I have two REL Predators for my LFE and run three high-level T9x for my LCRs, one for each channel, a high-level T9i for my surround channels and another high-level T9x for my back surrounds. All I can say is that it sounds amazing. Great video - thank you.
@caballerosuave
2 жыл бұрын
@James Lunn, I am considering doing something similar in my living room which is 18'x15'x9'. What is the size of the space where you run the setup? Is it a dedicated or multipurpose room like a living room?
@007LoveGun
2 жыл бұрын
@@caballerosuave my room is 3m by 5m and in a dedicated room. Light controlled room. Let me know if you’ve got any other questions, etc.
@johndavis4651
2 жыл бұрын
Are you using speakon connections or airship for your surround Hi-level surrounds Thank you
@keepingupwiththejones2933
2 жыл бұрын
This was a fantastic explanation for why bass matters so much when watching a movie.
@johnnyno2748
2 жыл бұрын
I use the high level connection, with plain speaker wires, from the center channel with a SVS SB1000 after reading about the REL 3D audio setup. The two ELAC 3010 subs I use are connected to the 2 LFE channel outputs on the Denon receiver. The impact was immediate with low frequencies always present with the LR and center stage now running all at full range.
@tylee5291
2 жыл бұрын
I've been doing this since I first put my theater together in 2001. I didn't know it had a name associated. I always thought that for my theater to sound it's best and better than everyone else's (lol) it needed WEIGHT all around. Having subs on the front left and right to support soundtracks and sound effects vs just one sub for LFE was important to me. Things felt balanced. And the center begged for a sub. James Earl Jones needed a sub. Music concert videos needed a sub for kick drums and bass (The Eagles When Hell Freezes Over). Once I added those subs ...total game changer. Added a Rel HT 1205 for surrounds and that just upped the game. I was watching 2020's Invisible Man and realized there was this bass note that was present in the rear surrounds in the final 30 seconds of the movie. Never would've known it was there had I not had that rear sub. Blade Runner 2020 and Mad Max: Fury Road have things coming from behind to the front of you and both have great bass presence. HIGHLY recommend subs on center, left and right and rear. EACh speaker definitely benefits from having a sub!
@chrissheldrick4073
Жыл бұрын
So you run all your speakers full range. Any issues with reciver having enough power..
@tylee5291
Жыл бұрын
@@chrissheldrick4073 I have a processor / amp combo. And yes, I run all speakrrs full range.
@donaldfleming331
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Shane, Yes I have full range with all my of 9 lower level speakers. All Vandersteen speaker system. Vandersteen Quatro CTs for LR, VSM signatures surrounds and 4 atmos, Vandy subs using high pass filters. 4 SVS sb3000s for LFE. My room 18x25. Love the setup and no going back. Now looking to get Trinnov, or Anthem , and upgrade to REL 1508 or 1510s.
@therealshanelee
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome. Grab a Trinnov and don’t look back.
@donaldfleming331
2 жыл бұрын
@@therealshanelee thought us were going to a b McIntosh vs trinnov amps? Maybe u can do trinnov amplitude vs ATI class d
@imlilchilywily
2 жыл бұрын
Thnx for the GREAT follow up to the last 3D video, I’ve tried a similar approach with a different (budget friendly to my pocket book) subwoofer brand but I’m saving to replace with Rels in the near future. I’m completely hooked on the sound difference the high level connections make for each L&R speakers, so that the sound stage can be set to Large/full range. My goal is to have the Rel pinned to my Center soon & then move on to my Surround & Back Surround to compete my 7 bed layer speakers 👊🏼
@caballerosuave
2 жыл бұрын
Hey man, brick by brick! I started with the HT/1205. Now I'm planning to add subs to the L/C/R; I haven't decided on the Serie S or Serie T/x yet.
@pnevin98
2 жыл бұрын
Damnit Shane! Now you have me already planning moving my left front sub to the left rear of the room and leave my right front sub where it is.
@wyldeslash2003
2 жыл бұрын
Oh the humanity!
@GameSack
2 жыл бұрын
I always recommend going full range when you can. Routing all of the signals to the subwoofer is just too much for that one channel to handle and it can't be precisely dialed into your speakers AND perform well as a LFE channel. Just not happenin'. The front three are most important to have full range, but I'd set the other speakers full range as well even if they're small just to keep their noise out of the LFE channel. The surrounds and overheads in movie theaters aren't exactly pumpin' out da phat bass due to their size so in my opinion that's fine at home as well. And no, movie theaters do not route their low frequencies to the subwoofer. That's amateur hour.
@caballerosuave
2 жыл бұрын
The settings have to do with the frequency response of the speakers rather than their size.
@GameSack
2 жыл бұрын
@@caballerosuave Correct, hence the term "full range".
@joekool5676
Жыл бұрын
@ Gamesack, if I have 2 subs that are not REL , should I run my 5 base channels as large. Odyssey set my Left and right as large. Also if you run speakers large then should change setting in receiver to LFE+MAIN correct?
@Novilicious
2 жыл бұрын
I have a 5.5 Rel 3D setup in a same size room as you shane. You’d love it!
@johndavis4651
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane Great review. More info regarding REL 3D and full range setups for home theater is a welcome addition. Great video much appreciated! Because this seems to be a new setup philosophy for some of us and because you've been able to AB this vs a more traditional 7.2.2 setup what is your preference in regards to sound immersion and overall movie experience when watching? Really enjoy your content. Thx again
@satoriflight3978
Жыл бұрын
Great review! I'll keep my 1205 MK1 in the rear but upgrade from the T5x to the T9x for the center, before upgrading my Predator.
@whitecrowuk575
2 жыл бұрын
Unless you create dedicated sub with high pass for majority of channels don’t connect it via LFE as well. Best bang for buck would be to add dedicated sub with high pass to center channel. For music - stereo subs for LRs. And then add 2 strong subs for LFE. I believe rest of the channels, judging from you reaction, give minuscule return for money.
@JPWinters
2 жыл бұрын
Shane: "Are you adjusting the phase?"..... BURN lmao
@raphaelmeillat8527
2 жыл бұрын
It's a very intriguing concept! Will likely try in the near future. Thinking about a t5x to support central channel...
@dfalekulo9138
2 жыл бұрын
Just make sure your speakers can handle full range guys or you may have a blown speaker. 40hz minimum
@ticketman617
Жыл бұрын
Question: thinking of doing REL T9X for high level & Rhytmic 15 or 18 for LFE. What’s your thoughts?
@chrissheldrick4073
Жыл бұрын
Can some one help me with this...If you connect a sub using the high level and lfe inputs..arn't you asking the sub to play 2 different channel's at once
@shaneducholke364
2 жыл бұрын
So just so I am not misunderstanding anything. For this set up, you should have a separate sub for each of the LCR and then separate 0.1 subs? If you have extreme 0.1 subs like JTR and then good little subs like REL, how can you hear the smaller individual suns with their speakers if they are drowned out by the monster main subs? Or does this only work if all suns are in the same power ballpark. In my room with three 18" subs each with 3000 watts of power, I don't see how some small 500 watt 12' subs connected to each speaker will even be noticed??
@demonreturns4336
2 жыл бұрын
It sounds like a waste of time and money 💰 💴 💵 You’d hardly hear the small ass tiny subs doing much of anything If you already have monster subs and applying a crossover to all the speakers properly to the subs you ain’t missing nothing
@rayking507
2 жыл бұрын
So just to make sure, when we make the speakers run large and connect the subs only via high level we set the cross over from the back of the subs right. And also I would still like to cross over at around 80hz just to be on the safe side, is that ok even with high level connection.
@CharlLotter
2 жыл бұрын
@SpareChange - The Trinnov has the capability, in it's Bass Management feature, to cross over a speaker to any specific subwoofer. Have you compared this method versus Trinnov's implementation? I ask because this seems like more work for no apparent benefit.
@therealshanelee
2 жыл бұрын
Yes the Trinnov can do the same thing. For those that don't have a Trinnov this is the easiest way to do it.
@CharlLotter
2 жыл бұрын
@@therealshanelee I agree. As always, thank you for sharing :)
@guillermomartin8248
Жыл бұрын
So is there any point to the High level connection on the Rel subs like the Serie S with a Trinnov processor? I currently have the Altitude 16 and two Rel subs, was looking to get a Serie S for HL to my L+R plus LFE and a smaller t/9 for the Center HL.
@erikhermans4003
2 жыл бұрын
Hi there, Another great video! The 1205, how is it connected to the rear speakers? Hope to hear from you. Have a nice day. Grtz
@therealshanelee
2 жыл бұрын
Through LFE in.
@erikhermans4003
2 жыл бұрын
@@therealshanelee And LFE out of the receiver?
@Eugene737
2 жыл бұрын
@@erikhermans4003 Yeah probably. I didn't find it surprising when they tested it off, that they didn't hear the engine sound. The back sub is helping with that null.
@MrMaxi3140
2 жыл бұрын
So when connecting the 1510 via high level, was that connection wireless? Also, is there a way to connect a 1510 via high level but without the wireless kit and instead hard wired so there isn't a delay?
@MRPC5
2 жыл бұрын
REL manual says that you can use the high level and .1/lfe input at the same time, but does anyone know if you can use the l/r low level inputs and the .1/lfe at the same time with the S series subs?
@lightningwaves5436
2 жыл бұрын
I tried it with a line output converter. It works. It sounds AMAZIN'! Now I only use low level outputs because those high level output converters are a fire hazard and they only put out noise. Regular rca outs from a preamp work almost as well, much less noise. I prefer stereo to surround sound though. High end audio equipment will destroy most mid budget home theaters and setup is so much simpler.
@sushisushifriedrice
Жыл бұрын
excluding the additional rear sub playing LFE, how are the front 2 subs connected via high level (full range) to the L/R and Center speakers, different from if the front 2 subs are connected and receiving signals with a crossover (say 80Hz) from the front stage all together (LCR speakers)?
@wadimek116
Жыл бұрын
Im honestly not sure about it. I used my subwoofers temporarily with stereo amp without lfe output to fill the lows but movies without lfe didn't had an amazing bass. I much prefer to use all subwoofers to use lfe channel rather than boost fronts
@archsreecbe
Жыл бұрын
Hi Shane, Is the 1205 in the rear connected to the air ship (for surround bass + LFE) as well? If not, then surround bass will play on both front 1510 & rear 1205 via LFE due to crossover isn't it?
@guillermomartin8248
Жыл бұрын
1205 is not airship compatible for HL
@rogersolberg4914
2 жыл бұрын
Hi. Will you run this setup yourself? Do you use any room correction? How do you time aliment the subs? Will you recommend full range and subs on all channels?(maybe not the Atmos ones)
@bigpete8567
2 жыл бұрын
Isn’t bass omnidirectional? I have a 12” front centre and 12” front rear woofer, works fine for me!
@caballerosuave
2 жыл бұрын
Big Pete, your room can still experience nulls in the space. This is the reason for multiple subs. This is a good spot to read up: rel.net/blog/
@GameSack
2 жыл бұрын
It's less directional, but it's still quite directional.
@bigpete8567
2 жыл бұрын
@@caballerosuave it is EQ’d no nules, flat line from 120hz to 18hz then role off.
@bigpete8567
2 жыл бұрын
@@GameSack my friends is a sound engineer, has designed his on studio, he says multi sub is the way with EQ and large deep bass traps. Put subs opposite in a room. Works fine in my room
@shaneducholke364
2 жыл бұрын
If you have subs connected to the front speakers and don't have a dedicated LFE, of course you will not have bass if no sound is coming out of the LCR as your other speakers will be set to small and therefore there for no low frequency. That's not a revelation, that's just common sense
@mrlinde6518
2 жыл бұрын
How would you EQ a 3d rel theater? Either DIRAC or Trinnov? You are basicly trying to create full range speakers with a crossover point. I am guessing this demo was done without the Trinnov optimizer engaged?
@mrlinde6518
2 жыл бұрын
@@caballerosuave I am actually using DIRAC live with the bass module for multiple subs. However the problem is DIRAC will see some subs as the .1 LFE which is fine, but it will EQ them to the surrounds and find a perfect transition for the XO's. Then you add a high level sub to those surrounds and dirac now see's a response from the surround + high level sub and EQ's that fullrange without considering the fact that it is a sub + surround as you set it to large. Large for dirac isnt sub + surround - it's just large recieving a full range signal. Thus I see a huge problem EQ'ing REL 3D theater. I guess instead you just drop the high level and redirect bass in DIRAC if you have something like the Storm Audio. I tried the Lyngdorf MP-40 and it can redirect bass as well, it didnt work well for me. Also using subs locally for a surround for instance causes the problem of very uneven bass in the room.
@caballerosuave
2 жыл бұрын
@@mrlinde6518 Have you watched John Hunter’s video on tuning REL subs? In it, he discussed tuning the same system for both music and theater. He’s not overly interested in auto-room correction. But, when you tune for theater using Dirac or another software, he recommends disconnecting the high-level connection and using the LFE connection only. Also, I suspect that if Dirac sees your subs differently, you need to examine the settings in your processor to be sure they are correct. Have you sent a support ticket to Dirac or the processor manufacturer?
@yarnliving-lindehobby
2 жыл бұрын
@@caballerosuave So in essense REL 3D theater is a no go unless you want the hazzle of disconnecting/connecting high level going back and forth from theater to stereo. Basicly it would be impossible to EQ correct using the high level connection. Also it does not solve standing waves issues near as well because you are not maximising multiple subs to help to get even bass across the seating area except for the LFE part. In my opinion a "REL 3D theater/full range speakers" is best obtained by using either a Storm audio or Trinnov and reroute bass from subs local to any speaker in the setup. This way you can make sure you are EQ'ing everything correct and if you wish add some sub bass to nearby speakers. Even then I would be worried about bass variation across the seating area. Going "fullrange" on any speaker in a surround setup reduces overall bass output from that speaker as it now only is supported from the local sub and it will have larger seat to seat variation in the bass region.
@JohnSmith-qt4pv
Жыл бұрын
@@yarnliving-lindehobby You will not be able to properly room correct a system like this with an auto system like Dirac or trinnov. You will need a DSP unit like an ashly protea with enough input and output channels. First you need a DSP with an output channel for each individual sub and speaker in the system, a calibrated measurement mic like the umik-1, REW and rePhase and then build all the FIR and IIR filters to do all the frequency response, phase response/timing and crossover adjustments. It is quite a bit technical so unless you're willing to learn how to do it yourself there is no solution
@whitecrowuk575
4 ай бұрын
@@JohnSmith-qt4pvsnake oil. How to get people to buy more rel subs in environment (HT) which rel high pass solution doesn’t make sense whatsoever . They built entire business based on high pass but now more and more stereo amps have bass management and don’t require high pass.
@yogabyaakaash
Жыл бұрын
Looking at working towards a 3D system, if I have a single 800 watts sub for LFE, what would be my next sub ? Would it be one for the centre or for the LR towers?
@Vitone22
Жыл бұрын
Def tech towers speakers perform well at full range with this type of work. You’ll just have to get towers to act as surrounds 😂
@pulDag
2 жыл бұрын
Ok. And how can I solve peaks and dips with this kind of setup. Should I still run the Room EQ or any other dsp in AVR? Because it is nearly impossible to have flat response with only one sub (in case of center channel + high level sub) in room.
@StevenMcKenzie83
2 жыл бұрын
Will you be looking at doing this for your setup?
@joekool5676
Жыл бұрын
Shane to connect high level do you use RCAs from back of sub to back of the desired speaker
@therealshanelee
Жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/26CBl3VqoGKYiYY
@alfonzooliviera1121
2 жыл бұрын
Also spare change are the ML Balanced force still king?
@westensanchez9483
10 ай бұрын
Was the rel 1205 in the back only setup as .1?
@AudioClownHT
2 жыл бұрын
Are you going for REL 3D yourself sparechange?
@RedLeo-pf9yo
2 жыл бұрын
What about instead of putting the speaker behind you, putting a subwoofer in each of the four corners instead ?
@JohnSmith-qt4pv
Жыл бұрын
What is this obsession with sending high level inputs to subs? It's definitely a nice to have for compatibility and cost reasons and I wouldn't wish it away but you do know preamps usually have full range line level output channels you can use, right? Obviously you're not trying to save a buck in this system by using the high level outputs on your amplifier instead of buying a preamp that can output the same signal in multiple output channels (or even better yet, can do all the DSP and crossover too)
@MrGuss1963
2 жыл бұрын
Can you use that converter for 15 0 8 for the high level
@soopy1975
2 жыл бұрын
I think about trying my old rel T7i on the front. Do you just use speakon cable on centre channel? I'm scared to put it on my preamp
@totalplonker824
Жыл бұрын
You should drop an email to Rel acoustics, I'm sure they'll be happy to advise! "Nothing ventured nothing gained" or should that be... "he who dares wins"
@AeroDude73
2 жыл бұрын
The alien was Driving the bus? 🤔🤨🤷♂️🙄🤦♂️🤣😂
@lionelh152
10 күн бұрын
sub track is one track ( LFE Track a,d not stéréo sub track ) . Even if you you have 2 or many sub you ll listen same track !! Does sub frequency exist in each track on the 5 of 5.1 multitrack film ( DVD , netflix ..BLuray ?) regard's
@Kirby-Andersen
2 жыл бұрын
Can you combine this concept with Dirac?
@JohnSmith-qt4pv
Жыл бұрын
No, Dirac will only work with one sub channel and treat all the subs as one. Dirac is actually very limited in what it can do, its only advantage is that its an easy solution for non technical people. You can do everything Dirac can do plus a lot more with just REW and rePhase.
@alfonzooliviera1121
2 жыл бұрын
Soo my bass managed subs playing 80hz and below are not as good as a dedicated sub making the speaker full range? I hear the same content, just out of my current sub and not as much speaker
@whitecrowuk575
2 жыл бұрын
I believe it’s clearer sound - since you have dedicated subwoofer for channel vs single sub with all sub 80 channels mixed with LFE. You can see how. From what I can gather, haven’t tried yet myself, center channel is one which most people notice - and it’s understandable why - majority of action is in the center. Rest I wouldn’t bother tbh and connect via lfe.
@samidebs3559
Жыл бұрын
Hi Shane can I use the HT1510 with the 1508 In medium size room 7.1.4 system?
@therealshanelee
Жыл бұрын
Sure you could.
@samidebs3559
Жыл бұрын
@@therealshanelee do you prefer the 1510 in the back corner or the 1508?
@jehickm
2 жыл бұрын
Do you know if the Airship works with the 1508 for hi level and LFE?
@therealshanelee
2 жыл бұрын
Yes it does.
@jehickm
2 жыл бұрын
Wow I had no idea I could get hi level to my 1508 sub with this . Keys to the kingdom ! Thanks so much! I appreciate your content
@berj79
Жыл бұрын
@shane So the 1510 can be connected to Low level with crossover adjustments & also be used for LFE too?
@Halkerik
Жыл бұрын
получается что саб REL HT/1003 лучше по герцам чем REL T/9X, у первого минимально 24гц. у второго 27гц. Что скажете!?
@totalplonker824
Жыл бұрын
Obviously the HT 1003 is a dedicated home theatre sub and the 9X with its high level is not just a HT sub, its also a musical as well! So it makes perfect sense that the latter is not going to go lower. Music is all about agility and speed, where HT is more about slam bang!
@Halkerik
Жыл бұрын
@@totalplonker824 HT/1205 делали тесты и доказали,что он хорошо и с музыкой дружит и с фильмами.
@wezzman1
2 жыл бұрын
Not gonna knock it cause I haven't tried it and probably never will, we don't have the space needed for all them subs in the UK. Would love to try it though to see if it works. I fare it may be dangerous for some ppl with smaller speakers running them full range.
@Vitone22
Жыл бұрын
Imagine spending all this money to watch a $10 movie! 😆
@matta9316
2 жыл бұрын
Cool idea - not wife friendly tho!
@nimotech8008
2 жыл бұрын
I realized that these videos are quite dangerous :). I got so many plans for my hometheater...now I really wanna do this. Stop these videos, show me only soundbars in livingrooms! Or even better...Just a cheap TV!
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