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@paulinaskierka1742
Жыл бұрын
I've listen most of your podcast on Spotify, thank you so much for your wonderful work and resilience! I can't have enough words to say how much you mean to me. You help me when I didn't know what to do, what to think. You where like a lighthouse to help me to stay on my course. Please keep going and doing amazing work.
@kimberleyfloyd8179
Жыл бұрын
I am not affected directly by any of these topics, but I find them extremely fascinating. I find you bring so many interesting guests on your show. I find your approach to gender very nuanced. Aaron Kimberley, you are very cool. I am the exact same age, Canadian, and I also went to art school. So I could relate to a lot you were discussing even though my life experience is very different. I found the story very moving, I cried a bit too. Even the part as a little kid where you drew the profile instead of the face head on. Clearly, you were advanced in terms of expressing your perception. I had a kindergarten teacher tell my mom I was very artistic. Part of me likes that, but the other part of me feels like though I know it to be true, it solidified my ideas as a creative person, perhaps too early. Maybe it's best not to say too much and let kids be creative without branding them as such. Not sure! Other thought I had that is that when kids are little, maybe they need black and white thinking to develop but as we get older, we need to learn how to see how nuanced the world actually is. So my trouble with gender ideology isn't so much with the people themselves but rather the limiting ideas surrounding something that seems really like a cult. I can't be all in because I see that it's way more complex.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
Really appreciate Aarons comments around conceptual catagory errors which can occur in children based on the cultural, and family environmental cues the child receives clashing with their own interests and self perception. Another form of this also occurs for children raised in environments where they have been exposed to adult sexual situations via pornography exposure or sexual exploitation or neglect which can lead to a child not understanding age or familial sexual boundaries or of their own sexual boundaries.
@NickyHallows
Жыл бұрын
I have been grappling for a few years with what to think about the transgender issue and concluded fairly early on that the answer wasn’t either side of the debate but couldnt articulate exactly what I felt and couldn’t find anyone else who was. That was until I stumbled across gender a wider lens podcast. Your evidence based non judgemental approach is such a relief to find. Came onto KZitem to leave this comment and will be back to the podcasts now but I can’t thank you both enough.
@ajn2370
22 күн бұрын
This is one of the most interesting episodes so far
@Poecilia1963
Жыл бұрын
I have watched many of Aaron's podcasts and always appreciate his thoughtfulness, wisdom & insight, but I didn't know the full details of his own story, and I appreciate him sharing it here.
@mariahburtonnelson5924
Жыл бұрын
Another excellent episode. You're such good listeners, and you have such interesting guests! Moved over here from the audio podcast to see Aaron's art. (And because you invited us to, Stella and Sasha. :-)) Intriguing! Even tho I've been openly lesbian since 1975, I didn't know that there were butch lesbians as late as the 90s or so who used male pronouns and names. I knew butch/femme made a resurgence but mostly, in my mind, I consigned those roles to the 50s. For my generation (born 1956) we experienced coming out -- as lesbians and feminists, simultaneously -- as the freedom to ignore all gender roles and just be ourselves. At least, in my circles, we did. Most of my friends would call ourselves neither feminine nor masculine. Just human. Beyond roles - though not beyond categories. The categories were female and lesbian. Anyway, thought-provoking episode as usual. Thank you!
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Welcome! We're so glad you came to visit us here! Thanks for being a loyal listener and, now, viewer!
@mariahburtonnelson5924
Жыл бұрын
You two are the best. A wider lens indeed. I always learn something, and you make the whole journey not only intriguing but downright fun.@@widerlenspod
@Asptuber
Жыл бұрын
"Beyond roles - though not beyond categories." This is such a good way to put it.
@mariahburtonnelson5924
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! :-) @@Asptuber
@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs
9 ай бұрын
"Just human. Beyond roles - though not beyond categories." @@Asptuber Thanks for highlighting that quote. I suggest that adding the two words before it, could make it even more powerful in some contexts. Maria Burton Nelson, I appreciate your entire comment. I also want to add a remark: I would not describe "being pregnant and giving birth" as a róle that a woman plays. I'm searching for the right word, but for now I tend to describe "being pregnant and giving birth" as a rather essential capácity of women.
@e_i_e_i_bro
Жыл бұрын
I didn't even realize you all had a yt channel. Been listening for months now. I had to come check out Aaron's art. Gorgeous!
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for listening AND watching!
@popselfevaluation7913
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating thank you . Sorry if I missed the relevant part but I didn’t hear a clear description of the biological basis of the intersex condition. I respect that maybe because Aaron doesn’t feel comfortable exploring it, but it seems important to understand because it must surely have had an impact on his story. He’s described as being F to M but in that case what is the intersex condition that would create ovotestes without a Y chromosome or part of one? If there’s a Y or part of one, then even if the developmental pathway was interrupted, wasn’t Aaron arguably always male ? I’m not clear why Aaron is described as F to M (ie biological rather than the transition just being couched in gender terms)
@azsunburns
Жыл бұрын
Bingo
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
My assumption was that he was externally presenting as a girl, which is why he was raised as one, hence the narrative choices here. I confess I'm not well versed in DSDs - is it right that they (or some of them) can be categorised as "male plus more stuff going on" and "female plus more stuff going on" or is that the wrong way to think about it?
@popselfevaluation7913
Жыл бұрын
@@meretriciousinsolent I also assumed Aaron is genetically male but raised as a girl. If that’s right surely it may be very important to his experience of dysphoria that every cell in his brain and body carries the Y chromosome or part of it? It’s obviously terribly complex psychologically if his body didn’t develop external male features so he was raised as a girl , but I would have thought that acknowledging the male genetic component would help resolve things
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
@@meretriciousinsolent sort of. The key element in what type of DSD one may be born with is the presence of an active SRY gene. There is also chromosomal mosaicism. There is a lot of great videos explaining different DSDs/intersex conditions on a yt channel called The Paradox Institute that is very informative re:these conditions.
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Aaron's DSD is known as ovotesticular disorder. It can affect both males and females. Aaron is genetically female with a female phenotype, but one ovary contained testicular tissue which caused his body to produce extra testosterone and male features. You can read more about it here and the different ways it presents in both males and females: www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/ovotestis
@StormBringer5
Жыл бұрын
To the point about gender nonconformity in lower socioeconomic classes vs higher classes-there’s been research that shows 1st world countries have greater gender conformity than 3rd world countries. This comes down to people in 1st world countries having more time and money to spend on grooming themselves to attract a mate-therefore they have more time to engage in activities that heighten gender cues: men working out to accentuate muscles, women manicuring their brows and wearing makeup, etc. I think Sasha’s point about this being flipped on its head is that we’re seeing more queer theory taught in higher education. So we’re also seeing people in these higher socioeconomic circles, who were raised to care about gender cues, consciously reject this. Whereas in lower socioeconomic circles, people just… don’t care as much about gender signifiers and gender roles. They have more important things to worry about.
@bilong92
Жыл бұрын
I love the podcast and I hate to complain but I did find this one hard to listen to on my phone without headphones on a high setting, and even then it seems muffled, just thought I'd mention it if it's a tech issue that's easily solved. Thanks!
@fritharobinson9527
Жыл бұрын
I had the same issue. I had to scroll back a few times to hear everything in this fascinating episode.
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your patience. We have had some tech issues with our platform. We are getting them resolved and we hope this is much less distracting in the future.
@bilong92
Жыл бұрын
@@widerlenspod thanks for all your important work!
@ESkengman
Жыл бұрын
I LOVE your vids - amazing content and insights. But, Audio from Sasha is really poor. No microphone, so I really struggle to follow the conversation as I'm hard of hearing.
@joeewell4846
7 ай бұрын
You might explore the relationship between intersex conditions and a syndrome comprised of dyslexia, epilepsy, autism, stuttering, among others.
@anarchist_parable
11 ай бұрын
Firstly, love you guys I've been listening the whole time. I do like the YT format because it allows us as listeners to ask questions in real time and to really have conversation with one another. That said I want to pose the question to the group of why gender dysphoria is t treated as being a form of dysmorphia? I think we're really doing people a disservice by treating this discomfort with the body as more valid than all others.
@bee-eu6cg
Жыл бұрын
Ive realised that there is a lot of shaming going on. Especially by adults. Slowly realising this. Especially if adults have a particular belief system. Thats why peter s street epistemology is fascinating to watch.
@AndyJarman
Жыл бұрын
Transing the gay away?
@bee-eu6cg
Жыл бұрын
I think so . Its a mixed bag. Some gays and lesbians have been caught up in this but also girls with sexual trauma. Dsd is different though. But how bad did is .
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
I think it depends who you speak to. Some believe gender dysphoria explains all, like it's a missing piece. It's a tempting narrative. Humans aren't simple but people want simple solutions to the lifelong condition of being human.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
@@meretriciousinsolent yup. How the world so dearly loves a cage.
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
What I would love to know is this: if possessing masculine biology without knowing it can somehow influence self perception to align with that physical fact... how is it happening??
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
Yes! This element would be great to understand better. Like most it seems to be a combination of nature plus nurture rather than one or the other.
@josephsdimension
10 ай бұрын
Are you opposed to the idea that it could have been due to neurology? Prenatal T exposure? What I don’t understand is why people are unwilling to accept there could be a neurological condition going on here? And NO I am not saying “male brain in female brain” hypothesis. I’m suggesting that this sense of identity might have a biological root and it’s not only present in intersex people.
@hilcro1
Жыл бұрын
My take away from this is the importance of remembering that us humans are not all knowing and the best care i feel is often given when people have the knowledge that there is nothing un natural in nature just gaps in our understanding..... i think thats why i get so much from this podcast because stella and sasha always seem to approach the converstions in a effort to fill in some gaps.
@shadow.banned
Жыл бұрын
Sucks his mic doesn't seem to be working on this video. Wrong settings I imagine.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
56:13 Aarons answer to this question is VERY important and offers a great deal of insight into one of the reasons the numbers of trans identifying people has increased so significantly over the past 15 -20 years.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
So interesring that Aarons Aunt also was born with an intersex condition. I hope more information regarding the experience the Aunt had can be explored by Aaron and his family.
@lizlanman47
Жыл бұрын
Sound is not great on sasha. Thx
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
Weird - no issue here? I have a partial hearing loss too. However my phone is knackered so maybe I just whack everything up loud. That has been suggested to me before in my household 😆
@WillyOrca
Жыл бұрын
Perhaps narrow the lens just a teensy bit, and you'll realize that blurry purple blotch is actually composed of 2 smaller clearly defined blue and pink dots
@RobAherne1
Жыл бұрын
Great podcast but you guys could really do with some better mics
@AndyJarman
Жыл бұрын
Stella, Sasha, you forgot to put Aaron's artwork up!
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
It flashed up briefly while he was talking in place of his face
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Correct, it comes up when he is talking about it. Also, check the notes for a link to the artwork.
@juliantn
Жыл бұрын
I'm wondering whether the class "flip" from working class gender "nonconformity" being more common to upper class is actually a matter of upper class being more feminine and lower class being more masculine.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
What signals to you the upper classes being more "feminine" and the working classes being more "masculine" ?
@pathacker4963
Жыл бұрын
How difficult are chromosomal tests? Why aren’t they done at birth?
@pennysoppas759
Жыл бұрын
40:11
@pathacker4963
Жыл бұрын
@@pennysoppas759ty
@pennysoppas759
Жыл бұрын
40:36 chromosome tests need a large vial of blood. So they are very difficult to do on newborns. A test might be done if a girl baby had a very large clitoris or other reason to suspect a masculinization condition.
@baconsarny-geddon8298
Жыл бұрын
Right at the end, Aaron talks about avoiding discussion of intersex conditions, out of a desire to NOT add to the constant conflation of transgenderism, with intersex conditions (a goal I appreciate)... ...But, by having "intersex" in the episode title, then just having a trans person, largely just discussing their experience of being trans, with minimal mention of the intersex diagnosis, and of the relation between that, and Identifying as "trans", I think this podcast (presumably accidentally) does the opposite, and PROMOTES that popular conflation of "intersex" and "trans" as somehow being inherently related, and almost the same thing. I don't want to be rude or presumptious, but it may be worth explicitly discussing that Aaron's experience is not typical, NEITHER as an ftm trans person (who typically don't have intersex conditions), OR as someone with an intersex condition (who typically don't ID as "trans", or make effort to "transition" to presenting as the opposite sex).
@AndyJarman
Жыл бұрын
Aaron appears to have come from a very conservative society.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
Rural areas tend to be more socially conservative but in Canada, even the most conservative areas are still quite liberal. They also tend to treat people based on character and work ethic rather than appearance or sexual orientation.
@tamarpeleg7452
Жыл бұрын
It looks as though Aaron used medication to restore his innate biological condition as an intersex person. I think that taking the opposite sex hormones creates exactly this: it creates an intersex condition. It changes the individual’s biology quite profoundly, and the outcome is a (medically induced) different sex development (DSD). Though this is a drug-dependent condition, it is nonetheless real. So when we explain to a gender-questioning teen what should be their expectations from this treatment, I think it would be quite accurate to describe it that way.
@widerlenspod
Жыл бұрын
Such an interesting observation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with us!
@Artieful
Жыл бұрын
Thats kind of crazy that Aaron went to a lesbian bar and still felt weird about them calling him female.
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
How come?
@Artieful
Жыл бұрын
Hey @@Gingerblaze I honestly don't know I just feel like it didn't come across as his character. He was very well spoken in that interview with a good mind to think about teaching about his culture more than someone like mine would.
@rubytimms3932
11 ай бұрын
If you’re talking about “intersex” children, maybe you should explain what that is and how prevalent it is. A very small percentage of babies are born with ambiguous genitalia and/or other internal mixture of male/female organs. It is a medical anomaly. Doctors then are faced with having to decide which is the dominant feature. They have been dealing with this for many many years. I see no reason why Intersex has become part of the LGB alphabet, because it is a medical issue, not a gay issue. Nor a trans issue.
@widerlenspod
11 ай бұрын
You should take a listen to the episode, as you would probably find it very interesting to hear Aaron's personal story. And, also to hear how much he agrees with you.
@grothd09
Жыл бұрын
Oh boy…why are we relying on an extremely mentally unwell woman to discuss these issues…so many better voices that don’t speak out of both ends…
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
Sorry, what?
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
Aaron was born with an intersex condition and has been working to bring more understanding around these issues. Who would you reccomend to speak on these issues?
@robertmarshall2502
Жыл бұрын
Do you have a specific criticism of anything said?
@baconsarny-geddon8298
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I kinda agree. This person's EXTREMELY rare experience only muddies waters, especially in the way it's presentee here. The ideology of transgenderism CONSTANTLY tries to leverage the essentially-unrelated topic of intersex conditions, to confuse the public into conflating evidence-free "transgender" self-ID (involving ZERO evidence-based criteria, and almost always people who are 100% physiologically typical members of their biologcal sex), with evidence-based "intersex conditions" (diagnosed ENTIRELY by evidence-based criteria, by people who rarely "self-ID" outside their own sex). The umbrella-term of "intersex conditions" has been expanded, for purely ideological reasons, to the point of being virtually meaningless- I've seen it defined as "having ANY trait indicative of the opposite sex", with people (typically people trying to self-ID out of their biologcal sex) claiming that being a short male makes them "intersex" (because women have lower average height than men), or girls claiming that having a-cup breasts makes them "Intersex", or obese males claiming their "man-boobs" make them "intersex". The term "intersex" is being expanded, to try to side-step the 100% absence of empirical evidence for the idea of sex-independent "gender", and "transgenderism"; It's a way for trans-activists to promote two contradictary claims, simultaneously- (1) that "trans" self-ID is valid. Which requires "being trans" to have NO basis in empirical evidence, whatsoever... But at the same time (2) "trans" ID is super-duper -legit and evidence-based, coz any specific trans person you can name is """"intersex""" (as long as you use OUR expanded defintion of "intersex", which we've made so vague that literally ANYONE can find SOME reason to label themselves"Intersex", if you use THIS defintion...) The vast majority of people with LEGITIMATE intersex conditions don't try to self-ID outside their sex (or claim to be the opposite "gender"; however you want to phrase it). This individual (assuming they're being honest and accurate about their medical issues, which I'm happy to go with. But many people DO lie/mis-represent this stuff, for ideological reasons) is a very rare example of what trans-activists try to imply is the norm- Someone with a real, evidence-based intersex condition, who ALSO fits the defintion of "trans", and made effort to "transition" out of their (phenotypic) biologcal sex. By presenting someone like this, WITHOUT the context that very few (legitimately) intersex people are trans, or any discussion of the expansion/mis-representation of the term "intersex", or talking about the dishonest way trans-activists try to leverage the medical issues of people with intersex conditions, this podcast is (whether accidentally, or deliberately) helping those trans-activists, with their goal of conflating the real MEDICAL issue of EVIDENCE-BASED intersex conditions, with the SOCIAL trend of 100% EVIDENCE-FREE "transgender" self-ID... [It's like if you have a podcast about the narratives that people with schizophrenia believe. And then you bring on a guest who GENUINELY DID have the C.I.A conduct some elaborate plot, to broadcast secret messages into their fillings.... ...or if you have a podcast about the dellusions that drug addicts get during withdrawal. And you choose to bring on a guest who GENUINELY DID have some super-rare, exotic parasite, resulting in him legitimately having bugs under his skin... When a certain group repeatedly presents a narrative that is ALMOST ALWAYS false, but then you bring out a super-rare example of the times that narrative ISN'T false, but neglect to give the context that "This is the super-rare exception; It is NOT the norm. 99% of the times you'll hear someone talking about this scenario, they'll be either lying or mistaken...", you're being dishonest, and promoting a false narrative.]
@robertmarshall2502
Жыл бұрын
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 I think you made some very good points and I completely agree with the conflation of contradictory claims by trans activists and their objective in doing so. The only things I'd say is: a) If I'm not misremembering they have had someone with DSD conditions expressing the ideas you talk about. Hopefully they'll invite more ppl like this but I think by nature they tend to want to integrate and not be defined by their condition. b) Hopefully Sasha and Stella will discuss this when they do their episode summarizing recent guests. Maybe we should give them that chance first. I was a little disappointed with the guest as I didn't think much was added to the discussion and I don't like the use of "intersex" for some of the reasons you've outlined. But I think it's not a simple choice because if they don't show themselves open to talk to different ppl then they stray dangerously close to deplatforming/no platforming and not the idea of presenting all the available evidence which reinforces their integrity and credibility. When this person is in theory the best example of the idea being pushed but ultimately their experience is nothing like "gender euphoria" and they aren't really a part of the modern trans movement then you could see it as weakening the trans activist argument.
@azsunburns
Жыл бұрын
While I feel for the rare cases of DSD, that's not what we are seeing in the vast majority of trans cases. What we are seeing is unresolved trauma, mental illness, porn, fetish, casual sex culture wrapped in $$$.
@sharonw2008
Жыл бұрын
Mostly autogynephillia.
@meretriciousinsolent
Жыл бұрын
Agree, but trans activists keep trying to wang an arm around people with DSDs (and endometriosis even!) and say they're part of their gang, and try and use it as a gotcha. Important to hear from someone who has direct experience to explore why this isn't so.
@azsunburns
Жыл бұрын
@@sharonw2008 that too, and social pressure. That IS happening among the kids
@Gingerblaze
Жыл бұрын
@@sharonw2008 AGP makes up the highest percentage of trans identifying people globally. HSTP make up a smaller percentage overall, except in regions and communities which are culturally homophobic or where homosexuality is illegal. They are not mutually exclusive forms of trans ideation either, contrary to popular belief. Autoandrophilia exsists in trans identifying females as well but is less studied or even acknowledged.
@robertmarshall2502
Жыл бұрын
@@GingerblazeIs there a place you get your modern figures/percentages from? (As in I would be interested not that I doubt you) It seems like a difficult thing to quantify. I feel like historically third gender societies are largely about giving men loopholes in societies that control sex and marriage heavily. The newer Western version seems like its own kind of animal in a way.
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