Never in my life have I thought I would associate zebras with despair and giraffes with hope
@EnsignRedshirtRicky
Жыл бұрын
Zebras are inclusivity, so this says more about Neil and Craig than despair or hope.
@stingerredshock3418
Жыл бұрын
@@EnsignRedshirtRicky How are zebras “inclusivity”? The only time I have seen zebras to be an allegory for racism was in Madagascar 2
@happynihilist2573
Жыл бұрын
Fun fuct: zebras are actually sycophats how do not value the life of their herd mates and only stay together because of it makes them harder to hunt
@user-kq5ci7ol8o
Жыл бұрын
Yeah what @@happynihilist2573 said, Zebra very much mean despair if your look into them, they kill their own kind for fun, they hurt others in order to show "dominance" even if they don't need to, they'll just hurt creatures around them cause they feel like it, they'll kill a male Zebra, steal their wife, and kill their previous children in order to be "cucks" and raise children that aren't theirs and in order to not fear retribution from the child (Granted the last one isn't as common of a reason cause often time they'll kill the father before the child has enough cognition to know who the hell their father was, so most of the time it really is just killing the child in order to not be a "cuck"), they're super violent, all in all, Zebras kind of suck, and being near one is not an ideal scenario
@FierceDeity35
Жыл бұрын
@@happynihilist2573psychopath. And yes, they are pure evil.
@Arcane_10_out_of_10
Жыл бұрын
Ashley Johnson is running in the beginning because she saw how little time is left in this season.
@jcore0981
Жыл бұрын
K that definitely got me😂
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
BTW, has anyone else seen the way Steven Seagal runs? Some funny shit.
@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09
Жыл бұрын
That opening fucked with my brain a little, 'cause when I heard that someone was running through the woods, I thought: "Okay, this will probably be Ellie's mother." but then when I heard Ashley Johnson's voice, I was immediately like: "No, that's Ellie that's running... no wait, that is not Ellie." because I associate Ashley's voice with Ellie so much.
@zachjohnson9674
Жыл бұрын
@Sith_Creepio no she’s running because she needs to bring something to Jacob to beat Batwoman (he was in that room off camera)
@Just-Saiyan
Жыл бұрын
LoL this might've made the "Comment Showcase" if it wasn't the last episode.
@gringles
Жыл бұрын
Neil really missed a golden opportunity to have Abby’s dad reach for a putter instead of a scalpel.
@toddstone230
Жыл бұрын
😂
@maffise2669
Жыл бұрын
could've had the zebra in the bed next to joel, recovering post-surgery
@purpleemerald5299
Жыл бұрын
“I won’t let you ruin my golfing day with my daughter-“
@bleeters5984
Жыл бұрын
Went the entire season without Joel throwing a brick at someone. The brick gang will not stand for this lack of representation.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
Brick vs Bottle what are the pros and cons?
@NoPantsBaby
Жыл бұрын
@@samwallaceart288 Brick won't shatter on impact. It will thud. Like a true chad.
@spartansquid5931
Жыл бұрын
@@samwallaceart288 You can fuck a bottle, you cannot fuck a brick
@toddsalisbury3851
Жыл бұрын
The Brick Union is filing a suit against the show for a lack of representation.
@Small-Chap
Жыл бұрын
Went through entire season without any big criticism as well. Sus😏
@YouMeTheMovies
Жыл бұрын
This adaptation further cements my belief that Joel saving Ellie actually keeps hope alive that humans can gain immunity to the infection. It is scientifically foolish to do an operation that kills the subject who is immune without fully understanding the the scope of her immunity while Ellie is alive. Marlene mentions Ellie's cordyceps gives off a chemical in her blood, that should be taking blood samples and trying to synthesize that chemical and see if they can recreate the immunity. Killing the subject to remove the cordyceps from the brain should be the last resort, not the first option. With the TV Show revealing that Ellie's mother was bitten while the umbilical cord was still connected and that she's basically been infected her whole life, it very well could mean that only Ellie could pass her immunity thru her offspring and in a sense she could be the Eve for a new immune human society. So back to the main point. Joel saving Ellie saves the world and is a far more positive and hopeful outlook for humanity with Ellie being alive and not dying under the knife. 🤠
@NTTofMistery
Жыл бұрын
that could happen, but in the words of a very wise drunk man Ellie's gay by the way i dont think she will have any children to potentially pass the immunity on to the rest is solid though
@InceyWincey
Жыл бұрын
Yup. Killing your one and only test subject within hours of finding them having done almost no research whatsoever is the worst decision you could possibly make. If you get anything wrong, if anything you assumed is incorrect, if someone makes a mistake with a solution or drops something and destroys the sample, if raiders turn up and a stray bullet hits the wrong container, if any one of thousands of things that could go wrong do, that’s it, you’re screwed.
@Kazserah
Жыл бұрын
Based, true, and love your channel
@YouMeTheMovies
Жыл бұрын
@@NTTofMistery She can still have kids. My buddy was a sperm donor for a lesbian couple. Just gotta pull out the turkey basters.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
Too bad Ellie is gay and won't pass on her immunity.
@aqua96870
Жыл бұрын
We need full episodes for Fat Geralt, Bigot Sandwich guy, and the zebra for season two
@FierceDeity35
Жыл бұрын
Agreed. Thoes are the "changes" that'll absolutely improve part 2.
@benl2140
Жыл бұрын
We need a 5-minute shot of Fat Geralt eating bigot sandwiches made with zebra meat.
@aqua96870
Жыл бұрын
@Ben L as soon as the zebra is saved by abbys dad, it runs off and you can see fat Geralt punch it in the background.
@jeronimo196
Жыл бұрын
Two guys, one horse.
@aqua96870
Жыл бұрын
@@jeronimo196 Two sandwiches, one zebra
@DailyDoseMain
Жыл бұрын
Weird that they cut the line "I have become Joel, destroyer of worlds" that was justwrite's favorite part
@leonardodavi2695
Жыл бұрын
Remember: Every single death after the end of part 1 (season 1) is Joel's fault.
@EnsignRedshirtRicky
Жыл бұрын
@@leonardodavi2695 Kang made him do it.
@mister-x2
Жыл бұрын
@@leonardodavi2695 And if you watch Druckmann's commentary on this episode, he basically says that. Unironically
@MGSVxBreakpoint
Жыл бұрын
@@mister-x2 Imagine being so sorry for what your fictional character did that you spend the rest of your life apologising for it.
@leonardodavi2695
Жыл бұрын
@@mister-x2 what else did you expect from a guy with such a childish mind?
@NickMK
Жыл бұрын
Joel and Ellie have not seen a zombie in like a year due to the show cutting almost all spores and zombie encounters, so that makes Joel's dilemma really a lot easier, just go live in that beautiful safe town, why sacrifice your new kid for a potential cure that they will distribute god knows how and will not change your day to day life in any way. It is just the logical play. "It makes cordyceps think that you are also cordyceps" "Marlene, I don't remember the last time I have seen a clicker, I think we will be just fine"
@JohnConstantine-ri9wh
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, the show definitely hurts itself with the lack of clickers. The best faith is that they saw/dealt with clickers a lot off-screen. Also discussion can be made about the countryside being safer but once you're in an urban environment, clickers are a lot more common or threatening. I would have been happy with more episodes starting with a clicker encounter, and showing the growth of their relationship through encounters
@florada34
Жыл бұрын
@@JohnConstantine-ri9wh "Somehow Joel and Ellie dealt with like 1000 clickers." is equivalent to "Somehow Emperor Palpatine came back."
@Сайтамен
Жыл бұрын
I think the crowd of infected in episode 5 makes this point clear enough
@FriendlyDarkwraith
Жыл бұрын
The crazed humans seem like a way bigger threat than the zombies. It's probably better to hope they all get infected or killed so they die out faster and let the sane humans start to rebuild.
@TheStarGuy200
Жыл бұрын
Definitely an issue with the time jump. Also a missed opportunity for world-building as we could have seen the “hive” aspect at work in either encounters replicated from the game or just entirely new ones
@Arcane_10_out_of_10
Жыл бұрын
Before season 2, Craig Mazin needs an intervention from Varys: "You are the Neil's hand and the Neil is a fool. Your friend, I know, but a fool, and doomed unless you save him."
@EnsignRedshirtRicky
Жыл бұрын
Craig is the moron taking a victory lap for fooling us into watching a gay soap in episode 3. He is in lock-step with tripping down the stairs with Neil in Season 2.
@LiamKennedyYT
Жыл бұрын
@@EnsignRedshirtRicky TF is wrong with you?
@aytony4090
Жыл бұрын
@Liam Kennedy It's quite true. That is what Craig Mazin called ep 3.
@ianhines2302
Жыл бұрын
“I had to see gay people on screen wahhhhh”
@DigiMyst
Жыл бұрын
@@EnsignRedshirtRicky What's wrong with gay soap?
@lucasmorahan4248
Жыл бұрын
I really hope we see Fat Geralt right-hook a child into a garage door in season 2
@SugarRayD
Жыл бұрын
Fingers crossed
@Gooning_Chunguz
Жыл бұрын
They'll never give us that W 😢
@comeatmebro8120
Жыл бұрын
I can't wait to see what Fat Geralt's diet is. Probably chili dogs, Doritos, and mountain dews
@Edax_Royeaux
Жыл бұрын
Hope they cast Christian Bale as Fat Geralt, he's willing to put on the pounds and the muscle mass to execute the perfect cinematic punch.
@blackwolf4653
Жыл бұрын
That was literally the best thing about the second Game.
@Negolash
Жыл бұрын
I love how at the end Abby shows up and says "It's golfing time"
@ihavenomouthandimusttype9729
Жыл бұрын
Never in the history of television has an audience been so apprehensive of the prospect of a second season to a show they are enjoying.
@clintbeastwood5116
Жыл бұрын
The interesting thing is that the Fireflies throwing the flash grenade actually makes them worse than in the game. It means they had zero intentions ever of negotiating with Joel, and if Marlene knew, she ordered them to do it so that they could knock Ellie out and eliminate her agency altogether. Joel did nothing wrong.
@nelguinevere4036
Жыл бұрын
She does tell Joel, when she's apologising for taking him out, that "patrol didn't know who you were". Which makes sense because that grenade could've killed their precious cure. But this does not make her and her group come across any better.
@cherryboys5331
Жыл бұрын
But the flash grenade *doesn't* knock Ellie out and the Fireflies pick her up off the ground like they're taking her in awake. They don't actually show Ellie get knocked out by the Fireflies and Ellie even mentions after she wakes up that she was *with* the Fireflies so they must have taken her in awake. Which means that Ellie HAS to be aware of the Fireflies doing something without her consent at some point, yet she never even brings it up. She was brought in awake and the show just conveniently cuts around that because it has a huge impact on Ellie's potential perspective at the end but they wanted to recreate the game's ending "1:1". But in the game, Ellie never even sees the fireflies and Joel has to tell her that they found them in the first place. This allows Joel to then lie about everything that occurred with the Fireflies. But with their changes in the show, at some point Ellie has to remember that she was awake with the Fireflies at Point A but is now waking up from drugs as Joel tells her at Point B. So from that she can infer that the Fireflies did something fucked up to her without consent, ESPECIALLY when you add that she saw them throw the grenade and bash Joel's head in. Even if the Fireflies lied about the reason why she was to be put under, she still would know she was put under, but they aren't even consistent with that because Ellie doesn't know what Joel's talking about when he tells her about the drugs. In fact, Ellie never even mentions the grenade or the fact that Joel got his head smashed open at all. So as the audience we have to wonder, is the show's new conclusion that Ellie knows that the Fireflies did something to her without consent, but she's totally on board and cool with it? Kind of an odd direction to take with her character after she just got done butchering a rapist. So basically, the show has added a HUGE variable to the ending that would likely change Ellie's behaviour entirely, but they just choose not to address it because they wanted to recreate the game's ending. Problem is, they didn't recreate the steps that the game took to get there too. They wanted to reach the bottom floor of the building, but they ignored that the game took the elevator and decided to just jump off the roof instead.
@finn2718
Жыл бұрын
I liked how when were first introduced to the Fireflies in Boston they are a racially diverse group with as many women as men, but when it’s time for Joel’s hospital rampage all the Fireflies are generic white guys.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
Generic white guys are the ones who made it across the country; everyone else was too busy bitching about their feelings
@RobertMorgan
Жыл бұрын
Total coincidence, don't look over here...
@datzfatz2368
Жыл бұрын
I guess all the diverse representatives died on the way over to Salt Lake City?^^
@NoPantsBaby
Жыл бұрын
What? No you must be delusional. Of course the bad guys are white.
@callumbreton8930
Жыл бұрын
@@datzfatz2368 I believe they were killed by a new strain of the Cordyceps, namely Neilum Cuckmannus
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
They did a speed run of the first season just to expand the second into 2 seasons. Bravo.
@Сайтамен
Жыл бұрын
The first game is 25 hours long, including the DLC, the second one - 35 hours long (plus I imagine the rewrites add more time).
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
@@Сайтамен yup they took 20 hours of potential good content and shoved it into 7 episodes (filler doesn't count) and they will be taking 30 hours of potentially terrible content and will be stretching it over twice as much time.
@jericho7173
Жыл бұрын
Tbf isn't the 2cd game twice as long as the first game?
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
@@jericho7173 its longer but not that much longer
@nhagan001
Жыл бұрын
@@jericho7173 it is also longer… and not in a good way. A lot of “going back and seeing the same event from a different perspective”.
@happynihilist2573
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact: due to a spending so much time without access to their native diet the giraffes would likely turn stark white
@cameronroy2129
Жыл бұрын
Withe? WITHE WHAT the suspense is killing me!
@BaldorfBreakdowns
Жыл бұрын
@@cameronroy2129 A withe is a twig. He's saying that due to lack of food, they would starve and become twig like.
@datzfatz2368
Жыл бұрын
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Im almost entirely certain that he meant "white" and just misspelled. But maybe you are right^^
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
"This is a fun fact." -Aragorn
@happynihilist2573
Жыл бұрын
@@cameronroy2129 *white, sorry dyslexia
@lokeyodinson8749
Жыл бұрын
I think Joel knew she would make the sacrifice given all the stuff they went thru and the change after the encounter with David's cult. She wasn't in the mindset to make a decision like that. There was no discussion, no compromise, they were just going to cut her up and that's it. Joel didn't have a choice imo, same as the fireflies. And if you want to split hairs, Joel was never paid. He could reasonably assume he was being marched off to be executed based on his conversation with Marlene.
@adrenjones9301
Жыл бұрын
One of the best shows in recent history. 4/10.
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
Hilariously accurate
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
Ye I'd actually agree haha not on that exact number but the sentiment is right.
@nicholaskinkaid
Жыл бұрын
What if EFAP became the inverse of IGN? Since IGN giving everything a 6 or 7 out of 10 despite how bad they think it is. EFAP give everything a 3 or 4 out of 10 despite how good they think it is? lol
@NoPantsBaby
Жыл бұрын
True statement.
@Senpaiaproves
Жыл бұрын
Marlene wasn't technically there when ellie was born. She showed up late.. it doesn't change anything but still.. lying Firefly person... "There are firefly people?!"
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
When Marlene shows up to the birth late and kills the mother, it's tragic. But when the baby-daddy does it it's marital neglect and 2nd-degree murder.
@PowerfulSkeleton
Жыл бұрын
Weaselly little liar dude
@rajatbokade9501
Жыл бұрын
I just hoped that there was a scene of zebra in the operating room helping the doctor. Would have been a setup for season 2.
@Сайтамен
Жыл бұрын
I thought Melman was a doctor, not Marty...
@comeatmebro8120
Жыл бұрын
In season 2 there will be a flashback revealing that there was a zebra just barely out of frame in the operating room
@elliedavies7138
Жыл бұрын
I really love the last conversation between Joel and Ellie. It seems like their responses to each other are really disconnected at first; but from her dialogue earlier in the episode and throughout the show, Ellie was bringing up everyone who died to make a point about how she needed it all to be worth something. Joel however, who's mind is in a completely different place, misunderstands what she's getting at and interrupts her with a monologue that he himself needed to hear more than she did. Which is then why she cuts him off to make him swear he was telling the truth. It's not insanely complicated, but I really like how all of it is conveyed with subtext. Again, using a conversation that, on its surface, seems way too disconnected. They do this a couple times in this episode; where a character will respond to what they interpreted due to their own mental state rather than what the other person actually meant or said. I think it's neat ^-^
@myboymassacred
Жыл бұрын
That’s really cool actually. Do you know about any other examples of movies and tv shows that do this? (or games as it’s straight from the game which I think is better)
@nelsonchike4812
Жыл бұрын
Just in case anyone is curious, they actually used a real giraffe. I myself thought it was CGI at first and ate my words.
@FierceDeity35
Жыл бұрын
Same here. It looked off, but I guess it was real.
@aytony4090
Жыл бұрын
@Hugo Wiberg it looked off because the room was entirely blue screen so the animal looks unrealistic with its background. Since the show has mainly used real locations our brains tell us the room is the one that is good while the animal looks off in some way. I also thought it was just really great cgi for the giraffe.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
REALLY? Giraffes look like that? Huh I stand corrected then. I guess they should've used a horse with spots painted on . . .
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
It still looked fake and it was apparently like 30ft tall
@Patrix8558
Жыл бұрын
i still wonder.. i read that they had no time to do a cg one, but at some shots it looks CG in movements, so I feel kinda thrown off. And in BTS shots only a head is visible, while i the show even half of the body (but I guess they could remove those blue rails to reveal more o fthe giraffe).. but im still curious to see some breakdown, because still.. having a real thing on set doesnt mean it is real in the final shot (like Bloater having real suit on set but they swapped him for CG Bloater in the end).
@justusbobo4546
Жыл бұрын
“It wasn’t time that did it” What a great line. That hit HARD
@jojo_n_dat7325
Жыл бұрын
That was such a powerful line and also contextualises how Joel doesn't think he could continue living without her hence justifying the final choice even more. I love it
@leakyboat224
Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad that Joel didn't follow it with, "it was you," or some other line that's explicit. We can put 2 and 2 together.
@benl2140
Жыл бұрын
@@leakyboat224 "It was you Ellie. You are The Last of Us."
@spartansquid5931
Жыл бұрын
@@benl2140 "It was you Abby. You are The Bulk of Us."
@myboymassacred
Жыл бұрын
@@leakyboat224 Really? You can put 2 and 2 together but you don’t think this whole scene is putting it together for you? Maybe this is a difference between American culture and European culture but I think that line was very cheesy and Hollywood-ish, unnecessary because of the ending and part 2 (and the upcoming seasons).
@Pekkamaattanen
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed watching these everyweek, Thank you!
@TheWunWhiteWolf
Жыл бұрын
I love how Joel doesn’t have to be chased to the elevator like in the game since he cleared out the entire floor.
@fy4b230
Жыл бұрын
Yeah. That part took me completely out of the scene in the game. Although it was tense, the whole time I was thinking, no way should I be alive right now.
@Zed012
Жыл бұрын
I think in the game the Fireflies are shooting wide to avoid hitting Ellie who is in Joel’s arms. I’m pretty sure that Marlene implies there are potential backup plans even with the doctor being merc’d by Joel, so him having Ellie in his arms and them likely still needing Ellie alive for a new attempt at the procedure is incidentally protecting Joel. Which is a stark contrast to the beginning of the game, where Joel is likely shot because the soldier sees him carrying his daughter and is ordered to open fire on them in case she was infected. Or it could all be my headcannon. I do know that they likely meant to imply that Joel in the game at least felt the Sarah/Ellie parallels (military types sacrificing his daughter and using the greater good as a justification), which is part of the reason he goes active shooter on the Fireflies. They deliberately showed a flashback to Joel’s daughter in Episode 1 when he went berserker on his FEDRA “buddy” for pointing a gun at Ellie, so it could have been on Neil’s mind to address in his second attempt at the story.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
I hated that. It ruined the tension of the scene. It doesn't make much sense that Joel would be able to kill every single firefly. They could have changed it to make it more realistic, but I liked how game Joel was more focused on getting Ellie out than taking down the fireflies
@TheWunWhiteWolf
Жыл бұрын
@@sivad1025 I do prefer how it was done in the game. But sadly because they have to justify the shitty sequel and She-Hulks motivation, they had to give Joel a more terminator vibe leaving basically no survivors.
@jojo_n_dat7325
Жыл бұрын
@@TheWunWhiteWolf Well this is in character for Joel as it ensures he has the best chance of guaranteeing his and Ellie's survival so what exactly is your criticism here?
@jimmytheenlightenedcentrist
2 ай бұрын
What a fucking incredible series of KZitem videos. Really really glad I finally got around to them. Thanks EFAP this was excellent. So many interesting arguments and discussions about storytelling choices. Love what you do.
@jorgamund07
Жыл бұрын
1:31:56 "What'd ya bring me?" A cycle of violence, Jacob.
@theloneobserver
Жыл бұрын
When I first played through the game, I shot the doctor in the head too, but then I had pause and wondered if that was a bit much. I reloaded the save just before that scene and the second time through, I just walked forward and disregarded the doctor. He didn't put up a fight. Joel just moved him aside. I always found it funny that Naughty Dog canonized that variable, kinda like Metal Gear Solid did.
@spitfiremase
Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure you can't not kill at least the doctor, i think he creates an invisible wall you cant get past until you at least try to melee him (which will make joel stick the scalpel in his neck). I've only ever played the first one on my old ps3, so it's been a while, but no videos testing it on the ps3 or remaster seem to get around killing the surgeon.
@madookamagooka743
Жыл бұрын
At the end of this I still don't know why spores were shafted and replaced with a connective hive mond sense that is only mentioned and used once in the same episode.
@kye4216
Жыл бұрын
So the actors arent always in gas masks
@benl2140
Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure the hive mind was also a factor in Ep 5.
@madookamagooka743
Жыл бұрын
@@benl2140 maybe, but in EP 5 they state that all of Kansas infected are underground, and that giant truck fell through the floor to let them out so idk if the hive mind sense had any part in that
@blackwolf4653
Жыл бұрын
@@kye4216 i played the game alot of times. You are not always in a Mask. Only in the action scenes with infected, wich this show didn‘t even have. So that point makes no sense to me.
@Ke-hs6vw
Жыл бұрын
I really liked Pedro and Bella as these characters, which makes me disappointed that their relationship felt kind of underdeveloped. I really think this show should’ve either been 1-3 episodes longer, or just more focused on the main plot. Still pretty good overall, but definitely has some things holding it back for me.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
10 Episodes. Make the "College" section its own episode with flashbacks of the Firefly scientist after outbreak day trying to study the new epidemic and make a cure of his own, before the martial law kicks in and destroys his lab, leaving him on a collision course with the eventual rebellion to start up a cure; flipping back and forth to Joel and Ellie fighting their way through infected in Colorado who are echoes of the outbreak we see in the flashbacks; then end the episode with Joel and Ellie finding the corpse of the scientist who offed himself after a monkey bit him. Make "Left Behind" just three flashbacks interspersed with the early winter survival section; that's all it needed to be and the flashback element would help move it along without so much filler. Episode 8 is perfect. Episode 9, make it 100 minutes long instead of 50, and make the hospital fight a Raid-style marathon, not a quick montage. Episode 3 is valid, keep it there.
@MrHarnaldo
Жыл бұрын
Out of the 9 episodes we probably only got 5 episodes of their relationship. Episode 1 was mainly before the outbreak, 3 and 7 were flashbacks, episode 8 they were separated for most of it. Even the episode with the brothers we had to watch alot of their story until they meet Joel and Ellie. People might argue time has passed but if we don't see this it doesn't feel earned. Compared to the games in the final mission I was fighting hard to get Ellie back because I believed their relationship because it was earned. It's harder to do it in a TV show but it definitely felt too rushed. Did we really need episode 3 and 7 if they season was so short
@AndrewThoesen
Жыл бұрын
This is my main criticism, which is odd. They did most of it right just… not enough.
@carmandirda
Жыл бұрын
I suppose it's a good problem to have. Your stuff is good. We just want more. I don't know that general audiences feel the same, but it seems like the game fans do universally.
@dougiefresh2789
Жыл бұрын
you actually feel any emotion coming from bella when she acts? i dont - but when i play the game i do
@BananaHammocks
Жыл бұрын
Show ends at like a 6 or 6.5/10 to me. Some incredible moments, I’m happy it exists and it was fascinating comparing it to the game. But it fell flat in a lot of ways. Most of my criticisms I think would’ve been fixed with more time per episode or more episodes.
@cynicalmemester1694
Жыл бұрын
There should've been atleast 2 more episodes solely based on Joel and Ellie.
@rickybindahoose6193
Жыл бұрын
The second I saw Ellie when I first played Last of Us I was like "That's the daughter from What Women Want!" Her voice is so unique and recognisable.
@TheButterAnvil
Жыл бұрын
Haven't seen that movie in forever, but I loved it when I was younger
@nicholaskinkaid
Жыл бұрын
OOO damn. Normally i'm great at connecting faces to old movies and such, but I didn't make this connection even though I saw that movie a couple of times... well played.
@PaulRaiiin15
Жыл бұрын
Even if Mr. 100 Intelligence doesn't change the script, he can still change the order of events to chronological which will help Season 2. Little changes to poor decisions by the characters along with reducing combat encounters which will lessen the impact of constant plot-armor can both help to make Season 2 watchable. Most of all, Abby needs to show hesitation and regret for her actions especially towards a man who just saved her life!
@NTTofMistery
Жыл бұрын
yeah i really hope that the change the events to be chronological because having them like they are didnt help the game and i cant see how it would help a tv serie
@legofreak20
Жыл бұрын
Dr. Uckman is ridiculous 😂 100 intelligence! psh how silly
@Patrix8558
Жыл бұрын
yeah, i think changing and order of some things is gonna help a bunch. Having all days happens at the same time (instead of a rewind that kills the pace) would be good. And also I think trying to delay the beginning, and leave it for a bit later could would help a lot as well.
@fathorse8
Жыл бұрын
They really should have done either one long season (12-18 episodes) or maybe even two seasons of 9-10 episodes for the first game. So much potential, and dont get me wrong, what we have is good, but it feels like we missed out on a lot of great stuff we're never gonna get now.
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
Not just that but as a show watcher only its not things you are missing out on. Its crucial emotional set up for the character payoffs and character development in general. I feel like we didn't get enough of Joel and Ellie. The payoffs were decent but they didn't hit like I'd wished they did. I think most people who played the game don't make this connection as they already know the deeper story of the two if you get me.
@jackreeves7
Жыл бұрын
That would be way too many episodes, 9 was enough
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
@@jackreeves7 Agree to disagree my mate. You only had 7 episodes really due to the flashbacks. (In terms of Joel and Ellies story). Director man was happy to add new things in to the show so why not actual episodes dedicated to Joel+Ellies character progression? I can meet you somewhere in the middle though, 12-15 episodes would have also worked I think. We just needed more meat on the bone Jack. Cheers mate.
@Franktamas
Жыл бұрын
9:00 It would've been fine to see the villagers in panic not knowing what to do as they became so dependent on David, that him not being there had a "headless chicken" effect on them in a time of crisis.
@JohnCenaWarriorPrincess
Жыл бұрын
The problem with the flashback in the opener is that Marlene should now know how to recreate Ellie. Meaning Ellie isn't really that important if you can make a new her at any time.
@legofreak20
Жыл бұрын
Not quite. Anna lies to Marlene about when she cut the cord in relation to the bite and Marlene wasn't present for the birth either.
@-Griffin
Жыл бұрын
@@legofreak20 53:30
@benl2140
Жыл бұрын
I dunno. Getting pregnant women bitten right as they're giving birth (and making sure the baby doean't die in the process) seems like something that would be pretty hard to replicate.
@19Ledor
Жыл бұрын
She only found out she was immune 14 years latter. Ellie‘s cordyceps is also a mutation since it acts completely antithetical towards the normal one, in that it is a symbiont not parasite. Maybe you get the same result, but the far more likely scenario is a lot of dead babies.
@catsquidcatoverlord9842
Жыл бұрын
@@benl2140 just adding on as well how in the hell are you going to get a mother to agree to it as well. "Hey, there was a girl who is immune due to her mother giving birth while infected, do you mind if we let a zombie bite you while in labour and doom you and your child to not having a mother, by the way we are not even certain what point she got bit so your child might die too anyway instead of becoming immune."
@RogueFox2185
Жыл бұрын
If this show had six more episodes and used the time that should have been used to flesh out Joel and Ellie’s relationship effectively (Looking at you EP3) this would probably have been a far better season since the show version of the main duo especially Joel himself comes off as very hollow imitations of their video game counterparts but as it stands now the show is just absolutely mediocre at it’s best, however the only REALLY stupid parts of the show was the explanation for Ellie’s immunity and the fact that they framed the Fireflies to look more sympathetic than they were in the first game as Joel takes them out in order to make Abby’s golfing session become justified in S2.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
I beg to differ; the Fireflies look the same here. My sis watching this blind, no game knowledge, watched Joel one-shot the doctor and was like "GOOD JOB. Don't stand and talk, just her and get out."
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
Olivia Cooke as Prime Tiger Woods incoming in season 2
@NoPantsBaby
Жыл бұрын
But bro! Of course you'd scoop out the brain of a little girl who is the only known immune subject because you believe the fungus in her brain scares other funguses, despite the fact she got bitten at all existing to the contrary. You never would just draw blood from her looking for antibodies against the fungus or whatevs.
@Phoenix0F8
Жыл бұрын
I was surprised that none of the EFAP crew had more of an issue with the immunity explanation scene. To me it seemed a bit much for a 9 months pregnant lady to accidentally give birth while fighting a zombie lol
@FriendlyDarkwraith
Жыл бұрын
The third episode not being taken up by 40 minutes of a gay sitcom might have given them a bit more time to establish character relationships that actually mattered.
@Saladrex999
Жыл бұрын
Amazing editing, and insightful commentary as always... very much appreciated!
@bertimusprime7900
Жыл бұрын
If anything, the lack of zombies makes Joel MORE right about his decision. The zombies are not as present of a threat, the people are. A cure isn't necessary, we need kindness. If only Waymond was in this show to help the world.
@redbearington3345
Жыл бұрын
No spores makes Joel more right since spores would be the most common infection
@bertimusprime7900
Жыл бұрын
@@redbearington3345 That too
@PoperoniNews
Жыл бұрын
This was some of my favorite EFAP coverage. Really looked forward to these videos each week. Thanks for the enjoyable content gentleman.
@diegodankquixote-wry3242
Жыл бұрын
The giraffe scene was too cute. The giraffe goes back to its family! 😭😊😭 Awesome and realistic outcome from an apocalypse like this.
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
In my subjectively objective opinion, this season was in the "okay" category from start to finish. Nothing special or amazing but also nothing to really rant about. I have my problems with it but... meh. It wasn't a pain to go through it like with some other recent shows, but I probably won't give it another watch out of my own initiative.
@Arcane_10_out_of_10
Жыл бұрын
@Deus Ex Machina A third place is respectable, but it's still a third place: If you play the game, you don't miss out on anything, so that's first place by default. If you watch the movie edit of the game on KZitem, in PlayStation 5 quality, you have superior, original voice actors and miss out on combat. If you watch the tv series, you have the additional disadvantage of the changes to retroactively fit the sequel.
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
@@hostmannsocrates4703 I agree.
@diazinamon2431
Жыл бұрын
I actually agree lol. This show has been way to uninteresting for me since ep 5. I don't mind watching through EFAP but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it myself.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
They spent too much time fleshing out irrelevant side characters who will die in that exact same episode anyway (including ep 3 so feel free to call me homophobe, whatever) instead of spending more time with the two protagonists.
@SumGuy099
Жыл бұрын
I rewatch alot of efap content, specifically efap movies and other stuff along that quality. This series coverage is gonna be some of the small percentage of efap content i actively avoid due to the quality of the show and efaps coverage of the show. Or like you said, there was nothing really special about this show that's gonna ever pull me back
@DistantDragon96
Жыл бұрын
Heard Laura Bailey's voice in the operating room and had a fright before realising they just cast her as one of the nurses. Abby there in spirit I guess.
@thewolfgirlexpert
Жыл бұрын
Honestly I think the biggest problem the show had was not enough episodes. Restricting themselves to 9 instead of say 15 really meant that they lost a lot of potential time between Joel and Ellie with ~3-4 episodes being taken up for intro/flashback material. In the game when Joel gets angry at Ellie and tells her that she sure as hell ain't his daughter it hit so much harder than in the show because of how long they have been together in the game, in the show we just don't have the same amount of contact with them together. I thought it was weird that they never talked about the weird tentacle kiss that happened with Tess, it just is never brought up again. I would've really liked a reason, was it because she was already bit? If they can tell who has the fungus inside of them by pheromones or something then does that apply to Ellie or does her mutated version not make them? It is just such odd addition for no reason. And I would've enjoyed a lot more of the flashbacks to outbreak day in other countries to see how they did it like the Indonesia flashback. Personally I preferred and was really excited for survivor Bill so as much as I liked the seeing the Bill/Frank story it did lose some points for me in that department. And Bill standing in the street while shooting really disappointed me. I thought that episode 7 felt really out of place (maybe because since it was a DLC I actually played it after the main game and not in the middle) and had some changes to it that kind of hurt the writing like the arcade machines actually working instead of having Riley help Ellie imagine the game in her head which cemented that they were very close quickly. The infected fight scene is really poorly done in EP7 as well, having Riley get knocked out like that was just really weird and unrealistic. I didn't think that David was as creepy in the show, and without the trust that was developed with the infected fight his betrayal doesn't seem to hit as hard. Although I think the religious cult angle of David not actually believing it but using it to keep control works I do wonder why it needed to be a religious cult in the first place. In theory if season 2 is source accurate there will be plenty of religious cult with the Scars. As for the last episode I thought it was really good and am glad that my worries didn't come to fruition. The only real gripe I had was with them explaining Ellies immunity, that isn't something that needed to be done even much less so by having her mother kill an infected while actively having contractions right before giving birth. Ellies immunity just isn't something that needed to be explained in any way shape or form, all the story needed was "it mutated or something" which is completely plausible and much less convoluted than "Her mother was bit right before she was born therefore her infant immune system was able to beat the fungus". Overall though it is without a doubt the best videogame adaptation made so far. But sadly Druckmann has said that he doesn't plan to change anything substantial with the 2nd part, so we have that dumpster fire to look forward to.
@HisNameWasCrazy
Жыл бұрын
Does this mean every death that occurs on HBO is now Pedro Pascal's fault?
@Bouncy_Ball_Studios
Жыл бұрын
My mom just finished watching the show and the first thing I asked her was what she thought about Joel’s decision. She said that even though there might have been some chance for a cure, the Fireflies didn’t have to stake everything on killing Ellie, and she was baffled that they didn’t even tell her. Keep in mind, my mom is the kind of person who would normally find killing sprees to be excessive and terrible, but she seemed to be completely on Joel’s side.
@wwyd4akb
Жыл бұрын
Based Mom
@kngt_ldr9853
Жыл бұрын
The show did everything in it's power to make Joel shooting the hospital up tragic, even reprise the main theme but making it dark and sad. Bu Marleine's speech to Joel? She says the doctor "believes" and uses words like "might", yeah that's not enough to let the only person you really care about die. Plus we see so few infected I don't see them as much of an issue and finally they have like what? 15 fireflies and they're SOMEHOW going to distribute the cure to the world? Get out of town...
@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09
Жыл бұрын
He thinks that the Cordycepts have grown with Ellie since birth, which is something that Marlene would be able confirm, since she knows what happened when Ellie was born.
@kngt_ldr9853
Жыл бұрын
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 There is no way to know if the "good" fungus in Ellie is universally compatible, for all we know it would be just as damaging as the normal one in anyone other than Ellie. There are a ton of variables that make it guess work, Hell for all we know it only works if you grow up with it making it a vaccine that only works on day old babies...
@EziooAuditore
Жыл бұрын
It's still a scene of a person murdering a lot of other people. Yes it's to save the one person he really cares about, so we understand that. But from the Fireflies POV they're doing this to save the world, those random soldiers also might not even know about the viability of the cure or that Ellie wasn't told etc. Basically their death can also be tragic. I don't think they're framing it as more tragic than in the game.
@tonedeaftachankagaming457
Жыл бұрын
@@EziooAuditore Exactly, the thing we've been looking for isn't for Joel to be completely vindicated. Obviously Ellie not being asked is not morally good, but Joel is still taking the chance for a cure down from something to practically 0. That is a decision he makes and the point is to present that as grey. The Fireflies were the bad guys, but they had a good cause even if it was a long shot. Joel, however, is not necessarily the good guy. He is a person who is taking on the responsibility of maybe hurting the world to save someone whom he loves, and his reasons for the decision have been explored the entire story. The story is supposed to tear you a little rather than having someone to hate and someone to completely root for.
@kngt_ldr9853
Жыл бұрын
@@EziooAuditore The viability of the drug is very important, the fireflies being delutional about saving the world doesn't really change the whole: "killing a young girl on the off chane we can sorta make a vaccine we can't distribute, maybe." any less wrong. Also from the POV of the guys getting killed, getting killed is always a tragedy...
@canderoussnurd4265
Жыл бұрын
This show was painful to get through. Ironically enough not because of what it did wrong but what it did right. This show managed to write a semi cohesive story whilst deconstructing the source and made it so well that it tricked people into thinking it’s good. So much of this shows good aspects are in how it was shot and the music. Once you peel back the venire and really pay attention to the story contradictions and countermanding world building in service to inserting “the message” it’s impossible to enjoy. Specifically when you know ahead of time why the changes to the story were added which is to make Joel out to be a selfish prick rather than having the show leave it up to the viewer. The scene with him massacring the entire hospital rather than sneaking and killing only as needed to get to Ellie was such an obvious “look how evil Joel is. He’s murdering people who just wanted to save the world” moment that I just about rolled my eyes out of my head. Add to it that the writers changed the fire flies from terrorists who may have a means to make a cure and would certainly use it to leverage power, to definitively can make a cure and would share with all because of altruism. Hell the fact that they changed the surgery so that it would be nonlethal by admitting that they just needed to replicate the cells to create the cure is a rant in and of itself. And really the whole point of Ellie being immune to the cordicepts because it convinced the mycelium network she was one of them despite the fact that that same network doesn’t stop the clickers and bloaters from attacking her? Jesus Christ this is dumb. Story breaking dumb. How in the holiest of fucks did you guys give this show this much if a break and yet you shat on Book of Boba Fett for the exact same issues of ruined characters, setting that contradicts, world building that makes no sense and two episodes that have nothing to do with the main narrative and could easily have been cut and made no difference to the main story. Good music, and good cinematography doesn’t stop shit from being shit my dudes. It’s shocking how much grace you extended this show when it’s barely better than Book of Boba Fett. Just my two cents. Still love ya guys.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
At least Velma deserves some respect for going full on nihilistic way in destroying the franchise that everyone on the planet (except for Mindy Kaling) hates it. The Last of Us just tricked the audience that it’s good in order to set them up for a huge disappointment next season.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely hate that they changed the massacre to a montage. You may still be on the "Joel is right" side, but to me, the writers were screaming at the audience, "Look how evil he is!" The fact he was casually walking into empty rooms for the sole purpose of killing (surrendering) men was completely unnecessary. It didn't convey any of the intensity of the game. There's never a sense that Joel's life is in danger because Pascal plays it so nonchalantly. They changed the ending as much as they could to make Joel the villain without outright alienating the fans.
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
Well, they had to make it go that way at least a little bit, because otherwise people are going to hate season 2 just as they did Part 2.
@r.e.z9428
Жыл бұрын
Neil hates Joel and this whole show is him rewriting TLOU with how he wanted it to go. He didn’t have anyone to reign him in like the game.
@kenkaneki3873
Жыл бұрын
They absolutely reframed it to make him more evil. Playing sad music as Fireflies scream in pain on the ground while Joel walks up and stabs them, with another guy trying to surrender before Joel executes him.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
@@Kernwadi Funny enough, my dad has never played the game but knows Joel dies and his immediate response was, "I think they're trying to make the audience hate Joel so you aren't mad when he dies in Season 2." The fact that a normy clued into that really displays how on-the-nose it was. I can't believe so many fans are giving it a pass for what are effectively emotional cheap shots.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
@@kenkaneki3873 Exactly, and the small dialogue changes like "What would she want?" from "This is what she would have wanted." I also don't think people are talking enough about how Pascal's performance reframed it. In the game you get a sense of urgency because his life and Ellie's are both at stake. They intentionally gutted that urgency with how it's filmed and it seeped into Pascal's performance. He looks moreso bored than worried
@dukeofdarlo5896
2 ай бұрын
Aww, that emotion on Joel's face in the TV show when Ellie tells him not to scare the giraffe.🥺 That fatherly care is so fucking good and yet so subtle! He just wants to make her happy! 😭
@ninjasr
Жыл бұрын
Can't wait to read the comments for this one. Also curious to see the comment showcase, and if/how EFAP mishandles it again.
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
It's been a bit of a mess with this one. I know that people wanted it, even I did, but it's been very meeeeh. In some cases they even kinda made things worse for themselves.
@EziooAuditore
Жыл бұрын
I don't see how they're mishandling the comments.
@ninjasr
Жыл бұрын
The comment showcase this time was also disappointing. Some particularly good comments were absent, but there are any number of reasons why they weren't/couldn't be included. At least nothing like the infuriating 'headcanon', as far as I'm aware (besides maybe 'detrimental to TLOU2').
@ianjohnson182
Жыл бұрын
Hey guys, absolutely loved your coverage! Loved the format, would happily watch more of this format of content. No preference on the show in question; I know that keeping up with an actively airing show is a crazy schedule to maintain, but I'd be just as happy watching you do a watch through of an old show as a current one (plus an old show is more likely to be good than a modern show).
@bZman
Жыл бұрын
The most gripping thing about TLOU is the entire relationship between Joel and Ellie and the theme of finding family and healing from loss and misery and finding a reason to live again. That living is only meaningful when you have someone else to live for.
@Glorkish
Жыл бұрын
Holy snacks, that was intense! I never played the game but your coverage of this season kind of makes me want to at some point... Also watching tje season outside of EFAP would be an idea to consider. Thanks a lot for the editing, the work, the honesty, the everything.
@benl2140
Жыл бұрын
There's one thing that I'm kind of surprised you didn't bring up. Previously in the show, even a few enemies could be a real threat, and had to be taken seriously. In this episode though, Joel can kill dozens of armed (and presumably pretty experienced) enemies without breaking a sweat. When he gets to the surgery room, I don't think he has a scratch on him.
@FriendlyDarkwraith
Жыл бұрын
And we know the reason why.
@battlecast9202
Жыл бұрын
Pretty sure he only killed like 5 people in this episode? In the previous episode he subdued 2 people and killed 3 while still having a stab wound.
@ChrisAFigaro
Жыл бұрын
@@battlecast9202 for convenience sake. you guys need to cope.
@battlecast9202
Жыл бұрын
@TheChrisAFigaro wym, like it was convenient he managed to kill/subdue 5 guys? Twice? I guess. Idk if I'd say it's inconsistent though. He consistently manages to win fights
@ChrisAFigaro
Жыл бұрын
@@battlecast9202 The original commentor stated that in this episode, there was no real threat, conveniently, unlike the previous episodes. It wasn't whether or not he took down a few guys. Also, that stab wound part in ep 7 where he suddenly gains strength out of nowhere. Yeah, that's convenient too.
@MSguy1000
Жыл бұрын
Fun facts: Ashley Johnson not only had a cameo in The Avengers (2012), but also in Lie to Me S2E11 as the character Valerie. The baseball field where they encounter the giraffe is just as it is in the game, where a developer snuck in a tribute to his wife, calling it the "Bethany Clare Field". Abby might not have been in the operation room, but Laura Bailey, the voice of Abby, plays one of the doctors in the background in the show. That's it. See you in Season 2. Or maybe not. 'Cause it's TLOU2, and I have suffered enough with that story.
@randomusername3873
Жыл бұрын
This is the moment Joel became responsible for every single death in the world for all eternity
@R0CKDRIG0
Жыл бұрын
And thus he became inverted Jesus
@kenkaneki3873
Жыл бұрын
Which is unironically true now because Druckmann said Joel doomed humanity
@florada34
Жыл бұрын
Which is weird, because with a lack of spores and a lack of infected being shown, there is no need for a cure, which makes his actions even more correct.
@denkerbosu3551
Жыл бұрын
@@kenkaneki3873 No, it's not true, Cuckamnn is just wrong.
@lesserknown5138
Жыл бұрын
Ever bullet fired from his gun was laced with the last gasp of a zebra
@ceturc1
Жыл бұрын
Lucky joel. When he was getting mowed down by 3 gunmen the screen goes dark and he kills them. also before than this episode 6 they walk with meele weapons episode 8 they all have hunting rifles He is the luckies guy alive that none of them brought any weapons to the university.
@Hollyclown
Жыл бұрын
With the comparison, it really showed to me Marlene’s desperation for a win for the Firefly’s. I never felt like they had the future of humanity in mind, only leverage against their enemies. Seeing both versions confirms that in my mind.
@leonardodavi2695
Жыл бұрын
Nice that they mentioned my comment about Joel being stronger while in critical condition. uhul! \o/ but I think they missed the point I made a little bit. The problem is not wether or not Joel would be able to do that. Is that he barely did any of that while in full health. Joel in the game is much stronger from the get-go, so his beast mode while injured felt more natural. But yes, he used more cunning than physical strenght to subdue the hunters in the series. So it wasn't a full on beast mode Joel, it was more of a hunter/smuggler mode Joel. Both approaches have merit.
@Neo2266.
Жыл бұрын
Oh goddammit, I should have said this on the last episode: So in the game, Ellie escapes from the cannibals first, and then causes a mess *inside* the town. The town goes on full alert trying to find her. Meanwhile, Joel Arrives, the chaos that's going on inside the town makes his entrance easier (The town is still fortified though) Then when Ellie is fighting David, the fire that breaks out tips off Joel to her location, that's why he can arrive that fast. In the show however, the fact that people are being eaten is kept a secret in David's group. So it makes sense that the corpse storage would be in a remote location, and that nobody would actually guard that location because A) you don't people from the group to start asking questions. B) What's anyone actually gonna do with that? If a group of raiders come across a freezer with 4 corpses in it, their first instinct probably isn't gonna be to steal those, they're gonna get scared and run away if anything. C) Seems like anyone who *would* have been guarding that place is currently hunting down Joel. (so dead already) So Joel meeting basically no resistance in the show actually makes a lot of sense. With that being said, I way prefer the game's approach to him showing up to comfort Ellie right after she kills David.
@badnewsjp
Жыл бұрын
Surreal meta tension! On the edge of my seat hoping it happens how I already know it happens - and it delivered alright, hats off all round
@bibidable3965
Жыл бұрын
One great addition to this episode was the scene where Joel talks to Ellie about his suicide attempt. Such a great line at the end of that scene about how it's not time that brought Joel back from the depths of despair, but rather the new purpose he found in his relationship with Ellie. Additionally, I think another point that is made by this scene is that even though a person might think they are ready to end their life, even up to the point of pulling the trigger, they might change their mind at the last second. I wonder if this will come up in season 2 as a way of supporting Joel's decision at the end of the episode - future Ellie might look back in hindsight and think with 100% certainty that she would've made the decision to sacrifice herself for a chance at a cure, but in reality she was not able to properly give consent at the time so she might have made a different decision at the last moment, like Joel did. This and a few other scenes give me a bit of hope they can fix the story in season 2. But then in the post-episode interviews it seemed like there is still the idea that Joel doomed humanity for all time with his decision, so that brings me back to thinking season 2 will mostly be unchanged (although it was mostly Neil Druckmann who was saying that, so maybe Craig Mazin can subtly change things for the better).
@jacktease27
Жыл бұрын
Fun Fact: The voice actor for Abby plays one of the Nurses
@Edax_Royeaux
Жыл бұрын
Also I think Abby was in this episode, I think she was the one nearly shot by Joel as she runs away from that kiosk.
@blackwolf4653
Жыл бұрын
@@Edax_Royeaux she was and i don‘t know why nobody talks about it. If you slow it down you even see her Signature Hairstyle moving in the Air as she sprints away.
@Edax_Royeaux
Жыл бұрын
@@blackwolf4653 Apparently Druckmann insists that's not Abby.
@blackwolf4653
Жыл бұрын
@@Edax_Royeaux well he also said that in TLOU2 you don‘t have to Kill any Dogs. He also said he respect Joels Character. Why would i belive a proven liar.
@Edax_Royeaux
Жыл бұрын
@@blackwolf4653 I think he's a liar too, I'm just pointing out he's shut down the discussion on whether or not that's Abby.
@taloutezero
Жыл бұрын
I like how Fringy was doing the intro to Cowboy Bebop and Ragss was just doing nonsense
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
"But, how did it make you... feel?" -Bilbo Baggins
@BlackHawk19er
Жыл бұрын
I feel like this episodes really suffers from the poor placement of ep7. I feel like we needed time between ep8 and ep9. Joel has drastically shifted from generally liking Ellie to full on dad mode. Ellie however has gone from constantly pushing Joel’s buttons while trying to appeal to him, to being stand-offish and seemingly uncomfortable. I think we needed time for the characters to process the change in themselves as well as in each other (also to probably deal with the trauma Ellie endured). We as audience probably needed a breather and a chance to re-establish their relationship (keep in mind in real time we haven’t seen these two characters interact in 2 weeks)
@asimplewizard
Жыл бұрын
Totally disagree (but respect the opinion.) I think ep7 was the breather in between episode episode 6 and 8, where their relationship did go through massive changes. Ellie's reaction in this episode is a direct result of the ending of the adventure approaching and the near cannibal rape she just experienced. Joel's relationship dynamic finished evolving in episode 6 when he chose to steal the horse, while if Ellie had an episode of breathing room, the audience wouldn't be feeling her standoffishness as potently as Joel felt it in the moment.
@BlackHawk19er
Жыл бұрын
@@asimplewizard I think I would agree with your assessment of 9 (also I believe this what the writers intended). That being said, the reason I see trouble with is because when we last seen them (hugging in the snow) that’s telling us “yep these two are locked in now”. Now we see them immediately in 9 and that’s not the case. I’m not familiar with how the game handles this transition, but sense the show doesn’t offer us scenes where the two even process the events of 8 (the whole being eaten/raped/possible being burnt to death), I found it difficult to discern wether or not Ellie was stand-offish because the journey was coming to an end or of the trauma she endured. Regardless, I think overall the show did a pretty fine job.
@asimplewizard
Жыл бұрын
@@BlackHawk19er see I think that ambiguity as to why she's upset is interesting imo. I always thought Ellie was always somewhat aware she was gonna die for the cure so she's balancing everything together while Joel has never felt closer. All totally subjective. I loved it tho
@shaecouture7480
Жыл бұрын
He knows what she did and went through to save his life, that is why he is full on dad mode. She is traumatized by what happened to her and what she had to do. Their behavior is completely logical based on the prior episodes events.
@BlackHawk19er
Жыл бұрын
@@shaecouture7480 I suppose we just have to assume that. Since we never actually see them talk about it.
@cleanserofnoobs4162
Жыл бұрын
This music is gunna be so nostalgic. Like, "Hey, remember yt stream into song? It was lit!"
@manuelcartagena8052
Жыл бұрын
The lack of combat does hurt the show, not because there's a lack of entertaining violence but rather that we don't get to see just how monstrous Joel and later Ellie could be.
@florada34
Жыл бұрын
Or you know, the general world.
@Kernwadi
Жыл бұрын
“I'd rather be handicapped than a communist.” -Samwise Gamgee
@FierceDeity35
Жыл бұрын
Dead > handicapped > communist
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
Wise words
@adrenjones9301
Жыл бұрын
Not every Handicapped is a Communist. But every Communist is Handicapped.
@cherryboys5331
Жыл бұрын
I've seen a ton of people all articulate that they felt that Joel and Ellie's development was rushed and that they needed more time to develop them, and I agree, but I don't think the solution is just as simple as "more episodes". You can take an edit of the game that includes all of the cutscenes and all of the important gameplay moments including important fights, boss fights, and the dialogue of Ellie and Joel when they're walking around and it only clocks in at just over 5 hours. The Show in comparison, which most people say was rushed, clocks in at almost **double** the runtime. I think the issue with Joel and Ellie stems more from them removing a ton of the little meaningful moments that build up the relationship in subtle ways while keeping in all of the major moments regardless. It makes the big moments feel unearned because they didn't put in the legwork it takes to get the characters to behave that way, which results in people feeling like its "rushed" even if they took way *longer* to get there. For example, in the Bill section of the game, you have Joel being *forced* to take the "father" role by breaking up the two "siblings", Bill and Ellie, which eases him nicely into that fatherly role at a time when he would never have chosen to do so. You also have the moment where Joel is caught in the snare and Ellie steps up to save him for the first time as Joel has to shoot infected to protect her. It was the harsh reality of the world forcing them both into a vulnerable position and they stepped up and showed they were stronger together, even though they still didn't even get along at that time. The Show removed all of those interactions and instead just had Joel start being slightly more friendly to Ellie when they strolled into Bill's house. It wasn't earned, it was just carried by a vague sense of "Well they travelled together and talked to each other, so they're closer now". Theres no tangible moment you can point to and say "That's where Joel was forced to be less of a bodyguard and more of a dad". Its all just more of a foggy "Protector=Dad" idea and there's never the subtle distinction between the two that the game got across without ever having to state it directly. Another example: Sam and Henry's section. The Show spends a lot of screen time focusing on Kathleen, but her arc ends up not affecting Joel and Ellie in any tangible way. I've seen lots of people say "It enhances the themes" but it feels more like abandoning actual character work with the protagonists in favour of those themes. Because they wanted to keep the beats from the game and Kathleen wasn't in the game, they really COULDN'T let her do much to affect the actual character arcs. A character who was set up like Kathleen was really SHOULD have been allowed to kill either Sam or Henry. But they needed to have the "Sam Turns, Henry Minecrafts himself" scene. Its why adding new characters into an adaptation is so precarious, because you're often forced to choose between being unfaithful to the source or gutting that character of any real impact. So all they've done is waste screen time they could have spent on exploring the "Sam and Joel are separated from Henry and Ellie" section, or the "We stay together" moment, or any other little subtle moment that allowed them to naturally build up the bond between Ellie and Joel. It would even have given them more time to show off their dumb hivemind infected thing that they did literally nothing with! Think of how much character work you could have done with Joel getting stuck with a deaf Sam! All missed opportunities for the sake of Druckmann writing his "Tess Idea" everyone vetoed back into the plot. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you need to have all the little scenes in order to make the big scenes work. That old Devil really does hide in the details and if you aren't careful, you'll trade in the heart and soul of your adaptation.
@dylanchilders
Жыл бұрын
Im like 99% sure that the house Ellie’s mom gives birth in is the same house Ellie and Dina settle into towards the end of the second game. Just putting that out there…
@telroak7754
Жыл бұрын
after a full season i can confidently say that removing the spores was a very stupid move.
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
I was sure they were setting something up with that but they really did just use it once and never mention it again lol
@Eis_Cold
Жыл бұрын
Honestly the spores makes the cure much more important to me compared to the hive thingy because how usefull will the cure be when you get jumped by a swarm of zombies (and probably ripped apart) compared to comming into contact with spores that infect you but leave no other damage?
@scottishcelts2040
Жыл бұрын
Man I can't believe I missed so many beats. Lookin forward to a binge watch of the season. Thanks guys been brilliant coverage 👏 👍
@lieutenantnomad9198
Жыл бұрын
In season two, every time Ellie kills someone, someone else needs to yell "KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!!!!"
@KingNikolasBojakKai
Жыл бұрын
The best "What'd you bring me," of all time
@Jack_Cache
Жыл бұрын
I couldn’t help but be really distracted how this episode frames Joel’s rampage as evil. While the sequence of events was pretty similar, the music and editing seems to portray Joel’s actions as unambiguously evil. The way the sequence isn’t edited like a desperate scramble to get to Ellie, but a montage of specifically the killing, with ominous music playing. In the game, Joel’s actions are more frantic, blocking doors as he goes so that he won’t get overwhelmed, and running away with Ellie dodging gunfire (somehow). In the show, he makes it look easy by comparison. The loss of life is tragic, but justifiable. We don’t portray all tragic but justifiable violence in this way. The scene plays a lot better in the original, portraying the violence in a brutal, desperate way, letting the events speak for themselves, letting the audience feel for themselves. Joel is focused entirely on saving Ellie, but the show is focused on the loss of life, lingering on the corpses. When dealing with a morally complicated situation, the music and editing are sort of leading the witness. In the show, it feels like we’re judging Joel, while in the game, you’re feeling what Joel is feeling. It does seem like they changed the framing to convince people Joel was in the wrong, so that season 2 will seem better. It won’t.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
You get it. So many people (including Drinker) are praising the "ambiguity" because it's similar to the game. But the tone of the scene seems unambiguous to me. It dawned on me today that they also make the fireflies wildly incompetent so they seem like sympathetic underdogs. You have one guy running away, another surrendering. Why...? These are armed, veteran survivors. They should have banded together and flanked Joel like they do in the game when you're caught. The only reason to show them pathetically retreating and surrendering is to make the audience feel like Joel is the aggressor and the bad guy.
@leadleghighkick104
Жыл бұрын
I’m sorry I tend to sympathize with Joel’s choice more than others but there’s no getting around the brutality of the massacre
@randomusername3873
Жыл бұрын
@@sivad1025 I thought they would do a lot more to be honest Like have Ellie actually choose to die
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
Anything to justify Abby in season 2 but what’s funny is that with the lack of infected since episode 5, it changed Joel’s action from morally ambiguous into 100% right.
@florada34
Жыл бұрын
@@leadleghighkick104 It's quite easy, they were going to kill a girl for no reason. It's not even that hard to work around.
@mateusramosbon63
Жыл бұрын
The one thing that they last making the show joel less hardy and cold, is that operating room scene. It's a character that's very serious and very distant for so much of the game, yet when sees ellie in the operating table he just turns so emotional. You can hear his voice change, and his breathing accelerate. It's such a good scene in the game. The show one was good, but it seemed like joel was more "aware" that he was doing a lot of evil for a good reason. Even when he saw ellie, his face barely changed, and he still talked in a monotone voice. I preferred the game one, but the show does a really good job regardless. Thank God the druck didn't subvert my expectations all over this season
@jericho7173
Жыл бұрын
I think its an interesting choice that in the show Joel's shooting is framed more like a massacre and he can take his time leaving. Where the game it's more of a dramatic escape after surviving a rescue.
@malzo1701
Жыл бұрын
They were going for the incel shooting up a school vibe and they honestly nailed it.
@Patrix8558
Жыл бұрын
it is obviously purely to set up S2's story so the change and revision isnt drastic. It was sadly apparent that they made show Joel to be Part 2 Joel since the beginning, instead of Part 1 Joel.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
Then he also walks suuuuuper slow down the pediatrics hallway when the doctors are potentially killing Ellie. Man I hate this episode so much. They could not have made Joel seem any less urgent and concerned with Ellie's well-being. How a game from 2013 conveyed fear and intensity better than a high budget TV show in 2023 is beyond me.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
Anything to justify the golfing session
@cynicalmemester1694
Жыл бұрын
@@sivad1025 He walks slow because the building is literally fucking filled with armed men who could be around any corner and get the jump on him. Rushing around in the open like a retard might not seem that bad in the game but it would be incredibly stupid in the show. Not to mention that we don't actually see how fast he was moving around since it was an edited montage sequence.
@antraxxslingshots
Жыл бұрын
end reminded me of unvorgiven. a man who has something buried deep inside, but no matter how deep, there is always stuff that makes it resurface
@CrustlessKing
Жыл бұрын
Let us not forget, TLOU2 makes it clear that the Fireflies effectively disband as a faction following the events of this story, meaning they can't have been in a particularly strong state prior to Joel's actions here, calling the efficacy of a Firefly cure distribution plan and the profundity of Joel's impact on the fate of the world even further into question. It's not being said aloud, but from what we've seen of Marlene, she's clearly feeling pressure to take responsibility for the survival of her organization, and she's lamented how many lives have been sacrificed under her leadership. Her perspective, similar to Ellie's and others in the show, seems to be that it can't all be for nothing, but the game and show both present clear evidence that refusing to sacrifice our humanity, the last of us, is how we make our lives and the lives of those we've lost matter for something. Working toward some nebulous greater objective at any cost, by any means necessary, even supposedly in service to the welfare of others, is ego disguised as nobility. It's thinly veiled sunk cost, animalistic-survival-mode thinking that can push people to make very harmful and ill-conceived decisions. The way Marlene talks, it is clear she doesn't have a clue how a cure is going to work out and the Fireflies are making this up as the go. If the Fireflies are already on their last legs as a faction, reversing that momentum is going to require leveraging a cure as a recruitment tool and means of revenue, Marlene clearly recognizes this reality even if she is in denial of it, so in her mind getting a cure out of Ellie is the only means of survival, that is why she says she has no choice. The reckless decision to hastily murder a teenage girl on the operating table and invoke the wrath of a very dangerous and capable man are made in utter desperation despite their illogic, like the death throes of a dying zebra. With all this considered, the audience should completely disregard the implication that Joel and Ellie "could have saved the world." What is more compelling is the discussion about whether Joel in this decision to rescue Ellie is similarly as driven by selfishness and ego as the villains of the season. Is he acting to preserve his humanity, or is he discarding it? Is Ellie's humanity being preserved, or is he further depriving her the remnants of her childish innocence and denying her aspiration to make a difference to the world, naive though it may be? What is the appropriate role of a parent in thar regard, or a de facto adoptive-parent as in this case? Is it right to love at the expense of others, or even at the expense of the ones we love? These are all interesting and difficult questions that I think TLOU1 presents in a very mature way. Sure would have been nice if the sequel had followed suit...
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
Marlene decides the safest place for Ellie is _inside the FEDRA military grinder._ Tells you everything you need to know. Marlene talks the big shit but her actions give it away; the Fireflies have _nothing._ I wouldn't join the Fireflies; not because they're wrong, but because they're weak.
@ryanmontgomery8155
Жыл бұрын
There are 200 at Catalina tho, right?
@CrustlessKing
Жыл бұрын
@@ryanmontgomery8155 Maybe I'm misremembering (because I really do not care about the lore of TLOU2) but wasn't Catalina them rebuilding the Fireflies again from people who had separated ways between the games? My point wasn't that they had a low headcount, just that their decntralized terrorist cell management doesn't seem to be going great even before Joel massacres the hospital. I'd need to re-listen to the audio tape from the college but they've just recently had to bug out to the hospital in Salt Lake City and remapped their whole continental supply chain network right? Plus we've seen that they frequently lose firefights against Fedra and even random scavengers in Boston, and Riley mentioned they were reassigning her (a teenage girl with barely any experience) to Atlanta, which sounds like they must not be doing so hot there. Just in general from the textual evidence, the Fireflies don't seem to be winning without a cure. Given time, even without Joel showing up, Marlene and all the rest (including Abby's Dad) were probably destined to end up dead on their dumb anarchist crusade. I just don't see a good reason for Joel to let this group of bumbling idiots kill his new surogate daughter with no guarantees or reliable assurances of the viability of this cure or at the very least even the bare compensation for his efforts that he was promised. From an outside perspective, it seems like doing the surgery would actually be the "it was all for nothing" scenario. In my opinion, the discourse surrounding Joel's actions should only be about the gray area between selfish and selfless love, not whether he was justified or a bad guy for pulling the trigger.
@S4ns
Жыл бұрын
Knowing where this is all going, I'm glad I didn't waste a single second watching this show.
@spartansquid5931
Жыл бұрын
It went to basically the same ending the first game had, so I don't know why you'd consider watching this a waste. Or do you mean S2 probably sucking means you shouldn't bother just watching S1? In that case I guess nobody should ever play the first Last of Us.
@treg5298
Жыл бұрын
@@spartansquid5931 What are you talking about? There is only one The Last of Us game.
@spartansquid5931
Жыл бұрын
@@treg5298 Thank you for reminding me. I don't know what I was on when I wrote that. Must've had a bad dream.
@xrphoenix7194
Жыл бұрын
My biggest complaint about this episode is they didn't play Home during the car scene. I think it made for one of the best moments in the game and they did it shot for shot but switched the music for no reason
@EquivalentZero
Жыл бұрын
Marlene: "Cover the baby's ears." Henchman: Doesn't cover baby's ears *Loud Gunshot* Baby: *Cries* EFAP: ... EFAP's coverage of this show felt bizarre to watch. We didn't receive nearly the same level of scrutiny or sharpness that we usually see from the crew. Some might say that's because the show is great and didn't have many flaws to talk about, but I disagree. I quite liked some of this show and certainly didn't think it was terrible, but there were multiple areas that could have been tightened and improved, especially when it comes to the overall pacing and limited action sequences. A fair amount of the dialogue (especially with the side characters) was blunt, awkward and clearly meant to inform the audience about what's happening. For example, when Marlene had to reaffirm that she's known Ellie's mom all her life, or when Kathleen's henchman basically looks into the camera and tells the audience that she's a great leader. When David is telling Ellie she is strong, loyal and violent and that he just wants an equal is another moment where I was rolling my eyes - way too on the nose and abrupt for this version of the story. The show is absolutely filled with moments like these, and it suffered from talking down to the audience and explaining things in unnatural, forced conversations as opposed to just showing us the behavior of characters, letting events play out and allowing the audience draw our own conclusions. I could go on and on about all the changes to characters or plot beats that I personally disliked, but it's really the sophomoric dialogue and simplistic, limited action sequences that cement this as just an "okay" adaptation of this story to me. In almost every action sequence, which there are few, they cut away and edit the sequences in ways that indicate that they didn't have a proper action choreographer constructing them. Going through the hospital scene in montage fashion was one of the more blatant aspects of this. By the time Joel gets to the operating room, he's completely spotless - what the hell, show? Bloater rips guy's head off - blur it out. Baby clicker gets Kathleen - cut away quickly. Raider tries rushing Joel in Kansas store head-on immediately after his friend gets shot - Joel shoots him off screen. Joel finishes off raider he was extracting info from - cut to black before impact. All of these moments could have been more impactful and memorable, despite being drastically downscaled.
@streleco
Жыл бұрын
Well, there won't be "Comments Showcase" for this one :-D, but still want to put my 2 cents about something here (and also using this as a kind of thank you all guys for the excellent food for thought that EFAP usually provides, regardless of when I agree with you or not, after all where else would long-ish comments be more appreciated ;) ). I want to share my perspective of someone who hasn't played the game (even if I knew the rough outlines of Joel having to make the choice he did in the end). While I fully understand your relief with the TV show staying very faithful to the game ending, I actually think the ending in itself is flawed and does not make a good job as presenting what happened as a gray area choice for Joel, particularly in the part where he lied to Ellie in the end. I definitely can see how someone invested in the game and worried of whether it won't be skewed even further from that might neglect this (especially in the context of knowing what happens in Last of Us 2), but ironically enough, the part of the show you guys seemed to be the happiest with - the ending - was the most disappointing for me, and I'll try to explain why. I love watching reactions to good shows, and in this case, while everyone's initial reaction to Joel going on his rampage to save Ellie was naturally supportive and understanding to his act, then invariably comes the "Ellie should've been given a choice" argument on which it seems that absolutely everyone seems to be unanimous for, but to me, a lot of key context moments are missed here: 1) Ellie is 14 years old. Fourteen (to quote Joel, something which seemingly only he is very conscious of, as he has brought it forward several times and even Ellie herself - as any 14-year-old :) - doesn't consider). I don't see how even in a post-apocalyptic world a 14-year old should be left to take a life-and-death decision entirely on their own. It is true that her experiences and the world she lives in would have made her much more mature than an average 14-year old of today, but we have always been reminded throughout the season (again, with the show doing a great work with that) of the fact that she's "just a kid", including in the giraffe scene in the last episode and how she just dropped the ladder and was able to forget - if for a moment - all the trauma and thoughts of the coming end of the journey. 2) Directly related to the previous. Ellie undergoing the surgery right then and there, no matter if it went through according to the Fireflies' plan or if she had given consent, is an irreversible decision. Ellie NOT undergoing the procedure is not. Even if Joel takes her agency now, she can still eventually, _when she is trauma free_ (to emphasis), can decide on her own, one way or another. Joel indeed takes away the decision from her at this particular moment, but this IS reversible. Of course, one could argue that given that (what is probably) the mastermind behind the research for the cure is dead, a lot of knowledge was lost, but still, this is hardly the only party in the world doing some research on it. Even in the opening episode of the show it is mentioned that the CDC in Atlanta is still operational and creating drugs. 3) Again related to what I put emphasis on in the previous point, the entire journey for Ellie caused her huge trauma, given what she went through. While in the last episode, given that time has passed since episode 8, we can put her state of mind more to the journey coming to an end, she does literally look shell-shocked, and trauma surely plays a part in it. We can add to that the enormous survivor's guilt that she is feeling, something which was very well shown in the show on several occasions, including in the very last dialogue of the season. How can this be a proper state for a person (even if she wasn't 14) to take such a vital decision? So again, this is something that needs time, and recovery. Humanity is not on the bring of extinction, there is some sort of stability, it's not a "we do this now or civilization dies" situation to justify her having to make a decision now. Directly related to that, what everyone seems to be most against is Joel lying to Ellie, while also most everyone agrees that both of them are intelligent enough, and know each other enough, so that on one hand Ellie knows she is being lied to, while on the other Joel knows he cannot really lie to her in a way that she believes him. Telling the truth sounds all good in theory, but what would it achieve here, in this particular situation? Only traumatize Ellie even more and deepen her survivor's guilt to unimaginable levels. To me Joel's decision to produce this lie is not the easier option, on the contrary, this is his last act of saving her. And he probably knows this is to his own detriment, but just like he wouldn't have cared if he would have died in trying to save her, for him Ellie's safety and well-being are most important. I would argue he fully understands this jeopardizes his father-daughter dynamic with her, but is willing to sacrifice or risk it, as something more important to that is that this new daughter of his is safe - not only physically, but emotionally. Even if this is at his own expense, something which every parent would consider the most natural thing. Would it cause trauma to her when she eventually understands - of course it will. Will it be bigger than the one she would get if she hears the truth now though? Also, when was Ellie not extremely vocal and clear with her opinion when not agreeing with something, especially with Joel? So the fact that she - for literally the first time since we see her - just nods and accepts the current situation should tell us a lot about the state that she is in. It's not just Joel that thinks she might not handle the truth at this very moment, its her too. I'd also get behind Mauler's take on this scene as Ellie just willing to move on, the essence is the same, there's no conflict, no ambiguity here, but the show (staying true to the game) tries in a very heavy-handed way to make it look so artificially. 4) Ellie's attitude and feelings towards Joel also seem not to be considered. Marlene clearly states that the only thing that concerned Ellie was how Joel is when they got separated. Ellie clearly states that "after we are done" she will follow him wherever. She plans/hopes to live through that, which is a bit of a big hole in the grand theory of Marlene and most everyone how "Ellie would have sacrificed herself". Not that it is definitely not something she might have done, but, related to 3), it would have been mostly motivated by survivor's guilt and this is not fair to her. Even if she would have sacrificed herself, would she do that without saying goodbye to Joel, and - most importantly - would she do that leaving her fate (and the fate of humanity) in the hands of the people who at best are going to throw out Joel with just a knife, in effect sentencing even a person with his abilities to death? Not to mention that, if we are realistic (a major plot hole in my opinion that mars a bit overall great quality of the series), there is absolutely no reason for the Fireflies to even keep Joel alive, Marlene has said that she knows what he's capable of, realistically, he would have been killed while still unconscious, as anyway they never planned to let Ellie see him. 5) This is not directly related to Ellie and Joel, but continuing from the previous point - the good will of the Fireflies seems to be kind of taken for granted, when they have been shown - both throughout the season and in this episode to be ruthless (to say the least). Marlene made a promise to her close friend which she in cold blood reneged on. Trying to make her be "suffering" in the last episode by saying it's not easy for her is duplicitous in my view. She knew AT LEAST from the moment she sent Ellie on the journey what the plan is, she didn't seem in any way hesitant or remorseful in episode 1 about her decision to send Ellie west. Even if we cannot claim it for sure, but the backstory of episode 9 and episode 1 can make for a fairly strong argument that she had at least a suspicion that Ellie might be "special" from her birth, and her life being in a way manipulated to take one direction or another. We have confirmation that it was Marlene's choice to put Ellie in with FEDRA, it was Marlene's decision to recruit her best friend Riley to the Fireflies, then to send her away from Ellie and not to allow Ellie to go with her (i.e. in effect, to split them, to not allow someone to whom Ellie can be attached to and trust to be around her). This is all circumstantial, but especially in the context of "Ellie should not have her agency taken away from her" should not be overlooked. Marlene openly states in episode 1 that "they are losing", a potential cure could be a huge advantage for the Fireflies in a power struggle, can we guess if they will just give up on it, so that it is freely distributed and made available should they come across it? Even if so, she clearly said it COULD be a cure. Are we sure that the Fireflies have the best medical minds working for them, even the best facilities? CDC Atlanta and FEDRA won't have better ones? So is it even an extra risk (and a death sentence for Ellie) just for a power grab? (1/2)....
@streleco
Жыл бұрын
....(2/2) 6) I am conscious of the fact, that this is different in the game, so wouldn't belabour this point too much, but in the series' world, you can get infected only through suffering a direct wound, a bite (not through breathing spores). In the show we kind of tend to see the main characters surviving those (even if for the purpose to die more tragically :) ), but actually if we think of it, it would be very rare to get bitten and then not get torn to pieces too (something which again is underscored by Marlene even in the last episode). As such, in the TV series world, an actual vaccine wouldn't even have that big of an impact, as it would be able to save a few fringe cases, rather than the majority. It also would not be able to help in any way people that have already turned. So, at the end of the day we are presented with a prospect of something that COULD be a cure, if the research of one single doctor (it seems), that is part of a rebel (even if the biggest) group is correct and that groups ability to produce said cure is adequate; and if that group doesn't use this knowledge for a power grab; it can actually help a limited amount of people. So are the stakes so high, so as to just categorically sacrifice one's own life? If this could be a vaccine, i.e. something which is preventative, that would have a much bigger impact, but Marlene refers to it as a cure. Also, in the game world, it would admittedly also have a bigger impact (even if only as a cure, though even more if as a vaccine), given that there cordyseps spreads in spores in the air too. To summarize, I am not against the ending being morally ambiguous, I would have loved it if it was really done so, but to me the ambiguity (both in the game and in the show) is artificial the way things are. And this is the main (and perhaps only) complaint for me, as the story as a whole is great, and as mentioned the production value and acting are wonderful. Like the panel, I also think the show should have had more episodes, it's a personal preference but I liked a lot the first half of it, where things were slow (or rather - where more time was taken for things and to make points), to me the last episodes were just rushed, with the exception of Joel's rampage through the hospital, which was masterfully done in the way it was. To me, even with that caveat, the series does great in posing the most important question - it's not about "is humanity worth saving", but rather about "what IS humanity". To me, humanity is a 14-year old kid not being sacrificed without second thought and without her and her guardian figure having consented to it for example. To quote another great show - Arcane - "It's not enough to give people what they need to survive, you have to give them what they need to live". I would argue that humanity in the state that we see it in the series doesn't need a vaccine as it's biggest priority. It needs reasons to feel human again, just like Joel found one in Ellie, and Ellie in Riley, and then in Joel. It doesn't need more Marlene-s. And this is a point that has been greatly interwoven in all the stories up to the very end, but unfortunately is capped with what is just a sloppy decision with regard to storytelling. The fact that it is true to the game doesn't justify it. I really enjoyed that you did this they way you did - with a live watch of each episode, but maybe it also warrants a more "truly-EFAP" style discussion too, as (absolutely understandably given you are giving live reactions here), some very cool details are missed this way, and we have so little shows having those, that its worth discussing them, just as it is worth discussing what could make the end better, or what extra beats or content could have been useful to flesh out the story towards its back-end if they had couple of more episodes to work with.
@dmccaffreydm
Жыл бұрын
Looks like you guys missed Archcast's point on how Marlene knowing why Ellie is immune completely invalidates the whole story., they can recreate the same situation with another baby. Quite a miss, and quite the mistake from the writers trying to 'enhance' the story.
@catsquidcatoverlord9842
Жыл бұрын
Sure sure, try to get a mother to agree to that. Plus, you assume doing the same thing will get the same result and they know exactly how to recreate that scenario. They don't know when she was bitten relative to giving birth, if she actually did nurse her or not. How the hell are they going to recreate that, and that is assuming that the info was even shared by Marlene on the circumstance of her birth with exact details, so working off 3rd hand information. You as someone who watched the show could repeat it, if you could again get someone to agree to certain death and the risk to their child (who they would be also signing up their child to be killed by the doctors too, so better not tell them your plan there either), but someone in the show's world, I doubt it.
@jonathansmithwick5703
Жыл бұрын
Why would the mother have to agree? Why would it be more difficult to infect a woman mid-birth than to transport and kill your one and only test subject?
@catsquidcatoverlord9842
Жыл бұрын
@@jonathansmithwick5703 how many pregnant women do you think the terrorist group the Fireflies have on hand? How many of the Fireflies would be willing to forcefully infect a pregnant women as they are giving birth or just before, killing the women immediately and then the child either immediately or shortly after, for the chance of getting an immune child, and the chance of getting a cure. Add onto that the logistics that they just dont know of, of which how many know the circumstances of Ellies brith, as Marlene didn't even know exactly, for all she knows Ellies mom could have been bit before she went into labour, or she could have full on given birth cut the cord, then was bit and breast fed the baby, from what she could tell. Then you have the question of how many people did Marlene and the one other person with her tell about the circumstances of Ellies birth, and how many of them are even still alive. So to commit this highly immoral act, they are going off what is likely, I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who somewhat knows what happened when they were born, to then decide hey let's kill a pregnant lady in one of the worst ways possible then cut up their baby, trust me it will work. Plus, the Fireflies didn't seem to know what was causing the immunity until Ellie arrived, sure Marlene may have suspected it had something to do with her birth, but they didn't know until she arrived and ran tests, and it's just the doctors hypothesis. So even if let's say they had 100% reliable info and knew exactly how it happened, it still wouldn't impact the story in the show they just found out. If anything it more so supports what Joel is doing as they could make another immune person. (They really couldn't, but if you ignore all the details in the text of the show and just say its repeatable, it still doesn't impact the story)
@nigeltheoutlaw
Жыл бұрын
@@catsquidcatoverlord9842 Why would they care about consent? They were going to ice a little girl without even asking her first, why would they care about anyone else? You seem to forget that the Fireflies are evil.
@catsquidcatoverlord9842
Жыл бұрын
@@nigeltheoutlaw because it is far easier to get a willing participant when you are trying to purposefully recreate something than an unwilling one. Plus I also went into detail of all the problems ignoring the issue of consent as well. Would you like to touch on those? Also they are not all evil, they are still human too and likely have their own moral limits which are a factor whether you like it or not. (Granted again, lots of issues even assuming everyone is willing to participate)
@onabiv
Жыл бұрын
I have some definite disagreements with your portrayal of the final episode. Just because you have the same events and script, doesn't mean it's the same. The tone was very different from the game. Lingering shots of bodies, close up of the doctor, somber music. In the game when he told Ellie that there was other immune, he was telling the truth. In the show, that's a lie. In the show, they inserted all sorts of ambiguity into Joel's actions that didn't exist in the game. In the game, Joel was 100% righteous, full stop. Is it a huge difference? Maybe not. The couple that with the emotional weakening of Joel throughout the season and it leaves the show in a very different place than the game does. Now, get ready for two seasons of The last of Us 2.
@sivad1025
Жыл бұрын
Yup. I'm shocked that they thought this was faithful. Instead of Joel killing competent soldiers trying to hunt him down, he's shooting at guys running away and surrendering (both of which make zero sense in context). I don't necessarily mind more ambiguity cause, let's be real, the game isn't ambiguous at all. But I hate that the filmmakers were telling us what to think
@mrq1
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this Mauler and crew. Please keep making more. I especially love the "comment showcases." I'm too brain tired to say more... but yes, keep going!
@dylanchilders
Жыл бұрын
Im so glad they pointed out the stock sound effect at 38:00 as well 😂 I had a good chuckle at that when I heard it too
@samwallaceart288
Жыл бұрын
Wilhelm's Gate
@chrisb4131
Жыл бұрын
This was personally my favorite episode. All the spots hit perfectly, Joel got to shine as a badass dad protecting his daughter, the whole thing. I think the "You don't understand" line was his way of telling Marlene how much she means to him. How much she impacted his life. And what he will do to make sure she's safe.
@spencer7950
Жыл бұрын
Joel absolutely did the right thing.
@denkerbosu3551
Жыл бұрын
In this series I would put that into question: How worthy is saving _this_ Ellie?
@aaronmueller1560
Жыл бұрын
@@denkerbosu3551what do you mean? This Ellie isn’t as worth saving as game Ellie? What led you to that conclusion
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
With the lack of infected since episode 5, yes. Joel is 100% right.
@spencer7950
Жыл бұрын
@Denker Bosu extremely worthy.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
@@spencer7950 If they really wanted to make it morally ambiguous or make Joel downright a villain, they should have shown more infected swarming but since they spent too much time to pointless side characters who will die in that episode anyway while showing no infected since ep5, why bother making a vaccine for something that’s not that important?
@psevdhome
Жыл бұрын
I can't wait to see which normal actress who's not a body builder they will get to play Abby, since her level of muscle is so obviously something a normal woman can achieve.
@xentiment6581
Жыл бұрын
Especially in apocalypse enviroment where access to training and nutrition is incredibly scarce
@JoMiMo555
Жыл бұрын
For sure. She'd have to be pulling a David to keep those weight gains up. Just one more reason to despise her.
@psevdhome
Жыл бұрын
@@xentiment6581 Stop eating all the burritos Abby, I'm starving!
@KeiFresh
Жыл бұрын
Muscular women exist…
@KeiFresh
Жыл бұрын
@@xentiment6581 she’s from a community that has a gym, farms and livestock, it’s not unrealistic that she’s be buff from her environment
@chathamreynolds-moore7377
Жыл бұрын
Find it funny how every actor they brought back from the original game ended up dead in the show. Not saying there's some kind of deeper meaning behind that, just find it kinda funny.
@VoytekPavlik
Жыл бұрын
Except Abby's voice actress
@chathamreynolds-moore7377
Жыл бұрын
@VoytekPavlik that's true but she also played one of the other nurses/doctors in the operating room in the first game as well so that was a nice touch.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
Abby is the only one who survived. That said a lot about Neil Druckmann’s agenda.
@chathamreynolds-moore7377
Жыл бұрын
@nont18411 perhaps but like I said she also played that same nurse/doctor/surgeon in the original.
@AndyJP
Жыл бұрын
I think that a popular game that is already very cinematic like this one should be really easy to adapt. Games such as this one, the Uncharted series, the new Tomb Raiders, etc are basically pre-packaged for Hollywood if only they'd trust the source material. These kinds of adaptations could be the next hollywood trend.
@qadrej
Жыл бұрын
A simple biopsy would allow them to do this without killing her. Then you would be able to replicate. Smh
@cynicalmemester1694
Жыл бұрын
The Fireflies were incredibly incompetent.
@nont18411
Жыл бұрын
@@cynicalmemester1694 Wait. Wasn’t the Zebraman supposed to be the best doctor on the planet?
@cynicalmemester1694
Жыл бұрын
@@nont18411 Apparently zebraman is such a genius doctor that he doesn't know how to conduct a biopsy.
@agustinfandino8950
Жыл бұрын
Great coverage, for future EFAP TV, I would love if you guys could continue the batwoman saga
@KevinM491
Жыл бұрын
thank god i dont have to listen to Fringy gush about landscape shots anymore.
@zahubshahid7944
Жыл бұрын
What's wrong with Fringy praising the landscape shots?
@TheBloopers30
Жыл бұрын
@@zahubshahid7944 Kevin hates nature
@TrashPandalorian
Жыл бұрын
I watched this show with my wife who’s not a gamer and never heard of the games before the show. We loved it! I would also like to add, I’ve been arguing with people on Twitter since the finale ended about Joel being right. The arguments are pretty shite. I’m not a KZitemr but might make a video validating his decision just to vent my frustrations lol. Love the coverage EFAP!
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
Excellent point near the end about the show not getting enough time with Joel and Ellie as opposed to the game. As a show watcher only, this killed the show for me. It took it from an 8 to a 5-6 for me because I can recognize just how much good is here, yet the connection with the two main characters isn't strong enough. I needed more time, just small conversations ect... it didn't feel like I went on months of an adventure with them. Big shame I loved a lot about the series.
@lustrazor44
Жыл бұрын
It’s supposed to be a full year.
@ChrisAFigaro
Жыл бұрын
Yh, the viewers literally brought that complaint up already during the season. But it didn't matter then.
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisAFigaro Hey Chris, I could be way off mark with this but it feels like people who have played the game (most of them commenting) can't detach enough to see this with clarity. It seems so obvious to me. My guess would be If you have played the games you don't look into the depth of the characters presented because you already know the depth between them due to the game? What do you think?
@LawlTwins
Жыл бұрын
@@lustrazor44 That's just utterly terrible but thanks for letting me know. Funnily enough, pacing is my #2 biggest issue with the show. It's so amateur. All the best mate.
@WYFT42
Жыл бұрын
Well well here we are at the end. EFAP you guys did a great! job Breaking down the shows pros and cons of the series. On this last episode I do kind of have a problem with Marlene finding Ellie mom bit and when Ellies mom(Ashley Johnson) tells Marlene "she was born be for the bite" giving off clear signs though that she lying and Ellie not turning. Knowing this info what does Marlene do, she gives Ellie to FEDRA AND DOES NOTHING, Until the events with Riley proving that Ellie was immune to the cordyceps. She had 10 years+ to do something with the info as f-up as is you could try and replicate the method or something be for we get to this state, To me the last episode make Marlene responsible for the events of the for basically the first season( Be side of the out break of course ) its her fault for not keeping her promise to keep Ellie safe.
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