Because Alia tells Paul (via vision) that their ancestors are Harkonnen and Vladimir is their grandfather. They have set up that Alia is able to communicate with all her lineage so she can still be possessed by Vladimir and not disrupt the continuity of her character arc in my opinion.
@dasmysteryman12
5 ай бұрын
And the Baron might possess Alia as a form of revenge against Jessica and the Atreides line
@azmodanpc
5 ай бұрын
@@dasmysteryman12That would imply they somewhat compress Messiah and Children together. I'm all for it if done properly. Messiah isn't that long page wise. My hope is that DV does Messiah + Children in One big movie (or back to back 2 movies).
@plo617
5 ай бұрын
@@azmodanpc No offense, but compressing Messiah and Children into one film (even two) sounds awful. No, Messiah can be one film and is short enough to not need much change. Children definitely needs to be two films. More so than even the first book did.
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
it still hurts the tragic irony that she kills him, and he still ends up being the cause of her death though. Overall, I find it very cowardly of DV to effectively axe her from the movie. If you're too scared to adapt the weird aspects of Dune and think it won't translate well, then why the fuck even bother adapting Dune in the first place? Just my two cents, as an immensely disappointed fan.
@plo617
5 ай бұрын
@@stephengrant4841 Exactly
@mandostrikesback8744
5 ай бұрын
I think honestly I really missed the Spacing Guild and the proto navigators that should have been present at the end, they were nervous at the thought of Paul destroying the spice, and concede to him, and along with the marriage to Irulan, should have cleared up things for the Landsaraad instead of having to go fight them initially, the jihad kinda goes on after the balance of power has already been fixed in the book, I am hopeful for Dune Messiah to bring in the guild element though with Eldric, the Tleilaxu and ghola should be interesting too as well as Bijaz. Although granted even the mentats were way under utilized in this movie, I was confused in the Harkonnen war room on Arakeen those men seemed to be using computers instead of a mentat
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
They severely underutilized mentats in this movie. No Thufir is kinda understandable but still an immense disappointment for me.
@ProjectMathesar
5 ай бұрын
They’re definitely setting up for a big conflict between Paul and Chani in Pt3. People are gonna spend YEARS debating whether she kills or kisses him
@kenmartin5299
5 ай бұрын
Read the book
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
Which is a tremendous mistake imo as a massive book fan.
@WHR17
5 ай бұрын
Wonderful analysis, saw the film last night and really enjoyed it. Another difference is the omission of the history of the universe, the past reliance on thinking machines which lead to the Butlerian jihad and then the creation of the mental institutions like the Space Navigators, Bene Gesserit, Mentats and such. The new films really don’t take the time to explore these concepts which only reinforce the important of Spice. Maybe we get an extended edition in the future that fills in some of these omissions. Like the Lord of the Rings extended versions!!!
@hundredfireify
5 ай бұрын
I feel like these points are well explained in part one, and don't need more explaining in part two. The film was already packed full of important plot points. No time to do a retrospective of part 1
@toh786
5 ай бұрын
Thank you for the analysis! I just came back from the theatres and I pretty much enjoyed the entire film! The only thing I didn't like was Chani's character and the Northern/Southern divide they portrayed with the Fremen - Aside from that, it was a cinematic masterpiece 👌👌
@secretsofdune
5 ай бұрын
My pleasure!
@toh786
5 ай бұрын
@@secretsofdune
@loganastrup6870
5 ай бұрын
I'm very happy with how Alia was handled. The more I think about it a 2 year old acting like an adult would've been too wacky for general audiences and wouldn't have worked well in this more grounded adaptation. Also considering Children of Dune won't be adapted Alia not killing the baron I'm fine with since that only pays off in that book.
@Mentat1231
5 ай бұрын
I wouldn't be so certain Children of Dune won't be adapted eventually. But, I don't think this change will matter.
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
As far as I'm concerned its a cowardly move by DV. If you're too scared to adapt the weird parts of Dune because it might be weird to the general audience, why the fuck bother making a Dune adaptation at all? Just my opinion as a massive book fan who is very disappointed in certain parts of this movie.
@Kkstgch
5 ай бұрын
I don't know if it was fear he had 'adapting the weird parts of dune', maybe he was just streamlining the story by avoiding the timeskip@@stephengrant4841
@loganastrup6870
5 ай бұрын
@@stephengrant4841 I get where you're coming from but first of all doing the 2 year time jump and adding in Baby Leto and baby Alia would've added probably another 30 mins to the movie and it was already long. Also as much as I would've loved to see a toddler Alia, I dont think it's filmable in a believable way at all. You're asking way too much from the general audience.
@peace_love_unity
5 ай бұрын
Lynch did it, the 2000s mini series did use Alia as well. I mean I think, the general audience can accept a Sci fi, it's weapons, shields, mentats, space guild etc but not a speaking child? Lol no offense, but I don't think any audience is as stupid as you suggest. It was just lazy writing.
@peace_love_unity
5 ай бұрын
Since this was more of a fighting movie, the biggest mistake was not to include the wierding way.. It was a 1vs1 fighting method developed by Bene Gesserit that was thought to Paul. One could develop God like speed in fights where it seemed to the opponent like a short distance teleport. This was why no Fremen could ever defeat Paul, and he trained the Fedaykin to use this method to disrupt the spice production and eventually after years of training they had an army to beat the Harkonen using the wierding way... In the movie they just said they have nukes. Disappointing 🤷♂️
@markpdx
5 ай бұрын
I'm going to see this film 2 more times. So good and great video!
@wingthomaux
5 ай бұрын
I understand when side characters are being cut from a movie due to time constraints. Also I understand that they wanted to tone down the weirder elements of the book like baby alia running around the battlefield killing wounded harkonnen soldiers. But what I absolutely can’t get my head around is why they changed some characters so much, on the one hand things are being left out due to time and I guess not overwhelming new viewers, but in the other side they flesh out side characters in the book like they Princess and for some reason completely turn chani around and make her anti Paul. That bothered me a lot actually because it doesn’t even make sense only considered the movie universe. Chani is a fremen warrior fighting harkonnen her whole life, then she gets the opportunity to defeat them with her overpowered boyfriend, but for some reason is against this? I mean it’s not like that she can see the possibly horrible future that this path could end in like Paul, she’s got no idea about that. Even if you go with her more religiously sceptical version of the new movies, it still doesn’t make sense to me that she at least out of an utilitarian motive would be for Paul leading them to victory against the harkonnen. She wants him to go south, he’s says he will go and do what is necessary, so she knows that, but still gets pissed when he drinks the water of life? I also didn’t like how they focused so much on the Bene geserit being that powerful, I mean they are very influential in them books, but not to the degree that they manipulate every move of the emperor. Again this doesn’t even make sense in the movie universe. In part 1 they demand from the Baron that Jessica and Paul may live to preserve the genes, but then in part 2 they reveal it was their plan from the start to get rid of atreides?? It feels like they want to give all female side characters more agency and power, but the way they do it doesn’t really make sense and doesn’t really add anything in case of the Princess. Making the bene geserit the deciding power behind everything while completely cutting out all other power factions like most importantly the spacing guild, completely shifts the perception of power dynamic in the dune universe, in a way that makes in very one dimensional and completely lacks the clever nuance the original story had.
@zorak964
5 ай бұрын
In the first movie, there's a scene where Gaius Helen Mohiam asks the Baron to allow Jessica and Paul to survive the attack, saying, "allow them the dignity of exile." However, in the second movie, Gaius tells Irulan that the Bene Gesserit wanted to eliminate the Atreides for becoming "insolent"; and Irulan replies saying the plan failed because Paul Atreides was actually alive. It seems contradictory because Gaius intervened for Paul's life in the first film. After all, did Gaius want Paul dead or not? Did I miss anything?
@alx.burgir
5 ай бұрын
„Plans within plans“. I think they wanted to eliminate their Atreides „traits“ and bring out the Harkonnen side.
@zorak964
5 ай бұрын
@@alx.burgir The problem I'm trying to highlight here is that Irulan's response to Rev. Gaius implies that Paul should have been killed. When Irulan learns that Paul Atreides is alive, she tells Gaius that the plan to eliminate the Atreides failed. However, in the first movie, Gaius intervened for Jessica's and Paul's lives in the conversation with the Baron. So how can Paul's survival be considered a failure if he is alive precisely due to Rev. Mohiam's intervention?
@DuneNewsNet
5 ай бұрын
It feels like at least part of that ambiguity is due to the Reverend Mother not sharing information with Irulan. The latter drew conclusions based on her own discoveries, but without having the complete story.
@zorak964
5 ай бұрын
@@DuneNewsNet Yeah, that makes sense. I think I was assuming that Irulan was aware of all of Mohiam's actions.
@Alsayer-jd2os
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the breakdown! I read the book and loved it so when I watched part 2 some of the changes really bothered me but your breakdown has changed my mind a bit! Thanks!
@secretsofdune
5 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. I tried to navigate my own thoughts about why those changes might have been made, even though I may or may not agree with them. I think through that way in time we might come to accept those changes and make peace with them.
@blankmantm2501
5 ай бұрын
To me, the changes that seem most significant are Jessica's role and Paul's direct incitation of the Jihad. Though I can see the reasons for Jessica's change as more practical, Paul's "bring them to paradise" line was a bit jarring. In the book, even at the end, he did not will for the Jihad to happen (though his actions would lead to it, knowingly). It never struck me that he actively ordered for it to happen.
@DuneNewsNet
5 ай бұрын
Indeed a key change, in the movie, seeing Paul fully embrace his revenge. He certainly didn't issue a direct order in the first book. To lean into the warning theme, Villeneuve brought forward some of the character development seen in 'Dune Messiah' (or that was described as happening in the decade between events of the two books).
@TheGodEmperorOfMankind_
5 ай бұрын
For me: Chani is a good change, makes a believable relationship with Paul. Alia is a bad change, not only for her but also for Paul and the timeline it took him to take control over the Fremen.
@bosmith6430
5 ай бұрын
Did you say that Alia was “almost” possessed by the Baron???
@secretsofdune
5 ай бұрын
Tried to explain it in a way that wouldn't give too much away for those who haven't read the books.
@djdoc06
5 ай бұрын
I’m fine with all the changes. (1) leaving the guild navigators off screen allows them to keep all the action in the first 2 movies very grounded, and able to have disbelief supended by a wide audience or a more hard core audience. The appearance of CGi navigators can be left off till the next movie… they don’t physically appear in the book in the presence of any of the leads (2) fleshed out screen Chani will be able to fill all the roles of the book Chani, while having more agency.(3) Alia’s appearance would have been a distraction for many, and it’s not that important that she kill Baron Harkonnen. Letting the emperor or his men do it, didn’t ruin any themes or timeline. Alia can come later.
@gmonorail
5 ай бұрын
your father did not believe in revenge. well, i do.
@MrRobmango
5 ай бұрын
You should have also mentioned spoilers for children of dune
@DuneNewsNet
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for your feedback, that's helpful. To be fair, the point that R. Ali talked about is mentioned in the synopsis of 'Children of Dune'. By itself, it isn't a plot spoiler and certainly won't detract from enjoyment of reading that amazing book. We're always looking to find the right balance with these analyses. Some people have only seen the movie(s), while many others have read the books and are looking for in-depth analysis / how the movies connect to later events.
@garingranata
5 ай бұрын
Excellent analysis of the key differences of Villeneuve’s adaptation, Ali. Such a well done video!
@secretsofdune
5 ай бұрын
Thank you! Much appreciated. Glad you enjoyed it!
@garad123456
5 ай бұрын
I don't think Denis avoided the horror/creepiness of Alia, Jessica was given that creepiness
@genx7417
5 ай бұрын
Fear is the mind killer!
@enape311
5 ай бұрын
Changes to Alia wouldn’t change how she’s portrayed in COD. The baron is still in her memories. The change in Paul isn’t a change as there is enough evidence in Dune that by the end he has already personally tanked a dark turn to power. Before he met the fremen he proposed taking the throne. Before he met the fremen he knew of the missionaria protectiva he was aware that he wasn’t the mahdi or lisan al gaib. Chani was of course a big change however in the movie Paul says she will come to accept it meaning it’s unlikely she would be opposed to Paul in Messiah. 12 years is sufficient enough time to reconcile changes.
@dianacooper186
5 ай бұрын
Thank you for this complete explaination of diffetence beteween the book and movie. I completely agree there will be some changes to Dune Messiah from the book to the movie . But I'm willing to enjoy Denis ride!
@user-fx5cd4px3k
5 ай бұрын
love your content. did you notice that in dune part 2 they intimate that in fact Alia is the kwisatz haderach, not Paul? i think Jessica says it.
@831digital
5 ай бұрын
I did not notice that. What scene are you referring to?
@internetsowngirl7975
5 ай бұрын
Before they travel south, pregnant Jessica is talking to Alia in the Sietch about how "the Kwisatz Haderach wil be born in the south". Due to her pregnancy I also first understood, that Alia could be The One, but then came to conclusion, that it must be Paul.
@hollowedsage7403
5 ай бұрын
@@internetsowngirl7975 I personally took that as meaning that the Kwisatz Haderach will be born after drinking the water of life, but Paul Atreides will die when he takes the water of life, that was set up in part 1 when the voices said he must die too.
@user-fx5cd4px3k
5 ай бұрын
thanks, i didn't consider that @@internetsowngirl7975
@aptanalysisproductions6981
5 ай бұрын
@@hollowedsage7403could also refer to Leto II in the far future
@pussycatbasement7145
4 ай бұрын
Also, in the book, Paul "tastes" just a drop of Water of Life by his own initiative, whilst in the movie Paul drinks the water of life in what seems an "initiation ritual"
@amigosmomo
5 ай бұрын
I was disappointed because the film did not have the important roles of 2 year old Alia and Paul's children. I think Paul's failure at the end of the story is largely due to the fact that he loves chani too much. 2 years of sweetness and the pain of losing a child are extremely important to this couple. It's a pity that the film was adapted. Also alia's relationship with baron, the 2 year old girl killing her grandfather was definitely a big part of the series. I think the fact that the director gave up on the 2 year old alia and played it safe shows that he could never go beyond the original in terms of imagination and compromise with reality, which I can understand but am also disappointed in.
@hundredfireify
5 ай бұрын
Tbh, the way you describe the plot of the book makes it very unrealistic and un-impactful. Denis Villeneuve's adaptation sounds much more compelling. Paul doesn't make his choice out of revenge for his dead kid or for chani, but out of necessity. The harkonnens become an existential crisis for fremen and Paul has no choice but to drink the water of life. It's not as petty imho
@theavatar9191
5 ай бұрын
@@hundredfireifyYeah and the revenge aspect going to the fact that he saw his whole house slaughtered is probably enough 😅
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
I consider it extremely cowardly of DV. If you're too scared to adapt the weird aspects of Dune, why the fuck bother making a Dune adaptation in the first place?
@schmidtbrosband
5 ай бұрын
Maybe this is far-fetched, but perhaps Denis will perform a shocking reinterpretation where Paul assumes the Golden Path, transforms into the Worm and Alia assumes the role of Ghanima? I certainly hope not; it would be a scandalous reductionist perversion of the source material! Overthinking things...
@aldrinspeck2724
5 ай бұрын
Dune in a nutshell: (Hamlet meets Lawrence of Arabia) on drugs!
@kenmartin5299
5 ай бұрын
Very disappointed in chani character. They turned her into a warrior. Not believable
@brotherjohnnyxXxX
5 ай бұрын
Chani is a badass warrior in the book.
@christomorpho
5 ай бұрын
let the butt hurt flow
@plo617
5 ай бұрын
I'm just going to assume that this is a joke..
@maxmaxmaxmax647
5 ай бұрын
I dont buy that there are secular fremen , that some dont believe in him or worse think of him as a false prophet in the beginning would fit, maybe it was the way they handled it but it came across very clunky
@aptanalysisproductions6981
5 ай бұрын
Just curious, why don’t you buy that? It made it feel so much more relevant to me that they are a culture with a variety of religious opinions and worldviews, just like every culture. Made it feel more modern without losing spirit of the book. To me. But I’m curious why it didn’t work for others
@maxmaxmaxmax647
5 ай бұрын
@@aptanalysisproductions6981 because their fanatical believe system is what makes them survive and thrive in the hostile desert of arrakis , having been prosecuted and enslaved for their believes in the past before arriving there. there is even a faction of fremen later in the books that rejects pauls church because in their view it strafes too far of their extreme way of life. there are fremen who live in the cities who may be less fanatical but to live in the desert where the heat itself can kill you in hours of exposure you have to be extreme because what else holds you there ?
@brotherjohnnyxXxX
5 ай бұрын
It worked for me! Diversity of thought among the Fremen is entirely believable.
@dasmysteryman12
5 ай бұрын
What I think is that the more skeptical Freme still believe in Shia-Hulud and the Fremen religion, just without the Bene Gesserit myths
@maxmaxmaxmax647
5 ай бұрын
I made a reply but it got deleted by the algorithm or something , i dont like to repeat myself so thats that
@milton1448
5 ай бұрын
Chani's character changes was a miss for me. Didn't feel much chemistry between them. Casting miss.,
@vladmods
5 ай бұрын
I am very disappointed. I did not have high expectations but this is beyond the pale. I profoundly dislike Villeneuve's Chani. She is not complex, despite what D.V and other people keep saying. she is merely a current day insert girlboss in the fremen: mighty warrior, comically free thinker (unlike the other "primitive" fremen), foolishly silly (book Chani understood politics). There are few characters less interesting in movies than current day girlbosses. Alia is also ruined, so much for her. Thufir is done away with because screen time was needed for other less worthy stuff. The politics is ruined. Months instead of years? What? How is that more realistic than the book? Paul and Jessica are also weird. I could go on. The only hope for a better movie is to find the scenes which did not make the cut. This could have been so much more.
@milton1448
5 ай бұрын
The last thing we need is yet another angry insufferable girl-boss character. They just can't help themselves.
@christomorpho
5 ай бұрын
Let the butt hurt flow
@vladmods
5 ай бұрын
@@christomorpho Don't know your age, man, but that is is stupidly childish.
@christomorpho
5 ай бұрын
@@vladmods good, good. Let the butt hurt flow.
@vladmods
5 ай бұрын
@@christomorpho Whatever. :))
@marcomongke3116
5 ай бұрын
Strong woman is present in Channi as a competent warrior. And ironically they actually successfully made pregnant women as a strong protagonist. And the unborn daughter might become an even more powerful mary sue in the future. And of course Paul likely to become even more evil. All the ESG criteria has been fullfilled but in a more sophisticated manner. I just hope they dont make Paul totally evil, at the same time very weak and incompetent in the future.
@NightmareCo666
5 ай бұрын
Have you read the books at all?! Paul is not a hero...
@marcomongke3116
5 ай бұрын
@@NightmareCo666 i know that. Thats why i said totally evil.
@plo617
5 ай бұрын
Alia, a Mary Sue? I really wish people would stop throwing that word around when it clearly doesn't apply. She is one of rhe most tragic characters in the series. She never has her own thoughts, because they were drowned out by all of the memories inside her, since she was in her mother's womb. She was a weird child, who behaved and knew things only adults would know, causing most of the Fremen to be scared of her. Later in the books she eventually loses her mind and kills herself.
@marcomongke3116
5 ай бұрын
As long as its true to the books I would welcome it. I am just speculating a potentially bleak future sequals considering the current chaotic political climate. Which I hope wont come to pass. The god emperor hasnt given me any reliable visions of late. Overall, I did like the movie. But I would critique the last battle scenes being rushed and slightly weaker portrayal of antogonists except maybe Rabban@@plo617
@davesmith4534
5 ай бұрын
Don't waste your money going to see Dune part 2 if you love the book and expect to see a movie that resembles the book. The last five minutes of the movie goes totally off script and makes up a bunch of BS which totally ruins the ending of the movie. I laughed out loud for a couple of minutes about how the last five minutes turned the ending into a comedy. It takes the story arc of the books and vears off into non plausible nonsense. The building of the bond between Paul and Chani is totally broken. Chani is charged with negotiating for the Paul with the Emperor is gone. Paul threatens to 'blow up' the spice sands. What?? Paul's sister is totally missing. Paul check mating the Guild is replaced with let's go to war with the Great Houses instead. What?? Evidence of Paul's KH nature is totally missing. Most of Paul's great lines that one reads over and over in the last chapter of the book are just gone. Such a major disappointment. Don't waster your money. Wait till it streams for free soon.
@kenmartin5299
5 ай бұрын
I agree
@brotherjohnnyxXxX
5 ай бұрын
It does resemble the book, and more importantly, the main themes remain intact. The bond between Paul and Chani is not broken, she's just pissed - rightfully so. In the book Paul threatens the Emperor that he'll destroy the spice unless he follows his demands. Paul's sister is in her mother's womb, hence she's not totally missing. The jihad/holy war happens right after the events of Dune. Paul becomes the Kwisatz Haderach after he takes the water of life. Paul Atreides delivers very powerful lines throughout the whole film. It's a masterpiece!
@christomorpho
5 ай бұрын
Let the butt hurt flow
@stephengrant4841
5 ай бұрын
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX Alia was effectively axed from the movie. So what she's "technically" in it in Jessica's womb if she doesn't do anything she does in the book? Chani isn't pissed in the book - she understands why he has to marry Irulan and doesn't care, because why would a Fremen, with all their cultural views on marriage and love, care about that? No thufir, either, who is one of my favorite characters in the first book. The movie isn't totally disappointing and has plenty of good moments, but somehow the Lynch version of these specific events is more book accurate, although this movie translates the actual themes of the book better than Lynch's movie.
@brotherjohnnyxXxX
5 ай бұрын
@@stephengrant4841 I don't mind the changes and omissions anymore because Villeneuve handled everything with great care and finesse.
@briansheaves
5 ай бұрын
The sleeper has awakened and the werding module omissions are hard to get past for me..
@ekvq
5 ай бұрын
The weirding module was an invention of the 1984 adaptation of Dune
@kalel.m2t
5 ай бұрын
both invetions from the 1984 film, none of these are in the book
@peace_love_unity
5 ай бұрын
Yes but Lynch did it because the effects to do a good looking teleport was harder then a sound module... In the book the weirding way was a Bene Gesserit fighting style thoughtto Paul and he trained the Fedaykin with it to defeat the Harkonen. Not even mentioning it makes no sense. Paul was suddenly an OP fighter that none could defeat and Fremen suddenly were more powerful then Harkonen and Sardukaur army combined. Makes no sense at all. If they could defeat them without werding way they could've done that looooong ago...
Пікірлер: 106