That purple and silver set deserved every single chef’s kiss it received.
@josephpriest4925
4 жыл бұрын
I doubt Rybonator will see this, but his barbarian dice got me thinking: what if he puts a magnet in clear dice with a small amount of metal shavings, so you get the cool look of the magnetic spikes inside the dice that you can see through the clear dice. I think that would be a cool vid
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I see all >:) I also add all to my to-do list! My wife suggested this a while back. Totally gonna give it a shot :)
@caddyshack4977
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator You keep upping the ante with your alliteration, soon you won't be able to keep up
@lavaguava2648
4 жыл бұрын
"i doubt rybonator will see this" he says
@omegaflameZ
4 жыл бұрын
Might want to check out Peter Brown's recent stuff. Pretty sure he did something pretty large like that (and learned a few tips along the way IIRC).
@notSoAverageGuineaPigEnjoyer
4 жыл бұрын
Hello nicol bolas
@tntcake6327
4 жыл бұрын
Your puns are awful, please use more of them
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
My puns are FIRED up lately, and I've been KILN it ;D
@mystictabletop6040
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator sir you could be on the end of cnn 10
@Whatever1076
4 жыл бұрын
His puns are WHEELy bad =)
@andon_RT
4 жыл бұрын
I, for one, think they're punderful.
@ItsTheGofa
4 жыл бұрын
Yup, Rubo is definitely "dicing with death" hahahahah um sorry........
@Scarriana
4 жыл бұрын
when used for pottery, the lever is rarely used: instead the platform beneath it is used as a foot pedal, so you can have both hands on the clay as you control the speed. seeing a wheel used like this is wild
@qvatch
4 жыл бұрын
I used one of those for years and I never knew there was a lever.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Gotta think outside the box :D (Not me, because I was told this is useful for this haha)
@chrishuber2768
4 жыл бұрын
A lot of people throw standing up, the handle would be needed on this style of wheel then.
@highwaycavalier
4 жыл бұрын
Those purple and silver dice look AMAZING. (also I love the half silver half gold inking, what a cool look)
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them! :) It was a fun experiment that turned out pretty well
@Cyrashe
4 жыл бұрын
The purple foil set looks so good!! You should definitely let us know in an update how much he likes them, they're one of the cleanest foil dice I've seen in a long time.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Will do! :) If he hates them, it just means I get to take them back, so win win either way haha
@Cyrashe
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator Win win indeed!! Although I'm unsure how high your odds are of that, even when unused I would 100% have these dice sitting as a decoration on my shelf.
@rheabynum-lichty3683
4 жыл бұрын
Regular conversation in my house: Me: oo Rybonator has a new video! Spouse: How much money has he cost me now? Me: 🤓 🥰
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Tell your spouse I apologize for the dent in your wallet! haha
@thingswecarry7564
4 жыл бұрын
In an age of hyperbolic modesty it's really nice to hear a maker say "The thing I made is awesome!" This sets a great example for younger makers to be proud of their work. Good stuff man.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
They absolutely should be proud of what they do! I feel like I improve each and every time, so it's fun to watch my own progress. :)
@thingswecarry7564
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator I agree! Keep up the great content. Hope to be making my own dice as well soon!
@takeachansey7048
4 жыл бұрын
The gun metal with purple dice give me evil magic user vibes
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Oh totally, fits a warlock vibe heavily
@jessicawashington3987
4 жыл бұрын
I do ceramics and the dice flying off at the end is so relatable. I've set one too many almost finished green wear on the wheel only to bump the pedal and destroy it.
@Earendilgrey
4 жыл бұрын
My first time on an electric wheel I threw stuff all over. I opted to use the manual ones in class after that. I am too much of a lead foot for electric.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
We'll pretend that I didn't do it on accident, but rather to show it off >.>
@vanerek
4 жыл бұрын
Oh God, the puns, the awful puns... Please don't you ever dare to stop. In hindsight, the pottery wheel makes a lot of sense, you're adding the consistency of the machine to the equation. OMDG (oh my dragon god), those silver and purple dice are beautiful man!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Couldn't stop if i wanted to :P Glad you like them! I'm pretty proud of these bad bois
@pooyataleb2514
4 жыл бұрын
These sets maybe your best yet
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I was really pleased with them :) I feel like they look professional, and I'm proud of that.
@Jumbojet776
4 жыл бұрын
Holy crap, those are some pretty dice! Also tempted to do this as hand sanding is slowly destroying my shoulder xD
@annedavis3340
4 жыл бұрын
RSI's are no joke, friend. Please don't wait! It's easier to prevent than reverse damage.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Sanding is the worst part of dice making by a long mile. If it can make that easier, it's worth it to me
@JaydotDice
4 жыл бұрын
yeah my thought was spend $200 now and save $$$ in surgery costs later for my wrists. Invest in your body if nothing else.
@Waldhexe
4 жыл бұрын
You could totally make a custom sanding pad where it's a series of circles that get smaller and smaller so you just move in a layer to go down a grit. Save time changing the paper
@saucercrabzero
4 жыл бұрын
I bet this would be a great use for a laser cutter, have very precise concentric circles cut out so there's no gaps, and then you could semi-permanently adhere it to the glass disk
@novahkoo
4 жыл бұрын
no one: literally no one: rybonator: ITALIAN FINGER KISS
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
*MUAH*
@pricklybiscuit
4 жыл бұрын
I like to believe most of the time making these videos are spent on coming up what to say for the intro
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
It's a good 95% of my time editing
@KyleneeBoBeanie
4 жыл бұрын
I used to love making dice, but I have up because I have a joint condition. If I sanded and polished a die, I couldn't use my arm for three days. I have baggies full of unfinished dice, and only 2 finished D20s. I'm so excited about this video because I can get back into the hobby and actually use what I make. Thank you for changing my life!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
This made me smile so hard :) I hope this is what you need to get back into doing what you love. Can't wait to see what you create Kylene!
@CotalCosta
4 жыл бұрын
The animated dice goblin is the cutest thing in the world!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I'd die for him haha
@NygelBurdick
3 жыл бұрын
Man those are some pretty dice... that foil and silver combo was really worthy of all the chef's kisses.
@fealubryne
4 жыл бұрын
Those purple and silver dice are gorgeous, holy crap. And also, now I gotta listen to You Spin Me Round, I have it stuck in my head thanks to you!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Listen to the NSP version, it's a great cover :) or the Dope version if you like metal
@fealubryne
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator Oh nice, I'll check those out. Thanks for the suggestions!
@KhanaHatake
4 жыл бұрын
HOLY MOLY THAT PURPLE DICE!!!!! That ink color was incredible, too!
@machazychaz
4 жыл бұрын
the the opace and foil looks so fucking sweet!!! also at the end the one dice that held onto the spinning tray is a keeper for the sheer willpower it exudes
@ClokworkGremlin
4 жыл бұрын
"Once you take some away, you're never going to be able to get it back." -Rybonator, 2020 Someone frame that.
@emmett_m
4 жыл бұрын
Every day Rybonator adds to his arsenal of dice making tools... what will he add next? A personal resin factory? A 7000 watt laser to etch different numbers in? The ability to bend resin only with his mind? We will never know...
@vedritmathias9193
4 жыл бұрын
Enamel paints, or whatever is used to put the enamel in the numbers. Because enamel > paint.
@spontaneouspentagonalweird7404
4 жыл бұрын
both these dice sets are *gorgeous* omg
@solar_dragon
4 жыл бұрын
I really love that metal colour, it’s beautiful
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it! :)
@yokonamigaara
4 жыл бұрын
The purple set literally looks actively magical :O Its definitely one of my fave sets you've made
@martjanamoon1785
4 жыл бұрын
wow i really love those purple silver dice, they even might be my favourites ones yet
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them :D I am super happy with how they turned out
@gamerliliturra7434
2 жыл бұрын
I just want to say that I got myself a little pottery wheel after watching this and omg my wrist and fingers thank you so much! It works so well!! Thank you for all your videos, many of them have been really helpful in my crafting and dming!
@Tinivee
4 жыл бұрын
I need the pokemon set for a friend....and also myself. Love the creative way to roll the dice! :P
@brunocharbonneau5272
4 жыл бұрын
After the Facebook tease this week I was so excited to see this video. Can say that I have been delighted with it. And hey now you don't even need a dice tower anymore you can just use that pottery wheel. I also want to say that Twintig looks so adorable with his new animation, I kinda hope someday we'll have Twintig plushies.....
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad it was worth the wait :) We'll call this the spinning initiative table. Everyone put their dice on there to roll for initiative at the same time haha. So I have looked into twintig plushes, and we can do it, but the cost was gonna be around 20-25$ each. Not sure if people will wanna pay that. Maybe around Christmas :)
@brunocharbonneau5272
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator I'd even throw some extra money if you tell me it comes with your Twintig voice and short sentences like "Let's play a game of Castles & Crusaders, shall we?"
@TheRompsh
4 жыл бұрын
This man is the reason that I can live through quarantine
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I know this is a joke, but it made me smile either way :) Hope you are having a great day my friend!
@TheRompsh
4 жыл бұрын
Rybonator it’s not a joke I love dice and dnd and other youtubers are quite boring so thank you I can 1 idea for dice it could be a warlock/demon dice
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
@@TheRompsh Warlock dice are totally gonna be coming :) Also, I'm glad that I helped during such a crappy time haha. Have a great day Rompsh!
@TheRompsh
4 жыл бұрын
Thank man and I hope you have a good day too stay safe
@Hopeless_Fool
4 жыл бұрын
This helps a lot. I started making dice but got really discouraged and stopped because I couldn't get a good finish on the sanded side of the dice when the other sides looked amazing. Using the spruce method and a pottery wheel I'll try to get back into it.
@IcsulX
4 жыл бұрын
Ok, for the first time ever I am blown away by the dice I see. Damn I want some of those purple dice.
@JC-ze2et
4 жыл бұрын
I don't play tabletop games, but I love watching you make dice!
@MadMeeper
4 жыл бұрын
Oh my god, the dice goblin got animated, its SO well done!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I needed to be able to show how dang cute he truly is!
@Donovan_Du_Bois
4 жыл бұрын
That purple foil is gorgeous.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Right? Such a pretty color :)
@SkyMineYT
4 жыл бұрын
Holy, that Purple foil set look amazing
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it :)
@shinashayesteh564
2 жыл бұрын
I've got a pinched nerve in my elbow, and so polishing dice was starting to get super painful for me. I got a pottery wheel but wasn't sure how to set it up, so this video was really helpful--thanks so much! I feel excited again now about polishing dice instead of dreading it, lol
@OffbeatWorlds
4 жыл бұрын
Those silver and purple dice turned out so cool!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them :) Thank you!
@CL30
4 жыл бұрын
I would not have guessed that dice making and pottery equipment went together. Nice!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Me either! haha but hey, it works :)
@SlenderverseTrash
4 жыл бұрын
The purple flakes and gunmetal dice oh my god my new favorite on this channel, the color shift paint for them were perfect and aaaaaaaa clicky math rocks make me happy heheh
@MageRights
4 жыл бұрын
Those gun metal dice are absolutely phenomenal - ive been going back and catching up on your videos and just like *chief kiss* all over dude. Also can't help but think the gun foil dice are another one of those sets where just changing the color of the number could change the whole vibe - like makin them green and giving either a WoW-ish or even like Hulk vibe. You're doin amazing and I'm looking forward to more stuff!
@EddVCR
4 жыл бұрын
Holy HELL the cuteness of the animated Twintig at the end just SLAYED ME!!!
@okieo2k958
4 жыл бұрын
That into was great
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
WHEW, that's where I put 90% of my effort when editing haha
@That1ComicGuy
4 жыл бұрын
I could watch you sand dice on the pottery wheel for hours and not be bored.
@IQzminus2
4 жыл бұрын
Saw your Twitter, and just wanted to say thanks for speaking up
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Of course my friend. Hope you and yours are doing well.
@mitchan3763
4 жыл бұрын
Your puns are the #2 reason I watch your videos.
@hiredgoon13
4 жыл бұрын
i work in a metallurgical lab and we wet polish (150gt to 0.05 um) a lot of epoxy (usually with metal samples in it), using very similar setup. our systems use sheet magnets on the platter an a magnetic base plat to hold the pads
@teaganabel950
4 жыл бұрын
Ok now you spun me round with that amazing intro!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Like a record baby!
@necrosylum.l3013
4 жыл бұрын
Oh my. I absolutely love those dice you made for your friend. They are like my dream dice. The cool metal mixing with the dark purple caused by the shadows. I can't wait to try doing that for myself. I've finally got everything i need to make dice like these (though i only have a vacuum chamber not a pressure pot) and i have my own set of sprew molds curing. That you Rybonator for all your videos they helped me understand so much and develop my own way of doing things, you are what i aspire to be as a dice maker.
@ItsTheGofa
4 жыл бұрын
Rybo, you really do just get better with each episode. Those purple dice are to die for (pun intended) and the Pokemon "Silver & Gold" are a fitting tribute sir :)
@lux0rd01
4 жыл бұрын
Both sets ended up absolutely gorgeous
@EsahctheCoyote
4 жыл бұрын
If you get your wheelhead drilled for bat pins, you can use bats (plastic discs made to fit on your wheel so you can take off fresh pots without warping them) with your sandpapers attached so you can swap out grits quickly
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Oh that would be a super great idea :O
@bobboi2807
4 жыл бұрын
I really love the purple flakes and gunmetal colored dice. But when you put the color shift paint onto them, I just immediately thought of Megatron from Transformers.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
That's not a bad thing IMO haha :)
@isabelladeyoung1425
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for linking the pottery wheel!!! I’ve been looking for a nice one to invest in for a while and this one looks perfect! You’re a lifesaver :]
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
It's SOOO freaking nice to have haha. It's a game changer for sure. Hope you enjoy!
@prestonhawkins5782
4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely life changing... In my cart already
@mydeerling1020
4 жыл бұрын
That intro is love!!!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you is love it :)
@fynnleyreader3511
4 жыл бұрын
Hi robynator! I'm not sure if you wanted an answer to this but the reason it's listed as a 9in plate is because potters usually leave a small amount of room on the wheel for the purpose of wiring off their pieces from it! If there's a need to make anything bigger than the plate then there are ways to put a larger plate on the wheelhead! (My poor ceramic teachers are probably shaking their heads at me omg)
@dezkyger2585
4 жыл бұрын
These dice look absolutely phenomenal!
@irishbabe8923
4 жыл бұрын
I bought some crochet hooks with engraved sizing on it that was really hard to read so I totally tried the overfill and wipe off with finger method and now I absolutely love them! This is definitely one of my favorite channels!!!
@steamgoth-lassassin4099
4 жыл бұрын
I would argue what the best Pokemon generation is, but my only excuse is that Gen 4 were my first games (which did have the Gen 2 remakes which I enjoyed) and Gen 7 gets heritage points with me. I absolutely love the purple set! It would make a great set for a magic-based class.
@pjamestx
4 жыл бұрын
I wonder what the advantages of a pottery wheel over a disc sander would be? Maybe better handling of wet sanding? Great video, I'm getting ready to cast my first dice here in a week or two, just getting some 3d printed dice ready, I've been 100% inspired by your channel to give this a try! [edit] Ok, I thought pottery wheels were way more expensive, but they're on par with disc sanders, so I can see the fact that they're designed to handle wet clay/water as being a big advantage!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Your edit kind of answered your own question :) It's all about the wet sanding and variable speed in my opinion. Glad you liked it! Best of luck on your casting :)
@olddaydreams
4 жыл бұрын
The dice goblin is animated at the end!!!! That’s so adorable!!!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I'd die for that cuteness
@azraelfaye
4 жыл бұрын
I reeaaaallly need that purple set
@Adamwinniemarv
3 жыл бұрын
I looked through some comments and didn’t see anyone else bringing it up but you can buy a mini pottery wheel for $30-$40 on Amazon as well. Is really small but it does take up much less space.
@zacpackman9186
4 жыл бұрын
dam those are some lovley dice awsome work as per usual
@rileyplaysanimalcrossing4415
4 жыл бұрын
god the puns in the intro get me every time i needed that today thank you :D
@matthewvinsonhaler934
4 жыл бұрын
those are the coolest dice i think ive ever seen you make!
@MrQuickLine
4 жыл бұрын
Rybonator - on the surface, tehre are those ridges you mentioned, but then the bigger grooves. See if there's a way to make concentric circles of different grits that you can align to those deep grooves. Then you don't even have to remove sandpaper. As soon as it's good at this grit, move it over an inch to the next grit.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
You'd still have to remove it more often, as there is less area to sand the dice on each grit, and so the paper would get less effective more quickly. I totally thought about your idea! But didn't think it was worth the effort to cut them all out like that haha.
@RedCoyote
4 жыл бұрын
Yes! Someone finally says it! Gen 2 is so good and still my favorite Pokémon generation.
@aliceblanchette1291
4 жыл бұрын
to the patron who's name is CTHUWU. you are my hero and I love you
@Kate_Fyria
4 жыл бұрын
As a ceramics teacher several things make me cringe because I'd give anything (other than the couple hundred dollars I dont have) to own my own wheel. However, it's super clever to do this!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Oh I'm sure I did it all wrong haha
@Kate_Fyria
4 жыл бұрын
@@Rybonator, completely if you wanted to make anything out of clay! (Becauae resin particles in clay would be bad for the clay and destroy your piece.) But for a makeshift sanding disk for resin, you did a wonderful job!
@WarlordSh4Dow
4 жыл бұрын
Wow, those dice turned out fantastically! Absolutely love that gun metal colour with the transparency! Glad these turned out so amazingly!
@smallerhermit4289
4 жыл бұрын
you made me collect dice and play D&D (haven't made dice yet)
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the crippling hobby! Haha :)
@hannahosso7435
4 жыл бұрын
Purple and silver die look amazing!
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it Hannah! :)
@mjsimunovich013
4 жыл бұрын
Nicely done. You should make dice that are specifically for a person who’s playing a necromancer character so look like they are bone colored and crimson colored for number.
@fizzledimglow3523
4 жыл бұрын
Hey Rybonator! A complement and a question. First, I admire your work and how you are willing to experiment and fail and show it off so people can all learn. Second, I've done some research and found out that most resin doesn't have fumes- is the type you use special or is the fume rated mask just a precaution?
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like what I do :) Failure or otherwise! Thank you. It's pretty much a precaution. I'd rather people know and be extra safe than not at all. :)
@Akiitsu
4 жыл бұрын
I'm lovin the cheesy puns. Keep it up.
@KoalaMeatPie
4 жыл бұрын
I am imagining a classic 70s-80s sitcom where the wife comes into the garage and explains to her husband "You got a Pottery Wheel!? Why did get a Pottery Wheel!?" - "Make math rocks shiny" *LAUGH TRACK*
@RejectedAgency
4 жыл бұрын
The mini pottery wheels works just as well if you're limited on space, and the kids pottery wheel is a nice budget option.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
I didn't even know that existed haha. Or I would have gone with that :)
@lwolfstar7618
4 жыл бұрын
Omg you were an old school pokemaniac too? Nice! I played blue like 100x i swear. Then gold almost as many times XD oh back to dice, these are as gorgeous as always, and omg WHEEEEE rofl
@MuseEgo
4 жыл бұрын
I love how much your videos have improved and changed since the channel started. I've learnt a ton watching them all and I can't wait to see what you'll cover in the future!
@LucianCiel
4 жыл бұрын
Your intros always make me laugh. 👍
@sib_here_
4 жыл бұрын
I have officially ordered the supplies to start dice making! I found your channel on my recommended and I havent stopped binging since(this was only a few days ago oops) I researched a bunch and am getting everything within the next week! Super excited to start this hobby! Thanks Rybonator for introducing me! (Also your videos are great and very bingeable and I love the puns at the start of every video. Oh and your videos are extremely helpful for getting into this hobby, very well spoken and the links in each video helps alot!)
@andon_RT
4 жыл бұрын
So, suggestion for Rybonator. I've used Acrylic paint to make solid color dice. Since the color-shifting paint didn't work so well for inking... perhaps it would look cool in dice.
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely worth a shot! :)
@nicoleclay8593
Жыл бұрын
Awesome tutorial i have a small pottery wheel I’m gonna try this
@oAlexanderXavior
3 жыл бұрын
I got a pottery wheel! I'm so pumped!
@marclytle644
4 жыл бұрын
Ok... roll initiative. *turns on pottery wheel*
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
"Everyone place your dice on the initiative wheel."
@ManOfTrades
4 жыл бұрын
Those new dice remind me of the power stone from Guardians of the Galaxy! So cool!!!
@alanabop5535
4 жыл бұрын
I love the color choices you went with for the numbers!! I bought the same paint for reinking and realized the same thing about them not being quite as color shifty as I expected, but the're still fun for bright numbers!! Great video :)
@QuizMasterEntertainment
4 жыл бұрын
Now that is taking it a a next level, you are getting close to being able to open up quite a decent store
@greenecrayon
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for all the fun things you do
@DominoGalaxy
4 жыл бұрын
Woah i looooove the silver purple ones :O
@KoalaMeatPie
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for painting in the numbers :-D
@Spiritwingz56
Жыл бұрын
A full sized pottery wheel is expensive, but you can get mini ones that aren't nearly as pricey and work just as well! Keep in mind you do get a lot of flinging water, so I put mine in a box when I'm doing it to help keep the area around clean
@Guest_1300
4 жыл бұрын
Those purple foil dice are absolutely the most beautiful fucking dice I've seen. I honestly want to go to your house and steal them. The transparent dark purple, and then the dark silver sort of metal is just perfect.
@jane_s2020
4 жыл бұрын
Gen 2 is also my favorite
@Tar0B0I
4 жыл бұрын
These are SO GOOD!
@dyerswoad7088
4 жыл бұрын
Those dice are gorgeous! Please do more of the gunmetal/foil dice and show us :) If you are so inclined of course :D I was wondering if the spruce placement was visible on all the dice in the gunmetal (after sanding). Due to the nature of rising and glitter :) Is this something that could be counter acted by putting the gunmetal colored resin in the mould first and the clear second? (And if I've been completely wrong and there is no "movement" in the resin to indicate the earlier spruce placement inside the dice, disregard the last part of my comment :) ) By the way, LOVED your video on testing different materials. I'm a big sucker for testing, organizing and cataloging different things :D
@Rybonator
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them! And yeah there is a small darker circle where the sprue was and the silver moved. The problem with putting silver in first is trying to get a good swirl effect that way, as it will tend to all sit at the bottom, and you'll just have a layer of silver. But if those circles bother you, it's a good way to go! :)
@AlexNZL
4 жыл бұрын
I guess a way around that would be to do it in 3 goes. Clear, then silver, then a little clear to fill the sprue. more work but could give good results
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