I learned more from you staying on film and not editing out the little moments of quirky things that happen when you put together such details like this. Thank you.
@kevwells
5 жыл бұрын
Great work in keeping everyone to a standard, and the honesty of calling companies out. Keep them on their toes mate, so they improve the product and firmware. Every product needs a LAMA tick of approval on it ;).
@modarm
5 жыл бұрын
Great information and your comments are 100% correct. The closest we have to an industry standard iwith power measuring type equipment seems to only be the brilliant work you and DCR who test these products and give an honest and unbiased opinion.
@kirkbeatty6845
5 жыл бұрын
Very well done, nice work GP. Your attention to the details & holding vendors accountable to the products they are selling is greatly appreciated. I am a regular watcher of your vids & I use your data & opinions when considering purchases. Thank you so much for your professionalism as well. Thank you!
@benb1071
5 жыл бұрын
Such great insight! Love the explanation of accuracy vs consistency. Bought my Faverr Assioma UNOs and Tacx Neo based off your in-depth reviews and test. Thanks for putting these out for all of us.
@tomk163
5 жыл бұрын
Your analogy on building a house with a measuring tape measuring 10% too long pretty much sums up what happened with the Opal Tower disaster in sydney.
@szabiakanich
5 жыл бұрын
Amazing video, Shane. Great to see how you collect data and then subsequently analyse it. Also VERY valid points at the end as to why power meter accuracy matters. Good stuff.
@iananderson6496
5 жыл бұрын
I can't think of a more useful topic for a video! Well, except for the other few hundred videos in the LamaLog
@robertchung4914
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks. There are other ways to compare and to assess accuracy and response but this is a nice video and the explanations are very clear.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Robert. It’s not perfect, but with what I have available it usually produces the results I’m looking for. Always happy to hear improvements to keep stepping up my game.
@tomhowlin4548
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Shane! Just bought some Favero dual sided pedals after various videos of yours. Deciding point over the P1s is the favero sending left and right over bluetooth and the p1s sending left only. Only knew that was a thing after one of your videos.
@mattcostall5321
5 жыл бұрын
Excellent tutorial, wish i'd waited a day before I commented on Neo accuracy. I will certainly be running this test on my Neo and 2inPower to ensure my calibration is accurate. Another thing I took from this is I wasn't aware I could set up custom workouts within Zwift. I will now sign-up for Zwift and be able to use the Erg torture mode in my interval sessions, loving your work-brilliant
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Let me know how that goes. Both Ray and I found the 2INPower read a little high indoors, but was fine outside.
@exerscreen2525
Жыл бұрын
Thanks again, saved me a bunch of time!
@gplama
Жыл бұрын
Wowa! Thank you! 🙏🏼
@gregoxenham2842
5 жыл бұрын
Well done Lama. Reliable independent data you can use with confidence when buying a power meter. Which I willbe doing following this review.
@tuxkilla615
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! I was always curious how you compared the power meters.
@littledevilchris666
5 жыл бұрын
I'm impressed my stages is pretty much bang on with my kickr, and I got the stages before I started following you
@samuel8590
5 жыл бұрын
Legit ass video. Keep those manufacturers honest! Power meters MUST be accurate.
@pmb0001
5 жыл бұрын
Another timely video I was just about to read up on PM calibration - your video helped greatly
@savegan4005
5 жыл бұрын
this video...... a tech's wet dream come true .
@aljones27uk
5 жыл бұрын
Interesting (especially for someone considering the Assiomas). Thanks for doing!
@patrickbuckley8157
5 жыл бұрын
Always look forward to your videos. Loved this one, very interesting, love your new bike.
@wubble666
5 жыл бұрын
Quite interesting and have done something similar with my three Power2Max (one classic and 2 S models) to see how they compare. I rode them all on my Elite Turbo Muin Real Power (which I am sure reads high, but it was reliable for a consistent comparison). All three came out within 1-2 watts of each other based on doing steady state efforts in Erg mode of 5m at 320w, 10m at 300w and 20m at 250w based upon the turbo as a constant. It was an interesting weekend.
@paulb4885
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Shane. Another great video. I think you missed the Favero Assiomas off your ever expanding list of PMs used.
@teriemer
5 жыл бұрын
Love the video adnd very valid points. About time someone started talking about it.....
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Cheers. It’s a topic that is raised often by a lot of people. I’m just putting it front and centre again. 👍🏼
@richardvdooren4143
5 жыл бұрын
Great video Shane. I also use the DC rainmaker tool The Stages and wahoo kick 2018 always deviate +/- 15 watts Recently i bought the quarq, this is much more accurate powermeter, that I use during a swift races.
@danjo1967
5 жыл бұрын
calling it swift; already i know you are dodgey
@richardvdooren4143
5 жыл бұрын
@@danjo1967 sorry Zwift
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Haha! My autocorrect does the same.
@mister_ray
5 жыл бұрын
This is a great video on why Zwift ranking or race results can never be taken very seriously. Make all the lame Zwiftpower.com websites you like. It won’t fix power reporting discrepancy.
@philadams9254
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video, I will try this myself because I suspect my trainer is slightly out.
@darinsteele7091
5 жыл бұрын
I agree, people pay good money for these and pro's need the correct data. I'd really like to have one but I don't compete...but still want one to see numbers because to me that would motivate me.
@michaelsutter341
5 жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work! Thank you!
@WowRixter
5 жыл бұрын
Tacx Neo 2 is matches your nice new bike
@batbawls
5 жыл бұрын
Looks like an episode of Pimp My Pain Cave. I'm a little jealous :(
@waynosfotos
5 жыл бұрын
Great work Shane, this stuff takes a sh!tload of time to do. Cheers
@vincentdufour9487
5 жыл бұрын
I think the data you have sent to Giant may have helped them. My power pro is prettry close to the power recorded by my Tacx neo 1.
@dinozunic
5 жыл бұрын
That's good to hear Vincent, this had be a bit concerned.
@carlosflanders518
5 жыл бұрын
Useful video. Thanks.
@rgjdk
5 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the review on the ZWatt Zpider. I have one, which is actually my third. Since that the first two broke due to water ingress. It's reading a bit higher than my Tacx Neo, but haven't had the opportunity to test it against a third source yet. Have had a bit of firmware issues, but they've been resolved.
@arturnaumiuk8135
5 жыл бұрын
Shane, very deep study on your unit. Here it is my take on it. I own second generation of the left side only. I have also noticed that my unit shows lower values than reading out of my Tacx Genius. Does it bother me? A little. Does it disqualify the unit? Not really. I believe that we should use power meter as a reference tool. If I test my FTP with that unit and then I am using reading during the ride in reference to it, I find it consistent and therefore it does not bother me because I can still ride to my reference number. Do I want to compare to my fellow riders power readings? As a competitive male for sure, but does it really matter? No. Regarding the misreading between left and right side I think (my theory) that it could be coming from different placement of tensiomètres on the left and right crank arms and that manufacturer did not spend too much time on firmware to provide compensation for it. Should we as consumers expect better job for over $1200 prise tag? IMO we should. But from the global perspective will that discrepancy change the way we ride or make this unit useless? Well, perhaps it proves the point that we should not spend extra money for dual sided unit? Well thanks to your test and my conclusion of it I will not be upgrading. For these people who want to know how much better is their right leg versus left you should go for the pedal power meter as it is much easier to accomplish balanced set due to the symmetry. It would be interesting to see how does it 4iiii between left and right side meters as there is similar tensiomètres placement on the crankshafts as Stages. Just from science perspective... Again IMO it changes nothing for the rider.
@aacycles
5 жыл бұрын
you should test the raceface/easton power meter spindle
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
If I can get a hold of one, and a bike compatible with that BB, sure. Not on the radar though.
@brianjuhl4126
5 жыл бұрын
Great video 👍
@NikeDnT
5 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Apologies for it being so long.... but I didn't want to cut anything out and miss things.
@1975lap
5 жыл бұрын
I have heard you say it many times of how reliable and how much your trust your pedals. I'd don't doubt you, but at the same time, how do you know they are reliable? Are they or have they been bench tested? How do you know over time they have not become out of wack somehow?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
10,000s of kms on them. No major data issues. No bench tests (that’s not relevant to be honest, humans aren’t machines). And they are compared to other power sources new and old on a regular basis.
@hommuside
5 жыл бұрын
This shit is science. Bro, test the P2Max NGeco please.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
If I can get a hold of one I will. Their distribution model makes it difficult. I'll try reach out to them again.
@antonyneeson7956
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Thanks Shane. Seriously love your work.
@grantbelton1288
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you Shane for all your videos, always interesting to see your tests and opinions on power meters and other cycling tech. Which crank PM would you say is better, the Pioneer or the Stages? Or would it be better to go for a pedal PM
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I'm not a fan of either based on what I've seen to date... this may change. Pedals seem to perform well. But you may have to switch cleats to the Look compatible ones.
@stephencowman3142
5 жыл бұрын
Gday Shane , do you think there will ever be a pedal based power meter for mtb pedals? Great work as always !!! Its snowing here you blood crim
@1984rbarker
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane, In the absence of 3 Garmin units, can you suggest a good app for recording power data? I have a Tacx neo, assioma duos (for power match and outdoor road rides) and a quarq dzero on my gravel bike. I would like to compare all three indoors. I have a Garmin edge 830 and a fenix 6 pro. As you can see I'm short of one device to record power. Can I use the fit file from Zwift linked to one of the power sources? Maybe the trainer road app?
@yapmadur
5 жыл бұрын
Finally some glimpse on giant pm, looks nice ?
@Peter_Stiff
5 жыл бұрын
Yet more great content, thank you so much. What would be a reasonable percentage roughly to add on for drive train loss?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
The measured ranges are 2-7% iirc.
@stevenchua9668
3 жыл бұрын
Hi it seems like 2 years late for me :). thanks for the informative video. For power meter + dummy trainer = should we expect huge variances with similar effort. is that possible to test?
@gplama
3 жыл бұрын
Power meter vs power estimator......It'll rarely be the same. If power is important then you'll need a power meter or a trusted smart trainer.
@kanefsky
5 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the NEO really had the dropouts or if it's because the distance and the line-of-sight between the NEO and the head unit is worse. Since you were using the NEO as the power source for Zwift and you had better placement of the ANT+ antenna for Zwift it would be interesting to compare the Zwift data with the Garmin data for the NEO in the DCR tool.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Cool. ok, no drop in the 10min 200W from the Zwift data. So it was likely the Edge. Interesting.... but the drop to 0 after the 4th 20 second interval was there in the Zwift data too. Hmm. I'll need to place the Edge paired to the trainer closer to the trainer form now on. Damn it. This is getting more complex by the hour! ;)
@b_dinca
2 жыл бұрын
Hello everyone, is there a free/cheaper alternative to DCR Analyzer?
@gordanbutina7401
5 жыл бұрын
happy days :)
@tomouisdeadify
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this video. I have giant power pro on new propel and quarq on the TCR, have done 4x3hour ride on the same routes comparing power differences,2 rides with quarq and 2 rides with power pro,and it shows 20watts higher in NP with power pro,the difference is large that doesn’t match the feeling on riding...Its not a accurate test though, Still can’t really trust numbers put out by Power pro.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Cheers. That's another data point for the Power Pro. It's not obnoxiously off. And I'm sure someone will defend it being 'closer to the rider' and more correct than further down the drivetrain (etc). I try not to make excuses for meters, I try to understand them. And the PowerPro and I have an understanding... that it reads a little high. :)
@davidyoung-nb2pu
5 жыл бұрын
What are you like. Poor Von might not get a free top of the range all singing all dancing giant bike now. Lol great video by the way
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I paid for my new bike. Why would she get one for free?
@davidyoung-nb2pu
5 жыл бұрын
🙀
@Fro_Low
5 жыл бұрын
Great video. I have the Favero pedals as well and feel they are bullet proof. Have you noticed the lights continuing to flash on one of the pedals hours after you finish a ride? I can’t seem to find anything online about it.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
They should go to sleep soon after a ride. Check the firmware for updates. Maybe ping Favero Support.
@Fro_Low
5 жыл бұрын
I have done that. It is set for 5 min. Firmware is up to date. I sent Favero a support ticket. Hopefully they have an answer.
@Fro_Low
5 жыл бұрын
Update: Favero got back to me and sent me a new Firmware version. This seems to have fixed the issue. Going to give it a few rides and then let them know the results. Great service I have to say.
@otr2096
5 жыл бұрын
It's good to get a feel for the accuracy of competitive products. For the sport to be legitimised testing processes need to be legitimised and owned by an impartial body.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
There’s no commercial incentive to do this. This is why nobody has done it.
@otr2096
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama I am not sure I agree with that. That might have been the case two years ago, but there is heaps of commercial incentive now. Governing bodies are ran as a commercial enterprise. Members, suppliers and event organisers pay for the privilege of the accreditation or support. Esports is perfect for this model, it's much more controllable than some 'real world' new formats such as Enduro. It's also incredibly accessible and as such is already being adopted by national federations such as British Cycling. These competitions and initiatives are almost at the highest level within the existing framework, it cannot go unsanctioned; It wont be long...
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
@@otr2096 What would the business model be? Companies won't want their power meters compared and data published if the results are not in their favor. Zwift could do it... given thier move into Esports... but they also risk off-siding power meter companies or would be vulnerable to law suits and litigation if they're not careful. When there's no income/revenue, and there's risk... it won't be touched.
@otr2096
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama I think you are proof that most companies are confident in their own products and are happy to have impartial testing results released? Right now, you and Ray are the authority on accuracy and user experience. I don't think it's likely Esports will be unique in its governance model and those brands involved with it will need to engage with the process and pay for the privilege. Event organisers, partners, sponsors and apps will support the accreditation process by way of financial contribution. It's a sport like any other, a working example might look like: Zwift host an event with teams and event sponsors, using local roads etc. - Zwift will pay for the support - Support from sponsors and partners will be skimmed and paid forwards - Teams will pay for licensing - Riders will pay for licensing - Product manufacturers will pay for the accreditation - Venues will contribute for the privilege of hosting the events (Stadiums etc.) - The virtual venues, EG. Yorkshire. Will pay to be included in the event (similar to the Real World) Philanthropy and partnerships contribute to the UCI and most national federations have major partnerships in place already that help with their financial situation. It would make sense for these guys to own this, not only because it's financially viable but because the have experience and resources and are 'theoretically' beyond corruption. It also presents a risk to their brands if 'someone' else does it. That's my ten pence. I would love to hear what you think in a video about how the Esports moves forwards from here.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
@@otr2096 RE: Data. Companies don't have any say in the data/testing information released once a product is on the shelf and on the market.
@haddymcbatty
5 жыл бұрын
Great video Shane. Why does the NEO not need calibration and say, the Kickr need calibration? Curious of the working behind it.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
No belt, nothing to heat up/stretch, no additional pulley wheels internally. Not all bad things to have, the Kirckr works great. It just needs a spindown every so often to make sure things are reading optimally.
@C22RLD
4 жыл бұрын
If I only have one Garmin head unit device can the raw zwift file be used for the Neo2t data and then my Garmin for my quarq d-four or dzero data? Thanks for the tips 👍
@gplama
4 жыл бұрын
Yes, but Zwift will only record total power - not L/R. Not an issue given the Neo and Quarq aren't true L/R power meters.
@Life_Is_Gotong
5 жыл бұрын
respect
@threeshirescyclist554
5 жыл бұрын
great video thanks DCRainmaker.....*cough* I mean Shane :). Soon as my TCR arrives in shiny blue, I can start my own tests too. I will be sure to message you results if you want to know 4iii vs power pro.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Please....Respect. I’m doing my own thing here. Ray does his. We get along awesomely. Don’t piss on the carpet.
@bunnyadrian
5 жыл бұрын
ADSR! Are you a synth nerd too?
@guglielmocornini4004
3 жыл бұрын
First of all, good guide and nice work Shane. But i have a doubt: How i can compare two Dual Sided pedals (Like Favero assioma Duo vs Garmin Vector)? Should i compare them with an indoor trainer (like Elite Direto X)? Thanks you
@gplama
3 жыл бұрын
You'll need to compare them to a common baseline such as the Direto X or other trainer over multiple rides.
@guglielmocornini4004
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for reply. In my test, i've found that Assioma vs Direto X are pretty much similar with an error from -1,34% to +3,86%(higher in 1 sec CP).(zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=58009) Garmin Vector 2 vs Direto X In this test there is much more error, from +4,45% to +8.52%. zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=58010 maybe my vector 2 is faulty. @@gplama
@dinozunic
5 жыл бұрын
Shane great that you are taking the time for us all to do these tests. I recently purchased the new Giant Propel SL1 that has the power pro and I was curious if you heard anything back from Giant in regards to the readings you found? Just to confirm something as well, you are gauging all the PM's with the Neo correct? If so how do we know that the neo itself is gauged properly? I only bring this up because your testing is very precise, yet there is no actual calibration gauge itself that all can be based on? Your input is appreciated! DZ.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I'm waiting for the next firmware revision for the PowerPro before re-testing the data. I'm not that impressed with the current state of things. I've been told two/three weeks. The Neo is a good baseline for power. It tests well against other known/trusted power meters. It also tests well against power meters that I have calibrated myself with static weight tests. Static calibration isn't the 'be all and end all', but it's another independent data point to compare the Neo to. So in a way this is the calibration 'gauge' I rely on the numbers from.
@dinozunic
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Hey Shane! Just checking in to see if you heard from Giant on a firmware update yet for the powerpro?? It's been like an un-scratchable itch in my head waiting to hear what they have to say! Thanks in advance.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
@@dinozunic The power meter has been on the shelf here waiting for confirmation of new firmware.
@dinozunic
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Just did the latest Firmware update, incase they didn't let you know yet ;)
@indonesiaamerica7050
5 жыл бұрын
Did you ever verify the difference in stack height claims? Do you change saddle height when you swap between Vector 3 and Assioma? I just ordered a pair of Assioma as a backup for my V3 pedals and I'm still dialing in my saddle height on a new Tarmac. AFAIK, Vector 3 is supposed to be 11.5mm and Assioma claims 10.5mm.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I believe I've checked them in each video. I didn't factor in cleat height though - more difficult to measure.
@jpprovost64
5 жыл бұрын
Neo the best !!
@robbanbuz3147
5 жыл бұрын
Please test power2max which also claims to bee very accurate
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
If I can get my hands on one, I can. It's not likely. They're rare around these parts.... and Eurobike parts....
@richardcolla3422
5 жыл бұрын
Nice video Shane. I feel lucky that I have the same bike. I haven't done any kind of in depth comparison, but my power meter seems to be close to the Quarq that I have on my Cannondale. I have a couple of questions though. How do you like the SLR wheels that came with the TCR? and how did you unlock the Giant kit on Zwift? Thanks for all the great information!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
The wheels have been fine. No issues to date. I haven't tinkered with them much..... that's happening shortly when I put on the GP5000 tubeless. Giant kit is the AHDR kit that's awarded if you finish the weekly AHDR event on Zwift.
@richardcolla3422
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Thanks for the quick reply. My wheels have been fine also, but I've heard others say they thought the wheels were sluggish. I will be putting GP5000 (28 ml) on when my stock tires wear out or maybe before that if I get the urge to change. BTW. I flipped my stem from -8 degrees to +8 degrees and like that change. I was getting hand numbness with the more slammed angle. Cheers!
@marksmithWLC
5 жыл бұрын
Great tutorial Shane! I’d like to compare my Tacx Bushido to my 3iii (left crank only) pm. Can I do this with a single (Garmin 810) head unit by pairing to this and either Zwift or the Strava app? If so how do I access the fit file? Cheers Mark
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Zwift will save FIT file in /documents/zwift/activities that you can use
@skylab1111
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane, thanks for this video, you doing a great job. I have a question about comparative test Infocrank vs Power Tap G3 hub. I have both power meters, when I doing the the test Infocrank vs Power Tap G3, always show about 5 to 8 W more than G3 hub. Of course it is normal due to transmission losses. But when I mount oval chainrings on Infocrank this difference is almost double. I have written a letter to Verve support, and their explanation that Infocrank has higer samples (at 256 Hz from each crank) than G3 hub, that is, it means can to decect every power peak. In other words, the G3 is not optimized for oval chainrings. What is your opinion on this? Does the explanation of the Verve make sense? Thanks
@gplama
4 жыл бұрын
I have no hands-on with any Verve power meter, so can't really comment on anything I've seen here in the Lama Lab. I'd be getting a set of Assioma DUO or something as a third power source and going from there.
@rein2523
5 жыл бұрын
I’ve always wondered what the diffrence is between the Tacx power as source and the FE-C as power source. FE-C data all goes trough the same channel?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I’ll ping Tacx. I’ll take a guess that one is ANT Private and the other open/FE-C. (I could be well off the mark though)
@StrategyPerformance
5 жыл бұрын
Hi, Brilliant thanks. I have a consistent problem (difference) between my V3 pedals and my Kickr core. The Kickr core always seems to under read by 20-25W across the board, no matter what power. I am recording my Core on a wahoo elemnt and my V3s on a Garmin 920 watch. In TrainerRoad in powermatch (the vector3 (dual) pedals being the controlling power) I see a consistent difference on teh two head units. (TR displays the V3 figure). So 1) Am I safe looking at these two sets of data on two different brands of display? 2) Should I do a V3 static test to check that it is consistent (especially L/R)? 3) Assuming the figures are reading and collecting correctly, any thoughts on why the Kickr core is reading low (or different) - or the V3s reading high?. All are on the latest firmware. All over ANT+ For all the reasons you say, I would really like these to be consistent. Many thanks for all th stuff - brilliant, thanks
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
1) It should be ok. I try to eliminate that variable. I'm also on the beta fw track for other head units that I can't really use/trust for data collection. 2) Yes. 3) See results of 2) first. And go from there. There's a lot of variables.
@markp353
5 жыл бұрын
Shane, if you only have one bike and have no need to swap power meters between bikes. What system would you suggest. Eg pedal system, crank etc. I don't race, just wanting to become stronger on the bike and train more effectively. Also, if you are not a serious racer, is single sided sufficient to help you improve? Thanks for your input.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
There's no real argument for or against either, or left, or dual.... I'm sure people will come up with reasons why this or that is better. At the end of the day it's your call with what's best for you. I'm a shitty salesman too. :)
@mathiaswahl7109
5 жыл бұрын
Favero Assioma vs Garmin Vector 3. I have a hard time choosing between them. Are the Favero more durable in your experience? Thanks 😊
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Assioma are cheaper. V3 have cycling dynamics which we’re still waiting on from Favero.
@edwardjonese
5 жыл бұрын
Is it possible to use the zwift fit file to measure the power from my neo tacx agaisnt my assimoas pedals? Will be using Garmin edge to measure the pedals?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Yes
@chriskennedy1076
5 жыл бұрын
Shane- is there a public version of your lama lab test one can ride in Zwift? Or could you recommend a workout that is similar? Thx.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Not yet. It'd be easy to re-create it with the details shown here in the meantime.
@cleggycyclist
5 жыл бұрын
Have you ever compared stages left side only against either of the left side only favero pedals? (assioma or bepro)
Hi Shane, I’ve just brought a neo 2 and noticed that it was consistently 10-15w higher than my stages L p/m. I purchased some PowerTap p2 pedals L/R but they also show around 10-15w lower. Espically in erg mode. I’ve returned the p2’s as I did not like the cleats anyway and have got a quarq on order now waiting to see how close that matches the neo! What are the chances that the neo is out of calibration or the power meters?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
The two Neo 1 units and one Neo 2 I've had have been pretty good for power. That's about the best answer I have.
@brennendw
5 жыл бұрын
Shane Miller - GPLama thanks for the reply! Yeah well that’s what I thought, not seen any post complaining about high readings either! Will wait and see what the quarq reads
@triathlonsteve9675
5 жыл бұрын
My tacx trainer is constant for power over my stages G2 powermeter , which shows 10-20 Watts lower, but when out on road stages powermeter seems to be more accurate ? 🤔
@TomasHedlund16
5 жыл бұрын
Hello there, i have a question. I wonder which one you would recommend between Garmin Vector 3 or the Favero Assioma Duo power meters? Tomas from Sweden
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Your call.
@markp353
5 жыл бұрын
Shane, I have trouble connecting my Wahoo Tickr to Zwift. Have Wahoo Bolt, KickR18 trainer, Wahoo Speed and Cadence. Everything else syncs except the HRM. Can you offer some trouble shooting suggestions please. By the way I am using Zwift on a Windows PC.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
One for Zwift Support.
@8rk
5 жыл бұрын
Is Quarq S-works spider different than regular D-Zero ones that come with Sram Red cranks? In any case I also found Quarq dzero to be the most reliable unit out of the small bunch I've owned over the years. Garmin V2, Stages Gen II, Quarq D-Zero, Stages Gen III, Favero Assioma Duo, back to Quarq D-Zero. Stages III was very frustrating. It read a huge chunk higher outside than anything I've used and considerably lower on the trainer even if I calibrate after 10 mins of warm up.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
The DZero are much newer units.
@woolfel
5 жыл бұрын
The real downside of recording multiple power meters with multiple head units is cost. Many people don't have multiple head units and then you still have to line up the datapoints. One big limitation of Garmin's TCX and FIT formats is it doesn't support multiple power meters. To get around this stupid design limitation, I wrote my own iOS app that will read multiple power meters in 1 app and display the results. I also extended the TCX format so that I can record the data in 1 file. You can find the free app on appstore or the Swift code up on github for those that program. github.com/woolfel/wattdr
@markrees6792
4 жыл бұрын
When you record the power data from the power meter to the garmin head unit is it just power you record? Obviously your not recording speed and distance etc as the Neo is only paired to one head unit. So the other garmin just show power and nothing else when your cycling is that correct?
@gplama
4 жыл бұрын
Power, cadence, HR.
@markrees6792
4 жыл бұрын
@@gplama thanks Shane
@christopherhall5662
5 жыл бұрын
Shane, do you have any experience of the BKool Pro Smart Trainer. I'm seeing some large power differences from each of my powertap hubs when recorded along side the trainer.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
None sorry. They're rare units here in Australia and BKool have been very light-on with their interactions with me to date.
@72starbuck
5 жыл бұрын
I have giant power meter on my propel advanced sl 1 ,do you think they can fix it with a software update ?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I’ve only tested one unit. This may not be representative of them all. Stay tuned.
@cbyod
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I recently bought garmin vector 3 dual sided on ebay for a 6800 ultegra bcd 110 crankset. I run quarq dzero bcd 130 on everything but bought these for a hillclimb/ spare bike/turbo trainer bike with compact qrings. decided to test them with the quarq powermeter and calibrated both powermeters. Did a 25km loop and had avg. lap power on both garmin edge (820 & 800) screens. the vector 3 reads 4-6 watts lower than the quarq but max. power reads 5 watts higher. the avg. lap power difference does not increase above 4-6 watts. Would you say these are ok to train on? as the vectors are going to be used on the turbo. And I use the Quarq bike for the endurance sh1t at the weekend. Thanks Shane.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Sounds like that's within the -+% of accuracy... it really depends on the data.
@cbyod
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama cheers.
@lucaswenger1853
5 жыл бұрын
Hi, Shane. Thanks for the videos! I'm training for my 1st full IM in June, & I have a Powertap SL+ hub on my race/tri bike. I just bought a take-off Giant Power Pro for my road bike, which I'll be using once it warms up outside (low -9º C here in St. Louis, MO USA today). Do you think I should just ignore the data from the Giant PM or is it semi-accurate to approximate it as ~4% high and discount it as such for comparing training efforts? With only two power meters there's no real way for me to determine accuracy for either, and the Powertap wheel will only work on my tri bike. Thanks!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
More data needed. I wouldn’t assume yours is 4% out until I’ve seen the data.
@lucaswenger1853
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Thanks!!! No $ for another PM, so I guess I won't compare data across bikes. I'll pick one for FTP tests/% FTP workouts (akin to your measuring tape/house analogy). Maybe try to get an estimate of the comp replicating an indoor workout, but take it with a grain of salt. Love the videos & appreciate the reply 👍👍👍
@Jarek.
5 жыл бұрын
Just bough Assioma Duo and comparing results with Tacx Neo. To my surprise, there is big, 10W difference (Neo is reporting less). To workaround, I set in Assioma Scale Factor -3.6% In theory results now are in line but somehow don't feel good with that... Any thoughts? PS: I've ran zero calibration many times but no visible change.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Lots of thoughts. 10W at 400W isn't a lot. 10W at 120W is. And a lot more details needed. What was the protocol? SIM mode? ERG mode? Was the difference the same across different watts? Was ERG mode using a flywheel speed >40km/h? What gearing were you using? New chain/rings/cassette? Lots of questions. The more information you get the better position you'll be in to know where the losses are occurring.
@Jarek.
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Hi Shane, thanks for responding. And you're right, the initial info was not too precise. It was 10W in appr 160W. ERG mode all the time. The gap (in terms of absolute W was growing with the load). Typically, I'm on 34/28 gearing but for sake of tests I was changing it - no significant difference. I've just installed a new chain and cassette. Eventually I've noticed a big difference in Balance figure (one of Garmin fields reporting L to R ratio in %). That was interesting as constantly reporting a diff 60-40% or worse (i.e. more on the Left). So that lead to more test - decoupled DUO and made it UNO (there is such option in the app). Interestingly - the Right pedal (alone) was reporting almost ideally as the Neo (giving very good results, same as in your tests). When getting figures from the Left (only) - it was much over the Neo. My conclusion - the Left pedal is somehow faulty (wrong factory calibration?). Worked it around by setting Scale Factor to the Left as massive 7%. Now (after converting back to Duo setup) - results are very much in line with Neo. I've sent a note to Favero's Support, awaiting their feedback. Best regards, Jarek
@andrehubert8873
5 жыл бұрын
Hello I buy a last tacx neo 2 and I find the cadence sensor is very very Not reactive ... I was wondering if you had the same impression as me ?!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
You'll need to contact Tacx. The cadence from the Neo 2 is fine for me (and when compared to other cadence sensors)
@andrehubert8873
5 жыл бұрын
Shane Miller - GPLama Thanks for your feedback
@mikicastan
5 жыл бұрын
I have quarq d-zero and recently i bought quarq xx1. What i have noticed that i can hold at least 10-12% more power on my mtb(xx1)then the road bike(d-zero). So,i put my mtb on my elite kura(which is more-less in line with my d-zero in power numbers)and it confirms my predictions about 15% overreadings comparing to elite kura and d-zero. Guy from quarq customer service tell me that is normal and that i can adjust slope to make it in line with those two PM-s but that real numbers are on factory slope! Any toughts,experience?!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Find the one that’s correct and go from there. Sounds like they’ve passed it off lightly.
@mikicastan
5 жыл бұрын
Shane Miller - GPLama Elite kura and my quarq dzero was always in line(5-7 watts),so,i’m guesing that is true data. I adjust the slope to those 2 readings. What does adjusting slope do?
@speedbull69
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane and thanks for the great job that you are doing for our favorite thing, cycling! I have a question. Can you suggest me a reliable power meter for my s-woks tarmac sl6 with dura 9100? I have vector 3 but I want to throw them in the river! Thanks!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I've had Quarq S-Works spider power meters on both my S-Works bikes. They always performed well. Not a suggestion though. Just my experience. There's a few reliable power options out there.
@speedbull69
5 жыл бұрын
Shane Miller - GPLama thanks for your reply. Can the spider be used with my current dura ace Crankset?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
No.
@speedbull69
5 жыл бұрын
Shane Miller - GPLama thanks
@YakovD71
5 жыл бұрын
Shane, Can you point me to the correct pedal based PM calibration procedure? Are the crank arms supposed to be 0 or 90 degrees positioned? In my Vector-3, after calibration successfully announced, the torque number is still playing... Thanks,
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Static zero calibration is independent of the crank position for the Vector 3. Make sure you have the latest firmware too, and switch on auto-zero. That'll calibrate or 're-zero' to be more correct the pedals when the bike is stationary (and you're unclipped). And again before going to power save mode.
@YakovD71
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate!
@cbyod
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama do you turn autozero off after calibration or keep it on forever?
@brettdyson3286
5 жыл бұрын
Has giant got back to you or done any firmware udpates
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Yes. I'll revisit the PowerPro again with the release of their next firmware. For now it's off the bike.
@markrees6792
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane. Just bought my first power meter (assioma uno pedals) and would love to use DC rainmakers tool to compare the readings against my tacx Neo. The question I have is can you compare a garmin fit file against a zwift activity file? I only have 1 head unit (a garmin 1000) so was going to record the power from the pedals on that against my zwift ride on the neo. Is that possible? Or do I need 2 head units to uoload power files? Thanks
@gplama
4 жыл бұрын
Zwift will record a FIT file with enough detail for overall power comparison. It won't split out Left/Right data even with a dual sided power meter though.
@markrees6792
4 жыл бұрын
@@gplama That's great and all I need to know. Thanks alot for the reply it's much appreciated . Keep up the good work mate and merry Christmas to you and your family 👍🎄🎅👌
@jeskli11
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Shane, a fridend of mine has bought Garmin Vector 3 after having 4iiii Precision left crank arm powermeter (and Quarq before that). In one of the first rides he has noticed that 4iiii is showing about 40 W less than Vectors. He has kept the Vectors and now he's selling the 4iiii for pretty good price (5000 CZK = 309 AUD), so I'm concidering buying it, if it can become more accurate by doing calibration. Do you think that the 4iiii Precision is way out, or may it be just wrong calibration?
@MrBJPitt
5 жыл бұрын
What was the left side vector reading? Remember you are considering a one side only power meter, unless you pedal at 50/50 ALL the time, it's never going to be accurate.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
It’s too difficult to know without diving into the data after they’ve been tested using a similar method to what I’ve done here.
@allancruz4432
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Lama, home come the Inforcrank powermeter never got into your list
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I've never had access to one. At their price, and their popularity, they're not on my radar to purchase. I'd happily put one though the Lama Lab Test if I can get a hold of one out of my own interest. I hear good things.... from them via their marketing. Not as much as a whisper for anyone who uses one.
@allancruz4432
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama thanks. If they are that good, I wonder why we don't see much of them in the pro peleton.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Sponsorship costs the manufacturer a lot of money. However making a great product at a good price also leads to market success without the pros riding the product. Favero nailed this with the Assioma pedals.
Hi Shane What are your experience with the Neo 2 for power accuracy, mine seems to need a warm-up before caching up with my trusty P2Max powermeter? and of course Thanks for the great content you're producing. Lawnbiker
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
I haven’t experienced this warm up issue. The trainer is inside and at 20-25deg most of the time, so no extremes.
@lawnbiker4213
5 жыл бұрын
+Shane Miller - GPLama Thanks for answering a little more info, it also seems that when "just riding along" at low power ( under around 135 watt) the issue is more pronounced than with more power, and it will drift at times. Neo Bluetooth to Zwift, P2MaxS Ant+ to Garmin. Wifi to Apple Tv, could it be wifi interference?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
It's too difficult to diagnose this one without drilling you with questions about the setup and getting a lot more data. If you think there's an issue, get as much detail as you can over to Tacx, Zwift, etc... (companies who are staffed up to look into this for their customers)
@lawnbiker4213
5 жыл бұрын
+Shane Miller - GPLama Are in testing mode and it looks like it could be the Apple tv /Bluetooth that are having some issues, when I use the Tacx training app the power data from the Neo and the P2M are almost spot on. Thanks for your help I'll do some more testing "just riding along".
@lawnbiker4213
5 жыл бұрын
+LawnBiker It is the Apple tv that are messing thinks up, the Bluetooth is so unreliable even if it's close to the Neo, maybe it's the latest update from Zwift that's the problem did not notice any problems before that!!!!!
@atiroocky
5 жыл бұрын
Does power reading on smartrainer takes care of drivetrain efficiency ? I mean, are the data displayed from raw power or do they add a "drivetrain efficiency" % value ?. If not, that could explain difference between crank/pedal power (higher) vs smartrainer power (lower).
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Drivetrain efficiency is said to be -2% to -7%.. so it's almost impossible for them to build that in. Maybe Giant will say they're more accurate.... I don't know. There's a lot of excuses thrown around as to why power meters are never the same... but not a lot of real data behind it. When I see a pedal and crank on the same side read differently... I'm not comfortable with that.
@jamesvaughan7274
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama I think the question might be given 2%-7% in addition to trainer inaccuracy of say 1%-2% how does the neo match so closely? You mention that you use a clean drivetrain, straight chain line etc. so likely closer to the 2% - but that should still be observable. 300w +/- 5% (cumulative across two sensors) is a 30w range.
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Pedal power meters are 1.5-2%. The Neo
@atiroocky
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama , ok thanks for your answer Shane ;-) I said that because, I compared a one hour Zwift session between my P2Max (NGeco) and the Kickr Core. The average power of the Core was 1,5% higher than the P2M, whereas It should be the other way, because of the drivetrain loss. But I do not exclude a scenario where the P2M to be -2%, the Core +2% and a 2.5% drivetrain loss ! (Waxed chain ;-) )
@jamesvaughan7274
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama I agree it would be rare, but would be within the published specification. Few standards on how power meters are measured does allow 'flexibility' for manufacturers to choose the ones that look best (much like yaw angles in the aero world). The Neo at 300w could absorb 3w of drivetrain loss and still be within it's 1% accuracy limit. Without knowing how they arrived at their 1% claim - and knowing that the drivetrain is significant in that determination will always lead to questions around accuracy. As you said, they aren't perfect - and don't need to be, just consistently accurate within an acceptable margin. At 300w for example, 12w is the cumulative outside accuracy range for a Kickr and Stages (both 2%). Which is a decent amount of training gains.
@philadams9254
5 жыл бұрын
How come the HR data is not identical on all 3 files? Anything to do with the distance to the ANT+ receivers? Head unit imperfections? Other interference?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
It should be identical.... likely the recording interval start... or a missed data packet (or more).
@Dcrainmaker
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama Typically a Garmin Edge device left indoors will drift about 1-3 seconds per week. The Analyzer automatically aligns based on GPS timestamps, but if the unit itself has drifted, then the drift will be seen. I try and make a habit of bringing my Edge outdoors every other day or so (or just putting it in a window) to get GPS reception so that the units line up perfectly.
@dangurtler7177
5 жыл бұрын
@@Dcrainmaker Thanks for that information, I didn't realize that could happen. I record with my 520 indoors to get pedaling data from Assioma that otherwise isn't available from the software I am using for my Tacx Neo.
@kanefsky
5 жыл бұрын
If the head units aren't recording the data at the exact same instants in time then they might catch slightly different data from each other and won't be exactly the same even if you adjust the offsets. That's especially true if the HR monitor is broadcasting updates at a faster rate than the head units are recording it (although I think it would be a bigger issue with power or cadence which fluctuate more rapidly). If you made two digital audio recordings of the same analog song you wouldn't get identical files even with the exact same equipment :)
@davepratt9909
5 жыл бұрын
Please take this comment with all the love and respect that is implied. GEEK!
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
♥️😉
@philadams9254
5 жыл бұрын
22:18 What's up with the ascent value of 65535?
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
Good question. That's totally wonky. It's also a very special number 2^16.... the largest 16bit integer in decimal. I'd put it down to the FIT files from the 1030 being interpreted a little incorrectly by the DCR Analyser.
@Dcrainmaker
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama We'd have to take a look. Could be a bug in the Analyzer, or could be us displaying the reality of a bad .FIT file. One of the tenants of the Analyzer has always been to not guesstimate what a .FIT file is trying to say, and always display the raw data. Most platforms like Garmin Connect, Strava, etc... have caps that throw out bad data points automatically. Sorta to protect things on purpose. But for the Analyzer, we want to see those bad data points - as sometimes it's actually the sensor doing bad things (like huge power spikes).
@jamesvaughan7274
5 жыл бұрын
@@Dcrainmaker That's interesting as I saw the opposite today. A training session (R9100P to a Fenix 5S+) showed in Garmin Connect regular spikes of 50,000w. But when downloaded from there and imported into the DCR Analyser those spikes were gone. I'll have a look and see if I can pull the fit file from the device to compare.
@allent1277
5 жыл бұрын
where are the assiomas on your list? :O
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
They're in every video.... and I forgot them! haha!
@allent1277
5 жыл бұрын
@@gplama HAHA! I was looking at your list and can't find them, I'm planning to get one myself.. Is the p1 powertap pedals is still a good buy if discounted at 2019? or should I just go for the assioma's? THANKS GP
@gplama
5 жыл бұрын
@@allent1277 P1 if the price is well below the Assiomas. By a lot.
@chrisogrady28
4 жыл бұрын
In my experience the NEO is much more accurate than the kickrs. I swear those things over measure power by at least 10 watts
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