The difference is 5% between the clip-in shoes, which is a lot. Does this experiment only apply to track sprinting? What about an endurance race?
@dncsmedia
2 жыл бұрын
Love it, I wear flats on my bike all the time. Don't have an F12, but I do think that Price is a major consideration. Those Carbon shoes cost more than some people have afforded to their bike. Meaning they must be on flats. Pedal/Shoe combo with proper fitting. 💰💰💰
@leonschumann2361
2 жыл бұрын
flats are for mtb. not road cycling. the benefits of clipless pedals and shoes are just way to high on a road bike
@adambrickley1119
2 жыл бұрын
If you have a good bike and have security at work flats during the week.
@michaelsingh843
2 жыл бұрын
For us wide feet cyclist, we just happy with what ever fits!
@MattSwain1
2 жыл бұрын
This is so true, I think a lot of brands must model their shoes on someone with only 4 toes on each foot!
@woutersandstra6879
2 жыл бұрын
Brooo lake shoes are the move, theyr a bit pricey but they got a wide variant of every model they make. Most comfortable shoes ive ever owned got both mtb and roadshoes from them
@tz1
2 жыл бұрын
s-works road 7 wide 😏
@michaelsingh843
2 жыл бұрын
@@tz1 those are some serious money. I normally go 1 or 2 sizes up on running shoes, found that nike is good. Gonna try the sw3 or lake
@U.s.e.r.3493
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelsingh843 lakes or bonts
@robertmendelson7724
2 жыл бұрын
For most of us, the stiffer soles result in less fatigue while riding. Much more important than effect on peak power. We produce force through muscle contraction. That force pushes on the pedal, and a 10% more efficient transfer is huge over a 3 or 4 hour ride. (Note that at peak the difference was a lot not 1, 2 or 10 watts but about 200 or 20% more than a trainer.
@NaturallyRapid
2 жыл бұрын
I use flipflops with SPDs glued to the bottoms
@colins.8253
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate you, GCN, being more transparent about your use of sponsored products and why. It makes the episodes more genuine feeling.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Give over ! it was a straight con trick ! GCN are in the business of selling cycling gear .
@peterliljebladh
2 жыл бұрын
The more powerful you are the more important the characteristics of your sole becomes. A track cyclist capable of 2500 watts might feel very restricted in a pair of trainers. On the other hand a relaxed spin around the block with your mates does not require the same level of real estate when it comes to equipment.
@svenweihusen57
2 жыл бұрын
Right. And the difference will certainly go down with the amount of force going into the pedals. So I really doubt that the stiffness will make much difference when you are riding at a sustainable power level. It is certainly a point for sprinters but for normal riding it would make no difference.
@marcalvarez4890
2 жыл бұрын
@@svenweihusen57 Normal mountain biking IS repeated sprints. Just pointing that out...Its also why i ride carbon soled Pearl Izumi shoes on Egg Beater pedals....Sprinting up and OVER things.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@svenweihusen57 Yes, a better survey was done by BikeRadar and they came up with no difference but then they re not GCN whos business it is to advertise and sell bike gear
@krzysztofszewczyk4124
2 жыл бұрын
Part I wonder what the power difference would be between mtb spd pedals and typical road spd pedals?
@driventomadness117
2 жыл бұрын
Zero. It depends on how stiff the MTB shoes are, but assuming they aren't soft, there is no benefit.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
None ! The whole pedal thing is bent.The Myth of the Upstroke is a proven fact and clipless pedals requiring cleats and pedals and shoes is just yet another cycling con to extract money.Next they will be trying to sell overpriced derailleur pully s and oval chainrings as the next big thing
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
you dont need SPD pedals at all.They are yet another cycling con to sell expensive clipped in pedals when they are not need for 99 % of normal cyclist s who are not indulging in race cycling.zero increase in performance as proved in many studies eg "the Myth of The Upstroke " All this clipped in nonsense was started by the Look ski ing products company moving in on the cycling industry .They make sense in clipping in on skis but not on pedals
@00AntraX00
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 It depends... if you are just cruising with your grand mom, you´re right. In my case, with increasing power, the upstroke is getting longer and in a sprint it´s close to a 360 automatically. In our cycling-world of marginal gains the pedal does have more influence than any other fancy high tech on our roadbikes and they are much cheaper, at least for a sprinter, not for base-training or cruising.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@00AntraX00 utter rubbish , you re easily fooled .None of the pro s mess about like that .They re pounding down only with the legs strongest muscles, the quads. They re not stupid enough to risk injury from the extremely weak hamstrings .Also upstroke effort is fighting against gravity.What idiot tries that .It would be stupid.But then cyclist s fall for all sorts of guff..Thats how companies such as Absolute Black are allowed to be in existence..to fool the morons
@barristerh5379
2 жыл бұрын
Being someone having a 2kw sprint, I go for the stiffest shoe I can find solely to keep my feet from hurting. Crit racing with routine 1kw efforts really fatigues the feet. I could hardly ride 50 miles wearing some flexible nylon soles without my feet screaming in pain.
@buster.keaton
2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see a comparison between a comfortable, walkable clipless shoe like the Bontrager SSR Multisport versus a stiff road shoe. When not racing, it sure is nice to have a shoe that one can actually walk in when not on the bike.
@nathansdad04
2 жыл бұрын
Love my Shimano RX8 shoes. Stiff as hell and easy to walk in
@izi941
2 жыл бұрын
Also, 50W extra (or 1min less) because of stiffness doesn’t help, if you must stop because your feet/legs/body hurts
@driventomadness117
2 жыл бұрын
A stiff MTB shoe loses nothing to a stiff road shoe.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@driventomadness117 any old show will do the same, they don t need to be stiff.flawed science , bs guff to sell pricey crap gear..as usuall with cycling gear
@Solarsystem50
2 жыл бұрын
Nice test. Probably shoe stifness is more important in sprinting and less consequential in regular riding where the power output is less than 300 watts.
@RafaelFaenir
2 жыл бұрын
Kind of... I use MTB shoes on my road bike, and the one I have is relatively flexible (not like a trainer, but more flexible than a reinforced nylon one). I added a very stiff insole and I felt a massive improvement (some 10 more Watts to my FTP - 260 to 270W - and a lower heart rate when at said FTP. So also for longer Tempo and FTP efforts a decent stiffness does help (but yeah, maybe less obviously than on sprints)
@victoryu7820
2 жыл бұрын
A better test would be to pedal at a set speed and see how many watts difference it takes to achieve that same speed between shoes. On a test like the one done by Alex, there’s the placebo effect of using shoes that have been marketed as being better. Having said that, I do like the GCN does science stuff. More please.
@user-fk8rb8ue5h
2 жыл бұрын
Flat pedals with toe clips and straps would've been a better test.
@svenweihusen57
2 жыл бұрын
IMHO a flexible mountain bike shoe with clips would have been a better choice for a comparison. Without clips you need a certain amount of downforce on the upstroke to stay on the pedals.
@nomadcarpenter8549
2 жыл бұрын
Except nobody uses them that isn't from the 1960s
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Don t even need toe clips . flat pedals are just as efficient .The Myth of the Upstroke is a proven fact.The toe clips don t add any power at all they are just there for security to stop slipping..Thats never happened to me in my life .Cyclists are piss easy to con , eg over sized derailleur gear pulleys..oval chain rings
@jacobuserasmus
2 жыл бұрын
7:08 Maybe not as important as you think. Hold on you just showed that there is a 20% difference between a stiff shoe and a soft shoe. 5% between medium to stiff. Aero bike only makes a 5% difference. This is HUGE!
@RossTheNinja
2 жыл бұрын
And you can get a good pair of shoes for about 100 quid. Bikes that give you that improvement would be thousands
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
They did that on purpose and said it was little diffeernce after putting out big difference s in watts when there was a huge difference in their stupid none scientific test of a human pedalling .There was a marked difference in his totally none scientific con trick test of a human .It would have to be done by a mechanical machine to get a proper test done not a lacky from GCN trying to sell products.Con trick
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Thats if you re daft enough to believe that shit fiddled bit of pedaling by a bent human whos trying to sell expensive crappy shoes
@vesalehtinen4534
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 Bikes are usually riden by humans, not mechanical machines you know.
@oeylille
2 жыл бұрын
I'm using mountainbike (xc) shoes on all my bikes. That could also be nice to put in the test.
@MilanSmore
2 жыл бұрын
There's big variance in quality between MTB shoes tho
@chrisridesbicycles
2 жыл бұрын
Same here. Trusty XC Sidis for all riding
@tomreingold4024
2 жыл бұрын
I’m a road cyclist, and yes, SPD cleats are so much more versatile and comfortable than road cleats. I doubt I’ll ever go back to road cleats.
@diegoleiva7242
2 жыл бұрын
I've been a casual for years, riding my road bike with trainer shoes and flat pedals. Last week decided to install some clipless pedals I had in a box and never installed, and turns out they're Shimano MTB pedals with platforms. I'll buy my first clipless shoes in April but I think I got lucky by not having road pedals.
@oeylille
2 жыл бұрын
@@tomreingold4024 I have never tried road pedals, but it's nice to hear your experience. I will probably stick with spd.
@RafaelFaenir
2 жыл бұрын
I recently felt a huge performance improvement by adding a very stiff insole (from Solestar) to my MTB Shoes*. At the trainer my FTP went up by some 10 Watts and my Heart rate was consistently lower when at FTP! (even the updated one!). These very stiff soles are not cheap (mine was 100 Euro), but they are a great way to make a more comfortable shoe very efficient. That is btw a good suggestion for a future test. Hold a steady power close to FTP for some 5 to 10 minutes and see the difference in Heart rate, ie. the physiological "cost" of holding the same power. *I use MTB shoes on my Road Bike, one because I prefer shoes with witch I can walk on, and two because my feet are wide and it's hard to find a wide road shoe, at least on the local shops here. My current shoe is relatively flex-y, something like 3 or 4/10 from the manufacturer scale, so the improvement with the stiff insole was massive!
@henrikerdland578
2 жыл бұрын
There has just been a test on Bikeradar showing that the stiffness of the sole doesn't matter. However I can fell the difference, special when standing up in a sprint.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Virtually no one is ever involved in sprinting .Vast majority of cyclists are hobby bikers or commuters
@henrikerdland578
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 Me too. But I can easily feel my cheap spinning shoes with plastic soles are flexing under my feet when standing in the pedals. On the other hand I don’t feel my carbon road shoes, no matter how hard I’m sprinting.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@henrikerdland578 why are you sprinting..you in cycle races ?
@nsjohnston
2 жыл бұрын
I was getting foot pain after around 80 miles of riding with nylon soled shoes, I tried new footbeds but the issue remained. Moving to carbon soled shoes solved the issue. I can't say for certain it was the stiffness, but the foot pain issue has never returned, and I've been through several pairs of carbon soled shoes now.
@vinson8459
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe because carbon shoes usually are higher-tier therefore have better methods of tightening measures?
@nsjohnston
2 жыл бұрын
@@vinson8459 It was the balls of my feet that got sore. The fastening method was a ratchet strap and 2 velcro straps (they were/are shimano r087, I still have them and use them on the turbo). I've had several carbon soled shoes with that fastening method. I think it was the stiffness, but I can't be certain.
@panzerveps
2 жыл бұрын
For me the sole doesn't matter much, but the width of the shoe is alfa omega.
@nsjohnston
2 жыл бұрын
@@panzerveps yeah, that can make a big difference. I had a pair that were too narrow once, they were awful. These ones were a wide fit, and were comfortable below around 80 miles.
@ericcoxtcu8037
2 жыл бұрын
I use mtb shoes on my gravel bike. One pair is great off the bike due to it's flexibility. On the bike, they're fine when going easy. For races, harder efforts, they hurt my feet. I switched to a pair of Shimano RX-8 gravel shoes for those types of efforts, and the foot pain went away. So for me, stiffness helps when riding hard.
@johngannon1
2 жыл бұрын
I ride road but my choice was based on walkability. I love my Shimano ME5 MTB Shoes 💖
@matteo.ceriotti
2 жыл бұрын
Lama did a similar test with clipless Vs. trainers in straps and found basically no difference in peak power.
@dennisw4654
2 жыл бұрын
Informative experiment. I certainly found value in it being a casual 20 to 40 mile rider. Thank you.
@nk-dw2hm
2 жыл бұрын
That's how I was when I got my first clipless pedals and shoes, luckily I found a great deal on a carbon sole pair because they are amazing. After a good pair of bike shorts they were the best upgrade
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Why ? it would nt ever involve you.You don t get involved in competitive sprints do you..its a con to sell very expensive carbon (plastic most of it ) shoes .Too many cons in cycling and lots fall for it .Oversize derailleur pully wheels, oval chain rings, carbon wheels, carbon seat pins and bars, electronic gears , and most of all bloody disc brakes
@dennisw4654
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 There is a lot of resentment in your words. What we find value in is our experience not to be judged by yours. Yes there is a lot of snake oil out there and in any hobby/industry. BTW, in my riding routines I practice HIIT occasionally to build cardio and VO2 max.
@ChrisCapoccia
2 жыл бұрын
the best tests have some kind of blinding where the shoe looks and feels about the same to the rider, but the sole material is different. pretty tough to do with retail products, but some of the research papers have tried to do it.
@okreidieh
2 жыл бұрын
can you share those papers? What were the results?
@ChrisCapoccia
2 жыл бұрын
@@okreidieh Hurt & Kram. "No effect of cycling shoe sole stiffness on sprint performance". Footwear Science. 2021. 13(1):69-77.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisCapoccia Thanks mate , also BikeRadar have done bigger tests and found zero difference.This is showing up this test to be false by GCN
@ChrisCapoccia
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 there was a measured difference between the shoes, but without more evaluation, you can't say whether the difference was meaningful and definitely can't say it had anything to do with sole stiffness. Many other factors like placebo, upper binding style, order of the tests, fatigue, etc
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisCapoccia totally false measurements.Others have done better measurements using 50 different users not by one person who s job it is to sell cycling products .NO DIFFERENCE found. In any case this is a test for sprints..Virtually no one gets involved in cycle sprinting but you will find idiots spending £200 on a pair of cheap shoes with a plastic carbon fibre sole..Just use chuffing cheap wood if you want to be stiff.I m surprised they don t call them "turbo " shoes lol. Yeah there is resentment , about lying advertisers especially online where they seem to get away with trade description cons .
@kenlua6064
2 жыл бұрын
Better if you add the more stiffer flat pedal shoes in your tests. Like the Shimano or crankbrothers flat pedal shoes. or maybe it should be under gmbn 🤔
@techvelo
2 жыл бұрын
It's was great seeing Ollie back in an F1 car this weekend! He set the fastest time with the Haas F1 car on day 2 of testing in Bahrain.
@nounours2627
2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget a stiffer shoe IS ALSO more comfortable : Apart from some high end pedals with a large surface, most of clipless pedals have tiny surfaces. Cumulate it with a flexible shoe and you end up with a high pressure point on your foot. The harder and/or longer you push, the stiffer your sole and/or the wider your pedal surfaces need to be. Be it for efficiency OR comfort.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Is it hell more comfortable ! thats just your opinion , and its wrong
@nounours2627
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 "Just" my opinion that is shared by a lot of other comments here and by many other cyclists and by my physiotherapist that did my postural study. The physiotherapist that gave us a lesson on ergonomics on bikes during our formation (I'm a bike mechanic) told us comfort is not about softness. He showed us pressure graphics. Discomfort is caused by high pressure and softness only has little to do with it. Badly designed and positioned soft accessories can cause soreness and discomfort. Wood-hard carbon accessories can spread evenly the pressure and be surprisingly comfortable if they're well designed and positioned. What I wrote about pedals and shoes comes from there.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Bike Radar tests say theres no difference..anyway who the hell sprints lol ..virtually no one
@lesterroberts1628
2 жыл бұрын
@@nounours2627 yes. what confuses people is that switching from stiff shoes to soft shoes relieves foot pain. For example, my extremely soft (i can roll them up) barefoot running shoes feel much more comfortable for 2+ hour rides compared to my Shimano mtn bike shoes (using thesame dual platform pedals). However, the pedal is extremely stiff as it is made from aluminum or steel. So, this often provides an illusion when people only stay focused on the shoes and not the entire interface.
@martincosby9743
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting, but surely with the training shoes, toeclips should have been affixed to the pedals. That would have made things fairer
@juliuslandau5467
2 жыл бұрын
No because they're trying to sell you a cycling shoe
@russstarke6004
2 жыл бұрын
Test with one subject. University of Colorado did a 50 person test and came up with no significant statistical difference. 5 second power may not be the best test anyway. How does it play out over a couple of hours? None of this will stop Oliie from using the stiffest known shoe for his 1000 watt challenge.
@AirwolfCrazy
2 жыл бұрын
The thing I found to be the best about using cycling shoes was that I no longer have my feet slip off the pedals. There would be times when I would hit bumps or other situations and my foot would slide off the front or off the back and then, WAM! pedal to the shin. Not anymore.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Odd how all my life I ve never had my feet slip of may pedals at any time .
@beckyball1646
2 жыл бұрын
Approach shoes and toeclips here. Stiffer soles than trainers, waterproof and windproof, easy to walk in off the bike and only need one pair of shoes for multi-day trips. Plus I have enough trouble getting footwear that fits/comfortable, I don't need to add in another type!
@CoresMusic
Жыл бұрын
I’ve got some Nylon comp shoes which are great. Big difference it made for me that hasn’t been mentioned anywhere or part of any of these tests was banking around corners. On my previous flat pedals with toe clips, if I pedalled round corners they’d often bottom out. So I had to coast. But clipless pedals are considerably narrower and I can stay on the gas most of the time now. Definitely worth some tenths, that.
@michaelb1761
2 жыл бұрын
I have bad arches (plantar fasciaitis). I always consider sole stiffness and not just with my cycling shoes but also my hiking shoes and, to a lesser extent, my everyday shoes. Stiff soles help prevent serious pain in my arches.
@andrewbardwell4832
2 жыл бұрын
Short sprints aren’t the reason the average cyclist buys stiff shoes... I wear stiff shoes so that at the end of a three hour group ride my feet don’t ache.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Mine have never ached in my life and I go much longer than three hours .I wear whatever I fancy and I m surely not conned in getting involved in clipless pedals .The Myth of the Upstroke has proven beyond doubt that clipless pedals make zero difference .So no need for cleats screwed into overpriced stupid shoes
@andrewbardwell4832
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 I couldn’t disagree more... I ride roughly 4,000km per year, with significant elevation and the ability to pull up, rather than push down, has made a huge difference in my ability to push longer and harder. And 35 years ago I was using toe clips on my flat pedals. If you don’t find value in clipless pedals don’t wear them. But personally I’m glad I’ve got them.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewbardwell4832 You re completely and utterly wrong but I m not going to argue with you.Just do some googling and you will get the evidence why would you waste energy to fight against gravity attempting to pull up .Its inefficient and uses weak muscles which would make the stronger quads doing the down stroke less efficient. Power meters have proved it that even if you think you re pulling up , you re not really .You don t even need to be clipped in .Just normal pedals and any old shoe do the same job
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewbardwell4832 Clipless over flats are exactly the same .Plenty of stuff online to prove it categorically .The Myth of the Upstroke has been explained. No point in even trying to add power via very weak hamstring as you fight against gravity and lesson the down stroke of cyclings strongest muscles the quads .Even those who think they re adding power on the upstroke are not actually doing anything. You end up injuring yourself trying to upstroke .Normal cyclists not involved in extreme sprinting do not ever need to manacled to pedals.The skiing company Look started this off to sell more of their clips
@andrewbardwell4832
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 long before clipless pedals people used toe clips. I’m curious, do you ride yourself?
@Alan_Hans__
2 жыл бұрын
When doing sprint testing with clipless shoes it will also be how well the foot is restrained into the shoe and potentially the springiness of the shoe upper material. As the clipless allows you to pull up it is there more than anything where losses can occur. Instead of a 5s sprint I'd like to see if there was any power differences when doing a FTP test. Sprinting is really the only time that clipless shoes have any real benefit.
@marcalvarez4890
2 жыл бұрын
MTB....where you're sprints are 1500 watts repeatedly....and you CANT get over or past something with any less power.....Stiff shoes, that you can pull up with, help. It helps a LOT. On the other hand, if you're carrying a bike on your shoulder to climb something, a little flex helps traction a lot. Also, the size of the cleat platform makes a big difference. I ride Egg Beaters, and without carbons soles, i can FEEL the shoes bending around that tiny brass cleat....and I'm not even a big guy (140 pounds), nor putting out 2000+ watts. So, depends on your terrain, hiking needs, and cleat area.
@mikeeckhaus
2 жыл бұрын
I have a pair of nylon soled shoes and a pair of high end carbon soled shoes. In my data, I can’t see any difference in power, and I find them both comfortable. What I did learn is that the insoles I use have a large influence in comfort over long rides. Super thin or hard insoles bother me if riding over three hours, so I have a medium-ish hardness set of soles that I use in both pairs now.
@yusufhaekal8859
2 жыл бұрын
Cleat vs non cleat give u more secure while off saddle or fast cadence with no worries tripping ur shoes from the pedals, as might happened to the flat shoes. Meanwhile talking abt flexy vs stiffer cleat shoes might givin u effects based on physics, but consider if u gone for an endurance cycling, that a bit flexy shoes give u some stretches on ur feet in a long run cycling Just in my opinion and testing
@Rose_Butterfly98
2 жыл бұрын
Idk about f12 but I've definitely seen an f8 with flats before, same pedals as me at the time some HT super thin pedals. He was also wearing sandals like me. Sandals are the most breathable and the most comfortable for me. Also, I get caught in the rain a lot, don't have to deal with soggy socks if you aren't wearing any.
@QChen-ed1hx
Жыл бұрын
Beside the output, the comfort also the key factor. I start with a shimano Nylon road shoes with stiffness index as 6 out of 12. With long ride (over 2 hours) I will feel numb with my feet. Now I am still using Shimano R320 (same generation of my first pair but it is the top tier product) with stiffness index 12, never feel numb anymore. Same brand, same size, same cleat adjustment. Somehow beside the sole, the surface also feel fitting better with feet even the entire design/size/etc are the same.
@LukaszMielczarek
2 жыл бұрын
3:51 I don't know about F12 but I've seen Bianchi Oltre with mtb pedals and dude was wearing vans, cotton grey shorts, hoodie and full face helmet I must admit that was so random
@shaldon08
Жыл бұрын
I bought s works mtb shoes that I use for all purposes and they are amazing. They also allow for the clear to be positioned far back. Something that is hard to find in shoes I find
@mattshipstone9361
2 жыл бұрын
It's like everything else in cycling. The very base spec (eg Eurobike) should be avoided, but mid range (eg 105) is good enough for 90% of cyclists. The top spec is for the Marginal Gains types.
@mikemurphy1856
2 жыл бұрын
Stiffness will get you the most watts, but I tend to avoid carbon soles. I Used a carbon soled shoe for several years and found that my feet would fatigue over long distance rides. The nylon sole was the best compromise for me. Gave me adequate power and provides enough flex that my feet don't ache after a longer ride. Now, everyone is different, and will have different pain thresholds so do what's best for you. If you can get away with the carbon soles they'll definitely perform better.
@chrisridesbicycles
2 жыл бұрын
I‘m surprised that the differences are so big. I tested my big MTB flat pedals with the MTB flat pedal shoes against my carbon sole Sidis and found almost no difference. Maybe I have a different sprint technique than Alex.
@talonlan
2 жыл бұрын
Nothing can really be gained from a test of 1-2 riders.
@SonnyDarvishzadeh
2 жыл бұрын
I was skeptical at first, but your test was really good. It confirms personal experience and everyone else's stories.
@chrisdunn8215
2 жыл бұрын
Good video Alex and nice power outputs 👊 smashed it. When is Ollies 1000 watt challenge results coming out he making us wait a long time! Makes me think he is going for 1200 watts to surprise us 😆
@andrei0525
2 жыл бұрын
After seeing the power Alex puts out and after watching the GMBN-GCN cycle speedway video i want to see you put blake on a power meter because the way he sprinted off the line was insane
@parenthlete
2 жыл бұрын
Clips make a difference especially for sprinting as can also pull … the efficiency for longer rides is surprisingly not much higher for clipless shoes Re stiffness the difference in stiffness between a mid 60-75 gbp pair of road shoes and top end is not that huge Might be weight has a small benefit but I’d choose a show now days mostly on fit to max comfort and reduce injury so it’s whatever the local bike fitter thinks matches your physique best imo
@robb1267
2 жыл бұрын
1:18 Ollie is looking a bit malnourished this week. :)
@meibing4912
2 жыл бұрын
What about us who sprint @650 Watts? LOL!
@billkallas1762
2 жыл бұрын
When I first started riding in the early 80's, I just used trainers with toe clips. I discovered that they were alright for rides less than two hours, but for rides of 5 hours or more, my feet would begin to hurt, and the bottoms of my feet would feel bruised the next day. When I started racing, there were no carbon fiber soled shoes. Nylon soled shoes could get you through a three hour race, but left your feet slightly sore the next day. I finally picked up a pair of Super Stiff Duegi 101's, that actually used a wooden sole to provide the stiffness. By the late 80's, clipless pedals were becoming standard equipment, along with carbon soled shoes. Nylon soled shoes are fine for two hour rides. PS. Not sure if they still make them, but Sedi used to make a shoe that used Carbon AND Nylon in their sole to provide stiffness almost as good as all Carbon.
@jeskli11
2 жыл бұрын
I've had only one pair of road shoes, so I can't compare that, but having now fourth pair of summer MTB shoes with stiffness index of 9/12 (Shimano) I can say for sure that especially on the rough stuff and on longer steady state effort the last and so the stiffest shoes are by far the most comfortable. I also have winter MTB shoes with stiffness of 5/12 (also Shimano) and they are also way more comfortable than the previous, less stiff shoes. The cleats were set up as close as possible to the previous pairs, so my feelings shouldn't be affected by different cleat positions.
@mathewrose2951
2 жыл бұрын
I have a fairly narrow foot, and I find that certain brands like Sidi are the most comfortable for long days out because their stiff carbon soles are a nice, stable platform so my feet don't slide about or move.
@MattSwain1
2 жыл бұрын
Aside from fit then next on my list is the stiffest sole I can get. I had an accident a few years ago and damaged bones in my left foot, so a flexible sole puts pressure on those damaged bones and becomes painful after a while so as counter-intuitive as it is, a stiffer sole is more comfortable for me
@ghcheong
Жыл бұрын
Also keep in mind that with Nylon soled cycling shoes or fiberglass and carbon reenforced shoes, they need to put in more materials to achieve the level of stiffness on the shoe, thus increasing the effective crank length. It may have hip function ramifications.
@wheelfree
2 жыл бұрын
I use flat rubber sole canvas shoes on flat pedals as running shoes with thick midsole will absorb some of the pedaling force.
@playandteach
2 жыл бұрын
Over 30 years ago, I visited a ski shop to get some heat moulded insoles made, but to use in walking boots. They are stiff. The shop said they'd crack in walking boots, but never did. Now I use them in my cycling shoes, and that seems a really good compromise. I've wasted a lot of money over the years on things that didn't change my world, but these insoles have certainly paid for themselves.
@solitaryrefinement6787
2 жыл бұрын
I believe in "strategic stiffness". I have a pair of 4 year old Sidi Fives that are carbon blended nylon soled with more flex at certain locations. I have to say they are noticeably more comfortable than my all carbon Sidis Ergos were. No hotspots for me. I'm betting manufacturers are going to move to hybrid soles eventually except maybe for pure performance shoes.
@powergear5
Жыл бұрын
Nice comparison, exactly what im looking for! clearly cycling shoes outweighs trainers any day! thank you GCN.
@Atis602
2 жыл бұрын
I have no doubt that the trainers would have lost any comparison but in all fairness at the very least they should have been used with strap in toe clip pedals.
@MoggioMTB
2 жыл бұрын
I had a broken bone in my foot that just would not heal properly until I went to stiffer shoes and had a really rigid platform. Definitely prefer them while riding for comfort too... just awful when I get off the bike.
@michaelalbany
2 жыл бұрын
Health benefits of a stiff shoe is off the charts. Get Turf Toe just once and you're off the bike for 6-8 weeks. My Doctor says stiff is better and since those initial 8 weeks off I haven't had an issue with my feet. I went to a higher end shoe and I am not going back. More watts, better health, and more riding? Stiff as possible please!
@manoz6194
2 жыл бұрын
Bike certainly feels more responsive with a stiffer shoes but I'm not a wattage bazooka, more like a wattage water gun lol
@hes_no_rocketsurgeon
2 жыл бұрын
You're so lucky. I'm a wattage leaking faucet over here.😉
@stuarthammond2030
2 жыл бұрын
It's about time the whole industry got a grip with its sizing. A large in the UK can be a 2XL in Castelli. Shoes are the same. 43 44 or 45 can all be the same for in different manufacturers so EU sizing means didly.
@talonlan
2 жыл бұрын
I kind of think on the world of cycling there are loads of gains to be had from component choice. I personally would only really worry about relative stiffness of your shoes after you have other areas properly dialed in. Going from a stiffness factor of 7 to a 9-10 is going to cost you big time.
@andreiarama8745
2 жыл бұрын
Stiffer sole means less pain under your feet on longer rides?
@Southerncyclist
2 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see watt savings on a cheaper heavier shoe versus a ultra light expensive shoe. Over say a 1hr ride, or a climb, it is rotation weight and stagnant for climbing.
@alexntemperley
Жыл бұрын
20% power increase from trainer to carbon sole. That's a massive gain!
@DrSomhairle
2 жыл бұрын
5% is a pretty good gain, if that was for every power duration the stiffer would be better!
@davidhenry5925
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, very informative. I'm looking for a new pair of shoes. It looks like decent stiffness and great comfort are the right combination for me. Thanks!
@gcntech
2 жыл бұрын
Hope you found it helpful
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@gcntech I did nt .I found it a load of crap and have no faith in your honesty .BikeRadar have done better testing and found zero differences..Top Marathan runners run in very soft running shoes with a spring effect or energy return effect
@jeffreylee5770
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. How about shoes that would be for commuters, i.e. how do regular shoes do versus sneakers or boots for the rain? Lots of us are not trying to maximize watts but to have a better and safer ride to work and home.
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
You won t get any sense or truth from GCN as they re in the business of selling overpriced unnecessary gear.Its proven beyond doubt that clipping in ( causing accidents ) is not needed .The Myth of The Upstroke is a proven fact and makes no difference to power efficiency
@russellpanter4169
2 жыл бұрын
Oddly enough, I got a Strava KOM riding in trainers on clipless pedals. We'll ignore that the segment has had five riders in as many years, it's a KOM! I bought the bike while traveling for work so the proper shoes were far away and I really wanted to ride.
@gcntech
2 жыл бұрын
A KOM is a KOM, the rest is all details 😉
@christianrodriguez3531
2 жыл бұрын
I like my Bonts, took a fair bit of persuasion with a hair dryer to get the fit right and that was a bit of a faff but it was worth it inthe end.
@The1trueDave
2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't mind betting that a fair chunk of the difference between the flexible trainers and the nylon-soled midrange shoes is actually down to the difference between flat and clipless pedals. You're introducing another variable here that you didn't have to. Even just bolting some cleats onto some £20 Lidl trainers (with a credit-card-sized steel reinforcing plate just to stop the cleat ripping out) would have removed that uncertainty. Secondly there absolutely is a way to measure the stiffness of any given structural object, namely to measure its deflection under a given load. You'd have to make sure all soles were the same size because obviously a size 47 sole would deflect a lot more than a size 35, but such a test would give you a much better basis for comparison. You can get pedal force data from any power meter so it wouldn't be too hard to replicate the variance in load throughout the pedal stroke for a 5sec sprint, 1min hard effort and 20min sustained effort for example. I would guess from your test and from certain comments on here that perhaps this matters more at high (say >1000w) power outputs than at the more modest levels (250-500w) that most of your viewers will output on a typical ride...
@JimKJeffries
2 жыл бұрын
My winter shoes are amazing road shoes & the rest of the year are high end mtb. The amount of energy saved over an 8hr plus ride with those stiff road shoes are amazing. It feels as though there is energy in them that simply converts to motion.
@enotracoon9244
2 жыл бұрын
True. On carbon shoes I can make 1000+ watts easier than om my nylon shoes
@enonbusiness8156
2 жыл бұрын
Looks and comfort are the characteristics most important for me
@Seanlamoureux603
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I use my sneakers on egg beater pedals while I'm on the trainer. I don't know why I do it, but I just do.
@wiljaq2773
2 жыл бұрын
I think you missed the point. I think the stiffness of a sole comes more in play when constantly putting the power down in climbing rather than sprinting where is mostly aids just in the beginning kicking.
@ytyehyeh
2 жыл бұрын
When I saw this video title, I was expecting a test using the trainer in erg mode but measuring rider output using a crank-based power meter to see how much harder it is to put out a given level of power in the various shoe+pedal combinations. Does that make sense, or am I off base with that experiment? EDIT: on second thought, that test makes no sense, there'd be no difference since nothing would measure losses at the shoe. I guess you'd need the rider to report how much their feet hurt, and maybe measure cadence differences. Maybe with a pedal based power meter with pedaling dynamics measures (and maybe using an spd-flat-platform adapter for trainers with the Garmin XC SPD power pedals and carbon and nylon/fiberglass MTB shoes for direct attachment).
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Really don t want a human with his variable human efforts involved at all.Was a stupid test.Bike Radar did a bigger one using 50 different humans and showed no differences
@Gufolicious
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 u are annoying as hell sir. Just put your cheap flat pedals on your roadbike and use your runningshoes to cycle and be happy with it if you think clips are useless and carbons soles are a joke.
@nathansdad04
2 жыл бұрын
The BOA knobs on those shoes are HUGE. Surprised they can’t be made lower profile/aero
@MrLuigi-oi7gm
2 жыл бұрын
Fun video to watch. But the experiment would have been more revealing if you used a "normal" lace type mid-priced clip-in shoe rather than a winter shoe that uses a zipper. I can't imagine a zipper holds your foot in pla e as securely compared to a lace system.
@mikkojolkkonen5932
2 жыл бұрын
It has Boa closing system. Zipper only closes the waterproof layer. Check 1:43.
@MrLuigi-oi7gm
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikkojolkkonen5932 Ah! Good catch. Thanks!
@leonschumann2361
2 жыл бұрын
shoes are probably the most important part of your whole cycling system. not because of power transfere itself. foot stability is the big part and with sprints especially, hamstring engagement with clipless pedals is very important
@thegrowl2210
2 жыл бұрын
Would've been interested in some SPD MTB shoes like 5.10s or giro casual shoes.
@izi941
2 жыл бұрын
1min faster over 40min because of stiffness and 10min slower because your feet hurts. The same is with all the aero/racing stuff. Comfort is way more important.
@jamesong2672
2 жыл бұрын
You should be using a RC5 vs a RC902. Both have to clip on.
@kuri8015
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I'd love to see it tested on a regular ride rather than a sprint. Might be tricky to do...
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
it would nt show any difference at all in a normal ride , say 30 miles or so .There was no point in sprinting as next to no one ever indulges in sprints. So thats why he did a sprint as end of the day GCN are involved in selling gear
@egutzait
2 жыл бұрын
Should have included stiff sole flat MTB shoes to see how they compare to the mid range offering.
@tomreingold4024
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been riding with stiff cycling shoes and cleats for many years. I have foot problems, so maybe I’m not a good person to do this type of experiment. Or maybe I’m an ideal experimenter. I don’t know. My problem is that I have bunions and I am impinging some nerves so sometimes I get severe pain, and it’s in proportion to how long my rides are. I’ve tried stiffer shoes and more flexible shoes, and I can’t tell. My goal is not peak performance but long-term comfort. And performance-seeking cyclists might also want to consider that, too, because fatigue can reduce your peak power and also endurance. I have a theory, not yet tested, that being able to change positions might reduce my fatigue. So I’m giving flat pedals another try. It’s strangely difficult for me to relearn using flat pedals without cleats, because I tend to move my feet too far back on the pedals. I believe recent studies have shown that the advantages of cleats (being able to pull up, push forward, and pull back) are not as big as we thought. I think the main advantage to cleats, at least for me, is that my foot won’t slip off inadvertently. I think cleats create an illusion of greater efficiency, something I believed until I read those recent studies. I’m impressed that your not-quite-scientific study in this video shows an advantage of stiff shoes at all. Yes it showed a small advantage, and that difference could be attributed to errors in measurement rather than real difference, but I suspect what you found was real. You’re surprised it’s as small as it is, but I’m surprised it’s as big as it is.
@michaelmechex
2 жыл бұрын
That actually made much bigger difference than I expected. I'm guessing that lower the watts, lower the difference, so during a low intensity ride the difference could be pretty meaningless.
@OFFSHOREDOUG
2 жыл бұрын
They do save you from having sore feet though.
@fabianirsara9846
2 жыл бұрын
How about a casual Z2 ride though? I could imagine the difference in power transfer is far far less between stiff and ultra stiff?
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
Seeing as this test was bent and bigger testing have been done showing zero difference, the normal hobby cyclist is wasting his hard earned for no reason..In fact its proven beyond doubt that clipless pedals have no difference neither over flats
@fabianirsara9846
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 oh no I would strongly disagree. You’re “locked in” a certain position and won’t slip around. But most importantly you’re able to pull(!!) up engaging your calf muscles. Apart from being extremely efficient if you use the entire circle within one pedal stroke, I’ve had numerous times where I quads started becoming pretty sore and I just switched to mostly pulling for like 5-10 minutes until my quads are better Now with the knowledge I can even apply those things pretty well on shorter climbs. I.e. when seated you can mostly pull and when you stand up you can hammer down with your quads, get back in the saddle, etc
@stuartchester7414
2 жыл бұрын
@@fabianirsara9846 Oh give over ! The Myth of the Uplift has been proven to be totally true by a number of long term studies and just another con. Firstly the muscle group involved in uplift is the very weak hamstrings and they would be working against the forces of gravity and actually impeding the much stronger quads which do all the work .Its proven by monitoring the watts on the uplift that even if you think you re doing some work in reality you re not..Just google around Myth of the Uplift and stop being fooled
@fabianirsara9846
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 I don’t have to google anything. I can feel it and it kinda saved me from riding an everesting 😅
@fabianirsara9846
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuartchester7414 but hey if you’re cool with flat pedals stick to them. Nothing wrong with changing anything that’s not broken 👌🏻
@ryanseah2083
2 жыл бұрын
Does different type on clippers pedal give different power output? Hope can see a test on that. Heard some rumors say speedplay give better power output.
@nk-dw2hm
2 жыл бұрын
I love having stiff soles. Good tires, good shorts, and good shoes are all worth it. Contact points are key
@tubbytoast2
2 жыл бұрын
So hold on you are saying at the end of race I could be putting out potential another 50 watts for the last 5 seconds of my sprint if I changed from my nylon soles to carbon ones , gee I lost a local bike race last week by less than 1/4 of a wheel that was probably Less than 50 watts ,
@RichardMigneron
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂 You caught me by surprise when you said "... in front of myself and Ollie. "
@NordicUrs
2 жыл бұрын
Haaaaa, loved naming the boneman Ollie
@jean-philippelesne598
Жыл бұрын
great price easy to set up.
@brandonherrera2891
2 жыл бұрын
I ride Sunday mornings(because way too much traffic the other days) only, for about 1 hour 30 minutes. The other days, I'm on my indoor spin bike. Would it be worth it for me to go clipless pedals or not? I do ride quite hard/fast when I'm out. I have a '21 bmc alr, if that matters.
@Penalist
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I feel better connected to the bike with clipless en proper road shoes.
@Alphard_adventures
2 жыл бұрын
Now Alex we’re you pulling up on the clipped in shoes ??? Can’t do that on flats , could mean that gap is even closer on the trainers to mid range ???
@jlboynton
2 жыл бұрын
Love the helmet on the skeleton!
@CanHammer
2 жыл бұрын
What’s truly gangster about this is riding a Pinarello with mangy trainers haha
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