I don't want to wear anyone out on comments but, I started mechancing when I was 17 because I wouldn't go to school. Worked in a shop as full line mechanic. Now am 63. I owned a small engine shop, I was amazed how many so called mechanics couldn't work on small engines even diesel mechanics. 1 cylinder engines have to be basicly all correct to run right and hold up. Example on a v8 maybe 6 cylinders are correct and 2 not, and nobody knows. At 63 I still do small engine work also atv's , utv's. I've seen so much stuff that mechanics have distroyed. Assume-ing will bite you in the ass every time! I can not express how much I appreciate you taking the time to do videos passing in your knowlege and experience. Everyone learns something from it.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
You are very welcome!!
@hughobrien4139
Жыл бұрын
I have a home based automotive machine shop. In 30 plus years I had never had one single instance of a cam going flat. Start my own shop build a few engines and I had one go flat year before last. It literally rubbed a hole through the bottom of the lifter. Of course I’ll state that I check and double check my valve spring rates and coil bind. Seal to retainer clearance. It is a must in the custom engine line of work. This is one major aspect that separates my work from the reman industry. That one particular engine had also mysteriously wiped out the cam bearings. Front three cam bearings lessening to no wear on the back cam bearing. It nearly wore entirely through the front cam bearing. This was a major problem. I couldn’t afford to fix too many of these problems else I’d be shut down. I had to try and figure it out. The cam mains never appeared to have seized the cam bearing material appeared to have been mashed flat and kept running. It was a FE engine with the groove in two cam mains. The bearings had formed into that groove. After many hours of scrutiny and scratching my head I finally gave up and began to reassemble the engine with a new hydraulic roller set up I paid for. When I picked up the front cover I found out immediately what had caused the issue. The customer had installed the fuel pump on the front cover and had used a bolt that was too long. That bolt busted off the back side of the bolt hole. A piece or pieces of cast aluminum about the diameter of quarter and about .080” thick had broken off the front cover. The oil slinger on the snout of the crank shaft left absolutely nowhere for those pieces to go other than on top of the crankshaft timing gear. That piece got wedged between the timing chain and gear and shrapnel was scattered. I found pieces of cast aluminum shrapnel imbedded all over the inside of the front cover. It was evidently violent. I didn’t find any debris in the oil pan initially. Just dark powdered material from the cam lobes and lifters. The oil pump and pick up screen appeared to be clear upon first glance with the old oil still in and on those parts. After I cleaned those parts off I found that more cast aluminum was inside the pickup tube and I can not figure out how pieces the size I pulled out of the pick up tube got passed the screen. The gears of the oil pump and housing appeared clear with no gouges or foreign material but after cleaning thoroughly it was very clear that cast aluminum particles were smeared all over the inside of the oil pump as well. It was very difficult to see these issues when the parts were cleaned off. No way to have seen them with the oil on them. I thought I’d share these details for others in this line of work to learn from. A fuel pump install is pretty basic but it can bring devastating consequences if someone of it paying attention. My confidence in cam and lifter cores was of course diminished after this. In spite of knowing the cause. This demonstration helps me out a great deal. I’m trying to abstain from flat tappet cams right now. However if your company is rebuilding them I’ll certainly be willing to send some work that way. Thank you for your time and information.
@timothybayliss6680
Жыл бұрын
I have seen a bunch of 305 engines that ate the lifters and lobes at the front of the cam. The front four lifters will have a concave surface on the face and the lobes are almost gone. It was the last bunch of flat tappet cars that ended up getting low zddp oil because thats what is on the shelf in cars that idled a bunch. It did happen years ago.
@michaelkeyes3856
9 ай бұрын
Thank you all for sharing
@dadgarage7966
9 ай бұрын
This is a reason I try not to assemble things with an impact driver. It's quick but . . . .
@highrzr
Жыл бұрын
Spot on! It's generally not a hardness issue. It's generally an issue with the cam lobe taper or the lifter crown not enabling the lifter to rotate.
@jesse75
Жыл бұрын
It's easy to decipher if crown and tapper are set up correct.
@EdselMoody
9 ай бұрын
Iovetheinfo❤❤
@Haffschlappe
5 ай бұрын
And worn or gunked up lifter bors
@Hillbillygarage1215
Ай бұрын
I love this channel. The straight story, no himhawin around. My kinda guy!
@powellmachineinc3179
Ай бұрын
Tyvm
@BLR_Race_Engines
Ай бұрын
Great video. I hear this from customers all the time myself. I'm glad you cleared that up. Unfortunately, most people won't listen. Great shop by the way. My videos only show my assembly area and not machine equipment. At this point I am outsourcing some of my stuff because of the overhead issue. I hope you can Keep making the great educational videos. All I build is gen-1 Chevys. They are abundant with everyone going LS. Have a Great Day sir. Buddy Langford. BLR Race Engine's.
@powellmachineinc3179
Ай бұрын
Tyvm! We really appreciate that 🙏
@WhiteKnight5775
9 ай бұрын
I like that he has "facts" and not opinions. Love machine shop videos.
@babaoreally8220
Жыл бұрын
I was not aware of a thing called cam lobe taper till now.How many have noticed that when a lifter is dropped into its bore,it does not rest center to center of the cam lobe.There is an offset where a portion of the lifter hangs beyond the lobe.I always believed that this eccentric design was what caused the lifter and pushrod to rotate.This rotation also distributes spring load continuously on a different area as the lifter rotates.This lengthens the lifter’s life by preventing heat buildup caused by the cam lobe wiping continuously on the same area of the lifter.If your pushrod does not spin,the valve lash is not set properly or there’s a cam/ lifter problem.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
All flat cams have the lobes offset to promote rotation, lash has nothing to do with rotation.
@babaoreally8220
Жыл бұрын
@@powellmachineinc3179 In years past I have investigated a noisy hydraulic lifter or lifters on my cars.This might be due to a rocker stud or a sloppy nut.upon pulling the valve covers,I have also observed pushrods that do not spin,like the others.However,upon loosening the rocker nut slightly,they,also,begin to rotate like the others.This is just a backyard mechanic’s observations.Hydraulics are basically zero lash lifters,be a relationship between how tight the rockers are and the lifter rotation.I have,however,never owned a solid lifter powered car,so they may be different.Anyhow,the slight taper across the lobe is an interesting fact that new to me.
@baby-sharkgto4902
Жыл бұрын
This man is telling FACTS. No speculation BS here. I have been a gearhead, go fast mechanic for almost 40 years and it’s not often that I get to learn anything anymore, but I learned two things watching this video, thank you! You have *earned* my sub
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you sir!! We appreciate you!!
@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259
Жыл бұрын
Agree! ;)
@kennethcoogler7904
3 ай бұрын
I have never heard of cam lobe taper but it definitely makes sense.. you are definitely on top of what you are doing..
@powellmachineinc3179
3 ай бұрын
Ty
@raymorin5516
Жыл бұрын
just had a Jegs Cam lobe go flat on me, Proper oil and break-in procedure done, it's the second hydraulic flat tappet in 2 engines in a year that have done the same thing. I am currently installing a Howards retro fit roller, should have just spent the extra $$ in the beginning.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, we tell customers that daily, we have all but stopped doing Flat tappet cams, we only grind rollers now.
@5hawks
Жыл бұрын
Great videos, very informative. A shop that still cares about what they're doing. Thank you.
@Texasmule
Жыл бұрын
Lifters lack the crown that is needed to keep them rotating after mating with the cam lobes. I had to replace 2 lifters that were brand new out the box and so did my dad.
@jpop2499
Жыл бұрын
This is a great video with hard facts. Thank you! Please show us how to measure the taper you mentioned and how you achieve the taper on the cams you grind.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching!
@andretorben9995
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video. good info and the test results make the situation much more clear. Seems the issues are not to do with cam cores or materials, likewise with the lifters, The issues fall back onto the lobe grind angle and lifter crowns.
@woodey028
8 ай бұрын
Great video. Definitely clears up the rumors of soft cam cores.
@powellmachineinc3179
8 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@frfrpr
6 ай бұрын
Love the video. This is one of the most informative videos on engines I've seen. Thanks
@powellmachineinc3179
6 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@pauljanssen7594
Жыл бұрын
There used to be a cam company in the '70s and '80s guaranteed whether hydraulic or flat tablet it would fail boils down to spring tension when your breaking in the cam and making sure in the engine is timed so it fires right up proper breaking lube back in the day I used to use the GM additive oil wasn't like it was nowadays. PS when you learn how to work on VW engines timing valve adjustment it teaches you how to work on any engine especially how the Germans would adjust wheel bearings that is amazing.
@dbdave92
Жыл бұрын
At the school I went to we had a machine that spun the engine to check out pressure and well mark each push rod to check for it spinning if one didn't spin something was wrong and we sorted it out before starting it.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Love the name!!!
@markconley9279
9 ай бұрын
I’ve always understood it was because zinc being removed from engine oil due to environmental concerns. A zinc additive is recommended for break in and would be a good idea to use for one or two oil changes.
@porksboy
9 ай бұрын
Years ago in the early to mid 80s I replaced a lot of cams in trucks that were less than 150k miles. The cam lobes would be worn down as you show. I could find no reason for it and could not look on line or KZitem back in the dark ages of no internet. I later found what I thought to be the answer. I learned that due to the advent of Catalytic converters Zinc was removed from the oil formulations due to it clogging the cats. I have some engines, mainly 4 cylinders in small British cars that have no cats on them. I use oil formulated for off road diesel tractors that has Zinc in it. I also have learned that there is a zinc additive available for oil. I dont put a lot of miles on my toy cars but I have not encountered any issues using a zinc oil.
@shanerorko8076
Жыл бұрын
It's a shame here in Australia over the past 10 years three of our best cam shops have closed, it makes it difficult to get good machining done when machinists are going out of business. I might have to go to NZ to get some lifters ground and a cam custom ground.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Yes, shops closing is a problem everywhere, I feel your pain
@mikebrown4429
Жыл бұрын
I put a amc 360 together earlier this year using a bullet racing cam with.512 lift . I used lots of cam break in lube , Rotela t4 and Lucas break in zink additive. Used oem springs. Also I used 15 nos flat tappet lifters and sealed power China lifter. Pre filled carb and got the ignition timing advanced a little. Engine fired up quickly enough and I took the rpms up to 2000 rite away . Ram for 25 minutes with about 55 psi oil pressure. After the cam break In period in pulled the intake to inspect the lifters. I put the China lifter in the no.1 exhaust position to ensure I would know where it was. The 15 nos lifters broke in perfectly but the China lifter had 12:24 circular groves worn into the face and it was almost flat . I didn’t use the China lifter because I wanted to, but because that was what I could find. I would like to send you the picture of the lifters .
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Sure,
@mikebrown4429
Жыл бұрын
@@powellmachineinc3179 I’m not sure how to send a picture
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Go through the website
@Scubasteve22
3 ай бұрын
The only time i have had a flat tappet failure, was when it was something i did wrong. There is an elephant in the room though. That is the oil side of things. As I'm learning over the years and keeping up with technology, I'm learning from Lake Speed that the zinc additive you can buy for cam break in could be the cause. It is better to just buy the break in oil and skip the additive, as I have done for years and been wrong! Things are going way better since changed that process.
@BretPowell
Жыл бұрын
Appreciated this video. Shed a little light on some of what we've seen lately.
@NissenAutomotiveAngier
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for answering that part of the big question.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@hutchjohnson2184
Жыл бұрын
Buick: '50's 60's Nailheads had ZERO lifter rotation by design. '67 and up 400/430/455 DID have "normal" rotation. Possibly the cam grinder forgot to put the taper in for a later Buick big block.
@wdhewson
9 ай бұрын
I used to troubleshot GM cam lobe failures. It was almost always due to induction hardening failure as the Eddy current process failed from low coil power!
@msh6865
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video and you seemed to debunk at least one myth/urban legend about cams and lifters being soft. So, it seems bad or nonexistent lobe taper along with lifter face taper may be the culprit? If so, that's a QC issue. Could be bad manufacturing processes or faulty equipment. One side note...i have always asked machine shops to do a light hone on the lifter bores of any engine block that I have had hot tanked. Might be overkill but, I worry about egg-shaped bores and core shift in old blocks. Not sure if it was always necessary but, couldn't hurt.
@russcoffell3560
Жыл бұрын
You're a wealth of knowledge excellent video. Thank you for sharing.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
You are welcome!
@aramirez8427
9 ай бұрын
Outstanding research, Thank you for great video
@powellmachineinc3179
9 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@reaveschassisworks5554
6 ай бұрын
I have built engines for last 26yrs and I have never had a flat tappet cam fail. I have always put cheap oil in engine crank it up with no water ran to head got warm. I done this 3 times the forth time engine is full of oil and I run engine at 2000 rpm for 25 min. I change oil to good oil I cut filter apart looking for metal. With engine at 2000 rpm the oil is splashing a lot of oil on the camshaft. I check lifter turn while building the engine, imo a lot of flat tappet camshaft failure is from not the proper break in .
@haffrods7055
Жыл бұрын
I worry constantly about flattening a lobe on hydraulic flat tappets. I use Comp break in oil and a bottle of their break in lube. I use a drill and prime engine, rotate, prime, rotate, prime until oil is dripping off rocker tips. I break in for around 20 to 25 minutes with RPM up. I've not had issues yet. I talked to a Comp Cam tech on the phone probably 12 ish years ago. He said to run stock valve springs or remove center spring for 500 miles. So a stiffer spring is not good during break in. Does this seam like a sensible cause for early cam failure. I have just been running stock valve springs on my sbc's since they're just drivers and not race cars. I usually buy the Summit line of cams with their lifters. Not sure who they're made by.
@jamesmccrory2552
Жыл бұрын
I’m 73 and that’s the reason I went to roller in the 70’s
@PaulCTownsend
9 ай бұрын
I also had a problem with my FE when I installed the billet roller cam it kept chewing up the distributor gears. So I bought a new gear sent it off had it hardened and so far that's working just fine years ago. This FE build was no fun at all.
@pault4513
Жыл бұрын
Spent 27 years at a truck dealership built and repaired too many 5.9 cummins with flat tappets always assembled them with 105 luberplate and never had a come back cam issue i wonder why
@copperaudio9664
11 ай бұрын
Very informative - Thank you.
@powellmachineinc3179
11 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@patrickwendling6759
9 ай бұрын
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
@powellmachineinc3179
9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@Cleatus46
5 ай бұрын
Interesting. Since you are no longer dealing with the flat tappet stuff, are there any problems with the roller lifter needle bearings? What is your opinion of the Isky rollers with bushings? Thanks.
@powellmachineinc3179
5 ай бұрын
Bushing are great for high load applications
@arthurrodesiler3109
Жыл бұрын
I always hone my lifter bores with a flex hone and engine oil just enough to clean them up then clean the lifter bore and install a lifter and feel for to tight or to loose. If they are you need to find the problem. I wonder if you could blueing up the cam ramps and then the bottom of the lifters and just put the cam timing gear on and rotate the cam while putting pressure on the lifter to see if you get a good contact before you put everything together and get a flat cam and you no the work and money down the drain. I have done this with all my cams 20 plus years ago and only found one problem was a bad lifter bore at the bottom of the lifter bore. Never had a cam go bad on me. Would checking like this before you put eveything together and the cam go be a good thing to try. I always did just to be safe as other people had cams go flat back then also? Not as bad as today though.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Yes, looking at the pattern would be a good practice
@hvspeed6102
Жыл бұрын
Great video, thank you. Is there a way, to check/ measure/ verify the taper on the cam lobes, and the crown on the lifter, before installing them in the engine? I know by holding two lifters together, some of the crown can be seen, but that’s just a guess. If you were sent a new cam and lifters, could you check it and verify? As well as checking the hardness on both? Thanks.
@glennsouthard9208
Жыл бұрын
Using a micrometer, measure the lobe on each edge. Should be .002”-.003” difference. That’s your taper. Use a precision straight edge on the lifter faces to check for crown.
@hvspeed6102
Жыл бұрын
@@glennsouthard9208 thanks!
@Haffschlappe
5 ай бұрын
How good or Bad are enginetech cams and tappets?
@powellmachineinc3179
5 ай бұрын
Most are import, it will say country of origin on the box
@hiramwilson3438
Жыл бұрын
Can someone reuse a cam with new lifter?
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely
@sgtyork9330
9 ай бұрын
Only cam I lost was an L-88 427 solid cam. Low miles, but the guy who sold it to me misnumbered the order of the lifters. First engine I built that failed.
@roberthirshfield3571
9 ай бұрын
I’ve been lucky I just rebuilt my 351 c using a hydraulic cam been fine so far
@carmo9693
9 ай бұрын
That Rockwell hardness work, is it a pressure applied, is that the deal?
@powellmachineinc3179
9 ай бұрын
Yes, how far a diamond will penitrate with x pressure
@henrysmith8012
10 ай бұрын
Its gotten so bad that im thinking of pulling my Isky flat tappet out my 355 to go in my 383 stroker motor. The isky cam has been running 15 years and is great.
@stevepowell8866
9 ай бұрын
I'm really curious what brand that Buick cam is, I'm in the process of building a big block Buick right now.
@Motor-City-Mike
Жыл бұрын
I haven't wiped one yet (was in the business over ten years) but I noticed long ago that the finish on the bottom of the lifters kept getting more & more course - to where it would file a fingernail, which would eat a cam lobe in seconds if not addressed - that's about the time the failures started to be common, a long time ago (2000s) and its just getting worse and worse. The 'white box'(Chinese) parts started it all.
@larryw5429
Жыл бұрын
The problem is that these cam and lifter outsourced their products and the people that they bought from to make orders didn't also outsourced their supplies from multiple areas and it all mixes together and wrecks the whole market and makes it untrustworthy! You might have a box of lifters with 15 good ones with the right lifter specs and you get 1 with out of spec and motor is junk in minutes! I will never run a flat tappet cam unless they guarantee it won't smoke my motor and they will never put their money where their mouth is!
@jonv1691
Жыл бұрын
every cam I've bought in this last year have been engle. each has pits under the black nitrate. very rough pit like a rust pit . These pit are casting flaws and on the crown
@charlessmoak
9 ай бұрын
Lack of zinc . It was removed from oil as it caused cat. failure. That is why manufacturers started installing roller lifters in factory engines.The zinc had to go and flat tappets need zinc to properly survive. I always add to flat tappet motors . Correct me if I am wrong.
@powellmachineinc3179
9 ай бұрын
we debunked that long ago, racing oil doesnt fall in the "low Zinc" catagory
@jimflammer9370
9 ай бұрын
On a 2021 5.3l V-8 Chevy Silverado I had a lifter failure at 3900 miles, bent the push rods on a couple of cylinders, the dealer replaced the all lifters and bent push rods, is there a chance the cam is damaged and the dealer did not do a complete repair?
3 ай бұрын
The guy with the big block Buick is probably or was probably having oiling issues. The 455 is notorious for difficulty in getting the oil pump primed and that goes for the Pontiac and Buick 455.
@powellmachineinc3179
3 ай бұрын
Cam lobes are not oiled from a oil pump
@bobwhite4344
8 ай бұрын
interesting vid.
@powellmachineinc3179
8 ай бұрын
Glad you think so!
@stoneyswolf
9 ай бұрын
Years ago these modern synthetic oils didn't exist. We'd install a cam and lifters run it at 2k rpm for 20-30 minutes running water over the radiator so it wouldn't get hot then drive the hell out of it no issues. It's gotta be the oil you need a good breakin oil.
@MarineGrunt
7 ай бұрын
This thread is probably too far back in the lineup to get an answer . However , here's my question . We know by now , through your testing and opinions , along with several others , that the grind pattern and taper on both lifters and cams is why many combos are failing on break in or shortly after . The obvious answer is ' the guy that grinds the cam should also be the one who grinds the lifters . Then taper is correct and each part matches the other . Now I'm seeing ads that push the DLC coating . DLC is great stuff all by itself , but it does not address the incorrect taper / grind that caused the issue to begin with . I dislike using manufacturers names usually , but Comp Cams are the ones advertising the DLC coating . Have they adopted the process of grinding both cam and lifters correctly , then DLC coated the parts , or have they simply coated batch produced parts ....leaving the original problem unaddressed . We know DLC coatings are slicker than snot , but will the DLC contact patch impart the needed friction between parts to spin the lifters / pushrods , etc . Thanks for your time and experience .
@michaelgiglio1571
Жыл бұрын
Good to get trade knolage. Can you show us more on flat tappit lifters, pumpups vs antipumpups, oil holes n stuff please mate mike
@rusty1161
Жыл бұрын
Great information. Can we measure or check lifter crown at home? And the same for lobe taper? Thank you.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
With the right equipment yes, but you Machine should should be able to without to much trouble.
@OldBeaterGarage
Жыл бұрын
A quick check is set the lifter faces on top of each other or place them on a glass table top. You'll know real quick if there's no crown.
@scottrobertson6949
Жыл бұрын
You can check the taper of lobes with an outside micrometer. Just measure outside edges of the base circle. You want .002-.0025 optimally. You can easily check the radius of a lifter by putting it on the side of another lifter. Ensure both surfaces are clean and dry. The bottom of the lifter is meant to have a radius not be sharpened like a pencil ✏️. On a V8 don't install the intake manifold until you mark all the lifters with a paint pen and ensure they rotate as you turn the engine over. The lifter is designed to roll over the lobe like a tapered roller bearing. ZDDP in the right ppm seems to be imperative, 1600ppm>. As a side note-When I was a young nieve backyard engine builder we would even put used lifters on used performance cams from other engines with stiffer than stock springs and surprisingly we didn't loose lobes. No special break-in oil, just normally any 20w50 that was reasonably priced. That's why they are probably called the 'good old days' LOL.
@perfectlyoutoforder2840
Жыл бұрын
@@scottrobertson6949 To check for lifter rotation do I have to use the starter (rpm) or would turning the crank by hand already be enough?
@howardcameron1541
10 ай бұрын
Thank You.
@powellmachineinc3179
10 ай бұрын
Yw!
@ruxoneto6560
Жыл бұрын
Had Ls6 big block it wiped out cam lobes some were good some were bad .had lifter bores redone .cured problem .
@dantupper1784
Жыл бұрын
Thank You for the info.
@ronbz455
Жыл бұрын
So the taper on the lobe has to be close to the cam or what is the measurement there?
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
It's relative, the width of the lobe and diameter of lifter will determine that.
@ldnwholesale8552
Жыл бұрын
A solid lifter cam is a flat tappet cam, a hydraulic cam is not as it has a very slight bulge on the face. Lifters should be harder on the face, the heat treating is only quite thin. Refacing lifters generally takes off the heat treating. It seems that many lifters and cams are not made properly,, that and modern valve springs are a good deal stiffer than in the past.Even on stock cams often. It does depend on the brand of engine as well,, eg here in Oz the Holden V8s eat lifters, many were 'gone' at 2-3 years old. Some replacements lasted longer than OEM and others ate up very quickly. I have changed a LOT of them. Clevos and LS Mopar V8s do not have the same appetite for them as the Holdens. Chevs are better than Holdens, but not great either.. But I have changed more Chev cams than Fords. Falcon 6 Cross Flows eat rockers, Cleveland rocker @ 1.73. But the lifters generally live [again Clevo] Holden V8s do this as well but not as bad as Falcons. Yet I have ran solid lifter cams in Chev race engines for many years on the same cam. Roller even better. A little conservative on cam specs but were bedded in on the springs to be used. Ditto hydraulic race cam for a Clevo.
@Rospajother
6 ай бұрын
Case hardened ?
@powellmachineinc3179
6 ай бұрын
No
@robertstewart2356
7 ай бұрын
And the company that sold the cam should be notified of the problem
@jeffreyrstapler
9 ай бұрын
What can be done to an 89 Chevy Silverado with a 305 with 200k to get more performance without sacrificing reliability? Refresh ? Cam? Bore? It came stripped down with only A/C. No smog pumps. It looks basic.
@flinch622
Жыл бұрын
CWC - foundry work. Ok, that's half a loaf. But cores are unground, and surface hardening needs grinding to be pretty near done before taking place.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Iron core are hard through, billet cores that are induction hardened roughly. 250 deep.
@kepler240
3 ай бұрын
interesting
@jagco2594
Жыл бұрын
wow thanks for this info.
@rickmartin7062
Жыл бұрын
I was checking out the phone number on the back of her shirt this company is it located near Anderson SC ??
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Yes, in Iva, just south of Anderson
@seahorse5677
Жыл бұрын
100% of the flat tappet failures I've seen are due to unclean oil galleys. Abrasive material left in the oil galleys of a fresh block that damages the cam and lifter surfaces or the internals of the lifters.
@immanutt4442
Жыл бұрын
wayment ... you mean gallery/galleries
@4thdimensiontravels855
9 ай бұрын
@@immanutt4442galley is the flat area, gallery is a passage.
@chauvinemmons
9 ай бұрын
One of the biggest problems I see especially with all these new engines is that the cams are not bathed in oil the valley is dry it used to be like on a small block Chevrolet there was so much oil pouring down from above onto the cam.
@7CAJONEZ
2 ай бұрын
Regarding high rpm break in, that makes no sense, ever. The cam turns 300 rpm at 600 rpm idle. The lobes are actually pushing the lifters ~1/3 of that, duration of ~120°. So about 100 lifts per minute or 1.7 per second. You can blink or tap your finger thrice as fast, for perspective. This is trivial and breakin grease or even oil is plenty. When you raise the rpm 4 times idle like many recommend you have increased the velocity at which the lobe approaches the lifter and the speed that the lobe wipes accross the lifter thus increasing friction dramatically. Like starting a fire by twisting a stick on a piece of wood slowly vs very fast. And pump oil pressure at lifter bore and crank slinging takes a few seconds. Someone should make a test rig of an engine with cam, only 2 lifters and 2 valves and springs. Put a motor turning 300 rpm on the cam with NO lubricant and measure the temperature rise vs time. If the surfaces are hardened properly there should be no wear. Then raise the rpm to 1200. A drill or lathe tool with no lube experiences much higher pressures and dont dull unless the rpm is very high. Best of all, get a sixties GMC V6, the cam is IN a pool of oil at all times. As far as rings seating, use a bit of thin oil and low rpm. High rpm break-in makes no sense. The opposite, low rpm does make sense. No car factory ever breaks in an engine first start, not ever, for over 120 years. Start the engine, drive it to the parking lot, turn it off. How many engines have been stored for 1, 30, 70 years but start and run fine? Abandoned in a field? No lube at all, dry.
@petersouthernboy6327
Жыл бұрын
I would never go flat tappet on an American OHV engine these days. Roller hydraulic.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
💯
@greatalaska6429
Жыл бұрын
Better mic it before install.
@jamesmccrory2552
Жыл бұрын
Too much spring pressure for the lubrication
@ronsmith7739
Жыл бұрын
I get tired of this, since 1994 the EPA has reduced motor oils to near zero on ZDDP, thats why the flat tappet cam failure. Use roller lifters only, they have been rollers since the 1980's. Flat tappets is a waste of time.
@tomstrum6259
Жыл бұрын
The ZDDP motor oil Content has only been Reduced to 1/2 the Original Ppm amounts.....Claiming "Near Zero" is a misleading Exaggeration of the current oils...
@ronsmith7739
Жыл бұрын
@@tomstrum6259 At some point in time the EPA will go to zero on ZDDP. The EPA is trying.
@whatchu_talkin_john_willis
Жыл бұрын
Hardness test a wpc treated lifter
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Send one in, I'm happy to test it.
@imtheonevanhalen1557
Жыл бұрын
Does anyone really think a cam grinder would order and not know the hardness meets spec? If this was a huge problem, all of the big three would have engineers up their ass!! NEVER allow a mild lift cam to idle for the first 30 minutes, and use the APPROVED break in lube on the lobes AND the lifters.
@TheJackmac55
Жыл бұрын
dude awesome video...strait talk..no blah..blah..
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!!!
@shaggydogg630
Жыл бұрын
So basically when one buys a new cam and lifter we should send it to a reputable guy like yourself to be inspected for quality before the fact. Then bring us any issues with the manufacturer?
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
As convoluted as that is... it's the only way the end user can KNOW unfortunately
@msh6865
Жыл бұрын
@@powellmachineinc3179 what do you charge to check a cam and lifters for accurate geometry, etc?
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
@@msh6865 $100.00
@advancednutritioninc908
9 ай бұрын
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos! I had never heard lifter crown and cam lobe taper described so clearly and in just a realitively few words! Great Video!l Thanks !
@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308
Жыл бұрын
This man is pure and really knows his stuff. One thing I have seen over my career is worn or scored lifter bores not looked after during rebuilds that stop the lifter from rotating. I suspect that is responsible for atleast some failures as well.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed
@Hitman-ds1ei
Жыл бұрын
Yep the occurrence of ovality in lifter bores of older high milage engines is more prevalent than most realise and this is not so much just the impact on lifter rotation but also misalignment at contact face and lifter chatter, in some cases enough ovality to cause low oil pressure issues too, lifter bore bushing may be cost prohibited but the difference in lobe contact patterns is huge, I have many times reamed to ford or chrysler sizes in chevy blocks but the hazard of clipping the lobe next door increases substantially without accurate cam endfloat control
@umakemerandy3669
7 ай бұрын
Ah yeah thats a good point
@ercost60
Жыл бұрын
EXCELLENT VIDEO! First time viewer, thank you for making this! Plenty of theories on flat tappet failures but you show the science and testing to rule out cam hardness. Perfect, I'm a fan, subscribing now!
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!!!
@johnstonis7977
Жыл бұрын
This literally the best flat tappet cam video out.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!!
@OldBeaterGarage
Жыл бұрын
This information needs to be socialized better! One thing that people should be made aware of is the only new Hydraulic Flat Tappet lifters made in the USA come from 1 place and that's Topline Hylift in the same city as CWC. Speedpro/Federal Mogul are coming out of Mexico. Comp is in the middle or just finished moving all their equipment from TN to MS, I'd like someone to do a little more investigation into why there's cams leaving their "State of the Art Facility" with a lack of taper! I get the offshore lifters not having a crown, but COMP should have a higher standard.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Comp doesn't make lifters, and I doubt there qc'ing the ones there bringing in.
@jad2484
Жыл бұрын
@@powellmachineinc3179 Who makes COMPs Endure-X lifters?
@rollydoucet8909
Жыл бұрын
@@powellmachineinc3179 Where ever Comp is getting their lifters, their failures have cost our shop a lot of money. One project was returned with badly worn camshaft & lifters. (new Pontiac 400, hydraulic flat tappet application) We suggested upgrading to a hydraulic roller set up. Engine ran great, but was returned again with less than 1000 miles with a broken roller wheel on one lifter. Comp Cams is not offering any solutions or answers.
@MrZdvy
Жыл бұрын
@@rollydoucet8909 That’s insane, Comp Cams should be sued.
@rollydoucet8909
Жыл бұрын
@@MrZdvy Comp Cams are going through the same tough times as many other businesses, I get that, but their manner of dealing with the concerns of clients who have dealt with them for years could be a lot better. More than 50% of our cam and valve train related purchases are from Comp, and to hear them say they don't know how to help you, is quite depressing.
@skylinefever
Жыл бұрын
That Buick cam suggests to me that some people just grind cams without thinking about it. Perhaps a giant mass producer has employees who lack passion for building car parts? This would certainly explain why people would follow break in procedure, use high zinc oil, and still end up with flattened out lobes.
@big3fan916
Жыл бұрын
A friend of mine builds my engines and I follow his start up instructions to the letter ! First he sets the timing on the engine stand , he says never make a full rotation putting in the torque converter bolts ( you don't want to wipe the cam lube off the cam rotating it before the start up ) I use a known good carb and ignition system to make sure it fires on the first hit of the starter . When it starts NEVER let it idle - keep oscillating the RPM's up and down - I immediately drive mine still not letting it idle , I bet I don't let mine idle for at least a month if not more and he says never just rev them up and hold it at a single rpm like " they " say to do . He installs pretty sizable solid lifter flat tappet cams ( Racer Brown Cams in my MOPARS because the grind cams for MOPARS not just Chevy profiles on blanks ) I haven't killed one " YET " lol knock on wood !
@whiteboyfromernul
Жыл бұрын
Then how do you set valve lash if you dont turn it?
@big3fan916
Жыл бұрын
@@whiteboyfromernul He sets the valve lash with the intake off and keeps painting the cam with the cam lube , plus you go back and forth across the engine instead of one side at a time
@valonkanava
Жыл бұрын
Excellent information! Some 20 years ago I rebuilt a 1946 Buick 320 straight eight, and a replaced a couple of lifters that looked scored, with aftermaket lifters form Bob's Automobilia which I think is a reliable source. The cam was reground and nitrided for hardness. Some years later, I discovered that those two aftermarket lifters were chewn off by the cam, while all originals were pristine. I assume EGGE is the only manufacturer of Buick STR-8 lifters. I have to assume they are soft.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Very possible!
@edsmachine93
Жыл бұрын
I am watching this. I thought that I had subscribed yesterday. Said I wasn't, so I just subscribed again. Take care, Ed.
@every-istand-ophobe6320
Жыл бұрын
Where is the chick from the thumbnail?
@williamrivers5838
Жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation here.........The problem is the EPA...In 2008 they took all the phosphorous and zinc out of all automotive on-road oil to "save the planet"...Roller cams were in almost everything by then (New vehicles) and they told the rest of us to flip off....I had an automotive machine shop at the time and lost several engines in two weeks and ZERO losses for the 350 or so engines we had built before that time....I am retired now and still get involved with builds for my buddies and we only use roller cams now....We still use zinc and high dollar break- in oil....Even with a perfect break-in being done, A high-lift, High spring rate flat tappet engine is still vulnerable to ONE bad oil change....A retro-roller kit is way less expensive than a re-rebuild because of metal chunks everywhere and the crank may need replaced if it won't turn again.. Then its back to the balance shop for new crank to be match balanced to the other parts...Good luck and good OIL to you all...
@eugeneoreilly9356
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree,the EPA has destroyed many things with their stupid regulations.
@MrTheHillfolk
9 ай бұрын
Oils well that ends well 😄✌️
@Shop209
Жыл бұрын
I’d like to see a lifter refacing video. I have some comp lifters that had light rust on face. Maybe I can clean them up.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
We will do that soon
@annmarierudolph2291
Жыл бұрын
Yes you can clean them up with a peice of glass some 400 grit sand paper and some marvel mystery oil run the lifter across the sand paper poor a adequate amount of oil on it in figure 8 to get a cross hatch on the lifter and your good.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
@Annmarie Rudolph that is not how you do it,...
@frigglebiscuit7484
Жыл бұрын
@@annmarierudolph2291 NO.
@rondye9398
Жыл бұрын
UTC recently did a video about this issue with a possible cause of failure not the hardness but the shape of the lifter shape not accurately machined so the lifter would not rotate.
@tachedtc
Жыл бұрын
Is there a link for this? I've not been able to find it.
@shaggydogg630
Жыл бұрын
@@tachedtc search you tube “ getting to the bottom of the great cam and lifter fiasco” uncle Tony’s garage. I would give you the link gladly if I knew how.
@davidjackson4112
9 ай бұрын
Daniel, CWC is in Muskegon, Michigan. CWC stands for Campbell, Watts and Cannon. I had some kid folks that worked there in the mid sixty. Enjoy your channel. Your integrity is greatly honored.
@ericstalker7973
Ай бұрын
Hello Daniel, I just watched your cam hardness comparison video from around a year ago. Very cool piece of machinery you have there. As always I learn something from every one of your videos. I don't really understand how that machine works. I guess my question is does it leave a mark on the cam where you check it. But on another note I read through some of the comments and one guy claimed he had been a go fast gear head for 40 years and said there was nothing more he thought he could know until he watched your video. I don't know but I thought that was an arrogant statement and having said that people with that attitude are normally not the best customers to work for.love your videos and thank you so much for sharing your endless book of wisdom.
@powellmachineinc3179
Ай бұрын
Tyvm
@charlesdorman1243
Ай бұрын
Real hard to buy with confidence. Need to check everything which requires specialized tools.
@powellmachineinc3179
Ай бұрын
Absolutely
@tomupchurch4911
8 ай бұрын
Ya gotta have ZINC👽 Keep doing what you do man. Good videos. You know what you're talking about.
@powellmachineinc3179
8 ай бұрын
Always!
@DANTHETUBEMAN
Жыл бұрын
If i flattene out a new cam and lifters on a build, id CHANGE MY BUILD PROCEDURE IMMEDIATELY! 😮 Brake in springs, Brake in oil, Follow Manufacturer Brakein procedures To the letter, Have a priest give blessings and exorcisms, 👹 whatever it takes, i would chane the way i do Everything to get it right and keep it right.
@powellmachineinc3179
Жыл бұрын
Lol, absolutely
@edpetrocelli2633
Жыл бұрын
I guess I better knock on wood I been building engines since 1970 and haven`t lost a lobe for 20 years. I turn just the cam and lifters with light oil by hand or a slow drill and watch to see the lifters turn, they`ll turn between 1/4 and 1/2 a turn every lift cycle, it they don`t I hone the bore till they do. On my competition flat tappet stuff I break them in with low pressure springs then change them, the circle track motors run 3 yrs usually. I try to stay with Bullet, comp and Johnson Hy-Lift. CWC is Cambell foundry isnt it?
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