My dad would have loved this video, we owned both a commadore 64 and an Atari 800 at home in the 80's. My dad was a computer nut and he worked for company called digital computers here in Ohio, throughout my younger life until they went out of business. I went to a technical school called ITT Tech through his incuragement and I now work in Telecommunications field in my adult life and I like building gaming computers as a hobby now on the side and I even sell a few. My dad taught me a lot about fixing hardware and doing board-level repairs, I was lucky growing up in the 80's and 90's and having him as a father. RIP pop you are missed!
@Just_lift_anyone
11 ай бұрын
❤🥹
@josephcronin2965
6 ай бұрын
ok so what were your thoughts on the agon system?
@assifmirza130
11 ай бұрын
This is absolutely aimed at me. Had a BBC micro back in the early 80s and an Amiga later on. Studied Microelectronics and worked in the industry before getting into retro computing all over again. The made my own machines from old 8 bit CPUs and old display processors, writing all the software and firmware myself. I would love to see what I can get working on this and see how we can push it. Pre-ordered so I'll have to wait till December unfortunately. I can't wait!
@bluetrepidation
11 ай бұрын
What a match Z80 and ESP32. I hope this becomes ubiquitous as a raspberry pi.
@onyourjackjones
11 ай бұрын
IMO only the 8 bit guy has the following to get his project off the ground to succeed, it has a community of game devs and a big game being made by Dave himself. I don’t begrudge trying, technically this project is better, and nobody really disputes that. I think retro is flowing around launchbox and handheld pocket emulators. I don’t think this is where it’s going. I’m willing to be proven wrong. This project needs a flagship game and to poach some of the dev team from Commander X16, and it needs a tracker music creator, bitmap editors, sprite editors etc. People slate Dave but he churned these out very quickly for the X16 project, he’s a skilled coder. This project needs these things. Also the default 3D cube flickering is a bad show, that demo needs to be deleted from the project and just the double buffered one shown, bad demos shouldn’t be left to try
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
Mike Daily is developing for Agon now :) That's Lemmings and GTA done. And it's way more successful than the X16, thousands sold already.
@TheKnobCalledTone.
11 ай бұрын
There's a huge price difference between the Agon Light and the Commander X16. Some people that have been priced out of the Commander X16 might go for this instead. Others might buy the Commander X16 instead of the Agon Light out of loyalty to the 8-Bit Guy (especially Americans).
@giornikitop5373
11 ай бұрын
@@mwaddamslemmings might be doable, but i believe gta is not. any game with moving screens that needs constant transfers from ram to vram, is going to be a nightmare in agon.
@mwaddams
10 ай бұрын
@@giornikitop5373 The eZ80 would only be doing logic. The ESP32 can do scrolling no problem.
@giornikitop5373
10 ай бұрын
@@mwaddamsunless you can fit the whole graphics of the game in the free psram (i don't know how much is left), i don't see any other way getting something to run at acceptable speeds. Already the very simple examples included, suffer a big hit in speed when something graphic semi-intense has to happen. still no problem?
@nickryan3417
11 ай бұрын
OMG, I have that "Computer Programming" book that's on the table at the start of the video in my collection of "old stuff" that I just couldn't bear to throw away!
@DRONE365DK
11 ай бұрын
It is very "British" or at least inspired by the great and proud history of British homecomputers and gamed - and this is why i am interested in it. I have always wanted a BBC, Amstrad, Sinclair zx spectrum, Dragon. I love rhe story behind the bbc computer made for learning computer via television . Therefor i love the BBC basic for boot. Secondly it uses a zilog processor very close to the one used in zx81 and zx spectrum but with huge improvements . I like the way audio and video features can be updated by new firmware . I plan to buy one . ❤
@GDScriptDude
8 ай бұрын
This is interesting to me in the way it pairs a Z80 with an ESP32 to do the heavy lifting with the ability to customize that aspect of the product.
@spokehedz
11 ай бұрын
I remember that a lot of non-computer tasks had those older computers as the heart of. Things like boiler systems and timeclock for employee punching in and out.
@jonwest776
11 ай бұрын
Wouldn't mind seeing this in action when I'm down at the cave this Saturday.
@IndustrialFaith
11 ай бұрын
Listening to these grognards discuss how they made the Argon do tricks reminds me of listening to old mechanics discuss modifying engines. Same energy! o7
@VulpisFoxfire
11 ай бұрын
I just have to ask...is there an extra deluxe set that in addition to the gamepad includes the branded keyboard and more importantly, the coffee mug? :-)
@bjarnenilsson80
11 ай бұрын
Looks nice, but the lack of hdmi ( I know it's supposed to be a reimagined 8 bit computer ) might cause problems for people without vga displays, which are not exactly uncommon today.ok i googled and is seams adapters are cheap-ish, aybe someone should create a starter kit which bundeks the computer with the adapter.
@lactobacillusprime
8 ай бұрын
Curious if the Enterprise 8bit Z80 computer from the 80s was in any way shape or form an inspiration for this machine?
@mechamania
11 ай бұрын
Not to be a contrarian, but I’d pronounce “Agon” in a way that rhymes with “add-on,” as in “agony” - not that the project brings pain to mind. It looks like a great, little machine. Not Atari 800 great-as the first PC to have separate audio and video chips, plus the Serial I/O architecture that was the first hot-swappable, daisy-chain-able peripheral connector that served as the OG precursor to USB-but really cool, nonetheless. After spending the majority of the summer maxing out my 2021 Atari VCS-with 32GB RAM (OC’d to 3200MHz), a M2 SATA SDD (partitioned into Windows XP, 7, 11, and the Debian-based AtariOS with the Steam app and its collection of drivers-‘cause I’m retired and take awhile to do things, checking out the Agon might be my next project. Thanks so much for the introduction!
@RichardHallas
11 ай бұрын
You’re absolutely right. That is indeed the correct way to pronounce Agon (rhymes with “wagon”), since it’s from the same root as “agony”. But Bernardo Kastrup (its creator) is the only person to pronounce it correctly in videos etc. Absolutely everyone else insists on getting it wrong. It’s already a well-established lost cause, I’m afraid.
@JasonMilner-w4z
11 ай бұрын
Woud love a network adapter for this... Loved BBC basic as a kid and remember coding some ceefax type stuff for it at the time. Would be interesting to build something like bbs over internet for it. Also for me the limited memory is a selling point makes you think harder about how to achieve something in as little space as possible, where as some of the code i review these days goes on for ever. Trying to explain to the devs that it could be tighter usually leads to "but why we have Gigabyte if needed".
@giornikitop5373
11 ай бұрын
fujinet, which btw is an esp32 based hardware and software, is used in many retro machines. the developers mentioned that it can work in just about anything, it's only a matter of examining the hardware and development time.
@wrestletube1
11 ай бұрын
Lots of brands ripping each other off at the same time on console vs computer projects of this programming type. There is also this 8-Bit Guy one at the moment going head 2 head with it.
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
At 350 vs 55 dollar.
@Qyngali
11 ай бұрын
I am curious, why didn't make the GPIO on the Console8 accessible without removing the case? Could have made it like a "cartridge port" or just a covered slot. I can't think of any technical reasons but maybe I just need more coffee. Welll, I always need more coffee...
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
you can print a different case
@EdgyNumber1
11 ай бұрын
Quite disappointed that it hasn't got a port of BBC BASIC V. The line numbers for example are quite unnecessary as you can embed procedure calls within a complete program without the need for numbering. Is it possible to switch off line numbering?
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
I don't think so, there is RENUMBER and AUTO. And of course it's all open source, so feel free to enhance the BASIC 4 version. With the ADL version you get a whoppin' 512 Kb to play with :)
@archibaldbuttle7
5 ай бұрын
BASIC V had to have line numbers too Some editors would automatically hide them away from you, but they were still there The version of BBC BASIC the Agon uses is derived directly from the Z80 source Richard T Russell wrote for the BBC Micro second processor. It is essentially equivalent to BBC BASIC 4. It is still a very capable version of BBC BASIC, and has function and procedure support. A port of BASIC V would be nice, but as it was written for a completely different CPU architecture unless somebody has a lot of time, and a lot of talent, it's not likely to happen Gradually extending the existing BASIC to include features from BASIC V is probably the better approach.
@PaulHockerOnEarth
11 ай бұрын
When I tried to pre-order it said that it could not ship to my address in the USA? Is this only available in UK? Is there a US based company selling these too?
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Heber intend to ship this to all regions as certifications are passed for those areas, for example FCC approval in the US is being sought currently and when it passes US shipping will be enabled. I'm sure they would be interested in finding regional resellers too.
@OtreblaMaslab
11 ай бұрын
Are there any plans to improve the emulator so that it's pre-compiled? I was instantly scared off by how many steps and prerequisites there are to get it working on Windows 😢
@archibaldbuttle7
5 ай бұрын
the emulator has had binary releases for quite some time now
@elphive42
11 ай бұрын
From the footage you’ve provided, I’ve seen a lot of issues with graphics causing some significant slowdown. Will that improve with new sprite commands, or is that a limitation with the hardware?
@giornikitop5373
11 ай бұрын
this thing is a very fast and affordable learning micro, but as for games, unfortunately it doesn't have a real bus. there is no direct access to the vram from the ez80. all is done through a serial bus that, although is fast at 1mbit, it can only send fabgl commands to the esp32, only the esp can control the vram. as it looks now, it's not good for games, only for some very simple examples. but things might get better.
@BenjaminVestergaard
11 ай бұрын
🤪 another 8-bit project with a 32bit coprocessor having 16 times the RAM of the main CPU... Why not just make a 32 bit project that serves the goal of dumping you straight into its development platform... I know that you can launch python into shell-mode, couldn't that be done with micropython? Perhaps add a nano/pico like editor that's available in the u-boot project? The nature of these devices doesn't exactly need an operating system... but the simple bootloader today can navigate at least FAT volumes.
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
I think these sorts of things also exist if you want them. Zero-seconds boot straight into a Python REPL, standard libs including PyGame and PyGL seems like a sweet concept to me.
@SunnySidePups
11 ай бұрын
Das a mad ting, bossman
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
boom ting
@spongeknock7387
11 ай бұрын
Can it run Doom?🤣
@ThisOldChris
11 ай бұрын
For me, unless it's a good replica of an old system, it does not trigger any nostalgia. So I'm not the target audience nor target customer.
@retropalooza
11 ай бұрын
A year ago, you've denied us this piece of joy.....arghhhh
@FindecanorNotGmail
11 ай бұрын
Having a modern microcontroller do USB and graphics is a very sensible choice. That is something I thought that the Commander X16 should have used instead of a costly FPGA. I just wish that it could have a memory-mapped interface to screen RAM and virtual registers, as that would be much closer to the original 8/16-bit programming experience.
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
You could write a little library that let you bang on "registers" on the z80 side and then interpreted the delta of them since the last frame to commands to send over the serial bus. Since there is no graphics hardware at the other end this gives you the same experience.
@jc33353
11 ай бұрын
I much prefer the real hardware approach of the X16 and Foenix as opposed to a microcontroller that makes the CPU (Z80, 6502, or whatever) effectively a peripheral.
@Enzo012
11 ай бұрын
Who's it for? It's for nerds?
@SidneyCritic
11 ай бұрын
Is it just me or is it hard to hear. The ad is clear, but the rest is low and and muffled.
@raggersragnarsson6255
11 ай бұрын
But can it run Crysis?
@androth1502
8 ай бұрын
the fact that we have unconstrained systems now is the reason for the sad state of software in the world. i have a 4ghz 12 core computer with some of the latest hardware graphics acceleration. so why am i getting a full half second delay on text input in microsoft edge while running youtube? it's just awful software.
@stephenwhite506
11 ай бұрын
I find it bizarre that the retro community is starting to frown upon FPGAs. For implementing a soft core processor, FPGAs are so much better and faster than a microcontroller. This is what they are designed for. Projects like this are giving are giving FPGAs a bad name in the retro community with the aid of KZitemrs reciting their doctrine. Yes, mircocontrollers are getting cheaper but so are FPGAs. If they really wanted to make a cheap educational computer, then why the Z80? The ESP32 is so much more powerful than the Amiga. It alone is doing the heavy lifting, without the Z80 the machine would cost at least half the price. For close to £150 that this thing is costing it isn’t really “inexpensive”. It is a lot of money for what is really a £5 ESP32 with a £10 Z80 tacked on, all in a fancy case. Having a modern microcontroller doing most of the work in the computer, in software, with a slow serial connection to a Z80 is one of the slowest ways to architect a system. This may explain that, for all of its on-paper power, the demos don’t look much better than a BBC, let alone the Amiga. You may as well connect the Z80 to a modern PC (or even a Raspberry Pi) via serial and say it's the most powerful 8bit computer ever. Your soft core video/audio processor will then be even more accessible.
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Hi Stephen, the existence of this isn’t a slant on FPGA projects, it’s just it’s own thing. We also love the MiSTer project which is why Heber created the Multisystem, and I’m looking forward to my ZX Next arriving after backing KS2. It’s just another option for people to enjoy if they want to. I’ve seen nothing but positivity towards FPGA based projects. Thanks for watching!
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
The basic Agon Light is just over $50. Same machine. And comparing this to an Amiga is nonsense. There's no dedicated hardware sound and graphics. If you want to do everything on the ESP32 there are FabGL boards for $30.
@TheKnobCalledTone.
11 ай бұрын
If you don't get what the Agon is about, then the Agon isn't for you. Not a criticism, just a fact.
@BreakIntoProgram
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the opportunity to join in the discussion, a great introduction to the Console8 and the Agon concept. It's been a pleasure to work on this project with the team, and it's a personal wow moment for me to see it grow from being a bit of banter between myself, Bernado, and Andy Toone, via a more-or-less solo software project, to this, with tens of developers and hundreds of users. Onwards and upwards!
@flibblemarutan
11 ай бұрын
Q: Who is this for? A: Middle-aged nerds Q: Is this a problem? A: Nope, not really.
@ParallelSyntax
11 ай бұрын
As much as I respect the 8-Bit Guy's Commander 16 project, this thing is so much more accessible and well thought out. Yes it's nice to have one person's idea of what their dream 'modern-retro' computer will be but in making it a reality, financially speaking, it isn't feasible and thus has priced itself out of the potential market and will likely forever be a niche project unless sold in great numbers. Even then it's going to take a lot of sales to even think of making cost-reduced versions. I certainly won't be laying down hundreds on something that will likely only have a handful of programs ever made for it. Of course I wish him luck but I can see it being a dead-end product in the next year or two. At just over 100 quid, this Agon is a real nice piece of hardware for the money. Hell it's like a retro Raspberry Pi. Not much more expensive either. So much more accessible to anyone not just programmers but even just people who want a bit of 80s style computing fun. Well done. I might just bite if I see this being adopted with lots of support.
@chrisainsley3533
11 ай бұрын
I like both projects but clearly the Agon is the more elegant solution from a hardware perspective, and ironically free of the FPGA's that project was at one point allergic to but has now embraced. Once you go FPGA you might as well go microcontroller for your support chips. Anyway - I love the aesthetic of the Commander X 16, I like David's channel, and not a huge fan of the animosity shown to that project. I think anyone creating something should be applauded. I think that a full FPGA implementation of the hardware could bring it down below $100 one day. Let's be happy that we have an embarrassment of riches of neo-retro-8-bit computers and I for one wish both projects and their communities well.
@root42
11 ай бұрын
@@chrisainsley3533Agreed. From a retro-standpoint the X16 would interest me more. From a TEACHING perspective I think the Aegon is better suited. Neither machines interest me personally, though. The Aegon is a bit like a boiled down Raspberry Pi -- MUCH simpler architecture. Truly to make you UNDERSTAND the hardware. It is a bit the true spiritual successor to the BBC Micro, where the Pi is the MODERN successor to bring you MODERN software but a complex hardware and system. The X16 is more to have the nostalgic feel of all DIP ICs, and basically a souped up Commodore system. All those systems have VERY different audiences. I will stick with my vintage Commodore machines... ;^)
@customsongmaker
11 ай бұрын
In the end, the software will determine how useful the machine is. It doesn't matter which is better, only which has better games. I think the X16 will have the more active community making games.
@werpu12
11 ай бұрын
I would not really say this is an 8 bit computer, given that the display processing is done on a computer 32 bit Risc-V processor, but neat project nevertheless!
@root42
11 ай бұрын
@@werpu12to be fair, the video chips back in the day also packed a bigger punch than the CPU albeit with fixed functionality. The issue today is: there are no more CRTCs available. So you can either take a modern embedded GPU, an expensive FPGA or a cheap RISC CPU to implement your own CRTC.
@Slopey77
11 ай бұрын
No HDMI is a dealbreaker in this day and age. If you have a display which accepts VGA (who even has a VGA cable these days beyond enthusiasts?), you're probably already emulating one of the system the Agon is supposed to be. Certainly if I gave it to any of my kids at a code club, they wouldn't be able to plug it into anything, which sort of defeats the point when you can just get a Raspbi Pi. The joystick ports are nice, but that won't bring new users in - seems like a device for people who have 9-pin joysticks sitting around already, who probably have the original computers to go with them. The "who is it for" section sums it up - it's for the people who designed it. For anyone else, there are better, simpler alternatives already out there, which you can actually connect to a modern TV/monitor.
@WhatHoSnorkers
11 ай бұрын
Constrained systems give you a framework for your imagination, and a clear indicator of when to stop... when you run out of memory!
@nickwallette6201
11 ай бұрын
I think this is one of the things that modern community-built micros really misses. Systems with tons of memory, VGA-quality graphics, AWE32/GUS-quality audio, and GBs of storage... are just not very interesting. We have plenty of options for that, and it causes a few problems: First, when there's no practical upper limit on CPU time, memory, graphics, and/or audio, it sets up a disparity between beginning coders and really talented developers and artists. This can be a little bit daunting to newcomers, when comparing their own projects to demos available. But it also means there's a huge delta in the software that's available. You don't know what to expect when you're downloading something -- is it going to be Atari-era, NES-era, or PlayStation 1-era? There's a lot of potential for unmet expectations. Lastly, since there are so many platforms that can match or exceed the capabilities of this, what is the incentive for developers to spend the time required to take full advantage of the hardware? It has to have a user base to make it worth the time to generate assets and code that really show off the strengths, and that user base won't exist without something unique to draw them in. What does this offer that a Command X16 or DOSBox or any of the Pi-based dev platforms don't? Far be it from me to deter anyone from building something, but .. IMO, it would be better for the community to have fewer of these mega-micros available, so that any ONE or TWO of them has a chance to succeed, instead of fragmenting an already niche community. Just my 2c.
@amcadam26
11 ай бұрын
@@nickwallette6201exactly! This is why i can throw 4 cores and a good gpu at the latest fifa game and it still goes choppy on cutscsenes. Lazy programming.
@Hugh_Jurrection
5 ай бұрын
necessity is the mother of creation. In many ways, the limited space really pushes developers to be creative, which is a great way for young programmers to get involved and develop
@WhatHoSnorkers
5 ай бұрын
@@Hugh_Jurrection Absolutely this! Infinite resources make things easy... and where's the fun in that?
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Here are some demos since making this video and how to order: Lemmings kzitem.info/news/bejne/1nqqm4OlemdhrKwsi=7GNRykDQ-v2taLLf Elite kzitem.info/news/bejne/ua9n1auYnpijdXofeature=shared You can order at shop.heber.co.uk/agon-console8-with-black-enclosure/ 500 are arriving towards the end of the year, so ample supply incoming for anyone interested in playing with this project. Thank you everyone who bought the first batch up so quickly, I can't wait to see what people do with theirs! Thanks for watching! Neil
@davidlloyd1526
11 ай бұрын
To be honest, I don't understand the need for these over a RasperryPi. To me, the point of 8-bits for me is the software libraries or working within the limitations of original hardware. Still it's something fun to watch a video about, even though the hardware is not for me...
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
A Raspberry Pi is a fine machine, however even the original Pi it is several orders of magnitude more complex a system than a Console8 (or Agon Light) is. I bought my kids Pis when they were young; they learnt almost nothing about computing from those Pi-based computers, as the Linux-based system was impenetrable to them. I wish I could have bought them a Console8, as it's a much more suitable machine for learning.
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
It's the challenge. A PI is a like Ferrari compared to Agon's Robin Reliant :)
@haydengittins2836
11 ай бұрын
Not for me personally, but it's awesome to see all the things popping up from the collabs between the Cave, Heber and the community. You guys are smashing this retro thing out the park.
@TheStuffMade
11 ай бұрын
Looks interesting 👍 It all comes down to building a lasting community that remains active. I think even the large projects like Spectrum Next and MEGA65 are struggling to maintain active communities whereas the original 8 bit computers like ZX Spectrum, C64 and CPC are thriving with new high quality releases almost every week plus lots of emulators, documentation, tutorials and development tools.
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
A die-shrunk CPC with a turbo/compatible rocker and modern peripheral support would be bangin
@TheStuffMade
11 ай бұрын
@@AndrewHelgeCox There is a bare metal CPC emulator for Raspberry PI 3(+), that will allow you to use USB keyboards and controllers, plus you get HDMI out. And of course you could run it on MisterFPGA, but it's quite expensive.
@gabor222
4 ай бұрын
The good thing about the Spectrum Next and the Mega65 is that even if their community would disappear the machines would still function as ZX Spectrums and C64s with modern features and could use that huge software library. Projects with no backwards compatibility are those really struggle when their community becomes inactive.
@jennyd255
11 ай бұрын
This is a GENIUS level project! I cut my teeth in the 1970's programming in Fortran and Forth working in laboratory instrumentation. I will definitely buy one of these soon. In fact I have a very specific rather exciting (to me) educational application in mind for this (I am also a fully qualified science teacher). The one add-on / enhancement that would be essential for me would be the addition of basic ethernet capability - nothing fancy just a standard RJ45 port with the required support hardware. That would expand the possibilities for this little gem by a whole order of magnitude.
@magicknight8412
11 ай бұрын
I do like the concept, but not something for me. Got enough to be getting on with my Next, raspberry Pis and a homebrew console which i have had for years and barely touched !
@cryptocsguy9282
11 ай бұрын
5:58 ez80 is an absolute beast as far as 8bit CPUs go , so much faster than the 3Mhz z80 from the 80s.
@carledwards9477
11 ай бұрын
A device like this has made me not only want it, but motivated me to get it, no matter what. It makes me think back to the days when I would make my Dragon 64 do things that blew MY mind. I need it to give me that kick again. I am most certainly going to do everything in my power to get it, regardless of the awful exchange rate my country has. This is something that is just too good to miss out on.
@interghost
11 ай бұрын
Very cool idea, but can not see the need for it? Seems strange to want to code Basic on a new console that no one has. Rather than on a well known 8-computer or system? Or even to stay coding on 8-bit? I guess its a fun hobby, but wont ever be popular.
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Check 25:55 - Who is it for?
@interghost
11 ай бұрын
@@RMCRetro Yeah I watched the full video and I heard what was said by the guys, but it still doesn't really answer, why is it needed? They are talking about keeping it basic, and allowing you to understand low level Basic coding etc. and something to play around with. All these things can be done on almost all 8-bit computers or emulators. I understand the fun idea behind it, and another cool bit of kit to try and learn. But again... it adds nothing new, or different to whats already around. - Im not being rude or just dissing the system. Was just a point I raise when I see these type of systems come out... and mostly fail to reach a wider audience.
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Fair enough! These things all need a community to keep a buzz about them and encourage people to share and learn from one another, so it will be interesting to see if that develops.
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
@@interghost It gives anyone a chance to create a NES like game, without having to know assembly. The only other systems I know that can do this are the CMM2 and X16 (and maybe Foenix).
@interghost
11 ай бұрын
@@RMCRetro Very true and I really do hope it gets that support. Its a cool idea for sure.
@jedivino
11 ай бұрын
glad you liked my Draegerman! As the maps are random procedurally generated occasionally the granite can encompass miners. yes i could fix that but rather leave it in as a life lesson that not everyone can get saved in this world😂
@JeffBilkins
11 ай бұрын
Let's be real, the first thing anybody is going to do with it is the print "hello world" loop.
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
5:05 - real talk
@GoodPunk
11 ай бұрын
Looks cool. There's nothing stopping developers creating a front-end to start games without having to go to BASIC, right? So you could have some kind of launcher, that starts automatically from the SD card and let's you start (compatible) games right from there. Without the need for a keyboard. That would be neat for an actual console experience. :)
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
You can change the firmware and make it behave like something entirely different if you want, it's very hackable
@ukcroupier
11 ай бұрын
Pico8 sold over 1 million copies, now we have an actual hardware fantasy console :)
@MogensBohlPedersen
11 ай бұрын
A very nice review of the Console8 and all Agon SBCs!! My console8 is shipped today, but is has to get through the Danish customs (it will take 1 - 2 weeks). For me it is not the games which is the attraction (the only game I had in the mid 70s was a Moon lander program on my Texas SR52 programmable calculator), The challenge for me to learn how to code in ez80 assembler and maybe transfer code from the UNIX/Linux world to an 8-bit Agon . I have started from scratch and written some sketches in BBC basic and hope later to transfer for instance astronomy programs to the Agon family .You have a very important point that all the software development which is mentioned in your video works on all Agons (Agon Light, Agon light2, Agon Origins and now Agon Console8) 👍👍
@joecan
11 ай бұрын
I feel the Console8 represents the high water mark for retro-like computing on modern hardware. This thing actually delivers without being a monstrosity from size and complexity perspective. Well done and kudos to the team!
@paulscottrobson
11 ай бұрын
And it's beer money - well almost. You can buy one just to see. Most of the other machines are 3 figure expenditures, or not easily available.
@ParallelSyntax
11 ай бұрын
Exactly this. And great value too for what it is.
@alexandredevert4935
11 ай бұрын
The hardware design is simple, to the point, based on massively available and cheap chips (hahem no FPGA) and it runs an old proven OS and Basic implementation : excellent job ! BTW Wolfenstein on steroids (textured ceiling/floors, maybe voxel sprites) seems doable
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
Doom already runs on this microcontroller with 4 player local network play (over I2c iirc) and sound at a healthy frame rate and resolution.
@OnlyEpicEmber
11 ай бұрын
I’m only just turning 25, but I would love one of these. I’ve always been obsessed with retro gaming and hardware, so I’d want to get one of these to finally write my own games and maybe even software and, potentially, help with adding instructions ands possibly an operating system for this thing. Should be a lot of fun!
@cryptocsguy9282
11 ай бұрын
@EpicEmberOriginal Glad i'm not the only 25 year old who wants this and for the same reasons 😊
@ladams391
3 ай бұрын
@@cryptocsguy9282 I'm 27 but that's still young enough that the original wave of 8 bit home computers are old enough that if they were people they could have been my parents so count me in, as well. I firmly believe that there's a certain magic to the 8 bit (and later on, to a marginally lesser extent, the 16 bit) era of hardware, that it's not just nostalgia. For a long time I thought I was alone in being a young person who was born into a post-64-bit world with a deep fascination and love for these old machines but I've been hearing from and meeting more and more people like us, and it makes me believe that there's something special about 8 bit computers in particular, maybe the simplicity of the architecture or the constraints that mean you're necessarily always working close to the hardware, that transcends time and resonates with all those who have an interest in computer systems and the hardware they're made from.
@googleboughtmee
11 ай бұрын
Ah, BASIC, that's what you use to insert data statements full of machine code isn't it?
@PaoloFabioZaino
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video! I like the Agon, I think it's a cool project (even better in the Console 8 package!). However, when it comes down to develop Retro-style code, I always wonder, what's wrong with running RISC OS on a Raspberry Pi? I mean RISC OS is a powerful Retro OS (powerful for the 80s, not for modern days), the raspberry Pi is understandable enough (probably the only relatively obscure part if the GPU, but that is not relevant when using it with RISC OS) and developing games in BBC BASIC on an fast ARM is way more fun than on a 14Mhz Z80. Not to mention that, obviously, BBC BASIC on RISC OS offers full inline ARM Assembly and there are ways to support even NEON extensions, so one can go from limited to unlimited. So for me, I have my ideal retro platform already and works abolutely great for retro stuff.
@domramsey
11 ай бұрын
It would be nice to have games distributed on physical media with nice packaging and cover art. There's something about putting a disk/tape/SD card in and manually loading a game that just makes it more real.
@aw34565
11 ай бұрын
This machine runs Richard Russell's port of BBC BASIC, written when he was an engineer working for the BBC for the Beeb's Z80 second processor rather than Acorn's original version of BBC BASIC written for the 6502 by Sophie Wilson. Richard is a really interesting guy who also helped write the original specification for the BBC Micro. Maybe RMC could interview him?
@BreakIntoProgram
11 ай бұрын
I'll second that. The code is lightly massaged to work with the Agon, as the original (and now open-sourced) Z80 version was for CP/M, so graphics and sound needed to be added back in, along with changes to file I/O, etc. Z80 can be a difficult language to work with at the best of times, yet Richard's code is a joy to work with, despite the lack of comments! I'm currently working on a customised version for the eZ80 that can use the full 24-bit address space. Almost done - one bug to go.
@youplaboum
11 ай бұрын
Hi, coming from Locomotive Basic that I used on Amstrad, there are a few differences that I think would be interesting to implement. Mostly aliases for VDU commands, but maybe other too. Would you be interested in implementing some of them into Agon Basic? Here's an old article on the differences: www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/5/52/Bbc-loco.jpg
@Cherijo78
11 ай бұрын
I have really mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it's really cool. On the other hand, the market is already saturated with so many forms of basic, and meeting to learn the ins and outs of each particular variation is already time consuming. There's the original retros, the replica retros, and there's a whole slew of independent pseudo retros like this out there already. Already. I'm not sure we needed another one? Thus, I have very much feelings. It is a cool project to be sure, but I'm not sure what the target audience is.
@charlesjmouse
11 ай бұрын
This looks like a genuinely fantastic addition to an already excellent system. There is one thing I would dearly love to see incorporated in to the design, if not routinely implemented by way of a physical connector: A *proper* expansion bus! I may be wrong but AFAIA the 'expansion' for this system is GPIO only - very useful for what it is but no good at all if one intends to design hardware add-ons... which I would - the very first thing I'd make is a RC2014 expansion bridge board to go along with an Argon CP/M. If this design at the very least had a documented expansion bus, even if not implemented by default, I could roll my own version with an expansion bus happy that my pin-out would follow some 'officially sanctioned' layout... ...better yet if there was an unpopulated header on the official PCB that could be used but otherwise not add to the cost for those who didn't want it. ...some years ago I designed and made my own eZ80-based computer fundamentally compatible with the RC2014 and Amstrad PCW - it's bus was a superset of the PCW expansion bus so it could run as a stand-alone CP.M machine, an Amstrad PCW accelerator, or with a simple bridge board as a super fast RC2014 compatible - I got quickly bored with it because I'm much more in to hardware than coding so the system was no fun to play with having no software development behind it. An Agon system that delivers basically the same functionality but with a community behind it would be much more fun.
@StartupSound
11 ай бұрын
Hi Neil, did you manage to bring in some more help to give you a hand with things in general? I don't mean to be intrusive, it's just that you've been looking somewhat tired, and as you mentioned that need in the past I was wondering if between the channel, the museum, the lectures, the workshops, the charity calendar, the podcast, etc. you'd maybe been stretching yourself a bit too thin. Not my business to actually know, just checking in. Thanks for the great content
@RMCRetro
11 ай бұрын
Hey thanks for checking in on me. Yes I do need to think about more help and yes I’m putting in some long hours (no complaints!) to try and get to that point. Hopefully I’ll get there soon. The usual challenges of trying to create something special I’m sure!
@jann3109
11 ай бұрын
I would properly use it for coding games in BBC Basic. The games that I always wanted to make in the 80s with the BBC Micro, but were not able to because of the limited computer power and speed. I love BBC Basic and the thing I am mostely looking forward to seeing in the near future, is are what games are possible to do in Basic whit this powerfull machine. I would also love to see games like ELITE (properly not doable in Basic though). It could be absolutely cool if it would be possible to load old BBC Micro games into the machine and run it, but this is not an option I understand - but it could be pretty awesome 🙂
@curiousmind4870
5 ай бұрын
Congratulations to the Team! What a beast you created Bernardo, it's marvelous. Thank you all. This computer has left behind, by far, the rest of the new 8 bit coumputers (X16, Next, etc). There's so much power and flexibility. When I can have one I'll try to make something like the game I enjoyed most on the TI 99/4A, Parsec.
@isaactanner6403
8 ай бұрын
Think that flexibilizing the Basic Version, whould reach other retrocomputer fans around the world… Ive never heard any thing about BBC micro !! Altough i enjoyed MSX, COMMODORE and Brasil Sinclair clones !!! What about to launch MSX2 , COMMODORES ETC BASIC and VDP RESSOURCES ??
@RetroSegaDev
11 ай бұрын
I love the concept and think they've done well with the price point.
@pw1169
11 ай бұрын
Looks great! The default to the BASIC prompt is the killer for me. This language is heavily outdated and not used anywhere in industry anymore, so it's DOA for education. It would have been better to start straight at a C prompt (Like TempleOS) or any other more modern scripting language (Lua possibly). This way you get modern programming in a resource constrained environment, which would be perfect for schools, universities etc. But well done, i'm sure it will be very popular!
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
Or Micropython, which is what education-focused products do use. Thanks for the intro to TempleOS though!
@TheKnobCalledTone.
11 ай бұрын
Upvoted just because you mentioned TempleOS. RIP Terry A. Davis.
@paul_boddie
11 ай бұрын
It's not just about BASIC not being used in industry: the claims about it being good for education are being overplayed. Certainly, those of us who grew up using BASIC got a lot out of experimenting with writing programs and exploring the systems we had, and that is a nice-enough reason to do something like this. But at the point in the education system where students are going to want to study the whole system from bottom to top, introducing them to everything from the operation of the CPU, interrupts, low-level input/output, and so on, educators were traditionally rather hostile to BASIC. Having witnessed this myself, it occurs to me that such hostility may have been informed by educators having recently been seeing several years' worth of students who had spent a lot of time at home and at school writing BASIC programs for microcomputers and then entering higher education and thinking they knew it all. Those educators found that they had to get students to unlearn bad habits, and some students ended up dropping out, either because computer science was not the computer studies they had done at school or because they felt they were wasting their time. People also forget that many microcomputer users were eager to use more sophisticated languages, and the likes of Apple and Acorn tried to shoehorn various other language suites onto their machines, arguably hitting the limitations of the rather deficient 6502 architecture. The Z80 architecture may have been better suited to such products, but throughout the early 1980s people will have had their eyes on upgrading to things like the 68000 just to be able to use more capable languages without quite so many compromises.
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
@@paul_boddie i think a great deal of the hostility towards BASIC comes from the dominance of Microsoft's 8-bit BASIC. That was rather primitive, and did not support many simple structured programming constructs like functions and procedures, so programs written on those machines were littered with GOTOs and GOSUBs and as a result were generally poorly written spaghetti code. Users of MS BASIC had no choice but to develop "bad habits" if they wanted to get anything done. BBC BASIC on the other hand had better structured programming facilities. Since it included FN and PROC, one rarely needed to resort to "bad habits". It is far more of a "modern" language than one might expect if your background was with a C64 or an Apple II. It's integrated assembler allows easy access to low-level CPU operations. As for the Agon platform, yes, it can boot to BBC BASIC, but you're not restricted to that. There's other interpreters and compilers available.
@paul_boddie
11 ай бұрын
@@archibaldbuttle7 My experiences were in the UK education system where many people would have been using BBC BASIC, although there will have been plenty of people using, say, Sinclair's Spectrum BASIC. Although BBC BASIC, as experienced by many people, provides procedures, functions, local variables and better control-flow constructs than many run-of-the-mill microcomputer BASICs, it still didn't meet the threshold that educators had set, which was pretty much equivalent to Pascal. Acorn clearly understood this and provided a standards-compliant version of Pascal for its 8-bit line-up. I can easily imagine many of the same realisations playing out with these retrocomputing remakes, at least if their creators are willing to learn from history.
@deagt3388
11 ай бұрын
BBC Micro wasn't a thing on continent but ZX Spectrum 48K was and it has been my first comp (C64 C second) but if I understood correctly Agon could be Speccy with another BASIC.. ;-)
@CheryllTassone
11 ай бұрын
Retro fun and educational as well...I like that aspect of it.
@Ensign_Cthulhu
11 ай бұрын
Hey, this is a bit of a Frankenbeast. BBC Micros used the 6502 processor, and now this is running a Z80.
@p_mouse8676
11 ай бұрын
Really great project, yet the practical side of me is a bit confused why not just running everything on the Esp32, since it's more than powerful enough to do so.
@mwaddams
11 ай бұрын
Cause that would be emulation. Just use a PI for that.
@p_mouse8676
11 ай бұрын
@@mwaddams give it a name you want, the end result will be practically the same, especially with so much overhead. As far as I understand from what is said in the video, big parts are now emulated as well.
@AndrewHelgeCox
11 ай бұрын
Yeah, if you implemented the basic for the esp32 directly there would be no emulation and it would have identical characteristics. People could write basic or xtensa / RISC-V assembly just like they can write basic and z80 assembly in this arrangement. I think a lot of uses could be found for a few megabytes of RAM instead of a few kilobytes and that would still be pretty limited.
@p_mouse8676
11 ай бұрын
@@AndrewHelgeCox that was basically what I had in mind as well.
@paul_boddie
11 ай бұрын
@@AndrewHelgeCox And there is a portable version of BBC BASIC which, if I remember correctly, Richard Russell was persuaded to develop instead of messing around with assembly language implementations for specific architectures. So, running that on the ESP32 would give the retro experience. There would only be a need to rework the assembler if someone hasn't already done so. Of course, people did use BBC BASIC on the Z80 back in the day, but shoehorning a genuine Z80 device into something like this arguably adds little meaningful authenticity. BBC BASIC was also ported to a number of other architectures back in the day, too.
@michaelstoliker971
11 ай бұрын
Derives from the Greek root word for strife and agony? LOL. In all honesty, I've always wanted to use BBC BASIC. Some would argue that a more modern language might have been a better choice. I think that some modern languages are so stuffed with options that it distracts from the core ideas in programming languages.
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
What's nice is that it's BBC BASIC, and not one of the MS-originated BASICs that appeared on other 8-bit machines. Acorn put in several good features that allow for better more structured programming in BBC BASIC
@CFalcon030
11 ай бұрын
I can't think of an accurate translation into english. Strife is much different, it would actually be dieneksi in greek, and agony is actually a derivative word that inherits some of the meaning. It would be more appropriate to give it a multiword meaning like, the effort you put in and the struggles you face in order to reach a certain goal. It would also depend on the context, for example the olympic games are the olympic agon(e)s in Greek and a football match will also be describes as a football agon(as). So yeah not a good translation, but I think the choice wasn't a bad one. BBC BASIC is brillant. I had a chance to code in it during university, even though we were long into the PC era, the BBC micro was still used for the lab setup, which was cool. But I don't think I can code with line numbers any more.
@frankowalker4662
11 ай бұрын
What's got my attentoin in the fact that with BBC BASIC I could use the built in Assembler, (which I have used on my Electron), with the Z80 OP Codes, (I'm used to programing machine code on the ZX81 and Speccy). It's a pitty there is no price yet on the bundle package.
@JohnSmith-xq1pz
11 ай бұрын
But can it run... 🖐
@edtruthseeker3337
5 ай бұрын
I ordered my Agon today from the UK. We didn't use BBC BASIC much here in the US, but I am going to learn it at 57 years old. I started out in the 1980's usinga TI994/A. In 1986 as a young man in the Air Force I bought a Commodore 128. I eventually bought an Amiga 500. I am looking forward to having some fun with the Agon.
@oldschoolfoil2365
6 ай бұрын
Can it Play Chess? 64 square checkerboard? all i wan't to know
@snakefriesia6808
11 ай бұрын
i would like to see games like Dune II , Midwinter , Maniac Mansion or Carrier Command be remade in 8-bit. This might be THE system to do it on, tho not by me.
@BreakIntoProgram
11 ай бұрын
Funnily enough I was thinking about how difficult it would be to port the SCUMM engine to it.
@oldguy9051
11 ай бұрын
Maniac Mansion and Carrier Command were available for 8-bit micros, though. The C64 version of Maniac Mansion is very good and well known.
@TerryDawson
4 ай бұрын
The console looks very interesting, and I'm very clearly target market. The video addressed pretty much all of the technical questions I had. The remaining question I have though, is where did Steve Sims get that shirt?
@RMCRetro
4 ай бұрын
I asked Steve and he says it came from here: www.qwertee.com/
@st3ddyman
11 ай бұрын
I really dislike the idea of the soft core processor. You actually don't need to use the Z80 at all, so in effect it is no different that any other embedded board like a Picchip, Pi etc. If the video and sound was implemented this way, then it should have had fixed modes and fixed functions. Limitations are what defined early computers and created the personality they had. Also, the interface to that Pic for Video and Sound is over a serial channel.
@johnwilliams7999
11 ай бұрын
really great video, very thorough with some great guests. Well done!
@simonstapletondotcom
11 ай бұрын
This is ace. Can't wait to get one.
@CooChewGames
11 ай бұрын
I did get one, though it still cost a fair amount being based in Melbourne, was very happy with it and had to spend a bit of time working out that the BASIC commands need to be in upper case... was so like getting a computer when I was growing up 😀 I would like to spend some time on it and this video was really inspiring.
@Deadguy2322forreal
11 ай бұрын
But does it have genuine Sanwarrr parts?
@TheOnjLouis
11 ай бұрын
As someone who used BBC’s in the 90’s in a school for the blind, this really takes me back, so my question then becomes, what happens if I issue: *fx5,2 V.2 By rights, this *should* allow all screen output over serial, to which we’d connect a speech synth. If that worked, I could seriously have fun getting back into basic programming. I wrote a terribly written text adventure game which showed you all around my school at the time. That was about the limit of my programming knowledge, but I had hours of fun during the weekends working on the thing. Would be very amusing if ‘*roms’ showed the old Wordwise word processor from June 1989. Way too many memories running that thing…
@paul_boddie
11 ай бұрын
I guess it depends on the MOS implementation. *FX calls map directly to MOS functions, so there would need to be a similar mechanism to change the output stream to send data to other destinations (or the input stream to receive data from other sources). This is actually an area where the implementation could be friendlier, offering a less arcane set of commands that effectively leverage the same underlying functionality, which I think is something that the Commander X16 people have tried to do with their own Commodore-inspired system.
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
MOS on the Agon is only very loosely inspired by Acorn's MOS... there's quite a lot of differences. No *ROMS for example, yet. MOS itself doesn't implement *FX calls - instead a limited selection are available inside BBC BASIC. As *FX 5,n selects the printer port, and there are no printer output ports available on the device, it's not been implemented. Similarly VDU 2 is also not supported, as without the ability to connect a printer that's also kinda meaningless. As it goes, all VDU calls are sent over a serial link anyway - that's how the VDP is connected to the eZ80. Essentially all output on the Agon platform goes via that link. 🙂
@GarryGri
11 ай бұрын
Hmmm, why do I want to write a simple GUI OP SYS for this? Something GEM like... But still, at basically twice the price you can get an Agon Light for, I not sure I'm convinced of the benefits. Having said that, would I use it if I had one? Absolutely! So, am I right in thinking it's native eZ80 Assenbly you can embed within the BBC BASIC? And not 'emulated' BBC 6502?
@archibaldbuttle7
11 ай бұрын
BBC BASIC runs native on the eZ80, and is not emulated. It includes an inbuilt Z80 assembler. As for running a GUI, pull requests to add mouse support have recently been raised. That will work straight out-of-the-box on a Console8. For an Agon Light you'll need to add a PS/2 mouse port to the appropriate pins on the GPIO connector.
@AcornElectron
11 ай бұрын
1:12 none of the above 😏
@Swenglish
10 ай бұрын
I'm not sure why I can't find this quote I remember reading from Douglas Adams (I'm almost positive it was he who said it), but the gist of it was... Computers are very good at being bad students. In order to get them to do anything, you have to get them to understand it, and in order to get them to understand it, you have to break it down into lots of very simple instructions, and at the end of this process, you often find that you've come to understand it better yourself. That's definitely not the quote, but that's the general idea of it. This project seems, and I mean this as a compliment, like a bad student, in a way that most modern computers are not, and therefore probably an excellent educational tool.
@nigelborrington9232
Ай бұрын
I received my Console 8 about two weeks ago, I just wanted to say how pleased I am with this system/project!. I have been looking for many years for such a small accessible computer and have finally found what I have been looking for, Great project! Thanks to all !!
@allluckyseven
11 ай бұрын
In some ways it seems that this is what the Raspberry Pi wanted to be and was for a little while... But this is much more a hobby project than what the Pi is now. Less of a commercial product, I would say, more something that people pour love into. I'm very curious about its capabilities and am dying to see what you talented programmers (and artists!) will develop for it!
@raggersragnarsson6255
11 ай бұрын
Seriously though. I love the concept, the great people involved and the reasoning behind it. This is not an ad, it's a dream brought to life from the love of such ideas, which you can tell from the passion and sheer talent displayed here. Do I want it? Yes. Will I buy it? Probably yes if I can get it. Will I use it? Probably twice then put it on a shelf and wait for true programmers to make amazing software for us to install and use like we used to. Such an amazing, practical and educational tool for many generations to utilise and learn from. We shouldn't forget this kind of knowledge and as time has already told it leads on to greater things for many people. I imagine the Pi community will love this too. I love this idea more than anything I have heard of in years. Imagine if schools took this on instead of being so lazy with today's easy and less informative technology. This would get to the guts of the machines yet again to drive inovation. I'm in love with it all. Good luck everyone so, so much! Excellent.
@krum1985
11 ай бұрын
I think projects like these are really cool. It's not really for me, but hopefully, it's for enough people to make it a viable thing. I love going back and playing around with the 8bit machines from my childhood with emulators, so I'm interested in playing around with an emulated version of this 😊
@kenmys
11 ай бұрын
I understand it's really days. When it comes to consoles though, nothing speaks louder than a killer app. When the design dust settles, I look forward to seeing what it can do.
@SaschaRobitzki
11 ай бұрын
This is the true Commander X16.
@iggienator
11 ай бұрын
It‘s not for me but I love seing projects like this
@DAVIDGREGORYKERR
5 ай бұрын
Why didn't you recreate a MEMOTECH MTX512 with newer components with at least 512KB of RAM a better Graphics subsystem.
@SamTaylors
11 ай бұрын
What passion the team has! I love the enthusiasm and the energy and yet I don’t think this is for me. Personally what I loved about my C64 and the my Amiga was figuring out ways to make them do things that no one thought was possible. The constraints of the hardware were the catalyst for the creativity. With the Agon the challenge is that nothing is final and there’s no real software yet. But fundamentally the system is defined by an extremely powerful modern RISC-V processor which does all the heavy lifting, and then a tricked out Z80 to orchestrate. That feels like a very different proposition and the fact it boots to BBC basic doesn’t change the fact that this is fundamentally a different breed of cat to the 8-bit systems of old. But I wish the project every success and it will be great to see what comes of it. Hope there are regular updates on the channel and thank you for bringing this project to a wider audience.
@thegardner80
11 ай бұрын
All right, meet you all in the schoolyard for an argument about which retro console is the best! The Commander X16, the Agon-8, or the venerable pico-8!
@bellissimo4520
20 күн бұрын
Z80s (or a modern variant of them) are still produced? That alone is pretty amazing to me...
@David_JA_Noble
7 ай бұрын
What is the basic editor like? Commander 16 has improved on the old numbered line system. Look at Fuze basic on a raspberry pi: that’s how it should be done
@jimwilliams1536
11 ай бұрын
This is for those "kids" who spent a week with a ZX Spectrum on so they could program the birthday cake with music and animated candles.. The same kids who were subjected to databasing on BBC micro's at school.. For those who know the magic of DIR. Flynn Lives!! He's just been playing Elite.
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