I’ve really enjoyed fast hands on my fast shooting ARs. It’s gotten me out of jams and helped me quickly take out critical targets before they have a chance to hide again. Especially like it for legendary even over strained, measured and optimist. Great to know slower weapons don’t retain the value return from it. Thanks for sharing!
@grumpyoldman6503
Жыл бұрын
For sure fast hands is the 'best' DPS talent, in the context of sustained DPS (over a whole mission). One of the many reasons I like the Big Horn (despite it's natively poor handling) is the quick reload (on a smaller mag given, but it's like 1.5sec in the configuration I use)- it frequently lets me reload and finish off a target instead of leaving me high and dry, and dead when up close and personal/out of cover.
@stephenjohnson6841
Жыл бұрын
Hell yeah! I really appreciate all the great information! I love seeing the data to confirm or deny the feel of different weapon systems. Thanks again Fog!
@christrites4251
Жыл бұрын
Good video and information that has been lacking in the last couple of years with Division content creators, great job.
@bigjay52
Жыл бұрын
Yo, These are sooo clutch... I'm in my building phase...Thanks 👍
@Kjklump
Жыл бұрын
A little bit of weapon handling is completely overlooked by a lot of players and content creators, particularly on controller. I found this out trying to put together a build for DZ. Sometimes you just cant find that piece with cc/cd and the talent so you can roll armor. While just one roll didn't really stand out on while using the ACR, it made a noticeable difference on my AK-M. There's a quote attributed to Wyatt Earp " Fast is fine,but accuracy is everything in a gun fight. You need to be slow in a hurry." It's been changed wnd reworded through the years to things like "speed is fine, accuracy is final." "You can't miss fast enough" I feel like with this game wnd alot of others ,players just slap on whatever some flashy titled content creator suggested without first diagnosing their personal abilities. Great video
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Smooth is fast.
@redporschekilla
Жыл бұрын
Fog…. Please see the following as a absolute admiration and compliment! You’re needing out AF! I truly enjoy your content. I’m a daily and level 24ish on Xbox X and I learn so much more from your insights! Thanks a lot m8
@wbeytel
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this series of videos Fog. It was fantastic, the best analysis of the Division 2's shooting systems and mechanics I have seen.
@Daniel-bm3fm
Жыл бұрын
Loved the series. Well presented and explained! Look forward to more from you mate!
@runuts6664
Жыл бұрын
Great info! For me there is one more factor when I chose a weapon to use, DISTANCE to the target, in a closed area, I would use a high dmg weapon/fast reload (don't really care about accuracy since mobs all gonna be in close contact), in a open area I opted to use a good handling.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Weapons are tools. Right tool for the job. Good news is we get to carry more than one.
@mattipanduro8583
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely love these m8, thx for the immense amount of work put into them! You seem to end off your videos by saying “thank you very much… hope you’ve forgotten allot of information on it” like wth? 😄😂
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Haha. Aussie problem of rolling words together. If you punch it into Google Translate it says "Hope you've gotten a lot of information from it".
@mattipanduro8583
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 haha yeah I figured it was something like that but aften hearing you say it multiple times I had to ask 😄
@paulcuk3066
Жыл бұрын
Very informative Fog, I’m going to try a few different weapons as I’m on Xbox 👍
@robertg5792
Жыл бұрын
Great presentation. Look forward to more content.
@Chris-wu2hc
Жыл бұрын
Been waiting for this one. I haven’t found it to be worth the sacrifice to damage to add weapon handling minors, if they were at least 15% instead of 8% I might reconsider.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
At 15%, they'd be OP. The more experienced you are, the less the handling is worth the trade off. You're closing the distance more, making accuracy less of a concern and you're already controlling the weapon close to it's max handling. But don't discount reload speed.
@Chris-wu2hc
Жыл бұрын
I don’t know that it would be OP, you still have to be able to aim. It might mess up the weapon balance, but there are already the ‘go to’ weapons and ones that are barely used so 🤷♂️. I’d be pretty happy if I could make my Kingbreaker feel more like a carbine 7 without losing 24% CHD. There are talents that give stupid amounts of weapon handling but I prefer to play far too aggressively for those to be worthwhile.
@grumpyoldman6503
Жыл бұрын
just curious if you play with a KBM or the console. I find that weapon hanlding (and brands that add something to that effect) are pretty darn handy for upping hit%, especially at range. But maybe you are a CQB KMB guy?
@Chris-wu2hc
Жыл бұрын
@@grumpyoldman6503 I play on console with a controller (Xbox), and I don't disagree that extra weapon handling is very beneficial at range (>30 m). I tend to move a lot and close the distance so I personally find +24% CHD to be much more useful to burst down enemies
@grumpyoldman6503
Жыл бұрын
@@Chris-wu2hc you probably already have plenty of damage, just FYI. And hitting your shots is always going to increase your DPS more than your stats. Not to mention not dying due to reloads. If you aren't at 100% accuracy, that's going to give you a larger return, at all ranges.
@Snakes.StartToSing
Жыл бұрын
Carbine 7 is such a great weapon
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
It does feel nice. Sounds good too. Hard to get a god roll one though.
@Snakes.StartToSing
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 yeah true. I got one with dttoc and I'm optimizing it little by little
@grumpyoldman6503
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 stupid fixed talent. But to me it feels very middle of the road; overhyped IMO (based on rarity/PITA to acquire I have to assume).
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
@@grumpyoldman6503 Just finalising my Optimal Range data for the ARs. Looks like the Carbine has a higher floor than most other ARs. Might be unknowingly biasing peoples' preference.
@vilandesch
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 after watching your video on optimal range i did some testing on the range according to the range indicator @ Ranger, the 50m target in the range is actual 48m away; my results for Carbine 7 and FAMAS are: Carbine 7 Base Damage @ optimal range (35m): 47011 @ 48 m : 41191 -> loss 12,38% @ 48 m /w 20 % optimal range scope: 44521 -> loss 5,3% M4, Honey Badger, FAL are in the same ballpark < 6% FAMAS Base Damage @ optimal range (28m): 44191 @ 48 m : 37696 -> loss 14,7% no 20% scope available
@Malacite
Жыл бұрын
Nice was waiting for this one. Didn't really go into detail quantifying WH quite the way I would have liked to have seen, but nonetheless still some interesting data points. This is why I like to often comment and remind people that while not as strong as crit, WH is very much an underrated attribute particularly on console ( I play on PS5 for reference) As I mentioned before, I have a WH build that combines Braced (didn't know there was a Perfect version, might switch to that later but then I'd need to replace another piece to account for brand bonuses) and Composure to get handling and damage bonuses while in cover in tandem with The New Reliable, and handling rolled on all but 1 item as well as +20% from Petrov and Overlord. The result is an LMG with near instantaneous reload speed that maxes on accuracy almost immediately as well and has virtually no recoil or drift. No, it doesn't hit nearly as hard as a dedicated crit setup but at least I know if I miss any shots it's purely my own fault because it's a freaking laser beam. I've also found that it only takes a little bit of handling to make The Kingbreaker pretty damned accurate as well, despite what your chart says about the TKB.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
I'll provide the quantifying with the next comparison. Regarding the TKB/King Breaker, those weapons with the worst handling stats will benefit the most from the attribute. Know the weapon's strengths and weaknesses ;)
@MrChu21
Жыл бұрын
I do feel as though it depends on how much weapon handling you have in the build, too. For example, having a build with a build with 110% weapon handling would be a lot more different than having 75% of it, especially when it affects stability and damage reduction
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely. And the worse the handling is to begin with, the bigger the difference adding Weapon Handling to your build makes.
@hutchler
Жыл бұрын
The part at 12:08 has me slightly confused - reload speed isn't factored in burst (burst is total mag damage/time to fire single mag in seconds) - so I'm confused how things are topping burst charts due to their reload speed?
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Hey Hutch, I definitely factor reload speed into burst fire DPS. You're using the old metric. My Assault Rifles ranked video explains how the weapons achieve their rankings, which is where those rankings come from.
@hutchler
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 I'm honestly not trying to be difficult here, but the 'old metric' is the one the rest of the community uses currently and the one that many other games use too. Burst has always been about mag damage per second, and sustained is where reloads come into it. If burst now = sustained, then what is sustained, and what's the new term for what we all call burst?
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Old burst = 1 mag dps. It can only be used for comparison up to the point that the fastest firing weapon finishes its mag (2.5s - vector). Fights last longer than 2.5 sec. I know it's hard to get rid of the indoctrinated ideas of damage but the old metric really has no relevance to actual gameplay.
@hutchler
Жыл бұрын
It only holds no relevance to actual gameplay if one is snapping target to target and only limited by the reload time of the weapon, which I'm yet to see gameplay from anyone demonstrating in Div. That viewpoint also assumes that reloads are all 'wasted time', whereas upon reviewing footage, many (myself included) use reloads to move around, line up the next shot etc - meaning burst is utilised much more than you'd think, as each kill can then be viewed as it's own instance. DPS is a rate by definition (damage per second), so you can't assume an endpoint (like the vector), because then it stops being a rate and starts becoming a metric of damage over x time. This is because, as we all learnt at school, rates defined by 'x per y' in actual terms mean 'x divided by y' - but what you're saying is it now means 'x divided by y UNTIL z', which is incorrect. If we look at a totally different rate - water flowing through a pipe - let's say it flows at 1 ml per second. We want to measure how long it'll take for a litre to flow through the pipe - which will be 1000 seconds. What you're describing, is that we should now redefine water flow rate across the world to mean the amount of water sent through any given pipe in 1000 seconds, which would no longer be measuring a rate. I understand what you're saying, but I also don't think you can use already pre-defined variables, which are rates, to define any of this, which isn't a rate - as I say, burst and sustained dps are rates with specific and agreed criteria, used in pretty much any game with a build system (destiny 2, warframe, genshin impact and so on). Happy to continue this chat in Discord if you want to take it off of YT :)
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
@@hutchler We can discuss on Discord but your argument and the old metrics are founded on the false premise that DPS is a constant rate. I'm saying that if you define the race to be 1000sec, I'll tell you which pipe will win and what the average of its varied flow rate was over the whole race.
@jimmymarcussen4976
Жыл бұрын
Very pro mate😎😎 . Just subscribed.
@Privacy_in_public
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the hard work 😓 👍
@AdamJWM
Жыл бұрын
I use the Glory Daze almost always because my aim is terrible and I figure if I can be on target I’ll do more damage. The stability is + 100%. So it’s real stability is 100 it’s probably like 190%.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Glory days is massively hurt by its optimal range. It actually makes it one of the worst performing weapons in Div 2. It's counterproductive. If youre inside the reduced optimal range and not suffering reduced damage, you're probably at a distance that the extra handling isnt adding very much to your rounds on target.
@Privacy_in_public
Жыл бұрын
I never noticed a big change with weapon handling on AR but I do notice it with LMG. I have a pestilence build w/handling. Are you going to something else after this?
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
AR comparison, with accuracy and optimal range included, next. Then weapon talents. Some other topics sprinkled in between.
@gaddocknz2476
Жыл бұрын
With this information how viable does and L86 or RPK become?
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Haven't looked at the LMGs yet.
@ashram_belddod-pc7772
Жыл бұрын
Stability can exceed the 100% mark of the weapon stability, this was confirmed by the dev some time ago, that's why the glory days is so stable it has the stability of the P416 +100% from its talent putting it a 190% more or less,
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Okay, makes a little more sense. Wierd, but okay.
@Daniel-bm3fm
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 I've seen this in other games. Does make things confusing at times!
@ashram_belddod-pc7772
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 It's similar to the way skill haste function, even the glory days, as some sway when fired ever so slightly, It pulls right somewhat unnoticeably to the inexperienced user.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
@@ashram_belddod-pc7772 I explain the Glory Days' right hand pull in my Accuracy Conundrum vid.
@ashram_belddod-pc7772
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 I didn't see that vid of yours I'll look it up Fog.
@my0866
Жыл бұрын
Why comparing a Famas, which is based on a real weapon to the Bullet King which is totally fictional (in the case of never having to reload).
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
It's a compulsion. I'm trying to cut back.
@JunduTo
Жыл бұрын
I Wonder how weapon handeling benefits rifle and marksman rifle
@JunduTo
Жыл бұрын
I Wonder if its worth getting 16%crit chance over 16% weapon handeling on my sniper build
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
It reduces weapon sway. Reduces bloom and increases the speed the bloom returns to static. Reduces recoil. But how much benefit, I haven't looked into yet.
@PapaRunebeard
Жыл бұрын
if you want the scope to not to move thats accuracy, wh gives everything . . . well wh related including reload speed and ads so you can chain shots faster assuming you are refferring to bolt action ones if you are using semi-auto, stop it >:D but obviously autos would get more value out of it
@michaelreed6858
Жыл бұрын
So essentially size DOES matter!! 😁
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
It's not the size but what you do with it ;>
@Raucey
Жыл бұрын
"The Capacitor and the Bighorn were number 1 and number 2 in burst damage, mostly because of this statistic, reload speed" Ok, so that's by definition not burst damage then... If you want to use some version of a TTK metric then fine, but you need to be clear what your doing since that is very clearly not what burst dps is defined as. I'd recommend you come up with a new name for your hybrid metric (although I've tried to explain the issues with your hybrid calc in previous comments) because right now by calling this burst dps is going to confuse/mislead people who aren't following 100% of the details and are just looking at your end rankings. The range even helpfully states that it is a TTK metric when you discover that the bulletking is a higher dps than the famas. The famas by definition has a higher burst dps by far than the bulletking while the bulletking is the absolute king of sustain dps, but has very poor burst dps. The low burst dps despite the high sustain dps is why the bulletking is largely regarded by experienced players as not a good weapon, and the high sustain dps often tricks new players into overrating it. Also another thing to keep in mind in this comparison is that your comparing an exotic with a weapon talent to a famas with no relevant talent. This has a large impact when comparing the eagle bearer, capacitor, and bighorn vs all the other high end weapons.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
Hey Raucey, it is by MY definition of burst fire DPS - average wave of enemies, each one burst down; average damage achieved over time taken to burst down wave. I have also explained the numerous issues with the old metric, in numerous videos. I do use different names. What you refer to as Burst DPS, I call 1 x Mag DPS, because that's what it is. It has very little to do with burst firing. TTK is what this game is about. That's why I use the metric. I don't assume that new players overrate anything. I assume that they use a weapon because it feels right to them because they're getting the best results with it. I try to work out why they're getting better results with it. I agree that talents, when included, will have an impact but all talents are relevant. Survivability talents translate into DPS, like the Eagle Bearer's Tenacity talent, which I will be explaining in a future video.
@Raucey
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 Your using a known term for something else, and renaming the known term to something else you've made up... It would be far less confusing/misleading for your audience if you did that the other way around.
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
@@Raucey I understand what you're saying. It's the "known term" I have a problem with. Someone made that up too. Burst firing to me pretty clearly implies you are firing in bursts (multiple), which in turn implies reloading. So a "known term" for Burst firing, that doesnt include multiple bursts is probably the one that needs to change. Hence why I changed that term to 1 mag Dps. Because that's what it is. 1 mag of sustained fire. You can calculate a burst with it but it's not a burst nor is it burst firing.
@vilandesch
Жыл бұрын
@@fogowar2022 "Burst DPS" is the amount of damage over time of exactly one burst. A burst is the number of rounds you fire with one trigger pull. The burst starts, when you pull the trigger and ends, when the last round is fired. there are 3 ways a burst ends: 1. you run out of bullets 2. there is a limiter (e.g. 3 rnd burst on M16, M93R or MP5) 3. you release the trigger The timer of the burst starts with the first round fired and ends when the last bullet deals damage. Thats how the term Burst is used when you shoot guns in the real world. The purpose of firing in bursts is a) to increase hit probability and b) to save ammo. Burst firing or bursting down an enemy only means firing a number of bursts (from 1 to n). The moment you fire the second burst you are in "Sustained DPS" territory. It doesn´t matter if you fire 3 rounds, 10 rounds or 50 rounds with one trigger pull. The "Burst DPS" of each burst is the same. Its only depending on the damage per bullet and rate of fire. If "Burst DPS" or "Sustained DPS" ist more important, depends on the circumstances. If i can only pop out of cover for a fracture of a second to deal damage, "Burst DPS" is more important to me than "Sustained DPS". If i can stay out in the open and empty one mag after the other as fast as i can, then "Sustained DPS" is more important to me than "Burst DPS".
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
@@vilandesch If we're using different weapons and trying to compare damage, is it when I release the trigger or when you do?
@fountedakis
Жыл бұрын
I think you confuse DPS damage per second with sustained DPS damager over time
@fogowar2022
Жыл бұрын
DPS is damage over time. D/s. There aren't different types.
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