Thank you so much for this comprehensive and precise comparative content. I completely agree with your podium. Finally every time they ask me what is the best downscaler and why I can easily share your video.
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
Grazie paisano! I hope it makes anyone wanting to downscale make a decision which is the best device for their needs
@DhinCardoso
9 ай бұрын
Instant like just for the intro ♥ ~ hope YT recommend more your videos to the world
@MarcoRetro316
9 ай бұрын
You’re the first to mention the intro, much appreciated and thank you!
@AJ-po6up
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for mentioning the pricing, I've been interested in downscaling to 240p since 2016 and never could because all the downscalers are just too expensive for me, paying upwards of 200~300 dollars just to downscale to 240p is just absurd to me, and the affordable option like the modded Corio2s have always been unobtainable to me at a decent price and have only become more and more rare, so it's nice to see cheaper options like the pre-built GBS-Cs or the DExx come out in recent years. But don't get me wrong I'm still not happy about it, you would think that downscaling to 240p should be dead simple, since there's cheap downscalers that can output 480i from 720p/1080p, and yes they can be a hit or miss but there are some decent ones around that only add 1 or 2-3 frames of lag and can also do fast interlacing for 480p under 16ms for around 40 bucks. But we seriously need a dedicated 240p/480i downscaler that only does that and nothing else as fast and cheap as possible for retrogamers enthusiasts that are using emulation with modern GPUs or just want to play modern games on their SD CRTs, not bloated ones that in reality are not even meant for us but for retro console gamers wanting to play on modern displays. Anyways at least I've got ways to play modern games/emulators even at high resolutions downscaled to 240p nowadays but it's not plug-n-play and yes one it requires an old card with VGA while a modern one does the rendering, it's cost effective but getting harder as cards with VGA are getting rare, lag should be relatively low or non-existent. There's also low-latency local video streaming to a PC that has VGA/DVI-I using ethernet and a fiber optic cable to connect both PCs directly which keeps the lag under 5ms using something like Steam Link or Sunshine/Moonlight, you can even use a Raspberry Pi as they can output 240p on HDMI or do composite but that can be a hit or miss on the weaker ones that struggle with video decoding, works great on a RPi4 or 3B+ though, still I wanna see the day we get 240p/480i downscalers that can do this without breaking the bank and as plug-n-play as possible.
@MarcoRetro316
5 ай бұрын
Hey thanks for the comment. I do agree, a simple plug and play dedicated Downscaler with 240p/480i output made specifically for retro would be killer, sold at a cheaper price that removes the need for a beefy FPGA that’s needed for the upscaling side. I’m talking naively though as I have no insight to the engineering aspect. The cheapest solution that will get you all the input and output resolutions are probably a tvOne scaler, or a GBS with a piggy back downscaler, though a little messy with cable management. I plan on doing an episode focusing on MisterCast, PC GPU 15KHz output, and using a RPi (which is what I use to output 480i movies via USB as my PS3 and Wii can be fussy with video codec). It might be a bit much for one episode so I’ll see how best to tackle it to give enough screen time for each solution. The CRTEmudriver and Batocera users seem very happy with the output and is said to be the gold-standard for pixel perfect scanlines, provided you don’t mind repurchasing the game or obtaining by other means. Yet another rabbit hole
@parski
18 күн бұрын
I might have missed it somewhere, but how do you connect the HDMI output of the HDMI out scalers to a 15 kHz monitor?
@MarcoRetro316
18 күн бұрын
@@parski I use an HDMI to VGA DAC and then use this passive circuit circuit to combine HV sync www.retrorgb.com/building-a-passive-sync-combiner.html
@parski
18 күн бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 Brilliant, thank you!
@snesfan8935
9 ай бұрын
For me OSSC Add-on Board as stand alone unit is a GREAT thing for transcoding S-Video to RGB (Scart). None of my CRT TV's have S-Video, only Scart RGB and having this gizmo for 3DO Interactive Multiplayer or FM Towns Marty is a great option to have.
@MarcoRetro316
9 ай бұрын
It had double the flicker on 60Hz 480i, and 50Hz 576i Bob-deinterlaced to 240p. The workaround with the OSSC is to have the addon board output 480p instead of a transcoded signal passthrough. It otherwise worked well for 240p
@Heymisterbadguy
8 ай бұрын
Best series ever
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
Thank you my friend. A few more episodes to trickle out this year
@fvig2001
3 ай бұрын
What equipment is used with the 5x? Want to switch to it from corio2
@MarcoRetro316
3 ай бұрын
You have to use an HDMI to component transcoder for the input, and depending on what your CRT accepts, on the output either another HDMI to component DAC, or an HDMI to VGA DAC with a sync combiner for RGBs.
@flain283
4 ай бұрын
I haven't had much luck with downscaling on my MiSTer on my astro city 15khz MS9 nano CRT. It always looks crap and it doesn't seem to have many options in the mister.ini to fix much. It varies from core to core, but downscaling always seems crappy, text is often illegible. I'm going to take a good look at the dex kit, thanks for the video!
@MarcoRetro316
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for checking out the video! Why downscale the MiSTer at all if the CRT is 15KHz? You should be able to output native 15KHz without scaling, or do you mean you’re using MisterCade via Groovy MAME?
@flain283
4 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 Oh mostly for any cores that don't output native 15khz, so cores like ao486, Sharp X68000 and then even for systems like minimig/amiga some games are actually out of sync range (a lot of them are fine without using the scaler though).Some of the more obscure consoles also output stuff that the 15khz CRT doesn't like.
@MarcoRetro316
4 ай бұрын
@@flain283 I oh got you. The only outlet with the DExx is you’ll need 2 DE-10’s; 1 as a MiSTer and the other as a scaler as the DExx runs off a DE-10 Nano. At that point you might at well be getting an OSSC Pro to downscale. I use a custom 240p resolution in the INI file for AO486 core, I’ll post it as a separate comment later tonight though you might already be using the same modeline. I haven’t tested if it precisely divides the scanlines so text and sprites will probably scale unevenly
@flain283
4 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 That makes more sense now thanks! I am using a modeline for it (same as i use for the menu output) so i'm interested to see if its the same or not, thanks! :)
@MarcoRetro316
4 ай бұрын
@@flain283 I have this at the bottom of the ini file, you could apply it to other cores by putting the core name in brackets in place of ao486 [ao486] ; Set it to "Variable" in the ao486 core instead of 60Hz direct_video=0 vga_scaler=1 vsync_adjust=1 vscale_mode=3 video_mode=1280,152,140,261,240,15,0,19,30105 ; 4x3 for 320x200 games, 16.42kHz, 59.94Hz
@MagisterHamid
10 ай бұрын
I was planning to get a Corio but now when you mentioned how bad the input lag is it made me question my plans. Damn this make things difficult :-(
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
If low lag is your priority, depending on your budget the GBS and Retrotink5X would be for you. Then it comes down to if you need 480i output and >480p input
@MagisterHamid
10 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316to be honest my main usage will be to downscale Wii U and Wii games to 240p. How do the GBS compare to Corio2 in image sharpness?
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
The GBS is sharper but you’d only appreciate the difference if you were looking at both sides by side. Also consider that the GBS will drop lines and therefore you might notice shimmer like I pointed out in the Dexx episode when Downscaling Super Mario Maker on the WiiU. The shimmer is only noticeable with 2D vertical scrolling especially with repeating organised horizontal lines. If downscaling complex sprites and 3D games then the shimmer isn’t an issue. Essentially it’s ~2 frames of lag and smooth scaling with a Corio, or minimal lag and sharper downscaling that’s prone to shimmer on the GBS
@Neodestro
7 ай бұрын
3:09 wow I didn't know that thanks
@MarcoRetro316
7 ай бұрын
No problemo!
@pedroTFP
5 ай бұрын
Did you ever try MIMO Genius 2? It is very good!
@MarcoRetro316
5 ай бұрын
Not yet unfortunately, though I’d love the chance to try one to document for a video of its own. They’re hard to find nowadays
@pedroTFP
5 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 I bought the very last one directly from MIMO company a few years ago, I use it for downscaling only. I feed it with 640x480 VGA to downscale MAME and X360 and it is very good! With it I can avoid the hassle of a CRT Emudriver setup 😅
@MarcoRetro316
5 ай бұрын
@pedroTFP You got lucky! I reached out to MIMO Enterprise multiple times to see if they had any stock in the back but no reply. CRTEmudriver will be my next venture. Wish me luck
@pedroTFP
5 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 I’ll look forward to! 😄 About MIMO, I asked them if they’d ever go into a “Genius 3 project” but they said the initial cost of R&D would be substantial. I suggested them to look into crowdfunding!
@hunterrichert4329
10 ай бұрын
Cannot figure out how to produce 480i from the corio2. I've messed with resolution settings since I got it and spent countless hours scouring the internet with no leads. I see people asking the same questions but don't get responses. I tried your settings knowing they were for a widescreen display and tried to adjust for that but still produce either a scrolling image or 240p. Is there any way I could get an xml set for 4:3 screens from you or the settings possibly? Maybe a point in the right direction to do my own research? I've tried to research how 480i works on displays and have tried cross referencing crt emudriver settings but the terminology in tvones firmware seems foreign.
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
The XML file I flashed to the 750 unit has a bunch of 240p outputs but 480i was already there and untouched from the official firmware labelled ‘NTSC’. Do you have that resolution? The settings I wrote in the description were only to optimise HV size and centring for my TV. You could download the XML file specific to your unit and see if the NTSC resolution is there, otherwise download the 750’s XML file and copy the NTSC resolution settings over to your file or program manually. There is an interlace option as well in one of the menus which could have something to do with it. As for 4:3 optimisation, the height should be filled but there might be horizontal cutoff. I’d assume that would be fixed by reducing the H size in one of the several menu options. I would make a copy of one of the 240p output resolutions and play with the H size and position specific to that res before touching the global source options
@hunterrichert4329
10 ай бұрын
@MarcoRetro316 I followed guides to closely. At one point someone said don't touch the ntsc/pal presets (itll brick the unit) so I just avoided them altogether. That's awesome yeah they've been there the whole time. I just thought you glossed over making your own 480i setting and I didn't wanna bother you to ask until now. Glad I asked because I was getting sketched out by continuously failing to make my own timings. The sizing stuff hasn't been bad at all to figure out though. Also completely agree with your scoring btw. Have been waiting for you to drop this video and it matched my speculations. Although I feel this can't be the end of the road.
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
@@hunterrichert4329 I’m so glad you got it working! I’m always happy to help if it’s in the scope of what I know. And thanks for following the series. I’d say this episode is closure, but not the end
@MindForgedManacle
8 ай бұрын
Doesn't the Retrotink 4K offer 240p output as well?
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
Yes I believe it does output 240p but not 480i
@MindForgedManacle
8 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 Ahh, interesting. Might be worth looking for a DAC that can go from progressive to interlace and 240p then. I'm hoping such a thing exists, otherwise I'll have to wait for Morph 4K to release its analogue bridge add-on. I want a minimal number of scalers in my setup. 😅
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
@MindForgedManacle I don’t mind doing all the sync combining and DAC-ing as long as they’re passively powered, but I’m really hoping the Morph 4K delivers as the plug and play downscaler with the analog bridge
@MindForgedManacle
8 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 Now that I think about it, you might look into the Extron VSC 700 (or 500). Can downscale from 1080p to 240p as well as 480i. Based on RetrRGB's testing, you'll get 0-1 frame of lag (lagfree as possible, really): kzitem.info/news/bejne/145qt5OBr6OLdH4 And if you pair that with Ezcoo's 4k splitter (has a built in 4K->1080p downscaler you can toggle for split output), it should pair well with the Retrotink 4K.
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
@MindForgedManacle I featured the Extron VSC 500 is the Extron Interface Trick Video, it works great with picture resizing and is 1 frames of variable lag. But it only outputs as low as 480i ie no 240p output. It also has some screen tearing that was induced with horizontal motion in 3D games.
@Jagasian
10 ай бұрын
What about the RetroTink 4K?
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
A generous friend has offered to lend me theirs when they eventually get one but it’s a whole lot of money just for downscaling, if the feature is supported. I can only assume it would behave the same as the RetroTink 5X with line deletion and low lag etc, maybe with >720p input
@MrDrewseph
2 ай бұрын
Coriu lol
@MarcoRetro316
2 ай бұрын
@@MrDrewseph coryieww! There’s a suburb in Australia called Corio that the locals pronounce as Coh-Rye-Oh but I get the pronunciation isn’t universal
@jfroco
10 ай бұрын
Marco, thank you so much for this video and the entire series. Unfortunately, downscaling is a topic full of misconceptions and myths, such as lagging and scaling artifacts. It's not well-known, so your content is super welcome. As usual, your explanations are clear, engaging, and fun. Also, the tips at the beginning were great; I had completely forgotten about the 240p trick for the Dreamcast. Great to see the Aspect Ratio Police again!!! Thank you!!!
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
It’s my pleasure, thank you for following the series and for the always kind and constructive comments. It was a labour of love and while it’s the final episode for now, not the end. Pesky Aspect Ratio Police had to make a special appearance lol I’m glad the gag could stick. Thanks once again!
@Gabriel-xi3sm
10 ай бұрын
Where u found that information of DVS 304? Any thread about it?
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
Hopefully KZitem doesn’t eat the links. I’ll respond with another reply in case it does so you’ll know if they were deleted
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/x5pptx/extron_dvs_605_dsc_240p_downscaling/ www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/zv7bfw/sony_trinitron_pvm_2530_this_pic_shows_svideo_i/ There were cross-referenced info I also remember reading on shmups
@Gabriel-xi3sm
10 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 Thanks, i have a DVS 304 laying around and don't use that for a while, maybe i find use for this.
@joshuakelly9390
8 ай бұрын
This series has been fantastic! I'm very looking forward to future devices. I recently got a Tink4K and am looking into how to set it up with downscaling. Hopefully it performs as well or better than the 5x. There should be room on it for multiple downscaling options as well considering how much effort has been put into his prescaling and decimation work.
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
Thanks! I’m not sure if downscaling to 15KHz will be a supported feature on the 4K. It can certainly get it down to 240p as the pre-scale feature does exactly that. I do recall Mike stating that it won’t output 480i though. I have the PixelFX Morph 4K on preorder and would love to do an episode on the OSSC Pro when stock is available
@joshuakelly9390
8 ай бұрын
@MarcoRetro316 Definitely excited for that as well. The Tink4k can output 240p via a custom linemode. My set soon will be splitting the tink4k hdmi output and remotely controlling if it's downscaled or not. If it is, it goes to vga, then to scart, into my gscartsw. Here's hoping it looks decent. :)
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
@joshuakelly9390 ah thanks for clarifying. That sounds like a nice streamlined setup!
@ZezRetro
9 ай бұрын
haha retro boberino
@ZezRetro
9 ай бұрын
oh shit I got a shoutout, thank you dude! I am really enjoying these videos. Tonight I have a bottle of white wine and I am going through the series
@ZezRetro
9 ай бұрын
Do you have a twitter I can DM you on?
@MarcoRetro316
9 ай бұрын
Luigi (Louis)! Thanks for checking out the series! I seldomly use X and recently got onto Instagram. Forgive me as I’m new to both platforms but I’ll keep an eye out for a DM. You can find me at MarcoRetro316
@matherzinsstuff3410
10 ай бұрын
Great video!
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
Thanks for supporting all the way back since episode 1!
@matherzinsstuff3410
10 ай бұрын
@@MarcoRetro316 i will continue to watch all of your videos, your content is awesome!
@jgn
6 ай бұрын
I'd like to know a cheap downscaler with no input lag I want to play ketsui ps4 vertically on a CRT
@MarcoRetro316
6 ай бұрын
The cheapest Downscaler with low lag is the GBS-C. There’s a few hoops to jump through like the HDMI digital to analog conversion and the PS4 needs to be set to 480p. I’m pretty sure the PS4 won’t display through the GBS without stripping HDCP
@GeneralPetey
8 ай бұрын
Fantastic video, I've watched your entire downscaling series and it's given me too much to think about. I just saw that the ossc pro can downscale to 240p. 480i and 480p from 720p. Would you ever consider testing it? you deserve more subs
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
Thank you so much Pietro! I’m looking at getting an OSSC Pro when they’re back in stock for round 2 of the Downscaling Chronicles
@GeneralPetey
8 ай бұрын
@MarcoRetro316 are there any good places you recommend getting crt's from in Australia? Or do you just regularly check ebay, gumtree and fb?
@MarcoRetro316
8 ай бұрын
@@GeneralPetey all of them really but you have to be clever with search terms if you don’t want to pay ‘market price’. Try searching things like box TV, old television, analog tv, set top box etc. All bids in ACT used to be a good source for the occasional pro monitor but they don’t come up very often, even less on Grays
@DadLadsGaming
9 ай бұрын
New sub.....great video mate. I absolutely love content like this. I've had a mess about with the Tink 5x in 240p previously 👍👍
@MarcoRetro316
9 ай бұрын
Thanks for checking out the channel! When my wallet recovers there’ll be a few more downscaling videos to come
@jaredbrown691
10 ай бұрын
Amazing video. Currently trying to use the retrotink 5x to downscale ps2 games in my PVM. I also have a dvdo vp50 (not pro) but I don’t think it can pull off 240p even manually adjusting resolution.
@MarcoRetro316
10 ай бұрын
Thanks! You should have good results with the Tink5x and PS2. I didn’t cover 480i downscaled to 240p all that much and I totally see why when 480i flicker is more pronounced on high TVL pro monitors. I believe you’re correct that the DVDO VP50 non-pro won’t output 240p with custom timings. Dw, you wouldn’t be missing out on too much if it did
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