China. Which it might as a curiosity, but would depreciate as an actual weapon, the further it was removed from the context it was designed for. Example 1 just never happened, but example 2 could have happened in very isolated cases, in theory. It is extremely unlikely though, because the sword would be so ridiculously expensive by the end of it that nobody would want to use it. Of course, all the points in the video are still relevant, because if the vikings had liked the sword, they would have just copied it, not imported the originals.
@theghosthero6173
3 жыл бұрын
People traded blades, not swords, most of the time
@itsapittie
3 жыл бұрын
The same wouldn't necessarily apply to ingots, however, because there is a larger market for lumps of steel than for a ready-made sword or even a blade. Not all (possibly most but not all) high quality steel would become swords and even the part that did would sell better if tailored to a particular culture or even individual. If a given area produced superior steel, it might make a lot of sense to transport or trade it over great distances.
@calebdoty9090
3 жыл бұрын
@@itsapittie Oh definitely true, and there is plenty of archeological evidence for it. But the topic of the video is really about swords making it to very different cultures, and I think that would be a vanishingly rare occurrence. If it did happen, I would fully expect them to repurpose the steel rather then use a weapon they were unfamiliar with.
@MaliciousMollusc
3 жыл бұрын
We do know for a fact that China had steady contact with the Middle East. Vikings may have even traded spices and medicine from China. Not to mention textiles like Silk.
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
Yes they did buy silk, it has been found in graves in Sweden, and a Buddha figure probably from present day Pakistan.
@MaliciousMollusc
3 жыл бұрын
@@alicelund147 owned by a Jarl, I presume?
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
@@MaliciousMollusc It is in graves so no one know exactly who was buried there, but the silk is mainly in women's graves. But of course rich people.
@possumsam2189
3 жыл бұрын
The Arabian traders had travelled to Scandinavia and traded with the natives at the time. So it is not all that surprising. They even wrote travel journals on the topic.
@sumedhdhoni8666
3 жыл бұрын
You're forgetting India. A major source of spice.
@draven86
3 жыл бұрын
I've heared of a French Knight that owned a Chinese Jian sword and is buried with him
@cyhavoc
3 жыл бұрын
That's absolutely correct. At least the lid of the Knight's tomb is in the cloisters in New York City. I saw it maybe a year ago.
@mnk9073
3 жыл бұрын
Jean d’Alluye is the man you're looking for. I think the most common theory is that he bought/looted it while crusading in the Levant.
@colbunkmust
3 жыл бұрын
How do you know it's a Chinese sword if it's buried with him? Was his body exhumed?
@killerkraut9179
3 жыл бұрын
@@colbunkmust Link maybe ?
@colbunkmust
3 жыл бұрын
@@killerkraut9179 looking at the effigy, I don't think one can go so far as to claim it's definitively a jian. We can only see the hilt and while it could be a jian, it could also be an Ayyubid or Mameluke sword of which there are 13th century examples that do have similar hilt shapes.
@jbassguy571
3 жыл бұрын
Are there any examples of viking era European weapons having made their way into china?
@LazyLifeIFreak
3 жыл бұрын
This would be very interesting to learn about. If any viking swords made it to China.
@aokiaoki4238
Жыл бұрын
Byzantine yes
@theartofmantis
3 жыл бұрын
Mounted warfare was one of the main reasons why Tang era swords were shape that way. This type of dao became the standard equipments for soldiers since the Han-Xiongnu Wars and its design was influenced by that kind of stepp warfare. After Han, there were nomadic tribes from the stepp and the Manchuria area establishing kingdoms in the mainland, and the Tang Dynasty was the end of that historical process. As such the Tang shared a lot of stepp influence and culture. It changed when it move into the Song era, where the Song was cut of from the Western trade route and it lacked a steady supply of warhorses. The shape of the dao changed with it since its army was mostly infantry and good horses were group into heavy cavalry, dragoons even, using heavy weaponries like glaives and halberds. The most effective weapon in Song was the crossbow.
@itsapittie
3 жыл бұрын
I've always believed that ancient people traveled a lot more than modern people give them credit for. That's why I consider the occasional "out-of-place" artifact a non-mystery for the most part. For example, the Norse coin found in Maine. People are like, "How could it have gotten there?" Well...let's see...it's small and easily carried and an exotic item for the time and place. How about...I dunno...a Native American picked it up in L'anse aux Meadows and carried or traded it down to Maine? If a Chinese sword turned up in a Scandinavian burial, I'd be a little surprised but not particularly mystified.
@ghosturiel
3 жыл бұрын
There was a Buddha statue found in 1954 in a Swedish town dated back to the 5th century. The legendary Ulfbert swords are also made of crucible steel which was technology that was unheard of in Europe till the the industrial age, yet was available in the India region. Vikings were well established traders so truly it wouldn't be too shocking that anything could have found it's way into their hands.
@SixGunJo
3 жыл бұрын
As someone from Korean, Japanese, and Norwegian heritage, I find this topic personally interesting. I guess that my "Son of a Byzantine Varangian and a Goryeo administrator relocated by the Mongols during the Pax Mongolica," character can wear Viking kit and carry a Chinese sword and a Korean bow after all!
@spitalhelles3380
3 жыл бұрын
don't write yourself into the story
@BillyTheKidder
3 жыл бұрын
But could the vikings use chopsticks?.. THAT’S the real question..
@SonsOfLorgar
3 жыл бұрын
Only for stabbing ;)
@normanbraslow7902
3 жыл бұрын
Of course they used chop sticks. All the time. They loved sushi and sashimi. It was a mainstay food in Valhalla.
@Mishkola
3 жыл бұрын
Only effeminate eastern men chopsticks. Real men choptrees
@scratchy996
3 жыл бұрын
@@normanbraslow7902 I too have seen that animated documentary.
@normanbraslow7902
3 жыл бұрын
Maxawe Some, Great, wasn't it?
@natn41r
2 жыл бұрын
Viking swords actually look quite similar in shape (broad double-edged blade) to the swords used in the Warring States period in China. Look up the "Sword of Goujian" for reference.
@chrissymcgee5930
3 жыл бұрын
I think that there is more metal in the Viking sword, the Chinese have always been able to conscript massive armies, that dwarved European sized armies at the time and so needed to produce more weapons, where every once of raw material counts. This philosophy of numbers is seen right throughout history, there is always a trade off between quantity, quality and affordability. Just a thought. These choices impact weapon design which in turn impacts warfare styles.
@Yarblocosifilitico
3 жыл бұрын
good point!
@Knoloaify
3 жыл бұрын
Considering that Tang China was far, far bigger than Scandinavia and had far more resources, the idea that they'd have to use less metal because of resource shortages is silly (and if they don't have enough they can simply import more from India). Especially since we know that China always had a vast variety of swords, and some were really big.
@nos8141
3 жыл бұрын
@@Knoloaify yes, alot of different styles
@bewarethegreyghost
3 жыл бұрын
Contact with the Roman Spatha also likely shaped what a "sword" was in the Northern cultures at that time. The same way all early cars look like a Ford model T for a while.
@commander31able60
3 жыл бұрын
"how could they have acquired them" is, to me, a more interesting question than what they used or how. how did a Free Syrian Army fighter get his hands on a Belgian assault rifle (F2000)? where did ISIS get all those new Toyotas?
@arx3516
3 жыл бұрын
Today goods travel much more easily than in ancient times.
@commander31able60
3 жыл бұрын
@@arx3516 they are also more tightly controlled. I was just giving examples of things I know of.
@ozarkscarguy540
3 жыл бұрын
Biden
@ctrlaltdebug
3 жыл бұрын
Obama
@sheldoniusRex
3 жыл бұрын
Hillary
@allgood6015
3 жыл бұрын
Haven't watched the video yet, but I know for a fact that Vikings went as far South as Caspian Sea by the way of Volga river. Their influence is widely known trough the region. Fun fact - in chechen language(tiny nation in Russian North Caucasus mountain ridge) word paradise is pronounced "Valgalla". Coincidence? Nope.
@ukromarine426
3 жыл бұрын
No it's not, it's "Yelsmani". Furthermore, chechen is a quite isolated language, people Who speak this language don't live at the coast, there is no reason for them to loan this pagan word, they're muslims after all. You must be confusing chechen with someone.
@allgood6015
3 жыл бұрын
@@ukromarine426 , my apologies, you are correct, but I am not wrong either - Valagala in chechen means "City of Dead"
@allgood6015
3 жыл бұрын
Oh, and as far as their religion - they were pagans first, then Christians, and only then they flipped to Islam - plenty of archeological evidence to prove it. There are many ancient stone watch towers in Chechnya with crosses laid in mason work on them despite strong efforts to hide such knowledge.
@karliikaiser3800
3 жыл бұрын
@@ukromarine426 It is known that norse man traded with muslims as well, to most merchants religion does not matter.
@johnw.brunson9400
3 жыл бұрын
Matt I love your videos they are very informative.
@maxwellkafka
3 жыл бұрын
Is there a video on European vs Asian shield popularity/usage? For Europe, you always hear about the importance of shields from Ancient Greece up to dueling with a buckler, but not as much with Asia, especially East Asia
@Zetact_
3 жыл бұрын
Sure, I’ve seen Skall’s collabs with Swordsage.
@countingcoup
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe a comparison of the earlier “Jian’s” which are double sided would be interesting, although the Dao was prominent in the Tang era.
@royshobe6642
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this video
@ericph9
3 жыл бұрын
I would think that, rather than going to the trouble (and spending the money) to have it re-forged, it would just be left as-is. If someone rich acquired it through trade, I imagine they would also be able to afford a "normal" sword that fit with their contemporary tactics and style of combat/training. If they were poor and happened to stumble across it ("oh, hey, a free sword, on the ground over there"), is there any reason why they wouldn't just use it in the same manner as other swords at that time?
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
Yes it would have been a status object because it is unusual, especially if it was nicely decorated.
@theghosthero6173
3 жыл бұрын
I mean Ryukyuan, neighbors of the Japanese, preferred short grip on there sword and deliberately cut the hilt of the katana and wakizashi they acquired. Probably the same could happen to that tang Jian.
@stefthorman8548
Жыл бұрын
different fighting styles. no matter how superior the steel, it's not going to make an dueling saber chop shields.
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
My theory is that the Viking combat style was evolved around spear or axe and shield, and the sword was instead of an axe (More expensive option). So it was cut oriented and not thrust oriented, (Explains the type of grip, front heavy and rounded point) because they used it similarly as they used the axe. They didn't change combat style when switching from axe to sword (Of course slightly but not fundamentally). For thrusting spear and for cutting axe or sword. A sword is instead of an axe. But not so for the Chinese? The sword was the "standard" for them like later in Europe so combat-style was based on the sword.
@AndreasSweden
3 жыл бұрын
Good point. Honestly, when i try to see the chinese sword, from an scandinavian perspective the closest weapon i can think of is a langeseax. Sort of; fancy long knife. Deadly in a brawl but not practical for military purposes.
@lexion21
3 жыл бұрын
I' always figured that Ulfburg got that way of making swords/billets/ingots from a middle eastern teacher and/or texts or they were middle eastern to begin with and came north, either as a traveler or thrall, adapting to local culture and taking northern name
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
Ulfberth swords are not made by one person, not even from one place and one time. It is unsure what is means.
@damenblackgrave2189
Жыл бұрын
One anecdote I find interesting in context to this video, are the longer Seax swords that have been found from the Viking era. Much like The Seax of Beagnoth. The style of these seax swords, have a sort of similarity to the Chinese blade in question. Could be seen as an in-between for the two as well. The details reveal a great deal of difference, but at a basic level there is some likeness.
@kimashitawa8113
Жыл бұрын
Aren't Seaxes like the Carolingian swords a lot more heavy in the middle of the blade though? Instead of near the grip like a Chinese sword?
@damenblackgrave2189
Жыл бұрын
@@kimashitawa8113 It depends on the seax in question, some are more forward balanced for slashing/chopping, many are balanced closer to the tang, but not perfectly. The idea for most seax, was utility. Even the Scramseax, and Lonseax, could have a variety of balance points. They aren't uniform throughout history, but in general I'd say you have the right notion.
@joshuastamos2213
3 жыл бұрын
That dao seems to have more in common with a jian than it does with most dao that I’ve seen.
@victordesanderobledo4522
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not an expert by any means, but the difference in shape may be caused by the quality of the steel. In China there is a long tradition of making very good steel. Not so much in 9th century Europe. The thing is, when we europeans started to get good metal, swords started to be thinner, yet retaining the same strength. As said, only an opinion.
@nothotsquidjunk2631
3 жыл бұрын
The Vikings themselves, certainly weren't known for good quality swords, but already in places like the Frankish lands, there was a burgeoning reputation for good quality blades. There's also the question of what qualities in the steel you're looking for. In the West, through tempered, springy blades were clearly the way to go, but in the East, that wasn't so universal, and sometimes differentially hardened blades were preferred.
@victordesanderobledo4522
3 жыл бұрын
@@nothotsquidjunk2631 I mean that clean steel with no slag inclusions is better. No matter how was it heat treated. The chinese used blast furnaces. Some of them were enormous. Hot enough to melt the steel in the same way as crucible steel. Inclusion free. Look, I read about historical steel production a month ago or so in Wikipedia. I have absolutely no personal experience in making swords. Have done only a bit of blacksmithing and welding. And I know that a weld bead with slag impurities inside it will break.
@nevisysbryd7450
3 жыл бұрын
@@victordesanderobledo4522 As I noted in my own comment, I came across some comments a long time ago on another Matt video where some people discussed this exact topic relative to Migration Era sword design. Supposedly, the design maximizes the material strength along the primary stress points for the blade shape. (idk the proper terminology, stuff like the difference between compression vs torque). By comparison, the same materials would be a lot weaker (and thus prone to breaking) along the stress points if in a thicker, slimmer shape.
@nicholasw777
3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if our hindsight and ability to view the different cultures in parallel enables us to see shortcomings or lack of optimization in their weapons that they simply weren’t aware of.
@Pawsk
3 жыл бұрын
I think we can very obviously say that some areas were just more advanced at certain things, at certain oints in history. I guess when we make these comparisons we gravitate towards the weapon designs that are famous(proved to be functional). You might very well find a much more clear example of swords which were just worse.
@jaydensjourney2626
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you yoda. Great video as always.
@Aurinkohirvi
3 жыл бұрын
The two countries in Europe with most found Ulfberht swords are Norway (44 swords) and Finland (31 swords). Plenty of Viking Age swords have been unearthed in Finland (about 400), and they are most often considered either made in Central European swords factories or domestic made. The Ulfberht swords are considered made in France, of steel that was brought from Afghanistan and Persia. fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulfberht-miekka
@HalSchirmer
3 жыл бұрын
I believe that somebody HAS used gamma ray or synchrotron / particle accelerators to non-destructively probe the composition of steels and even count the folding. IIRC somebody was doing quality control on low-background-radiation steel for a particle accelerator (steel manufactured after the nuclear age began in 1945 contains traces of radioactive isotopes, earlier steel does not). They arranged to borrow the oldest steel object they could get, a medieval sword, and used that for a control sample BUT found they could do 3 dimensional imaging similar to the what was done with the Antikyhikera mechanism.
@johanmetreus1268
3 жыл бұрын
Why would the swords need to take a detour to the Western Europe when Vikings were in regular trade with the Black Sea region?
@Riceball01
3 жыл бұрын
Maybe there was a cultural aspect as well. It's possible that the Norse simply liked their swords broader because it was a way to show off to their fellow warriors. To them, it might have said, look at me, I'm so well off that I can not only afford a sword but one with a nice broad blade as well which took a lot of (expensive) steel/iron to make. It could also have been a case of them perceiving thinner bladed swords, like the Chinese favored at the time, as being too delicate and dainty for their liking and/or not as sturdy as locally made blades.
@RiderOftheNorth1968
3 жыл бұрын
So that chinese sword is not a transitional sword, it is a full Tang? Right?!?
@CthonicSoulChicken
3 жыл бұрын
Zing!
@nichmiller4251
3 жыл бұрын
And yet again we are given definitive proof that swords don't go *sshhinnngggg* when drawn or sheathed.
@shanedebarra4986
3 жыл бұрын
Some make a metallic sound (I would not call it a "sshhinnnggg" though, like in movies)... metal scabbard european military sabres for example 👍 Totally agree about wooden scabbard weapons making that sound though ... cringe 🙃
@nichmiller4251
3 жыл бұрын
@@shanedebarra4986 I concur on both points. Lol I've found myself obsessively observing film/tv weapons to see if it should make the noise.
@tommysedin
3 жыл бұрын
Matt actually did a video on this. Swords *do* go schwiiiing ........ when you have a metal "throat" on the scabbard. kzitem.info/news/bejne/zmabsZh9nKepdKw
@underinfluence9639
Жыл бұрын
I believe the difference of the design was due to the style of warfare. The vikings recieved most of their military successes in western europe, and in the east they weren't extremely efficient against the Romans who has included much more diverse styles of units, such as the cataphracts. While in western europe at the time, due to the landscape, many places are suitable for infantry, and without the urgency to include heavy calvary units to equip soldiers/militias. Hence, it would be very efficient for the Vikings and the Franks/Lombards etc etc to do alot of the fighting with such weapon as main weapon with a shield. As far as I'm aware, the vikings were notorious for hit-n-run type of fighting, they quickly raid a town and leave, so they also do not commonly end up in a situation where they have to fight heavily equipped knights at that time. But in Tang Dynasty, calvary has became a large part of the regular military much like the Romans at the time, with large cataphracts charging formations, hence the Tang Dao is equipped as a sidearm more or less. They needn't to be big and tough to do much fighting, all it had to do is to be a versatile last-resort, jack of all trades master of none.
@underinfluence9639
Жыл бұрын
Moreover, the Mo Dao (陌刀) is another type of Tang Dao which was documented to be much bigger and had its own military units and formations, called the Mo Dao Zhen (陌刀阵). It was speculated to be an extremely large, glaive-like Dao that are used for heavily equipped infantry soldiers without shields as anti-cataphract units. Different designs are most likely due to the context of the war, and less about the size of the carrier, and archaeological findings shows that skeletons of ancient warrior tombs matches the heights and size of modern people, approximately 175-185cm (5'9 - 6'1).
@underinfluence9639
Жыл бұрын
The use of Mo Dao (陌刀) can be found in both Tang-Chinese scriptures and Islamic Abbasid Caliphate scriptures during their battle in Talas River, where the Mo Dao Zhen Formation was utilized during the siege from the Tang army.
@Joe___R
3 жыл бұрын
As far as I am aware crucible steel varies to such an extent that unless there is almost no way of being able to know if a sword was modified into another sword type without having an unfinished archeological find to say for certain that that sword was a type A & it is being turned in a type B. If the vikings were doing that or just using them as raw material for their own style of sword there would be some sort of evidence if just a story someone wrote down so if it was happening it was extremely rare.
@undertakernumberone1
3 жыл бұрын
important note: Ulfberhts AREN'T Scandinavian swords. THey probably originated in the frankish realm, however they became rather popular with Vikings, at least as tomb gifts.
@gregcampwriter
3 жыл бұрын
Hagar the Horrible looks at the Chinese sword and wonders why he'd take a table knife into combat.
@nevisysbryd7450
3 жыл бұрын
Material limitations might have been a contributing factor. I read some comments on some OLD videos on this channel discussing the metallurgy of nw. European Migration Era swords and how the shape and differentiated steel types and differential hardening minimize the material weaknesses along the relevant planes of stress-or, narrower blades of that length would be more prone to failure at a comparable blade length (or along other similar dimensions). The limitations of material strength have always limited the feasibility of certain tool dimensions (such as how thin a blade can be at a certain length) without becoming logistically unfeasible. While method of use, style of warfare, economic logistics (standardized Chinese armies vs economically comparatively isolated Migration Era northwestern Europe), frequency of specific demands of the tools (such as armor, with Europe proportionally more layered textile armor or relatively unarmored targets), and other factors were definitely primary factors, relative abundance of and the limitations of specific materials may have been a differentiating factor that further promoted certain weapon styles.
@doratheexploder286
3 жыл бұрын
I spot a new item on your wall, or at least it showed up in the last few videos, the curvy blade between the dhals. What is it?
@j.f.fisher5318
3 жыл бұрын
I'd suspect you are right about needing a weapon able to be used in armored fighting. The iron or steel lamellar is a lot easier to mass produce than mail, which is pretty important when equipping massive armies commensurate with China's population, but would surely have resulted in a lot of gaps since armor made that way can't be shaped as precisely as a forged sheet of metal. Also, China was 2-3 centuries ahead of the west along the path to industrialization so we are looking at mass production of fairly uniform lamellar plates on a huge scale for armor production with widespread equipping of even low status troops with a degree of plate armor protection. By contrast there was probably a much wider gap between different classes in the west from high-status nobles with extensive mail to commoners wearing perhaps just a gambeson, and while I'd suspect the spatulate-tipped cutting swords weren't much good against mail, they probably cut down commoners in gambeson pretty effectively.
@bentrieschmann
3 жыл бұрын
I see you rearranged your wall, Matt! I'm curious where some of your more iconic blades went.
@stanlim9182
3 жыл бұрын
Have you seen the Tsurugi sword ? It’s a Japanese double edged sword based on the Chinese Jian.
@shogun2heroicvictories15
3 жыл бұрын
Anything could have happened, Trade was pretty active back than, and swords carried by the merchant caravans for protection could have been traded to people who were interested or it could have been loot after the caravans were attacked by bandits. Transport of arms for long distance for trade is possible, but I doubt the army would have been allowed to trade any surplus, even poorly made weapons would be reforged and sealed in an arsenal. So any weapons that could make it to the west would have been private weapons that were produced by local blacksmiths. That said the Tang army was pretty active so its not completely impossible that their weapons won't have ended up in enemy hands as loot. I believe the reason why the design for the sword didn't change for the west was probably because no one thought it needed to. Standardisation of arms is pretty common, and it makes mass production easier. And it makes sense that the blacksmith would create and perfect the same design rather than fumble with a new one.
@BCSchmerker
3 жыл бұрын
+scholagladiatoria *The Germans handcrafted their own tools and weapons, and the Norge took particular pride in the craft of arms and armor.* The crucible steel method of smelting may have reached the Germans from India via the Huns from Central Asia; the most notable Germans to use this method were a certain Wulfberht of the Middle Rhine and a certain Ingelred of Jütland, both of whom pattern-welded and forged broad-bladed double-edged swords for princes and generals. European infantry of the Dark Ages used the shield-wall formation inherited from the Near East, and the deep-bladed German swords were therefore designed for chopping and hacking.
@danielmartin4596
3 жыл бұрын
Peter Johnsson (I think) made a point about sword design tying into a cultures warrior values and desired self image, so in this case the sorts of people the vikings identified with were large powerful, heroic types, who delivered fel blows with large blades and such. where as that Chinese sword was far more the result of military thinking and requirements, soldiers being greater together than individually. a sort of collectivist vs individualistic society thing, but in sword form.
@troysiddle2032
3 жыл бұрын
Random crackpot theory I just utterly concocted out of thin air: Saltwater does horrific things to steel. You start out with a big, beefy sword, you can rub post-voyage rust off innumerable times and still have a substantial weapon. You start off in your longship with the nimble Chinese blade, and it might rust all the way through, or, the wear you put on it cleaning off rust will wear it away to uselessness sooner.
@Dr_V
3 жыл бұрын
Considering how expansive steel production was in that age (both financially and in terms of time and effort), I'd say no blacksmith would have wasted good quality blade material regardless of where it came from. But unlike today when swords are collectible items with little practical use, in times when people's lives depended on a blade they'd rather get one that they were sure they can use effectively with their existing training/experience, so I don't see a viking actually carrying an exotic sword into battle. At best a Chinese blade could have been kept intact if a king/leader got it as a gift from some foreign traders or diplomats.
@johnmccallum9106
3 жыл бұрын
One possibility is weapon Maintenace. A Norse smith would know exactly how to maintain the type of swords he made. If a different type of sword came to him with even light damage he may well have told the owner that it was not fixable but was best reforged and would then end up a more standard Norse blade. Norsemen seem to have used their weapons a lot so damaged weapons were to be expected.
@johnwu8916
3 жыл бұрын
My guess is that Chinese military doctrine at the time and historically even from the warring state period, tends to focus on pole arms and missile weapons, in the form of the Chinese horse cutters, ji, and mass producers crossbows. So swords would be more of a side-arm similar to today’s pistol in military context. While in the Viking era the sword is a primary weapon.
@kamilszadkowski8864
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think it was. I think it's pretty clear that the main weapons of the Viking era were bows and spears.
@alicelund147
3 жыл бұрын
As Kamil says I think the Sword was a back up weapon also for Vikings, except in duels.
@frankwu3466
3 жыл бұрын
As the first question, will the Chinese export some blade to the west. The answer probably is no. For that specific time, China as a unified empire, Salt, iron and copper are under heavy control. Salt is a necessary consumable, copper is the material for currency, iron, and steel for weapons. Because of the importance of these three substances, their production, transportation and sales are under the central government's supervision. Although it's likely for somebody to smuggle iron or Steel nugget from China, but if it is a standard-issue blade, I will say no.
@MartinGreywolf
3 жыл бұрын
While not Vikings, there is some evidence Chinese swords were used in Europe a little bit. Some Bulgarian sabers from about 10th century have a curious L-shaped bit under the hilt that looks a lot like some of the more fancy ones on the Song dynasty swords. Then there are early Avar sabres that resemble Han swords quite a lot, complete with ring pommels, and of course Mongol sabers.
@Richard-mo1nc
3 жыл бұрын
“Could the Vikings have used Chinese swords?” I think yes. Definitely. It wouldn’t look so much alien than other straight swords to the Vikings. It’s very interesting to see markings or engravings on Vikings swords as shown in the video. Why did the Vikings make these marks on their swords? What meaning do the markings have? And, did other factions decorate their swords with markings similar to Viking sword craft? I’m curious to here what are your thoughts about weapons and armour trade between the Western and Eastern civilizations. For example, did the Romans make contact with the Chinese and Indians? What did different race or factions do with foreign armaments when they acquired something exotic?
@clothar23
3 жыл бұрын
Are you talking about the runes ? That's just written Norse mate and in some cases was just a maker's mark. Other times the weapon's name or even the owners name. Sometimes they served a more superstitious reason. And sometimes they were just decorative. Making weapons pretty isn't a modern art.
@Richard-mo1nc
3 жыл бұрын
@@clothar23 Ah, I didn't think of it like that. Thank you for sharing your answer.
@majesticgothitelle1802
3 жыл бұрын
Viking runecaster vs chinese warrior talisman user who will win, who will lose. See you next time on mystic warrior...!
@undertakernumberone1
3 жыл бұрын
"Ulfberht... However we don't know how it got from India to the Viking lands..." I mean, the most common theory on how the Ulfberhts got into Viking lands i've seen is: Bought or plundered from the frankish realms... where they originated.... I've also seen the theory that the Ulfberhts might've been actually completely European in origin. Indian Steel, from what i've read, had much higher quantities of Vanadium and Molybdenum, whcih so far haven't been found in Ulfberhts and other european swords. Might be wrong though.
@nothotsquidjunk2631
3 жыл бұрын
Cool concept. I think it's mostly a question of weapon/martial ancestry, just in the same way that armor materials and construction differed slightly between cultures. In medieval Europe, weapons and armor descended from a Celtic/Germanic ancestor (arguably Roman as well), thus long, choppy, double edged straight swords and mail made from riveted rings, and consequently different materials/approaches in Eastern Asia. Their traditions had already begun on divergent courses to solve the same problems - and continued to do so, thus, stabby, pointy arming swords in Europe and tachi and dao in East Asia. It's also a question of tradition/conditioning. Western peoples knew how to make/care for/use Western swords. They might be able to import the Chinese sword, but not the Chinese sword master/maker.
@morriganmhor5078
3 жыл бұрын
But in the Celtic bronze age there were also the so-called rapier with the hilt structure that made cleaving almost impossible and So were probably really used ONLY for sticking info some unfortunate opponent.
@MarcusVance
3 жыл бұрын
I've heard rumor of a Roman soldier buried with a Chinese dao. Any knowledge of that?
@chadfalardeau5396
3 жыл бұрын
There is the legend of the lost legion. They headed east and were never seen or heard from again, and China is east of Rome
@aryafeydakin
3 жыл бұрын
You can start calling "Lorsch-Fulda swords" or "Taunus steel swords" the "ulfberth" swords. In 2014 the Hannover ACI (Robert Lehmann team) analyzed a ulfberht recovered in the Weser river in 2012. All metallic parts of the ulfberth sword have been isotopically retraced to europeans ores. Iron, copper, tin, silver, all came from european ores. The blade steel has been isotopically retraced to a region known for its iron ore since roman times, the Taunus region, in the heart of Germany. The same team even narrowed the production site to two medieval monasteries, Lorsch and Fulda in Germany. The small scandinavian piracy a.k.a "vikings" just rehilted high-end frankish sword blades with pretty hilts.
@MrDikini
3 жыл бұрын
More interestingly, for me at least, the vikings definitely had access to the relatives of the dao - the palash and (early ?) sabers from bulgars & khazars as they were trading partners.
@sheep1ewe
3 жыл бұрын
I actualy think i saw something like that preserved in a museum here from earth finds long time ago, unfurtunatly i can't remember where i saw it since i was just a little child at the time.
@kamilszadkowski8864
3 жыл бұрын
Good questions! East Slavs used sabers, it would make sense that some Norsemen adopted them. Another question is: Did they used composite bows? We know for a fact that not only did Nomads used them but also East and some of the West Slavs with which Norsemen definitely came in contact.
@sheep1ewe
3 жыл бұрын
@@kamilszadkowski8864 We did use composite bows in scandinavia since the early stone age, particulary as hunting bows in the north, but they where slightly different from the eastern style ones since they needed to be more water resistant due to the water from the snow (so they where wrapped in treebark) and where also slightly taller since thjey where mainly used to be worn on the ground (however there is a channel here where a finish guys demonstrate how they can be easily used from a horseback as well) In the north there are also a few finds of those sabre style swords, however quite rare, but i am not sure if they are of slavic or Germanic origin, but i know that there are a few remains of slavic culture settlements in the north here, so it is absolutly a possibility.
@kamilszadkowski8864
3 жыл бұрын
@@sheep1ewe I should have specified that I meant composite recurve bows. Where those bows recurve? Nevertheless, thanks for the answer. Quite interesting actually. I have to do some research about this topic. " but i know that there are a few remains of slavic culture settlements in the north here," --- Jesus, finally! A Scandinavian that knows about this. Sorry, but I got really excited reading this. You can't even imagine how often Scandinavians were either calling me a liar or an idiot when I was mentioning the Slavic settlements in Scandinavia.
@sheep1ewe
3 жыл бұрын
@@kamilszadkowski8864 As far as i know from reconstructions of native north Same bows they where not actual inverted bows as some types of the mongolian bows where, more like semi inverted as the siberian bows. Yes, it is just not as well known today as it seem, but, at least in the northern parts of Scandinavia and the Nord there hawe always been a strong connection to the slavic culture in the past due to trading but also cultural exchanges. There are even a lot of elements in the native culture here, like cloathing details, etc that also point in that direction since it can also be found in a lot of slavic cultures as well (like the female headdresses, etc) Finds from the actual excavations of the sites combined with modern DNA analyzis clearly show that the inhabitants where slavic people living in scandinavia, at least in the northern sweden (or more likly it is just better preserved in the northern parts because of the acidic soil and a lot less interference by later human activity in the same spots as in the south). And they where deffinitly free men and womans and often wealthy people according the their left belongings, so they where certanly not just randomish people taken as thralls as some guys may suggest. We did in fact not take slaves at all in the northern parts (as far as i know), but sometimes youths where working for free on the farms in order to learn the proffesion and get some freedom from their parents in the summers.
@paoloviti6156
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting points but it is good to remember that there was far more contact than we thought between many parts of the known world before the roman period and there was many contacts between Greece and India even before Alexander the Great thanks to the Persians, not to mention the Romans had much trades with India in order to obtain precious spice and India had continuous contacts with Asian countries including China even after the downfall of the Roman empire the contacts was kept with the Bisantine empire somehow interrupted with the Muslim conquest. That said it should be entirely possible that the Chinese sword could have reached Viking countries but in my opinion it would have taken too much to train a Viking to train with such swords just as well to train them with the Arabian sabres. It was simply too different to use them unless it had exceptional advantages...
@michalphillip800
3 жыл бұрын
someone found {dug} a Japanese sword at fort fisher { NC },.... proving that {at least some body } in the CSA actually carried a samurai during the american civil war !
@МихаилЕвдокимов-б4ш
3 жыл бұрын
Those vicings that trade and lives along Volga and Dnieper reavers could use it. Sarmats had Chinese swords and crossbows.
@phillip0537
3 жыл бұрын
I think your point about the armor differences is an important one. Mail doesn't really have gaps to exploit, either it covers an area or it doesn't. Perhaps the technology to make swords pointy enough to have a chance at comprising mail wasn't available or reliable/universal enough (steel quality?), so they preferred powerful cutters. Lamellar still has gaps to be explored that are unarmed, so a more thrust-centric sword, even with worse steel than later, would be more desirable.
@wojoiv
2 ай бұрын
The Roman spatha greatly influenced the Germanic tribes during the migration period for sword making. And I think it went from there. And the Spatha was used by Cavalry, so...
@MrKulla92
3 жыл бұрын
That's an interesting question. If weapons from china ever have come to europe via trade, it has probably come through the silk road in my opinion. But the big question is whether the weapon was an ordinary trade goods on the side road. We know that firearms and gunpowder came through that trade route but it took about 500 to 600 years after the invention of gunpowder until arrived in europe, and frankly through theft. The Chinese were willing to trade in many different goods but not weapons to my knowledge. But it is an interesting question and it would have been interesting / appreciated if someone had investigated the matter.
@justicar5
3 жыл бұрын
I believe it is possible to test what method of crucible was used (what the carbon was from, for instance, what contaminated the ore) and from that have an educated guess at point of origin, both of the ore, and the method used to smelt it (whether the carbon came from bones, from plant matter, from charcoal etc can apparently be traced) how accurate that is, and how unique such methods actually were I have no idea.
@toothclaw6985
3 жыл бұрын
How much blunt force do you think a Viking sword (or any Oakeshott Type X) could dish out? To my understanding, swords are generally rubbish for dishing out concussive force, but you make a good point about the Viking sword's blade design being optimal for making heavy blows. I'm wondering if a really forceful blow could still transfer a substantial amount of blunt trauma even to someone wearing armor.
@DacianFalx2
3 жыл бұрын
I am not very familiar with the Chinese side of things, but at least when fighting with/against a big round center grip shield, I find it quite difficult to find or create openings for a thrust (other than possibly the head, which would've often been protected by a helmet I presume). Forearm and to some extent the shin right below the knee seem to be much more "available" targets, and those parts of the body are not easy to target with a thrust. And if I've understood correctly, those parts of the body would not be covered by mail very often at this period. So at least to me it would make sense to utilize a sword optimized for chopping if you're primarily targeting the limbs. A more thrust focused sword would make more sense if you'd expect to encounter smaller shields and/or less rigid armor often enough, but as mentioned, I'm not that familiar with the Chinese equipment.
@micahcampa
3 жыл бұрын
liked the video anything is possible is history just like the japanese in the 16thcentury made swords out of Imported dutch steel the japanese called it nanban tetsu which Translates to southern barbarian steel in the kanbun era from 1661 to 1667 so i dont doubt that some viking sword could have been made of foreign steel thanks for the video
@TheLordArion
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting comparisons. How similar is the Viking sword, in handling and use, to the tulwar? Seems they would have more in common. Ofcourse not the same period or enviroment but still.
@duje44
3 жыл бұрын
it could be culture thing, Chinese culture favoured more skill and elegance, and thus had swords that have higher skill sealing, while Vikings were more about bigger the better. Take into account that Chinese culture was older and more sophisticated. It could also be a thing of technology, bigger and wider swords are less likely to break if steel is not that great, and as we see in Europe as technology advanced, we had thinner and more nimble swords . So it could be those 2 things combined, more sophisticated culture and better steel. Kinda like why Americans prefer big cars that waste a lot of fuel, while Europeans prefer more economic cars
@rhadooxxl
3 жыл бұрын
Might I offer a hypothesis for not trading steel blades from China? The silk road is largely a land route, so while steel is a valuable commodity, it doesn't make sense to me to ship heavy blades or ingots to Europe when you could ship a lot more silk for instance, an exotic item with a much bigger profit margin.
@w0lfgm
3 жыл бұрын
Or there is strategic reason? The European counties forbid export of gold and (war) horses during whole meddle ages... So maybe China didn't allowed export of their swords and/other military equipment.
@dzonbrodi514
3 жыл бұрын
Daft question. People now are super keen to obtain foreign made swords because there is a lot of prestige associated with Samurai swords/Chinese swords etc thanks to a hundred plus years of cultural exchange and movies hyping up Samurai and Kung Fu but a thousand years ago people would just look at them as awkwardly designed swords not ideally adapted to the local fighting styles. Swords would be a very heavy and cumbersome thing to transport and it would make much more sense to transport incense, silk or other fabrics, drugs or other small items, or other things which would be scarce and sought after in far lands. It's not like the Vikings didn't know how to make swords.
@Khanclansith
3 жыл бұрын
While there were clear cases of trade which brought Eastern Chinese (Coastal Sea of China Areas) goods into the hands of the Norse and their communities, I would question the export of main line weapons. As said at the time the Chinese Dynasties viewed their Doa swords as standard issue weapons to Infantry and Calvary from the peasant conscript to the royal generals... I question how willing the Chinese merchants were to trade with foreigners such weapons... Wheren't the Japanese Shrine Daos war trophies?
@tessjuel
3 жыл бұрын
It's the common misconception that there is a continent named Europe and a cotninent named Asia. The fact is that they are two parts of one huge continent in every sense, in culture, etymology, genetics, nature, geography and even geology. That doesn't mean people or nature are the same all over Eurasia of course but there's no sharp distinction but rather a gradual change from east to west and from north to south. People have always migrated and itneracted all across Eurasia so there's nothing really strange about Chinese artifacts in Scandinavia or vice versa. One thing worth noticing about crucible steel in early medieval Scandinavia is that Snorri Sturluson traces the origin of the house of Harald Fairhair to the region by the Caucasian mountains at a time when people in that area certainly knew about Asian crucible steel.
@andypanda4927
3 жыл бұрын
Talking about on foot vs mounted in sword use: is it known when Franks used stirrups? Can't use a spear as a lance very well without bracing in stirrups. Would think using sword from horse challenging to staying balanced ahorse if swinging or thrusting. It would, also, be an evolutionary thing where it changed how things were done... was it the Huns who introduced Europeans to the stirrup?
@curranegan5512
3 жыл бұрын
Super interesting discussion! Particularly in light of the recent discovery of Chinese currency in a medieval English context.
@Hin_Håle
3 жыл бұрын
I think it could just be down to norse honor culture. You may not have been considered much of a "drengr" if you carried a "dainty" foreign sword like that. Even if you wanted to use it, it may invite open ridicule. And then you have to go through the whole ordeal of duelling the guy who gave you scorn, which will end in one of three ways: either you die or he dies or you chicken out and will be known as a coward forever. Just seems like more trouble than it's worth.
@bartsaxton7071
2 жыл бұрын
It seems to me that double edge was considered important to the norse. Which implies they made strikes with it.
@bencoomer2000
3 жыл бұрын
Wonder how much was just, "This is just what a sword should be."
@ghifarakbar8492
3 жыл бұрын
i wonder too, its like chinese: how would you fight with those big sword, you will be too slow, you can not fight with those scandinavian: what is that ? a toothpick ? its too flimsy it will break on the first strike!
@xToddmcx
3 жыл бұрын
I doubt it. I bet if any Chinese swords made it to Scandinavia, or vice versa, they would have tested it out. Presumably they'd then find out, for whatever reason, that the foreign sword is less suited to their application than the domestic sword. They didn't pick a random sword in each place and era, they developed the best sword they could make with the available technology for their use. If the foreign sword was better it would presumably only take a few examples randomly making their way across the world to show them what they should be making, and they would have switched. But they did not.
@jefferyharris4939
3 жыл бұрын
Ok, one or two solitary blades might have the trip to Scandinavia intact, but we're deemed a novelty. But: what if a bladesmith made that same journey? Could the Ulfbert blades have been forged by an ex-pat Chinese smith, struggling to blend crucible steel with local pattern-welded blades? Design-wise, isn't a svaerd resemble two back-to-back dao.....?
@ilejovcevski79
3 жыл бұрын
Can we establish if an Ulfberth blade has been made from a first generation crucible or a recycled blade? Definitely not without a destructive method being employed (which is a big no-no) and only if it would appear that the Ulfberth blades have the similar microstructure properties as the Damascus blades made from the same crucible ingots. Namely, Damascus blades (or at least some of them) are known for presence of linear carbo structures, nano-tubes along side the blade base crystal steel matrix. One of the things that makes them so durable and flexible. But do these structures form only when the crucible is being worked in Damascus way, or also in the Ulfberth way? I can't say, i haven't researched the topic enough i'm afraid. But, if you take a Damascus blade, and re-forge it into another blade, then those structures should be lost in the process of reheating the blade, and later on while battering the steel. Similar to the same process that eliminates slag, when you batter the steel, you force part of the carbon structures out of it, and what remains almost certainly won't preserve the same internal structure. But to answer the original question, we probably need to establish of these structures are present in the Ulfberth and to what extent.
@KirkWilliams300
3 жыл бұрын
When people say RPG min maxing is for those with no life.
@rourkesdrift7614
3 жыл бұрын
You say that swords would have been high status items. This might have limited how far they traveled.
@vladdrakul7851
3 жыл бұрын
Did the VIKINGS use CHINESE Swords???? ONLY IN CONTEXT!!!!!!
@michaelm3691
3 жыл бұрын
The elite wear heavy armor, but what did the masses wear? If regular Chinese just had their clothes while regular Norse wore cloth armor, that could explain the difference.
@TheAurgelmir
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's logical that the swords used evolved together with the battle techniques? I mean the viking era sword is very similar to a spartha in design, and the viking shields as well follow the same family of designs as those that also brought us the roman shields. The viking sword seems to be the logical ecolution of a roman era weapon that evolved into the cutter that the vikings used.
@matthewconner5545
3 жыл бұрын
They’re both essentially sidearms, though, and while they could be pressed into emergency use in a shield wall/block of troops, I question whether the style of battlefield combat is the most significant factor explaining either.
@davidfletcher6703
Жыл бұрын
I believe that they did receive Chinese swords, but they weren't seen as optimal for their needs, so they scrapped them and reforged the steel into blades of their own style
@Fusako8
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting. :) I have a strange request/question. There is a strange sword on Amazong that lists itself as a "Katana" but is a straight, double sided blade with a centered tip. (Search "Shinwa Katana Black Double Edge Black Damascus" to find it. I doubt it is pattern welded, and clearly the pretty red and black pattern is dye) I'm wondering WTF the sword actually is? Were there historical examples of double edged japanese swords in that pattern? What is it most similar to?
@sethc5661
3 жыл бұрын
Probably a combination of many factors, but one of them could also simply be cultural. Perhaps western cultures considered the thinner Chinese blades too dainty, or simply not badass looking enough. It does seem the Vikings were obsessed with looking the part of a badass (intricate hairstyles and tattoos and the like) as well as acting, so perhaps Chinese sword styling simply didn't fit that perception.
@WhatIfBrigade
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting that the Chinese had a couple of distinct sword types during the period, but the Vikings sword was both very specific, yet we don't see other types (ie a design for using without a shield).
@ragamuffin7570
3 жыл бұрын
Could be the Chinese just weren't exporting a significant ammount of steel/ weapons west-ways
@lolasdm6959
3 жыл бұрын
Weapons weren't supposed to be traded by civilians anyways.
@tsmspace
3 жыл бұрын
my two cents,, and it's two arguments. Firstly,, just because ulfbert swords were of such high quality steel, doesn't mean it was commonplace enough to count on it,, therefore the sword design and style of fighting might have been to generally accommodate for lower quality steel as a norm. (not a norman,, just a norm). secondly, well, chinese weapons were designed in a much more populous arena. A few critical things would happen as a result,,, more weapons would have been available overall, therefore more diversity of weapons, and then therefore individuals would practice each weapon type less. their overall skill expectation would be much lower as a general rule. This would be even more true with higher quality steel, as the blades would be sharper, and work more automatically. The dao in the video shares more with an infantry sword from the 1800's than a medieval sword,, and modern swords were used by soldiers who were expected to learn guns. chinese soldiers might have often excelled at weapons skills, however the design of standardized weaponry is often oriented towards both skilled and unskilled users. All of europe during this time was sparsely populated, and much more tribal than china during the same era.
@southpawmoose
3 жыл бұрын
Question, for someone getting into Hema, who you recommend study of older systems like long sword first or newer system somthing like saber? Or should i follow the japanese and Chinese tradition and learn quarterstaff first?
@jiroumochizuki
3 жыл бұрын
..... I've only really studied Joachim Meyer, and I:33 (1:33, O:33, Walpurgis manuscript, Tower Fight book.... It has a lot of names.) So, I can't tell you for sure what's best to start with. That being said Long sword seems to be the easiest to find people to practice with. (At least around here.)
@dwightehowell8179
3 жыл бұрын
There is an ore deposits in the middle east that when smelted produces real Damascus/uthbert Steel. We know they were mined. There is video about in on Utube.
@johnyricco1220
3 жыл бұрын
I suspect dealing with shield wall required a sturdier sword design. The Chinese sword is more optimized to penetrate the gaps of lamellar armor.
@craigbutcher860
3 жыл бұрын
I tend to agree that it has to do with the battle formations that were being faced and more specifically the theories on how to deal with those formations. I can think of 2 different ways to deal with shield walls; 1. Bashing through which would explain the weight distribution of the "viking" sword, or 2. Trying to thrust into gaps to hit the targets behind the shields which could explain the thrusting tip and slightly shorter length of the Chinese swords. In conclusion, even though the people might be facing similar situations and problems the solutions might be different and the tools required to make the solution work would be specialized towards THAT solution.
@possumsam2189
3 жыл бұрын
To put into context, the primary opponents that the Chinese were facing at the time were the Gokturks/Uyghur/Karluks/Tarim Basin Oasis states/Dali Kingdom & the Tibetans. The Tibetan empire by itself were already well-known to have chainmail as standard-issue for their troops and used massive shield-walls/formations/columns in combat with the Tang. To say the Tang sword is less sturdy than Viking-era European swords against shield walls or chainmail is inaccurate, considering the opponents they have to fight.
@JohnDoe-wy8ft
3 жыл бұрын
It's not so crazy. Red haired mummies have been found in the Tarim Basin in China and the natives of the Japanese islands also had red hair (Ainu peoples).
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