As a shipbuilder from Canada, get rid of the wood in the engine room, it is a fire hazard and retains oil/fuel. If you move the engine aft ensure that you still have height to make your coupling. Forget the stainless steel it is way more expensive and harder to work. Use mild steel A36/44W a fast sandblast job and epoxy paint and it will outlast you and I. Then bed with fibreglass. As for vibration you can purchase resiliant mounts that will greatly reduce sound/vibration but they will raise engine height or lower your engine bed height you can get all you want with a little planning. Good stuff
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for advising me. So no wood. Even if I fibre-glass it to the existing structure? I dont have a workshop so I must have even mild steel made from somewhere. Most all industry is gone over here. Easy to get digital era stuff - hard to get industrial era stuff. Resiliant mounts...Is that the same as the engine mounts I already have (4 ps), with rubber? I think you can see them in the video, on the picture showing the existing engine bed. Should I change them?
@user-yq5yg9qm8k
Жыл бұрын
Your current mounts in this video looks old and tired. I suggest to change them anyway. About steelwork - for custom steel bed enough to have usual angle grinder, drill and any cheap welder. Plus with custom engine bed (no matter steel or wood one) you can use another engine mounts (softer, cheaper, larger or everything at once). I believe no problem to use here automotive engine mounts. If you need some help with certain partnumbers, please let me know. In case you're focus on reducing engine sound and vibration i think best way - to make own bed design. Because manufacturer do it in simplest and cheapest way.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@user-yq5yg9qm8kGreat input, thanks. The current mount is just 5 years old (the old engine bed is of course 46 YO). I might shape it and glass it in with the old engine bed. I do have a cousin with skills and a welding machine....maybe.. I believe I will have no problem with parts no as the importer of these engines, Nogva, is very helpful, both answering questions and also sharing both instructions, installations and workshop manuals. But thank you for a really great offer. 🙂
@snowgorilla9789
Жыл бұрын
Further to this discusion, some heavy angle iron will work just as well and should be available. Perhaps 6x4x3/8 or metric equivilent then you do not need to weld anything as you can clamp wooden spacers while you do the glass work, but bigger is always better when it comes to engine beds
@user-yq5yg9qm8k
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad Keep in mind origin of these mounts. In my expirience some good rubber parts can last very long time, but most of them these days are made in one well known country and can fall apart quickly.
@barney2001
Жыл бұрын
I would do some math and figure out the balance change from moving the engine towards the stern and putting the diesel tank forward of it. I suggest assuming half full tanks. Moving the engine aft will lower the engine in the boat, allowing you to lower the sole if you wish. On the other hand, there could be less space under the engine, making the maintenance more difficult. I wouldn’t worry too much about a wood versus steel engine bed. Wood beds generally last a very long time if made correctly. Don’t know what is easiest in Norway. I can understand your desire to use expensive marine plywood in the interior because of the rot you are experiencing. However, a good exterior grade plywood should last as long as marine plywood IF you are able to chase down all the fresh water leaks. I am surprised that this rugged looking boat leaks like a sieve. I believe that chasing down and permanently handling the leaks will be the best thing you could do to make the boat last a long time. The hull/deck joint would be where I would start, moving to windows next. I enjoy your enthusiasm and humour.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for advising, Ian. There are no need to lower the cabin sole, there are plenty of room over my head. But I could potentially insulate to further bring down the noice made by the engine. There are actually not a lot of useful room under the engine as is. But I dont think that will be necessary either, as there are no service points that low (on this engine that is). I guess the cheapest will be to have a wooden engine bed. We have plenty of oak, so relatively cheap. Steal, and especially stainless steel is way more expensive as there are few workshops to cut and sell pieces of steel around. So wood is easiest in Norway. I might have my hands on some marine grade plywood now. The shit they sell in the wood-shops are low quality and will fall apart if they are just a bit soaked once or twice. The boat used to leak - not anymore - fixed it last year; se this video kzitem.info/news/bejne/raCNmKaAs2mTmn4
@aldertjeful
Жыл бұрын
Move the engine back, on a steelframe and mounted on rubber, to prohibite vibrations through the hull. Anyhoo....you're doing a great job! I do hope youre building skills are as good as your demolition skills 😂😂😂 Love from Holland!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
So one vote for moving the engine back. Noted! :-) My building skills suck! And there are a lot of possible solutions. I almost run crazy in my head.
@bertram46
Жыл бұрын
Good to see you again I'm halfway through the video and was going to make some suggestions and started reading some of the other comments and they're saying what I'm already thinking so I will not repeat. Obviously balance and weight distribution is key especially with a round bottom boat like this. Steve Naples fl
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hello again, Steve. I do have got a lot of feedback/advices and will make a decision on what path to proceed. I might choose the easy path... :-)
@bertram46
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad yes! Maintain one's sanity:))
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@bertram46 Yes! And then might even sail this boat in a not to distant future... 😀
@michaelmax5161
Жыл бұрын
Hey mate... waited for the next video and...there you are again! 🎉 In my opinion, place the engine on a steel base and use strong rubber silencers to absorb the vibrations and noises. Wood will cause problems in the future. Moving the engine backwards and shortening the driveshaft will save you weight and will stiffen the system. And it will create space, as you had in mind. And...we have 29 degrees celsius and I stopped doing my work. Way to hot today... 😂 Hang on! Greetz to you and your daughter! It makes me smile everytime when she shows up for that second... Best wishes to Norge! Mihal, germany...
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hi Mihal from Germany. The rubber silencers you suggest, are they others then the marine engine mount (4 ps) with rubber? 29 is really too hot for me to exist, no less work. Luckily we have only 26. And I worry not - it will soon pass over to rain and sub 20 temperatures. Norway! ;-D
@michaelmax5161
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad hey blimp! I guess they are not quite different from those you suggest. We used them for our vibrating screens that weight around 300 pounds. They worked quite well 24/7... I guess it depends on the weight of your engine. 4 pieces with 2inch diameter should work... Next week we will have 35 degrees... in june... Maybe I stay in the water the whole day... It seems norway is the only option... Stay healthy and motivated! Mihal
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@michaelmax5161 😄
@peterwatson6975
Жыл бұрын
Well done for being so bold with your re-design intentions! Taking so much of the internal structure leaves you doubting whether there will be any end to the project. I assure you that replacement with new will be very therapeutic ! For my last engine I intallation I shaped hardwood engine bearers and epoxied them in. These were sheathed in grp and moulded such that I also created a catchment tray below the engine sump. I had taken out old rusting steel bearers. Encasing stainless bearers in grp still runs a risk of the stainless corroding due to lack of oxygen. I positioned the rear of the engine to ensure room for a Seaseal and Aquadrive coupling. The tapering of the hull where the prop shaft angles down may dictate how far you can go back. Additionally you do not want the engine too high above its mounts so it induces excessive vibration. Always allow yourself space around the engine for access and maintenance. You've made great progress so far and I'm sure you will chose the right solutions in the future. Keep going!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Well spoken (written), Peter. I am practically "out on deep water" now. Soooo many options pop up when opening up the walls. And yes, I see no end to the project as of now :-D Now I need to focus on the engine and forget about the rest of the boat. The substance of your input points towards leaving the engine as is, strengthening the engine bed (a lot). That will eliminate a lot of variables of uncertainties and leave lots of access space. I might go for that. :-)
@dick8193
Жыл бұрын
Great videos, always interesting.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Dick :-)
@duncanjames914
Жыл бұрын
I admire your tenacity and commitment to the project. I have definitely been there! 😄 One consideration for any changes to your engine is the location of your rudder and the proximity of the propeller to the bottom of the hull. You may have to shorten the shaft if you move the engine aft. If the shaft angle changes you may have a problem with the thru-hull bearing. I would stick with oak or mahogany engine beds with a stainless cap. The location of the fuel tank may have been chosen based on the boat's balance. However, I find saddle tanks have a bigger impact on stability - especially if they drain independently. Have fun!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Duncan for advising. It is (quite) easy to demolish. I will, however, struggle when the rebuild starts. Sooooo many variables and possibilities! And planning ahead is not my cup of tea.... Yes, the shaft will be shortened if i move the engine aft. I believe the angle is already wrong (too low) by 3-4 mm, and there is a terrible sanding sound from the aft cabin when running. Not sure how to place the dieseltank(s), water- gray and blackwater tanks. Yet anyway. :-)
@duncanjames914
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad Happy to provide some armchair expertise and support Blimp. The good news is that you have a video of the demolition. So reconstructing things will be easier (I hope). I would be inclined to replace the diesel tank where it was originally located. As for the water tanks, perhaps they could fit into the newly found space ahead of the engine and behind the diesel tank. This would leave storage space where the port and starboard water tanks were located. Did you say you could gain 40-47cm by moving the engine aft? That would amount to a good size water tank. 23 here today as well. Summer has finally arrived. :-)
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@duncanjames914 Great to read, Duncan. I hesitate to put the dieseltank back as it was obstructing access to the propeller shaft area and the gear. And hard to access the mud/water drain plug in the tank as well. This boat did actually not have hard water tanks, but soft ones. Not sure if I go with that next... Might move the engine max 40cm aft. Not sure yet. I do get a lot of conflicting advice on this issue. I consider this a good base to make a final decision on. Oh..yesterday and today about 26, and here I find myself spending hours answering to kind comments 🙂
@Hyperdrive2
Жыл бұрын
Don't forget you need good access to the front of the engine for servicing pump, belt and alternator.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
A good point, particularly if the dieseltank should be placed in front of the engine.
@vapingwolf478
10 ай бұрын
Soon the Boat is empty. Looking forward to the next steps.
@user-yq5yg9qm8k
Жыл бұрын
I am not familiar with shipbuilding, my experience is more in the automotive field, but note that the design of the engine and its supports are not made in the most efficient way, but in the cheapest way. Above I suggested making a custom engine bed. The design of which could include more effective vibration absorption methods. For example controlled hydraulic or pneumatic supports (it is not so expensive, it may be used from Scania trucks, your engine is made on their basis), and you can also use reactive supports and second order oscillation dampeners (not as difficult as it seems, it is just a small additional weights on the supports, which dampen the spread of this type of vibration). If you keep it simple, the custom engine bed looks like an uncomplicated welded construction with other supports (probably cheaper and more efficient than the original ones). I think you have noticed that any simple assembly becomes many times more expensive if it is "specialized", e.g. for boats all things are cost much more and it is not always justified by the real characteristics of the part.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for again advising. I have got a lot of input, pointing in different directions. Maybe - as you suggest - starting simple is the best way. I will consider this during the next few weeks. :-)
@tigerjongreen
Жыл бұрын
I would go for a light wood decor in the reconstruction. It will give an impression of spaciousness and will lighten up those dark corners. You are in the most unrewarding stage of the works but more constructive times are ahead. Thanks again for taking the time to share this with us, it is appreciated.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, John, for such a nice comment. Made my day! I am entangled in opportunities and options now, but are focusing on the engine "room" for now. But yes, light interior sounds wise.
@stevel91
10 ай бұрын
On a small boat like that i would position the engine so it can easily be accessed and worked on. Then use tanks to balance the boat. Ok maybe that's my knees and back talking. Beautiful! boat by the way.
@hsobstad
10 ай бұрын
You are definitely on the same approach as myself. Thanks. :-)
@mohanprabhu8562
Жыл бұрын
WoW! It's a major undertaking, like others commented don;t use wood for engine mounts. Steel, rubber, fiberglass would be the way i think. Moving the engine and fuel tanks could pose stability issues better to consult a naval architect or original boat maker see what they have to say. Good luck & cheers!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your advice, Mohan. It is a lot of work yes. Will check with a consultant. :-)
@SctyGrpPowers
Жыл бұрын
You are a brave man. Certainly not afraid of work. You will have a new boat when you are done, if it doesn't kill you first. Good luck!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks. I am worried about that too! It is way harder to do the interior than the exterior (for me). :-)
@maxwellsmart2720
Жыл бұрын
i really wish you my best . im in pain seeing you destroying this lovely boat . but , you seem know what you do so let see it ! greetings from argentina !
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, Maxwell from Argentina (cool). All I am destroying is already in bad condition. Removing it makes me feel the boat gets better. But yes, the boat will never be the same boat again, but something else. :-)
@jeremygraham7288
Жыл бұрын
Hi, love the work and the vessel! With engine, can you use steel frame with rubber mounts to minimize noise. I haven't worked on any boats lately but I had an old gaff rigged cutter many years ago and we had hard rubber disk mountings which were reasonably good. You may have to change them regularly though. Good luck. Jeremy
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your advice, Jeremy. Since this is a video from april this year, I hav actually made a choice, and went for glassed-in plywood. The engine mounts are the rubber "type". Not finished yet, but the progress is to be found in my other videos :-)
@omvaren
Жыл бұрын
Don't use marine grade plywood on the inside. Heavy and expensive and certainly not necessary. Use birch or poplar. This boat is not very full in the aft. Keep it light! Also, don't make the propeller shaft too short. You need a certain length to stay flexible.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the advice! I have now found a supplier of marine grade plywood and have ordered a few plates. Your advice about keeping the propeller shaft a certain length for flexibility reasons, is good. I have made a note of that. Thanks!
@Benjicmm
Жыл бұрын
I am seeing some comments about moving to steel and adding additional rubber into the engine foundation, but I would be cautious about adding additional flexibility into the engine mounting system. Engine Mounts are engineered to have a specific flexibility. For this reason you often have different front and rear engine mounts. Additional flexibility may give you engine alignment issues that could cause damage to shaft, coupler, cutlass bearing, transmission, etc. Personally I quite like wood engine beds, if they are built properly, they can outlive the engine. Stainless steel could be a good solution but keep in mind that it is very difficult to work with if it ever needs repair. I am no master marine mechanic, but I have done about half a dozen marine diesel re-powers.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your advice. The problem in this boat is that the engine seems to be installed by amateurs. Not installing a siphon-valve turned out fatal for the turbo and exhaust-bend. And the engine bed is rocking, as shown in the video. So your advice is to stiffen up the engine bed, and use wood. Great!
@Benjicmm
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad Yes. Have you checked Engine Alignment as it is? If you plan on moving it back coaxially, you might want to make sure that the shaft isn't already at the limits of its radial travel. This might be especially relevant given the engine installer.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@Benjicmm Yes I have, it is mostly very good, but about 4mm too low. I will fix that.
@freedom35pedrick
Жыл бұрын
Keep room for a good dripless shaft seal - such as pss by pyi (example). Great videos on your build! Thank you!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hi. It is a valid point you are making. As of now the shaft seal is amazingly watertight, even though it is probably the original from 1976. I consider changing it to a PSS (same as I have on the Rhea 900). Works great :-)
@3in1Machining
Жыл бұрын
Remember to paint the inside and get a clean fresh start once all the rubbish is removed.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Good advice, Graham! That will also get rid of some old oil-smell from the hull. :-)
@jaipersico7940
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, Helge! Lot of valid suggestions and things to think about in the posts. I would probably go with a hard wood wrapped in fiberglass then painted. With all the demo you're doing your weight balance and how she sits might already be changed; this would be my primary consideration (next to having enough space below to work on the engine). Keep up the good work!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Jai, for your kind comment. I might go with hardwood wrapped with fibreglass. :-)
@bradleyroberson1074
Жыл бұрын
Good afternoon Helge. Wow, great progress on the demo! I think moving the engine aft a bit is a valid idea. I agree with some of the other comments about using a steel frame with hi quality engine mounts. Good to do some weight calculations. That is how my Tresfjord is put together. Also, my Tresfjord has the centerline fuel tank ahead of the engine. About the same size as yours 300l. The fuel tank has a bulkhead forward and aft. This does help to quiet any engine noise up forward. Make sure you have room on the forward end of the engine for future maintenance. If you do move the engine aft when you go to shorten the shaft I believe the rule for the distance between prop hub and bearing is 1.5 times shaft diameter. (Maximum) I had to shorten my shaft because it was way over that and I had shaft whip. As far as the plywood I found a British standard marine plywood. Metric sizes. Really super quality stuff. You are only going to do this once so use the best! I will try to send details on this material.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Good morning, Bradley. Thanks for (again) a detailed comment. So you are positive to moving the engine aft and shortening the propeller shaft. And steel frame, swapping the present engine mounts to ha higher quality. I have got feedback that a long shaft keeps the flexibility in the system. This is opposite to the rule you described, it sounds to me. It is hard, doing it right :-) I actually have got a supplier of high quality plywood now. Might have it here in e few weeks. :-)
@terrynorton3182
Жыл бұрын
British Standard 1088. Do not buy from just anywhere, a proper timber merchant should have it. Make sure it doesn't come from the place that makes and sells everything!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@terrynorton3182 That is the core of the problem, around here. Second largest city in Norway, but still small, makes a small selection of shops. Luckily I have a friend who is an expert on wood and is helping me out sorting quality. I had to order from a distant shop so still a risk-game. Time will tell...
@jonathanmorgan7503
Жыл бұрын
Great progress! It will be interesting to see if you opt for bigger diesel tankage to increase cruising range under engine or even run diesel heating.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Jonathan. I will definitely run diesel heating as I have 3 ps of Ebersprecher diesel heaters laying around. I´d like to have great cruising range and this is a motorsailer so I recon using the engine quite a bit. I am not sure I can use the old tank, but I will consider it.
@dm5374
Жыл бұрын
Judging from the color, the engine looks like a Nanni Diesel. I've had one, and the main advantage is all the ancillaries are in the front. If you put a tank in front of the engine, you make it harder to service. Just my thoughts...
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Correct! It is a Nanni N4-60, 2018. Not on this one. Diesel-filter is back, left hand (seen from front of the boat) near the intake of the turbo. Raw water pump is on low on the left hand side. Oil filter is on the left/front corner, very low. The heat exchanger is on the right side. That will need service every third year, changing o-rings. So this engine is not like yours, I guess. And yes, the diesel tank should be installed with some distance to the engine. :-)
@bradleyroberson1074
Жыл бұрын
Helge, the the plywood is Hydrotec. Meets British standard 1088. No voids at all. Very pretty when varnished.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks again, Bradley. Will keep this information.
@normanboyes4983
Жыл бұрын
Helge with the caveat of it’s your boat and you can do what you want with it - here are my comments: 1. Marine Ply: I would not bother, just buy good quality plywood and fully encapsulate with epoxy & fibreglass, taking care to follow up and epoxy any holes you make in it for pipe/cable penetrations. 2. Moving the engine: Not sure what you will actually gain overall from doing this, apart from the joy of swapping the relative positions of the tank and the engine. There are a few considerations of course, you are moving significant net weight further aft from the longitudinal centre of flotation so you will trim further aft. I am not in a position to quantify or assess the magnitude of the effect or if indeed that it will be a ‘real issue’. 3. Engine bearers - I would stick with timber and encapsulate with epoxy based fibreglass and further glass it over and incorporate into the existing engine bed (even if you do decide to move the engine aft). Hope that helps. Looking forward to the next edition of the demolition derby.😉😀👍⛵️
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hello again, Norman :-) 1. I have tried plywood of lesser quality, but it came apart when becoming wet a few times. I find this work much too painful to risk doing something twice.... Epoxying is smart. Just like spiffy (Mads in Sail Life). I will however try to go with polyester as much as possible. Once you start with epoxy you cannot go back... 2. I will of course have to take trim into considerations no matter. Dont want the diesel tank placed where it used to be, as it blocks access to propeller-shaft area and the gear. 3. Encapsulate the timber with fibreglass, onto the existing engine bed. Interesting idea. Soon no more to demolish. Must soon work.... ;-D Thanks for advising me.
@normanboyes4983
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad ok and I just corrected my typo!
@johnjennings9043
10 ай бұрын
I wouldnt use marine ply above the waterline or internally these days - the standard generally isnt as good as it used to be - an that failed on your boat anyway. For above the waterline, I use Baltic Ply exterior grade with a thin coat of epoxy round the edges. Its stiffer and think stronger. In Norway, its probably a lot easier to find.
@hsobstad
10 ай бұрын
Hello again, John. The old plywood was of excellent quality, but was soaked with freshwater for decades. I have actually experienced what you describe, that the plywood that is supposed to be suited, just is not. Top quality plywood is really hard to get in Norway. But I found a Polish guy that runs a company that imports klass A marine plywood. I got a woodworking polish friend to talk to him about the quality and ended up buying 12 pc. Costed about US$180 a piece. So I hope it is great stuff. Good advice, epoxying the edges. :-)
@crow3003
Жыл бұрын
Hi Helge. I do not think moving the engine 40cm back would be a problem that can not be offset by ballast fuel/water tanks or interior changes. Just test move the engine back and measure the change in the way the boat are in the sea, I think it will be a underwelming litle change. I definitely do not like your wood engine bed, nothing bad to say about wood but the way it was done was not ok. I would ask Nogva about the engine mounts, are they optimal for isolating wibration from the hull? Are there better options to be had for your situaiton? Nogva is after all the real experts at this (only 10km from where I live). Anyway you got to sort the enginemount issue before making a new engine bed. I like the idea to fiberglas in a new engine bed partly to the old engine bed and partly to the hull (should be strong, rigid and easyer to get right). I have never heard of a to short prop axel as long there are space for the engine, gearbox and bearings to be set up right, the other way aurond however.... My gut feeling from listnening to you is move the engine aft (it's less than 0,5m), add new wood engine bed and glas it in. Make sure you got the most optimal engine mounts for your aplikasion and run with it. P.s. I see a rebuild of your prop shaft bearings in near future, just as well to do it before final positioning the engine. Good luck.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hei Hildring! So living near Nogva. Probably makes you a Norwegian :-) I have great experience with Nogva when it comes to advice and sharing documentation. So I might call them on the engine mounts, like you advice. This boat is really heavy with 6.6 tonnes, so I dont think isolated moving 250kg engine backwards with 40cm will prove much. It should be easy to level out... So you like the idea of glassing-in the new wood bed to the old fibreglass bed. I might go with that. Thank you for your advice! :-)
@user-kc9by9ib2w
Жыл бұрын
ФАНЕРА ПРИ ВЛАЖНОСТИ БУДЕТ ГНИТЬ.ИЛИ ДЕРЕВО ПРОПИТАННОЕ .ОТ ГНИЕНИЯ .ЛУЧШЕ -- АМГ .УДАЧИ УСПЕХОВ .
@loydsa
Жыл бұрын
This not intended as a criticism. merely a thought. The Diesel Tank (when full) and the engine are two of the heaviest parts if the boat, when moved you will alter the boats center of gravity and how she sits in the water. This may not be enough t0 cause problems and you may be able to counter this by moving the fresh and dirty water tanks.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for advising. There is no point in moving anything if no gain. I did find the dieseltank to be obstructing access to the propeller shaft area and the gear. The boat must be trimmed again when moving the tank. I might put the freshwater tank(s) in the rear of the boat.
@henryostman5740
Жыл бұрын
There is a long history of mounting marine engines on wood sleepers but I sure wouldn't use pine, rather a more accepted marine hardwood. As the engine is moved back it will be lower so check and double check clearances there. I believe the fishers mount the rudder to the keel so you will have to shorten the shaft. Check out to see if there are better quality engine mounts, rubber dries out and there are synthetic ones that better control vibration and last longer. Moving the engine will change the balance of the boat making it more down by the stern and lightening the bow, how will this affect performance in a seaway? the engine will be lower, that is a good thing. A feathering prop will improve sail performance and a four or five blade prop will be quieter.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for advising, Henry. Yes, I will have to shorten the shaft, if the engine is moved aft. The present engine mounts (4 engine feets) are only 5 years old and have ran less then 200 hours. The company importing these engines, Nogva, are a major supplier for engines to fishing boats. That is why I believe the engine mounts are ok. But maybe not? I will balance off the engine with diesel and water-tanks. The propeller is brand new. Since the Fishers are motorsailers they are motorboats that sails well - or sailboats that motors well. I believe a feathering prop will have minor impact on sail speed, but will be slightly worse while motoring (if not a very expensive one maybe). The revs on the propeller will only be in the area of (1700-1800 rpm / geared down 2.47:1) 700 rpm. Should not make a lot of noise... :-)
@robertscholz4486
Жыл бұрын
Once again I am astonished with how much space you are opening up ... until you stood in the engine compartment in this episode, I did not realize how deep it was (the floor was up to your waist!!) As for the engine I feel that moving it back further toward the stern and shortening the propeller shaft could be a good thing to gain space for tankage, however without having the benefit of knowing your plans for the new layout of the bulkheads and compartment configurations it is difficult to say whether I think it will work. For instance, if you plan on adding 100 meters of 5/16 anchor chain and a 40 kg anchor, that would displace about 180 kg in the forward chain locker, and add to that the weight of shifting the fuel load forward of the engine (it looked to be about a 285 liter tank, so 240 kg) and then add in the water tanks as well moved forward, so another 570 kg (for two 285 liter water tanks). As long as you can keep the balance along the length of the ship it could work, but again, I don't yet know the plans for all of the bulkhead, stringers, and built-in furniture to be added. As to the engine base I feel that the stainless steel base might be a good addition for longevity, however that movement that you have in the current configuration is also helping to displace much of the engine vibration which might otherwise be transferred to the hull. I might suggest a compromise with a marine grade 2 x 4 at the bottom, a 5 cm strip of dense rubber, and then the stainless steel mounting rail. Keeping the vibration from transferring to the hull is a good thing, as over time the vibration can cause cracks and separation at the localized stringers -- there is some rubber in most motor mount configurations, but I would not count solely on that to stop the vibration from transferring to the hull. This is likely why the manufacturer decided to use wood in the first place. As always i look forward to seeing the next step in the refit ... keep up the good work!!!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hello, Robert. Thanks for communicating your advices in detail. Yes, this boat is a hugh little bath-tub. My wife calls it a "Donald Duck"-boat, due to its puffy shape :-D This is a heavy boat, for its size. 6.6 tonnes and shifting 5-600 kg slightly forward or aft should not be a game-changer, I hope. I am afraid the vibration in the old engine bed will lead to the bolts keeping this in place, are getting metal fatigue and simply break off, probably at the worst time possible. There is no way I keep this without strengthening the engine bed. I will investigate about the 5 cm dense rubber. Interesting proposal. :-)
@mickey1299
Жыл бұрын
Yeah i'm afraid i have to agree with @barney2001 . I would be very wary of moving what is obviously a heavy engine . Fisher boats probably spent a great deal on design , and would almost certainly have taken balance and weight figures into consideration
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your advice, Mickey. So leave the engine as is (with a stronger engine bed).
@mickey1299
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad Yeah i'm afraid , that exactly what i would do . Let me put it this way , not all motorsailer's can sail , but all sail boats can motorsail . This is the principle reason i've never warmed to motorsailers . I love the concept , but in practice very few appear to be able to sail upwind . A limiting factor that we know can at best be a pain , at worst dam-right dangerous . With that said , the Fairways range did actually sail up wind , and actually very well , that is why they were so successful . I've heard they were a Colin Archer design , and they certainly do follow his traits , by i seem to remember some one else actually designed the 30 . The concept was simple , to take a family of four , anywhere they may wish to go , in total safety ! , and that's it . To that end several sea keeping abilities would almost certainly have been taken into account , like the ballast/weight ratio , and stability factor . Now this leads me to another point , the engine . I though the engine beds looked a bit of a hash up . They were way too short for that engine , and there was no way i couldn't see Fairways quality control signing off on that , the concussion i came to , was it's not the original engine . So i did a little research , and i'm afraid i was right . The original engine was a 35 hp , naturally aspirated Volvo MD3B , 3 cylinder diesel . What you have there looks to be a 4 cylinder , certainly a turbocharged unit . That is the reason those engine beds are so poor . Fairways designed their boat with 5hp per tonne , and considered that to be perfectly in line for their original concept , i mentioned above .
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@mickey1299 Hello again, Mickey. You are absolutely right, this Nanni is not the original engine. The Fisher 30 very often had the Volvo MD3B you specified. According to the first owner - who actually contacted me after seeing these videos - told me this had a Volvo 30 HP. According to the previous owner (that sold to me) the engine was on the smaller side when fighting the Norwegian Fjords on the bow and was also ready to be released. So he bought this slowrunner Nanni 60HP, 5 years ago, new then. Running this engine on about half speed is enough to reach hull speed. Lots of extra power. I do agree that all sailboats can motorsail, but not all sailboats motors well. Most sailboats are underpowered. My previous First 32.5 had 18 HP and was a nightmare to motor in tight spaces when there was a certain amount of wind. My friends Comfortina 42 has 50HP, which is better, but not much. Since I live in western Norway, and therefore has a majority of days with rain, I find a motorsailer like this Fisher a great idea. It is all about picking which skills you want your boat to have (cant have them all....). The Fisher 30 I believe was a Fairways design. But this boat is a Fisher 30 Northeaster, and there is a difference not only with the aft cabin. The hull of the Northeaster is about 35cm (one foot) wider than the Fisher 30. I believe that was done by cutting the hull in two pieces, from bow to stearn. Then widening the keel and putting som extra here and there, gluing it together again. It was done to make small fishingboats, and giving the hull more buoyancy for a heavier cargo (fish). Then Fairways picked up interest in the wider hull to make the Northeaster. I have never sailed it so the performance is yet to be revealed. I used to have a fast trimaran so I do not have high expectations in that regards. As a Norwegian I am quite familiar with the Colin Archers and they are VERY seaworthy boats. I find comfort in the fact that the designers of the Fishers found inspiration from the Colin Archers. 🙂
@sailorgerard
Жыл бұрын
I like your idea of aluminum engine supports, why not use bolts with rubber dampeners, like they use in cars for engine mounts?
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your input. The engine actually do have rubber engine mounts. I will keep these. In the end I decided to go for plywood, glassed in and an extension of the engine mount. :-)
@mikewilson631
Жыл бұрын
I would be very careful about removing structural items, as this will seriously weaken the hull. Not too much of a problem in port but you may get slow distortion and you may now have big problems if you need to lift the boat out for some reason.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for advising me, Mike. The structural items are already weakened so pushing on with new ones instead cannot be a bad thing, I presume. :-)
@williammcdonnell3748
Жыл бұрын
steel with heavy rubber mounts will reduce the noise
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, WIlliam, for your input!
@martinjames9250
Жыл бұрын
WOW! 😮 We're not messing about are we! I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. 👍
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Me too, Martin. This is a long path to go and I have no clear map (plan). :-)
@user-kc9by9ib2w
Жыл бұрын
ДЛЯ МЕНЯ ШОК.ЧТО ТАК ДЁШЕВО.СОБРАНО. МЫЛЬНИЦА НА 10 ЛЕТ. ФУНДАМЕНТНЫЕ БАЛКИ СТАВЬТЕ ИЗ АМГ. И ВСЕ ПЕРЕБОРКИ ИЗ АМГ.И БАКИ ТОПЛИВНЫЕ ИЗ АМГ. УДАЧИ ВАМ .С УВАЖЕНИЕМ .КИЕВ.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting. A bit hard for me to translate, but I think I got the point of using AMG. But what is AMG?
@user-yq5yg9qm8k
Жыл бұрын
i believe he meant 3.3555 or AlMg5 (German spec)
@jabirucru6970
Жыл бұрын
How will moving engine aft affect the centre of gravity?? I think extending the bottom wood engine bearers and staying with wood.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Spot on! Watch the video released on june, 25th. :-)
@JW-ni7gr
Жыл бұрын
IMO leave the engine where it is. Changing the weight distribution while not knowing the impact seems like a big risk for gaining a little space.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hello J W. That is also an advice. Keep things where it works and keep the risk and work down. I might go for that :-)
@alan-sk7ky
Жыл бұрын
If you move the engine back, you could gain a little more saloon space when you rebuild, that said are there other bilge spaces a fuel tank(s) could be placed?
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Yes, Alan, my main motivation for moving the dieseltank is that it blocked for access to the propellershaft and gear area. There are other places to install the diesel/water tank.
@bustermv
Жыл бұрын
So, you are dismantling the entire interior? Good idea, but do you have blue prints or measurements from which to fabricate new replacements?? Asking for a concerned friend
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
So, Hunter, a concerned friend? For this almost ruined Fisher? Oh, hope I am not offending him/her with my approach. Yes, I am removing most all the interior. And I do not have any blueprints or measurements as it will not be rebuild like it was. The interior used to be fitted to berth 6 persons and be a bit "something for everyone". I will mostly sail on my own so then rather make "not something for everyone, but everything to someone". Sorry for being lyrical about this, but could not resist the temptation :-D
@bustermv
Жыл бұрын
Sail on yer own? Yes, man/men go to sea in ships, but why not with a crew to admire your craftsmanship in refitting and skill at the helm?? A nordic blond is not to be overlooked either, my friend would say…
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@bustermv Oh, most people cannot take the time to go longer distances. I do also enjoy high quality alone-time. Regarding friends they bring their own boat, and we all anchor somewhere wild. Being the son of a sea captain also helps... Lots of reasons to focus on making the interior to fit mostly my own needs. I will - however - make two twin-beds, so no problem for two couples to go sailing together 😊👍
@hepontour
Жыл бұрын
How do you know what came off where ie remember what to replace ?
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Steven, I wont! Not trying to. The plan is to clear most all and custom build from there something that suits my needs as a single sailer (with wife sometimes).
@Greggspies
Жыл бұрын
Go tail drive like in Thailand, easier to service ha!
@4437RR
Жыл бұрын
I find it odd, that in a place as rich in boat building history as Norway, you are asking anonymous strangers, with no accountability for their advise, to guide your major renovations to a proven boat design. It seems to me that investing some money in a professional (Marine Architect or Surveyor) review of your plans/ideas would be a good, if not essential investment. If you need a survey for insurance purposes and all the hidden changes are not up to standard, you may be in trouble. Even if you do not need insurance (??), think of your own liability and also the resale situation. I recomend caution😮.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
I understand your point of view and grateful for your advice. Norway do have a rich boat building history and are still producing high-tech smaller boats. It is therefore hard to explain that this experience is not something that is available to anyone. And if it was, then the costs would of that consultant would be $$$$. Also, being a man in my later 50ies, I do enjoy the communication this digital KZitem channel provides, discussing cross borders. I am very relaxed towards this project and I am going to do this going my own path. I am very relaxed towards the resale. In my mind selling is not an option. I am very familiar with boats and do have a sense of what should be the correct path. But I do get a lot of valuable input from complete strangers and I love it! :-)
@oleham
Жыл бұрын
du hørres ut så erik anderaa når du drar på i stemmen
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Den var ny :-D Er ikke ute etter å kopiere Anderaa. Har full respekt for hans prosjekter, med heftige singlehanded turer opp i kjøligere områder :-)
@oleham
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad tror Ikkje du ska vær så redd for å føle du kopiere han. Det var bare en gang så eg har hørt når du trøkker på med stemma :D tror nok aanderaa hadde ledd selv :) btw det er ein fin båt du har håper du bygger den til noe særpreget eget :) eneste kjøkkenet du beskriver kommer Ikkje til og vær så effektivt da båten er for smal, ville heller hatt kjøkkenet i en L fasong med kjøkkenbenk mot veggen inn til forpiggen og litt i skottesida sånn at du får utnyttet plassen meir og det vill føles ennda mere åpent :) gler meg til fortsettelsen :)
@omvaren
Жыл бұрын
I love your Zelensky imitations!
@Marshmish
Жыл бұрын
He'll find that harder to maintain that the boat I can assure you. and no it greats on my nerves as its false and prefer people to be themselves.
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
I was not aware I was sounding like Zelensky. Not my intention anyway. I just try to keep my energy high as I am not familiar being in front of the camera. I will improve. :-)
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Hi Marshall. As you see of my response to "omvaren" I am not trying to imitate, just trying to keep high energy as I am not a "pro" in front of a camera. Sorry for any offence.
@Marshmish
Жыл бұрын
@@hsobstad Yes I understand that and mean no offence I just wish you'd be yourself and you really won't be able to maintain that way of talking because it will hurt your voice box over time. No negativity intended if fact just the opposite.✌
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
@@Marshmish Thanks for detailing, Marshall. Over time, you might discover, that I am myself, much more than one should think. I am impulsive, playful, always have songs playing in my head, stribing to live life here and now and not taking life too seriously. 🙂
@williamturner1517
Жыл бұрын
Go buy a new boat!!
@hsobstad
Жыл бұрын
Probably a wise idea, William. For most people. Not for me. I like the idea of working the boat, and will love it because I have put a lot of work into it. And the old lines of this hull.... Hard to find on new boats... :-)
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