The federation never took the cardassians seriously as a threat to them
@AccessAccess
Жыл бұрын
Always presumed the primary federation fleet had their hands full dealing with other issues. If they sent their main fleet to their frontier, other empires like the Romulans or even hostile factions within the Klingons may take advantage of the opportunity. The Cardassians on the other hand were fighting in their own backyard. A lot of the war devolved into troops and ground combat where the Cardassians were at less of a disadvantage. In the end (basically the beginning of DS9) the federation opted for a diplomatic solution since they had little appetite for fighting a prolonged war over several frontier colonies.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Exactly! If I remember correctly war ended during TNG.
@thestanleys3657
Жыл бұрын
In addition to your fleet tactics I'd put together small squadrons made up of maybe 1 Connie and 2 Miranda's to basically engage in raiding inside Cardassian territory mostly targeting war production but also locating worlds like Bajor supplying the resistance cells there to open up more fronts that the Cardassians would have to dedicate soldiers to. Also the disruption of resources particularly food could possibly allow central command and obsidian order to be ousted from power by civilians which could lead to a less belligerent relationship between them and the federation once a peace deal is done
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Starfleet operated rather ships individually. I would not expect more then Excelsior or one or two Miranda.
@gunny419
Жыл бұрын
For the cardassian when the federation came to their border was the most the most important point in their history (up to that point) for the federation it was Tuesday.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Yes. It was literal colonial war. Federation in fact refused to send help. Beside outdated local forces.
@shanenolan5625
Жыл бұрын
Thanks
@davidreeves4556
Жыл бұрын
I think given speeds and sensors just go after military infrastructure and logistics, basically strategic raiding.
@timcirulis5273
Жыл бұрын
You would have to throw in some Nebula classes in this. Run them in packs of five with one running a sensor pod and the others running torpedo pods you could crush any Cardassian fleet out there at the time. They could see any ships way before they were detected. Plus from what was seen in TNG they could easily out range and out maneuver anything the Cardassians had at the time.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
This war happen before Nebula was a thing.
@thegreenmanofnorwich
Жыл бұрын
To me, the technological disparity suggests that the Federation opted for containment, where for the Cardassians it was a serious war. I imagined that the Spock/Sarek conflict might have been a containment policy vs strike and force negotiation policy. There would have been at least New Orleans class ships, and probably other ships that seem to be in a similar lineage (Cheyenne, Springfield, Challenger etc)
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
It would be safe to assume that most ships were from TMP era. More modern ships would be serous threat to Cardassians, even if they were small.
@mikealpha2611
Жыл бұрын
I think that the Cardassians are a third rate power at best a border annoyance. It would be hard to get the scale of fleets you want for any major operations because tensions with the Romulans and Klingons will always take the first rate ships and many if not most of the rest. As the Federation, this means a war with ships that are generally faster then your opponents and better armed but you need to keep casualties light or you will be replaced. Use any Oberth class you are saddled with to ferry behind the lines. The Connie Ambassador and Excelsior will be the cruisers most likely. Connie on scout is still a good option since it is faster than the Cards and has a good sensor suite. Ambassador and Excelsior are going to take my fleet engagements they can win and I would want to mass them. Mirandas would probably run raids into Cardassian space hitting war shipping and infrastructure. The Constellation seems to be a bit open to interpretation but it seems to be on par with an Ambassador or the Miranda whichever it is it will stay in that group. I'm not familiar enough with the Cardassian ships to make an in depth doctrine but what they employed seemed to be best case. Ambush when you can and make it a ground war. This strategy was successful since the Federation did not want to accept the costs of the conflict.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Ambasador would be a endgame. It was one of most powerful ships at the time. Most ships send in the region was TMP era junk. Maybe few lighter modern ships, top. Until late of the war they switch from third rate to second rate power, it is also when Federation finally decided on talks and Cardassians agree, seeing actually good Starfleet ships like Ambassadors.
@AgeCobra
Жыл бұрын
You underestimate the Miranda and it has Pules phaser not mega and most Constrictions were decommissioned then.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
It depend on the model
@daviddunn7784
Жыл бұрын
From what I have read, learned about the border war, is that Starfleet thought they were roughly ahead by 15 to maybe 20 years in most areas. It wasn't until they captured a few vessels later into the ear that this was solidly confirmed. Pretty sure I remember hearing this or even reading it at some point but I'm only like 87.6% sure 😂
@Wedgekree
Жыл бұрын
For a good exercise, look at what the Cardassian objectives were in the border wars, how they fought them, and what you would do in their place. You're OpFor during wargames. How do you go about most effectively fighting and seizing your objectives as the Cardassians? You can't fight Starfleet one on one, they have better sensors and tech than you do by far, and this border is for them a backwater. Their intel will be better than your's on a purely technological level (probes, sensors) but they have no real dedicated intelligence service or assets in the area (You have the Obsidian ORder, they have Starfleet Intelligence). Your ground forces likely massively outgun their's - Federation planets have small garrisons if that that are armed with personal weapons and hand phasers. Even during the Dominion War we don't see them deploying things liek armor, grenades, vehicles, mortars, etc. So knowing that if you take territory you then have Federation civilians which you can use as hsotages and that the Federation has very limited ways to in turn counterattack if you use them as civilian shields and dig in. But that requires you to be able to stage assault forces to Federation planets in the area, gain orbital superiority with sufficient force to invade. There's only so much you can use commando units and infiltrators. You need full assaults to take and hold planets. YOur ships are slow and the Federation can pick them up and engage them and know what you'll be after. So, theoretically in turn the strategic goal is to take and seize territory. You invade planets with large forces, seize an area, and dig in. This requires however being able to deploy tens of thousands of troops to a planet and support for them to occupy it. When you attack, everyone will know what you're doing. These forces are easy to p ick out from long range and every ship within the sector will be en route. So you need to be able to secure the orbit of a planet for multiple days to get your landing force down and the planet secure. With the garrison having sufficient supplies they can't be seiged out - your ability to run them supplies is questionable when the planet is blockaded. So the initial invasion force has the supplies/munitions they have to operate off of for the forseeable future. Starfleet /will/ drive off your ships if they stay in one place. So you need to occupy a planet and dig in quickly and pacify it with a lot of supplies to hunker down - you can't expect the civillians to have things you can seize either. And no supply lines or ability to produce things (you have soldiers, not construction workers). They can provide labor in a highly limited fashion but won't be of any real use. The big limitation that the Federation has is political. You have to understand what Starfleet's political imitations are, how they effect it's deployment, and what the Federation will respond with and how they prioritize and react. This is what the Obsidian Order is. The Federation is a democracy. Keep attention to news broadcasts. You won't be getting support from anyone else galactically. The Klingons are on peaceful terms with them, the Romulans are isolationist. So your goals - seize territory you want to hold, use civilians as hostages to secure your zones of control to hold off counterattack until you can force the Federation to pursue negotiations. That's your (likeliest) strategic win here and what serves you politically. So now that you've figured that out, how you gonna do it?
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Agree. But I do not think big politic was the factor. Romulans and Klingons were still main threat to Federation. It was before the alliance. The main issue that for Federation itself, this border war was fault of Earth colonists, who intentionally settled beyond official Federation border. So Federation council mostly ignored request for support allowing only policing operations. Starfleet in many cases deployed forces under excuse of explorations. So I think it should be common when Federation ships are outnumbered and working alongside ships of settlers. It was literal colonial war comparable to Indopacific. It wasn't when conflict escalated when Federation agree to send larger forces and more modern ships.
@roberthooper77
24 күн бұрын
I would run Mirada, Constitution & Constellation Class ships as wolf packs of 5 ships and Excelsior Class ships as paired units. Ambassador Class ships would operate with 1 Excelsior pair and 1 wolf pack unit in support.
@motaz1975
Жыл бұрын
i dont see any constellation class ships on your video. i see alot of constitutions.
@terrancechilds3049
Жыл бұрын
The United Federation of planets could have won this war in four years if they use the Galaxy class and the nebula class and we all know it
@ErokCherokee
Жыл бұрын
They could have won if they committed their forces to the fight instead of just attempting to maintain a border they claimed.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
@@ErokCherokee The problem was that it not was they border. It is why it was not really war, but border conflict.
@ErokCherokee
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRezro It's their border if they claim it, defend it and are victorious in battle
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
@@ErokCherokee Point of this conflict was that it was not actual border of the Federation. If it would be, then border would be properly secured, with proper response. Maquis were anarchists, libertarians and tinfoils, who basically illegally settled with uncharted border region. What happen was also settled by other specie. Creating largely independent colonies. As result both sides believed to be invaded. Federation refused proper response, so only local forces could provide policing.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
So here is my opinion about Cardassian Border Conflict: It is good example of so called asymmetric war. Initially Federation did have huge! Advantage over Cardassians. In many cases they ships straight could not damage Federations ships. But Federation never truly committed to this problem. The big issue was that disputed territory between Cardassia and Earth were settled not exactly legally, with many colonies founded by anarchists and libertarians. Who did not exactly respected Federations authority, only to run crying when someone kick out them from they loan. Then they remember being federation citizens. Anyway. As result Federation see those future Maquis as responsible for they own trouble. What was absolutely true. Starfleet did try help own people, but they couldn't commit much in the not officially annexed territory. In many cases those were old ships who could be mobilized with under equipped crews. As such somewhat venerable. When Starfleet was playing checkers, Cardassians were playing Battle Royal. Thing is that due to unregulated nature of Frontier Colonies of Earth both sides believed that they are invaded. And Spoon-heads fully commit to this war! Knowing that they can't win in space. They devised many ways to equal combat. First of in some cases they could overpower singular Starfleet ships at least of older types. Secondary, ambushes also did work. If starship didn't rise shield in time. Especially infamous were Kamikaze attacks. Finally Cardassians did have advantage in ground combat. Starfleet didn't have too many experienced marines, when Cardassians as expanding empire have sizable ground forces. And because Federation didn't want bomb own colonies, there was in many occasions chance to defeat federation in the ground. Situation become dire when Cardassians start selling they historical treasures to Ferengi, who at the time have technology sometimes more advanced then Federation. Of course War is a good bussines, so they didn't sell technology itself. But occasionally Cardassians could deploy more advanced weapons and increasingly more advanced ships. Finally they deploy Galor, not exactly impressive ships. But capable to face 101 some older federations ships like Miranda. Situation start escalating, but Federation refused intervention and even question involvement of some Starfleet captains. In the end peace was negotiated. Cardassians realized how insanely powerful Starfeet is. Especially when something like Ambasador arrived. But Federation also didn't want commit on another pointless war, for people who were absolutely at fault. So border was decided splitting disputed territories on half. No one was happy, but it was best solution at the time. Though some colonies were resettled, some refused to move. Cardassian colonies in Federation territory get full Federation citizenship. When those who stay in Cardassia face oppression. But what they expect? Cardassians are fascist dictators and in many cases reason for refusal was petty and ignorant to the threats. Anyway. Though Cardassians attempt to instigate rebellions in Federation, discontented veterans of war and settlers start terrorist organization Maquis, blaming Federation for abandoning them (even if they voluntarily resign from citizenship) and start stealing Federation ships and weapons. What bring risk of reigniting war again. Though Federation was unwilling to move heavy hitters from Romulan and Klingon border, terrorists find work around in form of small fast ships commonly classified as Fighters (even if they are Corvettes). As Cardassian ships commonly lack versatile weapons, focusing on heavy siege canons capable to overpower Federation shields. Though to be clear tech gap was closing and there was risk that Cardassians would use this time to rearm and attack. What they did during Dominion War, when updated ships could face more modern Federation ships. Even if Galar still was unimpressive. Unfortunately for them alliance backfired and Cardassia end crippled. Many years later joining Federation.
@marcokloek2601
Жыл бұрын
I dont really agree with your tactics. I would also use a main fleet of Ambassador and execsior class ships, but with support from miranda class ships sensor and battle variations and a constellation or 2 for Fighter support. The mieanda would also be good for rading in squats of 3 to keep cardassians off balance.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Then it would be end od this war. Ambasado would be end game for Cardassians. Federation for the most part could deploy Excelsior or Constelation and one or two Miranda. Even then Cardassians would need major numerical advantage.
@stevenewman1393
Жыл бұрын
🖖😎👍OK unlike you, If I was in command I would also definitely be using Miranda's and Constellation class starship's as well as the Ambassadors, Excelsiors and constitution class starship's and some destroyer class starship's as well and I would be using the O'berth class starship's to set up my communications relay system to the fleet due to the fact that they are small and stealthy, and to show the Cardassians that we truly mean business by putting more powerful ships into the fold and putting some fear into them knowing truly what they are up against indeed!. Ok and you really need to brush up on the capabilities and the functions of what all these starship's can really do in service in a fleet scenario and so forth 🤔.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
Ambasador would be overkill. When that arrived, it is probably when they decided to negotiate.
@stevenewman1393
Жыл бұрын
@TheRezro Yes the Ambassador class starship's would probably be over kill indeed, But like my once favorite Captain once said I don't believe in an no win senerio!.
@TheRezro
Жыл бұрын
@@stevenewman1393 Yes, but generally they would start showing up, only late in the war.
@stevenewman1393
Жыл бұрын
@TheRezro ,Yes well unfortunately I don't like to lose, Especially when it comes to any kind of battle scenario, See I have more of Klingon and Romulan mind set when it comes to war!.
@dark1810
Жыл бұрын
the federation didnt care and still came away with a unimportant treaty and the most important territory in the area. really all you need to know about the "war" think people really over estimate the cardassians or undermine the federation but this wasnt an actual war not to the feds anyway
@daviddunn7784
Жыл бұрын
Sir the enemies have no actual weapons. We think they are using harsh language and one has a stick.. Damn it, that means we have lost all our Oberth class vessels then 😂😂 (It's collateral damage I suppose )
@trekwars5400
Жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Big_Black_Dick
Жыл бұрын
😀 it's so cool that venom geek media watches ur channel lol u have no idea wat a honor that is 😅
@trekwars5400
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I've been watching his channel since it started. I had a larger secondary channel but I got shut down. Back to making star trek videos.
@Big_Black_Dick
Жыл бұрын
@@trekwars5400 yeah me 2 😀 been watching Venom since he had a couple hundred followers lol im glad his channel blew up
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