EDIT: Looking for input on the title! Should I change it back to "Fandom Mandela Effect: The Nature of Determination and Red SOULs" or perhaps try "Red SOULs, Determination, and the Fandom Mandela Effect"? Thank you SO MUCH for 10k subs, and to everyone who has supported the sewer fundraiser. We're still dealing with issues (Attorney General couldn't help), so I'll include a link to that along w/ other cool stuff. Fundraiser for Sewer (now with Updates): gofund.me/6989ad02 | My Undertale webcomic, Inverted Fate: invertedfate.com/chapters | For my Deltarune analyses: kzitem.info/news/bejne/rKubrpt3k5WHY2U Analysis Content: kzitem.info/news/bejne/lYycrpx4oWOUa5g My Patreon: patreon.com/dorked My Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/invertedfate
@Pyracyntrix
2 жыл бұрын
the idea that the red soul is the power of "love" is an anime moment
@alexyordanov6250
2 жыл бұрын
Did you know that in the secret lab was said that the one who posses the soul of determenation (Frisk) was a legendery godlike being . Monsters have the same legend , but there is a little bit diffrent . That`s actually from where the symbol of the Dreemer family comes from . In my personal theory , here`s how the humans in Undertale work . There are humans with regular souls like the regular monsters . There are humans with special gifted souls witch posses incredable abillities like save,reset and loading , which are equal to the boss monsters souls . And there is one godlike human who posses the soul of determanation . There are needed 1000 regular human souls to mach the power of boss monster soul . And there are needed 1000 regular monster souls to mach the power of gifted human soul .
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@alexyordanov6250 It's never stated that a "soul of determination" belongs to a legendary being. All human souls possess determination. Alphys worked with the six human souls. It had nothing to do with Frisk.
@alexyordanov6250
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked NO !!! That`s my statement . All the gifted souls have determenation . It`s just that there is a special soul witch control the determenation itself . Another evidence why frisk is special is that Flowey even aknolage that Frisk isn`t like the other six humans who fell in to the underground or anything he has seen before . The Asriel fight also confirms it .
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@alexyordanov6250 Asriel never met the other humans, though. He was given consciousness via the determination extracted from their souls after they died. He compared Frisk/Chara to his own determination. Remember, it has been a long time since a human fell- long enough that adult monsters like QC and others cannot recognize a human on sight, Undyne has to ask for confirmation that Frisk is a human, and other factors. Toriel has dialogue if you reset in the ruins that basically says every human she meets feels familiar- suggesting the other humans had the power. I go over all this in the video.
@evilbird4012
2 жыл бұрын
Obviously, the Red Soul’s trait is Ball Game
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
We should all strive to be Ball Game.
@flamboyant_wolf
2 жыл бұрын
duh
@indie_gamer7
2 жыл бұрын
The power of ball game shines whitin you.
@Unoriginality_Incarnate_stupid
2 жыл бұрын
Frisk is fucking balling!?
@orangeskarmory
2 жыл бұрын
Try as you might, you continue to be yourself.
@aghitsaplane4262
2 жыл бұрын
The fact that other monsters can "force" a soul trait onto frisk during battle is still one of the most interesting things to me It doesn't affect your DT/LOVE in any way but the colour changes completely
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
I like to think it's a part of monster magic- that they can force certain movement types on their target. Some of them tie into environmental conditions, like how purple represents being trapped in Muffet's web.
@Grandmother628
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Maybe the red SOUL is just a representation of player stuff we control Frisk Kris and we name and talk to Chara which all sound like big ties to me.
@Loanboi598
Жыл бұрын
maybe they don't exactly force it, but it's the own SOUL adapting to their magic attacks
@Loanboi598
Жыл бұрын
(the blue soul thing sans and papyrus does is an exception tho)
@Rocket_Gunner7414
11 ай бұрын
@@Dorkedalso, in one of papyruse's And undyne's phone calls she literally says she turns hearts green, in hotland by one of the elevators.
@energypinecat4560
2 жыл бұрын
Toby Fox: I'm gonna put so much important lore in *Ball Game*
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Toby Fox is a master at 4D chess. Or 4D ballgames.
@張謙-n3l
2 жыл бұрын
The greater mystery is hidden in a rarely appeared door and some rarely appeared characters
@gristen
2 жыл бұрын
ball game has been haunting me for years dude. what does it all mean
@張謙-n3l
2 жыл бұрын
@@gristen everything related to ball game is just guess, but since those colors are seldomly uses and can perfectly match to the color of the human SOULs, I don't think the colors are just randomly picked
@gristen
2 жыл бұрын
@@張謙-n3l oh its definitely intentional. but i still cant figure out what the red flag means...🚩😭
@CuteShutterBug06
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if fanworks have managed to help influence this, particularly Glitchtale. Personally, I think the Red soul's trait would probably be some combination of all the other traits, or staying true to yourself. Anyway, I really liked this one, it'll probably help clean up a few misunderstandings. Great work on this one!
@CuteShutterBug06
2 жыл бұрын
Here's a fun fact: Ironically, Determination in red has appeared more in Inverted Fate than the actual game.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
And that is 100% because of the fandom mandela effect, haha. Though in the Ruins, Flowey was trying to connect Frisk to Chara, who also had a red soul, and in battles, red looks better as an accent color. Part 50 was Cake's decision, tho. I woulda had no color accent, but eh.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Oh, I'm certain fanworks are a contributing factor. Not a bad thing, but it's easy for fanworks to blur the line, like with what happened around Gaster.
@CuteShutterBug06
2 жыл бұрын
I actually didn't know about DT not being in red text in UT until someone told me. It's actually a Mandela effect.
@elizabeth_x51
2 жыл бұрын
It's also worth noting that the other humans had a much rougher journey than Frisk, considering that Asgore wanted to kill them (and we know he can dodge and stuff). While Frisk was the only one that fought photoshop Flowey and Asriel, they literally couldn't die against the former (and their friendships and growth underground contributed to their refusal in the Asriel fight)
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think it's more meaningful for Frisk's friendships and journey to contribute to the whole refusal moment. Plus, Asgore is way more worn down by the time Frisk arrives and is trying to put off the fight. I think he legit just wanted them to finish him.
@koumei_mei
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I don't think Asgore dodged previous humans' attacks, let alone actually wanted to fight them. He doesn't dodge at all against Frisk, he clearly doesn't want to fight them, and to me, this isn't at all because of how long it has been since a human fell down. Either way though, the six humans did have a much more difficult journey compared to Frisk.
@elizabeth_x51
2 жыл бұрын
Asgore probably did fight harder against the other humans (he swore to kill them, he was FURIOUS after Asriel and Chara died), but the regret of doing that (plus the fact that Frisk is the 7th SOUL and he'd have to kill humanity after them) is probably why he didn't want to fight them
@Nai-qk4vp
2 жыл бұрын
"Wanted to kill.them" [citation needed] Actual quote in game "I never wanted.to hurt anyone, I jus wanted everyone to have hope"
@wispsprojects1120
2 жыл бұрын
Since monsters are weak against violent thoughts, maybe LOVE works the opposite way for them, making them weaker. Maybe with every child killed, Asgore grew weaker as his LOVE increased.
@youtuberjestforfun9074
7 ай бұрын
I kind of had the idea that red wasn't determination because perseverance has the same meaning as determination when it comes to the words.
@lgam3r920
2 жыл бұрын
It's implied the previous human souls had the power even before Flowey, it's possible that the color mean nothing in regard to it, after all we both know that of the 6 souls wanted it, they could easily stop anyone else from resetting, they did so with Flowey, they could as well with Frisk, they don't do so because they actually gave up. There are some unused echo flowers text that suggest at least one of the human souls wanted everyone to be happy, but in the end gave up, and possibly didn't bother to reset.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, there's so many ways to interpret the humans' motivations. Some might have even given their souls willingly since the only alternative was killing Asgore to go home.
@someoneintheinternet757
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly my personal opinion is that the red soul represents passion, a pretty descent amount of cases where the red text were highlighted had something to do with someone's passion about something (from what I recall) It also works with any of the routes: You had a passion for befriending others and kept going through the pacifist route You had a passion to protect or kill others in neutral And you had enough passion towards wanting to see what would happen at the end of pacifist, that it, along with your determination, kept you going. Along with that, sure this may be dumb, but "good" passion is usually associated with warmth, and red is a warm colour, if we're going with associations, I can also add that "passion" has synonyms with multiple meanings, some bad, some good, some neutral, which also reminds me of the routes-
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Passion is a cool interpretation, too! Definitely has room for multiple morality readings, too. c: Well put.
@MadelineTheUndertaleVideogame
2 жыл бұрын
After thinking about it for some time, i'm inclined to believe that the red soul only means direct control from the player Which would be why when kris removes it they can move freely by themselves? Idk, but tbh it makes more sense than it being determination
@WhoStoleKirya73
2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the seven soul traits: perseverance, integrity, patience, kindness, justice, bravery and being possessed by some random eldritch god thing
@amphioxusanniversary
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but unironically XD
@sansgirlfriend
Жыл бұрын
@@WhoStoleKirya73 that wouldnt make it a soul trait then, would it?? it'd be the symbol of a soul being controlled by someone else
@neutralamity
Жыл бұрын
@@WhoStoleKirya73 well white souls are monster souls so they don't always represent a trait.
@DavidSartor0
Жыл бұрын
The first fallen human's Soul was red.
@Greatwolfpearl123
2 жыл бұрын
Your videos are always so good! Can’t wait for the next one!
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! :) I have lots of ideas (plus I gotta get more IF music uploaded, haha). Just a matter of time, tbh.
@elizabeth_x51
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked I still think mus_monster with time signatures would be great fgnldg, it doesn't need spoilery visuals
@cyberbirdboi7054
2 жыл бұрын
I've never even questioned wither the red saw didn't mean determination, really surprising to see how many points there is that can actually contradict that idea.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
I think a lot of people just roll w/ it because of years of fandom content, which is fine, but I think it's neat to look at what's in the actual game.
@cyberbirdboi7054
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Honestly that makes sense, although it is still weird to think that it was never really officialy stated that the red soul represents determination.
@evergreenzsavage2843
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve thought of the red soul being something more than determination for some time, but if you try to pin another trait on it, there’s just so many different options you could choose. Personally, I like to think of the red soul as being determination because it could simply have the most. I agree with the determination as something every human and monster could have, but I just like to think of the red soul as somebody who had so much determination to do what they desired that it kind of condensed into a trait. I know that’s just a simple way of looking at it, but it’s just how I prefer to see it. Of course, I still like all the other theories I see though!
@queenofuganda7718
2 жыл бұрын
I know I'm late to say this (and maybe someone said it already), but maybe the red trait is "Player" or "Protagonist"? The player has the ability to posses all of the Soul traits as different players have different play styles. And why they are seen as so powerful (resetting time and coming back after dead) is because they are the protagonist/player. But this just my interpretation.
@rebekahbernal5850
2 жыл бұрын
Ah! I just love your theories!! It's a lot of fun just to think about the lore of Undertale and Deltarune. To add a little piece of evidence to your theory, Flowey is actually a different color than the other golden flowers (I remember reading this from another fan theorist, but I can't remember the source). His yellow is more like the yellow text Alphys uses in her logs to describe 'Determination'. Back when I had heard this theory about the true color of determination from another blog, it was hard to believe at first. Determination being red is so fixed within fanon, it seemed pretty clear-cut. Plus, it just seemed so unheard of for any other human to be able to wield the power of determination, but there's actually a lot of evidence that says otherwise, and I think you do an amazing job bringing it all together in such a short timeframe. Keep up the great work! :D
@Karuvitomsk
8 ай бұрын
Thank you for putting something like this out! I've personally never really put any stock into this fanon -- to me it seems more like toby just wanted to give each soul a unique personality, rather than suggest certain traits are universally represented by different colors -- the latter idea isn't reinforced by the rest of the narrative in any meaningful way.
@DangerNoodle68
4 ай бұрын
Honestly, I’ve always seen determination as yellow just because of the save points. I love to give my especially determined Undertale OCs yellow eyes.
@oversizedflowerpot
2 жыл бұрын
Your video's deserve so much more recognition smh
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Aw, thank ye!
@belacile
Жыл бұрын
Perhaps red could be “curiosity?” The only reason anybody would try playing the ball game again would be to “see what happens,” a recurring theme throughout the game. When you complete it a second time, it says “RED - Try as you might, you continue to be yourself.” Definitely not hard evidence, but it seems to make sense to me.
@MagentaSnail
2 жыл бұрын
thank you! since i heard of it i found this misconception fascinating, I'm glad more people are made aware of that
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
It's nice to bring these things to light since a lot of people sorta take these things for granted.
@JezElectro13
7 ай бұрын
I feel like Red SOUL might be one of Determination. It's just that SOUL color doesn't dictate trait, it's just a color, separate from trait.
@braedanbaird8851
2 жыл бұрын
It’s interesting. You bring up a lot of excellent points, especially with how the ball game never explicitly states that Determination is a trait. My personal thought is that determination is simply the ability that lets human souls persist after death. The other effect varies person to person, where Frisk can save and load because at their core, they are a determined person who refuses to give up. The other souls had other gifts that allowed them to make it as far as they did. For example, if the soul of justice was able to fight all the way to Asgore, how could that spirit of justice (not the song though) let them give up? Why would they have stopped? It makes more sense to me that to push through the limits of death, the others would be more like Undyne rather than Frisk. Able to stand up from a near death state, but not to rewind time at will.
@alexcaro2005
6 ай бұрын
sometimes I like to think that the "Red Soul" thing serves to represent something like... "Hey! This character has the most determination!" or "This character has the power over SAVEs and LOADs!" my arguements? 1. Frisk's and Kris' (possibly not-invited) soul are RED, and they had the power to SAVE and LOAD 2. and... I got nothing... 3. it's possible that the Red Soul is not even a trait at all, so Frisk and Chara can perfectly have other Main Soul Traits (like Kindness, Integrity, Justice or Perseverance) while still having their Soul Red because of their control over the Timeline Of course, there's a hole in the theory like when Flowey absorbs the Human Souls and he achieves control over the Timeline, but that's possibly because of Flowey having more determination because he absorbed multiple human souls to surpassed Frisk's rather than having determination of his own soul (I know Flowey is souless, but you get the idea) However, if the previous six humans could SAVE and LOAD... Why are their souls not Red? Somebody else stole (accidentaly) that power! just like when Frisk fell, Flowey couldn't SAVE or LOAD anymore so yeah, if my theory is true, then by the time somebody more determined than Frisk appears, Frisk's soul won't be red anymore, but instead another color revealing their natural trait again, it's just a funny theory
@MareMayo56
Жыл бұрын
JaruJaru made an interesting video theorizing that the soul may have the trait of “Power”, he makes some very good points.
@lillyofthegalley
2 жыл бұрын
Personally I think the red soul is just a "traitless" soul. A soul that has a bit of everything, and not enough of a singular trait in particular to distinguish itself as one trait. "Bravery. Justice. Integrity. Kindness. Perseverance. Patience. Using these, you were able to win at "Ball Game.""
@planetnydro
2 жыл бұрын
Looking at the SOUL modes, yellow is the only one you aren't forced into by your opponent. You press a button on your phone and your SOUL changes. You don't get to use in in the Genocide route, where you never get the phone upgrade. Even in Deltarune, it was probably Kris themself who changed the SOUL to yellow. It clearly wasn't the player, and Spamton is surprised and proud that you can use the *BIG SHOT*, which implies he didn't do it to you either. Justice is also what gives Undyne the determination to live after death, which is again, connected to yellow. Even the associated weapon has this connection. It's an EMPTY gun. You just throw it at people. Normally, you would just throw away the useless gun, but no, you just insist on finding a way to use it anyway. Too determined to admit that it may have been a bad idea. I like to think the yellow SOUL human willingly gave up their life to help the monsters escape. Most of the ones who fought in the war died, leaving their descendants to suffer underground for something they didn't actually do. And I doubt someone with a strong sense of justice like that could take a monster SOUL and go kill other humans, nor woild they let a monster take their SOUL to do the same. It would make sense for them to give up their own life for a chance to save many others.
@para9938
2 жыл бұрын
Talking about determination, there are clues hinting at Asgore having at least (most likely more) as much determination as Undyne and also being able to resist death. And Flowey is the biggest evidence for that. Beyond just Asgore being undefeated by the previous humans even if they might have the save power on their side, and the matter of Flowey never being able to go past him (he clearly managed to kill Asgore just like everyone else, but when it's Asgore putting himself between Flowey and the souls he never lost ; wouldn't even show where the souls are hidden anyway), there is Flowey's behavior in neutral after you have already beaten him. Sure there is the important talk of Frisk reminding Asgore of Chara with hopeful eyes and all, but what matters particularly is that while Flowey is back after loading even if killed, well... he doesn't attack Asgore this time. Why is that ? To me, I think Flowey completely acknowledge Asgore's determination and didn't expect him to die from his attack when he has so much hope in his eyes, just attacked to steal the souls without letting him the chance to interfere, and Asgore dying to his attack taught him something : Asgore with his eyes full of hope was actually moments away from dismissing it and being back to not having the will to live. And being the sadistic manipulator that he is, Flowey let us enjoy that loss of hope that Asgore was about to deliver in his next line when he comes back to reality, showing us that regardless of him being back when you load or not, your perfect ending will not happen. As for our first run compared to all other humans, we are just lucky to be the last one, he cannot kill us and "merely hope another human never come here again" as Toriel said because if he win the war against humans start now. We just never witness a moment in which Asgore actually has the will to live, therefore as much or more determination than Undyne doesn't matter.
@esmepipkin6087
2 жыл бұрын
My personal theory is that the red soul is Power, or Potential, rather My main reason for this is that the two people with confirmed red souls, Frisk and Kris, both have insane potential- Frisk has the potential to do things that nobody else could, such as the genocide and true pacifist routes, while Kris has the potential to literally stop the end of the world. I think this also goes well with the ball game, since you have to utilize all of the traits to reach your full potential there
@gunthegoldminer8119
2 жыл бұрын
Frisk could do those things because the had determination. Kris can do those things because of determination Frisk is *determined* to do the true pacifist route Kris is *determined* to save the world
@TheCatBee
Жыл бұрын
the only humans with red souls are the ones we play as (excluding Chara, but they're connected to frisk so it still kind of counts) and when Kris removes the red soul from their body, they gain full control of themself and aren't affected by player input. i like to think that the red soul is not the humans, but the players. another piece of evidence is that Susie, Noelle, and Ralsei can take damage when the red soul controlling Kris gets hit in battle, which wouldn't make sense if it was Kris's soul. i dont know if the humans we play as have their own, weaker soul, or if they were originally soulless like Flowey (which would explain frisk being a completely blank slate, or Kris's zombie-like movement/stance, lack of caring, and malicious behavior)
@567taco
2 жыл бұрын
it's possible the red soul has some sort of connection with the Player, seeing as the soul controlled by the player in Deltarune is also red, but seeing as we still don't know exactly what's going on there, and there isn't anything else to go off of, it's mostly just an interesting thought
@MissingNovice
9 ай бұрын
While I understand not viewing it as the red souls confirmed trait, I don't think the fact that all humans had determination necessarily means that's NOT what the red soul represents. After all, all people also have a sense of justice, perseverance, kindness, ect. I sorta get the vibe the souls just defined by whatever trait it exhibits the most of. And it just so happens Determination is the most important one for the purpose of the story and Alphys' experiments. I think you can kinda see that given how Frisk and Kris' souls can shift from red (presumed) "Determination" mode into yellow "Justice" mode and others. They're capable of exhibiting these things even if they aren't the central aspect of who they are.
@Finnbo18
2 ай бұрын
Red being Determination seems redundant when there is already a soul for Perseverance.
@psychicfriendfredbear7058
9 ай бұрын
I feel like red would be control of something at the end of the genocide route chara said you aren’t the one in control after saying it was their soul. Kris with the same colour soul in deltarune shows clearly that you are controlling them. At the end of the true pacifist you can go back to talk to mettaton and you don’t have a choice when he ask you a question after showing the player you aren’t in control. But that’s just my take and I can be overlooking it. Oh and how the other monster shove different soul traits you can control
@TheSoulCalledZuzia
9 ай бұрын
Yeah, I totally agree! And the fact that red soul is the (almost) only one you can control freely!
@Daionor
Жыл бұрын
YOU DO IF? Damn, I'mma have to sub just for that, let alone this great analysis.
@plaguecrusader2081
Жыл бұрын
I'm late, so you prob wont see, but my own thoughts for the Red Soul are that it's the violence soul. I don't think exactly violence, but a trait or name like it. We see "Level of Violence" in red, we see asgores name in red (a violent tyrant as we think at this point), also Chara's red dialogue only appears in the geno route
@Dorked
Жыл бұрын
Technically, not all of Chara's dialogue appears in red in geno. There are plenty of lines that are in plain text- the red text seems to be for especially emphasized/emotionally charged statements, I'd say, since IIRC "date" is also highlighted in red at one point along with "ball game." I get what you're saying, mind but I also wouldn't call Asgore a tyrant by any stretch. He's very loving toward his people and was motivated by a desire to give them hope. xD
@plaguecrusader2081
Жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Oh I meant that earlier in the game when we think Asgore is a tyrant (like after the papyrus battle) his name appears in red. Later after we realize that he is a good man, his name is normal. The emotion statement you made makes more sense though.
@lapraslazuli270
2 жыл бұрын
My interpretation at one point was that it was Adaptability, since the soul changes colors throughout the game. Now I think it's Individuality, since all that color-changing stuff seems to not at all be exclusive to Frisk's red soul lol. That paired with Ball Game's second description for red, which is the ultimate source since that's where all the other soul traits came from.
@JoelTheParrot
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe a Red SOUL means that you have a sense of unity. Frisk has a sense of unity with Chara, for example, and somehow one Red SOUL getting hit in Deltarune can lead to any or all of the 3 party members being hit. So perhaps a Red SOUL lets you connect with others better, which also fits into the theme of the game? (And also Kris is being controlled in-universe by an entity representing the player if not just the player soooo definitely feels like more than one entity simultaneously there, and Kris can only escape us by throwing the Red SOUL into a bird cage, which'd be strange if they needed that SOUL to survive.)
@Acv-rh6dm
2 жыл бұрын
Not sure if i should leave a comment considering this video is three months old, but here goes. We know of three to two humans who have red souls. Frisk, Chara, and Kris, although this might be slightly dubious because we might be overiding Kris's soul with our own. Looking at all of these, their determination varies massively from somewehre a bit under 5 regular human souls worth (Frisk) to Chara, who is implied to have less determination than Asriel via multiple texts that I can't be bothered to put here right now. Kris is a different case, the text describing Kris tell us that it contains a human soul which could possibly mean it's not their own, but ours. This widens the search to look for things that mainly talk about 'you' instead of 'Kris,' There is another common word in both games, especially Deltarune, that is also vital to the series. Whenever you save in Deltarune (with a white light, not sure if that makes a difference) YOU are instead filled with POWER. This is supported even more by the track that plays when you seal a fountain is called 'Your Power'. Applying this to Chara presents, at the end of the genocide route, that the entire reason they returned was for power. Frisk, also is pretty self explanatory. Their absurd amount of determination is a power by itself. Therefore I think the red soul, instead of determination, symbolises Power. If you happen to read this and have any contradictory evindence or even want elaboration, comment. I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks.
@croissant2434
2 жыл бұрын
having the red soul being "pure" determination doesn't invalidate character weight to me if souls are the culminations of the very being, it feel that it's because firsk is so determined to continue that the soul is red. the yellow color for determination however feel coherent, and I can see both being used for determination. that how I put my interpretation, without putting too much more in it. it feel coherent that the red soul is "raw" determination one that without a soul and a mind that can channeled it, while it feel coherent that "outside" determination is yellow not being taped by anything. maybe it doesn't make sense, but that how I see it. (and how I could see why the color is different, to note that it doesn't impact the yellow soul, because that would be dumb) there certainly a lot of assumptions towards souls, theirs meaning, and determination in the fanbase, so it's great that you gave a fact centric video about what we know (and don't know!) about those topics.
@codeviper8665
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Red symbolizes love...both "love" and "LOVE" It symbolizes both the capacity to help others and the capacity to harm others? Or maybe it symbolizes choice?
@sapphiremccallister9168
Жыл бұрын
Ooh, I really like that idea!
@moppermop5287
2 жыл бұрын
My personal theory is that the red trait is a combination of all the other traits. The ball game does say to get the red flag you had to use all the traits.
@Ghostguy693
Жыл бұрын
I personally take Red to be all other traits combined. The red Ball Game flag did list you beating it using them all, after all.
@blakeness3629
2 жыл бұрын
Like other people say, a Red Soul could be like a "Jack of all trades" (aka "Freedom"), While Frisk isn't strong in any of them, they CAN use ALL of them, Like They can't defend themselves without Undyne Spear (Although I believe this is another Fandom Mandela) Or They can't shoot without Alphys phone upgrade (And the Ball game says that you needed to use all of them to "Win" the Ball Game) but the fact stands that they could change their soul color/trait. This can be somewhat confirmed thanks to Chapter 2 Because Kris Soul / Our Soul changes to a "Justice" Soul for the Spamtom Fight, But unlike UT This is shown to be something BIG, something really important. Like the fact that They could Change the Trait to SHOT Spamtom is shown as a trump card
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, jack of all traits would also make a funny "red mage" parallel, even if I doubt that's what Toby was going for. God, I wish we knew more about DR because I feel like if anything fleshes out the meaning and importance of red souls, it'll be there.
@Nobody-el2eb
Ай бұрын
Red could be determination, but instead of it being the determination in every soul, it could mean to choose, to determine. It's also implied to be the player's soul rather than Frisk/Kris's. but if you believe that you just corrupted the soul then it could be hope or love.
@B4K4xNi
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly red as being yourself or being free makes a LOT of sense and has a lot of implications for deltarune...
@thefarlander2050
Жыл бұрын
My personal theory is that the color of the souls don't actually pertain to the children who died. Reason for this is because monsters can turn Frisk's soul different colors for different attack, most notably green for Shield Mode and blue for Jump Mode. Orange and blue attacks are an optional attack variant monsters can do, and the only time Frisk's soul becomes yellow is when Alphys gives them an upgraded phone with a "Shooter Mode". The reason I think the children's soul colors are coincidentally the same color as the various magic attacks monsters can do, is to explain further how they died in the Underground. The orange soul perhaps died because they were too slow against a monster using an orange attack, the yellow soul probably died because they weren't given an upgraded phone by Alphys or misused it, to name a few. Besides that, I think soul colors for humans don't exactly mean much, and could either reflect the personality of the human who it belonged to, or perhaps a random flip of the coin through human genetics. Plus I think the reason why Frisk's soul is red can be explained by the intro sequence of Deltarune. The narrator entity creates a red soul that we pilot around when selecting bodyparts for our "vessel", which ultimately gets thrown away by the end of it. Kris rips out a red soul from their chest at the ends of chapter 1 and 2 thus far, a red soul that we can manipulate prolifically in chapter 1's ending. What I think is that in both instances, the red soul isn't actually Frisk's or Kris's, but our own. We replace their soul with our own, and either use their Determination for whatever we want to do in either games, or replace whatever Determination they have with our own. Of course this is all rooted in my own way I see the game, and piecing together stuff found from the game to have it make sense. I understand not everyone would want to see it that way, and that's completely alright. Great video by the way, and I can't wait to see more!!!
@kingofmocha
Жыл бұрын
That teory doesn't make any sense at all, sorry for being rude but i have proves, the blue soul dies after papyrus and it's killed by undine probably, the patience soul didn't event start when he died in the ruins, and there's no monster in the cave to have the patience ability of doing static attacks. Also I'm pretty sure the colors correspond with the armors and weapons leaved by the souls in their corresponding spots, you can see it at the Photoshop flowey battle, the souls attack with their corresponding weapons and elements.
@thefarlander2050
Жыл бұрын
@@kingofmocha Hey that's okay if you were a little blunt with your opinion on my theory. It's cool how you felt comfortable sharing your views on the subject. I forgot the fact the human souls actually had descriptions about them in Ball Game, so taking that into consideration, it makes sense why you think some children died in certain locations. The cyan soul was probably too slow to dodge a monster's attack, and simply died in the Ruins, for example. Good point. Personally though, I think the SOUL Modes of Photoshop Flowey weren't actually the souls themselves doing it. Humans can't use magic like monsters, so Flowey was maybe just using the souls as power for his own magical attacks, and each human soul fuelled different styles of attacks.
@kingofmocha
Жыл бұрын
@@thefarlander2050 it's pretty interesting your point actually, sorry if i was a little direct or ofensive, I don't write in english to often
@thefarlander2050
Жыл бұрын
@@kingofmocha Nah that's cool. Thanks for brining up those points though.
@MadamLava094
Жыл бұрын
The idea of the other souls being able to save and load is fascinating, but also could be read as rather grim: The other fallen humans could load their saves but eventually lost hope to the point of accepting a permanent end at ASGORE's hands. Besides his reluctance, this could also recontextualize Asgore letting you avoid his fight multiple times and suggesting you do anything else you wish first could be read as him understanding he cannot permanently win until the human has exhausted all other possibilities
@Lumberjack_king
Жыл бұрын
Glitchtale is the fan work that uses this piece of fannon the most
@wearvolk
8 ай бұрын
i like the theory that the red, is the power of the player controlling the soul. it makes sense for deltarune so far
@wearvolk
8 ай бұрын
i also think that monster souls can probably have colored souls as well because of this.more proof for this i think is when yoy fight papyrus/sans, muffet and undyne yoyr soul changes color. andalso, in the undyne fight, when your soul is green, you cant flee, and when you flee theres this visual of the RED soul running away. so i believe that to flee is to use the red soul power, i think thats more proof of that as well.
@orincomly6138
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the Red souls represented by the player
@psychopomp4135
2 жыл бұрын
Personally, I think that red is the default color for all human SOULs, lacking any specific trait. It is only once a human develops their own unique combat style that their SOUL color shifts. This explanation accounts for the lack of any specified red trait in either versions of the red ball game flag, as well as the six other SOULs’ repeated association with different styles of combat (as demonstrated through their various corresponding weapon + armor combos, SOUL modes, methods of defeating the Ball in Ball Game, and bullet patterns in Omega Flowey’s fight). This explanation is also based on the fact that red is commonly seen as the default color of hearts and heart symbols irl, with all other colors being seen as deviations from that.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Ooh, that's a unique take on it, too. I like seeing the variety of ways people can look at stuff like ball game and the conclusions they can draw.
@Determinded
8 ай бұрын
this is a very informative video and clears a lot of stuff of thanks
@ReeeeDeeee2005
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with the Freedom, Independence, or Hope theories. But a part of me wondered if the Red Soul could be a “Neutral” Soul, mainly cause we are usually the Red Soul in the games and we can influence the story and how it progresses, (referring to the different routes).
@thetravelerofworlds8359
2 жыл бұрын
fascinating!!! an excellent analysis. Thank you for your efforts.
@roowin0
Жыл бұрын
okay, i heard you, but i still will stand by the thought of dt being red
@anna48792
7 ай бұрын
Personally I think all the souls have determination, but the red soul is pure determination. This explains why the red soul can turn into other souls so easily, it merely requires a dilution with other traits. Also, that's why Frisk has more determination than Flowey, and the other humans don't. It's sort of like the water of souls, and the others are like other drinks (milk, soda, juice, ect)
@padawanmoses
Жыл бұрын
While watching this I just thought about a really dark possibility. Red in Frisk soul being the Soul Trait of Emptyness. I mean, there is that theory about Frisk going to the mountain to end it all, right? And the fact whenever you save it is said you are FILLED with Determination... You cannot fill something that is already filled, can you? Also, the ball game and, iirc, Omega Flowey battle, suggests that the different Soul Traits of the previous humans filled Frisk's soul. That would also explain why the other humans ended up giving up: it's not that they were less determined, but that by having a soul trait of their own, they didnt have space for as much Determination as Frisk, who by the time they had gone to the mountain had lost the will to continue and regained it in the Underground. Edit: also, I wouldnt say yellow IS Determination, as it is associated with Justice. There is a nice theory from a friend of mine about every Soul Trait actually being a variation of Determination.
@KyleGK01
Жыл бұрын
Obviously the red soul is red because of tomatoes
@threebeanmaraca
2 жыл бұрын
i really love your voice haha, your commentary is really interesting
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
haha, thanks. c: I try my best!
@JANJANOJAN
2 жыл бұрын
3:29 Flowey having second hand determination i think allowed him to awaken as the flower but his drive had to come from his own desire i feel. Like maybe the humans couldn't reset because neither could the amalgamations and stuff (maybe one could but never used it idk) but maybe the humans dt allowed for monsters to be revived but i think floweys desires are really what gave him the power to reset, the souls just jumpstarted him but the power to reset came from somewhere himself. The dialouge that Asgore had i think does imply what your saying like how he nods, maybe he knows alot more than we think since maybe the other royal scientist told him what he would be up against like they were able to keep track of timelines somehow idk so maybe thats how he was semi awareish maybe it was a deja vu feeling?
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
But the humans could reset- that's VERY strongly implied. As I said in the video, Toriel specifically states that every time she meets humans (plural), it's like meeting an old friend. As in, this deja-vu has happened with humans before. That coupled with Asgore paints a pretty strong picture. Not to say Flowey has no agency, but determination has been established as what allowed him to use the power. Flowey's own will power was a part of it, sure, but he only was able to manifest that will power via having all that determination, which also gave him consciousness.
@JANJANOJAN
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Yes exactly this, without the dt from humans he wouldnt have awakened but i think the power to reset came from somewhere else because the almalgamations couldnt do it themselves despite having the dt and stuff so i think floweys will is also a big part in how he was able to reset. but yea ofcourse the humans could reset i dont doubt that anymore because there is alot of implications that cant be ignored tbh
@maddoxlacy9072
2 жыл бұрын
I still think it represents Determination, personally, but this largely revolves around minor details in the plot. Determination is *repeatedly* mentioned, almost ad nauseum as Frisk's most defining trait throughout the entire story, and their soul just happens to be red. Their red soul, notably, is completely absent from the list of traits other souls have, which are made very clear to be the primary traits of those people (should monster sources be believed) Now, this is a liiiiittle headcanon-ish, but hear me out: The seeming aversion to any open discussion about determination, aside from directly referring to Frisk, (after all, who mentions it save Alphys when not around Frisk) seems an awful lot like the seeming taboo surrounding discussing Chara and Asriel. (This, obviously, goes into the potential headcanon of chara being a red soul, which isnt itself actually confirmed...but would make plenty of sense) I think its the vacuum of knowledge there that makes determination the seemingly obvious answer, much like Gaster falling into the CORE or even Flowey being made by Alphys to an extent. Red is the one color that is never talked about that we see, and its the one most defining trait of the last person who tried giving everything to free monsterkind, and/or kill everyone.
@jessiellanes3004
2 жыл бұрын
To me red soul is❤️ hope (asgore said) And Determination is the ✨star shape that'll we spawn point and save and load I have this in mind about 3 years ago and if I base this is in real life Body = Chara Frisk and Kris Soul = soul real life is called Priest=purple=Perseverance Artisan=blue=Integrity Sage=cyan=Patience Server=Green=Kindness Scholar=yellow=Justice King=orange=Bravery Warrior=red= Red soul Spirit= spirit in real life is like determination and had 2 types Holy spirit(gold star)=Undertale spawn point ✨ Spirit (white star)= Deltarune spawn point
@tomasito_3022
2 жыл бұрын
I think the RED soul, is the player representated in a soul, that we can use to save and load and most important: control frisk and kris. If someone ever absorbed OUR soul/red soul, we could play as the one who absorbed it or idk
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Chara is a bit of a snag, tho. Their soul was red and they died long before Frisk's journey begins. That's why I think there might be some greater significance to the red soul that Toby has yet to reveal.
@_therandomcreater_1213
Жыл бұрын
Maybe red highlights POWER the only time red is mentioned is when it's of a person or thing of power ASGORE, UNDYNE, FLOWEY, US
@Judge-ob9he
2 жыл бұрын
At 2:08, you say Flowey's DT came from the other SOULs. When Asriel died, he was in possession of Chara's red SOUL; the other 6 hadn't even fallen down yet. While it's entirely possible Flowey only came into existence recently, that doesn't seem to add up in what I've peiced together.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Flowey was injected with determination from the six human SOULs, as explained in Alphys' reports in the true lab. She took the flower from the throne room and injected it, then returned it when it didnt' seem to work.
@Judge-ob9he
2 жыл бұрын
Ah.
@Spikel3t
2 жыл бұрын
White is made of 7 colours and monster souls are white but at the same time it still most likely means blank, no defined trait
@pilotman463
6 ай бұрын
I still wanna know how humans have the power to load and save
@Emuotori_fr
4 ай бұрын
The underground is like a realm, no monster has determination, a human does, so I suppose once a human reaches the underground, being the being with the most determination there, they gain that control that can be lost if someone with more determination arrives. (Flowey losing their control when Frisk arrives), in addition to the fact that Flowey lost their power when Frisk arrives, that only explains that in effect that power is achieved when reaching the underground
@InternetFanatic
2 жыл бұрын
What makes this even more complex is of course the Player and Kris being Separate Entities And that when you finish the Pacifist Run and then go back to the Main Menu Flowey talks to the Player but not Frisk Also the Idea that all Humans have Determination might be a metaphor for well US playing Video Games I like to think that Humans kept pinning Chara to be Evil like how the Fandom did it is why Chara hated Humanity which considering well again Humans playing Video Games and doings stuff in Fandom is just an Ironic Twist that I Genuinely Believe that Toby Fox intended the Fandom to have the Chara is Evil Misconception
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
We still don't know if the red soul was always Kris' and we simply were forced upon it or if we replaced their soul. I think once we have an answer to that, it'll clarify things a lot.
@dangaming2556
2 жыл бұрын
Wait inverted fate is on its 6th anniversary? Im extremely new to the comic and i thought it was more like 4 years old for some reason
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, its sixth anniversary is next month! c:
@ericke.8640
2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff!
@RichConnerGMN
2 жыл бұрын
nice pfp
@funnybones98
Жыл бұрын
The way I see it is that the other humans have Determination, but it wasn't their trait. The souls all have words alluding to the trait, and the red soul's keyword is, well, determination. i think that frisk, as well as chara, have a red soul, chara due to the red text and that there's nothing else related to Chara. I think the other humans had SAVE, LOAD, and RESET, but they aren't determined enough to "Save" or survive Hypergoner. Sorry for this rant nobody's gonna read
@qzimyion
2 жыл бұрын
I actually had a theory that red soul trait represented "Freedom" or "Independence". You are only yourself when you're free or independent. This can also be supported via in-game mechanics like soul modes; unlike red soul mode every other soul shows some form of restricted movement, purple soul allows you move in specific lines, green restricts movement completely and blue allows for platformer type movement only red soul mode is when you're truly free to move anywhere you desire.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Ooh, that's a really interesting take, and not one I have heard before. o: I can dig it!
@rendumguy7596
2 жыл бұрын
This unfortunately doesn't work since Yellow Soul is a powerup and is objectively better than Red.
@MasterSquirrel993
2 жыл бұрын
You know? That’s a really good interpretation! And it really ties into Frisk/Chara’s (heck, even Kris’s) characters as well, too! Would certainly make the games’ messages that much more powerful, that’s for sure. -DRINK UP THAT [smooth taste] OF [freedom]-
@gretchling5012
2 жыл бұрын
@@rendumguy7596 technically, whenever the soul is yellow in either deltarune or undertale, it's still turning the soul in a specific direction (upwards in UT, to the side in DR). while it's not necessarily a restriction, it's still involuntary.
@spacecowboy3569
2 жыл бұрын
I think this idea makes the "Despite everything, it's still you" moment even more powerful
@TheEmeraldCreeper
2 жыл бұрын
While I did follow the red soul = DT thing, I never thought it was the only one with DT, just the one with the most. The "Love" thing in the manual does make sense though
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, thinking it has the most isn't a bad thing by any means. But I have legit seen people argue that none of the other human souls had DT. It was WEIRD. O_o
@Spookfishspecter
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly it being love makes sense. It could be love, literal caring, or LOVE, depending on the choices you make. It fits in nicely.
@TheAdvertisement
2 жыл бұрын
@@Spookfishspecter Even that fits the idea of determination, which acts as a capacity for choice, no matter what choice you make.
@user153xhzbso8e
2 жыл бұрын
@Mehpleb yeah Chara simply didn't have enough DT although they were determined more metaphorically aka ambious. The other humans are hinted at to have been able to reset with what Toriel says so yeah you could say that, especially considering those souls had their DT extracted for experiments in the true lab I believe although don't quote me on that.
@that_tvhead
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked i think it'd be extrodarinarily unrealistic for only specific people to have determination humans, at a constant, do things due to the fact they have the determination to. the will to. i am writing this because i want to, because i want to respond. thats determination. hell even people who have become hopeless and extremely upset are (probably) determined to die
@kevinm5940
2 жыл бұрын
3:44 this is something that always irritates me a lot. Sans says he noticed an anomaly _caused by_ the player (or the human, it's unclear if he even knows the player exists). An anomaly is just something that differs from expected results, it's not a spooky name for the player. I've seen fanfiction that takes this further, straightup introducing a cosmic entity called The Anomaly, which makes no sense (an anomaly from what?)
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
To be clear, I consider the anomaly to just be the way Sans interprets the saving and loading tomfoolery caused by Flowey and then players afterwards. I don't see it as a grand, cosmic entity or anything. I hope that clarifies things. But he does talk about "the anomaly" as a person in his battle dialogue. "i always thought the anomaly was doing this cause they were unhappy. and when they got what they wanted, they would stop all this."
@quantumwillow2734
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked i like to interpret it as a rare moment sans is completely wrong - he says "that was you, wasn't it?" right afterward, but you can get that dialogue on your very first save file. he's misinterpreting the same actions by flower as being caused by the player.
@kevinm5940
2 жыл бұрын
@@quantumwillow2734 there's a somewhat similar case if you open the game after getting a pacifist ending. Flowey gives a whole monologue about resetting the timeline, and it seems like he's referring to the player, but at the end it turns out that he was talking to Chara (or he thought he was, at least). This makes you wonder if he even knows the player exists in the first place, or if he only knows about Save files.
@tyrellforrrester9827
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Chara is the anomaly?
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@tyrellforrrester9827 I'm fairly sure that "the anomaly" was originally Flowey, and then it becomes Frisk (and by extension, us).
@souptaels
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the red soul is just a combination of all soul traits and that's why it's able to change its mode either by monster magic or, in deltarune's case, willingly. Could just be the entire Ball Game.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
That's certainly not a bad reading! It's one of the few interpretations that has more tangible evidence going for it, too.
@jamesanimations4885
2 жыл бұрын
It would explain why Kris can just go yellow all of the sudden
@bat2564
2 жыл бұрын
@@jamesanimations4885 we, not kris
@gabrielchastain6091
2 жыл бұрын
Although papyrus is pretty confident about turning you blue And sans is pretty confident when he does it Almost like it's just an ability for them And Undyne turns you green so she was confident it would work Dosent necessarily disprove that theory either I'm not sure though
@eddie-roo
2 жыл бұрын
@@bat2564 we don’t know who’s soul that is. It doesn’t have to be ours, we could just be in control without it belonging to us
@SoranMBane
Жыл бұрын
One thing I always couldn't help but notice is that the other six soul traits can themselves act as SOURCES of determination. Someone who is patient has the determination to wait for the right moment to achieve their goal. Someone who is brave has the determination to push past their fear. Someone with integrity has the determination to stay true to themself no matter what. Someone with perseverance has the determination to keep working towards a goal no matter how much they struggle. Someone who is truly kind will have the determination to stay kind no matter how cruel the world around them is. Someone with a strong sense of justice has the determination to always do what they feel is right. But maybe these were imperfect sources of determination, and some or all of the six souls might have failed because they ran into a situation that their specific core trait could not get them through. Perhaps the red soul, then, simply represents a more complete and flexible form of determination; not just a single specialized source of determination, but determination itself, with the potential to draw from all sources.
@abdillahahmad7025
9 ай бұрын
Nice observation
@Fran-rd1nl
9 ай бұрын
Exactly.
@Brydav_Massbear
8 ай бұрын
So red really is determination?
@ChimeraLotietheBunny
7 ай бұрын
Really true
@cybercider6620
2 жыл бұрын
My personal theory is that the red soul represents hope. Asgore states that Frisk has “the same feeling of hope in their eyes” as Chara, who we know had a red soul too (and possibly red eyes).
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Hope is a pretty reasonable interpretation, too! Especially since it's an act option during Asriel's fight.
@cybergreen6226
2 жыл бұрын
How do we know that Chara had a red soul already ?
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@cybergreen6226 Their coffin.
@cybergreen6226
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Oh yeah, I didn't remember that ! Thanks !
@amoralmarker6503
2 жыл бұрын
The only problem is what kind of "Hope" is given to a world of dust and bones? (Aka is it still considered hope during Genocide Run?)
@johnshephard9605
2 жыл бұрын
This was a pretty well made video. I do feel like pointing out some small, admittedly pedantic, details that came to mind while watching though. 1. Red souls having determination doesn't necessarily make it impossible for other souls to have determination. As there's no reason that Frisk can't be kind or brave even if their soul is the "wrong" color. I think a good portion of people who think that the save/load stuff is unique to the red soul is from fanfic that tries to give each color/trait its own unique magic thing. 2. I feel that having Frisk having the soul trait of determination wouldn't necessarily downplay their character. Granted, this is probably more of a "chicken or the egg" thing, but souls are stated to be the culmination of a person's being. So it could be argued that Frisk having said hypothetical soul trait is a further expression of who they are rather than something imposed on them.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Point two is an especially valid one! I just think that a lot of people treat things like red = DT and Frisk being the only human to have the power as fact without digging deeper into it. Mind you, the Toriel dialogue is something you have to go out of your way to get, but it's just kinda a pet peeve of mine that so many fanworks have gone for stuff like that, haha. I'm one of those people who gets caught up in little details like that, so I wanted to bring some attention to it, admittedly.
@Omegaweaponsguy2
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked this is just a "what if" scenario, but what if the color of the souls is what is most prominent characteristic in a human? assuming that every soul has a color for each prominent characteristic, but all souls are capable of doing what other do, yet, that one thing stands out. every soul can be kind, brave, patient, just, and many other characteristics. Determination is just another characteristic, but at the same time, DT can't exist in a vacuum, there needs to be something else behind DT, that being the motivation of doing something. Determined to be Just, Determined to be Brave, Determined to keep your integrity, but what is Determination without motivation. no one can be determined just because of determination's sake. Red could represent a immature soul, that which has determination, but no motive behind it. Red is an interesting color, used both for Love and Violence. Blood and Lust. Red craves for a meaning, for it can be a violent one, or a loving one. it needs meaning, and that is why its terrifying. unguided, Determination can be used to kill, just to see what happens. guided determination allows for the human to fulfill a goal, the will of the monsters to be freed, determined to show the monsters a new life. in both instances, you are changing the surroundings, bringing a halt to the status quo and forver leaving a mark in the world. be it that of murder or freedom. you, the player, are the guide in this scenario. you are the one that makes the choice, Violence or Mercy. Attack or Spare. to Kill, or to not Kill. the meaning of the Red soul is what we, the player, decide to do with it. we either love, or kill. but there's always that damned 3rd option. one of not caring, just going through. that pokes a massive hole in this, but at the same time, it makes perfect sense, since YOU havent decided to KILL everyone, or to SAVE everyone
@danthespaceman9747
2 жыл бұрын
@@Omegaweaponsguy2 I’ve always thought that the soul’s colour was dictated by its most prominent trait and that a human soul has all seven of them in different amounts, so to see another person say that too feels nice.
@DavidSartor0
Жыл бұрын
@@Dorked The other children had Save Files. Flowey uses some of them in his fight (2, 3, and 5, IIRC). He can't have just made them, as Frisk uses File 9.
@greyscaleadaven
2 жыл бұрын
The whole yellow associated with determination thing really plays into my ideas about Deltarune right now. The save points are no longer yellow, and nor do they say you are determined. Artificial determination is also white, so it's possible that Kris has that, as Flowey was able to save despite his lack of soul due to the artificial determination he obtained. It's possible that's why their save points are white and not yellow. Saves also only appear in the dark worlds, so maybe there's a connection there as well.
@choboy46
Жыл бұрын
It isn't really "artificial," it's DT extracted from other human SOULs.
@greyscaleadaven
Жыл бұрын
@@choboy46 You'd be right on that front, bad wording on my part. Being injected with determination is different than just having it inherently, right? That's more what I mean. Like someone who normally doesn't have determination getting more through outside means.
@Negonkey
Жыл бұрын
No, not the yellow SOUL, it's the golden SOUL
@jythmivena6617
Жыл бұрын
The first save point in Deltarune says that you (Kris) had seen them before, and Kris up to that point had never been in a dark world, meaning they don't only show up in the dark world, they just haven't yet when we started puppeteering Kris
@GabrielSapphire13569
Жыл бұрын
Or maybe determination doesn't exist in Deltarune
@AdamM3377
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. Back in 2016, there was a theory posited that all the children had the ability to reset (hence toriel's dialogue) and that Red actually indicated the trait of Love.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think that's one of the most reasonable takes, and I'm surprised it's not talked about as much.
@TheRealSuperKirby
2 жыл бұрын
This supports my take that the "true" frisk is evil.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheRealSuperKirby I personally really doubt that. Frisk's name is only given in pacifist. Sure, you can be a jerk pacifist, but it's still only given in runs where nobody dies.
@TheRealSuperKirby
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked during genocide frisk brakes free of the players control and shows happiness when finding something new to kill. The only time in the whole game the show an emotion.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheRealSuperKirby That's after gaining a lot of LV. And even then, Frisk acts independently other times. They get behind the conveniently shaped lamp. Their walk speed slows when approaching the shower in the true lab. There are other examples of this throughout the game. Sans describes them as running away with a smile in his pacifist judgment. They are described as showing other emotions and reacting in certain ways through context clues in dialogue, too. At the end of the day, their name is still only given in Pacifist. To assume any character in Undertale is wholly evil misses the point of the game's message.
@SamCal
2 жыл бұрын
This was an awesome analysis! I always associated determination to the red color but giving it a second thought, I changed my mind a bit. your analysis described this all pretty well! Either way, Undertale has an unceaseable amount of plot holes and unsolved mysteries, and seeing all these analysis and theories being broken down is truly interesting!
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah, and to be clear, I don't think linking red to DT is _bad_ . I just think it's good to look back and consider what's actually in the original game.
@SamCal
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked True! Not saying I dismiss the idea completely lol 😅
@knight123x4
2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to suggest Chara's morality (or Chara in general) for a Mandela Effect video. There's a decent amount of stuff to cover for that, and it's always nice to hear people talk about it.
@riluna3695
2 жыл бұрын
I second this so hard. There's so much evidence pointing away from the fandom interpretation, and sure Chara is a troubled kid, not some pure perfect angel like some overcorrect to, but it's nothing like what so many people claim. In fact, lemme help out a bit by listing a couple of quick pieces of evidence that could help sell the point. (And this is FAR from an exhaustive list) 1) The narration on the dog food bag in Alphys's lab suggests that Chara is pessimistic by default and/or with any deaths, but very specifically feeling optimistic in any run with no deaths thus far. In other words, Chara is happier when Frisk is being merciful. 2) All throughout the Ruins Chara is making comments like "It's just with the wrong crowd" and "don't bully him", in stark contrast to the semi-common fan headcanon that they're constantly whispering in Frisk's ear to get them to kill monsters. 3) Asriel's understanding of Chara's plan was "claim exactly six souls to break the barrier and free monsterkind", and Genocide-Chara remarks that "our plan" had failed, heavily implying that the plan was shared with Asriel, and thus that what they told Asriel was not a lie or half-truth. That really WAS the entire plan, not murdering all of humankind. (In the official Japanese translation, this is altered slightly to "Asriel's and my plan", clearing up precisely who the "our" refers to)
@user153xhzbso8e
2 жыл бұрын
@@riluna3695 that's facts idk why the fandom is just stupid and likes to pick on them so much, I was on a debate on this with some redditor and this mf said chara is 100% evil in every route and I'm like 💀, he doesn't believe in the narrachara theory (even though it's made pretty obvious it's chara considering the narrator doesn't act like a narrator but as their own character) some others said that chara isn't stupid and that they wanted to kill the whole village and start another war because the monsters would see the true human nature and would be prepared to which I say where is the proof? Their proof is logic because "why would they go to the most populated part of the village if they didn't want to get attacked on purpose" even tho it's not said where in the village they went but oki.
@riluna3695
2 жыл бұрын
@@user153xhzbso8e I hear you on that, and I'm glad to see more people who dig deeper and attempt to truly understand. Just be careful not to get so worked up defending Chara that you turn into a villain your own self :P I've had discussions with a particularly intellectual person who still happens to believe that Chara is more evil than good, and we've each had our moments of "wait, that's a really good point..." in each direction. There are definitely some sticking points here and there that can be difficult to explain, but I stand by my girl (or whatever they may be) to the end. I just make sure I listen properly to the naysayers and judge their points properly, and take utmost care never to dismiss their ideas out of hand. It's just that more often than not, I have counterpoints for whatever someone tosses my way.
@user153xhzbso8e
2 жыл бұрын
@@riluna3695 I'm not defending them aswell I don't think they're good or bad and how i wish I could have more debates where both me and the other guy bring up a point where even I say "wow that's actually good ngl" but instead I mostly get offenders that are just intitled to thier opinion, a guy said chara shows evil intent in pacifist (not soulless btw) so you can see where I'm coming from.
@riluna3695
2 жыл бұрын
@@user153xhzbso8e Ah, I see now. Yeah, people love to treat their opinions and/or interpretations of events as ironclad facts, and they can get incredibly defensive when those ideas are challenged, even casually. It's important for everyone out there to remember that an attack to your interpretation is NOT an attack to YOU. That's something everyone struggles with, it's simply human nature to fall into that trap. It can be tough for me to back away from that and listen more critically, but it's always incredibly rewarding when I do it right, and that's whether I win the argument or lose it. It's the only way to grow and better yourself. This may be tagged to one specific person, but I encourage every person reading this to do their best to keep this idea in mind. It will improve your life so much, you have no idea. I speak from a decade of experience.
@johanstenfelt1206
2 жыл бұрын
Huh, how very interesting, the thought process about Soul Traits, I figured to just simply be that while every Soul has Determination the majority of Souls can have a Main Trait represented by the Soul Color alongside it or something like that, but your video has informed me quite a bit, very appreciated.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah, I don't think any human is dominated by one personality trait, even if soul traits are intended as something more than just flavor text. I just think that at times people treat them as like the Only thing that matters.
@johanstenfelt1206
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked hm, i see.
@zekeram129
2 жыл бұрын
I think part of the problem is that Justice is already associated with yellow, which makes things confusing.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
That's why I prefer to associate DT with gold rather than yellow specifically. But I also just don't see soul traits as a very big deal with any inherent special power to them.
@gabrielrochadasilva3183
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked If you go to Asgore's shop in Deltarune, you can see both a yellow and a golden flower, and they're different. I think that was placed there specifically to specify Yellow ≠ Gold.
@thumbsup8985
2 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrochadasilva3183 also, there is no red flower!
@Blwbelle
2 жыл бұрын
I like to think determination is just a very saturated yellow Also you need to have a lot of determination to bring people to justice so it makes sense it would be the closest to the color of determination but not quite
@yeahbuddy7217
2 жыл бұрын
Hope "Don't lose *hope*, stay determined" Hopes and dreams is the Asriel theme song. Asgore explicitly states that you are the reason the monsters still have hope. Toriel has lost hope by the end of the ruins. It seems hope is intrinsically linked to the Dreemur family, and every major boss without a unique soul gimmick is a part of the Dreemur family.
@Charafromthehitgameundertale99
6 ай бұрын
Perseverance is a synonym for determination. So, if the red soul was determination, that would mean two souls are basically determination.
@orangejuicejubilee6149
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I'd also always assumed red was determination, but I did always think it was weird that Toby chose persistence as a soul trait alongside it. Those two words don't have the exact same meaning, and definitely have different connotations, but all the other soul traits feel a lot more distinct. The Red soul having a different trait associated with it makes sense. I like the suggestion of "Hope" I keep seeing in the comments, that's definitely a well-fitting word. .
@SpeedyCheetahCub
7 ай бұрын
I want to point out that not having a specific soul trait doesn't mean you can't be that trait. For example, you can be kind and patient at the same time. So really, a soul trait is just what one of the options you have the most, not the only one you have. So if RED=DETERMINATION that doesn't mean that only RED souls are determined, just that they are *more* determined than souls with other traits. However, we still don't actually know what the trait of RED souls are.
@eris4734
2 жыл бұрын
I love how there's an echo flower that says that it would take every monster soul to match the determination of just one human soul, and then asriel can break the barrier using only 6 human souls because he has every monster soul, equaling the power of the seventh human soul
@spindash64
6 ай бұрын
I've always been partial to Red being Love, both the good and the bad. The fallen human, loving their family so much they'd throw away their life to unlock the cage their adopted family resided in Asgore, so bound by a love for his people and for the children he lost, that he cannot bring himself to surrender, even when he knows he's only hurting himself more Frisk, who only gains the afformentioned power to refuse death after having befriended every monster they could find, being so filled with love for this found family that they REFUSE to let go of it and start over And by those same concepts, it can become an inability to let go...
@otomeroid
7 ай бұрын
Red - Unknown (At the moment) Cyan - Patience Orange - Bravery Blue - Integrity Purple - Perseverance Green - Kindness Yellow - Justice Gold - Determination (EX: Flowey, the Save point, Golden Flowers, The Golden Flower in Asgore's Shop in Deltarune)
@TheAdvertisement
2 жыл бұрын
Bit of a tangent here, but I see determination as a figurative capacity for choice. It what allows you to reset your mistakes in Undertale, it's what allows you to try different routes, and its a power that allows multiple monsters to change the course of your journey in terrifying ways. And then we have Deltarune, where supposedly your choices don't matter. That message goes against the very nature of determination, which makes it interesting when its motif appears in Rude Buster (and subsequentially Lantern), and is directly referenced by Queen at the end of Chapter 2. In Rude Buster it makes sense, the battles are where you make the biggest choices. They're where you can either choose to fight or spare and get different endings of Ch1 because of it, and they're where you can choose to begin Snowgrave. Even if these choices don't matter, they're still choices. But then Queen saying that all lightners have determination, that at least in the Dark World, they _all_ have the capacity for choice, even Kris. They even demonstrate this by creating a dark fountain at the end of the Chapter. So, why don't we have choice? It's an interesting dynamic, to where the player supposedly doesn't have choice, but clearly Kris does. Perhaps the soul we pilot Kris with, doesn't allow us access to its determination... after all, the game takes care to mention pretty much everything besides determination at the savepoints, and there's a much different file system that allows us to reload.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
I like to think our presence is hampering Kris' choice, and they are struggling to fight back and make their own choices, even if it means making reckless decisions. Though I'd say we have a choice in a sense, since SNowgrave exists. It's just we're imposing our will on Noelle to pull it off.
@TheAdvertisement
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Definitely in line with what I'm thinking, that the lack of choice is attributed to the player, not Kris. Which yeah, is what makes Snowgrave so interesting because we manipulate another party member into making that choice.
@MeloniestNeon
2 жыл бұрын
Personally, I believe the red soul is more of a mixture of things, as a lot of other people have pointed out. However, if I had to pin a trait to it, it wouldn't just be, as a few people have said, "Freedom" or "Staying true to yourself," but rather "Ambiguity" or some other similar synonym. Why? Think about it this way; Who was Chara? Who was Frisk? Who was Kris? (Well, we kiiiinda get a very broad idea of Kris's personality, but that's main from when he was a kid, and only from Noelle's perspective, not in recent times by any means.) I believe it relates to how we have no clue what these humans are even like, nonetheless what their strongest personality trait would have been. It also goes deeper into the odd connections the soul has to the Player, being that they could be literally anyone. The soul's controlling force could be a pacifistic player, a speedrunner, one of those guys who fills their inventory before fighting Spamton Neo so his item can't enter into their pocket, ect. It works in a lot of ways, and even if it isn't particularly pointed out or hinted at in game, the mystery behind the soul might as well be its trait by this point, right? But then again, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Nice video, and I can't wait to see what happens next in Inverted Fate. Keep up the good work!
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
I'd argue we know plenty about Kris' personality in the present. The way they respond to certain choices, especially in Chapter 2, their search history, their mannerisms and actions. Kris is by far the most fleshed out of the humans in UT/DR and I do plan to do a more thorough analysis on them later. It's just gonna take a while.
@MeloniestNeon
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dorked Fair, but I still think there is enough evidence for the theory, or rather lack of evidence to disprove it, even if it isn't directly the intended trait or meaning of the soul. After all, we still don't know anything about why Kris has done some things, what that weird flash-back-y cutscene at the start of Chapter Two means, ect. that it can hold true. Still, I do agree that we certainly know more about Kris than any other human in the series, lol. Again, love the explanation and character analysis videos, and keep up the good work! hope all goes well with your fundraiser and the cause it goes towards, even if I don't particularly have the means or the spare cash to donate!
@Punykirby
2 жыл бұрын
My personal headcanon ever since Spamton NEO was introduced was the Red Soul is the Soul of "Choice" In UT Frisk has the choice to kill or spare, Frisk has the choice to actually get past Asgore, the other humans didn't have a choice, they were destined to fail, their choices didn't matter In DR Kris is being controlled by us, who influences their choices, but when it's removed, we are helpless, we can only control the soul itself when it's removed from the host Spamton wants Kris' soul because its the soul of choice, this part is based on theory, but there is a theory that Jevil and Spamton go mad after learning their choices don't matter, this would explain why Spamton would want the soul, he wants his choices to matter
@rafsandomierz5313
Жыл бұрын
That's very good thought out theory.
@moon4236
2 жыл бұрын
I have a theory that the red soul represents curiosity and that is why it is always related to the player in some way, because seeing what happens next is the reason we play and continue despite losing over and ovee and the whole "wanting to know what would happen if you did x" is a big point in undertale since the game is prepared for you to do weird different things like killing then sparing toriel, reseting immediately after talking to flowey, etc.
@moon4236
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShadowSaberBaroxio Exactly! I feel curiosity (and love) fit the best with the games themes
@personperson8712
2 жыл бұрын
red color in general seems to represent heavy emotion in Undertale. So my theory is, red soul has all the other soul traits, along with the natural human trait, determination. Determination itself is probably golden
@noreasontobesuspicious6103
2 жыл бұрын
Hence the golden flower being in the centre of all the other soul coloured flowers in Asgore's flower shop (in Deltarune Chapter 1).
@indie_gamer7
2 жыл бұрын
Oh i also had this headcanon, the reason why Frisk and even Kris can use all other soul powers was because thier soul was the combination of all traits, while some souls had a more specific stronger trait (the kindness soul even if having DT was more kind than determined) the red soul is a combination of all, all this traits are strong in the red soul, that's why i think the red soul could use the other traits.
@Dorked
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, red is used for strong emotions outside of battle bubbles where red on white is easier than another highlight color (e.g. yellow). Passion, love, etc, there are a lot of things one can read from it.
@lightning77natsaydokidokis68
2 жыл бұрын
@@indie_gamer7 Love cool name
@indie_gamer7
2 жыл бұрын
@@lightning77natsaydokidokis68 Thanks, your name is interesting.
@BirdRaiserE
2 жыл бұрын
Determination is gold Red is "important to you" It seems to mostly point at things you can do, like ESCAPE, and the red flag is all about yourself. I notice you didn't bring up the flowers in Asgore's shop while discussing colors
@MutedAndReported3032
Жыл бұрын
I’ve got a feeling that the soul colors actually don’t *represent* their respective traits. Like for example, what if having a green soul doesn’t mean that you’re inherently kind, but the human with the green soul that fell down just happened to be kind? Maybe the Ball game is just telling us that the human that had the orange soul was brave, or their main trait was bravery, not that all orange souls are brave?
@Negonkey
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, i have the idea that SOULs don't actually have traits, they're just different colors to know who's who
@Iemonkk
7 ай бұрын
@@Negonkey im pretty sure if that was how it worked monsters would have soul colors too.
@Negonkey
7 ай бұрын
@@Iemonkk It's to not be confusing. Human SOULs are not exactly a lot. Monster SOULs are a lot.
@m-yday
7 ай бұрын
Perhaps the Red Soul is “Persistence”? The reason we were the one who didn’t succumb and give up. The reason we are the “exception” to the rule. Determination powers you as long as you hold the will to go forward - as long as you keep persisting. There’s one or two holes in it, but most theories so far have the same issue. I’m not fully convinced but this remains the one I’m most convinced of! Edit: well it seems a synonym is already present: Perseverance. Although noticing the “Hope” option another commenter brought up, as well as it being THE option that gets you through the Asriel fight really stands strong to me. The other things may have got the other humans to different points, but only the one possessing the spirit of Hope could truly beat the True Pacifist ending.
@wispsprojects1120
2 жыл бұрын
It's an imperfect theory, as don't every color has a bossfight in Undertale, but the traits associated with the colors also can hint how to befriend certain characters, who change your Soul. Papyrus: You just need to have the Integrity to not betray kill him, he himslef will never kill you. Undyne: You have to show Kindness by giving her water after she tried to murder you. Muffet: You just have to persevere through her attacks until she realizes her mistake. Alphys: Don't forget, while you fight Mettaton, it's not him but Alphys who turns your Soul yellow. And in a sense, you have to bring her to justice, by helping her admit her mistakes and taking responsibility. I'm pretty sure Toby was intended to use all colors in battle, but he realized his limits along the way. I'm pretty excited to see the unused colors in DR and how he reinterprets the others.
@damianthorne2532
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. What do you think the connection is between Spamton and Justice?
@wispsprojects1120
2 жыл бұрын
@@damianthorne2532 I'm not sure if the meaning of the colors carries over to DR as it kinda feels like Toby is trying to build a new symbolism for this universe, cherry-picking only those elements of Undertale he feels like he can fit in. Yellow here might be associated with ambition and grandiosity: the color of gold, which lets you shoot BIG SHOTS (might be also an allure to fireworks as the celebration of a person) and Spamton NEO says he's proud of you, when the Soul transforms into yellow seemingly on their own and not because of something external influence like in Undertale. Spamton might see this as a proof that Kris has these traits in them too, validating the connection between them that he seems to think there is, and making getting Kris' Soul even more enticeing. But that's just a guess, it's too early to call it a real theory, lol.
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