These are both "performance machines" but the performance of a truck like this isn't measured by 0-60 time but by the load it can haul and/or the trailer it can tow.
@davidfromamerica1871
2 жыл бұрын
EV trucks will be when you see the diesel fuel pump. $20.00 a gallon plus $8.00 a gallon carbon tax. The closest diesel pump is 1200 plus miles away.
@leanlifter1
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidfromamerica1871 If that is the case then electricity pricing will sky rocket anywhere the electric vehicles are in use. Is all just moving goal posts to make electric seem like it's the natural now cost effective easier way to go which it is not and better than the alternative which it is also not. Electricity is not free or cheap and if it was then these pipe dreams of electric vehicles would actually be what they said lol. Most people that bought an electric vehicle are selling them because they are not what they seem and electricity to run them is very very expensive. Imagine running your cloths dryer every night all night long when you are sleeping now Imagen how many extra hundreds of dollars a month on electricity your bill WILL go up and up and up and it will never get cheaper. Hybrid electric motor to assist the primary ICE motor and ICE motor to keep the battery pack charged up is a better more realistic option. If a person can develop zero point energy then Electric would be the way to go.
@MrPabsUk
2 жыл бұрын
@@leanlifter1 "Most people that bought an electric vehicle are selling them because they are not what they seem" .... Really? Where`d you get those statistics? "Electricity is not free or cheap" "your bill WILL go up and up and up and it will never get cheaper." ...... And diesel/gas is cheap? Not sure if you`ve noticed the prices going up more & more over time, & everyone with EV`s are saying "fueling" costs are massively reduced with EV`s, as well as servicing & maintenance being almost non existent. Those savings are even more significant when using commercial vehicles like this. "If a person can develop zero point energy then Electric would be the way to go"... Both solar & wind generators are fairly common, You could then be entirely self sufficient if you have the room.
@destineennicholasgallagher3315
2 жыл бұрын
My hubby is a Billy big rigger heavy hauler in a Kenworth , pushing over 600 hp and that thing does real work
@AlineaEuros
2 жыл бұрын
@@leanlifter1 this can only literally happen with government interference, if you were to allow the free market, things wouldn't be getting dire for diesel like in your prediction.
@reallyemptypockets6509
2 жыл бұрын
I drove a oxygen delivery truck in for 10 years, Chevy box truck with about 10,000 lbs. my route was in one suburb 5 days a week, less than 50 miles a day 8-12 hours. I could see an EV doing great on this specific route. I ran a 454 with automatic, the engine never broke down, but numerous starters, alternators, and the a/c was constantly getting fixed, I got 6 mpg.
@sketchyssk8shop
2 жыл бұрын
You had a gas burner. Should have used a diesel
@f1y7rap
2 жыл бұрын
This is specifically the sort of use-case that EV can do well at. A known, reliable, regular route
@billybobbob3003
2 жыл бұрын
lol the range is absolutely pathetic on this thing, if u loaded this up with anything the range would be cut down to like 60-70 miles or more lmao, electric vehicles=toys just like electric mowers=toys
@petenelson8136
2 жыл бұрын
You could buy 3 diesel trucks for the price of 1 EV truck, so you have to factor that into any equations you do regarding the practicality of the vehicle.
@mattbrew11
2 жыл бұрын
@@billybobbob3003 that range is at max load. They do not and have no reason to rate them unladed these aren’t cars
@erichwise7734
2 жыл бұрын
It makes a lot of sense to use the ev where it shines and the diesel where it shines. People get stuck in their ideologies but really, things like school bus routes and local delivery are great use cases and use the diesels where the ev's make less sense.
@peterad1529
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly you took the words out of my mouth I’m tired of the extremes this would be perfect for so many applications, but not every application and that’s ok.
@JHuffPhoto
2 жыл бұрын
Yes and the same is true of any EV. Not all use cases make sense. For me and my pre-COVID use case having an EV made perfect sense because I was saving around $200/month in energy costs plus an additional savings in maintenance. However I was only driving about 100 miles/day on my commute. I also had a charger installed in my garage so I could charge overnight and get the lower rates at my house vs a L3 charging station. I have only had to use a Supercharger a handful of times and that was mostly just to see how they worked. I can't tow my boat with my EV and if I am taking a long trip with all of my stuff I tend to take my pickup truck even though it will cost me more in fuel and in maintenance. To me it is worth the extra costs to save the time and to be more comfy. It really is a matter of using the right tool for the job.
@shanes481
2 жыл бұрын
They just passed a several million dollar bond in my small town to replace the school buses. Would love to hear them propose a 3x the cost same bond so they can go "green".
@derekk6906
2 жыл бұрын
No School today Kids, power outage last night and it wasn't restored in time to charge the buses.
@erichwise7734
2 жыл бұрын
@@JHuffPhoto Same, have a Chevy Bolt for commute and a 99 suburban for, well, everything else. Right tool for the job.
@cujet
2 жыл бұрын
I just drove a Cummins powered 26 foot moving truck 1300 miles. Took me 2 days. I achieved 10.3mpg at 65-70 mph depending on the speed limit. Each tank of fuel had just over 600 mile range. An EV would require a 900KWh battery to achieve just 300 mile range under the same conditions. Leaving ZERO payload. EV's can't do that job.
@Map71Vette
2 жыл бұрын
As with any EV, there are always going to be applications that they just don't suit yet. High mile and high speed is pretty much exactly the one that EVs can't do yet. Drayage style duty and small point to point stuff is perfect for them though.
@cujet
2 жыл бұрын
@@Map71Vette The EV will never be able to do real work. Lithium is the most active metal (for batteries) and only has so many ions to move. There is no "magic battery" coming. Electrochemical energy storage has finite limits.
@Map71Vette
2 жыл бұрын
@@cujet I don't entirely disagree, but I also design industrial trucks that move 100,000+ lbs using an EV drivetrain just fine. It comes down to your definition of "work". Long haul with maximum legal road loads is a use case I would agree EVs will have a very hard ever meeting. Pulling 120,000 lbs across a port from a container ship to a stack all day is one they are actually reasonably well suited for.
@tallll70
2 жыл бұрын
i agree, it's not about the diesel vs electric motor, it's about how flexible today the electric could be
@jtabt5146
Жыл бұрын
So right on
@Species-lj8wh
2 жыл бұрын
It's nice to see International trying to enter the EV space. With the limitations they could have just said. "its not feasible." But they did what they could for a specific use cases. School buses, fire trucks, City freight. Very nice.
@TKevinBlanc
2 жыл бұрын
Build what you can until batteries and the infrastructure approve.
@ocrapo9327
2 жыл бұрын
It's gonna be about hydrogen in the future.
@gungadinn
2 жыл бұрын
I'd hate to have a EV as a fire truck. Even the smallest firetrucks have to be able to operate as a pump truck. I'm sure at some point that a electric water pump will be available to transfer water and provide enough pressure to fight a fire. Good platform as the school bus, package delivery and as a ambulance. The smell of diesel fuel and the exhaust fumes are common complaints patients.
@RonaldPlett
2 жыл бұрын
Well they kinda have to go electric cause their engines break down all day
@gungadinn
2 жыл бұрын
@@RonaldPlett The 6.7 Cummins is probably the most reliable small diesel available. Much simpler to work on than the 6.7 Ford.
@jessewalter8738
2 жыл бұрын
My employer used box cab/chassis with 24 foot vans for our warehouse to HQ trips. Our IH's averaged about 50 miles a day, perfect for this truck.
@seraphimsscythe1628
2 жыл бұрын
And when it's time for "Battery Replacement" the real cost both out of pocket and Environmentally, become apparent.
@davidmccarthy6061
2 жыл бұрын
The battery will outlast the truck, then go on to live in an energy storage system for a few more years, and then is completely recycled to recover the materials to make new batteries.
@seraphimsscythe1628
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidmccarthy6061 I've heard that myth about the battery outlasting the vehicle. Still haven't seen that happen yet. Batteries are not 100% recyclable unless you've personally figure out how to recycle the most environmentally damaging and toxic parts of it. We'll run out of Lithium before we run out of oil. Gigantic holes from strip mining are cool.
@andrewdiamond2697
2 жыл бұрын
@@seraphimsscythe1628 You've never seen a lithium mine except in a meme that shows photos of copper mines, obviously.
@seraphimsscythe1628
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewdiamond2697 You're asinine assumption and parroted rhetoric are noted. "Seen in a Meme." Sure kiddo. You keep regurgitating that trained line. You must hear that "bell" 24/7.
@andrewdiamond2697
2 жыл бұрын
@@seraphimsscythe1628 You're right. They are closer to 90% recyclable.
@ThenewguyYT
2 жыл бұрын
I think going Diesel-Electric hybrid woiuld be much more practical than full electric. They can get full electric to work, but definitely cant be anything more than local freight
@tedbaxter5234
2 жыл бұрын
Hybrids have two independent systems with all the maintenance and possibilities for breakdown. I’d choose one or the other but never both.
@9ZweihandeR9
2 жыл бұрын
@@tedbaxter5234 I wonder if it could still be more reliable if the diesel is just used as a generator instead of driving the axle and being assisted by an electric motor. The diesel wouldn't be subjected to the varying loadings and rpm changes needed to drive the axles, and electric motors are very reliable. The combined breakdown rate of the two systems might be less than the breakdown rate of a diesel engine.
@nirodper
2 жыл бұрын
@@9ZweihandeR9 there are hybrid busses and they work very well
@adrianviera4239
2 жыл бұрын
Europe has lots of Diesel-Hybrid for buses and works very well. Super quiet and comfortable.
@lostinspace699
2 жыл бұрын
Nothing green about it .. all the stuff to make it Paint wire and so on .Like Renewables No such thing it requires Energy to make and lots of it ,Plastic's for insulations From oil ... No, Phones,, The big Lie ...Australia ..
@foellerd
2 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad Andre got his trucking license so we can watch him review cool trucks like this. So much fun 😁 Nice work Andre!
@MickeyR6
2 жыл бұрын
Last time I remember he never got his class A. It was too much time consuming. Kent on the other hand does have his class A. That's why he always drives anytime they are towing over 26,001 Lbs
@NickOvchinnikov
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, depends where you are. No special license to drive anything privately here
@CarsTrucksWhatever
2 жыл бұрын
Because Kent is full of it he probably just has his CDL for show
@The101Point1
2 жыл бұрын
The comment makes no sense for this these are under 26,000 lb GVW truck so you don't need a commercial license
@jaysmith1408
2 жыл бұрын
@@The101Point1 the electric was rated at 33k
@BlueDually4x4
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate Andre doing these kinds of videos, but its clear how little most people know about how commercial trucks function. Regen braking would require no driver adjustment because it works the same as engine braking, you take your foot off the accelerator and the truck slows down. It even has three levels, just like engine brakes do, the only difference is you recharge the batteries instead of just slow down. It is that simple. If you paid attention at 12:13 he says the range is based on the truck being loaded at 28,000 pounds. Not empty like the Ford Lightning or the Hummer or the Tesla. Is that a huge range, no, but school buses, trash trucks, local deliver or city trucks would likely be fine. The reason no one has redesigned a commercial truck from the ground up to be EV is because there is no need waste the time doing it, when the chassis is designed to be openly configurable as it is. Everything on the EV is easily serviced just like the diesel, there is no reason to change that. By sticking with a standard truck chassis, you can easily bolt anything to it that bolts to the diesel truck meaning International's customers can use truck bodies and equipment they already have. And lastly if you ran it completely out of power you would call a tow truck, just like you would if the engine quit working. Big tow trucks also have air brakes and you would hook the tow truck's air system up to the EV truck the same way you would a diesel truck with a blown engine.
@gregcavanaugh6259
2 жыл бұрын
actually if you'd pay attention, the Lightning's range was based on something like 1000 lbs of payload, not empty.
@BlueDually4x4
2 жыл бұрын
@@gregcavanaugh6259 so three or four dudes and a cooler, boy that really makes a difference. That is totally comparable to a truck loaded to within 4k pounds of it's maximum weight.
@andrewdiamond2697
2 жыл бұрын
Jake Regen
@ilovecops5499
2 жыл бұрын
Electric batteris work great in the winter an dlots of water and ice!
@keithqueen3554
2 жыл бұрын
I retired from state of PA transportation. They bought two electric trucks to run deliveries they are both gone now.🤣😅
@figifister
2 жыл бұрын
TFLT love the content. Although I really wish you guys would have asked a more practical question to International. Maybe you know the answer...how much energy (practically speaking in miles depleted) is used on a hot day when your sitting running the A/c waiting to be unloaded or stuck in traffic? That's a big question in my opinion. What about making a range extender option coming in the future? That is the future in my opinion. A small 4cyl running a power generator. To be able to run 500-700miles
@michaelmcnulty8785
Жыл бұрын
I had a Tesla rental last week for work. Sat in a parking lot for 2 hours running the AC and radio waiting for a meeting. Range only dropped a couple miles. It’s surprisingly little energy loss.
@Jaredog2006
Жыл бұрын
Wow
@380.motorsports
2 жыл бұрын
Saw a lot of little things as your camera went around the truck that tell me this was a very early design model or even a prototype vehicle. Lots of connections and modules that are not very well protected as a full production vehicle would be. The battery conditioning box hanging off the side and pretty exposed did not look refined. The high voltage cables hanging below the chassis and not covered is not very refined. Looks like they got more work to do before selling this as a production vehicle. Either that or they should expect a lot of warranty returns!
@AkiraKigRace
2 жыл бұрын
It’s is International they just make trucks to breakdown and buy their parts ….
@rohinhans7819
2 жыл бұрын
Clearly you haven’t worked on many vehicles. Having exposed wiring and such is very common. Only notes that come to mind that don’t are German cars
@lightningstrikestwice6302
2 жыл бұрын
@@rohinhans7819 yeah, you're correct, He's so smart maybe he should have been the engineer! If they covered everything the way he wanted it then he'd be complaining about that! I worked on heavy duty trucks for 42 years. Everything is a compromise! Computers and related wiring harnesses are surprisingly robust. It's never perfect. What is?
@rohinhans7819
2 жыл бұрын
@@lightningstrikestwice6302 I am a currently in school for engineering and yes, seems almost everything is a compromise in terms of design
@icemike1
2 жыл бұрын
I noticed the cables
@AlarakTheHighLord
2 жыл бұрын
The EV is wonderful for around town and in the yard but for long hauls definitely diesel all day
@jloop_2008
2 жыл бұрын
I'm a lineman and we work in extreme weather a lot. I am curious to see how these electric trucks hold up in that kind of climate.
@samtuck6400
2 жыл бұрын
speaking from experience in Alaska with electric buses they don't work well at all in the winter.
@KyleSaucedo
2 жыл бұрын
And how they’ll pull a real trailer …
@jloop_2008
2 жыл бұрын
@@samtuck6400 I'm here in Colorado and it has drastic temperature changes. I had a feeling they wouldn't hold up well in that type of work.
@charliekk3377
2 жыл бұрын
Supposedly they don't work in real hot or real cold weather very well
@Krieghandt
2 жыл бұрын
@@KyleSaucedo electric motors dominate in trailer pulling. The most efficient range on an electric motor is just above 0. That is where the most power is as well. Now, if you are pulling while red lining, then you need an ICE. There is a reason no one is talking about electric bulldozers, even though mines have been using hybrids for decades.
@taurus600
Жыл бұрын
I want to drive it, just one time. Then I'm almost certain I'll be tired of it and want back in a diesel. Electric is fun, but the fun fades quickly to me. Internal combustion is just the only way for me
@danielfrain3521
2 жыл бұрын
Love how they say "in theory." In theory it should do this but it doesn't in actual practice.
@AkioWasRight
2 жыл бұрын
In theory, it's 125 or 135 or so miles of range. But that's at a full charge. Like any EV, you'll want to avoid full charged and full discharged, because it'll wear out the batter. So, realistically, your mile of range will more in the territory of 80 miles, and that's under ideal conditions. In snow, on a hot day, going up and down hills, with a full load, even 80 miles will be optimistic.
@icarusfarmsWV
2 жыл бұрын
I'm skeptical when it comes to the financial viability on this, it just doesn't add up unless I'm missing something. The diesel truck should get ~8mpg, at $5.50/gal that comes out to $0.68/mile. On the EMV you stated that a level 2 charger would cost ~$50 for a full charge with a range of 135 miles, that comes out to $0.37/mile, clearly better but with the huge caveat that it will take overnight charging to refill the batteries so it is a once a day usage. With level 3 charging the time gets reduced to the stated 90 minutes in the video (still a long time compared to the 3 minutes to refuel with a high-flow diesel pump) but at an average of $0.50/kwh charge for use of the charger this comes out to $0.77/mile, higher than the diesel cost of operation. Now factor in the 3x sticker price and there is little to no business case that can be made for one of these trucks outside of a green metric for the company purchasing the vehicle...
@geoffrust6787
2 жыл бұрын
Your numbers do not include maintenance. The Ev has essentially zero where the Diesel has continuous.
@icarusfarmsWV
2 жыл бұрын
@@geoffrust6787 International states that their trucks need oil changes every 25k miles with an average cost of ~$300, so add a penny a mile, that is still 8 cents cheaper a mile versus level 3 charging. Add another penny for DEF and even another 2-3 for other random stuff (not really necessary under 100k miles) and it is still cheaper. The maintenance boogieman in modern engines doesn't appear until much later in life, the same will be the case for the electric versions...
@ford1chevy2dodge3
2 жыл бұрын
@@geoffrust6787 Batteries need to be replaced every 10 to 20 years in non commercial vehicles. This thing is 4 times as heavy..... and will be driven as a job, not a leisure.... those batteries are not cheap
@silentbravo
2 жыл бұрын
@@ford1chevy2dodge3 Even assuming the battery pack goes for 10 years, will International still support the platform when they wear out? Unless batteries get much much cheaper, it's going to be a huge cost to replace them. So anything saved on maintenance costs over time is going to add up to one big fat expense when the battery is due up for a change. You are already 2.5x the initial buy in cost to start with lol... how much maintenance will that buy you over X amount of years in service... probably a LOT. There are certainly some nice benefits of EV.. but cost wise (among other things) they aren't realistically better at this point in time.
@ford1chevy2dodge3
2 жыл бұрын
@@silentbravo EV's arent ready yet. They are the future for sure. No argument there. They just don't make sense for everyone right now. Takes too long to charge. Range when towing is hot garbage. They're more expensive. Oh and if everyone dropped everything to have an EV, the power grid couldn't handle it
@gidderman
2 жыл бұрын
It will be interesting to see how they cope with winter, and salty environments. Sounds like the motor drive units need better balancing as well, you could hear quite a terrrible vibration in the video as you climbed in speed... Neat video overall
@Viccus476
2 жыл бұрын
Another great video. Thank you. Here’s the most important question, with that dump bed, what is the payload? Batteries are heavy. If all your payload is eaten by batteries than this is another fail for EV
@dsauce8780
2 жыл бұрын
Also would like to know what happens to the range with an actual payload.
@Viccus476
2 жыл бұрын
@@dsauce8780 That’s the most important question.
@jpe1
2 жыл бұрын
@@dsauce8780 the quoted range is for being loaded at 28,000 pounds
@dsauce8780
2 жыл бұрын
@@jpe1 lot of manufacturers put out load range ratings that have proven to be completely false. On this channel they have shown that. We’ll see how this plays out in real applications. I think local EV is great ferrr the record (but if the diesel version can carry more payload with less down time and less annual maintenance costs it’s not going to last. A battery that doesn’t lose range each charging cycle would be a start. Then a battery that doesn’t go up like a magnesium firework when it’s pierced will seal the deal)
@volvo09
2 жыл бұрын
It's a special use vehicle.... It is not intended to replace the diesel lineup. For instance, I watched a repair shop video where they put a 4th engine in an airport tug truck because it sits and idles all day, and never hits public roads so the DPF cannot regenerate properly. This would be a perfect use for an electric truck, not to replace a long distance hauler.
@awfab3517
2 жыл бұрын
I dont think its tuned down so cargo wont fly off the back. 19 seconds is still slow. 10 seconds would still be slow but way better. Its tuned down to get every bit of range into it.
@regularpit1508
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if that and they don't want to pull to many amps from the batteries since it's got a Lifepo4 battery system.
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
Higher power wouldn't hurt range. Whatever they say about programming, the motor is just selected for power comparable to the diesel, because a larger motor (and the larger inverter needed to go with it) is both unnecessary and more expensive.
@marsmars9130
2 жыл бұрын
I love how they keep blowing up, more and more as people try to use them, to findout how explosive and toxic they are, Some guy lost his hole warehouse when it blew up, and burned everything down, after the fire was put out the truck batteries where still burning, and a few firefighters had to be put in hospital for lung issues
@angelgjr1999
2 жыл бұрын
Battery fires are different in the way to out them out.
@marsmars9130
2 жыл бұрын
@@angelgjr1999 your flag is very telling
@angelgjr1999
2 жыл бұрын
@@marsmars9130 In support of the people fighting for freedom from the Russian invaders.
@neilduncan8657
2 жыл бұрын
yet as a percentage when compared to capita ...gas vehicles burn more often some gas cars have caught on fire when off leading to recalls....see ford and kia
@Hybris51129
2 жыл бұрын
It's pretty niche to be honest and at $250k vs $70 for a stock cab/chassis the up front cost is a barrier. For a business owner you would also have to factor in having to install charging stations and be prepared to also maintain some Diesel rigs for jobs that run outside of the safe ranges of the EV. Otherwise you might have turn down work because "my trucks can't get there." or you have rent what you need which adds extra costs. In applications like tow trucks or boom lift trucks where you have a lot of high draw aftermarket equipment to power I don't see how practical a setup like this would be without reducing the allowed range or having maybe a diesel truck with a generator set on the back or a towed generator that can be brought in for support on longer jobs. School buses are probably your best bet for entering the market because their constant breaking, well known short routes, and time in between uses would allow for charging at the depot.
@JPTech933
2 жыл бұрын
Agree, our city busses here in Montreal are estimated to be priced at a million a piece Canadian (around 800k usd) each. A great idea, but who will pay for all that!? Yes the electricity here is dirt cheap, so great for Leaf and Tesla owners. But I'm not sure about EV busses and trucks that cost a lot. I imagine that Asian companies will start producing these vehicles and offering them at a bargain..
@Antonyg2100
2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree, with a PTO setup it wouldnt make much sense. That would drain the battery very quickly. I drive a 2020 MV with a service bed with fluid tanks. My truck also has PTO to power air compressor and other pumps. It basically has to idle my whole shift. For that I dont see it working. But for local delivery might work. One thing I didnt hear them talk about the weight of the EV model. My truck is 29k pounds, I cant imagine adding all those heavy batteries.
@egg-roll8968
2 жыл бұрын
@@JPTech933 You should check out the normal busses costs for us Canadians lol... They are as cheap as 500K but not the 40 ft units most want, those go for upwards to 750K esp once you account for hybrid systems etc (tho currency and inflation may have changed this). I do agree with the pricing for EVs however, even Tesla hasn't been able to keep a steady number for their own production lineup. Till we see a steady price for them I can't say everyone will be driving one as not everyone can afford their prices. Tho I should also mention I still laugh at anyone who thinks they'll also get the MPG rating displayed on any vehicles windshield. Also since all transit systems are publicly ran here you can easily find out how much their fleet procurement is on their yearly spending reports that some agency shadily hide from view as much as possible...
@lumberjackdreamer6267
2 жыл бұрын
Overall it cost far less to produce an EV. But the initial price is high because of RD and tooling.
@jerredwayne8401
2 жыл бұрын
@@lumberjackdreamer6267 you think it costs less to produce an ev? I don't see that being the case at all
@87fordmustang
2 жыл бұрын
Does the maintenance cost include replacing the batteries? Many of us have recently read about the Ford focus that has a $14,000 replacement cost (realistically much more since you can't actually purchase them any more). I imagine these batteries are significantly higher in cost. Also, electricity prices are cheap.... for now. Just wait until they "necessarily sky-rocket" so we can make the switch to the unreliable wind and solar forms of electricity. If people truly want EVs to replace combustion engines, they must support Nuclear energy. Keep in mind, actually replacing all combustion engine vehicles is several decades away, probably at least a century.
@seanthe100
2 жыл бұрын
I've never heard of a Ford focus ev, I think you mean Cmax winch isn't even a full EV just a hybrid...
@KevinKimmich44024
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if reality is ever going to step in front of the push to switch to EVs. The US consumes 13 million barrels of oil per day for transportation fuel. Back of the envelope calculation shows that's the equivalent of 700 nuclear power plants output. The last two nuclear reactor projects in the US (Georgia and South Carolina) bankrupted Westinghouse in 2017. 50% of nuclear reactors ever ordered in the US were cancelled due to cost overruns. It takes 10-15 years to build one plant. So maybe, if the US dedicated huge investment in nuclear we could build 2 plants every 10 years or something like that. If every solar panel installed in the US is dedicated to vehicle charging it will take decades to replace the power provided by fossil fuels for transportation, and there will be solar panels everywhere.
@ikemen1
2 жыл бұрын
@@KevinKimmich44024 Lol, most solar panels and lithium batteries are made in China.. Lol, Crazy.. Smart move America!
@kramnull8962
2 жыл бұрын
@@KevinKimmich44024 The government doesn't mind inconvenience. The taxpayers are gonna pay for it anyways... Not the businesses or the government.
@bertgrau3934
2 жыл бұрын
87fordmustang, You make some great points, except, California, Washington, and New York want ALL diesel engines gone out of those states by 2035, that's only 13 years from now. If I lived in any of those states I would move now. ( I am thankful I don't live I any of those states) those folks will wind up starving, or worse.
@danielrand5896
2 жыл бұрын
No one mentions how fast “fast chargers” ruin batteries.
@Raidersforlife229
2 жыл бұрын
They will never admit to it .
@davidmccarthy6061
2 жыл бұрын
Probably because they don't? That's up to the engineers to balance the vehicle use case with the expected charging requirements.
@awjelfs5034
2 жыл бұрын
It depends on the battery chemistry but i am sure thats above your pay grade.
@BruceLee-xn3nn
2 жыл бұрын
Ive used electric powered heavy equipment at work for 20 years. When it's on fast charge you can literally feel the current flowing through. If something goes bad cable gets so hot it'll burn your hand if you hold it.
@StefanoFinocchiaro
2 жыл бұрын
125kw in 200kwh + it's actually very slow
@killer88901
2 жыл бұрын
Another option would also be the that the companies with contracts can put chargers at unloading locations and charge while unloading. Just put a meter on the charger and pay the delivery place for the electricity used.
@aslkdfjhg
2 жыл бұрын
Stop and go traffic these are perfect. So much quieter and nicer for the driver
@zachanderson963
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting that they are using lithium iron phosphate. Those batteries should last forever.
@gheorghibaractari7489
2 жыл бұрын
Cheaper to fill/charge - until the demand will drive up the electricity cost and also the much needed taxes for roads are slapped. Cheaper to maintain - until the battery packs need replacement. Not to mention the double/triple initial price tag. And so on. As much as I like and support this new technology I think that all the downsides should be identified, analyzed and weighed against the pros, before creating a hype around a certain product and pushing entire nations to adopt it. People stopped using their critical thinking(on purpose maybe). It's sad. Nothing against TFL, you guys are putting some good information out there.
@thomgt4
2 жыл бұрын
On the battery replacement; a: very few vehicles need a replacement in their life. A lot fewer batteries need replacement vs ICE engines needing replacement (normalized for vehicles on the road). B: said ICE engine replacement is about as expensive as a battery replacement
@jorgemanso521
2 жыл бұрын
The first comment I read and it said it all...
@glennhutchinson9049
2 жыл бұрын
@@thomgt4 A single battery replacement for a small passenger car is between $14 and $16 thousand dollars; This thing has five of them! You need to take some math lessons, at a quarter of a million dollars up front people will expect much more than 7-8 years of service from this truck before putting it out to pasture! People who invest in these trucks will probably be forced to go bankrupt when their investment hasn't been recouped upon the failure of the vehicle!
@glennhutchinson9049
2 жыл бұрын
@@jorgemanso521 You could replace two or three ICE for the price of one battery, this truck has 5 of them and considering that a modern diesel engine will often last for 250,000- 300,000 miles before it needs to be refreshed, not replaced you guys have no argument here!
@jorgemanso521
2 жыл бұрын
@@glennhutchinson9049 I am not for electric trucks...
@paullupton8553
Жыл бұрын
These are all excellent discussions. My background is in forklifts where electric-powered fork trucks have been around for decades. The real focus here needs to be the application. Like forklifts, sometimes an IC-powered unit is better, sometimes not. The focus of these trucks needs to be interurban deliveries, short distances, and lots of stop-and-start driving. That application is the hardest on IC trucks when fuel consumption, brakes, and transmission wear are considered. The bottom line is the application needs to dictate the equipment. When done correctly, the EV will outperform the diesel. Another thing to consider: the cost of the EV includes a HUGE part of the fuel cost upfront...in the battery. If this vehicle is financed, the battery ("fuel") cost is spread over the term of the financing. If the cost of the diesel fuel used during the same period, less the cost of charging as was noted, it would be interesting to see where the numbers would end up. No one ever breaks that out but would be good to see it. That would make the comparison more on an equal level.
@ForbiddTV
2 жыл бұрын
A key factor you conveniently left out, your range loaded will be reduced significantly than the figure you gave with no load.
@daveh2612
2 жыл бұрын
He gave the range based on being loaded at 28,000 lbs if you were paying attention
@cliffcollins4124
2 жыл бұрын
The point that I was wanting to here talked about was the expected life of the battery, details that I have seen is the battery life,, shortens by use and the number of charges,, but begins to loose range noticeably at around 4/5 years, and is normally up for replacement in 7 years. The cost of which far, far exceeds the cost of diesel used for similar mileage, and maintenance of that engine in that period. And nothing was said about destruction of the old battery.
@mountainsriversandtrees1474
2 жыл бұрын
THIS!! ☝☝☝
@HansSchulze
2 жыл бұрын
Science isn't standing still. 2022 is the year of the most ever weekly announcements of new tech. 10x cheaper batteries (LiIon, most expensive ones). And safer. There are BEV cars that have exceeded 1M miles. I have 50k miles, 4 years, and still >90% capacity.
@jeffpitoniak
2 жыл бұрын
In china, most cars that use lfp batteries have a lifetime warranty. outside of China they supposedly give 5-7 years.
@ellau5850
2 жыл бұрын
EV is more a toy car for the rich like a huge I phone. It is dangerous because it can burn itself and burn the surrounding cars and houses. Be very careful if you park your car next to EV
@HansSchulze
2 жыл бұрын
@@ellau5850 how many times have EVs burnt vs gas stations and gas vehicles? Sadly gas fires are common. We just don't read about it cause it's boringly common. I've seen in person people burning to a crisp inside an ICE car.
@OmarSpence
2 жыл бұрын
Short distance use in cities is perfect for electric. Less wear and tear and no blowing money out your exhaust in traffic
@birddogz545
2 жыл бұрын
Our pickup and delivery truck that is used around metro Atlanta runs 8 hours a day and covers over 200 miles. This electric truck wouldn't make a half of a day before it was dead on the side of the road. There has to be a massive increase in range before it's ready for primetime.
@robertryan7204
2 жыл бұрын
That is what these trucks would be doing short trips around the City
@davidharris9077
2 жыл бұрын
As an OTR Trucker, I would think that longevity would be the major concern (cost per year to operate) for most trucking companies for electric trucks. At the company where I work, we keep trucks until they have somewhere between 850k - 1 million miles for OTR and then local until they hit 10 years old. These are general miles depending upon how much repair dollars are used to keep a specific truck rolling. I'm not sure how the cost of fuel would factor in, regardless, until the range of a fully loaded truck exceeds 650 miles, electric trucks would only be practical for local P&D.
@JHuffPhoto
2 жыл бұрын
They will need to get the price more inline to be competitive with this
@nlpnt
2 жыл бұрын
New tech is always expensive.
@verttikoo2052
2 жыл бұрын
Running costs with the EV are about 40% less.
@Krieghandt
2 жыл бұрын
true dis. up front costs always count for more than invisible savings.
@verttikoo2052
2 жыл бұрын
@@Krieghandt Fleets don’t buy these. They rent or lease.
@verttikoo2052
2 жыл бұрын
@@Krieghandt Also what is the resale value.
@Maybe1Someday
2 жыл бұрын
135 mile range and that's when it is new? I thought we were close to having all electric everything.
@robertryan7204
2 жыл бұрын
Yes you're not getting much mileage
@openlyracist8055
2 жыл бұрын
I need to see a price comparison based on the diesel's range to see if the ev is actually viable
@zenofthemoment
2 жыл бұрын
Something I haven't seen in this conversation is hours of service issues. This alone, for me, makes EVs 150mi range maximum vehicles. Otherwise, you're shut down for your 10hr break while it charges, and you sure aren't running 11/14 on a single charge, meaning less miles and either less pay, or higher cpm pay to make it up, leading to a significant increase in cost to ship. I'm all for EVs, but barring a sea change in power density and battery weight, it really is looking more and more like local trucks are the biggest beneficiaries of the new tech.
@hdj81Vlimited
2 жыл бұрын
AND how many houres you have to wait on the fuel-station? You think there is ONLY 1 electric truck that wants to charge???????? electric cars are useless if you can not drive it for 600 miles in 1 day........
@theupscriber65
2 жыл бұрын
He said 90 minutes to charge.
@davidp2707
2 жыл бұрын
Yep well it's that or swapable battery packs. My money is on hydrogen for OTR
@Standup428
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidp2707 🎯👍
@Standup428
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidp2707 the problem with swappable packs is swapping stations, the added weight if your not using stations, and those batteries are just too expensive.
@coytus94
2 жыл бұрын
As of right now it depends on your application. If you tend to stay local and not drive very long distances than the ev will benefit you greatly vs a diesel. If you go cross country or do very long trips on a daily basis then an EV may not be quite as beneficial due to the more limited range and longer more consistent charging times, so a diesel might be the better option in that case. The battery and charging tech isn't quite the best yet to completely replace gas/diesel for long distance travelers, but with how far it has come in such a short time it'll be a small matter of time before it improves to the point where it can.
@bpoole73
2 жыл бұрын
I drive an all electric Peterbilt. I can say it's fun to drive and it's pulls extremely good.
@tazeat
2 жыл бұрын
Fun to see! Every time they show an aspect of the truck, I imagine areas of improvements in aero, drivetrain, pack density, and size. These will only get better and more efficient over time. I like that even with electric, it looks highly serviceable. With LFP packs, these may have a very long lifetime too if you keep the frame and suspension maintained, we'll just have to see.
@kirkslayden834
2 жыл бұрын
The batteries have two short of a lifespan they haven't fixed that right yet they need more research
@jpe1
2 жыл бұрын
@@kirkslayden834 I've been using LFP batteries in my race car for 8 years now, hundreds of duty cycles, and racing is about the most abusive thing for batteries, and the batteries have about 95% of their original capacity. So no, the lifespan isn't "too short."
@frederickbooth7970
2 жыл бұрын
@@jpe1 What kind of racing do you participate in? Interesting that you`re using BEV.
@georgiadronefootage4136
2 жыл бұрын
@@frederickbooth7970 he races to the next charging station. 🤣
@teklife
2 жыл бұрын
@@kirkslayden834 how do you know that these batteries have a "two short" of a lifespan?
@texastriguy
2 жыл бұрын
SO much more efficiency to be had in these vehicles. 135 miles from a 210kwhr pack is extremely poor even for this vehicle weight. Lots of optimizations needed in aero here.
@jackbarry9469
2 жыл бұрын
The heavier you are and the more you have accel decel the less aero matters. Trucks like this are not the same as long haul trucks its a different load demand so aero is a part of it but not as much as you might think
@ramblingman8992
2 жыл бұрын
Just wondering what the range would be if they linked that motor to an Allison autobox.
@comethiburs2326
2 жыл бұрын
@@ramblingman8992 nothing. the autobox is there to compensate for the narrow rpm range of a truck and keeping it at peak torque for maximum effiency. now an electric block? imagine a semi doing 15000 rpm. same thing, but the pistons arent visiting mars cuz there's none (it's an hyperbole). EV's with gearboxes are non reversible polarity types and that boils down to 1 gear forward and 1 gear reverse. ie beetle trans evs run in 3rd or 4th and the other gears arent needed. you dont need trans losses if there is 1500 newtons available at 0 rpm till 5200... you just chug along. that's how the regera works, by the way. the electric motor eliminates the trans.
@shirleygorre6003
2 жыл бұрын
The fans hanging off the side of the truck for battery cooling / warming looks very problematic in inclement weather driving conditions.
@RichardinNC1
2 жыл бұрын
I agree that it would work for local delivery vehicles, school busses and possibly gas/water utility trucks. Any job where it can sit overnight to recharge. I wonder why hybrid is not tried. Diesel electric locomotives have been in-use for 70 years. It would add weight and space concerns but allow the diesel to charge the batteries for longer routes.
@BB-1990
2 жыл бұрын
@mike schmidt Isn't 90 minutes a long time when running a business. 90 minutes of not making money.
@skippynj1979
2 жыл бұрын
Look at Nikola.. the hydrogen fuel cell will be the long range future.
@trash_warden6190
2 жыл бұрын
Check out Edison motors, its a startup thats building trucks using the locomotive style driveline
@cj09beira
2 жыл бұрын
weight is the main reason, and in trucks the heavier the truck is the less weight you can carry as there are weight limits in place
@vladconstantinminea
2 жыл бұрын
@@cj09beira The smart man in the comments. Everybody focuses on performance, but no business cares about that, it's all about economics.
@gbpg2016
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, I’ve never heard of a vehicle that has a depleted battery that can charge to 100% in 90 mins off 125kWh charge rate with a 210kWh battery pack. How on earth do you come out with a truck like this with a max charge rate of 125kWh? Talk about dropping the ball. Me thinks customers won’t be happy when they see real world numbers. Dude just straight up told a lie like it was nothing.
@HansSchulze
2 жыл бұрын
If you get 125kWh charger, and you fill 210kWh tank, 210/125 = 1.68 hrs, or 101 minutes. You don't need to use the whole tank for all applications. Be careful about accusing someone of something like lying as you're not an expert. New charging tech available today is 250kWh and 300 kWh, and going from 360V to 800V, which means 500kWh is probably not hard. Tesla has planned to power their trucks on Megawatt chargers (1MWh) which would be about 20-30 mins. Don't forget either, that starting and stopping costs way more than 6MPG, but BEV reclaim power wasted by diesels.
@breckfreeride
2 жыл бұрын
@@HansSchulze lipos don't charge full power the entire time... When they are close to full the amps will drop off quickly. However there is usually a certain percentage that is "unusable" to keep from damaging the pack... It is possible that a 125 could charge a mostly discharged pack in about that time but only a nutsack would run the pack down past 20%. Lipos don't like to be left fully charged and don't like to be discharged below 40%. You will greatly reduce the cycles and strength of the pack (internal resistance) by treating the battery like a gas tank.
@HansSchulze
2 жыл бұрын
@@breckfreeride agreed. Those numbers depend on the exact chemistry, which may or may not apply (100% 0% for LiFePo) or go even slower. I did derate 100/5 to 20-30 mins. Filling to 100% depends on usage too. 85% is pretty decent “full" on LiPo. Also matters if more cells are in parallel or not vs my 70kWh experience which has a motor wound for speed for a specific battery current config.
@GeneralBeefDip
2 жыл бұрын
You can buy a heck of a lot of fuel for x2-x3 the costs of the entire truck. People are being conditioned into thinking high gas prices are going to be around forever, and the only way out is EV. I’m sure the cost of those batteries when they go bad would be almost the same cost as buying another truck. Especially with the added cost to recycle the old ones.
@jimbob1096
2 жыл бұрын
Like everything they are trying to do with us these days they create a crisis out of everything. (Notice how everything is a "Crisis", scaring you into doing something under the guise of helping you. Remember Rahm Emmanuel obamas chief of staff said never let a good crisis go to waste") Then pushing a narrative the rich people want that allegedly "helps" you but gives the rich more money and more control. Gas price crisis, climate crisis. OMG gas prices are so high and the world will collapse cause man ia destroying the earth. See ignorant masses you need an electric vehicle to beat the price of gas and save the world. (I'm from the govt I'm here to help you.) Then when they have enough people on board the price of electricity will skyrocket. (So you won't save a darn thing but they suckered you in under a "Crisis") Thier excuse will be well the grid cant handle all this electric use we need to massively upgrade the system. The govt wants to build 500k chargers, there's 300 million vehicles in the US. Half the people live in apartments where they wont have chargers the numbers don't add up. Only the wealthier people will be able to drive around. They want want you to buy a super expensive electric car. The avg car payment now is $700. Your cutting alot of people out of the car market. So they'll have to live in a city and ride public transportation. Stacked on top of each other like cord wood. Which is what the worldd ecconimic forrum wants. This country was founded on freedom these cars limit your freedom. You cant travel as freely as you once did in ice cars. For the people that say rapid chargers will give same time of fill up as gas. Those chargers degrade your batteries at a rapid rate and batteries aren't cheap. I drive a plug in hybrid its been a good car but the battery is half the life it used to be. $10K to replace it. People that don't think for themselves or bother investigating things fall for this non-sense. Think for yourselves Sheeple. Expand your mind quit listening to the narrative don't be so short sighted.
@KevinKimmich44024
2 жыл бұрын
I'm curious how much they'll eventually charge for recycling the batteries, and what will actually happen to those dead batteries. Probably "long term storage" in a remote country for later recycling.
@louisschummer931
2 жыл бұрын
@@KevinKimmich44024 They are highly sought after for solar power storage where they can last for years more.
@KevinKimmich44024
2 жыл бұрын
@@louisschummer931 So what? They eventually get scrapped too. Plus that is additional cost to disassemble the battery from the vehicle, which is then essentially worthless, and additional cost to ship somewhere for marginal use, then eventually recycled. On top of all that, we're still going to be using petroleum for pavement, for plastics, etc... like for wind turbine blades, then I guess pumping all the evil gas and diesel down the solar powered wells? At least this will go on for a while until the dummies pushing this unworkable scheme are driven into the sea by angry mobs who finally figure out that it's all a scam.
@jbbuzzable
2 жыл бұрын
@@KevinKimmich44024 I'm a curious guy. On what information have you based your claims?
@bwillan
2 жыл бұрын
Think of EV regenerative braking as similar to using the engine retarder on most commercial trucks. It feels the same.
@punisher3607
2 жыл бұрын
Why cant they just have the front wheels power a generator to charge itself while driving? If you're on the open road you aren't going to be breaking and charging your battery. I don't know why they haven't implemented that.
@jurchiks
2 жыл бұрын
@@punisher3607 if they were to do that, they'd be wasting more battery by fighting against the generator. That's a waste of energy, and also basic physics.
@punisher3607
2 жыл бұрын
@@jurchiks Or just have solar panels on the roof of the vehicle or something like that ? I know it's not always sunny, but just an idea.
@jurchiks
2 жыл бұрын
@@punisher3607 This truck has a tiny roof though. Now 18-wheelers... For sure. There are some passenger cars with solar panels on them, too few IMO, but for large trucks that is a far more useful idea. However, the #1 thing to optimize is aerodynamics, followed by weight, followed by efficiency of everything that's in the car (drivetrain, heating, cooling, any other electronics).
@carlsegerstrom3989
2 жыл бұрын
I think it’s a great idea but I am curious how long the battery will last(years) and the cost to replace. One of the things I like about ICE vehicles is the fact that you could buy one that is 7-10 years old and save a lot on depreciation. I am curious how this will go in the used market.
@hiteshadhikari
2 жыл бұрын
Batteries cost 40-60% of the costs, if used regularly and charged often, they wont last 6 to 7 years at max
@kng128
2 жыл бұрын
I have an 8 year old PHEV. I still have about 3/4 of new range. As expensive as cars are new and with battery prices dropping I'm considering replacing the battery before getting a new car. The next item to go bad in the car would be the transmission. My car "payments" go into a brokerage account and stays invested until the family needs the money. I've been making these "car payments" for a decade or so.
@robertkwiatkoski1292
2 жыл бұрын
great point. friend told me he had seen that an electric car had a 2x footprint vompared to gas by the end of their respective lives. don't know if thats true or not. see vids on child labor digging raw materials that go into batteries. is that a cost that is factored in? lets peel the entire onion. both vehicles make sense as do many things we should be considering. Short term goals, mid term goals and long term goals. where i live on the n.c. coast we have 2 ways in.(3rd is a ferry system) # of weekly visitos is estimated at 300k-500k per week. yes those are the numbers quoted. what happens when we have a huricane and the beaches are evacuated? how do you charge all those vehicles? traffic jams ect. going west the interstate is 3÷ hrs away. just a thought.
@hiteshadhikari
2 жыл бұрын
@@robertkwiatkoski1292 it is true, a electric car making creates a larger footprint than a ic car would in its lifetime
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
ICE cars depreciate the minute you drive it off the lot, and drops in value the older it gets.
@gabrielsasala1875
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I think the best introduction for EVs would diesel powered generator in the front where the engine is supposed to go, and the wheels are power by an electric motor, that way you can keep the batteries small
@alf3071
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂
@JogBird
2 жыл бұрын
the battery pack alone is probably worth at least $100k
@Contreras-z4e
2 жыл бұрын
Need major insurance for this
@triedproven9908
2 жыл бұрын
This...
@AKNigel
2 жыл бұрын
It's closer to $21k. A pretty penny for sure.
@Matt-vz5wy
2 жыл бұрын
That diesel service truck is exactly what I need. But I want an older one. After treatment systems just add cost and complexity. I’m a diesel mechanic, so I need to be able to fix my rig easily, quickly, and wherever I might be at that time, so I can fix everyone else’s trucks. Simplicity is extra important with these supply chain issues. Less parts and sensors means less downtime. An electric truck is absolutely useless to me.
@uliwehner
2 жыл бұрын
interesting comment, what is your typical range for a call? and how much time per call? i would have expected a diesel mechanic spending most of the time working rather than driving?
@Matt-vz5wy
2 жыл бұрын
@@uliwehner it’s not necessarily just range, I often leave my truck running to power battery chargers, or run electric tools, air compressor, lights, etc. most of my calls are not roadside, since I specialize in doing bigger jobs, (and it helps keep my costs down) I’m typically going out to a trucking companies lot to do repairs, which is pretty often just a fenced in empty lot. I’m also fairly regularly pulling a 12 plus hour day. Adding to the problem, I don’t have a shop, and I don’t have the means to charge my service rig. Power goes out often in my corner of rural Washington, especially in the winter. Sometimes I only have five or six hours between my work days, which isn’t enough time to recharge one of those trucks anyway. There’s a long list of reasons, some are practical some are personal, but the best system for me is diesel power.
@uliwehner
2 жыл бұрын
@@Matt-vz5wy not arguing with you, just curious. most of my truck use is a 99F250 superduty 7.3 towing a 28 foot trailer to nascar races, just about all of them out of range for an EV. this truck will probably keep doing this job for the next 20 years without complaining.
@uliwehner
2 жыл бұрын
@@Matt-vz5wy maybe an APU would be cheaper to run than idling the engine?
@Matt-vz5wy
2 жыл бұрын
@@uliwehner it might be, but I’m currently using an 02 f350 with the 7.3 also. My air compressor runs off the drive belt on the engine, and I’m using power inverters to charge and power my electric tools. Not ideal, but it works. APU isn’t a bad idea, but I don’t have room for one at the moment. Part of why the truck in this video would work well for me. I’m ready for an upgrade, even though I love my 7.3.
@adamrichardson2227
2 жыл бұрын
I have a hard time believing that, even with maintenance costs and fuel costs, that the cost of the EV version would even out before the dreaded battery replacement. The EV is less maintenance, but not maintenance free. The only thing different is that there is no Cummins engine, so the only costs of the maintenance that is offset is related to the engine system. Plus, if the EV parts are unique to the EV version, like driveline components and stuff, it could be more expensive and more difficult to get parts for it. Even though it is cheaper to charge than a diesel is to fill up, it is still a potentially substantial cost when you look at the cost per mile. In the end, I don't think the concessions needed to make an EV work as a service truck like this make sense. However, this design seems like they just used most of the legacy designs of a diesel truck and adapted it for an electric powertrain. I think the only way that an EV in the service truck industry would ever work is if it was a redesign from the ground up to mitigate the downsides of having all electric. Like lighter weight everywhere possible, less rotating mass, like that driveline, instead maybe mounting the motor where the differential is. Also, improving the aerodynamics, rolling resistance, suspension etc. could go a long way to getting more range.
@Ozarkprepper643
2 жыл бұрын
I drove OTR forever. The company I drove for about 7 years ago gave me a new Robo truck. Had things like anti-collision breaking. That truck used to average 8.7 MPG when running 70 -- 80,000 lb. But deadheading you could actually squeeze 11 to 12 MPG. And bobtailing it did better than my Dodge pickup coming in at just over 18 MPG. They should be concentrating on hybrid. It works for locomotives, with that and regen breaking wouldn't need as many batteries and would always run as long as you had diesel. That would make it feasible for OTR.
@Ozarkprepper643
2 жыл бұрын
@Peter smith most trucks are disc now. But air brakes are a DOT mandate. That way in the event of a failure of any kind, including air Supply the brakes still work. That is till they lockup. But no doubt the air takes a few horsepower to operate. 1 hp = 750 Watts. Even if it made sense I wouldn't look for the government to change anything in a timely fashion. It took over 20 years to get the 55 mph speed limit back up. Rapidly losing air pressure in a big rig brings its own set of scary circumstances. I blew a brand new right front tire just outside Birmingham Middle Lane of a five Lane Highway. I was going 64 mph. As the rubber blew apart it tore the airline off with it. So not only did I have to deal with the flat, the wheel was locked up as well. I used the Johnny brake the slow the truck down while crossing too the shoulder and then the off-ramp. (fortunately there was one there) The truck still wasn't stopped by the time all the brakes locked. At least that happened at slower speed. Fortunately it didn't jackknife or roll the truck. Had I instinctively just jab the brakes the front end would had dipped and things would have been even fuglier.
@paulbankard1525
2 жыл бұрын
Just wait until the battery has to be replaced. It isn't a couple hundred dollars to replace. It's tens of thousands.
@Neojhun
2 жыл бұрын
Sure the battery replacement is going to be a big cost. But that is after like 15 years of hard work. BEVs cam survive very high mileage during their short life. This will just be a cost that has to be factored in. It is no where close to as expensive as maintaining a diesel drive train and brake system over the same amount of time. Your bad assumptions does not understand the massive difference in cost Over Time.
@Neojhun
2 жыл бұрын
@@paulbankard1525 True every 15 to 20 years.
@Jerzeyguy
2 жыл бұрын
All those wires I can see being ripped off on a job site.
@jimbob1096
2 жыл бұрын
Plus metal thieves when the realize all the copper in the charging wire will be cutting them off left and right. So youll be stranded.
@Jerzeyguy
2 жыл бұрын
@@jimbob1096 I wasn’t even thinking of that but you’re 100% right!!
@zachanderson963
2 жыл бұрын
The EV seems like a good fit for a power company.
@lesleyboeder1798
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe for meter readers and such.but the big work trucks spend to much time idling to run hydraulics.
@jbbuzzable
2 жыл бұрын
@@lesleyboeder1798 Electric vehicles don't need to idle. That's one of the avantages. Thank you for your comment!
@SuperMaxdragon
2 жыл бұрын
You failed to pay attention for the reason they idle. Running the hydraulics.
@238haden
2 жыл бұрын
I work for peterbilt motors (just a factory floor worker) but i would love to see you get in contact with them to try out our electric truck. That being said, i think this push for fully EVs is ridiculous and don’t understand why there isn’t more of a push for hybrids to gather that great regenerative breaking and the benefits like better brake life while also using the motor to assist the engine in accelerating to improve fuel milage greatly while having the better range and quick fuel up needed in the truck industry.
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
Hybrids will be phased out
@victorradu9645
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with you. With a push towards hybrids instead of EV, the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions would happen faster, as more people would afford the difference in price, and the same amount of batteries will replace more ICE vehicles, thus less emitters
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
@@victorradu9645 meanwhile, hybrids will be phased out soon
@BB-1990
2 жыл бұрын
@@bradmagnuson6963 We heard you the first time! Duh, parrot it again!
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
@@BB-1990 doesn't mean you're listening, duh, keep being an ass
@RMC2021
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t understand how people can be this stupid… So you pay 2.5x the price of a diesel which means you can buy two diesel trucks for the price of one EV and still have money left over to put service bodies on the back of both of them. After the initial cost of buying this thing, you are spending $40-$50 to recharge it only to get a third of the range of the diesel. It’s interesting technology but stop shoving this crap down everyone’s throats - we don’t want electric vehicles and the main selling point is cost?? This whole thing contradicts itself and it’s just plain stupid. At the end of the day, these types of trucks are used to make money, not commute or go on weekend trips for fun. Economically this makes no logical sense whatsoever.
@Bradimus1
2 жыл бұрын
You can buy one or the other. That's the opposite of shoving down everyone's throats. And this is literally the first generation. It's easy to imagine it will get cheaper and the range longer.
@mikeoxlong3676
2 жыл бұрын
The eco warriors are basically religious zealots at this point. They don't care how impractical electric is. They don't care how expensive it is. They don't care that the batteries get dumped in landfills at the end of their life. They just believe in their gospel.
@RMC2021
2 жыл бұрын
@@Bradimus1 you’re right - they aren’t forcing anyone to buy it….. yet. California is going to set the precedent with their new initiatives to be fully electric by 2030 which means there are no new internal combustion engines sold at all. They’ve already put the axe to mowers, weed esters, and chain saws by forcing the electric. Usually the rest of the country adopts their bullshit eventually. As far as the whole being cheaper thing - don’t think the government won’t raise the price of electric just like they did with gas/oil over the last 40 years.
@RMC2021
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikeoxlong3676 the fact that these “smart” people use cost savings and environmental savings as selling points is really just stupidity at this point. This is all simply a platform for the democrats to take the wealth from the republicans oil/gas cash cows and line their pockets. People can’t really be that ignorant to believe Al Gore and his global warming bullshit. The average temps have risen something like 0.7° over the last 100+ years. They are going to lure in all the sheep with this EV crap and raise all the electric prices to the point where it’s not even recognizable anymore. For the love of God, I used to pay $0.98 a gallon back in the mid 90’s when I first started driving and now it’s minimally quadrupled that price across the country. The average cost of electric is $0.10/kwh which can easily be $1.00/kwh once they switch everyone over to this EV crap and before you know it, you’re paying upward of $800/mo on your electric bill all to save $400/mo on your gas prices…. People need to stop giving in to the lies. You’re stepping over a dollar to pick up a nickel!
@Loyalwhiteknight
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the honest review Andre. Definitely sold me on the diesel when you consider cost, how damaging to the environment those batteries are, how far you can travel and the time to refill versus charging. Excellent job sir.
@infernoking7504
2 жыл бұрын
Diesels will always win......especially the old mechanical ones will outlast any ev garbage the best thing would be to make a diesel hybrid
@Alexanderofthe9th
2 жыл бұрын
There's plenty of market share and usage applications for both. Go figure INT. is offering both
@jbbuzzable
2 жыл бұрын
Garbage trucks are a great application for EV trucks!
@danpatterson8009
2 жыл бұрын
I can see electric trucks doing well in applications that are mostly short trips with lower overall utilization (like, only one shift per day). For long-haul trucking, range and time to recharge will be major obstacles in displacing diesels.
@wootuser
2 жыл бұрын
LOL, I don't agree. 2 round trips from LA to Irvine and I got to recharge for 90 minutes. 1 round trip from LA to Riverside and again I need to recharge. And in LA multiply this by 100,000 or more truck and LA gets more brown outs? Diesel Electric (Hybrid) would be way better than full on EV.
@xeridea
2 жыл бұрын
I think they are significantly overcharging on the ev. The battery pack would cost around $25-30k, there is no need for a $170k price hike. Clearly gouging and abusing rebates.
@JJ_ExMachina
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed the 210KWh battery should be around $30k. SO like you said the sticker price of that EV truck is extremely high. Considering you aren't paying for the engine, transmission and other things associated with them. Yes you have an electric motor, batteries, and associated items... BUT that should NOT double or triple the price of the truck.
@mikehogan6938
2 жыл бұрын
Best thing about the MV is the power train international is notorious for having electrical issues especially in the class 8 LT commercial trucks. 135 mile range in the EMV is gonna be used strictly for in town use. I'm a diesel guy at heart but once they get the prices way lower and and the range well over 500 miles I'll stick with my diesel engines since they cost 3x less overall
@ridgerunner106
2 жыл бұрын
Yep we have a Work on it all the time international.
@Bruningable
2 жыл бұрын
Isn't it a little bit overkill to to have a service truck that big? Dually, heavy frame, 6.7l engine... All it does is hauling wrenches and hammers. In Europe we use vans like Ford Transit or VW Transporter for such purposes...
@Bradimus1
2 жыл бұрын
There are plenty of smaller trucks. Something this big will be hauling something very heavy in the bed regularly that would be impractical in a smaller truck and potentially pulling something behind it besides. Usually utility companies and such use this type of thing. Not that common though for the reasons you say.
@rbryanhull
2 жыл бұрын
Now do a welder, and air compressor, and a crane to lift heavy parts in and out of the service body.
@phillyphil1513
2 жыл бұрын
Q: Isn't it a little bit overkill to to have a service truck that big? A: well depends on what you're "servicing". the support trucks the railroads and the public utilities use tend to be Medium Duty rigs like this. also the boys working on "Yellow Iron" (Cat, Deere, Volvo, JCB) in the farm and construction sectors need to run these same rigs.
@nkoeppen
2 жыл бұрын
2.5 times as expensive…electric heavy duty trucks are a LONG way away!
@ty2010
2 жыл бұрын
last larger turbo diesel I drove was an automatic and got 17 mpg
@hyperjanny1510
2 жыл бұрын
THAT IS SO GOOD! HOW MANY GALLONS DID YOUR TANK HOLD!?!
@ty2010
2 жыл бұрын
@@hyperjanny1510 I think it had a 40 gallon, was a 24 foot rental Ford, actually put off large pickups unless one of those were there. 4-6 mpg on the similar sized gas kind of sealed it outside short in town trips.
@hyperjanny1510
2 жыл бұрын
@@ty2010 So Your Average Range Is: 680 Miles
@hyperjanny1510
2 жыл бұрын
@@ty2010 In Our Most New Car Our Max Range is 1700 Miles And The Minimum Range Is 17 Miles.
@chadkeller2144
2 жыл бұрын
I definitely think EVs have their place in our world (buses, delivery vehicles, etc), but replacing internal combustion engines for every application is probably not going to happen (at least as quickly as some of our politicians think it will).
@UPsideDOWNworld321
2 жыл бұрын
You would have to ha e 100,000 pounds in battery's to equal what a 100x2 gallon truck can do...
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
It should, as more automakers are ditching gas powered cars for electric cars
@darkchild256
2 жыл бұрын
Its definitely not going to happen with people using relatively small 210kwh batteries. Hopefully they go larger in the future.
@bradmagnuson6963
2 жыл бұрын
@@darkchild256 it's definitely going to happen. A 210kwh battery has sufficient range
@darkchild256
2 жыл бұрын
@@bradmagnuson6963 In schoolbuses and stuff yes, my comment wasnt a strike against EVs, it was more a strike against Internationals implementation. They should make the battery larger and fix their in-frame layout to better utilize the space of a vehicle that large.
@CautiousDavid
2 жыл бұрын
Oh Jesus, is that a capacitive touch shifter?! That would drive me absolutely insane!! Cool trucks, there’s a lot of details to appreciate and I like that TFL brought us a look at the commercial side of things. Definitely not hating on International, just that shifter really stands out to me as a horrible experience 😅 It does seem like Electric commercial trucks would greatly favor a flat nose though, I’d like to see them move the product into its own line and move those front electric components under the cab and elsewhere. If diesel commercial trucks can have a flat nose, then electric absolutely should all go that route imo.
@joejenkins460
2 жыл бұрын
It's not capacitive touch.
@andreab6271
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like a normal Allison type push button shifter
@ExperiencesAndEquipment
2 жыл бұрын
That's a pretty standard button shifter, I know the military hemmt uses them depending on the year.
@DamnThem2Hel
2 жыл бұрын
Why don't they make a diesel eletric? You could use a high efficiency diesel generator to extend the range. Have it optional to shut off when in towns, but kick it on when going long distances. Set up right, you could use a 25 gallon tank to push the range to well over 500 miles, maybe even closer to 1000 miles.
@overlnder9793
2 жыл бұрын
I work in Fire and EMS I could see these as a perfect option for ambulance application. Alot of the departments are gonna have to be dragged kicking and screaming down that route but it really makes alot of sense. Constant access to charging at the station or hospital even could work we already have shoreline plugs at the hospitals I frequent it wouldn’t be a hard change over. Rarely do we drive more than 40 miles round trip for a call and that would be like once a month maybe. Plenty of juice for the AC and lighting on the box and interior compartment power draw is really not that much people over estimate what a cardiac monitor and fluid warmer and a few other odds and ends draw. Also would be nice to be able to sit outside and write reports with the truck ac on and not killing the entire ER with diesal fumes🤷♂️😂
@hbudsmalley6317
2 жыл бұрын
At over 2x the cost not many gov't shops are going to buy the EV.
@overlnder9793
2 жыл бұрын
@@hbudsmalley6317 You would be amazed at the cringe worthy expenditure that comes out of my counties coffers its not just the Fire Dept. But State highway etc. etc. if It were up to me we would be using type 3 sprinters but god forbid we give up 10k pound box truck ambulances that are a total cost waste all for looks and no function. The europeans run there ambos with way more kit than us and stuff a doctor on there at times and there doing it in There equivalent of our Ram Promasters. I definitely will agree it is a reach for smaller counties and municipalities but big tax base systems love throwing money around
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
@@hbudsmalley6317 Capital cost is an issue, although full life cycle cost should be lower.
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
Check out the eFX ambulance built by Demers on a Lion5 chassis from Lion Electric.
@ethanbunch3274
2 жыл бұрын
It really is nice seeing an apples to apples comparison between two of the same chassis. I've done the same in my own research with Peterbilt and Kenworth class 8 trucks comparing the electric versions of the same chassis. One of the costs that they don't mention that I'm very curious about is the price to change out batteries in the electric. They claim that the "overall maintenance costs" of the electric are down but if you consider changing batteries that cost hikes way up. Take a look into the world of Tesla's battery changes with them often costing $22,000 and the buyback rate for one of those to the dealership is $500 if the battery is dead. I am concerned that they simply not telling this they make electric to look a lot more inviting than they really are. Also expected life out of one of those battery packs and not to mention half the range for twice the price The only advantage or reason to buy one of these is because you want to buy an electric. Edit: sorry almost a quarter of the range
@artlewellan2294
2 жыл бұрын
Daimler's BEV long haul freight truck battery packs are a huge 550kwh. In this application BEV tech does not make sense to me. I figure the pack will deplete at 150k-200k miles. Every 2 years a new battery pack? What I'm waiting for is a plug-in hybrid PHEV long haul with 110kwh packs matched to diesel, gasoline or combustible hydrogen ICEngines. The PHEV pack is more of a "light duty" application so I figure they'll last closer to 200k miles before replacement. Translation: Five PHEV 110kwh truck packs will deliver ONE million miles of goods transport while BEV packs deliver only 150k-200k. Almost a no brainer application preference for PHEV over BEV. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
@sg1trogdor
2 жыл бұрын
@@artlewellan2294 El Dorado is making buses with the cummins 6.7 and an electric motor inline so they are true hybrids. i dont know much about them. They are building a bunch of them for San Francisco. We custom made one for carb/epa testing and certification at my shop about 5 years ago.
@orthopraxis235
2 жыл бұрын
You are confused because the smart part of you knows the whole EV dream is stupid. Yet you are expected to "be nice" and find a way to fit this lie in with that. This is the purpose of nonsense, to confuse you and diminish you into accepting and acting your approval of something you know to be a lie.
@tomgreene7942
2 жыл бұрын
@@orthopraxis235 Dude, go rent a Chevy Volt for a couple weeks before you say it is all nonsense. The systems work, if you don't drive too far. That being said, there is still a lot of engineering needed to make it work for work trucks. I borrowed my coworkers Volt, it was impressive. Battery replacement costs are deal killers though.
@outcast1sub7
2 жыл бұрын
Hydrogen hybrid w/battery would in my mind be the best way to go UNTIL batteries become capable of lasting a whole 10 hour day of driving in all conditions on a single charge. If they don't then it will be not feasible for the trucking industry to use strictly battery power.
@theredscourge
2 жыл бұрын
If they can build a hybrid Prius, surely they could have enough room to build a hybrid large truck with a small efficient engine, and then you still get the benefit of long range, no gears, and regenerative braking. That's probably what the future will be for large hauling vehicles.
@tjztyger
2 жыл бұрын
Weight is the enemy. Every pound of EV equipment in the hybrid drive is a pound of cargo lost.
@joshburts1044
2 жыл бұрын
Would this be possible for a firetruck or EMS application, and how effective would it be for sustained stationary pto work, as well as travel distances. Would it be more cost effective than a diesel counterpart. Is it also 110 trickle charge compatible.
@Tazdeviloo7
2 жыл бұрын
Could definitely see this for a fire truck. They idle 99% of the time so for high use fire departments it could save a lot in fuel costs. Would just need a diesel back up generator at the station in case of power outages to keep em charged.
@outlawgamingrp
2 жыл бұрын
I can't see EV being practical in these applications with the huge loads required to operate these things, rhe battery's would drain very quick
@tommussington8330
2 жыл бұрын
pirce makes an ev already
@rustyaxelrod
2 жыл бұрын
EV’s are improving but still not there yet for most applications. Lighter, faster charging, more power dense batteries and lowering initial costs need to to be addressed before it becomes the standard. I don’t have a big problem with tax incentives to get this technology on its feet but that should not be counted on to make it economically feasible in perpetuity. Thanks for the quick look at these trucks with real numbers, much of what I’ve seen from other sources has been pretty vague. Good video 👍
@neilduncan8657
2 жыл бұрын
its going to be a similiar but different transition there was a time with no gas stations....just hitching posts
@TruckerMike089
2 жыл бұрын
That's actually smart of them to dial down the motor as to not throw freight around or shock your securement. It's still an impractical vehicle for many applications. Your job sites aren't going to have charging stations. Also that cooling system is going to be an issue. Never fails that a rock, or piece of metal, anything will puncture, smash, or break a box. 135 miles is not far enough for many applications either. You guys ought to go see the Iowa 80 truck Museum. They have old EV trucks that back in the day still had range issues. Nothing about this EV fad is new.
@ronaldking1054
2 жыл бұрын
1.65 trillion barrels of oil, and that has fallen, and the world uses 34 billion barrels of oil per year. No oil has been found, and the last spike coincided with learning how to get oil from shale. That is 47 years, and that was 2 years ago. There are other uses of oil. The oil fad needs to be over. As for that one box, you are stating that your radiator never failed, and your transmission never failed. Radiators puncture, but that was never a reason not to buy a diesel truck. Money gives heat too, but you'd be considered a fool for suggesting burning it.
@david19897
2 жыл бұрын
EV trucks are excellent for short haul last mile delivery stuff. Garbage trucks, short runs around cities making deliveries. There are better then diesel. Switch to the anything much above a 100 miles a day totally switches and the diesel is much better. It's all about the right tool for the job.
@TruckerMike089
2 жыл бұрын
@@david19897 there is a reason why EVs were dropped on all applications. This whole push for EVs is not the answer. The technology isn't there. Diesel is still king and will be for a long time as long as expensive fuel takes money away from research.
@robertchow8829
2 жыл бұрын
The price difference is too great despite the savings in fuel and maintenance. The upfront cost is really important.
@jbbuzzable
2 жыл бұрын
Only to the short-sighted.
@isaac198428
2 жыл бұрын
The electric truck is great and can be configured for a school bus/day care bus but this current mode shown had horrible aerodynamics so only ideal for slow city driving not high speed highway drive because that drag from the wind would greatly reduce the range.
@jakemcbride7049
2 жыл бұрын
You got a good point about the wind
@derrickodyes1934
2 жыл бұрын
I call bullcrap on limited maintenance on a all electric truck... All those computers, electric motors and wiring
@andreasblomst5744
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, the 210kwh battery option would cost $24 to charge at .12cents per kw, assuming 90% efficiently and 10% juice left in battery. Pretty dramatic difference vs diesel cost. That being said, does not work for all applications. Why is it 130k more than diesel, yea it’s got $50k worth of batteries, but it also does not have a 20k Diesel engine and 16k transmission.
@johnjohnson9017
2 жыл бұрын
Fuel doesn’t have to be that expensive. The government is keeping it that way. When everybody drives a EV the price for electric will soar.
@wismar1971
2 жыл бұрын
A comparison of replacement of drivetrain would be interesting. What are total replacement costs and the estimated time before replacement. So for the electric it would include the motor and batteries, the diesel would be engine and fuel related components. If the batteries could be recycled then that would apply, same for the diesel.
@xmtxx
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnjohnson9017 Yeah, fuel kinda have to be that expensive. Because of the horrific consequence of burning it when you souldn't need to.
@fduran6993
2 жыл бұрын
Considering 5kw lifepo4 costs around 1500$, then 210 kw battery would cost 63000 $ plus electric engine vs diesel engine and transmission. Fuel and maintenance costs should be higher on ICE.
@xmtxx
2 жыл бұрын
@@fduran6993 You are considering retail price for a small battery. The manufacturer will get bulk factory prices. In 2021 those prices were considered around 130$/kWh. Let's count 200$/kWh for the factory pricing, your battery would cost around 40K$. It's even better. As you said, ICE maintenance and fuel cost would be more than double the price of this battery. Btw the drivetrain wears way less on an EV. The engine has pretty much 1 moving part, aand is rated for at least a million miles without any maintenance. There is no clutch, no gearbox (just a reductor), and if you use 2 motors, you don't even need a diff.
@GoldenHart1970
2 жыл бұрын
Why do we always try to run before we learn to walk. These big electric trucks just don't make sense now with the current battery tech and huge cost of batteries, but what would make sense is a small efficient diesel generator that would charge the batteries and supple power to the electric power train as needed. A true hybrid system like they use in large commercial boats and trains. This would be cheaper to manufacture and very cost effective to operator for now, until battery tech and cost get better. Just my honest opinion
@xjmg007
2 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with this, I wish there was incentive for this tech. BMW made a small vehicle that worked on this principle. Batteries could be smaller and cheaper, and the combustion engine would be ran at a very steady state so could last a long time.
@damilolaakanni
2 жыл бұрын
@@xjmg007 yes, the i3. Unfortunately BMW charged buyers $50K US for that in 2014. It may have sold in large numbers if it was priced cheaper.
@RichardinNC1
2 жыл бұрын
I agree a diesel electric makes sense but what about the added space and weight, reducing the payload? It would also be a special case, short runs to empty the EV battery, run on diesel for longer routes, like the Chevy Volt.
@cliffcollins4124
2 жыл бұрын
Only problem is that 120Kw generators, do not have small diesel engines
@trevorstein4603
2 жыл бұрын
I was coughing up my coffee balking at the range of the Diesel, but I was straight up laughing at the eMV's range 🤣. 135mi unloaded.... I gotta be honest, y'all should have just put your pens down and saved some R&D $$$ at that point. Whats the point? What happens to that range loaded, what happens when it's cold, what happens when it's Arizona hot outside? How soon do those battery packs start losing their capability to keep their full range? Why no hybrid setup? Hybrid should have been where you guys started with on this truck, with current battery and electric motor tech, effectively run it like a modern diesel electric locomotive. I'm looking forward to Cummins Hydrogen testbed research, and I'd expect, it will at minimum, compete with the diesels range.
@mattbrew11
2 жыл бұрын
There are a TON of short range HD use cases these could replace. Armored cars, garbage trucks, school busses for sure. Theres ~ 10M of those in use around the us
@trevorstein4603
2 жыл бұрын
@@mattbrew11 banks may be able to cough up the cash for EV armored chassis, I'd expect the range to take a sincere nose dive, if it's already at 135, in current spec, unloaded, and unarmored. Average new school bus costs start at 90k same for that base model, and are expected to operate for about 10-15 years on average, in multiple seasons and climates. I sincerely don't believe they will operate as well as a traditional diesel or CNG bus. Alaska has apparently had plenty of issues with their EV school buses, but again that is an extreme climate, not the average. Garbage trucks can do as little as 300 households all the way up to 1500 on average. And again, weight comes into play here, as well as climate, how hard is that gonna dunk that eMV chassis down on range? I can't seem to find any #'s to correlate. But let's assume it's only dealing with a 70 mile round trip, that might potentially work with that range figure. But then the cost per unit argument rolls right back in to defeat it when comparing existing Diesel or CNG vehicles, new and used, next to the cost of a new eMV for a municipality annual budget. Even with how atrocious Refuse Haulers are on Diesel (😱 3.2 mpg) they typically will operate with a 50- 100 gal. tank. So that's either as low as 160mi. or as high as 320, which is still better than the eMV's range that isn't configured for refuse hauling. The technology is neat, and it is promising, but I'm not certain that it's truly cost effective and viable. Time will tell
@mattbrew11
2 жыл бұрын
@@trevorstein4603 the range he quoted is loaded. They do not have any reason to rate them empty these aren’t passenger cars
@timothycrowhurst1249
2 жыл бұрын
One of my greatest questions are the life of the battery packs and cost of replacement. Most battery packs have 5 year life expectancy.
@angelgjr1999
2 жыл бұрын
Ehh our van’s engines last about 3 years. They don’t last much, especially the ecoboosts.
@cleonannmariepalmer9758
2 жыл бұрын
@@angelgjr1999 LOL
@bradchandler6967
2 жыл бұрын
There is a very important part that I didn't hear addressed, although I could have missed it, is the estimated battery life expectancy and cost of replacement batteries. Was it mentioned, or was it left out on purpose ?
@derekflanary6811
2 жыл бұрын
Gullible people think the battery will last for hundreds of thousands of miles like the diesel. Anyone with any common sense knows damn well the battery will degrade noticeably in five years and junk in ten
@frodomocho1211
2 жыл бұрын
@@derekflanary6811 ..and probably cost 30k+ to replace, so that's 3k a year in fixed cost at minimum for batt replacement.
@bradchandler6967
2 жыл бұрын
@@frodomocho1211 That's why I made that comment. They aren't cheap and I wanted to make that point.
@cmbakerxx
2 жыл бұрын
@@derekflanary6811 This isn't a phone battery. EV batteries in cars are already running 100's of thousand of miles with minimal degradation. With good battery management and conditioning, like appears to be happening with this design, there is no reason the batteries should not be fully useable in 300k.
@derekflanary6811
2 жыл бұрын
That's great, go waste your money
@kirksway1
2 жыл бұрын
I'm truly surprised that the motor isn't integrated in the rear axle. I think that would save a good deal of cost .
@9ZweihandeR9
2 жыл бұрын
It seems that they wanted as much parts and design commonality as possible. I think you are right though, they also could have lowered the hood so the driver has a better field of view and eliminated the grille vents so the truck has better aerodynamics and range.
@xmtxx
2 жыл бұрын
@@9ZweihandeR9 Yep, I don't know much about trucks and this brand, but you can tell it's their first electric vehicle, and they made pretty much every rookie mistakes. Maybe they should have hired more EV veterans, their truck would have been way better. The worst offender is the, ridiculously slow, DC charging speed (a little bit more than 1/2C).
@crhu319
2 жыл бұрын
Easier maintenance where it is. Way easier. Easier upgrades as well. This may not be the forever motor for this truck.
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
@@crhu319 The motor will likely outlast the axle that it is driving.
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
That's available, and even from the same company (Dana TM4) that supplies this motor. Integrated may be cheaper, and it's more compact. It would be interesting to hear why Navistar chose this configuration, but it is what TM4 originally offered.
@lifeRobrandom
2 жыл бұрын
Anybody noticed how they going on about how it's tuned to be like a diesel when what they actually mean is they've detuned the hell out of it to get the range up to 120
@aussiek2000
2 жыл бұрын
Same price, it would be great option. For double, almost triple the money, I'd have to stick to diesel.
@davidmccarthy6061
2 жыл бұрын
Because buying diesel over the lifespan of the vehicle is so cheap? Not to mention near zero maintenance vs. combustion.
@Dylan-jw8if
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidmccarthy6061 Near zero maintenance is inaccurate, 50% according to the company rep in the video. All of the running gear (bearings & steering) is the same and the battery cooling system is equivalent to an IC cooling system. No one can give accurate info on the lifespan of their battery packs and no one in these videos is willing to tell us what a battery replacement costs. For comparison Tesla considers the lifespan of an EV to be 200k miles and the battery pack should last that long ($12,000 to replace). That cummins will run 1million miles before you need to replace it. If the battery pack costs the same as a Tesla ( which i doubt) that would be another $60,000 for the EV truck over the 1 million mile life span of the diesel. EVs have a long ways to go.
@lumberjackdreamer6267
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dylan-jw8if Current EV are designed for 250k miles. Upcoming EV are designed for 500k, and the next generation is 1m miles.
@Dylan-jw8if
2 жыл бұрын
@@lumberjackdreamer6267 If they actually deliver that I will be impressed. Still if the range for a loaded truck is less than half with the EV I would never purchase for personal use. My time off work is to valuable to be sitting at a charger for hours on a vacation trip.
@lumberjackdreamer6267
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dylan-jw8if You’re wrong. Charging an EV is usually a time saver. It’s like charging your phone. No need to plan a detour to go to a gas station. I save a lot of time.
@TheFortunateWaywardSon
2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad Ev’s are being developed but the problem still stands if you have a ev you still need a gas or diesel vehicle while it doesn’t work the other way
@cosmopolitanolympus6502
2 жыл бұрын
I got one for you. Tour all electric tour busses for bands (with small diesel backup generator for things and recharge). This will drastically cut the cost of touring bands fuel experience. They need to be long range 300 - 500 miles per charge with a realistic charge time of about an hour give or take and three modes, normal loaded and a performance option for quickly accelerated merger onto freeway and highway system or congested traffic in urban areas where a tub bit more get up and go might be needed. Solar panels on the rooftop and nice on the interiors to power the interior lights, heat, AC, cooking, and sound systems. Maybe work a deal with some up and coming performing artists and send them out in the E-Toruing Bus to road test the concept and at the same time market the new technology for the consumer groups by having the busses on the road no stop like a typical tour set goes. People will love them.
@johnshellenberg1383
2 жыл бұрын
I live in a small city of 80,000 people and all our transit buses are now EVs. It's saved a massive amount of emissions and is now saving money as well. It's nice how the busses are so much quieter while driving in neighbourhoods. There's more and more commercial applications for EVs and even with higher capital costs, the long run economics can really make sense with reduced fuel/energy costs and service costs/time as well.
@petenelson8136
2 жыл бұрын
What's not being factored into EV's is the cost of disposing of the batteries once they are depleted. With all the rare earth metals in them we're headed for a huge problem of how to dispose of them.
@johnshellenberg1383
2 жыл бұрын
@@petenelson8136 Which is one reason why we shouldn't be relying on simply replacing all ICE vehicles with EV vehicles as a solution. We will minimize battery production by using electrified trains for mass transit - and as well use recycling for batteries. Most of the minerals can be reclaimed, but we still need to minimize battery production. The process of extraction of fossil fuels and the harm from ICE emissions is massive too, so we can't just not solve the problem. The key long term is non-carbon emitting electrical generation that powers direct electrified rail as well as battery buses - the battery capacity per person moved is minimized compared to individual vehicles.
@broeheemed32
2 жыл бұрын
What creates the electricity that "saves a massive amount of emissions"? Coal? Diesel? Electricity doesn't just fall from the skies.
@johnshellenberg1383
2 жыл бұрын
@@broeheemed32 The total stream of emissions is far less regardless of generation fuel.
@tonydowd8566
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnshellenberg1383 where is all the power going to be "generated" to charge these EV monster's, as solar and wind can't keep up? Coal and hydro? Hmmmm
@patbaptiste9510
2 жыл бұрын
There once were those who believed that Transistors would not replace vacum tubes...
@kevinpolito1529
2 жыл бұрын
EV trucks will RULE for local delivery, local vocational, short-haul. For trucking companies, it's all about the fuel cost, and electricity wins.
@Mistro07
2 жыл бұрын
For now…wait until everyone has one
@ALMX5DP
2 жыл бұрын
@@Mistro07 what do you expect to happen if “everyone has one”?
@f1y7rap
2 жыл бұрын
@@ALMX5DP As demand increases, cost increases. Currently between companies offering discounted charging, govt offering tax write-offs for chargers, and speculative money flooding the space, charging is cheap. Below market in some instances. And despite that, EV per-mile is on par with gas/diesel at a historically high price doe to govt constrained production. As adoption rises, and our ALREADY near max capacity grid hits/exceeds capacity, daytime electric rates will go thru the ROOF. Also, as many will try to shift to off-prime grid rates (nighttime) we will see THOSE KW rates skyrocket. And all of this at a time when "green" states are taking their "dirty" powerplants offline and further reducing the capacity of the grid. Just look at TX. Their grid is ~20% wind/solar. Last winter they had a grid failure due to cold weather freezing up the windmills, and this summer they had another brown/blackout due to heat. That was from increased AC usage (as I read) and home AC uses about 1/4th what charging a car requires. Then we get to the NIMBYs that don't want to see a solar farm or wind farm next door. Those same NIMBYs demand that your farmland be blanketed in solar panels or mountaintops festooned with windmills. I think it was EE, but about a year ago someone showed how much land would be needed to solar power the UK. It was 2/3 of ALL available land to go all solar.
@ALMX5DP
2 жыл бұрын
@@f1y7rap sounds like a lot of speculation, especially since the OP was referring to this specific commercial use case.
@kevinpolito1529
2 жыл бұрын
@@Mistro07 The US has barely scratched the surface of the potential of solar energy.
@markdanielczyk944
2 жыл бұрын
For certain applications the ev would good, not so sure about plowing snow(11' main, 8' wing plows) for a 12 hour shift.
@fabulousprofound
2 жыл бұрын
Wouldn’t the cold weather reduce battery output as well?
@brianb-p6586
2 жыл бұрын
That would not be a suitable application.
@bryanmesser7098
2 жыл бұрын
As battery technology improves EVs will takeover
@fastfed
2 жыл бұрын
Lol that's all we've been hearing for years, but what battery technology?? Where is it? All companies do is just ram more batteries in not less to get range
@MatrixDiscovery
2 жыл бұрын
No they won't. EV's will become a failure. What you are seeing is another version of "DVD versus VHS". The tired and true gas engine will beat the EV.
@ALMX5DP
2 жыл бұрын
@@MatrixDiscovery huh? DVD vs VHS? Are you saying VHS beat out DVDs or something? I think you’re too young to be making that analogy since that never happened, unless you are referring to Blu-ray vs DVD or Betamax vs VHS, or maybe something comparing to laserdisc lol
@steven4315
2 жыл бұрын
@@fastfed They can do that because the batteries are cheaper.
@mitchcash760
Жыл бұрын
My dad used to deliver for Mike Sells, Sara Lee, Nickels and Entenmmen's and he said another driver from another company said he would run out of range 3 days a week in the winter in his EV truck.
@Joe254KE
2 жыл бұрын
Great review and comparison. EV trucks have a special place depending on the type of work, mostly short-distance deliveries (the school bus example is perfect), but the diesel engine still beats it, so long as it's a truck. Keep the reviews coming! Greetings from Nairobi, Kenya.
@mikes3827
2 жыл бұрын
Also, where temperatures can get VERY hot in Kenya, that could spell doom for the batteries that power EVs. Extreme hot AND cold temperatures kill the EVs batteries, and as the INDIVIDUAL batteries are VERY expensive to replace, imagine having to purchase 3-4-5 batteries--only to risk killing them again from exposure to extreme heat?! VERY, VERY impractical application. Besides, diesel fuel runs under any temperature and condition. It's really the best all-around fuel in the world.
@mikes3827
2 жыл бұрын
@null null Apparently you've never heard of FUEL ADDITIVES?? You know, preventing gelling, fuel line freezing, or increasing cetane levels ring a bell?? Or mixing 20% BIODIESEL with 80% petroleum diesel enabling engines to run for VERY long cycles without incident. Larger point being, diesel fuel is VERY FLEXIBLE, and GIVES YOU OPTIONS, whereas there is ZERO flexibility when it comes to frigid OR extremely hot conditions and car batteries. Glad to have helped enlighten you, Fredo ;)
@mikes3827
2 жыл бұрын
@null null Yep, you're a dope. Hence my reference to GELLING, or CETANE LEVELS. Here's a newsflash, Fredo: diesel that has higher cetane levels doesn't have to work as hard to warm up and can make starting in cold weather much easier. Ask yourself why Canadian truckers OVERWHELMINGLY RELY ON DIESEL FUEL IN WINTER MONTHS?? Duhhhh, could it be because they use the aforementioned FUEL ADDITIVES to keep diesel working in often frigid conditions. Again, glad to further enlighten you, Fredo (that is assuming you know where Canada is located).
@davidcaprio8919
Жыл бұрын
@null null I guess you have never seen ice road truckers.
@wt9653
2 жыл бұрын
Wow! 19 seconds 0-60. That's a true slug pace. I can't wait for Tesla semi at 5 seconds 0-60 empty. 20 seconds 0-60 fully loaded. Tesla semi is bargain at 150k with 300 mile range with full load 180k for 500 mile range with max 80k load. Delivery should start sometime before end of the year.
@1guyin10
2 жыл бұрын
The technology is feasible for certain applications. The price is going to be a big hurdle to overcome, especially when you add in the cost of charging infrastructure for them. It's easy to see why Cummins will be rolling out hydrogen engines. Even with advances in battery technology the electric heavy truck is going to have limited applications.
@jeffpitoniak
2 жыл бұрын
How long would it take to roll out hydrogen filling stations?
@neilduncan8657
2 жыл бұрын
I think in city hauling these would be better than diesel.less noise and awful smell...not ready for long haul
@hankwvu
2 жыл бұрын
As a firetruck, I just can't see it just yet. International chassies have been popular for rural/backroad volunteer departments. Those are situations where a truck may sit for a week. Then there may be a demand to run all day along with all the extra equipment. I just don't think I'm ready to put my life in the hand of EV's for a fire apparatus. However, with the EPA demand that diesel have the def systems, that is a horrible thing right now too. For example, the department I run with has a frontline truck that is only 3 years old. Pricing getting close to 3/4 of a million. But yet, do to a very unreliable system, the truck right now is collecting dust. Parts for replacement (the second time this replacement has been needed), is quoted anywhere between 2 and 6 months. I wonder how the 100+ square miles of residents (including a main stretch of a heavy highway) would feel to know they have paid for a useless truck. So right now is a bad time for the fire service. The only saving grace is the station has kept and pushed back into mainline service 2 20+ year old engines to pick up the slack. They work great.
@cragre28
2 жыл бұрын
I think a plug in hybrid and a small diesel engine is the best combination. Plug the truck in overnight and then take off using diesel and electric until you get to cruising speed and then electric only, until you hit a hill. Then diesel kicks in to help. Once the battery gets down so far the small diesel, say a 2.0 4 cylinder, starts using all power just to charge the battery.
@TobyCostaRica
2 жыл бұрын
As a PHEV owner I disagree, You get limited benefits of an EV (small battery/poor packaging), but the maintenance of a ICE engine.
@cerealtiller
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed..have said just that many times.
@adventurefishing3190
2 жыл бұрын
Thats not how it wrks.....ev would be used at low speeds, deisel for freeway.
@adventurefishing3190
2 жыл бұрын
Rofl charge the battery as the truck goes using the deisel? Lol thats not gonna wrk
@adventurefishing3190
2 жыл бұрын
A electric vehicle would never need help getting up a hill....they destroy ICE in torque
@Sport-wg2tv
2 жыл бұрын
And when the EV truck is fully loaded you have a range of like no miles this will not work until the range is better
@User.Joshua
2 жыл бұрын
Great option if you have the ideal use case for it. I personally believe the energy density needs to be 3x the mount to be a viable replacement for most commercial usage. Also the costs of batteries, that needs to come down a great deal too. I think the next 20 years will be very transformative for the auto industry.
@joshuawhitten1789
2 жыл бұрын
I cover 600 miles a day generally pretty easy, but I'm OTR. My semi full of fuel with all of my stuff and myself weighs in under 23000 lbs. Until battery density can create a truck that weighs very similar and can range 600 miles a charge, it's just not feasible for 70% of the freight hauled. I'm all for electrification in semi's I just think battery and charging technology is going to be pushing that 20 years you mentioned before these big trucks are capable of being replaced. I honestly hope I'm wrong.
@User.Joshua
2 жыл бұрын
@@joshuawhitten1789 yeah, I hope they can reach 7-10x much sooner than 20 years. OTR trucking will require many breakthrough technologies, I don’t think the Tesla semi is a real contender. I own a few commercial vehicles myself, so I would love to move on past diesel and high maintenance bills.
@theupscriber65
2 жыл бұрын
Have you seen the diamond battery concept? Idk if it'll ever come to fruition but it's a cool idea. They take by product from spent nuclear rods, encase them in manufactured diamond and have a battery that lasts for thousands of years. (Theoretically)
@HagersvilleHunk
2 жыл бұрын
was going to leave a comment like electric in town and diesel for highway...but thats pretty much what all the comments say too. Good review, learned a lot, thanks.
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