I'm struggling to repent of certain behaviors in my life right now because of how difficult it will be. When you said, "following Jesus is very hard, but following Jesus is totally worth it", I felt that. Even though it's an issue that is totally different than sexual sin, it was very applicable to me.
@dorismbila2928
3 сағат бұрын
This is so me. I’m in a terrible state where I know what to give up but still can’t. And this tools (sinful devices) don’t make me better yet I cling to them (like a dog to it’s vomit). Ngl, I’m almost numb to repentance, but I don’t want to be.
@nickhanley5407
3 сағат бұрын
“For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.” Romans 6:14 ESV The revelation that you are saved by Gods grace and not by your own works is a powerful revelation! Sin doesn’t have dominion over you. If sin tempts you take dominion over it. Focus on the things above and you will overcome!
@michaelkvalvik7358
Сағат бұрын
Thank you for this! I'm going to commit this verse to memory. @@nickhanley5407
@BipolarDistortion
4 сағат бұрын
"If we ever have this thought, 'can He really be that good?' The answer is yes and you're starting to get it." Amen & AMEN!
@matsumuratrp
4 сағат бұрын
Wow, such an encouraging closing note from Rebecca. As a currently single young adult I can greatly struggle with lust and desiring an intimate relationship with a woman. Being reminded that Christ is our ultimate fulfillment is a very uplifting word for me, and I greatly appreciate her words. A very good discussion! Thank you both for sitting down and reflecting on this.
@harrisonhamlin2813
5 сағат бұрын
Loved this conversation Dr. Ortlund. You have a great gift at making difficult topics simple.
@quarantinegames5502
7 сағат бұрын
Thank you so much Dr. Ortlund!
@davidlauer9379
3 сағат бұрын
Gavin, this is one of the best videos you have done, and that is really saying something! Rebecca is remarkable, and so is her book Confronting Christianity. This video was very encouraging to me as an opposite-attracted single man. Thanks to both of you!
@amduarte245
7 сағат бұрын
Thank you Dr. Ortlund!!!
@normbeers
3 сағат бұрын
This is a beautiful discussion blending incisive thinking, excellent articulation, love for others, and devotion to Christ. So impressive and encouraging. Thank you, and God bless you going forward.
@davidspalding1195
5 сағат бұрын
I was reading through Christianity and Liberalism this morning. In the introduction Gresham says “after the apologist has abandoned his outer defenses to the enemy and withdrawn into some inner citadel, he would probably discover that the enemy pursues him even there.” When the “Christian” concedes biblical doctrine there is no end to the pressure of concessions to the world, and consequently becomes an entirely different religion.
@z3rocodes
4 сағат бұрын
1 Timothy 3:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:15 It started when Christians conceded Tradition to their own Pride. The rest is downstream. There is an inherent flaw in Sola Scriptura that inevitably leads to prelest and ultimately damnation. The Enemy has prevailed against their churches, indicating these institutions lack the fullness of the faith and are not heirs to the Lord's promise that the gates of Hades will not prevail. At this rate, they will self destruct within 10 years.
@WaterCat5
4 сағат бұрын
@z3rocodes Except 1 Timothy isn't written by Paul, and 2 thessolonians is also up for debate. Pretty weird to base important doctrine on that.
@benjaminwatt2436
3 сағат бұрын
@@WaterCat5 That's a big claim, what makes you think 1 timothy was not written by paul or 2 thessolonians?
@tomasrocha6139
3 сағат бұрын
@@benjaminwatt2436 1 Tim advises widows to remarry which contradicts Paul's authentic letters. It quotes Luke as scripture, no one in Paul's day would have regarded a cobtenporary biography as scripture. The vocabulary used lines up with 2nd century Christians writers better than Paul, the travels aren't consistent with Paul's life as recorded in the authentic letters and Acts.
@Nolongeraslave
3 сағат бұрын
@@z3rocodes The thinking that a Church is an institution is erroneous but that thinking is so glued in the minds of Catholics that they cannot understand that the Church are the people who are born of God. Those will always be obedient to God. It's sort of ironic that a Catholic triumphantly comment on a video like this when the same filth is rampant in the Catholic Church ~ moreover in the leadership itself ~ especially in the "boys' club" aka Holy Order which is anything but. The secrecy there gives the illusion that all is cosy over there which is far from truth.
@gardengirlmary
2 сағат бұрын
Thank you for working so hard to expound upon the teachings in the word of God I've heard Rebecca on podcasts before, and she is an excellent speaker and writer. Rosaria Butterfield is also so full of understanding about the word of God in these topics. Great conversation!
@benjaminwatt2436
3 сағат бұрын
"throwing God under the bus" is a good way to put it for all the churches pushing liberal theology
@babinbowie2846
5 сағат бұрын
Watched all the way to the end. What a beautiful message. Thank you so much Gavin and Rebecca! Side note, this setup is awesome! I'm looking forward to more in-person dialogs on Truth Unites.
@kellyschroeder7437
5 сағат бұрын
Amen. Thank you for this conversation 💞💙🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻✝️🙌🏻
@MACHO_CHICO
5 сағат бұрын
I hope you do more videos on this and related topics such as gender dysphoria considering they’re desperately needed. I think Ed Shaw from the organisation Living Out would be a great person to interview on this topic.
@keeganmet257
37 минут бұрын
Enjoying this while I wait for my next class to start. Both of your voices are very calming.
@matthewmcmichael6416
6 сағат бұрын
Wow, this was outstanding! Thank you both for doing this.
@alexwr
5 сағат бұрын
Just the idea of God changing his mind already suggests that God does not see all of time at once. That in turn suggests that God is either only capable of experiencing time with us, or is simply not outside of time at all. Either way, you get a 'God' that is either not omnipotent or not omniscient. In other words, not God.
@Tim.Foster123
4 сағат бұрын
Sadly, I'm seeing a growing number of Christians endorse Open Theism, thinking it does no damage to the image of God portrayed in the Bible. (Kinda reminds me of how the number of flat-earthers has grown over the past ~20 years)
@WaterCat5
4 сағат бұрын
Yeah, but God did change his mind in the bible, so he isn't god by your own argument.
@benjaminwatt2436
3 сағат бұрын
@@WaterCat5 i'm having trouble with your argument. can you explain how the parts of the Bible that talk about God changing his mind effect him being God?
@tedroybal5231
2 сағат бұрын
I guess when God changes His mind now, He isn't powerful enough to tell us. So, we have to extrapolate and conclude He has. The ground is crumbling under us.
@pikehightower790
2 сағат бұрын
Amen and AMEN. Love, biblical love, is the "greatest of these."
@jimyoung9262
4 сағат бұрын
This was a great discussion. Thank you both.
@BradMcFadden
Сағат бұрын
Great interview. Very well done.
@andreahunter3904
5 сағат бұрын
There was a book called "Most Moved Mover" that explored this back many years. I think there is a difference between God changing character/purpose/outlook/essence and God relenting on a decision or response based on human response. God is ever the same which doesn't mean he doesn't respond differently to different responses to Him.
@Thatoneguy-pu8ty
6 сағат бұрын
Gavin how about a video on the self authenticating nature of the canon?
@AdrianB-R13
Сағат бұрын
I love your content Gavin. One problem with this entire topic is that Christians that oppose same sex marriage, are not identifying destructive results of that model. Anyone can agree on sins like alcoholism or p*rn addiction, because we've seen the clear destructive results of these issues. Liver cancer, broken marriages and infidelity, brain damage due to excessive intoxication, among other things. Until the church can present a clear case that homosexuality and gay marriage is destructive toward the wellbeing of people, then the church will simply continue to be divided. In the church today, as many interpretations as there are over every other verse in the Bible, the church needs something tangible to grab on to. And if it doesnt have that tangible anchor, then it will be divided. And the truth is that, in 21st century America, the Bible is not the the anchor of the church. We live in a post-christian environment and what used to serve as our anchor, just isnt viewed in the same light as it used to be.
@bartdanison3236
2 сағат бұрын
Thank you for doing this. I was in error on this subject for almost 20 years and I led others astray as well until the Lord granted me repentance. He did it through forcing me to ask one question, does the Bible ever present same-sex sexual attraction or activity as right? Corollary to that question is if it's not right why do it? I pray that the Lord will similarly grant repentance to not only the authors of that book but to all who are trapped in that error.
@Tim.Foster123
4 сағат бұрын
Rebecca is beautiful. I love the particular way in which she describes marriage as a pointer Christ and the Church. There's something in the way she moves the mind...
@jonasopmeer
4 сағат бұрын
Off topic but I appreciate this in-person studio format! Might recommend having a couple more lights to get the classic “three point lighting”, but looks good.
@MarsFireForge
6 сағат бұрын
I couldn’t have sat and done this, thank you for having patience to address such a fundamentally deceitful and flawed perspective and somehow keeping your cool.
@loganhurley5590
5 сағат бұрын
This perspective is really interesting to me. If you don't mind explaining, why would interacting with a wrong perspective be something to be mad about?
@MarsFireForge
5 сағат бұрын
@@loganhurley5590different strokes for different folks. Personality stuff, it’s not right it’s just my default setting.
@josephpchajek2685
5 сағат бұрын
@@loganhurley5590 Well, technically, operating in the spirit requires us to be calm and patient when dealing with people that legimately think this type of stuff. If we're not capable of doing that, then do we really care about whether or not we're following God?
@davidkunze2770
Сағат бұрын
Gods Word in the NT says we are to judge our thoughts. If we do not, then we are sinning in His sight per the NT. In other words action does not mean sin starts there, but rather in our fallen hearts. Blessings
@SaltyApologist
5 сағат бұрын
God is immutable and unchanging. He doesn’t change his mind.
@woodtier-gv8he
Сағат бұрын
Great discussion. Thanks be to God. I just wanted to say, being inclusive should not be about passing over the transgressions and temptations of our brethren. It should be about going out of our way to care for our brothers and sisters who have a different background or culture, rather than letting them sit there. Association is an important aspect, which came to my mind as I dug into Peter meeting Cornelius recently (Acts 10). Are we just to associate with anyone? What are the thresholds? Many idolators will even confess Jesus's name. And we should be aware, if we want our children to associate with theirs, what would happen to the church over time?
@pianoatthirty
3 сағат бұрын
The emotional and spiritual benefits of celibacy isn’t preached enough.
@Rolando_Cueva
2 сағат бұрын
Sure, but some people want to force celibacy unto gay Christians, while straight Christians choose celibacy freely.
@jamesstevenson1296
54 минут бұрын
The notion that God changes his mind could also be a premeditated progression of thought in which God is continually revealing to us a broader view of His love.
@shanezarcone5401
5 сағат бұрын
The sort of things that they have thrown away just to justify their sin is, to be honest, disgusting. They don’t even truly believe in God, for what sort of god do you have who changes his mind? How can an omnipotent being ever change their mind on any matter? The lengths men will go to to satisfy their fleshly desires.
@Rolando_Cueva
Сағат бұрын
That's a strawman. Read my recent comment.
@kennethswenson6214
12 минут бұрын
We also have to consider, although some people have discussed otherwise; the Doctrine that an individual Clergy is not "directly" responsible for the Sins of the members of his congregation, or the Sins that he might casually encounter outside of the congregational setting. So, a Clergy can welcome people to the Table of Body & Blood; while still quite specifically making the possible sins clear to understand. It is up to the individual whether they truly repent or not, if they do not the Clergy has reached the limit of their given position, and cannot be as individual Clergy called on and for the Sins of another.
@victorrene3852
3 сағат бұрын
Short answer is no. God hasn't changed his mind on sexuality.
@freedomfighter4990
5 сағат бұрын
I will never understand how gay/lesbian people can insist that homosexuality is ok with God because the Lord loves us & wants us to be happy so He somehow changed His mind about homosexuality. God wants us to be obedient to Him, first & foremost. The scriptures state this repeatedly in both the OT & NT. He created humans male & female in His image & made that opposite sex pairing the foundation of the family, & by extension, human social order. Nowhere in the Bible does God recant that. And God doesn't call us to happiness -- He calls us to holiness because He is holy. The lives of the apostles & Christ himself show us how choosing to follow the Lord often causes hardship, sorrow & even death for Believers. Paul wrote in Philippians 3:8-14: "Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ." Too many gays & lesbians or family members of homosexuals are now looking for ways to reverse or circumvent what the Bible clearly states about homosexuality. But the Church cannot & should not stand for that. There is no place in scripture where the Lord changes His mind about gay relationships. It would be dishonest & unloving for a Believer to mislead a gay person by saying that. What must be emphasized is that ALL sin is offensive to God, not just homosexuality, & we are all sinners. Gays & lesbians can choose to resist their sinful nature, remain celibate & be part of God's eternal family IF loving the Lord matters more to them than satisfying their personal lusts. And their celibacy is no more burdensome than celibacy is for a heterosexual person who never finds a mate to marry. Thank you for having such an open, honest discussion about this issue Dr. Ortlund.
@alanhowe7659
5 сағат бұрын
Answer: no, but our culture has. So: does the Church go with the Bible or the culture? That's the question we face in the CofE over here in the UK - and the leadership have chosen the culture. Wrong choice!
@JosiahTheSiah
3 сағат бұрын
The problem with that is that the book they're reviewing by Hayes & Hayes argues from scripture. And Gavin & Rebecca do a very good job arguing back, from scripture, for the historic view. And they show how the Hayes's arguments from scripture aren't good. But to just reduce the argument to "Bible or Culture" is to play into Hayes' argument.
@Rolando_Cueva
Сағат бұрын
No. Our culture says to have as many sexual partners as possible. Gay Christians go against that by being monogamous.
@EchoP7596
6 сағат бұрын
It’s always suspicious when a long time Christian completely flips their views on homosexuality. This is clearly not based on scripture or logic, but based off of experience and emotion. I don’t want to accuse, but I won’t be shocked if we find out one or both authors are coping with some form of same sex attraction. Richard Hays used to be considered a leading scholar, and to see this quackery puts a lot of his scholarship in question. What a shame.
@Thatoneguy-pu8ty
5 сағат бұрын
Man loved darkness rather than light 😞
@littleboots9800
5 сағат бұрын
I have observed this happen, often when a family member or loved one comes out as SSA. I think Andy Stanley may have had his change of heart due to a younger family member of his that is SSA. I have sympathy for sure with the emotional conflict this would bring, but conceding on this issue ultimately leaves one with no defence against those who demand you concede on other issues and it all unravels.
@EchoP7596
5 сағат бұрын
@@littleboots9800 It’s bizarre that some Christians are so quick to adjust their beliefs for sexuality, but will condemn people who lack belief. It’s strange indeed.
@WaterCat5
4 сағат бұрын
@@littleboots9800If conceding one issue based on evidence completely unravels your belief system, don't you think your belief system is too rigid?
@littleboots9800
3 сағат бұрын
@@WaterCat5 But the evidence is not there, they are setting aside evidence in order to accomodate their personal beliefs. If you can ignore clear teaching on this issue then what is to stop you ignoring it in others? That's what I'm saying. You are saying something different by starting with the assumption that there is evidence for their new beliefs and that they have suddenly found it, rather than rejecting clear evidence in favour of their own interpretation that they have come up with to fit with their desires.
@JoelKorytko
5 сағат бұрын
I don't think you quite got the exegesis of Ezekiel 20 and Exodus 22 right on this one. I did a video on their exegesis that I think might help you on those texts. They don't refer to child sacrifice, but not in the way you outlined. Check them out, if you get time!
@Truth_not_deception1
4 сағат бұрын
The New Covenant Scripture says if a man lusts after a woman in his heart it’s the same as having sexual relations outside of marriage. Having sexual relations is for a man and a woman who are married.
@dpainter1526
5 сағат бұрын
NO. Easy.
@aperson4057
18 минут бұрын
Good talk, though i disagree about slavery. The issue being that no one saw slavery in of itself as immoral. Perhaps, morally neutral, but not immoral. Hence, abolition cannot be defended from the sole biblical text (pro slavers probably had better exegesis to be honest). It must be argued that we moderns morally improved from what scripture had as not even tradition helps us. The idea that she says Philemon lit a match and burned the gunpowder under slavery is anachronistic.
@mariomene2051
27 минут бұрын
💯
@tylerdunford6031
3 сағат бұрын
This stuff isn't complicated. All you have to do is not care about what culture says and look to scripture and also how the early church interpreted the scriptures. Done. People who think the bible affirms sex-same marriage either can't read properly or they're not Christian.
@mj6493
4 сағат бұрын
I haven’t read the Hays' book, but as it is portrayed in this video, it sounds like the boilerplate theology of my revisionist mainline denomination. Welcome and inclusion, but no cross.
@benjaminwatt2436
4 сағат бұрын
There is no exclusion of any person in the gospel, but there is a call to give up on yourself and take on a new identity in Christ. Anyone who identifies as LGBT, must give that up and persue sexual desires that God created. Our culture and feelings will often contridict the gospel
@geoffjs
6 сағат бұрын
God is omniscient & omnipresent & doesn’t change His mind or learn on the job! That is blasphemous!
@Psalm19-1
5 сағат бұрын
Holy Scripture states that God repents (changes his mind) over 30 times. Twice it states that He does not change His mind: not by God Himself, but other characters. In Numbers 23:19, Balaam, speaking under God's direction, isn't making a blanket statement about God's ontological nature (prove it from the text otherwise.) He’s simply telling Balak that no curse will reverse God's favor toward Israel in that moment. Similarly, in 1 Samuel 15:29, Samuel is warning Saul that God's judgment on him is final for that situation (the judgment itself was a change of mind, since He had earlier promised that Saul’s lineage would reign over Israel forever). But Exodus 32:14, and a host of other verses, explicitly state, "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." If scripture plainly states that God changes His mind, why would we then distort it to align with these abstract metaphysical claims that can not be found in Scripture?
@SamTheSubSaharan
5 сағат бұрын
@geoffjs yet there are multiple times where the Lord changed his mind in scripture.
@geoffjs
4 сағат бұрын
@@SamTheSubSaharan I’m curious, when?
@SamTheSubSaharan
4 сағат бұрын
@@geoffjs Genesis 6:6, 1 Sam 15, the whole book of Jonah, Jer 18:5 - 10, Joel 2:13.
@JohnMark61355
3 сағат бұрын
David, a man God said is “a man after my own heart,” was married to more than one wife and had sex with concubines (I am not talking about the Bathsheba affair.). As Christians, we now consider these actions to be grave sins. Did God change his mind regarding the sinfulness of these activities or did our understanding of God’s will change?
@Elioc-ed6wr
Сағат бұрын
Matthew 19:8 "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning." So based on my understanding of your question, I'd say the latter.
@ogloc6308
20 минут бұрын
David also slept with a married woman and had her husband killed to cover up his shame. Does that make it right? No. You’re making a categorical error. David is not a man after God’s own heart BECAUSE he was perfect or mostly good. He IS a man after God’s own heart because he is a man of faith even though he still made many mistakes. God permitted divorce BECAUSE of the hardness of man’s heart. God’s design for marriage is that man and wife are bound together for life. Likewise, we can also venture that perhaps God permitted polygamy in the time of the Old Testament. Jesus affirms marriage between one man and one woman in the Gospels by quoting Genesis. Just because God permitted something long ago does not mean we can go around changing God’s law and picking and choosing which ones we want to follow. There are clear categories in the law. There are those that specifically pertain to Israel in that covenant and those that pertain to all people of all times. Lev 18 22 commands that a man shall not lie with a man as he does with a woman. Lev 18 24 continues that God is JUDGING the nations that He is driving out because they practice these things. That means that God holds people besides the covenant Jews to these standards as well.
@bradencross1
2 сағат бұрын
I would really love to see more engagement on open theism as you and Rebecca do at the beginning of this video. I just can't help to be frustrated at the mere mention of open theism. Open theism seems to distort Biblical truths and hurts the testimony of the church. I also wonder if this is something worth engaging with theological triage? Where should open theism rank?
@ilikerealmaplesyrup
5 сағат бұрын
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever... or maybe he changes his mind about that. Is God a double-minded man unstable in all his ways ? Imagine being so gay that you have to twist everything you read in the Bible
@metrx330
3 сағат бұрын
I am a gay Christian. Been in a monogamous relationship with my husband for 25 years. I love Jesus with all my heart. I pray God will forgive us for our sin. I just want everyone to be happy and worshiping our creator.
@daninspiration4064
2 сағат бұрын
You. Can live with another man as friends not cannot have any intimacy if Jesus was standing Before you what would he say? If you know you’re wrong then correct it no excuses
@Rolando_Cueva
Сағат бұрын
@@daninspiration4064 When did Jesus say being gay is wrong? I can't find it.
@Elioc-ed6wr
Сағат бұрын
@@Rolando_Cueva To clarify, "being gay" defined as having a proclivity towards homosexual behavior is not a sin, but rather just an indicator of our fallen nature. "Being gay" as an active participant in a sexual act is a sin. Simply because it's not mentioned directly by Jesus doesn't mean it's not wrong: Jesus doesn't mention child sacrifice as wrong, yet we all know based on God's actions in the OT that it's wrong. Similarly, we see repeated throughout the OT and NT, firstly, God's punishment against Sodom and Gomorrah for their perversion of God's design for sex, Levitical law, God's clear design for marriage as "a man and a woman unite to become one flesh," as well as Romans 1, condemning "man-bedding." Perhaps the simplest is to look at God's design for marriage: adultery and homosexuality are all sodomy.
@ogloc6308
35 минут бұрын
@@Rolando_CuevaJesus is God and His word is the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. There are many instances of God denouncing homosexuality and all sexual immorality in general. Jesus said ”He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”“ Matthew 19:4-6 ESV If God had made more than 2 genders don’t you think that Jesus would’ve mentioned it? If marriage could be in any other configuration than Man + Woman, this would’ve been the place to mention it. If parenthood could be in any other configuration other than Father and Mother, this would’ve been the place to mention it. Instead, Jesus quotes the scripture and sticks to the natural Male + Female, Father + Mother and Husband + Wife configuration, as does the rest of scripture. Jesus’ Apostle Paul writes against homosexuality several times. For example ”For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.“ Romans 1:26-27 ESV The Torah mentions homosexuality several times as well. For example ”“A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.“ Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV If its wrong for a man to put on a woman’s garment then logically it is also wrong for a man to assume the woman’s role in the sex act by becoming the receiver and the submissive one. Another example: ”You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.“ Leviticus 18:22 ESV You will notice that these are not rules just for the Jews as the scripture continues in Lev 18 with ”“Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.“ Leviticus 18:24-25 ESV You have absolutely no case and no foundation to stand on. Repent and believe on The Lord Jesus Christ.
@JesusisKing134
32 минут бұрын
He said it in the OT and in the epistles unless you don't believe those are God breathed like scripture says. Or maybe you don't believe Jesus is the same God as the God of the OT
@tedroybal5231
2 сағат бұрын
I guess when God changes His mind now, He isn't powerful enough to tell us. So, we have to extrapolate and conclude He has. The ground is crumbling under us.
@Rolando_Cueva
Сағат бұрын
What if God never changed his mind though? Maybe we have been misinterpreting Leviticus and Paul. The things written in the Bible have a historical context. Pederasty was rampant in Ancient Greece, pagans were having "relations" with young boys/teenagers. They were not having consensual relations because there was a power imbalance. We're reading Paul's letters with our first century bias. There are many LGBT Christians who are seeking God. Let's show them the love of God and not turn them away. God bless you my brothers and sisters in Christ 🙏🏻
@transfigured3673
5 сағат бұрын
Tertullian argued that the passages where God "changes his mind" show the the Son was the god most frequently encountered in the OT but that God the Father doesn't change and that God the Father was training the son to be a more perfect god throughout the bible. Sounds weirdly similar to the argument in this book in some ways. That said, Tertullian never would have tolerated gay marriage, that much is clear.
@z3rocodes
4 сағат бұрын
Is Tertullian a Church Father or was he rejected for doctrines like this?
@WaterCat5
4 сағат бұрын
Sounds like Jesus isn't perfect, which makes the father not perfect because of the trinity.
@benjaminwatt2436
2 сағат бұрын
@@WaterCat5 Do you intend to defend any of your wild statements or are you just a troll. every comment you've put has no substantiation, just baseless claims
@ogloc6308
17 минут бұрын
That sounds completely heretical. Jesus is God eternal, the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. He does not need to be taught anything.
@HenryLeslieGraham
5 сағат бұрын
I might have to move 'the moral vision of the new testament' to my heresy section given Richard Hays recent apostasy from historic christendom.
@insomnolant6043
4 сағат бұрын
Might?
@TheChurchofBreadandCheese
7 сағат бұрын
What do you make Dan McClellan scholarship on homosexuality in the Bible? Thanks for the video.
@TacoTuesday4
6 сағат бұрын
I have found that guy to be a complete waste of time. Both in consuming his content and any time others respond to him. He is incapable of interacting in an intellectually honest way.
@Drewman56
6 сағат бұрын
If I remember he said certain bible verses were talking about pedophilia and not homosexuality when condemning it. He was wrong regarding that interpretation.
@Narikku
6 сағат бұрын
Dan's entire point is that the Bible, namely Paul, is *wrong* on sexuality. If one is under the presupposition that the Bible reflects God's view on sexuality, then that is simply an incompatible view, lest one wants to say God is wrong.
@josephpchajek2685
6 сағат бұрын
@@Narikku Dan is merely a confused Mormon. Doesn't have the holy spirit, doesn't care about truth. He just acares about being right, he'll also often pridefully speak about the Greek. He's not a follower of Christ.
@ESMaddock
6 сағат бұрын
I'm glad to hear that Dr. Ortlund believes that God loves everyone. I thought he was a Calvinist.
@jensonharris3636
6 сағат бұрын
Thanks for being needlessly divisive.
@clarkemorledge2398
5 сағат бұрын
@@jensonharris3636 I echo your sentiment. One can disagree with certain elements of Calvinist teaching without misrepresenting Calvinism in the process
@ESMaddock
5 сағат бұрын
@@jensonharris3636 Soteriology is central to our view of God, which is very germane to this conversation. Most self-described Calvinists do not believe that God loves all humans.
@EmilTennis00
5 сағат бұрын
non-calvinists not bringing up calvinism in any theological discurse: mission impossible
@ESMaddock
5 сағат бұрын
@@EmilTennis00 Calvinists not getting angry when the inconsistencies in their worldview are pointed out: the impossible dream
@joeoleary9010
5 сағат бұрын
Her argument is correct that "God changed his mind" on things like polygamy and divorce. Gavin is correct that there's a core biblical precedent for what marriage means, along with a repeated condemnations of ss relations. Make of that what you will.
@dpainter1526
5 сағат бұрын
God did not change His mind on polygamy or divorce.
@joeoleary9010
5 сағат бұрын
@@dpainter1526 No, of course not. Nor on slavery, or usury, or witches. The Bible is perfectly perfect from start to finish!
@josephpchajek2685
4 сағат бұрын
@@joeoleary9010 It didn't change it's mind on slavery either.... Slavery was allowed for the same reason Moses permitted divorce certificates. The message of the first become the last wasn't new in the New Testament, it is a teaching from the Old Testament all the way through.
@IAmDLFL
4 сағат бұрын
@@joeoleary9010 If you had a 3 year old, would you discipline them for forgetting to do something you told them to do? If you had a 13 year old who did the same thing, would you discipline them? Whatever your answers are, you could reasonably conceive of a parent saying "No" and then "Yes". Has the parent "changed their mind" on whether their children should do their chores? No. It's the context that changes, the principle is still the same.
@joeoleary9010
4 сағат бұрын
@@josephpchajek2685 Yes, the BIble is perfectly consistent and moral from start to finish, even on slavery. :)
@dgbx6
Сағат бұрын
The stupid fear-mongering that this books appeal with encourage and justify polygamy is dishonest and JUST PLAIN STUPID. You just have to KILL this book don't you. Shame on you.
@z3rocodes
4 сағат бұрын
Theres only one branch of Christianity this can happen in. They mimic the patterns of the world and are shocked the Enemy has overcome them. You will know them by their fruit, and this particular branch of Christianity has consistently led to rotten apples. It is their own pride and arrogance. It will destroy itself and those who hear the Lords voice will return to the Apostolic roots, which have stood the test of time.
@tylerdunford6031
3 сағат бұрын
Although Orthodoxy and Catholicism are much more standing their ground on cultural issues, this isn't entire true. Protestantism is extremely sick right now in the West, but the Catholic Church was extremely sick during the period of the Reformation. Protestantism by and large in the West is an embarrassment.
@ogloc6308
5 минут бұрын
Have you not heard what the pope has said in recent years? He claims that all faiths lead to God. He told one boy who’s father had died that he will be in heaven, despite being an atheist, because he was charitable. The glue that holds Christians and Christianity together is not some supposedly infallible declaration from men, it is God. God’s Holy Spirit shepherds His sheep and His Holy Word is what dictates what we should and should not do. The eastern orthodox and roman catholic churches are corrupt as well and have been for ages. They teach you to pray to and “venerate” people, angels, statues and pictures: clear idolatry. They teach you that men and angels are your mediators and intercessors while the scriptures teach that Jesus Christ alone is our sole mediator to God and man. They completely distort the gospel and create a new law for themselves, attempting to be perfected by the flesh just like Paul warns us against in Galatians. They may look nice on the outside but they have corrupted the Gospel that we have received from the Apostles clearly laid out in scripture
@matthewbroderick6287
5 сағат бұрын
If we are saved by the man made tradition of faith alone as Gavin Ortlund teaches, does it matter one's sexual lives? So much for faith ALONE! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@EmilTennis00
5 сағат бұрын
that's the worst strawman of sola fide I ever heard. I suggest you put the same effort into understanding your opponents' positions as you put into commenting under every protestant video.
@matthewbroderick6287
5 сағат бұрын
@@EmilTennis00 straw man?🤣 Again, faith alone is never found in Holy Scripture, except to negate it! Again, if we are saved by the man made tradition of faith alone, then a Christian can never lose one's salvation through their sexual lives! As the theory goes anyway! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@EmilTennis00
5 сағат бұрын
@@matthewbroderick6287yes, straw man. Your comment shows you have never read (or at least watched Gavin's videos on that) anything about how Protestants articulate why good works must follow and are necessary for salvation.
@tpoli5447
5 сағат бұрын
@@matthewbroderick6287. You mean the words faith alone? The words trinity and hell aren’t in the Bible either but they’re clearly taught all throughout scripture so we believe in them. Read Romans 3
@matthewbroderick6287
5 сағат бұрын
@@tpoli5447 it is by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE that we are JUSTIFIED, as Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and keep the commandments and persevere to the end to be saved! Purgatory is Biblical as well, although the word is not mentioned! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@william6223
6 сағат бұрын
I am no believer in the Bible or living the modern concept of self sacrifice elevated excessively and unnaturally. I do believe God is Life is Consciousness, and this is bigger than words, larger than dogma, and quieter than preachers. What an individual does sexually cannot be determined by God, since that is not how God works, to the best of my knowledge. We are organisms within the greater whole. Any condemnation is a form coming from an human or institution, emanating from prejudice and fear. Imo. Where is the love?
@Samy-sx6kn
6 сағат бұрын
But does it matter what you believe? Or the reality?
@perfidious333
6 сағат бұрын
What you believe or feel isn't important. God tends to be explicitly clear about certain things...
@Qwerty-jy9mj
6 сағат бұрын
Protestantism is moving in your direction, at some point your view will become commonplace
@Evan-fg5nt
6 сағат бұрын
Your soul shall be prayed for
@zacdredge3859
6 сағат бұрын
Is Life a word? is Consciousness a word? Why describe anything about God if God is too big for words? Is your condemnation of dogmatism in sexual ethics based n anything in particular? Why is the 'best of your knowledge' a higher standard of truth than God revealing Himself in and through history? Shouldn't you embrace the opportunity of people to express the divine consciousness in ways that express the alleged prejudice and fear that you despise? By what standard do you do so?
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