Great podcast! Looking forward to part 2,Sandras work highlighting the failings in our justice system and getting the truth out there has to be commended, 20yrs of her life dedicated to doing the right thing 👏⚖️
@scottyboy308
Жыл бұрын
Facts Sandra is so loyal to her mission and come across the Luke Mitchell case by accident but she's a good woman and 20 year deep into a life in prison your life is dedicated to get justice I believe
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Luke Mitchell went before a court of Law with 20 Chapters of evidence against him, which is a Lot for a sole defendant. The High Court Judge & Jurors - Saw & Heard that evidence & found him Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And after only 5 hours adjudicating due to such a Strong case. The biggest & longest trial in Scottish history, 42 days. He has had all the appeals he will Ever get & the Innocence Project rejected his application due to the Overwhelming evidence that showed Exactly what he did to this poor girl. He was also convicted that same for being a drug dealer. He sold his drugs to fellow School kids. His own Brother testified Against him & he nor their father have had Anything to do with him since the trial Nor have they spoken to that so-called mother since. They sure as hell have Nothing to do with this Shameful campaign, which is nothing but a nefarious marketing ploy to sell their books about Nothing & getting away with it Still because they know damn well that the public are totally in the dark about the Facts presented at Trial. Only the naive & the ignorant fall for it all. His highly sadistic Premeditated crime was so heinous & wicked it's likely that he'll Never get out. Sandra Lean & now Scott Forbes wrote books of BS to line their Own pockets & all the plotted media hoo ha for over 3 years on utube videos has some people hypnotised because that's the Whole Aim. Of Course they blame the cops, that's how Both lowly Con Artists rake in the hard-done-by members of society in particular. He tried to stage the scene as if a maniacal fiend had come across Jodi & somehow got her over & through that broken section of the stone wall & went berserk with a knife, yet she never made a sound. It's a Fact that most of the cuts were After death. He cajoled her with pot to Their place in the woods & knocked her out, had to, he was a simpy punk, the severe contusion on her brain told That story. The witness noticed the bulge in the pocket of the jacket, that disappeared. Poof, gone. That had to be something substantial in the pocket to stand out in a jacket that was big & bulky for that twerp. He thought he was smarter than the cops & told his mother that after the initial police questioning that night. She stated that Publicly in her interview with James English. He was Not & neither was She. She who worked hard to cover it all up. The crown put forth that he went back. In total he couldn't account for 3 hours. The police didn't know what time Jodi was attacked or died when speaking to him that night yet his false alibi was for that exact time frame of her death. What a Very telling Coincidence. Luke was Not home in that time frame of 5 to 5.30 & so, did not know if his brother was or not. Luke had left to meet Jodi before his brother got home from work. They reeled that poor lad into it the Next Day when the mother had sobered up. Their statements changed every time the cops went back to tell them info they found out, didn't match. They changed the alibi 3 times within the 1st week. Lean & Forbes have Never told that Fact. Jodi's grandmother, her sister & boyfriend realised they'd repeated to the cops what Luke had Told Them about the actions of the dog & so they amended their statement about that detail, that was All. Now I see that Lean has a big banner & posters as her next hoodwinking ploy, "MIA FOUND HER". The dog did Not climb over & through the V in the wall & so into the woods, ONLY Luke DID. It was proven that his torch did Not have the scope to have seen the body which was behind a big log & amongst bushes - on that pitch dark, rainy, starless night, At All. Lean always uses the wording of 'case papers' to Pretend that she had all the documents & all the statements from the trial, she does Not & Never has. She had paperwork from his defence lawyer for the appeal process from way back at that time, Nothing else. Over 40 police & seasoned investigators worked this case very carefully for a Long time. The police did an Excellent job to put that scumbag degenerate child killer Exactly where he needs to be.
@lukemitchellisinnocent2005
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant podcast! Thanks you all! Extremely interesting discussion around schooling the minds of my young people. Also those who have time to be offended. Who has time for that?? I know I don’t!
@justanothermonkey6887
Жыл бұрын
Never give up and never give in, at the end of the day someone will win 🏆 Twitching curtains is no longer an option, stand up and be counted or lie down and be trodden on
@astra47420
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your time Dr sandra lean luke is inasent justice for luke ✌️
@suzanneross1933
Жыл бұрын
Love this podcast. It’s fantastic to hear more about how Sandra got to the position she’s in today and about how she is able to look at what the police and courts see as evidence and pick out the truth.
@catherinehutton7094
Жыл бұрын
Fabulous podcast ❤ & what a journey Sandra,s soul contract has taken her on … the injustice & failings of our corrupt system have had a massive light shown on it because of people like Sandra willing to go that extra mile & risk & lose all that they have built up over a lifetime to highlight hidden truths that prevent justice being served. Keep on fighting! justice will prevail & all the systems failings will be for all to see. ❤
@theflyfiferspodcast
Жыл бұрын
This is just session 1
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Luke Mitchell went before a court of Law with 20 Chapters of evidence against him, which is a Lot for a sole defendant. The High Court Judge & Jurors - Saw & Heard that evidence & found him Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And after only 5 hours adjudicating due to such a Strong case. The biggest & longest trial in Scottish history, 42 days. He has had all the appeals he will Ever get & the Innocence Project rejected his application due to the Overwhelming evidence that showed Exactly what he did to this poor girl. He was also convicted that same for being a drug dealer. He sold his drugs to fellow School kids. His own Brother testified Against him & he nor their father have had Anything to do with him since the trial Nor have they spoken to that so-called mother since. They sure as hell have Nothing to do with this Shameful campaign, which is nothing but a nefarious marketing ploy to sell their books about Nothing & getting away with it Still because they know damn well that the public are totally in the dark about the Facts presented at Trial. Only the naive & the ignorant fall for it all. His highly sadistic Premeditated crime was so heinous & wicked it's likely that he'll Never get out. Sandra Lean & now Scott Forbes wrote books of BS to line their Own pockets & all the plotted media hoo ha for over 3 years on utube videos has some people hypnotised because that's the Whole Aim. Of Course they blame the cops, that's how Both lowly Con Artists rake in the hard-done-by members of society in particular. He tried to stage the scene as if a maniacal fiend had come across Jodi & somehow got her over & through that broken section of the stone wall & went berserk with a knife, yet she never made a sound. It's a Fact that most of the cuts were After death. He cajoled her with pot to Their place in the woods & knocked her out, had to, he was a simpy punk, the severe contusion on her brain told That story. The witness noticed the bulge in the pocket of the jacket, that disappeared. Poof, gone. That had to be something substantial in the pocket to stand out in a jacket that was big & bulky for that twerp. He thought he was smarter than the cops & told his mother that after the initial police questioning that night. She stated that Publicly in her interview with James English. He was Not & neither was She. She who worked hard to cover it all up. The crown put forth that he went back. In total he couldn't account for 3 hours. The police didn't know what time Jodi was attacked or died when speaking to him that night yet his false alibi was for that exact time frame of her death. What a Very telling Coincidence. Luke was Not home in that time frame of 5 to 5.30 & so, did not know if his brother was or not. Luke had left to meet Jodi before his brother got home from work. They reeled that poor lad into it the Next Day when the mother had sobered up. Their statements changed every time the cops went back to tell them info they found out, didn't match. They changed the alibi 3 times within the 1st week. Lean & Forbes have Never told that Fact. Jodi's grandmother, her sister & boyfriend realised they'd repeated to the cops what Luke had Told Them about the actions of the dog & so they amended their statement about that detail, that was All. Now I see that Lean has a big banner & posters as her next hoodwinking ploy, "MIA FOUND HER". The dog did Not climb over & through the V in the wall & so into the woods, ONLY Luke DID. It was proven that his torch did Not have the scope to have seen the body which was behind a big log & amongst bushes - on that pitch dark, rainy, starless night, At All. Lean always uses the wording of 'case papers' to Pretend that she had all the documents & all the statements from the trial, she does Not & Never has. She had paperwork from his defence lawyer for the appeal process from way back at that time, Nothing else. Over 40 police & seasoned investigators worked this case very carefully for a Long time. The police did an Excellent job to put that scumbag degenerate child killer Exactly where he needs to be.
@catherinehutton7094
8 ай бұрын
@@bethryan9077 first off thank you for your opinion debating both sides of the argument it is always a good start for others to use their own discernment upon what ever the topic might be. I’m struggling to find any counteractions from the Jones,s take on this heinous crime & following procedures & over all outcomes besides yourself. I have no doubt that there are other assumptions out there siding with the Jones family but as yet no one has taken up the offer from many podcasters to go on their stream to speak about it therefore we the public only have what so so many professionals & experts in their fields have to say about this case to go off on until the opposing side makes their voice heard. It is in my opinion blatantly obvious that the CHILD Luke was tried by media long before he reached the courtroom & therefore was set up to take the fall from the start. I’m also of the believe that the Child killer is still at large to this day. I’m assuming just by you bravely talking for the other side to this case that you may have connections with the Jones,s & many people including myself would like to hear what they have to say about the case & implore you encourage them to take up the offer from lots of people wanting to do an interview so people can judge for themselves what the bigger picture is,
@gazgano
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant ❤ beautiful souls bringing the failures of the system into the light! 🙏. Cath
@theflyfiferspodcast
Жыл бұрын
This is just session 1
@robertmiller4115
Жыл бұрын
Well done Dr Sandra leans,,,,,freedom for Luke mitchelle
@carolinefraser2802
Жыл бұрын
Listening but even Sandra just starting about where she comes from is lovely. Beautiful family. They days were the best days and Sandra's always been a lovely woman ❤️. Great podcast. Thank you all x
@KJosef24
Жыл бұрын
Were you pals with Corinne and Sandra before the murder - at the wee health shop?
@valyoung4104
Жыл бұрын
@@KJosef24 get a life
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Luke Mitchell went before a court of Law with 20 Chapters of evidence against him, which is a Lot for a sole defendant. The High Court Judge & Jurors - Saw & Heard that evidence & found him Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And after only 5 hours adjudicating due to such a Strong case. The biggest & longest trial in Scottish history, 42 days. He has had all the appeals he will Ever get & the Innocence Project rejected his application due to the Overwhelming evidence that showed Exactly what he did to this poor girl. He was also convicted that same for being a drug dealer. He sold his drugs to fellow School kids. His own Brother testified Against him & he nor their father have had Anything to do with him since the trial Nor have they spoken to that so-called mother since. They sure as hell have Nothing to do with this Shameful campaign, which is nothing but a nefarious marketing ploy to sell their books about Nothing & getting away with it Still because they know damn well that the public are totally in the dark about the Facts presented at Trial. Only the naive & the ignorant fall for it all. His highly sadistic Premeditated crime was so heinous & wicked it's likely that he'll Never get out. Sandra Lean & now Scott Forbes wrote books of BS to line their Own pockets & all the plotted media hoo ha for over 3 years on utube videos has some people hypnotised because that's the Whole Aim. Of Course they blame the cops, that's how Both lowly Con Artists rake in the hard-done-by members of society in particular. He tried to stage the scene as if a maniacal fiend had come across Jodi & somehow got her over & through that broken section of the stone wall & went berserk with a knife, yet she never made a sound. It's a Fact that most of the cuts were After death. He cajoled her with pot to Their place in the woods & knocked her out, had to, he was a simpy punk, the severe contusion on her brain told That story. The witness noticed the bulge in the pocket of the jacket, that disappeared. Poof, gone. That had to be something substantial in the pocket to stand out in a jacket that was big & bulky for that twerp. He thought he was smarter than the cops & told his mother that after the initial police questioning that night. She stated that Publicly in her interview with James English. He was Not & neither was She. She who worked hard to cover it all up. The crown put forth that he went back. In total he couldn't account for 3 hours. The police didn't know what time Jodi was attacked or died when speaking to him that night yet his false alibi was for that exact time frame of her death. What a Very telling Coincidence. Luke was Not home in that time frame of 5 to 5.30 & so, did not know if his brother was or not. Luke had left to meet Jodi before his brother got home from work. They reeled that poor lad into it the Next Day when the mother had sobered up. Their statements changed every time the cops went back to tell them info they found out, didn't match. They changed the alibi 3 times within the 1st week. Lean & Forbes have Never told that Fact. Jodi's grandmother, her sister & boyfriend realised they'd repeated to the cops what Luke had Told Them about the actions of the dog & so they amended their statement about that detail, that was All. Now I see that Lean has a big banner & posters as her next hoodwinking ploy, "MIA FOUND HER". The dog did Not climb over & through the V in the wall & so into the woods, ONLY Luke DID. It was proven that his torch did Not have the scope to have seen the body which was behind a big log & amongst bushes - on that pitch dark, rainy, starless night, At All. Lean always uses the wording of 'case papers' to Pretend that she had all the documents & all the statements from the trial, she does Not & Never has. She had paperwork from his defence lawyer for the appeal process from way back at that time, Nothing else. Over 40 police & seasoned investigators worked this case very carefully for a Long time. The police did an Excellent job to put that scumbag degenerate child killer Exactly where he needs to be.
@andrewgallacher2936
Жыл бұрын
Great listen looking foward to part 2
@ozzyzigwantsagig3563
Жыл бұрын
Thanks guys 🙏🙏
@straightupboxing2237
Жыл бұрын
Good video lads, looking foward to the next video on Lukes Case
@michelledocherty8769
Жыл бұрын
She really is some wumin x
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
"Somebody told me that somebody said that someone saw something that I recorded but can't play, have to be careful so can't tell what someone said so the legal team who I can't name has someone's letter that someone gave them a while ago & someone said the same thing but I can't say who that was & I have to be careful because that person works somewhere in the public but I can't say who that person is or where that someone works because they might lose their job like someone else said who told me sometime before but I can't tell you who that person is because I said I would keep it secret like I told someone else who I also can't name because they might get in some sort of trouble but down the track like someone else said who might say the same thing that was said before that I can't tell you about but maybe someday some person will come forward, like someone else told me & so, some things are all the same shit & you believe me, right?" 🥵"Not yet?" 🥺"Oh well I've got this in the bag, somebody will". 😬 "Good one sandra, great information, come back & tell us some more some time later". 😐"Yeah sandra, you know so many somethings, come back some day soon & tell us something else that someone said". 😑
@jackiehenderson1419
Жыл бұрын
Excellent podcast guys!
@suzanneross1933
Жыл бұрын
I think that it would help if the court took out the word “reasonable” when juries are told that they have to make a decision of guilt or innocence based solely on “beyond reasonable doubt”. Guilt or innocence should be decided “beyond doubt” or “absolute guilt or innocence”.
@Ann-qf5vk
Жыл бұрын
I'll get rid of the weeds 🤣🤣🤣🤣 thanks for a geat conversation guys.
@karendarling8701
Жыл бұрын
You wonder how many of the trolls are police and ones involved in the case who have to shout loud and anonymous out of fear of being found out!
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Luke Mitchell went before a court of Law with 20 Chapters of evidence against him, which is a Lot for a sole defendant. The High Court Judge & Jurors - Saw & Heard that evidence & found him Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And after only 5 hours adjudicating due to such a Strong case. The biggest & longest trial in Scottish history, 42 days. He has had all the appeals he will Ever get & the Innocence Project rejected his application due to the Overwhelming evidence that showed Exactly what he did to this poor girl. He was also convicted that same for being a drug dealer. He sold his drugs to fellow School kids. His own Brother testified Against him & he nor their father have had Anything to do with him since the trial Nor have they spoken to that so-called mother since. They sure as hell have Nothing to do with this Shameful campaign, which is nothing but a nefarious marketing ploy to sell their books about Nothing & getting away with it Still because they know damn well that the public are totally in the dark about the Facts presented at Trial. Only the naive & the ignorant fall for it all. His highly sadistic Premeditated crime was so heinous & wicked it's likely that he'll Never get out. Sandra Lean & now Scott Forbes wrote books of BS to line their Own pockets & all the plotted media hoo ha for over 3 years on utube videos has some people hypnotised because that's the Whole Aim. Of Course they blame the cops, that's how Both lowly Con Artists rake in the hard-done-by members of society in particular. He tried to stage the scene as if a maniacal fiend had come across Jodi & somehow got her over & through that broken section of the stone wall & went berserk with a knife, yet she never made a sound. It's a Fact that most of the cuts were After death. He cajoled her with pot to Their place in the woods & knocked her out, had to, he was a simpy punk, the severe contusion on her brain told That story. The witness noticed the bulge in the pocket of the jacket, that disappeared. Poof, gone. That had to be something substantial in the pocket to stand out in a jacket that was big & bulky for that twerp. He thought he was smarter than the cops & told his mother that after the initial police questioning that night. She stated that Publicly in her interview with James English. He was Not & neither was She. She who worked hard to cover it all up. The crown put forth that he went back. In total he couldn't account for 3 hours. The police didn't know what time Jodi was attacked or died when speaking to him that night yet his false alibi was for that exact time frame of her death. What a Very telling Coincidence. Luke was Not home in that time frame of 5 to 5.30 & so, did not know if his brother was or not. Luke had left to meet Jodi before his brother got home from work. They reeled that poor lad into it the Next Day when the mother had sobered up. Their statements changed every time the cops went back to tell them info they found out, didn't match. They changed the alibi 3 times within the 1st week. Lean & Forbes have Never told that Fact. Jodi's grandmother, her sister & boyfriend realised they'd repeated to the cops what Luke had Told Them about the actions of the dog & so they amended their statement about that detail, that was All. Now I see that Lean has a big banner & posters as her next hoodwinking ploy, "MIA FOUND HER". The dog did Not climb over & through the V in the wall & so into the woods, ONLY Luke DID. It was proven that his torch did Not have the scope to have seen the body which was behind a big log & amongst bushes - on that pitch dark, rainy, starless night, At All. Lean always uses the wording of 'case papers' to Pretend that she had all the documents & all the statements from the trial, she does Not & Never has. She had paperwork from his defence lawyer for the appeal process from way back at that time, Nothing else. Over 40 police & seasoned investigators worked this case very carefully for a Long time. The police did an Excellent job to put that scumbag degenerate child killer Exactly where he needs to be.
@tamaitchison6274
Жыл бұрын
The truth shall set you free
@ourwilliam2405
Жыл бұрын
Thats why hes not getting set free.
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
You can paint that on a great big banner & deliver it to lyin Leany. Thanks for that. Tell her I sent you special delivery.
@Ann-qf5vk
Жыл бұрын
👋👋👋 have to add I'm 68 and still learning 🤣🤣🤣
@KJosef24
Жыл бұрын
Does Dr Lean do investigations in cold cases? I'd love to hear about the Nairn banker murder maybe even with Prof Wilson too.
@namelinzinaw3564
Жыл бұрын
Free Luke Mitchell x
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Luke Mitchell was before a court of Law with 20 Chapters of evidence against him, which is a Lot for a sole defendant. The High Court Judge & Jurors - Saw & Heard that evidence & found him Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And after only 5 hours adjudicating due to such a Strong case. The biggest & longest trial in Scottish history, 42 days. He has had all the appeals he will Ever get & the Innocence Project rejected his application due to the Overwhelming evidence that showed Exactly what he did to this poor girl. He was also convicted that same for being a drug dealer. He sold his drugs to fellow School kids. His own Brother testified Against him & he nor their father have had Anything to do with him since the trial Nor have they spoken to that so-called mother since. They sure as hell have Nothing to do with this Shameful campaign, which is nothing but a nefarious marketing ploy to sell their books about Nothing & getting away with it Still because they know damn well that the public are totally in the dark about the Facts presented at Trial. Only the naive & the ignorant fall for it all. His highly sadistic Premeditated crime was so heinous & wicked it's likely that he'll Never get out. Sandra Lean & now Scott Forbes wrote books of BS to line their Own pockets & all the plotted media hoo ha for over 3 years on utube videos has some people hypnotised because that's the Whole Aim. Of Course they blame the cops, that's how Both lowly Con Artists rake in the hard-done-by members of society in particular. He tried to stage the scene as if a maniacal fiend had come across Jodi & somehow got her over & through that broken section of the stone wall & went berserk with a knife, yet she never made a sound. It's a Fact that most of the cuts were After death. He cajoled her with pot to Their place in the woods & knocked her out, had to, he was a simpy punk, the severe contusion on her brain told That story. The witness noticed the bulge in the pocket of the jacket, that disappeared. Poof, gone. That had to be something substantial in the pocket to stand out in a jacket that was big & bulky for that twerp. He thought he was smarter than the cops & told his mother that after the initial police questioning that night. She stated that Publicly in her interview with James English. He was Not & neither was She. She who worked hard to cover it all up. The crown put forth that he went back. In total he couldn't account for 3 hours. The police didn't know what time Jodi was attacked or died when speaking to him that night yet his false alibi was for that exact time frame of her death. What a Very telling Coincidence. Luke was Not home in that time frame of 5 to 5.30 & so, did not know if his brother was or not. Luke had left to meet Jodi before his brother got home from work. They reeled that poor lad into it the Next Day when the mother had sobered up. Their statements changed every time the cops went back to tell them info they found out, didn't match. They changed the alibi 3 times within the 1st week. Lean & Forbes have Never told that Fact. Jodi's grandmother, her sister & boyfriend realised they'd repeated to the cops what Luke had Told Them about the actions of the dog & so they amended their statement about that detail, that was All. Now I see that Lean has a big banner & posters as her next hoodwinking ploy, "MIA FOUND HER". The dog did Not climb over & through the V in the wall & so into the woods, ONLY Luke DID. It was proven that his torch did Not have the scope to have seen the body which was behind a big log & amongst bushes - on that pitch dark, rainy, starless night, At All. Lean always uses the wording of 'case papers' to Pretend that she had all the documents & all the statements from the trial, she does Not & Never has. She had paperwork from his defence lawyer for the appeal process from way back at that time, Nothing else. Over 40 police & seasoned investigators worked this case very carefully for a Long time. The police did an Excellent job to put that scumbag degenerate child killer Exactly where he needs to be.
@Pillion1
7 ай бұрын
I'm off 😂
@suzanneross1933
Жыл бұрын
Can I help grow the ‘cannabis’ 🤣🤣🤣
@Ann-qf5vk
Жыл бұрын
I'm absolutely not disagreeing with Sandra but collaboration between police and courts was happening prior to 2003?. So I'm thinking it's just been made official in white paper.
@Ann-qf5vk
Жыл бұрын
Formal education system always trust a policeman university of life system do I trust a policeman 👋👋 but I have to say I am grateful for a later in life education at university.
@tamthebam7323
Жыл бұрын
She’s a top notch slavering ring piece that’s what she is been friends with the family since before luke brutally murdered a innocent young Jodie! And since they locked the monster up the place has been safer!! Her and that dingle Scott Forbes just want to blame anyone bar luke the amount of people’s names they have dragged through all this is SHOCKING!!
@tamthebam7323
Жыл бұрын
@@Angelica-lo5qs so Luke had enough substantial evidence against him for a long time in the tin pale☺️ but u lot claim he’s innocent so ur saying it’s wrong to blame but then blaming with no evidence honestly couldn’t make this up aw he has mental health and smoked weed so he’s a murderer aye ok! Cause Luke’s no on a prescription ae☺️ and smoked weed with a mental illness tae. Just for the record there hasn’t been any unexplained or weird killings since the day he got banged up coincidence???
@bethryan9077
9 ай бұрын
Exactly & imo, they both should be locked up too.
@tamthebam7323
Жыл бұрын
1.2k views and 50 likes😂😂 speaks volumes we all Ken u are a slaver Sandra👍
@theflyfiferspodcast
Жыл бұрын
Not bad, really, for our very small channel, we've only 652 followers.
@tamthebam7323
Жыл бұрын
@@theflyfiferspodcast no worries pal👍 all am saying is Sandra’s a slaver Luke is guilty how many more innocent young girls murdered in past 20 years since the monster was locked up? Also Sandra has been a family friend of them from before the murder and ano this for sure!! So why the lies u need to question it all and think about the actually facts! Also all the people backing his innocence none are from the local area why? Just Sandra😂 mental stuff
@KJosef24
Жыл бұрын
@@tamthebam7323 She is a slaver, 20 years of pure unadulterated slavering.
@tamthebam7323
Жыл бұрын
@@KJosef24 100%👌👍
@valyoung4104
Жыл бұрын
@@tamthebam7323 your so wrong here. I’m from the area and with many others support Luke. Be sure to watch the update today 😄 truth is out and we’re not going away until the miscarriage of justice is reviewed
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