👉 All Our Favorite Laptops: www.justjosh.tech/best-tech/
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
Three words: Official Linux support. That's what I need! It's not great that most other Linux-first brands aren't competitive, but Framework delivers! (Although I don't see a point of the Intel model over the AMD Ryzen models!)
@DywanTv
Ай бұрын
What is the difference between official Linux support and not? I mean is it any harder to install and use Linux on DELL, Asus, Acer, Lenovo etc?
@godoflight558
Ай бұрын
@@DywanTvit means that the company put effort into making the product work on Linux, ie choosing parts like audio, wifi or fingerprint with open source drivers.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@godoflight558 Heck, even most Tuxedo laptops (which were built in collaboration with some ODMs, or original design manufacturers) don't have working fingerprint sensors under Linux even if they include them. Framework not only has them, but they work under Linux.
@chic_luke
Ай бұрын
This. Looking at the "Linux" section of several laptops that were tested on this channel will make it very clear why Linux users are flocking to Framework in droves
@shaneterrell
Ай бұрын
I see this as a broader Linux issue rather than a Framework-specific problem. Generally, Linux users are often forced to choose between expensive, niche, or outdated hardware to get optimal support. If Linux aims for mainstream adoption, a more pragmatic approach is necessary. Embracing a hybrid model with a combination of open-source software and proprietary drivers/kernel extensions is essential. As a consumer, I'm unwilling to sacrifice hardware performance or compatibility for the sake of strict FOSS adherence.
@sindrisuncatcher653
Ай бұрын
I feel like you're missing the point if you spend half the review talking about how things like the case and the keyboard don't seem to have changed much since "previous generations" of the framework, because... it's literally the same case and keyboard. That's kind of the whole idea. It's also funny how when qualcomm puts out a processor that has inferior performance but lower power draw, everybody says it's exciting and innovative, but when intel puts out a processor with the same performance as last year but drawing half the wattage, it's a disappointment. (I mean, you totally should be disappointed in Intel's behavior these last couple of years, but this isn't the reason why.) That said, it's pretty late in the life cycle of the processor to be putting out this mainboard, and there aren't a lot of areas where it would be better than the AMD version that's been out for months.
@nitrobear
27 күн бұрын
The whole idea of the laptop is that the parts are replaceable with better ones, not that the keyboard and trackpad should remain the exact same across multiple generations. The keyboard itself is completely fine and it's something they don't need to replace but the trackpad should have gotten a revision to make it haptic at least.
@raute2687
25 күн бұрын
@@nitrobear upgrading every generation is exactly the kind of consumerism not covered by the ideals behind framework.
@EthanIzeta
23 күн бұрын
@@nitrobear you can't expect the same attention to details from a small company that is still in the development stage and has way more important to worry about, give it some time and I'm sure they'll come out with a solution just gotta be patient.
@PCUser1024
23 күн бұрын
@raute2687 Actually, upgrading is part of the formula. That's why the Cooler Master case was created. Framework is about keeping electrics out of landfills, having longer usable life. You are meant to upgrade as you see fit.
@sophie_a
15 күн бұрын
@@nitrobearwhile I agree that a trackpad upgrade would be nice, constantly refreshing things isnt really the point here. this video spent a weird amount of time emphasizing that the standardization hasnt become unstandard lol
@ZiggyMercury
Ай бұрын
Framwork's idea is great, but it's ridiculous to start selling a Core Ultra Series 1 laptop about a month before the Core Ultra Series 2 laptop comes out, unless you sell it for a cheap, which is definitely not the case here.
@mtadc1545
Ай бұрын
Yeah it seems like they’re just getting cheap deals from intels old left overs.
@harigovindsrfortechnology
Ай бұрын
There might not be a core 200 or zen 5 upgrade. Both of those generations do not support sodimm as of now. So framework might not have them. Unless maybe camm happens
@Dominik-iv6ek
Ай бұрын
also, isnt 370 hx a perfect chip for these? looking at the px13... they should go amd
@xxthr0wnshadexx
Ай бұрын
@@harigovindsrfortechnology im pretty sure zen 5 mobile does support ddr5. it states so on AMD's website
@red6785real
Ай бұрын
Zen 5 does support SODIMM.
@Winnetou17
Ай бұрын
One thing that I feel is not expanded enough (and I'd also say it's the #1 feature, before the upgradeability) is the repairability. With this laptop, barring some really unfortunate accidents, you're basically guaranteed you can use the laptop for 10 years! Including if Framework goes bankrupt tomorrow. I don't think any other laptop, except the old Thinkpads, could give you this guarantee, even if some models could easily last 10 years. Also, in those 10 years (which don't have to be used by you, you can sell it after 5 years, or parts of it) you do have the easiest and cheapest repairs. Another thing, on the upgradeability - with more and more models for each component, you can really build the laptop you want, in quite some detail. If you find a keyboard you like, you can keep using it, even if you change the whole rest of the laptop internals (basically as if you change the laptop entirely). Same with the screen, if you happen to find one that you really like, you can keep using it. For example, you might want to have a highend CPU, but you actually prefer the lower quality display, with the lower pixel count, because you actually don't need a higher resolution or framerate, but you do need the extra battery life. On basically all other laptops, if you have a premium CPU, you'd also have a premium screen - which makes sense, but in the rare ocasions when that would be detrimental, you have no options. Framework gives you options. Many more options. There's also the "ok, last motherboard + CPU + RAM had their course, now's time for an upgrade" - besides selling them, you can also very easily convert them into a mini pc for a Home server. Lastly, some people might simply want Framework for the clearly better environmental impact. Like I said in the begging - unlike the most laptop space, these laptops are made to have a very long life, which means less thrown junk per unit of time. Frankly, unless local AI actually becomes REALLY useful for most people, then just like an M1 Air is still very good today, so would a Framework or any laptop with a modern Intel or AMD CPU should be very good for normal and casual use for a long time. More than 10 years, I'd say. So laptops that have a lifespan of 10+ years should become the norm.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
3:23 As somebody who uses the right control key frequently, thank you Framework for not following trends and also including Linux options for their laptop keyboards (keyboards with a Super key instead of a Windows key)!
@mllarson
20 күн бұрын
And also keeping the left control all the way to the left and not putting the function key there. That gets me quite often in other laptops 😖
@C0mmanderKewl
Ай бұрын
Looking into it, and I was so disapointed with how expensive it is to upgrade the laptop. A new motherboard/cpu + new screen comes out to over 1000$ dollars. Might as well buy a new laptop every couple of years then just upgrading this one. Edit: just wanted to say that I do love framework's overall mission and goals. I am rooting for them. I just hope one day it is feasible to buy for me (a poor person)!
@J0S3C4CU12
Ай бұрын
This is something I have seen very few people mention, this is specially true for the 16 inch model, it is expensive.
@one_step_sideways
Ай бұрын
Used ThinkPad. 5x cheaper than Framework 13 and really upgradeable. In particular, if you want a good robust and repairable laptop, you can look for the ThinkPad T480. If you do not need the rigidity of ThinkPad and only need performance and upgradability, then look for Dell Latitude 5591 and Precision 3530. I switched to the Precision 3530 from the T480 because of the equally good upgradability, and because it was being sold off at my company for cheap. I would wager that it's even more repairable for the average consumer than the T480, which may sound blasphemous, but it's simply due to there being both a DC jack and a Thunderbolt port for 65W charging, and the DC jack is easily replaceable as it is connected with a cable instead of being soldered, like on the T480 with its USB-C ports, a single point of failure. The Dell Precision 3530 is basically a cheaper and lower-end ThinkPad P52 alternative, with a 6-core processor and serviceable Quadro P600 graphics. The dGPU is not made for gaming, as it only uses 20W, but it has NVENC and 4GB of VRAM, which is great for a cheap workstation such as this. It smokes the ThinkPad T580. One gripe is with Dell enforcing planned obsolescence by forcing a BIOS update which disables undervolting and thus takes away 15% performance, makes the CPU hot and the laptop loud. If you find a Precision 3530 or a Latitude 5591 with a BIOS version 1.10 or lower, it's worth paying $30-40 extra for, and you must disable UEFI Capsule Firmware updates, as well as automatic Windows driver updates. Never update it to version 1.11 or higher. Same goes for other undervoltable Dell laptops.
@viv12348
Ай бұрын
well, motherboard + cpu and screen are literally the most expensive parts of a laptop, like 80% of the price, of course it's a 1000$
@robhunt8378
Ай бұрын
@@viv12348Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose though? Might as well buy a new laptop and get a new chassis. So the only thing they got going for them is upgradability but the whole "more expensive upfront but pays off in the long run" falls flat on its face.
@calvinwalker4654
Ай бұрын
Upgradable is just a marketing gimmick. Not even desktop computers are upgradable for practical purposes. After several years you want to upgrade your desktop? Well the new CPU won’t fit your motherboard. Not so bad I’ll just get a motherboard. Oh no I need new RAM too? Well I might want to upgrade my GPU if I’m gaming. At this point the only components left are the case, PSU and SSD. No not the PSU because it needs upgrading for the new GPU.
@Bluestreak589
Ай бұрын
The #1 selling point for me with Framework is Linux support. #2 selling point is repairability and upgradeability - I'm not a fan of System76's Sager/Clevo rebadged hardware nor do I want to be messing around trying to hack Linux to run decently on . I'll be buying when Ryzen 300 updates are available - Probably FW16 if the spacer issues are addressed, otherwise FW13. Not interested in Intel until they have something meaningful to offer and mobile CPUs are definitively (and independent of Intel's penchant for lying) found to not be defective as are their desktop processors.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
The spacer issues have been addressed on shipping units; I can verify because I have one. And I agree, System76 actually has worse build quality than Framework and is similarly priced with worse screens.
@Bluestreak589
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 The keyboard deck flex of initial reviews did get addressed. The spacer gaps are still hit and miss - Take a look at the Framework subreddit for recent photos. Some people have better luck than others. I suspect the 'real' fix is going to be along the lines of eliminating spacers for those of us who only want a centered keyboard/trackpad.
@true7563
Ай бұрын
are the ryzen chips going to work with framework? i thought they need soldered ram
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@@true7563 That's why I think we won't see any new CPUs from Framework this year until CAMM2 becomes more popular.
@Bluestreak589
Ай бұрын
@@true7563 Read the AMD specs pages. They support DDR5 or LPDDR5X. LPCAMM2 is LPDDR5X soldered to a carrier module rather than directly onto the motherboard. Framework will have no issue adopting Ryzen 300 while also allowing for user upgradeable memory. Intel's Lunar Lake on the other hand is an SoC - Almost the entire system (including RAM) is bundled onto the processor package (so zero upgradeability). Intel Arrow Lake, the actual upgrade from Framework's corrent H series Core Ultra models, will start shipping from Intel at end of 2024/early 2025 and go back to offering non-SoC SKUs. Everybody paranoid that all RAM will be soldered in the future should take a deep breath and relax... That may be the future of some laptop models but soldered memory will not become an actual requirement anytime soon.
@adequatequality
Ай бұрын
Framework's product methodology is really refreshing to see in the industry but they need to work on their CPU availability timelines and the pricing. Paying the amount they charge even for pre-built devices currently is pretty absurd when it rivals similarly spec'd flagships by slapping on accidental damage protection or an extended warranty
@anshulshah1703
Ай бұрын
Given that the 7840u model already exists, this model seems pretty unnecessary you're basically getting slightly less performance while having slightly more battery life (which was surprising to see tbh).
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
To be fair, Intel Lunar Lake seems to not have any upgradeable RAM options and is limited to 32 GB at the top end, so Framework probably will not offer that generation. AMD Hawk Point was barely any different, so Framework already confirmed that they won't offer it. And AMD Ryzen "A.I." 300 CPUs also don't seem to have upgradable RAM at the moment, so I would be shocked if we see any new Framework CPU options this year, given there literally isn't any option for them. Well, at least until CAMM2 is released.
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213Yes, it is interesting how Framework will navigate these roadblocks. I assume they have a plan but to date I have not seen any leaks. I am not an upgradeable devotee but understand there are people that live by that mantra. I am unwilling to pay a premium (tax) for that privilege, though I am willing to pay the Apple Tax for the quality and top-notch features. So each to their own…
@emanuelevegliante7141
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213what do you mean when you say that they don’t have upgradable ram? The slots can only be soldered onto the board?
@anshulshah1703
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 yeah I think they just want to have the latest intel generation
@nickydrake3252
Ай бұрын
I like this channel, but the battery life reports are frustrating - surely every viewer wants to know *how many hours a laptop runs for* on a given test, not what the percentage remaining is after a particular amount of time. Why make the viewer pause the video and get their calculator out, rather than just tell them? It's very strange.
@prosetheus8951
Ай бұрын
I want companies like framework to succeed. I hope they grow a lot and they manage to bring down prices. Also hope for a Copprlink port, the new upcoming standard for egpus.
@Sithhy
28 күн бұрын
I thought OcuLink is the new standard?
@prosetheus8951
27 күн бұрын
@@Sithhy Oculink has been around for a while. Copprlink is what was in the works for a while and got finalized on May 1, 2024. It is for PCI 5.0 and beyond.
@ShawshankRiveira
Ай бұрын
I feel like you guys are missing the point on framework. I want to have just one laptop for ideally a decade or two. I don’t want to get a new laptop every 3-5 years and create more waste. Also I feel the price is high due to their manufacturing being much smaller in scale in comparison to say, Asus or others. But it’s also understandable the price is high for most consumers so other brands would be a better choice.
@davitdavid7165
Ай бұрын
This is a laptop i wish was competitive. I dont like the idea of buying inferior products for years on end for the sake of principles, especially when you are strapped for cash
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@@davitdavid7165 For Linux first options, it actually is.
@PCUser1024
23 күн бұрын
It if was gauged as a laptop, it really does suck in many areas. Price, expensive. Performance, behind. Battery life, not there. Touch screen, nope. Speakers...ho-hum. OLED, nope.
@sophie_a
15 күн бұрын
I feel like people are getting too caught up in consumerism and having the fanciest nicest tech every year. I got a first gen framework for college, and it still does just as good a job with that as it did originally (mid tier a little over 1k when i bought it). Yeah, it'll never have the absolute most power but are you trying to play AAA titles on your 13 inch? idk. even my 11th gen intel chip can do light gaming which is all I do anyway
@davitdavid7165
7 күн бұрын
@@sophie_a that is mostly true. I think for Ultrabooks what truly matters is the ergonomics of the keyboard, trackpad and screen and battery life. Framework is behind on those. The 16 is really hard to justify. The whole point of dragging a gaming laptop around is performance and the framework is not even particularly light, small or feature a crazy screen or keyboard to justify the cost. I think they should have went full open source with egpus from the start
@sophie_a
3 күн бұрын
@@davitdavid7165 perhaps, i think the trackpad is the worst part of the laptop- i do have a pretty early framework though so not sure if that's been improved. But the upgraded screen seems pretty reasonable, i actually prefer the keyboard over any other i've tried (though that is quite subjective) and the battery life is definitely only okay. With fiddling and tweaking I can get a solid 8 hours out of school type tasks, which is plenty but i do carry around a small 30w charger for it. Personally I don't want a gaming laptop so the 16 isn't trying to appeal to my demographic- but yeah if you're getting a big laptop you're sacrificing a bit more for the 16. The question is are you willing to give up a little bit of immediate value in return for being able to cheaply repair and upgrade it? and my personal bias is that i've switched over to linux on my fw and that was very easy vs what it can be on some other laptops.
@NilEoe
Ай бұрын
I wish there were data comparing models beyond the review units. I can't find comparaison between the 7640U and 7840U anywere, and same goes for the new Intel Core Ultra. The only data is about the most powerful models, which is kind of a shame as it's doesn't show the full picture and also kind of changes the value argument as those are the most expensive.
@DavorZyx
Ай бұрын
I truly appreciate the work you're doing for laptop buyers, and I wish you would create similar in-depth, unbiased videos for other tech products, like smartphones. I understand that testing and reviewing laptops requires a significant amount of time and effort, but it would be fantastic to see you expand your coverage to more products while maintaining the high standards and quality in your testing and video production.
@giuseppebadala5063
Ай бұрын
the new gen for framework will be a challenge for sure, zen 5 does not support soddim memory and it is rumored that it will be the same for the new lunar lake chips from intel. we'll just have to see how framework adapts to this market trend
@bennettderrico5845
Ай бұрын
Zen 5 supports sodimm
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
@@bennettderrico5845 Not on the ultrabook AMD5 chips. They are soldered on the motherboard to save costs and get faster speeds with lower latency, mainly for AI use. Framework sells 95% ultrabooks.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@bennettderrico5845 Given it's just Asus who are using Zen 5 at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if AMD releases options with both CAMM2 and SO-DIMM.
@prem3548
Ай бұрын
Yea, I too wish they were cheaper, but they are about as cheap as they can be given the industry. Also, I see you didn't talk about the new webcam. Did it not ship with the new webcam?
@sydguitar99
Ай бұрын
For the price, i dont see the value. Especially now with Zen 5 and Arm chips being available
@bhavyagogri
Ай бұрын
Can you guys do a review of Thinkpads please?
@duac4508
Ай бұрын
repairability? best feature by far IMO. Did it even get mentioned? if so not much. Im sick and tired of having to get parts from some random vendor on the internet and wondering if they are lying about the battery a genuine part. My last battery was almost certanly not. They are also really easy to replace, my dad needed a keyboard, his laptop had plastic studs melted in place ala hot rivets, I had to break them out then glue the new keyboard back in. I value the confidence of being backed by a manufacturer that keeps parts around and allows the customers to buy them directly. Thats why I also try to stick with Bosch and Dewalt power tools.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
5:44 Josh, I think you need to realize that Framework sells older models with slightly older yet still capable for their age CPUs at a discount. That pretty much removes that point of contention. And not to mention, the new screen and other upgrades can be added on post purchase, unlike the other competitors, where a removable SSD is basically all that you get. And those don't get great Linux support. Framework will probably keep its value in the second-hand market much better than other laptops because one broken critical part won't make the entire thing e-waste.
@J0S3C4CU12
Ай бұрын
Why are you posting so many comments? I think you can put this all together one comment no problem. To me you are just spamming at this point, I have seen like four of your comments already and one isn't even constructive criticism, is just you saying you didn't like the video.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@@J0S3C4CU12 I'm actually not spamming. I made longer comments before and KZitem hides them.
@J0S3C4CU12
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 Sorry if I am being too blunt, but making 7 comments in one single video, one of them is just saying you don't like the video and one comment accusing him of shilling out for big tech, that sounds like spamming. And I don't really have a reason to believe KZitem would hide your comment for being too big.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@@J0S3C4CU12 They have done it, not sure if KZitem was doing it intentionally or not. I know Josh wouldn't.
@openbabel
Ай бұрын
Early indications are that small companies and developers are the target market for frameworks to developed its products. The good news is that you can upgrade at the pace of future development. We agree that this market segment do require productive 16 inch laptops. Developing a smaller 13 inch was a distraction with its own brand and cost disadvantage, which is adequately served by the competition in other markets. Maybe you should compare it with star labs range of laptops.
@3nd0f3arth
Ай бұрын
I know this is about the Core Ultra, but as you tested the screen it would have been nice if you would have tested the new camera module as well.
@josephmazor725
Ай бұрын
My next laptop will be a framework purely for the Linux support and upgradability (unless something seriously changes)
@EnterpriseKnight
23 күн бұрын
I'm waiting for mine for that exact reason. One to two weeks from shipping.
@giomjava
Ай бұрын
As a Framework fanboy, I think these criticisms are not only VALID, but also absolutely CRUCIAL to be take into account if FW wants to stay viable in the near future. Must must must Maybe create an updated clamshell/chassis, that will have better cooling, allowing newer chips to use and dissipate more power? Continuing this trend of leaving performance on the table because u cant dissipate power, is dangerous.
@jeffreydurham2566
16 күн бұрын
I'm sure they are working on different things, but development takes time. Just think about how much development time there was before being able to release the first Framework 13.
@bhanusharma233
Ай бұрын
Great review Josh!
@piyh3962
Ай бұрын
I've really come to appreciate the new presenter too
@doomtomb3
Ай бұрын
The amount of noise framework made about SD card slot support lol sheesh
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@doomtomb3 Almost every competitor doesn't have a full-sized SD card slot and most don't even have microSD card slots.
@Tobias-fl3nb
Ай бұрын
This is like a picky child eating their favorite food that was cooked by the wrong person.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
2:50 Personally, I'll take boring over what Dell did to the 2024 XPS laptops! Or those flashy gaming laptops!
@takakazushi6703
Ай бұрын
Josh, you do great and thorough reviews and I’m sure your mother is very proud. Want to make her even more proud? How about popping a live Linux stick into every computer you review and give us the Lenox friendly results . There are so many attractive Asus units out there and I really want a sexy unit that will run Linux and be a bit more cutting edge than Framework. How about it?
@tedzards509
Ай бұрын
what a weird comment.
@ludekstipal6120
Ай бұрын
Sure, give your money to Intel, as they are known for treating their customers well...
@abdullaplays5402
Ай бұрын
finally framework can be more efficient with core ultra much better than the older intel models great job framework!
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
Sadly, at that price the laptop market has moved on to more powerful efficient chips, the M4, AMD5 and upcoming Intel (September release). So, the Core Ultra Series 1 short life was because it was a filler cycle because of the delay in the better chipset. I would never recommend anyone buying a Core Ultra Series 1.
@abdullaplays5402
Ай бұрын
yeah bad timing tbh
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@andyH_England Sure, it's bad timing, but I don't think Framework will release anything more this year, unless AMD can get their act together and release a more powerful new Radeon 7000S GPU or if CAMM2 becomes mainstream.
@gageracer
Ай бұрын
One big flaw of Framework is the upgrades coming much later than they should which almost destroys the idea of having it in the first place. It should be easier to just get ryzen ai motherboard for one device than to create dozens of new laptops from scratch 😅
@McMaxW
Ай бұрын
I’ll wait for the new Ryzen AI chips.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
You'll probably be waiting until at least 2025 or when CAMM2 is out.
@McMaxW
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 they are already out, Asus has like 10 laptops with Ryzen AI.
@duac4508
Ай бұрын
@@McMaxW right now the RAM has to be soldered on, that's probably not a good fit for the framework customer base. Has it been announced camm2 is coming? I didn't see anything about that. Probably a fair guess even if it wasn't announced.
@kynrai
14 күн бұрын
I feel framework buyers understand this will not be as tuned as a lump of glue with parts embedded in it, wont be as optimal but id give up 5-10% performance for the upgradability, and OFFICIAL LINUX SUPPORT. Personally wont notice the lower performance for what I do, but I will notice the money if i have to replace a wifi card or just want to buy some ram to make it last longer.
@shashankyadav5703
Ай бұрын
1:33 how is 4060 performing worse than 4050 in ProArt PX 13.
@JustJoshTech
Ай бұрын
Massive difference in power draw. Low wattage 4060 vs high wattage 4050
@4n0nmann5
Ай бұрын
@@JustJoshTech RIP to all the dudes who got scammed with the low wattage 4060 and thanks for Justjosh Team who show us such things :D
@mbvglider
Ай бұрын
@@4n0nmann5 It honestly depends. There will be some cases where a low wattage 4060 will perform better than a high wattage 4050 because it has 8 GB VRAM instead of 6 GB. You can't just look at one chart.
@katerinachuranova8435
24 күн бұрын
The price argument goes away quite fast with first upgrade. Especially when the old motherboard can be easily repurposed.
@smartxmusculado
Ай бұрын
In battery life section where you showcased Cinebench results, the AMD model drops its performance more (about 30%) than the Intel Core (25%) Ultra one, 568 (AMD) vs 525 (Intel) on battery power. But when both Framework laptops are plugged in, the AMD model performed much better and the gap widened. About 14-16% faster plugged in and on battery about 8-10% faster. These are only estimates. From my observations, the performance gap narrowed while the Cinebench test was done on battery. My question to you is: What power mode was set to in this test? If it's set to Best Power Efficiency or Balanced mode, the performance drop is more noticeable. It's understandable to limit the CPU's performance in favour of longer battery life (20-40% loss - done my research and AMD processors can drop their performance as much as 40%, depending on power management settings). But the insightful review about Framework laptops being fully upgradeable laptops and their competitiveness with other laptops from other brands. Some work still needs to be done to truly keep up with the rest of the pack in other areas, where there is room for improvement. Some future refinements will make Framework laptops even better. Only time can tell.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
5:56 That's ONLY because it is on sale. At full price with 32 GB of RAM (which is soldered), you literally are spending even more money than a Framework Laptop 13 but will get less longevity out of it. I think you need to think abour long-term with laptops, especially given how expensive ALL laptops are nowadays.
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
That is where a lifestyle choice like this is misleading. It costs £1700 for a chip that will be outdated in a few weeks and looking on Amazon, I can get Core Ultra 7 for £600-700 with OLED and 15-inches 16GB/512GB. So why would I spend £1000 more. I can save that accruing interest and when I need to replace that £600 laptop I can get another in three years for £600. And still have money to do the same in six years time. Remember, to upgrade the motherboard on the Framework can cost £800-1000 and as these are ultrabooks when are you going to need to upgrade RAM or storage? Sorry this is for people that believe that upgrading is the best-all-end-all, whereas I prefer a great laptop (OLED, haptic trackpad and full speakers). I would hate myself for paying £1700 for such weak specs. But as I said this is for a tiny niche hardcore upgrade-driven lifestyle choice user who is willing to pay more for less.
@BSingh-on4qr
29 күн бұрын
Competitive because it's still good while allowing you to upgrade every single component with time
@justaguy6216
Ай бұрын
I really don't mind paying the price premium for this laptop. Considering I can just slap in a new mainboard when this one gets outdated and it will cost me half as much as buying a new laptop. The only reason I haven't bought one yet is because my old laptop still works. Once that goes kaput, then I'd buy the AMD version in a heartbeat. Also, we have to remember it's a tiny company compared to the other giant manufacturers.
@swarnavasamanta2628
Ай бұрын
Also don't forget that the framework laptops upgradability points probably ends with the intel core ultra 100 series. Intel's next chips from lunar lake and amds zen 5 strix point chips all have soldered memory, so there is no point to upgrade anymore.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
Actually, CAMM2 could be a thing; I have a feeling Framework could just skip 2024 CPUs and wait for CAMM2 to get both upgradable RAM and LPDDR5X speeds. I mean, that would make sense, given Intel has already confirmed Panther Lake would support more types of RAM than Lunar Lake.
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213The problem as far as I have read with CAMM2 is that if you upgrade from 16GB to 32GB you have to buy a 32GB and replace the 16GB. You cannot add another 16GB. So as CAMM2 are 3X more expensive at the moment this will only make Framework laptops even worse value.
@swarnavasamanta2628
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 CAMM2 will never get LPDDR5X speeds or DDR6 speeds for that matter. The reason modern RAMs are so fast is because they are physically closer to the chip and soldering them on the chip is the best way to make sure they are as close as possible to reduce latency. CAMM2 gets closer than normal SODIMM modules but can never be the same as soldered memory. It's just the nature of computation and physics.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@@swarnavasamanta2628 There's a point where you don't need memory that much faster though.
@swarnavasamanta2628
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 The Moore's law you have heard of has long been dead. The latest increment in GFLOPS that still keeps Moore's law alive is advancement in other things rather than the transistor in the chip, things like packaging, cache placement, very fast memory, etc. To say memory placement doesn't affect computational output wouldn't be correct at all. A fast CPU needs a fast RAM to feed it data, so yes it is very much relevant.
@mwd6478
Ай бұрын
Some of the plots are flashed up too fast and the charger size at 3:11 in particular is way too fast! Great video as always otherwise.
@wolfwoof2000
Ай бұрын
I have a 2020 dell inspire still rocking. I don’t wanna throw the effort of the company but if people want a cheap Linux supported laptop, other companies do it too at a 400-700€ price range
@FifthDread
Ай бұрын
I love my AMD Framework, and I'm about to slap the new screen in it. I run Arch btw. ;) lol
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
It is great for Linux, and that probably saves it.
@mrcat3493
12 күн бұрын
I don’t see them as competitive on pricing. Yes, the upgrades and what-not are novel, but that’s about it.
@SkysTrains
22 күн бұрын
i just wish they sold the chassis on its own so i could buy a used motherboard from ebay.
@SuperRomanHoliday
Ай бұрын
How will framework ever compete? What is the point of having a crap laptop that can be updated over time to keep it constantly crap?
@Havanu81
Ай бұрын
Most premium laptops are plain better in just about everything. Especially since so many smaller 14 inches come with an OLEDs and GPU's in formfactors that are just better optimized. And I'd rather buy a new one a few years down the road than replace the internals of this one. So yeah... I just don't see the appeal.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
I could argue the same about "most premium laptops" with 16 GB of soldered RAM. 16 GB in 3 - 4 years is soon going to feel like 8 GB does now for most moderate to heavy tasks.
@Havanu81
Ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 That's a given.
@xxzmk
Ай бұрын
1748 USD for such a notebook Damn. I mean wasn't the Zenbook 16S OLED with the new 370HX or 365HX and 24GB LPDDR5 Released for that price?
@mmmp1zza
Ай бұрын
I was interested that you didn't include the AMD Zenbook 14 on any of the comparisons in this video (maybe because it would make the Framework look even worse value that it already did?!) I bought basic spec one recently (8840/16GB/512GB/60hz OLED) for 999 EUR; to spec an equivalent Framework 13 today (albeit with a 7840) is ~1500 EUR. I love the vision that Framework has, and a Framework was my first thought when my last laptop died unexpectedly... but a 50% premium over an excellent alternative isn't reasonable for many buyers, unless you're one of the minority that is deep into needing Linux compatibility or super-committed to upgradeability.
@jtland4842
Ай бұрын
Annoyingly Framework might not be releasing a Zen 5 or Lunar lake design since those chips don't officially support upgradable RAM. I really hope AMD changes this soon as this is the main negative about their new Zen 5 laptop processors.
@blank2541
Ай бұрын
Why no mention on what kind of panel the display upgrade is and how it fairs to other computers?
@JustJoshTech
Ай бұрын
I said at the beginning that this was a different kind of review. I wanted this yo be about my personal experience. Hope that makes sense
@SylvanGlade
Ай бұрын
still waiting for them to come in black
@TheBadFred
Ай бұрын
I wouldn't touch an Intel device with a 10 foot barking pole until the whole microcode/architecture problem is solved completely.
@Watchandlearn91
Ай бұрын
Honestly I wish Framework would just bring a haptic touchpad and I think the experience would be significantly better. Also, I think the customizable ports are a cool idea but in reality, I wish they just provided a solid set of ports that were not soldered to the mainboard and could be repaired from the inside. An HDMI, two USB-C thunderbolt/USB4 ports, an SD card reader, a headphone jack, and a USB A port would be the ideal combo for most people and would make it look less janky. You wouldn't lose any repairability either because the ports themselves would connect to the mainboard inside the laptop and wouldn't be soldered down. I think the main thing for me is a haptic touchpad. After using a MacBook for this long, I just can't go back to a diving board trackpad.
@NathanielBabalola
Ай бұрын
Are you still a full time software engineer?
@frankwong9486
Ай бұрын
Port very innovative,but you only can have 4 and one used for charging I ordered one at end of may and waiting for it send out update email
@robhunt8378
Ай бұрын
At this rate I don't see them leaving the Linux niche. Which it's not necessarily such a bad thing, but surely they were meant to be more ambitious than that.
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
@robhunt8378 Given Microsoft has been pushing users off of Windows like crazy since 2021 (and even as far back as 2012), I can say Framework is truly a great hardware company because of that. Most brands you'll be lucky if there are third-party tools to control the system on Linux, like with Asus or Lenovo. Framework actually tests their systems on Ubuntu and Fedora, the latter of which being the basis for Fedora Silverblue, which is used by the Universal Blue (or uBlue) team to make two more community supported distros: Bluefin & Bazzite.
@EthanIzeta
23 күн бұрын
"at this rate" it's been just 4 years since the company launched
@Christian-cw6lk
16 күн бұрын
It's worth noting that as M$ pushes its Copilot/Recall bullshit -the Linux "Niche" is going to continue to grow. Especially as a lot of distros are becoming more ready for primetime.
@cameronbosch1213
15 күн бұрын
@@Christian-cw6lk Exactly. Eventually, more and more apps will be ported to Linux as the user base continues to grow thanks to Microsoft making Windows unbearable for more and more users.
@TheHottabych23
Ай бұрын
The snapdragon X elite would perfectly fit into it😉But the intel is a crap.
@oviandre
Ай бұрын
@Overspeed_Gaming
Ай бұрын
Never been this early!
@kamm3021
Ай бұрын
SKIP One fan is never enough these days
@jaytrivedi7489
Ай бұрын
I hope the had 3 port on both of one side
@defnotatroll
Ай бұрын
Did the lady host voice the "Ursa" Google Gemini voice? Very similar sounding
@NOM4D20
Ай бұрын
My biggest issue is price. When the Framework 3 came out, I got myself a zenbook flip 13 with the 11th gen i7 (same what framework had), for less price. Since then, I sold it, and got myself a Rog Flow x13, and if I would sell it, and buy the newer x13 (used), I would still spend less, than than the framework 13+the upgrade.
@RedPepperChut
Ай бұрын
When will the review of asus zenbook s 16 come out ?
@dgillies5420
Ай бұрын
The truth is the Thinkpad T4X series of laptops were much more upgradeable than these frameworks. There were literally 12 mother boards available to fit into T40, T41, T42 laptop shells (all identical). The ultrabay could hold a hard disk or a CD or a battery - hot swappable! There were three keyboards and at least five screens and they were easy to change! Framework is devoting too much effort to the usb-c port gimmick, when a 6-port candybar dongle costs $25! They need to offer more than a single GPU which is the 7700S - the least popular GPU right now ... Overall, the company seems to have BAD technical leadership ...
@thesajery
29 күн бұрын
Gimme that amd hx 370 baby
@gdsl77138
Ай бұрын
Im confused between buying yoga pro 9i and legion 7i What do you think is better for me I'm an engineering student I have graphic designing and simulation tasks I also want to play games and watch movies and tv series The system should be able to play next gen titles like gta 6 (future proof gaming) Which one should I get. And with what gpu and cpu
@benjaminkomjathy
Ай бұрын
still not ships to Hungary, so i've went for the latest tuxedo InfinityBook Pro 14
@almoussawer5526
Ай бұрын
Can you test the matebook 14 2024?
@smallqwaro
Ай бұрын
Why can't they partner with these chip makers and grt these chips ahead of time, not a few months before they're launching a new chip
@JimKanaris
Ай бұрын
Can't wait for Framework to improve! Not a fan of the form, which I suspect is due to its reason for being: function/upgradability. "Frankenstein look" is an accurate description. I'm someone who values form as much as function.
@visnuvr
Ай бұрын
Framework got tons of issues and should reduce the price to justify it. The paid promotions by youtubers wont help.
@EthanIzeta
23 күн бұрын
expecting such a small company at such an early stage to compete with massive corporations that have been around for decades is braindead
@GatherFaithMinistries
Ай бұрын
is it only me.. but you two talk almost the same tone... in the video.. haha
@FranceManhique
Ай бұрын
What about laptop WAR 2024.
@JustJoshTech
Ай бұрын
Vs other youtubers?
@FranceManhique
Ай бұрын
@@JustJoshTech yes or vs other channel members.
@rtc3000
Ай бұрын
Somehow this brand does little to appeal to me. I still prefer other brands' design. Hated the logo. Boring look. If I want to game or do design work while plugged in, I'll get a desktop and a good monitor. If I want more ports, I buy a hub. Still cheaper than framework options.
@mvevitsis
Ай бұрын
Those screen corners are...not good looking
@snowhat7298
Ай бұрын
Bit of a hatchet job on Framework in my opinion. The person with the Framework, will be able to change the speakers, wifi, screen, etc.. in the future, if that floats their boat when upgrades come along. Not everybody is looking for the absolute best, fastest, longest running,… A good steady Eddie machine that never goes out of date, in my mind trumps all! The muppet who spends a thousand or so on another laptop, better like it, because they’re stuck with it!!
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
Releasing an undercooked chip so late in its cycle and charging a full price when you can buy an ASUS S15 OLED Core Ultra 7 for £600 is illogical and, frankly, indefensible. If you’re into upgradeability, then, of course, you’ll pay a significant premium. However, the reality is that for 95% of ultrabook consumers, this is overpriced and offers no value, even with the pretence of repairability. Most laptops, if well-maintained, can last ten years. I have several MacBooks in my business that are over eight years old.
@snowhat7298
Ай бұрын
@@andyH_England So do I, and what’s annoyed me is that none of them can be upgraded to Windows 11 when I have to. They are old, (Thinkpad T440p) but in mint condition and could last another 10 years, but now I have to bin them rather than upgrade them. On the price point, who’s to say I don’t buy some older back stock from Framework at a better price, and maybe grab bits and pieces off Amazon. And on your argument about getting something late in the cycle, as soon as you buy it, it’s being beaten by the latest releases. One other point, who buys a new model car when it’s first out!? Most are happy to wait a year or two which hopefully reduces initial issues. There’s no right or wrong just a strong argument for both, and going back to my very first point, I thought this was a little agressive on one side, which doesn’t help anyone.
@LiamMarcon
Ай бұрын
Unless you're getting an amazing deal, I wouldn't bother with Intel based laptops. AMD is destroying them.
@knack6157
Ай бұрын
Today on 15th August, Ports on thumbnail looks like Indian Flag.
@JustJoshTech
Ай бұрын
Good. Alot of our team is in Bangalore and Delhi
@fahrradlos
Ай бұрын
Just another big tech reviewer that completely misses the point of what frameworks mission is...
@JustJoshTech
Ай бұрын
After interviewing Nirav twice and personally buying one myself. I'm pretty certain I know their mission. I think perhaps you just don't like my thoughts on the device. That is perfectly fine, but say it constructively and say what specifically you feel I've missed
@fahrradlos
29 күн бұрын
@@JustJoshTech In my opinion you're not only paying for your hardware but also to support the right to repair movement. There might be products with similar performance for half the price but that's not what most of the customers are looking for. The video just reminded me a bit of the LTT review of the fairphone where they compared it to a Note 9 which is 5 years older and beat the fairphone in many ways... But I guess customers who consider buying these devices don't care about that. They are looking for sustainable supply chains and not worrying about anything breaking. Another youtuber once said: "I'm kinda wishing something would break so I could replace it" which I think sums it up pretty well. I know, you've talked about that, I just thought that it's the main point, not just a fun fact. But you're right, my comment was not that constructive, I apologize for that. And thanks for answering me anyway :) (got my sub now)
@eriottomakurashi
26 күн бұрын
@@fahrradlosto be fair, yeah it is repairable and has great support for original part replacements but the hardware isn’t top of the line compared to other similarly priced devices. Perhaps more emphasis could have been done to that aspect of repairability and longevity since part of the reason one pays the premium is for that unique characteristic but nonetheless in performance you are getting something subpar and i find it valid to remark that to potential buyers
@dgillies5420
Ай бұрын
Their mistake was putting Intel Inside. .. again ...
@isbestlizard
Ай бұрын
Windows users 'fresh install the operating system' to fix bugs more often than I drink cups of coffee. It's so sad they've been gaslit into this by Microsoft :
@cameronbosch1213
Ай бұрын
Hence why I don't use Windows or macOS.
@Lunipilledd
Ай бұрын
You are a psyop funded by Peter Thiel.
@rael_gc
Ай бұрын
No webcam and mic test?
@microcolonel
16 күн бұрын
@@rael_gc the webcam and microphone are decent, especially the in-built microphone. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but when I started using the in built microphone on my Framework, people complimented my clear audio in video calls. They have a new webcam and microphone module coming out soon, and it should be basically the best webcam in any laptop sold today, since it has a larger, more sensitive, higher dynamic range sensor, and a newer ISP, than any competing laptop webcam.
@Skobeloff...
Ай бұрын
Needs more usb
@shroomjak200
Ай бұрын
is it still not possible to invest in framework?
@ChristophHoward
Ай бұрын
Not yet, they are working on that
@lolSnowball
Ай бұрын
If only the screen design was not so dated...i cannot love it as it looks ugly and old
@sztrlb123
20 күн бұрын
2:36 That's why you shouldn't let women review tech 😂 They just want everything to be done by someone else. They don't care about upgradability. She only talks about the main thing about laptop which is upgradability for only 15 seconds🤣
@DementedView
Ай бұрын
Ew Intel, when will Framework get the latest AMD chips put in?
@blueeyednick
27 күн бұрын
not buying a laptop with an intel cpu
@TokyoNeko8
Ай бұрын
Upgradeability is overrated when price is high and not better than others overall experience. I don’t upgrade or need to change ports so often.
@mariussm7797
Ай бұрын
Didn't know Linus invested into overpriced trash. :) Just go for the previews AMD version, is better.
@user-zn1db9fe5w
Ай бұрын
we need leave x86 as fast as possible
@tedzards509
Ай бұрын
x86 isn't as bad as it seems. Apple just had a lot of money to spend on very talented engineers, while Intel and AMD kind of stagnated alongside one another, so they now have to play catch-up.
@user-zn1db9fe5w
Ай бұрын
@@tedzards509 yes it is bad cus x86 loose for free so much power compared to arm
@tedzards509
Ай бұрын
@@user-zn1db9fe5w Could you elaborate on how x86 systematically wastes power? I don't see how that is the case. Also, do you have a background in hardware design? If so, feel free to give me a super convoluted answer, I'm into that shit.
@user-zn1db9fe5w
Ай бұрын
@@tedzards509 ARM processors use something called RISC: Reduced Instruction Set Computing. The variety of instructions a RISC processor can execute is much more restricted than a CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computing) processor, but because of this, it's much more efficient.
@user-zn1db9fe5w
Ай бұрын
@@tedzards509 Intel processors were designed back in the day when processors executed one instruction at a time, and when that one was done, they did the next one. Therefore it didn't matter if some instructions took 1 cycle and others took 10. It also didn't matter if an instruction was 1 byte or 14. I think there are over 1500 different x86 instructions. On the other hand every arm instruction is either 4 or 8 bytes and most can be done in 1 cycle. This makes the decoder logic much simpler. And there are much fewer than them. Also makes the pipeline logic simply. All this means less circuits, and less circuits means less power.
@Overspeed_Gaming
Ай бұрын
4 seconds ago!
@wolly2891
Ай бұрын
The Framework brand is DoA, niche market. Very likely to disappear in a few years
@dera_ng
Ай бұрын
😂😂😂 4:03
@Daniel-m5c8u
Ай бұрын
Really poor review IMO. I love this channel but the framework isn't about upgradability, it's about being repairable and reducing ewaste with the ability to upgrade as a side benefit. I have the AMD 5 version and performance is amazing.
@andyH_England
Ай бұрын
There is no proof for this assertion that Framework will reduce e-waste. They need to go longer. Maybe, after five years, people will get fed up, dump their Framework, and get something cheaper and more modern? You are making great leaps of faith, and although you sound deep into that lifestyle, many others may change their beliefs by then.
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