Huge fan of your channel! How I learned all of my EE fundamentals. I’m actually the engineer that designed the electronics. Would love to chat more
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, small world. Did you work for Pedalcell or did you do it as a contractor?
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
@@Vishmoney15 Thanks, but sorry, not interested in reviewing such a product. It's better to simply strap a small USB battery bank to your bike with a bit of velcro. Is there any notification on your website advising people of the bad batch and replacements?
@uni-byte
2 жыл бұрын
@@EEVblog Wholeheartedly agree. I use a dual LED helmet light on my enduro motorcycle that has a small Li battery that straps to my upper arm. Lasts 3 hours on medium power, which is plenty for a dirt bike in the woods late at night doing race speeds. On a bicycle you could get away with low power and get 5-6 hours. Simple as can be and no installation required. It charges up over USB overnight ready for the next night adventure.👍
@gumbi79
2 жыл бұрын
@@Vishmoney15 lol covid such an easy excuse for lazy work and shit QA/QC
@radman999
2 жыл бұрын
@@EEVblog Looks like radio silence from here on in. Always a hallmark of a great company.
@ashleywest7443
2 жыл бұрын
It's a sensored brushless DC motor being used as a generator. They are commonly used in upmarket RC cars as the sensors give good starting torque. Chinese made ones are known for losing their magnets. We use unsensored ones in RC planes and were in the habit of pulling them apart when new and super gluing the magnets in properly before first use.
@KerbalLauncher
2 жыл бұрын
A lot of skateboard motor sellers advertise "battle-hardened" where they go in and add extra epoxy to the magnets. Some of them go even further and try to balance the motor.
@preddy09
2 жыл бұрын
Generally in RC prop type planes/drones, outrunner motors are used where even basic glue will work due to magnets being on the outside. Where inrunners are used such as EDFs, helis and cars, the in running stator with magnets are wrapped with kevlar or carbon fiber as any glue alone isn't a guarantee.
@debochch
2 жыл бұрын
If it is brushless DC then why is the output AC?
@shazam6274
2 жыл бұрын
@@debochch No such thing as a "Brushless DC motor" they all operate from 3 phase AC. It is "market speak" for the fact that the BLDC motors have a built in multiphase AC generator allowing the motor to operate from a DC power source.
@mrlazda
2 жыл бұрын
@@debochch bacouse brushless DC motors are not DC motors at all they are AC motors with electronic computation, or more precisely they are permanent magnet synchronous motor with trapezoidal back emf. Brushed DC motors are also AC motors but with mechanical computation (brushes convert DC to AC). There is only one motor as I know that is realy DC motor but it produce so little torque that is near useless.
@HwAoRrDk
2 жыл бұрын
I noticed from the previous Mailbag video the "do's and don'ts" sheet included in the box said "don't ride over 40 mph". I guess they already realised that excessive speed was a failure mode for the generator! But simply telling your users not to ride too fast isn't really a proper solution to poor manufacturing...
@MidnightSt
2 жыл бұрын
wtf
@volvo09
2 жыл бұрын
Yep! I have no idea about this brand but that "generator" looks horrendous for even low speed reliability.
@TheKnobCalledTone.
2 жыл бұрын
Unless you're on enough drugs to participate in the Tour De France, there's no way any normal person will ever exceed 40mph on a pushbike.
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheKnobCalledTone. Bikes can go down hill.
@RK-kn1ud
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheKnobCalledTone. I've done 40mph down a hill on a $900 road bike. I am not a super athlete either. I bet I could approach 45mph if I had a bigger hill available.
@GregBurrowa
2 жыл бұрын
The evolution of Technology! My big sister had a similar device for her bicycle lights. That was 70 years ago, it worked well.
@ct92404
2 жыл бұрын
@@Willam_J Hah, as far as oldies radio stations broadcasting 80's music goes...they must be trying to appeal to air-headed Millennials or something. The Skinny Jeans Generation thinks anything from more than 3 years ago is "retro."
@mikeselectricstuff
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the hall sensor is so they can adjust the charge current depending on speed
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
Possible. I would have thought you'd just dump as much energy as you could into the supercaps any way you can and not worry if it drops out or whatever?
@mikeselectricstuff
2 жыл бұрын
@@EEVblog I think you'd want to adjust the loading, if nothing else to reduce risk of slipping. The patent ( AU2021250917A1 ) mentions use of a threshold speed below which it doesn't draw significant power
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikeselectricstuff I think what might happen is that mostly the USB charge current doesn't come from the supercaps, USB output is only enabled when the RPM/voltage from the generator is high enough. At lower speeds it just scrapes what charge it can for the supercaps to power the circuitry.
@nickldominator
2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure the hall sensors are used when the generator is used as an actual motor, not a generator. That configuration is extremely common for sensored BLDC motor control. The generator is most likely just a repurposed off-the-shelf sensored BLDC motor, and my guess is they use one of the hall sensors as a handy speedometer gauge for the bike.
@chrispollard6568
2 жыл бұрын
No, it's just a depopulated standard brushless motor being used as a generator
@jr0th
2 жыл бұрын
After seeing the design choices, I'm pretty sure the hall sensor output is there to "log" the speed, and when (not if) it breaks, deny replacement under warranty...
@johncoops6897
2 жыл бұрын
No, dummy. The hall sensors are used when it is used as a motor. And the guy got the replacement for free under warranty, which was not denied. kzitem.info/news/bejne/ma-OwH6QfH16oH4
@markperry222
Жыл бұрын
That looks like a different brushless motor would work. It looks like the surface of the magnets are too smoth for the glue to adhere to. The pedal cell bit seems good, but the motor needs to be changed.
@alicangul2603
2 жыл бұрын
My guilty pleasure: Watching Dave not knowing (power) electrical stuff 😅
@namenotshown9277
2 жыл бұрын
nice detective work. Its probably got three hall sensors as the motor was designed to be used as a motor not a generator, need the 3 halls to run it as a motor, so you could hook up an ebike controller and run the thing as a motor if you wanted. Why the kept one hall sensor I'm not sure but it might be useful to have a signal for some reason, if they are not useing diodes to rectify the output they might be using the hall sensor output to rectify via some fets.......just a guess. The magnets are just reversed polarity each magnet as you go around, so if not in correct order could easily sort it. I suspect the little gennie might get a bit hot and the glue for magnets not strong enough when heated. Sure is a neat little unit.
@LadyShotFromATree
8 ай бұрын
Thanks ! Mine stopped working a few months ago too :(
@LadyShotFromATree
8 ай бұрын
How the hell did you manage to remove the top part of the generator (the rotating one) ?
@4dirt2racer0
2 жыл бұрын
the motor manufacturers attempt to affix the magnets is absolutely pathetic.. they should genuinely b ashamed of that
@markthintie5132
2 жыл бұрын
Watched this video offline (not logged in) and i found it very interesting as all your videos. I noticed you had some sort of Arcade Machine on the left hand side, would you share that with us?. Also What is a 4 banger (i heard it one of you older videos).
@fabriziobrutti1205
2 жыл бұрын
5:43 wait.. What... What the... Shouldn't the magnets be on the rotor??
@JohnDlugosz
2 жыл бұрын
I tried a couple of generators back before LED headlights were a thing. The drag it added was _horrendous_ ! Furthermore, the light output was dimmer than when running on batteries. Today, I think anyone who wants to charge their phone with a bike doesn't realize just how much power that requires.
@gorak9000
2 жыл бұрын
When you're doing a heavy workout on a treadmill or stair machine, it's about 300W. That's WAY more than you need to charge a phone - more like 5W (5V x 1A) at minimum. If your generator introduces enough drag you even notice it to make 5W, that's just a really shit generator.
@BKD70
2 жыл бұрын
I'm sure that these are marketed toward greenie "save the planet" eco-warrior types. The ones with lots more money than common sense.
@qzorn4440
2 жыл бұрын
hey go to your neighborhood dentist and get some of his 5 second magic glue for a diy fix 😏 thanks cool video 😎 keep the speed under 100 mph
@dimzen5406
2 жыл бұрын
Seems like glue is heated, melted, and magnets gets free
@channelsixtysix066
2 жыл бұрын
This POS cost $447.00 AUD. !! I suspect the heat caused what little glue there was, to fail.
@Nordic_Mechanic
2 жыл бұрын
NIce, Id totally fix that thing and put it to use
@MrSnoots
2 жыл бұрын
"someone skimped at the glue factory" made me laugh out loud. I just imagine someone at an actual glue factory being pissed because someone at a janky motor/generator factory did a shit job.
@I.____.....__...__
2 жыл бұрын
Well that's a shame, and a waste. The rest of it was pretty well-made, then they blew it with the very first, most fundamental, integral part in the most bone-headed way. There were so many ways they could have done that, why they went with a drop of glue, is beyond me. 🤦
@psionicxxx
2 жыл бұрын
Take into consideration that in China, one manufacturer makes PCBs, the other one makes the motors, and the last one assembles everything. Maybe it's how it is done in other countries too, except that other countries have QC department, and are not using the absolute cheapest to bring down the prices...
@shreddder999
2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps it could wirelessly transmit the power to the grid through the solar roadways.
@f.f.s.d.o.a.7294
2 жыл бұрын
Solar Freakin' Bicycle Generators
@ratbag359
2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
@xjet
2 жыл бұрын
That's what's called an "inrunner" configuration (where the magnets are on the rotating shaft). They can fly apart as this one did. The other configuration (where the magnets are on a rotating bell and the coils are mounted in the middle) is called an "outrunner". The benefits of the outrunner include the fact that the magnets are being flung in-place by centrifugal force when things are turning. They still throw magnets sometimes however -- if they're poorly glued.
@Pillowcase
2 жыл бұрын
Yup, I've glued back many a magnet in the outrunner motors of my racing drones. They still worked quite well, especially after rebalancing.
@Guineh76
2 жыл бұрын
I was wondering why they didn’t use an out runner design. In runner seems more prone to flinging it’s guts out. Eh, not a motor or generator designer anyway. Seems like something that would really only be usable in low rpm situations.
@Sonny_McMacsson
2 жыл бұрын
@@Guineh76 Or you can put a proper mounting system instead of just gluing it like a cheap POS and it would never be an issue.
@xponen
2 жыл бұрын
@@Guineh76 in out-runner design the outer casing have to free-spin and only attached to the static part only by a single shaft on a bearing, while a in-runner design the mechanical configuration is typical, ie; like in the video, a load can be attached to the motor by a shaft while the casing is rigid and can be securely mounted to a larger structure. So imagine how to design a plastic mounting for a spinning casing (out-runner)? on a DC fan it is done by making the fan as the casing for magnets and the base of the motor is mechanically supported by a circuit board.
@WacKEDmaN
2 жыл бұрын
imo the better design is with the windings on the armature and the magnets fixed...altho this requires a commutator and brushes to get the power off the armature and out to the housing.. and that can fail (not as quick as this junk tho!)
@volvo09
2 жыл бұрын
Almost makes me wonder if the company used a bunch of discount known bad motors as generators thinking they'd suit... What an odd failure and a crappy design, that motor does not look like it would have survived high speed rotation either way...
@SubTroppo
2 жыл бұрын
If only there was a way to quality-control company directors.
@arthurmoore9488
2 жыл бұрын
Worst part is this is easily fixed.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
re: "What an odd failure and a crappy design" Ignores possible abuse by the owner, WHO might have dropped these units as well, jarring the magnets loose?
@jhoughjr1
2 жыл бұрын
If you spin anything fast enough it will fail.
@pauldeboer
2 жыл бұрын
In hindsight it shouldn't feel smooth as silk when you rotate it I guess. Also when you opened it I noticed the strange distribution of the magnets with a gap between 2, see @5:41. That should have been a clue what happened but I didn't get it either until you got one of the magnets out. I wonder if there are different forces in play when it is used as intended, eg as a motor. Not sure, more coffee needed.
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, was quite confusing when first opened. Can't say I've ever seen nore heard of rotor magnets coming apart before. The feel after repair is kind of a bit grindy, not a magnetic slip, the back plate which handles the centre alignment didn't go on fully.
@thatsnotmyname5
2 жыл бұрын
Aha! I knew that gap was strange as well! Great catch.
@HPD1171
2 жыл бұрын
as a motor i would expect even more forces to be exerted in the rotor as the coils would be actively powered applying more force to the magnets along with the centrifugal force. so either they are operating it far above its intended rpm range or they seriously need to audit the factory making the motors as I would never pass a construction like that relying solely on glue and soo little of it. there should be a physical thing holding the magnets in alignment such as just molding it in plastic which would be far cheaper and stronger then the laminated steel and glue they used in the rotor which is doing absolutely nothing. Usually Chinese factories are good at copying other designs that work but that often means they copy the mistakes too and combined with cutting corners is a recipe for disaster which is likely what happened here. we see this sort of thing all the time at my company and we are constantly having to audit (babysit) the factories in china to make sure they are using the correct manufacturing methods that we specify and every time they seem to find a way to change something to make cheaper that ends up biting us in the ass if we are not constantly vigilant. perhaps this company does not have the experience of dealing with china and are learning the hard way
@deezelfairy
2 жыл бұрын
It's a brushless dc motor and they never feel smooth - they fell notchy as the magnets align with their next coil lamination. In the rc model world we call it 'cogging'
@spr00sem00se
2 жыл бұрын
That's gap between the magnets was the first thing I saw. I still didn't realise what had happened though. Piece of junk for sure. I'd rather an old 70s dynamo .
@jarnohonkanen4321
2 жыл бұрын
This was interesting, not because faulty product but it relates to topic of my masters of theses "Bicycle dynamo powered charger for electronic devices" (paper is in finish) where I studied HUB generator powered USB charger, done some measurements about HUB generator, and done some simulations. 3-phase generator is definitely better choice than 1-phase generator what usually is seen HUB generators. More steady output voltage after rectification. Quality of construction of generator really matters, it's harsh environment. All that vibrations and etc.. but here rotor construction had extremely bad quality 🤦
@conwaylai8562
2 жыл бұрын
When I was working in a tape drive manufacturer, we were surprised that the failure from the drive unit were so high. Went down to the factory in China, and after some auditing; the operators were not curing the loctite glue under the UV lamp (they just dab the glue and move it along). Apparently, no one understood the process instructions, so that part was not translated to mandarin for the operators.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
PLUS no one had seen or used UV-cured glue before!!!!
@conwaylai8562
2 жыл бұрын
@@uploadJ Yes, it wasn't the norm in China then.
@Wineman3383
2 жыл бұрын
I'll be, the glue was what gave up in the motors. Soon as they got a little warm.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
OR dropped - OR over-sped. Maybe the glue gave up in +100 degF Aussie summer?
@Wineman3383
2 жыл бұрын
@@uploadJ that's most likely what is really happening. Over heating.
@randomviewer896
2 жыл бұрын
This BLDC motor would work just fine if the magnets were fully potted in epoxy like you did at the end for your repair. It blows my mind that a company would ever sell such a motor with internal magnets that only held onto the shaft with glue. Even if this was used for its intended application, it would still be a matter of time before the magnets flew off.
@sw6188
2 жыл бұрын
China does not care.
@andyjdhurley
2 жыл бұрын
Of course the company making the motor is NOT the company making the end product, problem is the latter found the cheapest supplier and did not check the part was up to spec. I bet they did not even know how bad it was until they started getting lots of returns and then added the poorly thought out 40mph limit on their instructions... instead of recalling the product and changing out the part for one that is up to the job.
@mikefochtman7164
2 жыл бұрын
@@SporadicBenevolence I was going to say the same. In REAL generators, the magnets would be a tiny bit longer than the coil poles so you can 'band' each end of the rotor with any non-conductive 'string' to hold the magnets on the rotor. But that would cost a few pennies more. Maybe the darn thing just isn't rated for the speeds involved?
@felixhirt9284
2 жыл бұрын
@@SporadicBenevolence its not just about the price, i think. the bandaging reduces the air gap, resulting in a torque reduction. We are designing our own high-power, high-speed motors (25krpm) for our racecar - and AFAIK, without bandage. For the afforementioned reason. The magnets are embedded in the core. A colleque of mine simulates exploding rotors for high-power machines - all without bandage. We are talking about high-reliability applications :-). In this case, however, they *should* have added it.
@losipoop
2 жыл бұрын
Sintered rotor was the only logical choice in my eyes.
@caerffili_callin
2 жыл бұрын
These type of products are popular among long distance touring cyclists who may not have access to mains electricity to charge a lower bank up. Usually the electronics is connected to an already installed hub dynamo on the front wheel, but they have become very expensive and I assume this product was designed to be a lower cost easily removable alternative.
@harshbarj
2 жыл бұрын
$299 for what's incorrectly called a "bottle dynamo" (All that I have seen are actually generators as they produce AC, not DC). I paid $80 for my Sturmey archer generator hub with built in break. For less than $50 I could easily add a battery pack and get the same thing as this. As a bicycle commuter having always on light is great and having them powered by a generator mean never worrying about batteries.
@ArtyomGalstyan
2 жыл бұрын
You know what? I have a feeling that the guys at the company are 100% aware of this and not going to do with it anything. Well, probably because it helps them to sell more and more of these products when they fail. You mentioned yourself, the guy has just bought 2 of those. Not sure he will go for the 3rd one after your investigation. By the way, great job, you cracked the case in 15 minutes 😁
@johnpekkala6941
2 жыл бұрын
If you sell me a shitty product u loose me as customer! I say this is really to bite yourself in the foot if it was made like this on purpose. Customers expect things they buy to work and when they dont they will spread negative critics about the company all over the internet giving the company negative reputation for making crappy stuff (just as it should be)
@AffordBindEquipment
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnpekkala6941 and in 24 hours, about 10,000 people world wide know not to buy one of these! and at $299US, that's a lot of negative advertising!
@MSP_TechLab
2 жыл бұрын
@@AffordBindEquipment unfortunately not. Of course there are people who are into biking and electronics, but I assume that mostly not. So, it will take time until small group of electronics guys will spread this information.
@bloeckmoep
2 жыл бұрын
Doesn't matter if the "original" Brand name suffers, give it a day and the EXACT same faulty product is available on Amazon under a different generic Brand name like "XXYC usb bike dynamo" or "EXYC usb bike charger". As long as the price is cheap it will sell.
@johncoops6897
2 жыл бұрын
Artyom Galstyan - The guy didn't buy 2... he got the second unit free under warranty claim. Pay attention, and stop spreading BS > kzitem.info/news/bejne/ma-OwH6QfH16oH4 The more units that fail, the more money the company loses due to warranty replacements... faulty components don't benefit the manufacturer in ANY way.
@yowieP51
2 жыл бұрын
Found this problem a number of times Dave in model aircraft motors its quite common for the magnets to let go.
@antonypilepich8947
2 жыл бұрын
I've never had and and success with gluing neo magnets with thin layer of epoxy, also most epoxies soften with heat, it was bound to fail.
@T2D.SteveArcs
2 жыл бұрын
I remember seeing a "dynamo" on my grandfather's bike as a kid, I asked him about it and he said "oh that thing !" "It just makes it harder to peddle, they don't use them anymore now we have good batteries available" that was in 1987 😅
@SystemX1983
2 жыл бұрын
They should have written in the manual: riding faster than 40 mph will most probably activate "SELF-DESTRUCTION MODE" It's not a bug, it's a feature 😉
@MickMcMadder
2 жыл бұрын
Should be safe on a Penny Farthing front wheel, but not a child's tricycle.....
@pauljs75
2 жыл бұрын
Knowing Chinese, they probably substituted MPH for km/h, so they were only good for half the speed on the instructions anyways.
@sysghost
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. A friend of mine had this bike generator that failed only weeks after installation. I start to suspect it failed the very same way.
@SianaGearz
2 жыл бұрын
Germans formed a "Forumslader" enthusiast working group decades ago, because any attempts at electronics coming out of bicycle accessory companies were garbage. Their DIY series of devices have several design goals. Main is compliance to legal norms - you simply HAVE to have dynamo lights in Germany, so you don't ever run out of energy. When you do, it's nice to be able to run them independently of pedalling, to give you extra safety when you need it, so they added hold up power which can be activated manually. Also they made it stealthy, you hide it entirely in the frame, so the authorities don't go around questioning you and people aren't so inclined to nick your stuff. Plus you get the ability to top up your GPS (this is when the project started, before smartphones were around) and phones and gadgets. Many members go on bicycle tours hundreds of km with intermittent camping and whatnot, and having true energy independence is great for a peace of mind. Then of course they got carried away and added Bluetooth and whatnot, which is nice as well, people love their bicycle tachos, but they are a little finicky, and the hub dynamo gives you regular pulses anyway. You've got to use an actual bicycle quality dynamo to get that power. Tyre side dynamos work but aren't entirely pleasant. Hub dynamo is fairly nice though, and when it's shorted out, you can barely feel it at all, and those are reliable, they'll last for decades. That's the one sort of part you want from bicycle parts companies where they know what they're doing and are held to relevant standards.
@JPN76
2 жыл бұрын
Guess it exceeded the max RPM I guess we could calculate this if we knew the diameter of the bike tire.
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
The OP said he didn't ride it hard and broke two of them.
@JPN76
2 жыл бұрын
@@EEVblog yeah it didn't look like a good epoxy anyway. Any decent motor I have taken apart has epoxy on a bit thicker and just looks better. That looks like hobby glue or something.
@danielthechskid
2 жыл бұрын
Tire diameter is irrelevant since the edge where this is driven will always be moving roughly the same speed as the ground hence this PMA's drive wheel will also. IE the tire is just an idler and it's the diameter of the PMA's little wheel that matters. If it is a 50mm diameter it's just about 100 RPM per km/h.
@JPN76
2 жыл бұрын
@@danielthechskid yeah that makes sense to me.
@ericgerstenberger7813
2 жыл бұрын
700c x 23. It was on my indoor trainer with a max speed of maybe 20mph (36 km/h).
@highfidelityinc
2 жыл бұрын
I think it is interesting that there are 6 poles on the stator and 8 poles on the rotor. The first time I saw that I would have thought there would be the same number on both. But after do a little searching, apparently having an uneven number makes the output sinusoidal and reduces vibration. Be interested in hearing your take on the reason for the difference.
@tactileslut
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for noticing that and bringing it up. It makes sense to me in that the shaft is going to want to stop with a magnet as close as possible to a pole piece, and if they all lined up at the same position it would hum like a stepper while being turned.
@SkyCharger001
2 жыл бұрын
Another thing, since this was originally meant as a motor, the unequal count assures that there are always at least two coil sets that can pull the rotor into alignment with themselves, allowing the motor to self-start.
@mikefochtman7164
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I've seen this before. Especially with MOTORS that you like to run at very slow speeds (as in Model Trains). When the pole numbers match, you get more 'cogging' where the slowly turning rotor sort of 'jumps' from one pole to the next in a not very smooth fashion. This arrangement, as you slowly vary the three phases, the rotor moves more smoothly.
@highfidelityinc
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks to all who replied. It definitely helps to clarify why there are usually an unequal number of poles on the rotor and stator.
@Randrew
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikefochtman7164 You're right. And as a generator it should also benefit from this with reduced cogging.
@johnrobholmes
2 жыл бұрын
Laminations are used on the PM rotor because it's practically free to tool the lam mold to cut the stator and rotor support (back iron) at the same time. There is some amount of recirculating current in this "back iron" but laminations aren't really needed there.
@mozismobile
2 жыл бұрын
Such a simple mechanical failure! And that does explain why some many of the things have died, because the combo of bicycle vibration and spinning fast is going to break that glue every time. I wonder if there's room for a wrap or two of fibre tape for a repair?
@gorak9000
2 жыл бұрын
it's not good enough for the magnets to be taped into a ring - they have to be mechanically connected to the shaft, so the tape won't do squat. Just need actual glue that holds.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
re: "because the combo of bicycle vibration and spinning fast is going to break that glue every time." Yup.
@frollard
2 жыл бұрын
It's an interesting segue to how the new Tesla S plaid needs carbon fiber overwrap on the motor rotor...no gear changes means it needs torque from 0-200+km/h. I forget something like 9:1 means the rotor something absurd 30cm(guess from memory) diameter has to spin at absurdium rpms...Rotor needs the carbon wrap just to prevent a nearly solid piece of metal from becoming shrapnel.
@Blox117
2 жыл бұрын
no, the rotor is different than shown here. It's an IPM design where the magnets are embedded inside of the steel. They can't come out. In the IPM design torque is provided threefold: permanent magnets, electromagnets, and magnetic reluctance Also and more importantly, this design is over 20 years old and Tesla has nothing to do with it.
@joeteejoetee
2 жыл бұрын
Big Clive could reverse engineer this better for you.
@KLondike5
2 жыл бұрын
That was spinning way too easy at first. The fields definitely produce resistance when the magnets aren't all flung off.
@Arek_R.
2 жыл бұрын
6:22 That is some super wanky trace layout, does their PCB CAD software not got option to draw circular traces? At work I've got proteus and I would draw whole 90 degree arc and then remove segment by segment to get any other angles.
@GannDolph
2 жыл бұрын
I had one of those as a kid - manufactured over 50 years ago at this point It was basically a perm magnet brushed DC generator (motor) you'd wire directly to the lamp module which contained a standard torch bulb (6v as I recall) . There was only one wire - they grounded by clamping down and gashing thru your paint to the bike frame. The on off switch was simply the mechanical lever that would engage/disengage the drive cog against the side of your tire. It had horrible magnetic cogging and placed a surprising load on the wheel which you could really feel . The light intensity would go up and down as you peddled and went off when you stopped. No capacitors or batteries or regulators. It ran quite dimly most of the time , to leave some headroom in case you went really fast so it wouldn't blow the bulb..
@GannDolph
2 жыл бұрын
@@Okurka. yup. no three phase rectifier , s capacitor , regulator etc. But mechanically speaking looked / worked the same .
@jb9652
2 жыл бұрын
Haha - perfect description of the components and the installation! One good thing about them: AFAIK, they never got stolen! 😅
@jcxtra
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Dave! Love the channel, you, Big Clive and DiodeGoneWild pretty much taught me everything I know. When I was a kid we used to have a dynamo generator on my bike for powering tungsten lamps for riding at night. It made the bike tougher to ride, but it meant that I didn't have to keep buying batteries when I only had my pocket money. These days though I'm guessing given how efficient LEDs and lithium batteries are, it's probably easier/cheaper to just strap a decent sized "smart" power bank to it and run a bunch of USB cables, or if you wanted to go 12v (like SLA maybe), you could wire in a cigarette style 12v to USB adapter. I guess this product is in the gimmick / convenience market, rather than solving a problem?
@nathantron
2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sad how many companies don't test their products for durability. They hit minimum requirements and fuck quality entirely.
@mosfet500
2 жыл бұрын
It only takes one magnet to come lose and stick to the coils. Once that happens it jambs the whole motor up and then all the rest of the magnets break loose. The magnets change polarity from one to the next - NSNSNS. You can use a spare magnet to get the orientation, it doesn't matter if it N or S just as long as they run opposite from one to the next.
@glenngarrett8785
2 жыл бұрын
PedalCell 7W for US$300 or a small solar panel for $25? You could attach it to your helmet.
@gryzman
2 жыл бұрын
Almost didn't watch this, because of the thumbnail. I hate this negative crap on KZitem, makes me not want to watch things
@byronwatkins2565
2 жыл бұрын
Nice catch, Dave! This was never destined to be reliable as a motor either. Adhesive doesn't stick well to ceramic magnets... especially under tension. I would have wrapped the ends of the magnet assembly with a few turns of fine wire and covered that with adhesive. Even better would be to specify grooves to fit the wire.
@Randrew
2 жыл бұрын
Hard disk drive head voice coil servos all use glued, plated neodymium magnets like these. But I'll admit they probably don't see anywhere near the Gs this pedogen delivers. I still think it should be quite doable as the epoxies commonly used for such things are very strong in tension, though weaker in shear. In fact the best way to remove hard drive magnets is a sharp strike of the servo magnet bracket against something hard - striking with the shear line of the glue perpendicular to the hard object being struck against. As my son discovered and videoed when he was about 13. How to Remove Hard Drive Magnets: kzitem.info/news/bejne/wH-jlqp_r5yBgYY
@leocurious9919
2 жыл бұрын
The glue isnt sticking to any ceramics, its a metal coating. Also, its an alloy, not a ceramic. Also also, glue has no problem holding on to ceramics.
@byronwatkins2565
2 жыл бұрын
@@leocurious9919 And yet it falls apart almost immediately.
@leocurious9919
2 жыл бұрын
@@byronwatkins2565 Yes? Because its a metal surface, cheap adhesive and only a tiny bit of it.
@bardrick4220
2 жыл бұрын
REPAIRED!!! 🤣 Just needed better glue! . . . I smell some designed obsolescence here too.
@MorRobots
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha Dave was staring right at it...lol... how long until he sees it... 7:11 😆
@PF-gi9vv
2 жыл бұрын
I couldn't believe he didn't see it straight away, I was thinking "whats he talking about, can he not see it, he's missed it lol"
@pauljs75
2 жыл бұрын
Thing probably would have worked if they used a motor/generator with an external rather than internal rotor. (The force from spinning would have kept the magnets to the outside bell housing, even if the glue failed.) Thus making you wonder why they made that design choice.
@chrisayad0
2 жыл бұрын
outrunnerzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
@timthompson468
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if a thin plastic sleeve around the magnets would keep them on the rotor. Is there enough clearance for something like that? Interesting troubleshooting though.
@josephcote6120
2 жыл бұрын
Even something like heat shrink tubing might work fine.
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
Barely room, but possible.
@Brian-L
2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking something like a kapton sleeve, but I’ve never seen kapton molded in tubular form.
@PocketBrain
2 жыл бұрын
"Stabbies." Sharp probes to stab thru the conformal. Above a certain RPM, your magnets are going to throw to the outside and part with the rotor.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
OR - just drop the motor ... onto a hard surface. Concrete might do it.
@mohamadasriabdulazid4784
2 жыл бұрын
It dosen't make sane to use lamination core just to hold magnet.😂
@jaytalbot1146
2 жыл бұрын
Actually from a manufacturing standpoint it makes total sense. Since they are punching the laminations for the stator, they already have the machinery for punching and the metal can probably come from the center of the stator laminations so it makes far more sense than a separate operation machining out of bar stock or die casting etc. Also a company making cheap brushless motor probably makes wound rotor motors too, so pressing punched lamination onto a shaft is something that they routinely do. Considering how poor the glue job was, I'm guessing wound rotor motors are mostly what they do and brushless are a bit of a mystery to them.
@mohamadasriabdulazid4784
2 жыл бұрын
@@jaytalbot1146 yeah but. It batter to use solid core. That way they can use counter sank sreew, and thread locker to hold the magnet. I know it will increase manufacturing cost, but some part you can't just cheap out.
@dem0n1k
2 жыл бұрын
It's dodgy. We've had push-bike wheel dynos that worked fine to power lights for years with no such magnet issues. Cheers for the pull down report as always!
@yodab.at1746
2 жыл бұрын
Those generally have a horseshoe magnet rotating around a stationary coil. Very robust.
@jhoughjr1
2 жыл бұрын
Also very low power and not very clean.
@ruben_balea
2 жыл бұрын
As for the laminated construction I think they just make the components and assemble them using the same machines that they already had to make brushed motors because that's more cost-effective, sheet metal can be punched to final shape much faster than one can see with the naked eye, for a solid piece they would have to use a lathe to face the ends, turn the outside diameter and make the hole... I don't know how fast a CNC lathe can be but I doubt it can outperform a die cutter.
@jonscot8393
2 жыл бұрын
Looks hand wound by a person 3/4 asleep. Farm laborers maybe.
@lawdelpus
2 жыл бұрын
Did you see the eye watering price they charge for this piece of crap over £200 !!!
@edwardwright6961
2 жыл бұрын
the laminations are to stop over saturation and inprove the magnetic eddy current flow
@MartysRandomStuff
2 жыл бұрын
Typical case of using a component in an environment it wasn't designed for and then doing zero testing. Customers are now the quality control testers. It was hard to watch how long it took to realize the magnets had come off. The hall effect sensors provide feedback for motor controllers that have speed control.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
re: "and then doing zero testing. " Like, temperature and vibe (vibration) testing? Yes ...
@mark-
2 жыл бұрын
Big engineering fail on this motor. Looks like they used a dodgy $1 motor on this... Thanks for sharing 👍
@PaulSteMarie
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like one of the diodes in the bridge is missing or damaged. There should be six diodes for a three phase bridge. SKS sounds like a knockout of SKF, which is a well-known bearing manufacturer.
@grndkntrl
2 жыл бұрын
If you watch the initial maibag video this came in on, or the shorter clipped version just for this product, you'll see a few components got ripped off in the tear down where the potting on the underside of the board refused to part with them.
@hempbear
2 жыл бұрын
I remember going through dynamos like candy back in the day. The vibration, elements and sometimes thieves got to them. Why would anyone reinvent this piece of dogturd now when we have LED lights and decent batteries? Charge your phone while cycling??? Get a power bank.
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
I just use a velcro strip on the back of a small battery bank. Strap on when needed.
@MarianKeller
2 жыл бұрын
Some countries legally require dynamo powered lighting. Also, having to charge your bike lights sucks. Seriously, how many million more bloody batteries am I supposed to remember charging every day?
@tubastuff
2 жыл бұрын
There were two basic types, as I recall (I'd have to go through my bike parts hellbox to verify). There was one that had a small cogged wheel that was set to rub against the tire sidewall. There was another type that mounted between the rear chainstays that pressed up against the tire tread. I rigged one of those on our tandem with a rectifier charging 3 Gates SLA cells. No point in a regulator--the thing couldn't put out enough to roast the battery. Headlight was an incandescent 6V halogen. It worked pretty well, but obviously was bulky and that little dynamo just picked up all sorts of road dirt. If you consider that the bike wheel was about 70 cm in diameter and the little dynamo wheel was perhaps 3 cm, that poor little thing got spun pretty fast. That was more than 30 years ago; it would seem ludicrous today.
@MarianKeller
2 жыл бұрын
@@Okurka. How often do you ride your bike in the dark?
@MarianKeller
2 жыл бұрын
@@Okurka. I guess handling plutonium pellets a few times a year also would be less than desirable.
@IanScottJohnston
2 жыл бұрын
What is it with glue!!.....wasnt there an old story of a loudspeaker manufacturer who went bust because they forgot to price in the small amount of glue required to hold the cone to the coil in a large run. Sheesh!
@mrbmp09
2 жыл бұрын
Back in the late 60s they sold small generator/ headlight sets for bikes. You had to be moving 5-10 mph to get any light out of it.
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
They used a "wire" in the bub to make the light, too. A little Tungsten wire, it got real hot, and created broad-spectrum light ... those were the 'daze' ...
@thorhallurragnarsson2381
2 жыл бұрын
Take a second look at the diode bridge rectifier, to me one of the diodes appears to be defect or missing?
@EEVblog
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, see the teardown in the mailbag, the diode ripped off because the board was potted in the box.
@Rx7man
2 жыл бұрын
well, it quite literally came unglued!
@Wineman3383
2 жыл бұрын
You just did R and D for cadence. Now they can have a recall and ship out working units. Yeah right 👍 Sure they will!
@Rx7man
2 жыл бұрын
As likely as Futuremotion doing something like that I"m sure
@youdontknowme5969
2 жыл бұрын
yeah recalls are for usually only safety reasons e.g. n-teen people have to die first, n-teen properties have to burn down, class-action lawsuit, etc it's sickening really
@gorak9000
2 жыл бұрын
Chinese R&D? Receive and Duplicate?
@GodmanchesterGoblin
2 жыл бұрын
@@gorak9000 A sales manager for a company I know in the far East referred to it as Repeat and Delay due to the number of unsuccessful design iterations and the delayed product launches that this caused.
@youdontknowme5969
2 жыл бұрын
Rip-off & Destroy
@todesgeber
2 жыл бұрын
i wonder if that's why they have a 40 mph limitation in the instructions. craptastic glue doesn't bind to standard neodoodlyium magnet plating.
@Enigma758
2 жыл бұрын
Funny! I gather the polarity of the magnets needs to be considered when gluing them back on.
@chrisprice5806
2 жыл бұрын
instead of gluing them they should of put a sleeve around the magnets
@DavePoo2
2 жыл бұрын
I think in the previous video I saw that the manual said "don't exceed 40mph", seems like they should have set that speed a lot lower given the amount of glue holding it together.
@mikefochtman7164
2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts as well. Estimating that drive wheel is about 2.5 cm, even a leisurely 15 mph would send it over 5000 RPM. Small wonder it 'spun itself apart'. Classic over-speeding failure.
@DavePoo2
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikefochtman7164 ha ha! 15mph is my average speed on a bicycle! Make sure you don't go down any hills.
@jhoughjr1
2 жыл бұрын
@@DavePoo2 Yeah it's not like they have brakes so you can control your speed or anything. I get that most drivers are incapable of maintaining a speed limit.
@01glenn0101
2 жыл бұрын
still remember the old generator on the front wheel... not the best light output ...
@gamesbychris
2 жыл бұрын
Wow! They charge $300 for one of those!!! Think they could afford a bit more glue
@jdmccorful
2 жыл бұрын
Buyer beware!
@Asdayasman
2 жыл бұрын
Multiple lmao points here. 1. The nerds at the engineering department of pedalcell are all too noodle-legged to be able to pedal a bike to test what would otherwise have been a really good product properly. 2. Your viewer bought something, it broke, Occam's Razor dictates it's planned obsolescence, and THEY BOUGHT THE SAME THING AGAIN. One born every minute.
@jdmccorful
2 жыл бұрын
Amen!
@thinklist
2 жыл бұрын
😆😆😆 sorry have to correct UVW. Awesome video mate 😂
@williamsquires3070
2 жыл бұрын
They would have been better off using a conventional stepper motor, or an ordinary 12v DC permanent magnet motor (like in G-scale model trains) + an encoder wheel and slotted optocoupler. This BLDC motor was probably counterfeit Chinesium crap. It would have been really amusing if Dave had powered it as a brushless DC motor; it would have made quite a racket as the magnets bounce around between the rotor and the stator pole-pieces! 😂😆
@Randrew
2 жыл бұрын
"This BLDC motor was probably counterfeit Chinesium crap." Counterfeit? They're almost all made there now anyway. Time to call them "original Chinesium crap" and the ones from Vietnam counterfeit ?
@tahustvedt
2 жыл бұрын
LOL they didn't wrap the magnets. They are usually wrapped with aramide. Why did they make such a complicated PCB? All they needed was a rectifier and a large range voltage regulator. I've made similar devices myself. No need for hall sensing on a little generator.
@SeanBZA
2 жыл бұрын
Laminations are to make assembly easier for the manufacturer, instead of machining a bar they stack layers of metal, likely made at the same time as the outer laminates in a punch. The magnets flying off probably was from them not cleaning the magnets properly, likely still a bit of oil from somewhere left on, and not washed off, or contaminated wash solvent being reused too much. Likely they were relying on the varnish holding the magnets on, but none got to the base of the magnets, so only the tiny bits on the sides held. Going to guess all have the same issue, and all will fail sooner or later in the same way.
@jb9652
2 жыл бұрын
I agree re degreasing of the magnets prior to bonding. Very important, very difficult, and as you say goes wrong if the solvents become sufficiently contaminated. Degreasing at a factory I worked at back in the 1980s took three days and involved three vats of solvent.
@jb9652
2 жыл бұрын
I also agree that all the alternators in the batch are likely to fail similarly.
@billigerfusel
2 жыл бұрын
That's gaahhbage as they say in Bawwston.
@kokodin5895
2 жыл бұрын
to fix it you probably should do it in 2 steps 1 epoxy the core and slip on the magnets but separate them with teflon/polyetylene spacers and wait for glue to set 2 remove spacers and fill the gaps with more epoxy glue it could be better than factory with cheap metal to metal epoxy :P
@creepyloner1979
2 жыл бұрын
if you use paper spacers they become saturated with epoxy and you save yourself a step. some hard plastic heat shrink tubing around the whole thing while the epoxy's still wet couldn't hurt either.
@kokodin5895
2 жыл бұрын
@@creepyloner1979 fact i used epoxy mixed with aceton to make pcb patch out of paper napkin and it worked, still it might not be as precise as with solid spacers in this kind of rotor if it was able to fall apart by just excentric force the whole rotating assembly might need to be weighted to reduce wobbling
@wa7215
2 жыл бұрын
This appears to be a fairly well Engineered bicycle “ALTERNATOR” with a subsequently Rectified and Regulated DC Output, BUT, the one absolutely APPALLING design feature of it is the UNFORGIVABLE use, of JUST, GLUE, to affix the VERY STRONG, NdPr Magnet segments to the Rotor, just to save what would be a relatively minimal extra cost, of using a correctly designed Aluminium Alloy Containment-Cage to properly enclose and permanently, affix the Magnets in place. 😳 With ONLY, the Glue being used, this, is a Design, that was ALWAYS, GOING TO FAIL, at some point in the future, and the one glaring mistake the manufacturers obviously made, was to use a Glue, that didn’t last the distance, in terms of it outlasting their, Warranty period, for these devices. 😉😁😂😂😂
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
What is a "paragraph", and why are they used?
@wa7215
2 жыл бұрын
@@uploadJ Just a personal thing, because I always, HATE ..waste, ..even, wasting ..space, in a YT video reply column, and so I may be considered guilty, by you, of your, ..sin, of not (often) formatting my replies with the use of paragraphs, but, you will note, that I do always allow an easily noticeable, SPACE, between the end, and the start, of what would otherwise be ..space, and, line-feed, ..wasting Paragraphs. 😉😁
@uploadJ
2 жыл бұрын
@@wa7215 "White space" (as in programming) and paragraph breaks; learn to use them ...
@wa7215
2 жыл бұрын
@@uploadJ To now phrase this as politely as I can, Bud, ..KMA…!! 😉😁
@woosix7735
2 жыл бұрын
that doll in the backround... it seams like i dont want to know about that
@edgars53
2 жыл бұрын
There, there... That's actually one of the well known Troll Dolls, originating from Denmark, popular from 1960s to early 1990s. As a 90s kid, I had one of these myself.
@mattmoreira210
2 жыл бұрын
Gosh... I'd've attached those magnets with *lots* of glue to the rotor and, just for good measure, potted them in resin as well. But I guess that's the engineer in me speaking. The accountants would've hated it. 😂
@wjodf8067
2 жыл бұрын
a strong tape on the outside would have held
@gorak9000
2 жыл бұрын
@@wjodf8067 All the mechanical power needs to be transmitted through the glue from the spinning shaft to the magnets to spin them. Tape on the outside would do nothing for you if the glue fails - then you'd have a magnet ring that's still not connected to the shaft.
@mikefochtman7164
2 жыл бұрын
@@gorak9000 Well LARGE motors use a lot of fiberglass taping. Of course the rotor poles/windings are in machined slots so the torque isn't transmitted to them by simple friction/glue. But the 'banding' is to contain the high centrifugal forces when you spin the rotor at high speeds. So if they machined notches for each magnet to sit into on the rotor, and then machined a tiny notch on the outside of the magnets for some sort of high-strength band, would have been a lot better. But I'm sure, as Matheus pointed out, 'the accountants would have hated it.' 😂
@J0eMega
2 жыл бұрын
@@gorak9000just tape it down harder, bro
@eightysevenmoore
2 жыл бұрын
UVW = 3 phase commonly known as phase 1,2,3 or A,B,C. It’s a 3 phase PMAC motor. Delta wound.
@tomvleeuwen
2 жыл бұрын
People have been using alternators on bicycle wheels for ages to power the lights. These days it's integrated in the hub and the lights are LED, but back in the day these small alternators could also deliver a few watts of single phase power. A rectifier and buck-converter is all you need to charge your phone. Also the hub alternators are able to deliver a few watts
@ct92404
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, there would be a small generator mounted on the fork, which the wheel would turn by friction. But the problem with that is that makes the bike harder to pedal and it always caused more wear on the tire.
@tomvleeuwen
2 жыл бұрын
@@ct92404 Exactly, that's why I often drove without light in the dark😅. But the hub alternators hardly provide any resistance at all.
@g4gxl
2 жыл бұрын
@@tomvleeuwen of course any generator will create some resistance but the PedalCell is virtually undetectable in use. It is actually more efficient than hub alternators. The point of this is that it can charge a phone, bike computer and lights on a multiday trip where there is no access to mains charging.
@johnsonlam
2 жыл бұрын
It's absurd that the magnet falling of inside the motor, what's the price is that motor? I guess a few US dollar.
@00Skyfox
2 жыл бұрын
I feel bad for Muriel. All she ever hears is complaints. :P Wouldn't it be better to put rotor magnets on the bike wheel itself with a stator mounted at the top?
@ThatMontmorency
2 жыл бұрын
"DC brushless motor"... facepalm. There's no such thing as "DC brushless motor". A brushless motor requires 3-phase AC to run. All brushless motors are AC. Always. No way around it. If one slaps a DC-to-AC converter onto this motor (aka ESC), it will run off DC power. But still: nobody would call it a "DC brushless motor", except perhaps for American HVAC "professionals".
@mikefochtman7164
2 жыл бұрын
Wonder if this 'generator' application just over sped the rotor? I didn't see just how fast you were spinning (frequency would be good indication, although that stator is 3-phase, 2-pole, and you have 8 poles on the rotor, so that's not exactly 'textbook' generator configuration). But if that drive wheel is about 2.5 cm in diameter, a bicycle going about 15 mph (24 km/hr) would drive that thing over 5000 RPM. I think THAT is where they screwed up, not realizing just how fast it's going to spin and it simply 'spun itself apart'.
@harezy
2 жыл бұрын
Think he was peddling too fast trying to get to 88MPH and generate that 1.21 JIGOWATTS. Anyway, I hate cyclists can you reverse engineer that so it sends a 3 phase shock straight through the sadle 🧐🧐😁😁😂😂. Ps we have had this tecnology since the 80`s "Dynamos" why has this not been perfected yet 😂
@SolarizeYourLife
Жыл бұрын
Kingsong, an electric unicycle company had the same damn thing happen to their MOTORS!!!! 😡 $400 of crap....
@two_number_nines
2 жыл бұрын
those are the risks of inrunner rotor design. cars solve them by planting the magnets deep into the steel sheets of the rotor, so you could only see the magnets by looking from the sides. Having an out-runner rotor with a solid ring magnet such as the ones used in hard drives and cd/dvd roms is the easiest solution.
@IceNein763
2 жыл бұрын
I would assume it's just poor parts choice, they must be exceeding that motor's recommended RPMs
@johncoops6897
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, you got it. And a no-name supplier too, so the specs maybe exaggerated.
@pocoapoco2
2 жыл бұрын
In days past, those magnets would have been glued to the spindle, then screwed to the spindle straight through the back of the magnets and thread into a tapped hole into the spindle. Finally those screw heads would have been chisel/punch-set so they couldn't back out.
@peteb2
2 жыл бұрын
Wadda frick'n joke. We had bicycle DYNAMOS for a headlight forward the handlebars & single rear red light waaay back in the 1960s that had already been around for YEARS that ran against the tyre sidewall & are still working today (albeit that i don't have one on my modern bike)....
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