Dude, bad open. U need mangle-rake, because shred more damage on bleed target
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
i see the argument, you do the rake to increase the shred, where as the other way, the rake is only increased by the SR. i'll try it both ways and see if i get a bigger spike. hard to monitor without true logs. thanks!
@oldman6333
2 жыл бұрын
I seem to remember doing it this way as well.. mangle rake SR then depending on energy working to get a rip up ASAP… it didn’t matter if it was just a 3-4 cp rip, I just wanted the bleeds going asap. Once I had a target in full bleed I would work towards getting a max rip.. I must admit though it’s been many years since I have played kitty in wrath, so going off the ole memory may not be the best thing.
@tswdev
2 жыл бұрын
mangle-rake has the problem of snapshotting rake without SR. Thats why SR is in there. You cannot forget that WOTLK is the snapshotting expac, its not like TBC
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the feedback!
@chuibeast6509
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikef8929 make a better guide for us since this one was bad :)
@RoliRegenbogen
2 жыл бұрын
A super important hint for playing cat: Have a medical checkup at your doctor to see whether you are susceptible for carpal tunnel syndrome. If you are, don't play cat.
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
My friend used to play cat back in wrath and he got carpel tunnel from it! It's real!
@haldir108
2 жыл бұрын
Are you hitting buttons more often than once per GCD for wrath? Because currently, that's how fast cat goes with powershifting. Does something change about the GCD? Bear and prot warrior currently hit more buttons than that as well(in sunwell at least, where you can't really spend all your rage). Neither of those really have a reputation of being CTS machines
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Not really. In fact, I've noticed that if you ease off the button mash and just let the GCD roll, your rotation stays more consistent. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. But a hard habit to break.
@jacobmanta6028
2 жыл бұрын
You should actually avoid smashing buttons as you might accidentally waste your ooc
@nofuneral6754
2 жыл бұрын
Wrath is when I fell in love with Feral, sadly it was in the ICC raid patch so the tail end of the expansion. I still enjoyed it in Cata and beyond, but I feel like in Wrath is peaked. I'm looking forward to checking it out again.
@cixidelmont1008
2 жыл бұрын
Have a look at the addon called "Feral". I simplifies the whole priority list by letting you know what the best ability to use next
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I tried it out. It has potential but might not be comprehensive enough to handle all logical scenarios. I started modifying it to suit the rotation, but haven't finished. If I get a chance I'll try to tweak it more and see if I can get it matching mine. Thanks for the suggestion!
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Also, I saw the comment in your disc about bearweave/lacerate. If that does become the norm, I honestly hope this does work because the juggling act would be notched up quite a bit
@flowsback
Жыл бұрын
@@griftin Did you ever tweak addon feral enough for wrath? if so can you show us? i did my own basically going off your video, but curious.
@griftin
Жыл бұрын
I never did. I had so much going on, that i felt it was worth putting out there, but had my head in too many other things to stop and think it through. Share your version in our discord!
@davidfence6939
Жыл бұрын
Bear weaving is weird AF. We just didn't use it in Wrath. I mean FBN mod was enough as I swapped from a BC MT to a dps main in Naxx 25. Just a bit hard to grasp with how ingrained the original Wrath dps priority based system was for me. The flow was basically "If this then that. If not that then this..etc". Once you got it down or once you no longer need Feral By Night you were good to go. Ulduar was a blast.
@nuance7183
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome. Thanks for putting this out, was eager for this :)
@jakebradley2517
Жыл бұрын
the text on shred is "Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase shred damage" which means the mangle (add the increase to bleeds debuff) then shred should be the proper opener. you do not need rake on the target to take advantage of the shred. There could be an argument for getting the rake bleed on first, then SR, then shred etc but regardless. the mangle shred opener is good.
@Hudsonwastaken
Жыл бұрын
There is a talent which increases shred damage when there is a bleed on the target (the one before berserk). So only mangle as opener not good. You want to apply both mangle and rake!!
@johndoe-qo8cy
2 жыл бұрын
For Pve spec, why would you go 5/5 Furor when Improved Motw gives attribute increase?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
In my current config, I take both. I dropped two points from feral aggression, as I rarely use FB right now. If I find the crits allowing it in the future I might have to sacrifice furor
@Maxmustermann99150
2 жыл бұрын
Mangle debuff can be brought by other classes espacially in 25man
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
That's true. It will be group comp specific.
@Maxmustermann99150
2 жыл бұрын
Time to wait for nerdegghead, to sim the increase, by giving up this responsability
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. And sims change a lot early days.
@obsess.
2 жыл бұрын
Coming from a hunter who has done melee-weaving in TBC, the amount of people trashing you for talking about bear-weaving is hilarious. 95% of people said melee-weaving for hunters was a DPS downgrade, until the last phase of TBC when the vast majority recognized it as a DPS upgrade. It's hard to do, so the non-minmaxers will give every excuse not to try these new theorycrafted methods. People can play however they want, casually or minmaxing - perhaps bearweaving will be a thing, maybe it won't be: time will tell. Anyway, Griftin, don't listen to the shitters who trash on you for speculating on bear-weaving. All information is good information, more people can test and try it out, and we'll have more data later down the line whether it's worth or not.
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Agree 💯
@robertomcgee5372
2 жыл бұрын
Survival melee weaving hunter was my first and still my favorite class, I thought i felt like I was on to something nobody else was glad to see others were on the same wavelength
@comq01
Жыл бұрын
It was a large dps gain with automated gameplay, basically put cheaters on top. Im glad it got nuked
@symphorine5700
Жыл бұрын
Why are both rip glyphs better than just using glyph of shred and glyph of berserk. Isn't the 5 extra seconds worth it?
@atl126
Жыл бұрын
Should I never ferocious bite in phase 1?
@KaelinGoff
2 жыл бұрын
Is it worth to swap to bear form and swipe / mangle while waiting for energy in AoE?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Doesn't feel like it. I haven't tested it yet though, so 100 feelcraft
@scotlander5846
Жыл бұрын
what's the breakpoint for aoe Vs focusing on one target? for example 3 or more swipe under 3 focus on 1 single target?
@griftin
Жыл бұрын
I've been trying to find this myself. With 3 I've been trying to stack to SR and Rip on target then swipe if I can. With 5+ it's for sure better to swipe. Where the exact line is might be 4. Hard to tell. I know on 3 pull instances, my dps suffers
@frankschwarz408
2 жыл бұрын
Not against bear weaving but I imagine once you are geared enough, your melee attacks would out dps going into bear to get a mangle off as switching forms can interrupt your "swing timer" I assume.
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
they dont' seem to affect swing timer, and the melee increase, also increases maul/mangle. it will probably scale. maybe not. time will tell. honestly it's kinda fun now that i know how to do it!
@TheYoutubin93
2 жыл бұрын
I think the biggest value from bear weaving is saving energy from having to mangle in cat whilst having no energy to dump in cat. My guess is +2-5% dps increase. Not gonna drastically change things.
@bratwurst7308
Жыл бұрын
@@TheYoutubin93 proper bearweave with lacerate onto it is more like 10% increase, might even be slightly more. so definitly worthwhile, although you might lose dps, if you fuck up your cat-rotation due to the weaving. depends on difficulty of boss and playerskill.
@frankschwarz408
2 жыл бұрын
If boomkins have imp faerie fire, are ferals still able to use faerie fire in their rotations to proc omen of clarity?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
No. It no longer procs on FF
@frankschwarz408
2 жыл бұрын
@@griftin can you elaborate? I heard in original wrath, any spell such as faerie fire and bark skin could proc omen of clarity, making the feral rotation even more difficult in skill cap. Can you confirm that original wrath used to have ff proc omen and if they are no longer going to do so? I have not played the beta.
@nuance7183
2 жыл бұрын
@@frankschwarz408 unfortunately for us feral that were used to FF proccing off practically everything, beta has shown FF not proccing off such anymore. It seems to be only melee abilities
@nuance7183
2 жыл бұрын
Its actually one of the main reasons bear weaving is even a thing atm
@nathancasey7712
2 жыл бұрын
@@nuance7183 Omen is proccing off of buffs lol
@tswdev
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you you took my suggestion to put the low time SR in there. Makes a ton more sense doesnt it? A thing to test is if its not better to double mangle for setting SR instead of Shred, this is because Shred costs a lot to use "un-boosted" by SR ... its probably OK though
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I switched to mangle, Rip, SR, TF, shred, Berserk. By ripping early, it boosts shred and gives shred the SR instead of Rip. I'm not 100% that it's best, because you are running less damage on rake on first one, and you have to shred in between TF and SR so you don't cap your rage.
@tswdev
2 жыл бұрын
@@griftin I dont have access to the beta, but from reading wowhead, doesnt look like rip or rake increase the damage from shred, only mangle really. Is that not the case? Also, by using rip you are now consuming your combo points, which is the point of doing anything before SR isnt it?
@RinShock
2 жыл бұрын
@@tswdev Talent "Rend and Tear": Increases damage done by your Maul and Shred attacks on bleeding targets by 20%, [...]
@oddhau02
Жыл бұрын
Rake>Roar>Mangle>TF>Berserker. No other ways to do it if u want to min max. Rake does the most damage compared to shred or mangle, rake does not snapshot, and first tick is 3 sec after u apply, meaning it will get full effect from both roar and mangle before first tick of rake.
@klobs7
2 жыл бұрын
hey can you post your macro for the zerk+trinket+prepot? ty!
@aaronshadowhunter656
2 жыл бұрын
Do you think lacerated would be better to bear weave with instead of mangle if you can keep it up?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
There are people doing both in beta. It's theoretically possible but very hard to maintain.
@bratwurst7308
Жыл бұрын
eventhough it is 2 months ago: yes. lacerate is worthwhile. With 5/5 in Furor you have up to 3 gcds in bearform to use, before you have to go back to cat due to overcapping energy. so you can do mangle, lacerate, lacerate with as many mauls in between as you can afford. Later on, you will only spend 2 gcds in bear, just to keep it up, cuz cat-autohits>bear. keep in mind though: its hard. Very hard. especially on mechanically more intense fights and the gain should be around 3-4%, if executed properly.
@aaronshadowhunter656
Жыл бұрын
@@bratwurst7308 ya I've been keeping up lacerated in my rotation lol I think it'll still be worth in p2 with the 2 set especially but stay in cat as much as possible for omen procs, rn I almost spend more time in bear than cat lol
@Lornor
2 жыл бұрын
Great Video. Where did u get the weak aura you are using?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, Thanks. The weak aura is a custom one I built specifically for testing bearweaving in the beta. I might polish it up and put it out for others to use and I'm hoping to make a weak aura/addon video for wrath as well, and I'll talk about it and others like it.
@Spanakopitaa
2 жыл бұрын
You should show the tooltip of each ability for those who are not aware of the (new) abilities
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I'm planning on redoing this to give a deep dive into different rotation choices, so in that, I hope I'll make the spell more clear.
@TJTbag
Жыл бұрын
Yo, thank you for that! I am new to feral and got a question. What do u do when SR and Rip are still on the target with enough sec left but u got 5 combo points. What u do with them?
@griftin
Жыл бұрын
Shred!
@jordanrundell9962
Жыл бұрын
@@griftinReally? No ferocious bites?
@griftin
Жыл бұрын
You can but with lower crit, it's better to just do extra shreds
@jordanrundell9962
Жыл бұрын
@@griftin thanks!
@TJTbag
Жыл бұрын
@@griftin thanks alot!
@herditama3945
2 жыл бұрын
what level do u get swipe skill for cat?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
71
@herditama3945
2 жыл бұрын
@@griftin oh make sense, i tried in prepatch PTR didnt see the skill on my lvl 70 character, ty
@QWMlive
2 жыл бұрын
During AOE, could you throw in a bear swipe while waiting for energy for a cat swipe? Or will you not have enough rage?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I did do some very basic testing on this, and the problem with going bare is your white damage becomes less frequent because your swing speed is much slower in bear form so the chance of getting an energy gain is reduced and diminishes the value of the gear.
@QWMlive
2 жыл бұрын
@@griftin interesting info. I agree with what you said about button mashing and taking things smooth. I've had much more success trying to keep my energy around 40 and hitting 1 button per GCD just waiting for dots to fall before reapplying. Never feels like you lose control at any point because you always have that backup energy and can focus. Interesting play style that's for sure.
@azzido
2 жыл бұрын
Swipe hype!
@paulwalther5237
2 жыл бұрын
How's feral cat dps compared to other classes/specs? Is it about the same as TBC?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
It definitely improved. We have AOE now and single target is really good
@ondamixtape
Жыл бұрын
Will u make an updated guide ?
@jonathansfitnessjourney
Жыл бұрын
Sadly I’m like 99% sure you are wrong in all your rotations Example AoE Savage roar is 30% damage increase and takes a min of 2 GCDs to put up So it will take 9 GCDs of swipe spamming to make SR swipe do more dam than none - SR fight It takes SR Swipe 7 GCDs to make up for not swiping during the first 2 GCD This actually gets worse the further the fight does as if the AoE pack last longer than your SR than it’ll fall off Also for single target you don’t want to shred unless mangle or rake is in target You want to get SR up ASAP So you prepull with a omen proc into a rake, into an immediate savage roar into a mangle or shred if you have a warrior. At this point if you are below 25 energy you pop tigers fury, trinkets and berserk and shred spam until you have rip Your first rake will be falling off and you reapply it Get 5 combo points again, pool energy until 1 sec left of berserk(should only be 3 seconds left) you’ll prob get an omen proc too and 5 combo point FB right at the end of your berserk. This cuts the energy cost (including extra energy for extra damage) in half not putting you behind in energy generation Now your rotation begins Keep up SR, rip and rake The next step to increasing your dps is learning how to predict energy regen and using moves in the correct time window Because you don’t want to end up with 5 combo points, full energy with an omen proc and a SR and rip on target That’s the worst thing to have happen so you want to continuously not use shreds or takes right away Consider your current energy and combo points your at. Will you be getting an omen soon? Etc If you do get in that position it’s better to use the energy and not the finisher Only use FB outside of berserk when both SR and Rip are above 12 sec
@jones2k750
2 жыл бұрын
Hey good Video! Could you give us your weakaura, i would love it :)
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
It's in my wago profile in the description. Sorry, I'm afk or I'd link it
@Eddd167
2 жыл бұрын
Do you ever use ferocious bite if possible, or is it out of the rotation completely for wotlk?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
The window is very small in P1 but as you get into p2, you should see opportunities. maintaining SR and Rip will always take priority
@Vagitarian01
Жыл бұрын
According to top parsers, the damage per combo point doesn't hold any value. A full FB is less than 2 ticks of Rip, you're better off doing anything else unless you're in the last 2-3 seconds of a fight.
@matthewwagner3337
Жыл бұрын
@@Vagitarian01 So if I get good RNG should I even keep shredding at max cp until my next refresh?
@jonathansfitnessjourney
Жыл бұрын
@@Vagitarian01 nope your are wrong my FB cries above 15k in phase 1 and I don’t have grim toll Once I get that it’ll crit for 20k Rip crits for 4500-5k That’s 4-5 rip tics You shouldn’t let people tell you things without testing them It’s very obvious FB is worth it if you can do it without losing uptime in rip, rake or SR
@jonathansfitnessjourney
Жыл бұрын
@@matthewwagner3337 FB is worth using if you have 12+ seconds of rip and SR Also pool energy for the bite so it has more value for the 5 CP This helps if you have a tigers fury to use right after the FB so you do t lose energy regen I can usually get 3-4 FBs every fight 2 being easy with 1 in open and 1 being when boss is below 6-7% as it’s not worth the dps to refresh rip or SR if boss will be dying soon
@TheRosswise
2 жыл бұрын
Boomkin it is then.
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
Boomies pump in phase 1. I'm sure you'll have a good time
@TheRosswise
2 жыл бұрын
@@griftin It was a joke, I will be playing all 3 specs according to my mood or raid needs.
@Otaconsps
2 жыл бұрын
This is making me think mage isn't a bad choice after all lol
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
mage is a fun class for sure! play what you enjoy!
@albertscardina711
Жыл бұрын
so you really dont ferocious bite at all?
@griftin
Жыл бұрын
I've started to FB during berserk when I've already ripped, and SR is above 10 seconds. Beyond that, the crit just isn't there yet, but it's a judgement call every time
@Schmerz151
Жыл бұрын
Ehhhh this opener is not the most efficient. Rake, roar, mangle is the optimal way to go
@mooncraft3131
Жыл бұрын
Eh performance matters a lot more than an opener. I open with mangle->SR->Tf+berserk just like i've been doing since 2008 and have pink parses on every fight. Granted this opener is more in line for when tf offers a percentage-based damage buff, but suffice to say an opener doesn't matter much and becomes increasingly irrelevant as fight time increases. Even with a 90s fight weaving in bites is far more important than subtle differences in openers which are more aligned to play style than anything.
@yormanvillatoro5872
2 жыл бұрын
no way i can follow that chart for rotation lmao
@saltshak3r358
2 жыл бұрын
How much more dps does bearweaving give?
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
It's hard to quantify generally. It depends on your spec, frequency and gear. On mine, maybe 200 DPS. Mathematically it should be a net gain of 800 damage per weave, I believe. Time will tell once we get log data
@IsmonHimoPKOwnage
2 жыл бұрын
Kinda dumb video. You use shred on opener before any bleeds (rake) are on target and lose damage. You dont say a word about ferocious bite usage, and you talk about bearweaving being a dps up without any sims existing yet (really controversial subject).
@griftin
2 жыл бұрын
I have always done the shred to rake to boost the rake, but I've had other people saying the other way is better and have updated the discord post to reflect that. I do talk ferocious bite I believe and how at my gear level it's a risk fitting it but will be helpful later. I didn't make any claim on how much of an increase bearweaving is, just how to do it. Thanks for the comments, I guess.
@TheYoutubin93
2 жыл бұрын
Chill out my dude. This is a very well thought out and organized video. FBing is almost imposible outside of Berserk with pre raid BiS. The crit isn’t high enough. It’s generally agreed that Bearweaving is in fact a DPS upgrade as there has been sufficient testing in the beta. Executing it properly is another story.
@Elaksomfan
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheYoutubin93 im willing to bet alot of people will fail with the timing on bearweaving. Good players will eke out a pretty small dps increase from it but the average player should probably focus on mastering the cat part of the spec before even attempting to weave in bear
@stevo6178
Жыл бұрын
@@TheYoutubin93 this aged well check the top feral parse nerd
@TheYoutubin93
Жыл бұрын
@@stevo6178 on what fight ? Top feral dps are bear weaving with lacerate and not biting on patch
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