Welcome to Free Open Source Software, Tormach! PathPilot is LinuxCNC. Tormach wrote a new front end for it. There were already a couple of open source user interfaces including Axis that most people use, and Touchy which is used for touch screen operation, so they had plenty of open source example code to examine or cut-and-paste. LinuxCNC automatically runs Python scripts if they're loaded, so I already have the rough equivalent of the PathPilot conversational programming environment, although it's definitely not as pretty as what Tormach has done with PathPilot. It looks like Tormach made some very nice graphics to make it obvious what's being done or what data is needed. It's considered good netiquette to release code developed for open source back to the community, but I'm betting that Tormach won't be doing that. It's a bit like someone inventing the car and posting the plans online for free, and you inventing electronic ignition and claiming the car and electronic ignition as your work and your intellectual property. Your familiarity with PathPilot will come in very handy if you buy an old VMC with blown controls and put your own servos, encoders and LinuxCNC on it. It's a lot easier than you probably imagine, and there is abundant help among the online LinuxCNC community. This is a GREAT way to get a great machine at a very reasonable price, and as an added bonus, the controls are all commodity items. You are no longer locked into proprietary electronics. You can order everything on eBay... cheap! 7:45 You might try the LinuxCNC keyboard shortcuts. It's possible that Tormach disabled some of them, but they probably didn't, leaving them as undocumented features. Unfortunately, undocumented features can disappear later when a new version of PathPilot is released. wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Keyboard_Shortcuts I think you'll like having a robust real time system (which isn't possible on Windows). LinuxCNC 2.7 is currently in pre-release. It has the new high-speed trajectory planner (which I haven't used but it's rumored to be vurra vurra nice) and support for the RT-Preempt realtime kernel. That'll probably be rolled into PathPilot soon.
@CharlesSteinkuehler
9 жыл бұрын
@Liberty4Ever: Thanks for defending the world from Fauxpen Source, but Tormach has been very involved with the true open-source development of this code for more than a year, including hosting a developer meetup at their facility last summer. Most of the key functional features (including the "vurra vurra nice" new trajectory planner) are already integrated upstream and have been usable by the community for months (and it is a substantial improvement over the the previous TP). I'm not sure if they're planning on releasing their custom "eye-candy", but since the API for the GUI is a licensing boundary, that's not required since they wrote their own UI.
@Liberty4Ever
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC It does in fact appear that Tormach funded the open source development of the new trajectory planner, which is apparently already in PathPilot. Tormach was tight lipped about their contribution, so many people assumed the worst. I didn't make any accusations because I didn't know, but based on what I was seeing, I did say that I'd be surprised if Tormach released code they developed for LinuxCNC back to the open source community, and it looks like I'd have lost that bet. Thank you Tormach! Funding the open source development of the new and improved trajectory planner is a big deal. Looks like I'll now be forced to eat my hat. At least it's not an asshat. :-) I don't expect Tormach to release all of their pretty user interface code, particularly the custom graphics that give PathPilot its distinctive appearance, but hopefully there might be some UI framework code that they'd feel comfortable releasing so open source people could have another GUI interface with made from scratch graphics, but even if not, they seem to be kicking back (more than I have!) and that's great. I think the real winners with PathPilot will be the Tormach users. Brad at Tactical Keychains has been a vocal Mach critic. He should upgrade.
@ThomasCrescenzo
9 жыл бұрын
John, thanks for the first look. I just upgraded my controller and they already fixed the headers on the tool table page so that they stay on top when you scroll through. Thanks for giving that recommendation and thanks, Tormach, for changing it so fast. As you also did a video on HSMExpress and there have been some questions about the code that would run in Path Pilot... I did have an error when I tried to use a code that I had previously generated for Mach 3. I generated the code again using the HSMExpress post processor "emc.cps - Generic Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" and my first part on the new controller ran flawlessly. There are probably a lot of other good post processors out there, but if you are using HSMExpress and upgrading to path pilot, this seems like a good place to start.
@GeofDumas
9 жыл бұрын
LAST WEEK I sent tormach an email asking about Mach3 bugs. I asked if they were planning to upgrade the mill to using something linux-based and that was the one question they left unaddressed. Well, here we are. Very cool.
@JohnGrimsmo
9 жыл бұрын
Awesome vid as usual! I can't wait to get mine set up, but I will have to re-code the way it reads my subroutines, and 80% of my recurring codes are all based on that. It shouldn't be too hard, and the benefits will be huge. I'm like you, just shut up about the Mach issues, find workarounds, and make parts. But the issues ARE a big deal.
@lancegifford5435
9 жыл бұрын
Yay!!! I'm laughing because obviously you knew this controller was 'there' when we had our conversation about Unix/Linux. You must have been busting to keep it quiet. Sorry man. This is an awesome move and on my part - very welcomed!
@timmarks7252
9 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the quick look, John. Tormach missed a bet when they didn't make you a beta tester for the lathe (since not a single one of those released a video of their findings following the public release of the lathe). Glad to see that they have recognized you as a great resource.
@l0ckcr4ck3r
9 жыл бұрын
Looks great! The only concern i have at this stage is that the proprietary nature of this software may also remove the ability for us to create our own macros, screen sets and integrate our own accessories, all huge pluses for Mach. Please could you let us know if we will still be able to do this and if Tormach will provide the supporting documentation for this?
@PetefromTn
9 жыл бұрын
Personally I congratulate Tormach for finally seeing the light about what LinuxCNC brings to the table. It is head and shoulders over Mach3 and has been for a very long time. I also thank them for their apparent efforts to bring the new Trajectory planner to the table. However I think the fact that they are going to be calling it their own program now under their own name using the same work that so many have freely given over many years without giving all of their work equally freely is just wrong. This INCLUDES UI improvements and many other features. There have been and still are many folks working hard to make linuxCNC better in many different areas and with many different platforms etc. in my opinion the LEAST they could do is give their work equally. LinuxCNC's capabilities will seriously improve their machine tools offerings and they stand to profit from those improvements considerably let alone the ability to configure it to whatever they need it. LinuxCNC has been running many many Commercial Machining centers all over the world for some time now and with the EXCELLENT MESANET boards it is just a no brainer. I have a Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC running Mesanet Cards and LinuxCNC and I am also working on other machines with it. It is a dead stable reliable system that works beautifully even compared to other commercial controls as I have quite a bit of experience with both. Peace
@mountainmanfab
9 жыл бұрын
Nice!.I definitely have to sit down and spend some time with a newer cam program.My intro to machine work was 3 years of vocational training in high school...being 1990 we were lucky that we had a small cnc lathe to work with but the state of cad/cam packages at the time left a lot to be desired so it was relegated to a bonus if ya wanted to fool with it...rest was all manual.5-6yrs later I got the shock of working with a Fadal Vmc and an old converted Rockwell mini turn 2(so mini it only had a 3" thru bore on the spindle to go with a 30 foot long hydraulic bar feeder) that had started life out as a tape reader.The Fadal was nice and had an addon 4th axis but the lathe still had push button rotary dials to set offsets with.Needless to say little to none of the programing was by cam...we would get a print and then sit down and write the code using a trig sheet and a calc to find our radiuses so we knew what to use for our I and J for circular interpolation...lotsa yellow legal pads and stickit notes around our benches lol...Ran into haas and others years later...fadal and fanuc basicaly being the same except for control layout and a couple g/m code variations. I still watch newer machine videos with a bit of shock tho...no so much by whats being done as by the speed and availibility.Its nice knowing ya can do it manualy but almost heartbreaking how much has changed
@mountainmanfab
9 жыл бұрын
srry...should have said kinda awestruck instead of heartbroken...I can come across kinda weird or negative sometimes and but its never intended that way.I think what your doing rocks...both in basicaly teaching yourself and being willing to share with others!
@jimfirv2982
9 жыл бұрын
Mach 3 is all there was that was half decent since forever that was affordable to the home CNC user. I think it was great, the haters gonna hate. I think it's amazing that someone made such a good piece of software at such a low price. ;)
@jimfirv2982
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC Forgot to mention bro, check out Mach3 2010 screenset when you get a second to even scratch yourself. I've been using it for years, has an ATC touchoff function for those of us who don't have an ATC, but it's just so clean, nice pages, simple to navigate... worth the 20 buck. Without a doubt.
@TheSageDad
9 жыл бұрын
I think the UI would be great with a touch screen monitor... will get rid of the need for a mouse. Cheap and rugged touch screens are available -- not sure if they provide one in the controller kit or not.
@derekaztec
8 жыл бұрын
A Fadal 1995 or newer with a HS88 Controller is a really good controller that i use daily and make plenty of aerospace and RF Microwave housings. Great Controls, if you ever have the opportunity to buy one do it. don't worry about replacing all the motors and controller that's a waste of money.
@fytanman
9 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video John! Do you know if you can share files across network instead of using USB? They stated in white paper of being able to use networks. Great as always!
@BigMjolnir
9 жыл бұрын
John, really great to see a move to an open source OS. Not so great to see a machining channel with rude comments...I know much of KZitem is like that, but until this video the machining channels I've been watching have been clear of such childish guff. I am heartened that despite a few posts of that ilk, others remained calm and polite and supplied actual facts in response, and the issues seem to gave been clarified and calmness restored. My take is that Tormach has contributed code and/or support for code to LinuxCNC, but the UI that they wrote on top of the API is specific to Tormach hardware and will be proprietary. Seems reasonable to me. They may want to consider whether some variation on it might be worth selling as a product for other hardware since there seems to be interest in the look and feel they came up with. Mach 4 sounds like it is supposed to be that, so if it ever happens, perhaps that will satisfy the demand. The UI can make or break software as much or more than what features underlie it. You may have the fastest, most efficient car in existence, but if it takes 5 hands and 4 feet, or a PhD in racing, to drive it, you won't sell many! A lot of open source software has that problem...not just in the area of machining, and a number of companies have made money addressing the problem. Heck, maybe someone will license Tormach's UI code and do a modified version that isn't Tormach-specific and make some money supplying an apparent need. Thanks for the video. Good stuff to know all around. Thanks also to the commenters who supplied information on the history of LinuxCNC. -- Mike
@shainterry
9 жыл бұрын
Great video. Looking forward to see how it all works out. Anywhere in the software to store multiple work offsets? Not sure if the "MACH" in Tormach is representative of Mach 3 but are they going to change there name? :)
@andypughtube
9 жыл бұрын
I found myself typing this in the most poisonous sub-thread of this discussion, and decided to move it. In some ways this move by Tormach validates all that is good about Open Source software. Why did Tormach make this switch? On some levels it was because they launched a lathe, and Mach was never excellent with lathes, and was very much less than excellent at threading if the spindle-speed changed... But then the question is why they decided to switch the mills too? I suspect that it was the Open Source thing, having built the lathe on LinuxCNC they realised what a huge advantage it was to them of being in control of the source-code and capabilities of the machines that they sold. No longer are they slaves to someone else's release schedule, no longer do they have t go cap-in-hand to the company to ask for a new feature. If they want a new feature they can add it (or pay someone to add it, [1]). If they choose to, they can share it. (In some circumstances I believe they are obliged to offer to, but that is not the same as the custodians of other forks accepting the changes). So, this looks like a confirmation of Open-Source to me. All that is rubbing folk up the wrong way is a commercial company reaping the rewards of being able to make their own customisations rather than an individual user. But in the end all that is different is the sizes of the loops in the Venn Diagram. [1] Or bribe an established dev with a slantbed to add it :-)
@aewallin
9 жыл бұрын
Nice move by Tormach! Does anyone have a break-down of the components that make up the Tormach control, and their associated licenses. With the core of linuxcnc being GPL, there should be little risk of possible upgrades or enhancements not being contributed back to the GPL version?
@samsokolik734
9 жыл бұрын
To add - for Tormach to fund the new trajectory planner - they are in it for the long haul... (the TP development has been in the works for over a year.) That was one of the last big hurdles to compete with mach. (the original linuxcnc TP was 1 segment lookahead - This is fine for a lot of machining except when you get into short segment - high speed like relief engraving)
@DanFalck
9 жыл бұрын
Do we know if their Gui is communicating with the Linuxcnc API in such a way as to be required to be GPL licensed too? Knowing that the interface can communicate with linuxcnc over a network (ala Machinekit and it's Qt interfaces) makes me wonder if GPL'ing the gui code is a moot point. I am glad they are using linuxcnc. I also have to thank them for improving the trajectory planner. Another gui can be coded, if someone really wants it to have a similar look and feel.
@DanFalck
9 жыл бұрын
I ordered the cd or usb stick of PathPilot from Tormach. I really want to check it out, but don't own a Tormach machine. I have read, somewhere else, that it won't function without a third party card present, but that's fine with me. I will study the code to see how they did things. If the media they send has all the source, then they will have fulfilled their GPL obligation and the toxic part of the discussion on the linuxcnc mailing list will have been premature.
@andypughtube
9 жыл бұрын
Dan Falck It probably needs the Mesa 5i25. Possibly the most common LinuxCNC PCI card at the moment, lots of folk have them, including me.
@matthewprestine1974
9 жыл бұрын
Edited: Deleted comment. I was a bit preemptive about my comment, Good work Tormach and the best of success to you with this adventure. Pushing the limits for such a small company is great, keep up the work.
@NotIT
9 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the quick look at PathPilot. I just ordered my upgrade earlier this evening when I got the message from Tormach. I have a pcnc770 series 3 and I'm personally looking forward to the improvements. Especially for the times when all I want to just quickly make some accurate holes or mill a simple part. Conversational input should make that so much more convenient.
@davidsohlstrom6977
9 жыл бұрын
John I paused the video at the probing screen shot. Is that all of the probing options. If it is that sucks. The screen set I use with my 770 will probe holes for center, slots for center, round stock in the 4th for center and several others. Dave
@fytanman
9 жыл бұрын
I don't know if you seen it or not, but there are more tabs on the probing screen . On the top left labeled Rect/Circ. I'm betting that is where you will find your center finding options. Not sure , but I do hope so . Wish John would have shown the two other probing screens. Just glad he showed us this peak 8-)
@davidsohlstrom6977
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC John have you had a chance to look at probing yet. I'm waiting for my upgrade and draft manual. Wish they would make the draft manual available for DL to review early. Dave
@davidsohlstrom6977
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC Thanks John. I have never used instagram but the link worked. Dave
@jdrinkh2o
9 жыл бұрын
Does feed hold actually work now with this, that would be a huge win?
@lancegifford5435
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC Woo Hoo.. Feedhold works! That was my BIGGEST beef with Mach3 - well actually that was Windows fault. Bye bye Windows!
@GregsGarage
9 жыл бұрын
Cool look at the software. Thanks.
@vincentahedo10
9 жыл бұрын
John, do you know when path pilot will be OEM equipment for the PCNC 1100??
@vincentahedo10
9 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Thank you sir.
@thomasvanderkooy5357
7 жыл бұрын
can I input a master cam file into a tormack machine and run it. I am looking at a new machine for my shop that is smaller then my haas machines.
@afleetcommand
9 жыл бұрын
Oh yea.. the "Offsetting" algorithms used to create things like pocketing routines & even simple tool center tool paths have been around forever, but are still hard. Especially if the base geometry isn't accurate. Or there are splines. Offsetting and then making certain the end points on the "offset" curves are contiguous can be tricky on more complex shapes.... A test for your SpurtCam is to take a simple closed boundary with fileted corners both directions.... ( A lamb chop), build a profile or 'finish" tool path; then rotate the geometry about either the x or y direction 1.5 degrees in space....so its no longer perpendicular to the z-axis... Now all the "fillets" are splines or possibly ellipses... see what happens when you recalculate your profile toolpath.... you either will get a whole lot of "points" where the fillets or "G02's and G03's" used to be or it will in fact fail. Depending on the result... I will know where the base offsetting algorithm's had there design roots.. :) I like simple S/W tools, looks like your new control S/W has room for growth.. :)
@afleetcommand
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC Key word should be "knew" vs. "know". Back ground... not quite certain how to answer that other than to say I was in a very unique position during a time of growth and change.
@afleetcommand
9 жыл бұрын
Roots back with Okuma's IGC and Yamazaki's (Mazak's) IGC and here in the US there were the out growth of the NGC (Darpa) & EMC project (NIST) before they went "ARPA" and then BACK to DARPA and NIST. A long and very disturbing story. Oh yea, the "Merlin" project funded by Pratt-Whitney. Had a real interesting conversation many years ago with a fellow in Japan who at that time was in charge of defining directions... bottom line? The interface is a filter to feed the base algorithm's only problems they can solve... :) The Achilles heel of so many software vendors is to push the limit on functionality and cross the line in the name of marketing.. then bugs show up in the end user product, then the "Bug Chasing" dance begins. Many of these routines in open source land were as much proof of concept as anything. Didn't have to pass the production test of a billion special conditions. Bet you didn't see many bugs on Mazak's offerings.. Time will tell on this stuff; with its "Open Source" roots. Interesting.
@FreemanPascal
9 жыл бұрын
The path display looks like LinuxCNC. Is it built on top of LinuxCNC? If so, do you know if Tormach is making it available to hobbyists as an alternative to Mach 3/4?
@rlockwood2
9 жыл бұрын
The lathe software (which he mentions is 'the same') is written on top of LinuxCNC.
@Moronicsmurf
9 жыл бұрын
It is actually ontop of LinuxCNC and they arent giving anything back to the hobbyist community at all. Ass hattery is what it is.
@clintwalker316
9 жыл бұрын
First ,I don't own a Tormach product and probably never will. It is my understanding that with open source software you have the ability to modify it for your own use , you even have the permission of the original authors to charge for your modified version (should you choose) as long as you credit them with the original foundation for your work. I know Sherline took this approach many years back but I do believe they always offered a free download of their version although one would probably need to modify it for their own personal use. I for one think that if it's free to everyone and the original writers have no problem with you modifying it for your needs then all is good, but I do feel there should be some at least moral obligation to give back as least as much as you took. It seems from the posts that Tormach has contributed back to the community , I have no idea as to the extent of this contribution but it would be a nice gesture for the company to share with others what they have achieved even if it isn't compatible with someone else's machine . This is a way of showing your appreciation for all the work the community has done to give you a head start on your own project. Tormach I can appreciate the fact that you have probably invested a great deal of time and money in further developing Linuxcnc to meet your needs , but I can also imagine that amount would be a drop in the bucket compared to what you would have spent to develop a control system from scratch..
@clintwalker316
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC well my point was 2 sided. Seemed a few were a little hard on Tormach for what they perceived as Tormach selling what they thought should be open source. and second just my thoughts on using open source and giving back whenever possible. It would appear that Tormach is so I really wasn't condemning them in any way. I didn't mean it to sound like I wouldn't own a Tormach just that I doubt I'll ever have the funds to warrant me purchasing one for just my hobby use..
@flavour404
9 жыл бұрын
Being a software engineer I kind of laugh and get annoyed when people downplay things like controllers. CNC machines would be nothing without software so it was a nice change to see the software be the star! I like the look of PathPilot. I think Tormach had to move on from Mach as version 3 is getting on a bit and does have some issues. I hope Tormach feed some of the development work back into the opensource version. I always think about Fadal and HAAS, controllers can make or break a company.
@sleddarcheddar
9 жыл бұрын
Don't forget hurcos control. Mazatrol is pretty dang good too.
@danielkitson6878
9 жыл бұрын
hi john, i have been reading about the new path-pilot cnc controller and it looks good until i read that if you don't own a tormach machine you can't use it that stinks !!!!!!!, it works on a Linux computer that's meant to be open source and when you can download Linux emc2 for free, I can see that they may have spent money on making the software but to exclude people from using it is a bit wrong, I am sure you have your own ideas on this, but as you are supported by tormach that may make it hard for you to comment on this ? rant over and good video for tormach users only. Daniel
@xorfive
9 жыл бұрын
Bring on all the comments about how Tormach ripped off the Open Source community. I personally feel that having a commercial product based on LinuxCNC can only be a good thing for LinuxCNC. Sure they might not hand over the fancy interface they made, but you can bet that they will have a team of developers contributing bug fixes and other enhancements that are part of the core LinuxCNC package.
@Hogtopia
9 жыл бұрын
Mark Kotyk agree. Also, pursuing the LinuxCNC site there is a document released in October last year oddly titled "Integrator Manual" The whole discussion about ripping off the source is missing the point. Tormach IS using LinuxCNC which I think is what the goal of the project is. www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/pdf/LinuxCNC_Integrator_Manual.pdf
@putmana10
9 жыл бұрын
how do you post to PathPilot? Mach3?
@Moronicsmurf
9 жыл бұрын
Pathpilot is LinuxCNC so its the standard Fanuc compatible post, same as mach3. If you wanna dive into it; here you have the source. code.google.com/p/rs274ngc/
@andrevanheerden7239
9 жыл бұрын
NYC CNC Does that mean that all my existing code has to be redone with a new post ?.
@putmana10
9 жыл бұрын
Andre van Heerden that's what I want to know - my CAM software has a post for Mach3..........
@JohnGrimsmo
9 жыл бұрын
Andre van Heerden Basic/standard codes M and G codes should work fine, subroutines and fancy stuff is done a little bit differently so will have to be tweaked.
@andypughtube
9 жыл бұрын
Mach3 and LinuxCNC use very similar dialects of G-code. (Both based on NIST's RS274NGC) There are some places where specific new codes have diverged, but those tend not to be used by CAM software anyway. There is a Postprocessor for Inventor HSM (and I guess HSMWorks) called "Generic EMC2" which works very nicely indeed with LinuxCNC. Most other CAM systems (Such as CamBam) also have a suitable postprocessor, you just have to make an educated guess whether to look for EMC2, LinuxCNC or (now) PathPilot.
@germannunez6868
4 жыл бұрын
Is always talk talk talk!!!!!
@MrDaniell1234
9 жыл бұрын
the main problem was the shit computers tormach used some of use have never had a problem with M3 and 1/2 of it was the computers clock speed not keeping up
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