Worked for 4 years full time as a commission painter, ended up doing work for companies painting their upcoming releases as a freelancer. In that time I painted about 10 times more armies than I ever have for myself. Learnt a lot about costing, time management, efficiency in painting techniques etc. But it got to a point where I never felt like I was progressing because I didn't have time to push myself. Time meant money. I couldn't afford to mess around and try new things, so my painting became faster but my level stagnated. I got really really unhappy. In the end I shut up shop and got a normal 9-5 office job. It took me 8 months to pick up a paint brush again....and I was always a painter more than a gamer. Now I've applied those techniques learnt over the 4 years and I've started applying them to getting armies for myself done, but I am getting better because if I want to take a bit of time to experiment I can without fear of losing money. I am thoroughly enjoying painting again, and I even take on a few commissions here and there for single pieces or small warbands that I think I'll enjoy. I got out at the right time, it almost killed the passion for the hobby I've been involved in for 25 years.
@jacklangford7149
2 жыл бұрын
That's awesome to hear!! I went through something similar with school. Too much work completely killed my drive to create, however through proper time management, medication, and working myself up I've been able to not only paint every new model I get; But also get back into Gunpla! (a childhood hobby of mine) Keep up the good work!
@declanjones8888
2 жыл бұрын
@@jacklangford7149 Been there done that.
@sebulller
Жыл бұрын
so basickly you are telling us in your free time you didnt bother to improve.... jesus fucking christ. and you didnt even found a balance between what you loved to do and what you did? really... sounds to me like you got some issues.
@Rexie19
Жыл бұрын
I’m not reading all that but good job I think
@ggmontageai9737
Жыл бұрын
Have you tried painting in VR ?
@tando6266
2 жыл бұрын
I don't often watch your videos, but knew you really had to work for this one, thought I would throw a comment in for the algorithm as well. As a former commission painter I feel the pain, when I burnt out, it was 18 months before I painted again.
@Ninjon
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate you watching!
@Anecron1
2 жыл бұрын
Love your videos more and more. Finally someone being blunt about the time and effort it takes to make an army. So many youtubers make painting vids about "how to paint X" without the slightest regard that it's a warhammer model they are holding and that model goes in an army of some sort. 120 models is not unusual and if assembly + paint + basing + varnishing + cleaning up time between session comes to about 3 hours per model that's 9 full workweeks, lunch not included. If you have 1 hour a day on average for hobbying, it will take a full year to get an army finished. I wish more youtube painters would consider this before they release their how to-vids. Spend 50 hours on a model if you wish, but be clear that models is for display, and not how you get an army done before retirement. Thank you Jon, keep em coming!
@Muzza8888
2 жыл бұрын
Glad that scott didn’t succeed in demotivating you! Fantastic effort, have learned a lot about oil washed from you.
@ImpendingDuff
2 жыл бұрын
you literally hit on every reason i stopped doing commissions more than 2 years ago... and ive never looked back. i felt your paint through this video but saw great results and the owner has a beautiful army. great job jon.
@uruk_bye1232
2 жыл бұрын
My favorite thing about doing commissions is knowing that someone cared enough about my art to pay for my time to get it. It's very humbling.
@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnet
2 жыл бұрын
The opening skit is very relateable haha. I'm a commission painter and my queue is all one client. Sitting under my desk I've got: 3 riptides, 2 starpulse cadres, 9 SC Tau boxes, 9 hammerheads, 3 valkyries, 9 tuning fork battlesuits, and 9 hornets. "I'm fucked" sums it up nicely.
@degghi
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Jon, great video and great job in taking down all those minis! I'd never paint for commission (also 10$/hr? boy that's low wage...) but the video was still greatly inspirational to slay my own gray!!!
@ThePickleJar
2 жыл бұрын
These look superb! Loved the orange fluro paint, nice touch to really make the models pop. I've dabbled with commission painting but never any projects this big, fair play for getting them done dude.
@Bluecho4
2 жыл бұрын
"Yes, it requires an airbrush. But I think that it makes such a big impact that I'll definitely be using this step on all of my future armies." Plus, if you're even considering doing commission painting, you really should get an airbrush. It's a business expense, and it'll allow you to do your job more easily and efficiently. Work smarter, not harder.
@Chrisbo123
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome vid! I did 3 commission painting jobs while in my studies. I began hating it as it went from a hobby to a job pretty quickly. After that i never took on commissions again as my hobby is holy to me
@Baatosanabe
2 жыл бұрын
You have my highest respects for taking on such job and taking that opportunity to educate us.
@aarond1622
2 жыл бұрын
Tips I used to use for commission painting. Paint some of your minis alongside those of the commission. You're already 'assembly-lining' everything and there's always some of your own stuff you need to get done but lack full motivation to do. Takes a wee bit longer to do but you're killing 2 birds with one stone. Also, if you're doing the same scheme with theirs as yours, you get some more experience in. And IF you're doing the same types of minis (same army or project) keep the best ones for yourself and let the other guy have the (slightly) lesser job. Like the vid said, know your limits on what you can take on at any given time. A small project (like a Kill Team or Bloodbowl team) may be a good start for newbies. Full armies are...hella taxing on everything. And always ensure you're getting the best fees possible. Whether you use a tier system for quality and cost or guesstimating an hourly rate and time to do the commission, err on the side of you profiting more. IF you end up feeling you over charged them, you can always add in more detail or give them a kick-back on fees. They'll be happier if you do and that leads to repeat business and happy customers giving rave reviews and word of mouth business. Lastly, like he noted, take into consideration the cost of supplies as well as wear and tear on your equipment used. Xacto blades, clippers, brushes, and the like wear out eventually along with some wear to your air brush and compressor if you use that. That's a 'plus cost' in addition to your hourly time rates. Not even considering paints on top of that. And for a PS. Look into speed painting tips. From the airbrushing to the 'dip' method, always find ways to cut corners and take short-cuts while still achieving a good finished product that the customer enjoys. And uniformity of the 'army / units' is a key to a good finished product. Everything looking like they are part of the same force, except when asked to do so differently, really pays off. Most customers are looking for a nice, table top looking army. And table-top means 'Looks great at arms length!' 3-4 feet away from your face. Thus, getting all the fiddly details isn't that important UNLESS paid to do so by request.
@STIPanda
Жыл бұрын
But then youre cutting into the clients paid time. Essentially, thats considered "Time clock fraud" or theft, if youre not careful on how you log your time etc.
@bernardorodero8374
2 жыл бұрын
I'ma comission painter and what you mention in min 8:00 aprox. is exactly what drives me, I love having a finished product for someone else, so much more that for myself, I paint my armies tabletop and lazy, but I love putting the extra effort in someone else's
@shanewalker3427
2 жыл бұрын
That under shading changed everything.
@naphaneal
2 жыл бұрын
They're still boxed. Imagine the nightmare, if they were horridly glued together.
@TheBuefurd
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Jon.
@tomsimo6815
2 жыл бұрын
My dude, long time watcher short time sub. Wanna say I love the vids and all the hard effort you put in, you can see the passion and have often ignited the fire in me to keep going with the hobby. Keep it up bud love ya
@thomasnielsen5151
2 жыл бұрын
I loved them every step through except the last orange glowjob... Also I like the video and your points very much thank you!
@SammyBubbles
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Jon - first time commenter, long time viewer. First of all, love your channel and your content, you're killing it! Secondly, this video is surprisingly well timed! I just started commission painting a little over a month ago and I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far. The insight you provided in this video is highly valuable, and fortunately everything you covered here I heavily considered before taking on a (pre-assembled, thank god) army order. I've got 80 figures that will be on my plate soon, but I'm super excited about the nature of the commission. Wish me luck! Keep on painting!
@Niohimself
Жыл бұрын
I thought the title meant "do not paint a stranger's warhammer army (without permission)", like a guy just randomly taking your minifigs and painting them to their own taste
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
I just finished my Perfect Grade Gundam GP-01 today. I airbrushed the red and blue parts but I left all the white as is. Probably about 100 hours start to finish
@toogreytogame
2 жыл бұрын
Although not a commission as such, I painted up some Ambots for my brother's Xmas present (he knows!). I used it as a chance to try out grimdark. Unfortunately for me, I fell in love with the minis and the paint job, and it's going to hurt a little to hand them over.
@mandowarrior123
2 жыл бұрын
They're like sauron's rings or horcruxes, you put a little bit of your soul into each piece.
@juancarlos-hf7bj
2 жыл бұрын
What I´m going to say (or write) can be applied to many other aspects of life, not just commissions on paiting, but always try to take pride in what you are doing, no matter how simple or easy it is for you. This doesn´t mean it has to be perfect. Always avoid working on something just because you have to get it done. For me personally, it helps a lot when I´m tired of working on certain things to think of all the parts that involve doing a project like this as a whole, wich helps me avoiding either getting frustrated or getting over excited (can also be armful sometimes). Work hard not because you are getting paid or because someone expects something from you but because you want to be proud of your work. Sounds dumb and obvius, but we all forget it from time to time.
@kyussinchains
2 жыл бұрын
I fell into commissions by accident, sold some painted ogres to a guy, he came back and said he would buy the rest of the army if I painted it.... Offered me a decent price so I did it And HATED it.... Every evening I'd get in from the day job and then be thinking that I'd be painting these damn ogres all night So I stopped for a few years, then took a few more on and found it really handy to pay the bills when sprog #2 arrived, plus my buddy let me use his airbrush which saved soooo much time I don't do them any more because I was in danger of burning out and losing enjoyment for my own projects, it definitely taught me a lot, and I know that I can always fall back on it if things take a turn! Great video full of useful advice, the bases especially were inspired!
@foxtayle683
Жыл бұрын
As a commission painter I knew exactly what was up as soon as he entered the room with that box. My feelings exactly 😄
@9000ethanator
2 жыл бұрын
Those P3 paints look so silky smooth.
@Ninjon
2 жыл бұрын
They really really are
@gggfx4144
2 жыл бұрын
Great video again Jon, really enjoyed. Do you think that your drive to finish the army as a job vs. your drive to finish your own projects shows something about the value system we have regards work/personal time in the west?
@Ninjon
2 жыл бұрын
Hmm a very interesting question to ask! I think there is likely something to it
@overbehindunder
2 жыл бұрын
Yes Jon, we read the captions from the index - thank you for doing those, its awesome :)
@jonhahn6557
2 жыл бұрын
I feel you on the insurance thing. My girlfriend has good insurance and we still have tons of bills and co-pays for her medical concerns.
@b.lloydreese2030
2 жыл бұрын
Painting warhammers for myselfnis already a pain...no one can afford what I'd charge them. I painted a normal adeptus set - only one set - for myself and it was a chore.
@salvation7362
2 жыл бұрын
I don't have to paint any of it and my anxiety is already maxed out after seeing it all primed and laid out on your table. Eeek.
@Jehrid
2 жыл бұрын
Mr KZitemr. I didnt know any other way to get in touch. I bought your Slay the Gray hoodie and this thing might be the most comfortable hoodie I've ever worn. It's fan-freakin'-tastic buddy. Thank you
@alistairmacrae4993
2 жыл бұрын
I’m right in the middle of painting 30 Ad mech rangers. A lot of time got eaten up just dealing with the lines where the front and back of the robes meet :/
@mikael8433
Жыл бұрын
I made the mistake of helping a friend out by painting his minis from time to time. He ended up tearing weapons off to give them new ones once a new edition was out, took too much time away from painting my own models, and eventually he ended up selling them to start a new army meaning all my work to help him out was for nothing. Not painting your own minis mean you lose respect for the love put into the model. I do not recommend painting other people’s models.
@XeroShifter
2 жыл бұрын
I read them, so I appreciate the labels.
@igorigor3960
2 жыл бұрын
final orange airbrush work ruined the models
@hipolytos
2 жыл бұрын
Yo Ninjon! Thanks for the video, and all the others aswell. Always enjoy seeing your vids. Joining your patron now, so you can keep painting and well.. living! love from Denmark
@biglacheese7449
2 жыл бұрын
You should almost always add materials cost into any physical commission work you do. This can definitely be flexible depending on the clients budget and what kind of thing they’re looking for, you can do it different ways whether a flat budget the client is comfortable with, an itemized invoice, or if you already have the materials you can factor it into the estimate. I’ve done all these it depends on the project and the client, But regardless of how you do it you should always be compensated for at least most of the materials you use on a commission piece. I’ve never been commissioned for any model painting before so I don’t know the intricacies or what’s standard for the community, but in every other commission art medium it’s always standard that the client will cover materials costs. Edit: also he mentions it in the video but he is correct you should ALWAYS get a deposit before beginning a project for someone. doesn’t have to be 50%, I usually go no lower than like 20% though
@brago900
2 жыл бұрын
My advice for these types of jobs is simple: Agree on a test job of a single miniature that is paid when the miniature is delivered, if the result is what the person who hires you wants and you accept the work, then the terms of the work and the payment are agreed. Obviously the recommended thing is that they at least pay you in advance the cost of the material, so if at the end of the work they refuse to pay you what was agreed, you can simply put the entire army up for sale without having financial losses.
@toportime
Жыл бұрын
Looks pretty good, especially taking into account you did this for someone else.
@buzzardb
2 жыл бұрын
Assembling that is my nightmare
@kkryptyk
2 жыл бұрын
When I heard the sax in the beginning and I saw you morosely handle the boxes, I heard Danny Glover's voice say, "I'm too old for this $hit..." 😆
@ryanbrandt5995
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for being so honest about commissions despite name dropping the dude paying for this the entire time. IMO that orange at the end looks horrible on the single models, but man, it looks amazing when the whole army is placed down together, brings them all together.
@raidenartworks7191
2 жыл бұрын
Yea I read those things. The little video chapter titles. I saw that.
@smoothbrush4722
2 жыл бұрын
Great work you did on those. I quit commission it is more fun to paint my own miniatures.
@kobudo
2 жыл бұрын
Having done a lot of commissions in the past I don’t think it was ever worth doing.
@GD-oh4pe
2 жыл бұрын
One thing I would recommend is do not cut yourself short on your hourly wage, regardless of how much you love it ($10/hr is way too low). If you're spending 10's (or 100's) of hours painting someone else's army, you will quickly get discouraged if you did not ask for enough compensation for your time and skill. You are not flipping burgers at McDs. You're leveraging years of experience to create something for another individual. Your time is worth money, as is theirs. That is why they are paying you, they do not have the time, skills, tools, or patience (or combination thereof) to do it themselves and so they are compensating you to do it. If you cannot agree on a level of compensation that benefits you both, respectfully decline the work. If they argue that they will do it themselves for that amount, respectfully welcome them to do that. Otherwise, you will always take the crappy end of the stick. Finally, cutting yourself short lowers expectations across the board and generally works to drive down compensation for everyone. Your skills are hard-earned and valuable, charge accordingly.
@YodasMessenger
2 жыл бұрын
I think i would never want to take money for a commission. If someone were ever interested in having me paint some of their models i would obviously feel very flattered and honored by that, but i think i would turn it down anyway or just do a one-off where i paint a single model for them for free for shits and giggles. Adding that obligation and pressure to the painting process is the last thing my neurotic and anxious mind needs when it already has so much trouble getting me to even start painting my own mountains of untouched plastic.
@mattheo7634
2 жыл бұрын
I LOVE your speedpaint videos, they are an insane motivation to play and collecting. Also yeah, we read those ;)
@farpointgamingdirect
2 жыл бұрын
I absolutely refuse to do commission work; when it becomes work or a chore then it's no longer fun. I turned down a commission to paint two Warlord ACW Epic armies.
@TheGateShallStand
2 жыл бұрын
Besides my very slim wallet, this is also one of the big reasons I dont have any models of my own yet, the damn painting. Sadly, while i would have the time to PLAY 40k every so often, with everything just happening I dont have the time to PREPARE for 40k, really sucks but I gotta budget time lately, lol
@kylewright7882
2 жыл бұрын
This has happened to me a few times this year, and some how I still end up agreeing to do it… I finally told myself no more as I’ve missed an entire year of playing cause I was painting other peoples stuff.
@HacksawsHobbyBunker
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent advice. When I finally stopped taking commission work, for a time I painted figures on spec - just picked out stuff that if it didnt sell I would be happy to keep. The downside of this plan was after a while I started feeling sad when someone did give me filthy lucre for my lads and they went away. I still miss you, French Foreign Legion troops *sniff*. Cheers!
@HelmutKohlrabi
2 жыл бұрын
Nick seems like the rich kid on a mission to save GW.
@hippiewrangler
2 жыл бұрын
My Private health company here in Australia said I need to go to the 2nd most expensive package they have to cover a new insulin pump because mine broke...typical
@Natival
2 жыл бұрын
God DAMN Jon, Haven’t even watched the whole video but watching you pour out that box is painful. Man I mean look at it, That’s pretty much the same as my next two years of painting
@phr00tpie
2 жыл бұрын
and here was me thinking the "big mistake" was shellacing a pint of day-glo orange bullshit onto every model. They looked fine until you did that :|
@leeperry7068
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, & great advice across the board. The end result was really cool... if I had to tweak ONE thing about it, I think I'd go a little heavier on that final dark oil based wash to get slightly more Grimdark with it, but overall it turned out amazing. Also, everyone without an airbrush, seriously, go grab one of those $70 Autolock cordless compressor/airbrush combos, it'll do all of this stuff and change how you approach painting. (not affiliated in any way with them, just loved the product so much I ended up buying 2) Also, screw the US health system, sorry you have to deal with that :(
@Camulation777
2 жыл бұрын
great vid as usual Jon, love this scheme, especially the bases, simple and effective
@wolfehoffmann2697
2 жыл бұрын
"I just paint up all these models and then someone decides not to pay me. What do I do then?" Easy. If you have the agreement in text or email, it counts as binding document in the US. You are completely free to then sell their now painted models on ebay or a trading group and get your money if they fail to make any sort of payment. I have never had to do this, but I have had to warn people who dragged their feet over paying me that I am able to do this in years past when taking commissions. On many bigger commissions I just worked out payment plans, as there was no realistic expectation that some people could pay me multiple thousands of dollars in one go. This was perfectly fine with me if the project was something I was going to have fun with and would be exceptionally fast, like painting a very large Imperial Guard army that was in excess of 350 infantry and characters and over 30 tanks and aircraft, including five Baneblade chassis.
@deividgarmar
2 жыл бұрын
I love this kind of videos
@loupiscanis9449
2 жыл бұрын
There is another cost , That needs to be mentioned . As a commission painter the hidden cost was , Cataracts , 2 of them , after two bouts of eye surgery am now fine , The doctor that helped me stated that, "The amount of mini painting ,was probably one of the main causes ,Why a 40 year old man had developed Cataracts ! So just a warning ,You only get one pair of eyes , take it easy on them, they have to last a long time, (hopefully ) . PS , Still paint minis , but not as a job any-more , :-) .
@mitchelldorcas9687
2 жыл бұрын
Psst. Don't tell your client...but ya missed a glowy bit @ 16:12! Don't worry. Your secret is safe with me!
@JakeDogg-RIP
2 жыл бұрын
My dad use insulin pens, the pen needles is free and the pens isn’t crazy expensive, then not work as good as pumps tho 😞
@ElPaviano
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! i've learned a lot!
@justinerickson282
2 жыл бұрын
I paint people's armies all the time, either way i get paid, either in their army for resale (they didnt feel like paying) or the payment we agreed on :D
@Detson404
2 жыл бұрын
These look amazing! As a fan of AdMech, great job, even if you weren't very passionate about the task.
@woodsy2232
2 жыл бұрын
"does anyone read these" yes yes i do
@MonsieurPopu
2 жыл бұрын
Gotta say, I do love your intros.
@RainMakeR_Workshop
2 жыл бұрын
So can any metallic be used as a primer? Or do I need to look for a specific type? If so, what? I'd like a darker metallic and a brighter metallic to for metallic zenithal.
@salamada007
2 жыл бұрын
Someone paid you to paint it to that standard? Jesus, easy money.
@Feralhyena
2 жыл бұрын
Same pump? Same pump.
@UnGeekCommeUnAutre
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, you mentioned in your previous video how you would avoid varnishing the base pigments in order to keep their "feel" real, but do you actually go through the varnishing phase on the minis after finishing your army? If so, what is your choice? mat or glossy? and also when do you feel "safe enough" to varnish your paint, as it would result in being almost impossible to modify the mini after... right? So... is varnishing a thing in your world?
@oliverp3545
2 жыл бұрын
I'd say with something that has alot of metallics that use metallic pigments it's better to not varnish, because first of all it takes more to chip and secondly you've got to debate wherer you matte it and let the metallics not shine or gloss it and then go over with matte medium but as a result dull the colour.
@barryhatchel
2 жыл бұрын
I do read the bookmark titles.
@s33n34
2 жыл бұрын
That look on your face… the size of box … the memory turning back to the podcast… *hit the like button out of pure sympathy* Having said that when is the yours and scot’s next podcast hitting my suggestions? ;-)
@lord17c
2 жыл бұрын
Just curious, how long did this entire project take?
@Izzyspaintingworkshop
2 жыл бұрын
Hey! Great video as always! The insight into the business end of taking commissions was helpful and that undershading technique looks dope as $@&+! That sucks about having to drop all those dollars on the pump and I wish you good health!
@Tremain
2 жыл бұрын
If someone decides to not pay you you'd just keep the army until they do, right?
@whowhatwhenwatch
2 жыл бұрын
ah yes orange heads in 40k....ya know like those weakspots that flash in FPS games.
@Hendarion
2 жыл бұрын
"Does anyone read these" 🤣
@mfairservice
2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy commissions. It shows my wife that there is a way that i can self support the habbit.. i mean hobby
@m.maschur5832
Жыл бұрын
Hi Ninjon, i'd like to start with oil washes. i want to use winsor & newton. what colors should i use here for null oil und agrax earthshade?
@asdfjoe123
Жыл бұрын
7:00 Nothing came up in the top right. Mind linking to the video in the description?
@MysterousBear
2 жыл бұрын
Man, breaks my heart when people are strapped for cash because of their healthcare. My mother in England is like an cyborg with NFC tags mounted to her arm that link to sensors monitoring her blood and a pump installed in her waist, and it's cost her barely anything to be turned into a diabetic Adam Jenson. Pretty sure the only things that will cost you here are 'voluntary surgeries', and I put that in quotations because a girl in my class got a state paid rhinoplasty because she felt self conscious about her big nose
@zacklastname2362
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, we do read these.
@anthonyneveu7217
2 жыл бұрын
I do, I read them Ninjon.
@NitroModelsAndComics
9 ай бұрын
I will do a character or two for someone. I did my entire D&D clubs main characters... For FREE. But entire armies are for me alone. I am currently knee deep in my Dark Imperium set, and whether I play them or sell them, a time will come to value them. Ho can I do this knowing what I put into them? Ultimately I may end up keeping them.
@O.P.S.C
2 жыл бұрын
great job
@jmalkvideos
2 жыл бұрын
You have to buy THAT MANY boxes to get 2000 pts?! Oh my…
@martinspinosa6035
2 жыл бұрын
impressive
@squirejj224
2 жыл бұрын
Good luck, I find Skitarii take me way to long to paint.
@douglasrood2650
2 жыл бұрын
I hear you, I am on medicade and my insulin is $44,000 a year, yes that number is correct I am on three different insulins and medicade doesn't cover shit.
@battlefocus1715
2 жыл бұрын
I read those
@evilcouchpotato6875
2 жыл бұрын
Liked and commented, just to boost the youtube algorithm and give the finger to the US healthcare system Awesome tips and walkthrough, thank you friend!
@nathank1512
2 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@inigomontoya6968
Жыл бұрын
I hope you're health is doing well. People don't understand that simply having "insurance" isn't enough to cover the myriad of medical expenses. Insurance companies will deny payment on things doctors deem a necessity. Why? Because the insurance company bean counters didn't find it "necessary" (what a relief they must've gone to med school). Case in point, when our insurance company denied our first daughters emergency MedFlight to the state children's hospital, despite the doctors deeming it very necessary right after her birth. I love my country, but we've got to get a handle on health care. Good, hard working, people are going bankrupt with "insurance".
@cap7nakshan147
2 жыл бұрын
Im not keen on the orange tbh
@crackedConstant
2 жыл бұрын
10 dollar an hour..? No way dude. Double or tripple that.
@The_WarL0rd_Way
2 жыл бұрын
I agree 👍 💯
@Ninjon
2 жыл бұрын
It was more just as a quick example with an easily rounded number. But I agree, that’s way too low
@inkslingerdrew
2 жыл бұрын
i know for me i always was an artist, i wanted to start tattooing, did it for 7 years, at first it was great. but now i hate drawing for people. i also quit tattooing.
Пікірлер: 1 М.