Honestly I feel like this show was specifically for the people who have waited years to see all of these random characters literally do anything.
@blackchickiedee7
5 ай бұрын
I've noticed that too because nothing really happens in the show... so HH just comes across as basically "here's your show damn" because fans were getting tired of making their own plot/scenarios. And the fact that you literally have to go online to find out things about the show and its characters is further proof. Fans shouldn't have to resort to social media to find out how the world building works, the plot, characters, content, etc. That's literally what a show is suppose to do. HH got way too popular and for that, now it feels like the creator is just letting fans make connections in their own time through social media, implement fan theories while she plays out the BIG, pivotal stuff in the show. And to me that's not worth getting invested in
@NeyamStar
5 ай бұрын
Yup
@halogeek6
4 ай бұрын
i am one of those people. this show was definitly not for me.
@Leafdontfly
4 ай бұрын
true, lot of people I know that loves this show are just like that...
@SwordTune
4 ай бұрын
You know what? I think you're onto something.
@logical_141
5 ай бұрын
For hell being so “overpopulated” it sure does feel really empty.
@Sifya
5 ай бұрын
Yes the housing isn't terrible either, if in comic angel dust for having a studio flat he only needed to have oral sex with the owner. In UK biggest cities I'm paying 600 no bill include.
@TTSP907
5 ай бұрын
It isn’t overpopulated, that was the whole point.
@logical_141
5 ай бұрын
@@TTSP907 Charlie acknowledged that hell was overpopulated, that’s why she went to Adam in the first place. She was providing an alternative solution to their overpopulation problem that didn’t involve killing.
@jordankelso1230
5 ай бұрын
We start right after a culling though so it wouldn't be very overpopulated
@carlosdgutierrez6570
5 ай бұрын
Doesn't Carmille say that something like a sixth or a fifth of the whole population was killed that year's extermination in the overlord meeting? With such population loss it isn't surprising that right after extermination the place is a bit empty before being refilled with the new year decease.
@isabelschmitz7173
6 ай бұрын
Lucifer has daughter issues
@TheOpeningDay
6 ай бұрын
Did you even watch the show He resolves it in the exact same episode he's introduced in 😭
@sirstinky6387
6 ай бұрын
Wouldn't it be the other way around? 🤔 Lucifer DOES have depression, Charlie as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have a good relationship with her father, but she doesn't have depression like Lucifer does.
@cakefrosting6451
6 ай бұрын
I mean, there’s now such a thing called children abusing their parents, and it’s even a criminal offence, soooooooo…
@lxmesoda
6 ай бұрын
@@cakefrosting6451he never abused her?? what???
@ragsrare3771
6 ай бұрын
@@TheOpeningDay I agreed and I hated that. I hope Lilith to be a villain and the reason why this relationship is like this because if she turn out good wife and a mother then it doesn’t make sense
@moldycheese6635
3 ай бұрын
About the scene where Husk just states everyone’s issues out loud, maybe it would’ve been better if those assumptions were just completely wrong. It would establish that Husk thinks he knows everything when he actually doesn’t. Idk what the writers would do with that from there, but I think it’s a start
@NegaWarhead
3 ай бұрын
That's actually a pretty good idea
@Astropeleki
2 ай бұрын
That scene would have been pretty funny if, by the time it played, what he says is known to the viewer. It would be a fun way to show how these characters react when confronted with the truth: however we know nothing of Vaggie's motivation other than "Charlie wants it, so I'll do it" and Charlie has shown exactly 0 interactions with her dad, making it impossible to ever remotely she has a difficult relationship with him. Which is why that scene is more confusing than funny.
@AZ-ty7ub
6 ай бұрын
It feels like Vivziepop wants to have these "chaotic evil" characters but can't follow through because that would mean people seeing her overly beloved OCs as the bad guy, so you end up with this dissonance of having and archon of hell giving you self-care advice.
@Retard634
6 ай бұрын
safe edge the rabm response to national socialist black metal none of these "people" are actually edgy and do their best to get all the interesting shit banned
@AZ-ty7ub
6 ай бұрын
@@Retard634 what?
@saul_goodmanirl
6 ай бұрын
@@Retard634didnt expect black metal here out of all places
@midorithefestivegardevoir6727
6 ай бұрын
You know, a chaotic evil character that hides behind/spouts self-care advice as they commit atrocities is a pretty good premise. You should use it.
@AZ-ty7ub
6 ай бұрын
@@midorithefestivegardevoir6727 I mean Hannibal is one of my favorite shows after all.
@Grezilla95
6 ай бұрын
The parallel to my little pony was CRAZY!!!!💀💀💀
@im_theodore
6 ай бұрын
The fact it works so well is even worse
@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq
6 ай бұрын
@@im_theodorepeople say Steven universe it’s not really MLP
@Acidburn1155
6 ай бұрын
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq The fuck are you talking about?
@DrawciaGleam02
6 ай бұрын
Same! Is it bad that I've thought about what cutie marks the Hazbin characters would have?
@fruitloops2058
6 ай бұрын
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq don't remember SU having an exposition sequence like a story book
@alexismaldonado6396
6 ай бұрын
This is a very random nitpick, but most of the cast died during different times, but Rosie, Alastor and Mimzy are the only ones who act like they’re from a different time period. It would’ve been interesting to see everyone have certain mannerisms and values that tie in with the time they were alive.
@RoamingTrend
6 ай бұрын
That would require thought and care of different time periods.
@whoasked3961
6 ай бұрын
@@RoamingTrend To be fair, Alastor is specifically meant to be stuck in his ways, disliking newer technology, and refusing to adapt to modern hell society. His two friends would naturally be other characters who've chosen not to adapt as well, both specifically being from his own time period. That would contrast the characters who are more inclined to adapt as hell does, right?
@matijasostojic4288
6 ай бұрын
Im kinda sad we don't have any overlord who is Like REALLY old. Like I don't know how old Zestial is but from the way he talks he is atleast a few centuries. You could make a Point that everybody else adapted to the Times but from how Alastor only talk to Zesty I can't see Carmilla, Flaming skull man or the big dog? girl Being older than maybe Alastor.
@DrawciaGleam02
6 ай бұрын
@@RoamingTrend Or maybe just a moment where its required to use tech from a specific time period to solve an issue?
@GamerGod_99
6 ай бұрын
@@RoamingTrend Yeaaaaaa but as we all know the past is EVIL and BIGOTED and Vivziepop knows better than to take inspiration from it because she's just so smart and stunning
@PlagueOfGripes
4 ай бұрын
The series isn't really written. It's a series of projection fantasy setups for dolls. The writing is immature and obvious, which at first may seem intentional for the characters but quickly becomes apparent is a limitation of the creative team. One of the biggest issues bad or young writers have is falling in love with the idea of their characters instead of what's actually on the paper. Characters expositing the premise for other characters is exhibit A for this problem. It's rushing to establish a doll instead of using the premise to convey a story.
@dio8156
4 ай бұрын
It all just feels so incredibly insincere as do all "adult" animations, not to mention the godawful dialogue. I hated the Netflix Castlevania series for the same "sailor mouth" stuff.
@tehskullmunkymedia594
4 ай бұрын
Speak of Cartoon Lesbians, & Plague appears. So hows the progress on that Fence going?
@spotty530
3 ай бұрын
@@dio8156dude that’s so true. i enjoyed both castlevania and hazbin hotel, but the dialogue of both shows always rubbed me the wrong way even when i was watching the episodes with positive expectations
@AyatollahVulture
3 ай бұрын
@@dio8156 bruh Isaac has the most cringest shit, the writers literally ripped off fucking Albert Einstein's quote about madness shit actually made me crunch up and groan in pain. i dont mind cussing if its done RIGHT. theres such a thing as awkward cussing and it should only be used by characters that it makes sense for them to cuss
@user-AADZ
3 ай бұрын
You literally wrote the precursor to furrymon
@TheDoughboy1917
6 ай бұрын
To me, and I am by no means a professional or hyper competent writer, it seems like all of these characters are Vizie's OC that she's *super* passionate about. She knows exactly where she wants them all to end up but doesn't want to go through the process of building up their characters, she wants instant pay off so she can get to the big fight scene that she's imagined in her head while listening to music. I'm actually kind of shocked there are so many writers because this show feels like if you gave (and I am speaking from personal experience here lol) a Tumblr user completely free regin to make a show about all their original characters with 0 additional oversight.
@usunposta915
6 ай бұрын
exactly what i was thinking about when watching. i like the show personally, but it seems like a world that viv created when she was 15 and tried to changed as little as possible bc of how attached she is to the story. sorry for the english!
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
A lot of people have tried to excuse the show's pacing issues by pointing to the season's low episode count. But "Helluva Boss" has also received criticism for rushing through its plot points even though it doesn't have a set amount of episodes. I don't think the episode count is the problem, I think this is just how Viv writes. As a possible example of Viv being overly passionate about her characters, I'll point to episode 3. I found Carmilla's second musical number strange, because we've just met this character. I haven't actually gotten the chance to know her or see her relationship with her daughters, so how can I take any meaning from her singing about how she wants to protect them? I think what may have happened is that Viv already knew the characters' history and motivations and was emotionally invested with her, but didn't consider that the audience may not feel the same connection to her.
@anfani6839
6 ай бұрын
I think she has waaaaaay too many characters - this also is a problem with Helluva Boss, I think - It feels like she wants to make a character every time a new idea pops inside her head and then wants to write them into the story, no matter how much they fit/not fit into the narrative
@realdragon
6 ай бұрын
I started writing, I'm not that good by all means and it is really tempting to write "And this happened, then this happened to MC and this" without all the build up. I have ideas for far future but first MC needs to deal with current problems
@Spino-hx2mr
6 ай бұрын
"so she can get to the big fight scene that she's imagined in her head while listening to music." Shit. I'm guilty of this. Oh, well, at least I understand that my skill is unrefined at the moment. don't exactly want to fall into this pitfall, though.
@lamented-musings8932
6 ай бұрын
I think a big issue is that they didn’t redo the pilot so they keep explaining parts from the pilot since the show continues from the pilot.
@Ilikecookies.
6 ай бұрын
you know, when i watched the trailer and some teasers, I THOUGHT that ep 1 is a redo of the pilot AND this series have 16-24 EPISODES before I learned there will be 8!!
@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord
6 ай бұрын
@@Ilikecookies.Why would you think the show has 16 episodes? Honestly name 1 show on streaming thats has 16 episodes let alone 24?
@Ilikecookies.
6 ай бұрын
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylordExtraordinary Woo Young Woo? A kdrama with 16 episodes in Netflix. Oh and you asked for a show not specifically an “animated show” that’s why I said a kdrama series. I had hopeful feelings and thoughts that the series will be balanced and good cause when I saw the trailer the clips really shows like “Oh this clip looks like if I estimate it..probably ep 7” in my perspective, even with how people felt like the battle of the exterminators feels like it could be in season 2-3ish. Also I rarely watch animated shows but I see why that Hazbin has 8 episodes cause of the animation added to the production and why I was not surprised when I searched up in the internet that it will be 8 because nowadays we’re just getting new short series or a really old series with 12+ seasons.
@Sqwivig
6 ай бұрын
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord Because 16 to 24 episodes was the standard length of a season for decades. It's only recently within the past 5 years where that hasn't been the norm.
@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord
6 ай бұрын
@@Sqwivig try again that was the standard for tv in the past and streaming services rarely have shows longer than 10 episodes. Seems like your not keeping up with the times thats your fault.
@hamstrungharry259
6 ай бұрын
I think the writers probably thought having daddy issues meant having a dad.
@Gm-ce5kg
6 ай бұрын
that's not roasted , its full burn
@Rikken552
6 ай бұрын
Like having roaches is considered a roach problem
@Stephanie-mv9iy
5 ай бұрын
@@Rikken552if you see one roach everyone once a month you don't don't a roach problem
@enzoqueijao
5 ай бұрын
@@Stephanie-mv9iyMaybe none of us don't don't a roach problem 😔
@Stephanie-mv9iy
5 ай бұрын
@@enzoqueijao maybe maybe none one of us is an impostor.
@SpikeJet2736
4 ай бұрын
Angels being just as evil as the demons they fight is a very subversive and fresh take on the biblical myth... is what I would say if this came out in 1990
@worldweaver2691
3 ай бұрын
yeah
@martinlorca2024
3 ай бұрын
Yes
@Scantronimus466
3 ай бұрын
It’s exactly the same as Spawn…which came out in the 90s.
@shadowfox8425
3 ай бұрын
😅😅
@SpikeJet2736
2 ай бұрын
@@Scantronimus466 to be fair I said 1990, Spawn came out in 1992 although I'm sure there were plenty of other stories that did the same thing around that time.
@shadowmarionette9397
6 ай бұрын
The entire plot of Hazbin Hotel is Charlie desperately trying to explain what the supposed plot of Hazbin Hotel.
@Deeznuggets592
6 ай бұрын
You sound like a Rick and Morty fanboy
@shadowmarionette9397
6 ай бұрын
@@Deeznuggets592 No, I'm a FNAF fan.
@CrazyLikeUhFox
6 ай бұрын
@@shadowmarionette9397A FnaF fan? Shitting on Hazbin Hotel? Based.
@shadowmarionette9397
6 ай бұрын
@@CrazyLikeUhFox I'm not shitting on it, I was making a joke.
@Noelle_Holiday
6 ай бұрын
@@shadowmarionette9397 As a Deltarune fan myself, hearing about a FNAF fan roasting the hell out of Hazbin Hotel is actually kinda based.
@bolladragon
6 ай бұрын
One detail I noticed was Vivzie’s obsession with writing characters with Daddy issues. I inly noticed it after Charlie because it doesn’t make much sense when the entire cast of Helluva Boss (save Millie) has actual relationship troubles with their father figures, and Lucifer is supposed to be distant only to be a great dad the moment Charlie asks for him. It feels like Lucifer being a good father was an accident. Like you said, Viv and the crew don’t know much about actual Christian mythology. Make Lucifer a control freak. It would perfectly reflect the actual fallen angel and explain both Charlie’s choice to stay distant, Lucifer enthusiasm to help, and why he’s depressed since Hell doesn’t need his guidance.
@Light-ro5bp
6 ай бұрын
She also seems to avoid writing mothers for some reason (save Millie, again), in Helluva Boss they are either dead, missing or have no relationship whatsoever with their daughter *cough* Stella and Octavia *cough*, at least they are hyping Lilith in Hazbin though I’m still a little disappointed we didn’t get to see Eve, it would have been cool if she were Lute instead as a nice contrast with whatever is going on with Lucifer’s marriage. EDIT: Actually I might have spoken a little too soon on Eve, wasn’t there a supposed leak where she is the final villain? I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers avoid her entirely either, if the former turns out to be true scratch the last part of my original comment.
@supernova2727
6 ай бұрын
yes! this lucifer is an AWFUL adaptation of the bible character. if lucifer was written as a “too imposing father” itd be much more believable regarding charlie’s “daddy issues”… or you can literally make him a good father but still an imposing figure 😭 like i said in my own comment, i believe this lucifer just ISNT actually lucifer, hes lacking fire, passion and, most importantly, PRIDE.
@RushWheeler
6 ай бұрын
Never understood why people keep making religious fiction based on religions they know nothing about. Didn't we have enough with Gods of Egypt and Clash of the Titans?
@joshuaslawson9125
6 ай бұрын
@@RushWheelerI think part of it is, Christianity is the "easy" target, but in doing so it became stale and boring.
@supernova2727
6 ай бұрын
@@RushWheeler right, its just soooo frustrating. bible lore is cool as shit ppl should read it to adapt it, i love what the show “Lucifer” did with it, honestly
@GPlasticBeach
6 ай бұрын
I think almost all of these issues stem from the fact that Vivziepop got too popular and was given a show too fast; she had no time to grow and mature as a writer and from day one everyone online told her how good her stuff was
@joshuafischer684
6 ай бұрын
I mean, she's had 20 years to develop her writing skills. But the show still comes across like a 14 year old girl wrote it.
@whatisthisfor12345
5 ай бұрын
@@joshuafischer684 Stop insulting 14 year olds
@lolzonezzzz
5 ай бұрын
@@whatisthisfor12345real
@Rayman-kddz2
5 ай бұрын
@@whatisthisfor12345AND START INSULTING 3 YEAR OLDS HOORAH🦅
@NeyamStar
5 ай бұрын
Yup
@maskedfoxx7173
5 ай бұрын
Hazbin Hotel reminds me a lot of my teenage self trying to write stories. It starts with a character design that you really like. You give them their personality and backstory and THEN figure out where and how they can be shoehorned into the main plot. The characters don't really have connections to one another prior to the current plot or if they do it's very serface level/on paper only. It's not that the characters were created for the story, it's that the story was created for the characters.
@whywouldanyonedothis
4 ай бұрын
Actually this is kind of what happened with Vivzie- Alastor was a character she created back when she was in middle school, and she decided to put him in Hazbin
@redpanda6497
4 ай бұрын
Same, and I wondered why my story was a mess of storylines and ideas that were barely connected together. I stopped thinking about it for years because it didn't go anywhere and now I'm trying to rewrite it. lol
@maskedfoxx7173
4 ай бұрын
@@redpanda6497 GG! Hope it works out for you!
@redpanda6497
4 ай бұрын
@@maskedfoxx7173 Thanks!
@martinlorca2024
3 ай бұрын
@@redpanda6497 Go on, good luck
@protonjones54
6 ай бұрын
Wait what? Charlie is advertised as having daddy issues, and her dad is like, the most wholesome character on the show? Edit: 95% of the replies be like, "uhm, ackshually-" 🤓
@RoamingTrend
6 ай бұрын
Yup
@protonjones54
6 ай бұрын
@@RoamingTrend dafuq
@irediche
5 ай бұрын
Yeah, it almost looks like her issues with him is that he is not messed up
@LuckythecatZ-
5 ай бұрын
Literally, i saw people talking about her supposed daddy issues and when i watched the show got so confused Like Hes really nice?? He is supportive and came asap when charlie called. I think it has something to do with the divorce or seperation of lilith and lucifer (though idk which it is?? Idk if theyre divorced or not or how lilith left with charlie if only lilith is gone if you know whaz i mean))
@YouraverageNewbie
5 ай бұрын
Uhm, Its not that Charlie got like abused by Lucifer or anything like how I red that comment, its that she didn't have much time to see Lucifer because he was always busy.
@williamswonderland3636
6 ай бұрын
It's like I always say "adult" animation is much more juvenile than childrens shows.
@DoubleDragon-ks2hk
6 ай бұрын
I think it's because children shows have more restrictions on what you can show, say and do in them so writers are forced to be more creative and sutdul with the message they want to send.
@williamswonderland3636
6 ай бұрын
@@DoubleDragon-ks2hk perhaps. Although my friend had a theory that there not for adults there for yong adults like teens and stuff.
@RandomDude647
6 ай бұрын
for the most part yeah, but there are a few gems out there. bojack horseman comes to mind
@williamswonderland3636
6 ай бұрын
@@RandomDude647 your right that is of higher quality from what I've seen but it's more of an exception that in some ways proves the rule because not that meny teens are into it as they are into something like has bin at least in my circles
@mrziggyzaggy113
6 ай бұрын
i think there is some great adult aninmation that is really mature and has great messaging. like trigun, which isnt specifically made for adults but wouldnt really be understood well by younger children and teens, nor is it exactly meant for them either and especially the manga, but that doesnt exactly count as animation. same with beserk
@mrtuberculosisscoliosis2417
5 ай бұрын
does Vivzie only watch South Park for the swearing and not for the social commentary and structured jokes that are present throughout the entirety of an episode
@artistanthony1007
5 ай бұрын
Yes, that is definitely a possible explanation.
@anlydaly5726
4 ай бұрын
It seems so. Yikes.
@angel_of_rust
4 ай бұрын
she's a progressive. what did you expect thank god i always knew that profanity was never the selling point of south park but is in fact just the bait
@Wallaceismyba
4 ай бұрын
@@angel_of_rustYou realize south park isn’t conservative either. Its just edgy
@angel_of_rust
4 ай бұрын
@@Wallaceismyba i didn't say anything about south park being conservative. i'm just saying the strength of south park is in what they say; the profanity is just bait.
@redbirdpfpn
4 ай бұрын
It's funny how EVERY relationship in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva boss is pre-established. Instead of actually developing a ship, they have it already exist and show the backstory and expect it to have the same affect.
@pastelqueenwudel
4 ай бұрын
Ah, what about Angel and Husk? You're right with other relationships tho.
@MistressoftheIceMoon
4 ай бұрын
I'm not sure what this comment is getting at. I feel (as a writer) that I don't see pre-establisbed relationships ENOUGH in media and that unless it's specifically romance driven, the romance subplot tends to get very annoying very fast. It's fine to establish what happened later on, that doesn't make it ineffective or bad.
@angel_of_rust
3 ай бұрын
@@MistressoftheIceMoon when have you ever seen a show drop important lore and character details on separate platforms outside the show? spongebob doesnt; chowder didn't; TAWOG and ATLA don't; TADC probably doesn't. Good stories show, not tell.
@redbirdpfpn
3 ай бұрын
@@MistressoftheIceMoon No, nothing is wrong with it- some of my favourite ships are pre-established. It's just the fact that quite literally every single ship in the universe is pre-established. Also, romance subplots can be incredibly interesting and even the best part of literature if they are well-written. The thing with having everything pre-established is that it lacks the gradual growth of a character's personality and arc.. when they cut right to the chase, it's hard to feel as strong for them or understand their depth, even when they do a few scenes with the "backstories". Side note, but I think it would've been super interesting if they had like some dead couple in hell and then they did the story of their life... but honestly, everything regarding world-building is portrayed nearly the exact same way as it would be if it was set in earth other than subtle details, so they've already dumped out most opportunities.
@AyatollahVulture
3 ай бұрын
@@pastelqueenwudel nah dawg that shit fucked up. i thought husk and angel were homies like Shepard and Wrex
@zeelovesu172
6 ай бұрын
38:14 this is why the “if _____ was written by Vivziepop” memes exist to begin with.
@JunKazamaFan
6 ай бұрын
It's pretty bad when the "Written by Vivziepop" memes are only SLIGHT exaggerations of her actual writing. It seemed like Alastor was an exception to this style... until Episode 5.
@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq
6 ай бұрын
@@JunKazamaFannifty doesn’t swear for now and carmilla
@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq
6 ай бұрын
@e92312If laughed at the memes that means I like vivziepops humor
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq Niffty may not be the best example, because she only gets a few lines of dialogue per episode.
@redpanda6497
6 ай бұрын
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq But we're not laughing because we find swearing funny, we're laughing because it's accurate and this demonstrates the too much swearing in Helluva/Hazbin perfectly.
@TheQipaoMistress
6 ай бұрын
It pisses me off when ppl say that the story would've been less packed if there was more episodes.... It's still the writers responsibility to write within the given episodes. Another question too, if the team was given more episodes, would they pace it out correctly? Or would they just jam more people and plots in there??
@ZethTheGoat666
6 ай бұрын
Fair point. I think more episodes and more calmer pacing as well as less characters would have made the show much better and easier to follow
@T_E_G
6 ай бұрын
Right?? 😭 Like have you seen HelluvaBoss?? Literally made by the same creator, FULL EPISODES, and the writing is just as messy And you could honestly do a lot with just eight episodes
@Cyburim
6 ай бұрын
>amazon originally gave her 12 episodes and then cut it short to 8 and 2 seasons 😂🎉
@commentbot9510
6 ай бұрын
I agree but at the same time 8 episodes hardly provides room for subplots. The show is clearly the type that wants to develop a lot of characters and is character driven. I feel like a lot of substance would be lost trying cut content to fit the plot into the 8 episode limitations. It may be a better story, but not the one the creator wanted to tell.
@KallaTheYapper347
6 ай бұрын
@commentbot9510 But Steven universe manages to do a lot within like 13-15 minutes.
@usermarongoany5616
5 ай бұрын
The idea of Adam being written as a mysogonistic, sexist and foulmouthed spoiled teenager felt like the most half assed attempt to make a irredeemable villain out of him. Only to basically swear as a sailor to the very end, into taunting the heroes into worshipping his nuts. Felt like making a villain as flat and hateable as possible, so that the heroes can defeat him and focus on the V's in the next season. If Vizzie can take advice and look into the Bible, i would have written Adam as a grown adult that hated mankind for being descedands of Cain, and still hating his son actions for killing his beloved Abel, beliving that all those who went to Hell, to be deserving for carrying his bloodline and choosing to commit sin. Cruel, but atleast understanding that those who get into heaven have earned it. But still, it leaves the thought of why God allows this genocide to occur, unless being killed by an angel allows one to reïncarnate again, and try to undo his mistakes again on earth. Just a thought i had really.
@xX_H3BIP1X3L_Xx
5 ай бұрын
See, that's the problem. You had a thought, Vivziepop didn't. In all seriousness though, you have a point there. I don't think Vivziepop bothered to refer to the bible and other related stories in order to write her story that's based in HELL. I think she just wanted to design cool demons. Maybe she read a paragraph on the mythological tale of Lilith, but that's it. It's pretty obvious when you realize most of the plots happening in the show have nothing to do with hell as a setting, and Adam really has nothing to do with his counterpart in the bible. Which is a shame because it could've been way more interesting than what they went with. Your idea is so much more interesting than whatever the show did.
@intensestare5027
5 ай бұрын
@xX_H3BIP1X3L_Xx vivziepop really isnt referencing the bible at all, mostly just texts and mythology thats based on the bible like Dantes inferno
@xX_H3BIP1X3L_Xx
5 ай бұрын
@@intensestare5027 Hold on. At what point did she reference Dante's Inferno?
@intensestare5027
5 ай бұрын
@@xX_H3BIP1X3L_Xx the rings of hell are a Dantes inferno thing
@xX_H3BIP1X3L_Xx
5 ай бұрын
@@intensestare5027 I mean that's giving her too much credit. The rings are really common knowledge
@choccaracco
4 ай бұрын
does anyone else notice how Charlie is literally the princess of hell yet no one respects her? She'd be on the top of the social chain yet no one respects her, I think it would have been cool to see Charlie struggle with maybe being self centered, and believing everyone should just..listen to her. The show literally brings up how Charlie should use her princess power more and it just..doesn't work? It was a really confusing scene because in all logic- Charlie should be able to just order people around, it feels like she's supposed to be an underdog character but really isn't
@akirakhiannok1317
3 ай бұрын
I've read somewhere that claimed Vivziepop said that it's because in hell people don't really respect royalty. Not sure if that was canon or they just use Vivziepop's name though
@websterston
3 ай бұрын
Yes! A self centered optimist who is misguided by her own savior/hero complex. The girl who gives herself the responsibility of having to ‘deal with burden of demons’ (poor girl). OR maybe her pre existing optimism gets challenged in season 2 where many instances of hell’s corruption make her colder and colder throughout the series. It’d also be cool to build on a parallel between Alastor and Charlie. Maybe there’s multiple scenes where Charlie judges Alastor for his way of thinking and doing things, only to find out that her methods and thought process are similar to his. (i.e: MAYBE IM THE MONSTAAAAAA) edit: I’ve only watched the Hazbin Pilot (bc im broke) and both seasons of HB. I’m talking out of my ass here, so take it with a grain lol.
@yurisei6732
3 ай бұрын
tfw you want the story of a likeable underdog but the aspirational aesthetics of royalty.
@websterston
3 ай бұрын
@@yurisei6732 *cough* stolas *cough*
@Aro9313
2 ай бұрын
It's Hell. Its denizens aren't exactly known for being respectful.
@Jay-gurl
6 ай бұрын
Sadly, the way Vivzie behaves online with her mash paragraphs to defend her writing, saying we just don't understand or that shes use to people hating her stuff, makes me feel Vivz is too prideful in her writing. A lot of us fans have been saying Vivzie cant take constructive criticism since 2019 and its only gotten worse. If you have to explain your series outside the show itself to explain lore, character personality or the world building, than you as a writer have to be able to admit when you missed the mark AS A WRITER. Not explain how we are wrong for not seeing what you didnt bother to showcase.
@redpanda6497
6 ай бұрын
@fuyukiryujin3723 The problem is that the things that need to be told are missing and ones that shouldn't be told is spood fed to us. It's not our fault.
@nevaehhamilton3493
6 ай бұрын
The worst part is that there are ass-kissers online trying to defend her saying that "she has a lot on her plate" as an excuse for her inability to handle criticism or even light jokes about her writing choices. You can't excuse poor internet etiquette. They're even on this platform as we speak.
@Jay-gurl
6 ай бұрын
@fuyukiryujin3723 It's not impatience to expect a visual media like Hazbin or Helluva Boss to show details rather than explain than on another platform. The rule of "show, don't tell" is as old as writing itself. I'm okay not receiving all the answers to a series. Even some things revealed later through other platforms is okay if it's not important to the series. (Steven Universe for example saying when a character is ace coded or on the spectrum) But key points to a character personality? Their motive? That should be shown in the show and Vivz doesn't do that. She posts on Twitter details like that and that is bad writing.
@Madjichen
6 ай бұрын
She hasn't been taking criticism long before the pilot came out. I feel like she never got taught how to receive criticism when she went to SVA. Just constant praise and yes-men especially for having a fan base since her Zoophobia days. I don't hate Vivzie. In fact, I used to be such a fan of her work but the way she's behaved towards people and how she's used her fan base to send harassment to any critics- it's all made me turn off from her work and makes anyone who works professionally in the industry, not want to work with her.
@nevaehhamilton3493
6 ай бұрын
@@Madjichen I call her yes men "asskissers", because they essentially deluded themselves into believing she had good intentions, when really, they're just selfish.
@mojyoqueen350
6 ай бұрын
You know who had REAL daddy issues? Zuko from ATLA.
@durandol
6 ай бұрын
That's rough, buddy.
@VideosGalacticos
6 ай бұрын
And that is a understatement
@anarchistsworkshop
5 ай бұрын
Damn right he did. Made his redemption arc super intense.
@vitoc8454
5 ай бұрын
Ozai: "I can shoot two lightning bolts at the same time" [Solar Eclipse] Zuko: "I can use two swords at the same time."
@allorfh2495
4 ай бұрын
@@vitoc8454 that was such an intense scene.
@savage_aquamarine5100
6 ай бұрын
I used Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss as a basis on WHAT NOT TO DO when writing my stories and I ended up learning how to make more deep, understandable storylines that made me realise just how surface level Vivziepop's works were.
@savage_aquamarine5100
6 ай бұрын
The main things I learnt were... At the beginning, introduce your main characters and the plot in a natural but noteworthy way. Do not add too many characters, only bring new characters if they are useful to the story. Give characters dynamics and multifaceted personalities, (such as a positive and negative trait.) Give characters backstories that explain how they act, introduce facts about the world building in a natural way. Do not back track a characters development or personality for the sake of plot or a "funny" joke. Do not derail the plot of the series, the series must start calm and simple before slowly becoming more serious and adding bigger ideas. Keep crude or shocking humor to a minimum, so as to add a bigger surprise factor. Everyone action a characters takes must fit their personality and how they'd act. Do not overcomplicate character design, keep them simple while showcasing their personality. (Use colour theory, symbolism and unique fashion styles for better effect) Keep the pacing slow and steady, do not throw big ideas in the first season. And the biggest thing I learnt... SHOW DONT TELL!!! These are all things that Vivziepops works really struggle in the things it does which is why they aren't that good, it's all flashy style over (if not lack of) meaningful substance and has potential to be great but the writing falls flat. But you can enjoy it tho! 😅
@Jdudec367
6 ай бұрын
@@savage_aquamarine5100 I agree here ALL good advice! Except well....a series doesn`t HAVE to start light-hearted that is up the creator and what tone they wanna go for. Also I don`t see how Vivzie doesn`t do any of that correctly though, like the writing is bad at times but other times it`s actually pretty good.
@kanrafingerguns
6 ай бұрын
@@Jdudec367I think a better form of this advice is to not put your darkest atmosphere at the start. You can start at any point on the scale, but you don't want to start at the end of it; leave yourself room to progress. And if you do go dark at the start, recognize you are dealing with an audience that isn't invested in the story yet, so you will need to work with that.
@Jdudec367
6 ай бұрын
@@kanrafingerguns Well yeah that is true. Hazbin didn`t really do that though, I would say it did get darker as it went om.
@SpecterVonBaren
6 ай бұрын
She sees the great beats of writing but she doesn't understand how other writers got there with their own works.
@Haru-spicy
4 ай бұрын
a cool plot would have been a "crabs in a bucket" scenario where the truly despicable and unredeemable scumbags of hell band together to prevent other citizens from being redeemed, out of envy/spite against heaven/a desire to bolster their own forces.
@Randomdude2003
6 ай бұрын
Viv can’t accept criticism tbh .. and a lot of people have gave very good criticism
@gamingmoth4542
6 ай бұрын
Honestly, she’s also had to put up with a lot of stupid criticism too. There are a lot of people out there who just unconsciously hate her and throw out criticism like “I hate how the gay characters are flamboyant” as well as “I’m going to randomly call Vivzi an AntiSemite and claim Mimzi is a Jewish stereotype” (despite there being LITERALLY no indication that Mimzi is Jewish) and “Vaggie’s name sounds like Vagina”. I’m guessing that with so much stupid criticism built up over the years she tends to be very defensive to any type of criticism. I mean… If you had people making false claims about “things you did wrong” for years, wouldn’t you blow off any claim that “you did something wrong” and just kinda calk it up as “more people making false claims about you”? EDIT: And trust me, I’m NOT saying I think Vivzi’s writing is perfect (I mostly like the show, but there are still a lot of things I do NOT like). I’m just trying to explain why she probably gets defensive about criticism.
@naganut9718
6 ай бұрын
I feel like that's built up due to the constant bullshit she goes through
@dardanbytyqi2742
6 ай бұрын
There’d lots of criticism to be given to HH,this video has none of it & the more silly lazy critiques a creator receives the less they’ll want to hear it
@Randomdude2003
6 ай бұрын
@@gamingmoth4542 nah some of the criticisms but I think it’s just them flat out hating I think she should ignore those
@gamingmoth4542
6 ай бұрын
@@Randomdude2003 not “some” of the criticism man. MOST of the criticism is just “I unconditionally hate the show because *insert reason here*”. I think the issue is that it’s a show that has specific tastes. It’s not “bad”, it’s just something that if you don’t like some key features, you’re not gonna like the show. Oddly enough, I think Pyrocynical said it best. The show has Gay People, Angels and Demons, the Color Red, Profanity and Singing. If you hate those things, you’ll hate the show. If you love those things you’ll love the show. If you’re indifferent to those things, you’ll probably like the show (or at least appreciate the show). I like Angels and Demons and the Color Red, I’m indifferent towards singing and gay people and I’m desensitized to profanity so I kinda like the show, but I could understand that it may not be of someone else’s taste. The problem is that for some people it is “not of their taste” and instead of just ignoring it (like any normal person would) they decided to spread a massive hate campaign about how “It’s the worst thing to ever exist” and “anyone who likes it is a horrible person”. And trust me, I’m not one to say that “No shows ever deserve haters” (The Velma Show deserved the all the unconditional hate it got), I just think that Hazbin is not one of those shows. It’s hard to give legitimate criticism for something when a bunch of people who unconditionally hate the show are louder and more obnoxious.
@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood
5 ай бұрын
Don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I think another major problem with the show is the characters are way too similar to each other! They all seemingly fall into one of three categories: a) The character is extremely quirky/fruity/flamboyant, but they secretly harbor a dark past, almost always involving familial issues. b) They’re cartoonishly evil/psychotic/edgy, but they’re actually good at heart, despite having killed numerous people without remorse. c) A one-dimensional asshole who likes putting the protagonists down just because they can. Furthermore, a ton of the characters don’t seem like they would fit in with the indescribable horrors that one would expect in, y’know, Hell. The only main characters who kinda do are the overlords, and even so, they’re actually pretty polite and sometimes even courteous. In fact, all the overlords ever seem to do is sit around twirling their mustaches, maybe occasionally killing some disposable henchmen.
@blackchickiedee7
5 ай бұрын
Yeah I don't like how Alastor was reduced to being like everyone else. I know the show is trying to cover it up with "oooo, but he's so scary and mysterious" but honestly it's shallow - there's no substance to Alastor anymore because turns out "but he's on a leash too, feel sorry for him because he wants to be free, he's a victim too UwU" like, at this point who HAVEN'T we felt sorry for? And I swear if all of his "pain and suffering" comes from having daddy issues too I'm going to lose it lol He's just a pretentious edge lord and the show is trying to manipulate people into thinking he's such a deep and compelling character. And the lack of villain variety sucks. I was hoping that since the show's setting is hell we would be getting more sinister, conniving antagonists but no, all of them are just "haha goofy, they make sex jokes too, they're silly and quirky too and spaz out like a bunch of 14 year olds" is this really all the creator could do after ten years of working on this and these characters? At this point I don't even think she was working on the story that whole time
@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood
5 ай бұрын
@@blackchickiedee7 That’s kinda what I noticed too. Almost everyone in the show is a victim of some sort. Even when someone who seems like the cause of every victim comes about, the show writers feel the need to give them as many sympathy points as possible. Sometimes, a villain who’s evil just because they’re f***ed in the head can work perfectly. Emperor Palpatine didn’t need a tragic backstory to be compelling. Villains like Palpatine are awesome because they’re the ones who are responsible for others’ tragic backstories. Edit: And no, I don’t think Adam counts because I’m referring to overarching villains, not a disposable, one-dimensional character that only serves to give season one an easily solvable conflict.
@blackchickiedee7
5 ай бұрын
@@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood And even another great example of a villain who was just messed up because he enjoyed it was Jack Horner from PiB: the last wish. Dude literally had a fine childhood and he still turned out to be a jerk. How in the world did Dreamworks freakin Dreamworks able to pull off three types of villains in one movie and yet HH we get same ole archetype? If Alastor had a tragic backstory as a kid, fine, I'll accept that, he was a mixed man during the 20th century, so I'm sure he experienced his own hell. But that's already been done before with other characters who have issues with their dad. I honestly thought Alastor was chaotic neutral because he understood what he did in life and wasn't interested in being redeemed. Either because he felt he didn't deserve it or that he had accepted the consequences of his actions and he was fine with that. I thought Valentino and Vox were going to be more sinister and sneaky. I thought Lucifer was not going to care about Charlie's goal because he's literally PRIDE PERSONIFIED, and was in cahoots with heaven somehow but no. All we got was: 1. Ambiguous sassy deer boi 2. Basic abuser 3. Over the top Alastor palette swap 4. Goofy dad who has depression Am I in the twilight zone? What is going on??
@blknmongl342
5 ай бұрын
@@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood Don't forget one of the best villains ever written in fiction, Judge Holden. Guy is super educated and incredibly talents, yet commits some of the most disgustingly vile acts a villain could commit. And from what we know, he seemed to have a good upbringing.
@artistanthony1007
5 ай бұрын
@@blackchickiedee7My pfp is a true form for X.A.N.A., the main villain from Code Lyoko, you can guess why I picked & kept him for a pfp.
@vgmoral
6 ай бұрын
Ironically, the writers need to read the Bible. They would actually discover a plot for their show and the difference between heaven and hell.
@DrAngelKins
6 ай бұрын
The Bible is a gold mine for stories
@MASTEROFEVIL
5 ай бұрын
The bible is literally the worlds oldest book in human history. My guess is that they don't want actual religion in a show about Hell. Which is ironic
@vgmoral
5 ай бұрын
@@MASTEROFEVIL They probably all think Christianity is bigoted and oppressive. I doubt anyone in their studio is willing to read the Bible or touch one with a ten foot pole, and that's why their plot is a mess of whatever they could substitute theology with.
@CDizzle3270
5 ай бұрын
Epic of Gilgamesh homes@@MASTEROFEVIL
@itachiaurion3198
5 ай бұрын
It also has so many plot holes that modern writting would blush at such atrocities.
@rnlansdownemobile
3 ай бұрын
Vivi's writings in a nutshell: 1. Swearing 2. Swearing 3. Even more swearing 4. ??? 5. Random violence 6. Profit?
@LegoDrDoom
2 ай бұрын
You forgot sad backstory sex joke and just everything bad
@jazzyqueen4980
2 ай бұрын
And daddy issues
@androidps1440
2 ай бұрын
gay sex
@toplel1860
2 ай бұрын
You forgot forceful gay characters that throw how gay they are in the audience's face with a hint of the writer's political views tossed in to spice things up .
@mrslinkydragon9910
2 ай бұрын
Dick jokes too
@chrissiemudpuppy1179
6 ай бұрын
Allegedly Sir Pentious is based on someone Vivziepop hates. Which means Vivziepop accidentally made him the best character
@KrymsonScale
6 ай бұрын
Big if true, but he was always the best character to me.
@redpanda6497
5 ай бұрын
I haven't heard about it. When did she say that?
@mesaplayer9636
5 ай бұрын
And also made him the first resident of hell to go to heaven?
@poyokirby
5 ай бұрын
Why would she make someone she hates be the only one that got redemption? I feel like this is a fake rumor.
@astarteswillum5259
5 ай бұрын
I feel like Adam was based on someone she knows.
@Omegaphoenix128
6 ай бұрын
The problem that modern cartoons have in regards to immaturity is balance. If everything is sex, violence, and slapstick, it loses its edge from over exposure. Violence (and ultra violence) can be incredibly powerful in demonstrating the brutality of a location or era, but if everything is brutal and not taking with any real downtime, it just becomes violence for the sake of violence and loses its meaning. Same with cursing, sexuality, or any other more adult orientated content. So if VP is comfortable with swearing, thats fine. If she wants it in there, thats fine. But what she isnt picking up on is there has to be a balance. If you go hard on swearing in one scene, you need other scenes to decompress from that.
@ZealothPL
6 ай бұрын
Why? I love how all the "media literate" people come in and demand someone follows their arbitrary rules...without providing any actual arguments
@existence9994
6 ай бұрын
@@ZealothPL Except they're making a valid point; otherwise people wouldn't be bashing on the series about the excessive swearing with little to no weight behind it
@YARGGG_GG
5 ай бұрын
@@ZealothPL it sorta goes without saying. violence, sex, foul language, anything with any kind of intensity needs to be balanced out or it becomes monotonous and you become numb to it. it's why the best horror media still have lightheartedness; it makes the horror pop out more. it's a matter of contrast, if we want to talk about it artistically. rather than trying to invalidate people, you can just say you enjoy the swearing.
@Da_bear-ij9gm
5 ай бұрын
If you were literate you’d know the “arbitrary rules” contain the arguments for the critique
@spacebassist
5 ай бұрын
@@ZealothPL "arbitrary rules" exist for a reason. we've been making stories for who knows how long, surely somebody would end up noticing what works and what doesn't. if that wasn't the case then everybody would be a writer and all stories would be good (but they aren't) my favourite part of star wars was when they had a lightsaber fight for the entire movie my favourite part of saving private ryan was when all i could hear was machine gun fire and artillery for the whole runtime my favourite part of any story is the climax happening from start to finish. i love stories that don't take a second to breathe and give the viewer a second to take in the story basically, if someone swears all the time, it doesn't matter if they swear during a painful moment. it just doesn't register because their behaviour isn't noticeably different if someone rarely swears, it's a surprise when they finally do, it tells you that they've hit their limit and that can be powerful in a story if someone swears occasionally, that's normal. if they start to swear a lot, they're also at their breaking point
@saulgoodman559
6 ай бұрын
Alastor's mystery, and his deal with Charlie, is going to be so lame. Vivzie already gave everything away--there's no more allure to his character. He's nice and helpful to Charlie? He's actually an evil villain! He wants to betray Charlie and control her! Well, Vivzie already gave away his true personality and motives. We find out about him through other characters--Mimzy especially, who gives away 'oh he's actually a harmless kitten after a few drinks!' Viv likes tweets about how Al needs to do something out of love in order to win a fight, which is why he lost to Adam apparenty lmao. She also mentioned in livestreams she loves 'bad guys who are good at heart'. He's not betraying anyone, that character is just as you said--jangling keys to get the fans' attention. At least Pilot Alastor came across as a real Devil archetype with a hidden motive.
@DrAngelKins
6 ай бұрын
Don't mind bad guys being good at heart, but what's bad about them???? Like what should we fear or be scared? It's super odd to make someone scary if they don't display them right.
@Jdudec367
6 ай бұрын
How has she given everything away? There is still allure. Well him being evil was meant to be obvious, it`s his true motive and goal that we don`t fully understand yet. Or WHO he is on a contract with. Mimzy is saying that cuz she is friends with him she doesn't know everything about him though. No that isn't why he lost to Adam wdym> Eh....no he may betray Charlie with his personality and everything. Nah he hasdepth too annd is not just key jangling. Pilot Alastor was just as shady.
@Jdudec367
6 ай бұрын
@@DrAngelKins His power and backstory and him being a killer who suddenly just killed people and mysteriously got power, him owning souls, etc.
@blacksesamecandies
6 ай бұрын
Alastor comes off as a character that is being force-fed by the creators to just be "cool" without really showing much. He sings, he has some creepy faces or random powers but he's just in my opinion, a big mystery box with little substance. He feels created solely to intrigue audiences but just, isn't fun at all to watch. It actually baffles me how many people cling to him when his writing is the most empty of all. Even a side character like Carmilla proved she was more badass and had more motives than Alastor did. I get the whole aspect is "Woooo a mystery!" but he just doesn't have anything going other than that. Vox is far more charming despite having a fraction of the screen time.
@T_E_G
6 ай бұрын
@@DrAngelKins right? Like are they an antagonist? Villain? What makes them evil? Or are they just another background/supporting character?? ;//
@scifiwifi_
5 ай бұрын
Honestly seeing Charlie as Vivziepop's self insert makes a lot of sense. To Vivzie, whether she knows it or not, Charlie is her, so whenever anyone criticises her show and especially Charlie, it feels like an attack.
@poogissploogis
3 ай бұрын
True. She even did say she relates most to Charlie (and Vaggie)
@Jdudec367
22 күн бұрын
Eh no I doubt it. Like Charlie really isn't her, only similarities are them being bi and having blonde hair. How do you know it feels like an attack to her when that happens?
@trypticon8619
6 ай бұрын
“Adult” animated shows always remind me of a certain quote, restrictions bring creativity, with kids shows, you can’t show in depth violence or ham fist in deep topics, instead you have to allude to them, letting the audience’s imagination fill the blanks in The best example I can think of is from gravity falls, quote Bill cipher: You two stay here, I have some children I need to make into corpses” That line is so much more threatening than anything I’ve heard in years
@vitoc8454
5 ай бұрын
Meanwhile it's hilarious when some kids shows shy away from depicting "real guns" and give cops laser pistols
@NeyamStar
5 ай бұрын
Ikkrrr
@charlesmartiniii1405
5 ай бұрын
I mean yall say this, but there are so many unrestricted anime that is just as creative if not more
@Kidneyjoe42
5 ай бұрын
@@charlesmartiniii1405 That's due to cultural differences. In the US there has been this idea for quite a while now that animation is inherently childish and a less serious form of art. This idea doesn't hurt actual kids' shows as much because the biases of the writers aren't at odds with what they're creating. But in adult animation it results in writers being hesitant to really commit to making something mature. This perception isn't as prevalent or as extreme in some other places, with Japan being probably the most well known example.
@BartlebyScrivener-oz6mk
4 ай бұрын
Or like Azula telling Zuko she's about to celebrate becoming an only child
@EGV88
6 ай бұрын
I'm a fan of the cartoon, but we need to bring forth the critical voices.
@tree2641
6 ай бұрын
that’s what I’m sayinggggg!!!
@Casterisks
6 ай бұрын
Too bad the creator hates criticism.
@floofycupkim1197
6 ай бұрын
Lols. Imagine TKO and vaggie meeting 39:20
@usunposta915
6 ай бұрын
i feel like its way too hard for a lot of people to admit that they can enjoy an imperfect piece of media. i like the show, the songs are bangers, but it has its flaws that the creator straight up refuses to believe in. like, its okay, but could be better!
@Nopeasaurus
6 ай бұрын
@@usunposta915 I feel the same way. It's imperfect but it has its good moments.
@Enat1510
6 ай бұрын
Vivienne's Writing is for 14 year old teens who wanna watch 18+ content and feel cool about it.
@FPSHITareTEMPORARYPUELLAMAGIis
6 ай бұрын
Basically newgroud
@SodaFrizz666
6 ай бұрын
People keep saying it's like she made a show out of self indulgent Tumblr ocs and all that. It's funny you say that too because that's really what the whole show feels like (also, its just hard to take a cast full of furries in hell very seriously)
@flowerbloom5782
6 ай бұрын
Thank you.
@thehorrorarchivers7347
6 ай бұрын
I could not agree more man remember primal an actual mature show i sure do rememeber but hey since it does not have nice looking characters it deserves to be forgotten.
@3SCAPER00M13
6 ай бұрын
@@thehorrorarchivers7347 Primal was awesome. I watch that show very often.
@TheApoke
6 ай бұрын
Wow I feel like this was a really good critique! One thing I'd change about the show, is in the final episode when Alastor battles Adam. Alastor says "I'm going to end your fucking life" it felt out of character. I wish he said something like "I'm going to make you the star of my next broadcast" it would make the lines more subtle and classy
@avivastudios2311
6 ай бұрын
Nice. It's like we understand the characters better than Viv.
@phatcarno8332
6 ай бұрын
Viv seems to think that cursing is threatening when it just seems jovial and childish. What you wrote has actual thought put into it and evokes emotion because of what it implies but nope cursing is way better!!1! Lets go cursing!!
@blackchickiedee7
6 ай бұрын
It's why I feel Alastor is just a try hard edge lord in a suit as opposed to a radio host from the twentieth century. He acts like everyone else and most of his dialog doesn't fit from the time period he's from
@chatdonut
6 ай бұрын
@@blackchickiedee7 yeah I wish he was a more subtle, classy gentleman, it would contrast with his horrific actions. (we can keep the sarcasm but tone it down a little)
@QueenofTNT
6 ай бұрын
An idea I remember having while watching the memes about how much the characters swearing is to have Alastor swear, but only very infrequently and it’s almost always bleeped out or censored in some way, sort of reflecting the older communications standards of the era he’s supposed to be from. Then the one time you do let him swear uncensored, it’s during a moment shit is hitting the fan, which would really, REALLY drive home the impact of the scene itself. A swear becomes a thousand times more funny/impactful if it’s used sparingly or for a character it could be considered OOC for. The opposite way also holds, a character that swears a lot in casual conversation dropping the crass language and speaking perfectly with an unnervingly calm tone is a great way of communicating that this character is going to do something big (from anger, sadness, grief, etc) but Vivzie’s characters just...always swear. All the fucking time. There’s no reprieve or importance in it. It’s just a waste of a storytelling medium you COULD be using to communicate information about your character’s personalities.
@0aghost0
6 ай бұрын
vivizie's writing is literally just "its 2013, im 14, just joined tumblr and am now an atheist and also hate god now". im 22, its an adult animation and yet i feel too old for it
@pemdemica1712
5 ай бұрын
Why is everything black and white to you? Just because it's a critique on religion, doesn't make it a declaration of hatred to God.
@spacebassist
5 ай бұрын
@@pemdemica1712 but they didn't say that. they're saying that the show's complete lack of subtlety about heaven being "not so good" is the level of writing you'd expect from a 14 year old writing their very first story, who's also rebelling against the idea of religion in a juvenile way they also didn't give their own opinion on religion, the comment is a critique of how the show's writing depicts heaven and hell, so that's vivzie's opinion, not 0aghost0's opinion
@roxi64
5 ай бұрын
Well and some people enjoy it for this reason I guess? It definitely feels like 2013 tumblr and that is WHY I love it. It gives me feelings of nostalgia and I am sure that many of my friends like the show for the same reason. The show doesn't need to be perfect to be enjoyed!
@frickcomments
5 ай бұрын
Nice PFP
@shushiiiiiiiiii
5 ай бұрын
@@roxi64well, definitely it doesn't need to be perfect or even good to be enjoyed, but critics are valid exactly because of that lack of professionalism in writing and such. i say that as someone who hates half of the cast of characters, plot and overall concept (too generic for me), but some stuff do amuse me in the show, like some characters and... two songs yeah I'm not really making a point but what I'm trying to say is that I'm mostly neutral, is just that the show focuses on characters that i despise so i can't really enjoy it + i am scared of finishing it because of the voudou symbols i definitely do not want to be cursed or vomit blood, my life is already a mess and i do not need for daemons to make it worse
@Luatheog
5 ай бұрын
im sick of of the trope of "angel bad demon good" and the "SaTaN iS tHe GoOd GuY"
@sonoio869
5 ай бұрын
Its worse since the demons are still bad but depicted as innocent victims despite them eating each others every day of the week.
@Dandelions479
4 ай бұрын
People call traditional tropes awful but fail to realize that subversion IS a trope- and it's not always done right either. In fact, traditional tropes are typically more easy to build off than subversion imo.
@seaguts7496
4 ай бұрын
@@sonoio869 Especially with the biblical depictions of them so blatantly wanting pain and suffering among others, so I don't understand how anybody can pick that up and just make them ALL look heroic (ex. legion, or just take any possession story from modern writing like The Exorcist or something from the warren's exorcisms)
@SmileyEmps
4 ай бұрын
At this point the characters in the show are just coincidentally named the same as demons and live in a coincidentally similarly named world because they share no relation or character traits with the angels or demons they are meant to represent
@seaguts7496
4 ай бұрын
@@SmileyEmps yeah fr 😭 how the fuck is that thing "lord of the flies" when it's just a jelly furry with bee wings
@dianasour69
6 ай бұрын
Tbh I kinda wanna see Hazbin hotel pop up in the Hotel Hell series where Gordon Ramsey checks out the hotel and changes it. Edit: Thanks for 1k likes!!!
@RoamingTrend
6 ай бұрын
That is a great premise! 🤣
@cakefrosting6451
6 ай бұрын
Plus points is Gordon Ramsey is known to get very vulgar against supposed professionals who are suppose to know their craft
@realdragon
6 ай бұрын
"How the fuck this chicken is raw when this whole place is on fire!"
@duncanharrell5009
6 ай бұрын
Gordon: *Holds bread pieces against Charlie* What are you!? Charlie: I’m an idiot sandwich.
@manboy4720
6 ай бұрын
so is it just actual gordon ramsay, or is it like a chef demon who went to hell because he was so terrifying?
@DiesIrae-yr5wo
6 ай бұрын
I think Charlie's main daddy issues come from the fact that since her dad was depressed, she lacked support and time spent with him, and overall feels his absence. But... The show doesn't show any of this in a cohesive way, instead turning to lame exposition and refuting it's own narrative.
@sdhng5441
6 ай бұрын
You're right, Lucifer's character isn't cohesive within the role he gets in the show. I think this can be attributed to the show's general lack of focus and wanting to do too many things at the same time. It tried to depict Lucifer a distant, neglectful father, a well-meaning but incompetent parent, and a loving dad who would do anything for his daughter... all these within the same character. It's like the writer wanted to showcase all these different interpretations, but this isn't how a coherent plot looks like.
@DiesIrae-yr5wo
6 ай бұрын
@@sdhng5441 That sounds right. It's really disappointing that the narrative about Charlie and Lucifer was taken in such a direction considering a lot of people can relate to situations like their's.
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
@@sdhng5441 Looking at what was said about Lucifer in the pilot, it feels like they changed his personality without changing his relationship to Charlie, so the conflict between them ends up feeling like it doesn't have a clear source.
@pedropradacarciofi2517
4 ай бұрын
It does show it in a cohesive way, in fact it shows it without any exposition You just need to have your eyes open while watching
@snorpington5910
4 ай бұрын
What's the point of it being centered in Hell/Heaven? This story could easily be told in like a rundown mafia city with Charlie being the mayors daughter, Vaggie being a runaway rich kid, etc. Hell is portrayed as a city, it doesn't feel like it's a horrible place which I guess is the point, but having civilzations and districts makes it just seem like Earth with red paint. There's no solid reason that they need to be demons and angels. Nemo had to take place underwater because the obstacles don't make sense if they were human. I admire Vivzie for her hard work, but damn she needs to learn to k¡// her darlings when she writes and develops characters, more specifically her Zoophobia OCs, they stick out like sore thumbs and they do not fit in with the cast despite being the same art style.
@Sr.BulletBill
4 ай бұрын
Yeah, I remember reading a comment on another video saying that it's easy to forget that characters like Angel Dust or Sir Pentious are dead humans rather than naturally born demons, since their human lives are never mentioned in the series. Hazbin Hotel treats Hell more like a fantasy world than an afterlife.
@SmileyEmps
4 ай бұрын
She doesn’t even bother using established character traits from the biblical figures she rips off
@Micakocho345
3 ай бұрын
"she needs to learn to kill her darlings when she writes and develops characters" gege: And I took that personally.
@JordanShipp-w1d
3 ай бұрын
How does it not feel like a horrible place? Were you not paying attention? People were killing each other, torturing each other, and fighting in the streets constantly in the show.
@snorpington5910
3 ай бұрын
@@JordanShipp-w1d Yeah bad things happen in hell, but it's either taken 100% seriously or as a joke. heaven may not have absurd violence, but they won't be accepted by the angels, and could easily be sent back down or hurt. hell just feels like a bad part of town. no one seems like they're suffering for all eternity, it's just earth 2 but red and furry.
@zuu876
4 ай бұрын
i find the most funny issue with hellaverse is that there's no reason for it to be even set in hell. like you could easily set in in just any other 'verse' and it would still make no difference. because as a setting, hell doesn't give anything to the show except figures to base characters off of.
@Sr.BulletBill
4 ай бұрын
Yeah, I remember reading a comment on another video saying that it's easy to forget that characters like Angel Dust or Sir Pentious are dead humans rather than naturally born demons, since their human lives are never mentioned in the series. Hazbin Hotel treats Hell more like a fantasy world than an afterlife.
@SmileyEmps
4 ай бұрын
The characters don’t even share basic character traits with the demons and angels they’re meant to be. Adam is one of 2 original sinners, who should, if anything, be super understanding of the sinners, Lucifer is portrayed as good even though his 2 memorable actions in the bible were torturing Job and trying to tempt Jesus. The writers even went and removed God from the story entirely, having the "elders of heaven" be in charge instead of him.
@VEGA_173
4 ай бұрын
doom's hell would laugh its lovecraftian ass off at this shows pathetic excuse of "hell"
@lazyquahog9385
3 ай бұрын
@@VEGA_173same with Barlowe’s Inferno
@leviticusprime4904
2 ай бұрын
@@lazyquahog9385now I think about why wasn't this show based in the Buddhist interpretation of hell?
@Poached_Teeth
6 ай бұрын
I love how having many writers is a common occurrence in bad shows. You know who also has too many writers? High Guardian Spice.
@bongus840
6 ай бұрын
It all connects
@papkinn
6 ай бұрын
I mean have you ever been in a group project at school? It's either one person doing all the work without needed feedback from others or a complete chaos with everyone arguing, that's basically what happens when there's 10 writers on a project too.
@Acidburn1155
6 ай бұрын
It's almost like there can be too many writers, oh but don't worry, the WGA only demanded between 6-12 writers minimum as part of their conditions for ending the strike... So prepare for a lot more bad shows made by too many people who don't even need to be there. Surely the extra cost of those useless employees won't matter to production? Ah who cares tho, I'ma just be sityting here singing my song. "Too many cooks will spoil the broth!"
@Acidburn1155
6 ай бұрын
@@papkinn Can't wait for the WGA's minimum of 6-12 writers per show eh? I kNoW i sUrE cAnT!
@alex_zetsu
6 ай бұрын
Well it didn't help most of the HGS writers were bad writers. more money could turn garbage into pretty animated garbage which is worth at least something. More seriously, some shows actually just rewrite whole episodes and fire writers. This is sometimes even done after episodes have been animated and therefore paid for. At least 7 shows I know of did this to their first 3 "original" unaired episodes. So maybe this show could be fixed by nuking its original episodes, hiring new staff, and then making something different which would not be cheap. If at least 3 episodes were already animated and I saw this dumpster fire as a producer, I'd be seriously tempted to do just that, but I also understand the argument of "well, it sucks, let's just air is anyways and we know people will hate it but maybe we can get enough pollical correctness police fans to break even"
@Rohtix
6 ай бұрын
It feels like Viv has so many ideas and she's so excited to get them out, but has almost no patience to do so. It feels kinda like fan fiction writing.
@SmileyEmps
4 ай бұрын
It basically is, she just took the setting and characters off Christian folklore, threw out all previous characterization they had, made them shitty redesigns, and inserted her own OCs
@sourcefreak7997
2 ай бұрын
I saw fanfics with better writing, HH/HB included.
@Justmyselfyt
6 ай бұрын
As a fan of the show all of these sins felt really nice in some videos people were basicaly just yelling"THE SHOW IS BAD" for 10 minutzes this was pretty good and felt good to hear. As someone who has an idea of a show this really helped, and it gave somehow a reallity check on my own ideas. Now I just want to rewritte Hazbin Hotel
@RoamingTrend
6 ай бұрын
Do it. It would be a good exercise. Re-writing shows or using the same world can help understand what research one needs to do whenever you write any story.
@gelibrva472
6 ай бұрын
@RoamingTrend I work with new writer and my number 1 rule is research research and more research
@EllaBArt-zp1wn
6 ай бұрын
@@gelibrva472saaame. I spent almost 2 years of research for mystory so could give my characters a good character design. Give rules of the world building and focusing on just one consistent theme
@christopherbravo1813
6 ай бұрын
I kinda want to rewrite the show as well. Of course, one stumbling block is that I keep coming up with a myriad of conflicting ideas regarding how to do so.
@TheHylianJuggalo
6 ай бұрын
My favorite observation was a comment that got memed into oblivion: Show is set in hell 0 racists, nazis, or anything a modern politically obsessed person complains about..... But loads, and loads, and loads of gay people. Hmmmm.... 🤔
@ScabeiathraxUK
6 ай бұрын
This comment seems to be based on the assumption that only bad people go to hell, which the text of the show explicitly refutes. The decision of who goes to heaven vs hell is outlined in the show as being unknown and seemingly arbitrary. Both heaven and hell contain both good people and murderous maniacs. Anyone who wanted to claim that the show is saying gay people are evil because they're in the show's hell hasn't actually absorbed any of Hazbin's heavy-handed writing, meaning they've probably not actually watched it.
@TheHylianJuggalo
6 ай бұрын
If you follow Orthodoxy and Catholicism, which are the original denominations (Catholics specifically), this is not true. In the faith, there exists Purgatory, which is a 'midspace' souls go if they were not properly baptized OR are awaiting judgement for Heaven or Hell. The religion that this show is fundamentally BUILT ON defies that, and I'm not even Catholic.@@ScabeiathraxUK
@ScabeiathraxUK
6 ай бұрын
@TheHylianJuggalo What religion the show is based on matters less for context here than the literal text of the show. The text of the show very explicitly contradicts the assumption that heaven = good people and hell = bad people. A piece can be about a dogma and also subvert that dogma. The show's writing is, as this video points out, heavy handed. The only way to walk away from the show with a "hell = bad people, therefore gays = bad people" take is to not watch the show.
@TheHylianJuggalo
6 ай бұрын
Doesn't matter "What the show is". What matters is staying accurate to what Hell actually is. Doom stays more religiously accurate than this.@@ScabeiathraxUK
@audreyharris7643
6 ай бұрын
@@TheHylianJuggalothis show takes inspiration from religion and use's it in its own way 100% accuracy was never required
@Longknife
6 ай бұрын
Weird choice to include Bojack in the montage of "shows relying on swearsies as comedy." It very specifically has one F-word per season to try and maintain the seriousness of it's usage, and I don't believe it's ever dropped in a comedy scene.
@larsen_draws8430
6 ай бұрын
I found the arguments of BoJack having bad writing really dumb. I feel like BoJack is incredibly well written and really subverts your expectations of typical adult animation. It also does a great job of showing character development and that everyone has flaws.
@vlc-cosplayer
5 ай бұрын
@@larsen_draws8430 the dramatic parts are well written, but the comedic parts were generally pretty cringe...
@anarchistsworkshop
5 ай бұрын
Agree. Unless I'm grossly misremembering, Bojack was really light on the "high school" immature humor, and the whimsical humor that was there served a purpose contrasting the really damn dark tone.
@anarchistsworkshop
5 ай бұрын
@@vlc-cosplayer cringe how? IIRC a lot of the comedic parts were supposed to be laughing at one of the characters rather than with them, so some level of cringe is necessary.
@czwarty7878
5 ай бұрын
@@larsen_draws8430 "I feel like BoJack is incredibly well written" you have very low expectations for writing in shows then. Like, it's okay if you enjoyed it, good for you and I'm not even sarcastic here; but saying it's "incredibly" well written is kinda ridiculous. He explained in video what he means by that, and he's right - the level of exposition in these shows is unreal, it's like the writers aim at high schoolers and think character traits, plot points and stuff will fly over their heads if they don't explicitly state what they mean and repeat it 3+ times for good measure, just in case borderline-mentally challenged viewer still doesn't get it. It's honestly demeaning to intelligent viewer, it's like someone explaining a joke to you.
@EscapeReality123
5 ай бұрын
Hazbin Hotel is a perfect example of why filler episodes are a thing. There was no time at all to get attached to the characters, there is very little of exposition, and everything feels way to fast and chaotic, in the bad way. I am extremely happy that this show is popular, cause it's a huge deal for all indie creators out there, but it really isn't a good show.
@jarongreen5480
2 ай бұрын
Honestly it's not a big deal for "all indie creators" It's a stain if anything. This show is a cringy mess and when indie animations are brought up now most people are gonna assume they're all just as bad.
@tonbunseng6611
Ай бұрын
No it won't because of murder drones, digital circus, lackadaisy etc.
@yipipayayiii
Ай бұрын
@@jarongreen5480i mean...till now indie shows have proven that they're ANYTHING but good it's so sad that all of the good indie shows are underrated or overlooked by pure brainrot and quirky shows
@Jdudec367
22 күн бұрын
@@jarongreen5480 It is a big deal and it isn't a stain at all. It isn't a cringey mess. Except Hazin isn't even bad really.
@Jdudec367
22 күн бұрын
I mean there is time to get attached to the characters but there should be more time really, and we saw enough exposition too, eh no not everything feels way too fast and chaotic some stuff is like that but not all of it. Eh nah it is good really.
@Hepheat75
6 ай бұрын
As a writer who's currently writing a huge story with another writer, having ten people on the writing team sounds like a nightmare.
@NeyamStar
5 ай бұрын
Yea yikes
@tonbunseng6611
Ай бұрын
if you were to pick your writer who would you want to be in your group?
@eternallylearning2811
6 ай бұрын
I kinda view alastor as an OP idiot whos very good at convincing people including himself hes not an absolute mess
@leritykay8911
6 ай бұрын
Same, and that's my favourite part about him
@TruxySSJ
6 ай бұрын
I love how Gojo can also be summed up like that, yet he somehow feels more natural and believable than Alastor
@frankkennedy6388
6 ай бұрын
How exactly is Alastor an idiot?
@bigchunguskeanureeveswhole1143
6 ай бұрын
@@frankkennedy6388he's extremely egotistical and beefs with people above him
@ritaerror7829
6 ай бұрын
The thing is, he could've been made better... Blackhat is great example. Alastor is... fine? Just a walking overpowered mystery, so he scores gore/epic points and people will stay invested.
@acetrigger1337
4 ай бұрын
The problem with bad writing is that writers only write what they know, and since most consume a lot of bad media... it leads them to replicate it, cause that is what they consider it "good". it is very much a "Industry Problem".
@TheAnonyomusGuy
6 ай бұрын
The entire first season hinges on an idiot plot. SPOILERS The reason the executions are getting moved up, It's because one angel was killed. However, angels can only be killed by their own holy weapons, and the only reason the demons had access to holy weapons is because after each extermination, the angels would just leave whatever holy weapons they used behind instead of collecting them and returning to heaven with them.
@cakefrosting6451
6 ай бұрын
I feel that whole part was like, what is that, plot convenience writing, precisely because they could not write a cool narrative of how the demons managed to get their hands on any angelic weaponry… and also another thing I’m thinking is like how lethal is the angelic weapon exactly. It only seems to look amazing but no true delving into how lethal angel power is to a demon of any type. Like just these few questions here. Do they have to wear gloves to handle it? Will having one near you slowly harm the user? Is the angelic power coming from the angel themselves channeled into the weapon of choice, or is the weapon powered with its own “core” element for it to work? And these aren’t all the questions I have just for angelic weapons alone, just a few of them. 🥲
@politkos5348
6 ай бұрын
holy shit thats actually really stupid
@bigchunguskeanureeveswhole1143
6 ай бұрын
it's part of the suspension of disbelief. Plus, it characterizes the angels as prideful (foreshadowing) and pretty sadistic (they don't know they can be harmed by demons, so they just let them loose to kill each other).
@politkos5348
6 ай бұрын
@@bigchunguskeanureeveswhole1143 no its just a really stupid plot point. Even if they dont know the demons can kill them, they SHOULD know that their own weapons can because they (or someone high up) made them. In fact i think they do know that because vaggie gets killed by lute. Theres no way they couldnt think that a demon could just take them and use the weapons against them when the ENTIRE reason for the extermination is to prevent a hell uprising. Considering theyre willing to do genocide to make that happen, they wouldnt want to give demons any chance against them, including the simple act of picking up your weapons and leaving with them. So why the fuck are they leaving their weapons around? This isnt suspension of disbelief, this is a blatant plot hole. Please dont try and justify this with headcanon bullshit or some info from a stream because neither of those are in the story itself.
@christopherauzenne5023
6 ай бұрын
Yeah, to add to this/and tredds point of the storytelling going down between the pilot and actual show, it annoyed me they tried making this a major revelation when I assumed that was common knowledge. The pilot showed people taking the angels weapons with I believe an angels corpse nearby, along with vaggie using an angel spear later. So I assumed he’ll had a black market for these holy weapons that people use to gain power along with that the weapons could kill angels/certain strong demons could kill angels it’s just that the angels are so much more powerful that you’d need 50 demons to take one down (so each year hell has a loss rate of 4000 while the angels lose like 4/200)
@riotkitty
6 ай бұрын
Ten writers on the writing team is more often than not a red flag for a show being written badly, too many cooks in the kitchen wanting to do their own thing & as such, the direction is aimless. Also you get issues like characters repeating information that was already told, because different writers want to convey the same information in the scenes they write.
@immediateegret2120
5 ай бұрын
This was exactly my thought and I was surprised the video didn't home in on it more. Seeing ten writers didn't make me wonder 'how could the writing still be bad' it made me think 'of course the writing was a mess!' Literal design by committee, exacerbated by a creator who (from what I glean from this video, I have no prior knowledge of VivziePop) hasn't learned to accept and utilize constructive criticism.
@rbfloat
6 ай бұрын
I was hoping Hazbin Hotel would be better than Helluva Boss, but it has the same problems, yet Hazbin is worse. Viv had this idea for years and worked on it for ten years. So it's so frustrating that after working on this for a decade, this is the best she can do. I'm extremely frustrated with this show because I wanted it to be better than it is. And sadly, I don't think her writing will improve because she cannot take criticism. She gets so angry when anyone gives her constructive criticism, and that is why the show is such a disaster.
@ChildOfCosmos
6 ай бұрын
Sadly, I believe the fact that she took so long working on this show is most likely the reason she cannot take criticism well. If you worked on something for so many years, it's obvious that you're going to get pretty defensive when someone points out the faults on such thing. Even if something is bad, people tend to grow fond of it when they invest so much time and effort into it.
@bribri2925
6 ай бұрын
Ohmygosh! TEN YEARS? You’re serious?! Can you point me to the development video so I can see how it progressed? (Not being mean, but I’m curious abt creating a series and I myself was willing to take my time bc I saw how ppl criticized fast paced stories and wished they’d take more time to build relationships and rivalry. She had ten years…apparently there’s a problem in taking too much time…) I think she’s a great animator and character designer, but that she should have delegated writing to someone else, professionals (even saying that, professionals cost money. A lot of ppl working on hazbin was working bc of passion. So I understand the conflict there) so that she wasn’t taking SO LONG to teach herself proper writing. Her weaknesses shine through here.
@pjdixon6199
6 ай бұрын
Disaster? You are aware of how popular this show is right?
@politkos5348
6 ай бұрын
@@pjdixon6199 popularity =/= quality. Otherwise garbage like twilight would be one of the greatest films of all time
@pjdixon6199
6 ай бұрын
@@politkos5348 Whatever helps you cope bro 👍
@bettygrof.
2 ай бұрын
helluva and hazbin both confuse me. what is their demographic supposed to be? they're "for adults" but are so bad that no one who's an adult watches them, leading to their one collective fandom being just a bunch of edgy 11-12 year olds who think any valid criticism the show gets is hate
@pjdixon6199
2 ай бұрын
Plenty of adults watch both shows you doofus
@androidps1440
2 ай бұрын
@@pjdixon6199 riiiiight...
@benjaminjara7312
6 ай бұрын
As a stranger on the internet said once: Hazbin Hotel, the best adult show for children Edit: Que chucha?
@sandracarnegie2871
6 ай бұрын
*mature adults
@cyntheziser
6 ай бұрын
@@sandracarnegie2871 *immature adults and children.
@realdragon
6 ай бұрын
@@sandracarnegie2871 *Insert word fuck and sex* Look how mature it is, they say adult words
@gnome5057
6 ай бұрын
ive met so many children that love this show
@Thelisreal-sh3tz
6 ай бұрын
This is a great line describes most “mature” content nowadays, because clearly the content isn’t being properly filtered from children’s eyes. This also causes quite a bit of content to cater more to children even though they are still creating “adult” content.
@2l84me8
6 ай бұрын
How does a show have so much exposition and explain nothing at the same time?
@Vecchio_Rhosod85
4 ай бұрын
Skeletor: "Ha! Just like a woman!"
@sopapiglobo
5 ай бұрын
For what I know Viv prefer to work with bootlickers instead of actual good writers, that's why she got in this whole mess.
@GoonManGuy
5 ай бұрын
Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss feel the same way to me that bad mascot horror does. A bunch of funky designs in a neat looking and sounding setting strung together with the weakest through line manageable for the main goal of being bait; carving out a cultural niche through the potential of being interesting. The audience can take the cool looking characters and the allusion to a more intricate world and run with it, making their own media that expands on what they think the characters and settings are like. It doesn't even matter what the show is or where it goes, at that point. It's all just window dressing.
@SpoopySquid
2 ай бұрын
Wow, that actually sounds like a pretty solid summary of Viv's career
@crusaderpr7683
6 ай бұрын
i also think of an 8 sin that is "not studying on how to write a story" because most of the stories flaws can be fix by reading the rules of basic writing specially when it comes to character personality like the reason angel dust was accuse of been "a gay for straight women" is because he was written the way some women fetishes gay people ,which this is = to men fetishizing lesbians, and that is why he feels unrealistic but again all could have been avoid by just learning the basics of writing
@WeebGuru6
6 ай бұрын
Angel is a writers baby man I wouldn’t be surprised most male viewers don’t like angel cuz I certainly don’t and viz doesn’t know how to write an abuse character and it shows with angel and moxxie
@VantaDraws
6 ай бұрын
How should they write Angel better?
@WeebGuru6
6 ай бұрын
@@VantaDraws I would write him less sexual and less sex joke cuz it ain’t funny and makes him kind of annoying would also make him straight but he became gay cuz of Valentino abuse also make him paranoid of people touching him especially from behind
@michace
6 ай бұрын
‼️LONG RANT INCOMING‼️ TLDR; vivzie can’t handle gay characters/relationships. I think people are too quick to dismiss this certain criticism. It seems throughout Vivzie’s work she isn’t capable of writing healthy or realistic MLM gay relationships/characters. I won’t jump to conclusions on what kind of person Vivzie is, but I’d like to just point out a pattern that I’ve seen in her work. There’s nothing wrong with gay male characters being salacious/sex workers/abusive, but when ALL your notable male gay characters are that way, it’s pretty telling. Angel and Valentino in a classic pimp scenario being obvious, creating sympathy for Angel through common stereotypes of sex workers being taken advantage of, but the show also jokes about Angel “sexually harassing” people and it’s never properly addressed. Neither is his drug addiction. That’s not even mentioning Stolas and Blitz in HB, which are a whole mess. They’re both introduced as creepy, sexual predators. Stolas harasses Blitz, especially in the pilot, and holds the grimoire over his head to get him to sleep with him. Blitz constantly harasses Moxxie and the show makes a joke out of him trying to get into a threesome with M&M. And before anyone brings up Stella, the only reason that conflict occurred in their marriage was because Stolas was sleeping around with imps. I’d argue that the relationship between Stolas and Blitz itself is nonsensical and should’ve never been forced in the first place. They’re both incredibly broken individuals and Vivzie can’t handle this subject with maturity and care. Compare that to relationships with women in them like Millie and Moxxie or Charlie and Vaggie and there is a huge difference. Those relationships are allowed to be loving, healthy, and not constantly talking about sex. They’re capable of being their own people and talking through issues together. EDIT, ADDING ON: Moxxie has his issues, sure, but he’s also the only queer male character who’s allowed a loving relationship, with a woman. He’s also notably less traumatized and hopeless than other male characters. Chaz, Moxxie/Millie’s ex, does nothing to divert this pattern, also being an incredibly sexual, conniving harassing asshole who abandons Moxxie. I’d also like to note that in Vivzie’s Zoophobia comic, an early version of Alastor was meant to stalk and torment an openly gay character of hers, Autumn, a 17 year old boy. To reiterate, I don’t think any of this is horrible on its own, but concerning when you put it all together, and I’m not the first to say this either. It may just be indicative of a larger problem with her writing, that she tends to project her own problems/trauma on those characters (which she openly admitted to with Angel), and that she isn’t interested in writing characters that are deeper than tropes and stereotypes. This may just be me, but it’s clear that MLM relationships/characters are not treated with the same dignity.
@WeebGuru6
6 ай бұрын
@@michace I agree 💯 this is why I don’t like angel dust cuz I can tell she’s trying to do it for sympathy and Charlie x vaggie and moxxie x Millie are no better my guy she just can’t write romance angel dust is supposed to be like Mikey from shameless but ended up like gay quagmire
@cakefrosting6451
6 ай бұрын
10:01 The pilot wants you to not like Lucifer for the potential harm he caused on his daughter by not being confident in her execution of her plan. The actual show makes you try to not like Lucifer and then go, “omg he has depression forgive him for causing daddy issues to Charlie” I wonder what other dad character suffers the same type of writing of “oh no I caused my daughter issues but I have issues too now audience is sad about me”
@nevaehhamilton3493
6 ай бұрын
I think it's because Vivziepop had a pretty great childhood and thus would never be able to understand daddy issues first hand. Meanwhile, I've heard stories from my mom about how she was neglected and implied to be abused in her youth, and I even butt heads with my own parents, so I can tell you a thing or two about daddy issues.
@cakefrosting6451
6 ай бұрын
@@nevaehhamilton3493 same here, I am wrangling with a problematic father myself that is pretty much the result of generational trauma, but daddy issues can really manifest in a few ways and Charlie’s one, resolved almost too quickly, is more like a minor misunderstanding over one subject, than a daddy issue🥲 Especially in how it’s shown to the audience.
@redpanda6497
6 ай бұрын
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Judging by the way she talks ( she seems like an emotionally immature person to me ) and that none of her characters are healthly, I don't think so. She can't write abusive and villainous characters, which is why I don't think she have abusive parents ( at least that's my opinion ) but for me it seems like at very least she had messy, immature, maybe even neglectful, parents, specifically her father. I don't know what to think of her mother. All of the mother characters are idealized, but missing. Maybe that would explain why she can't write female characters. Did I just analyze someone based on their cartoon? Yeah, sorry if I went throught a personal limit. I really don't want to offend anyone with it.
@lorddevilfish5868
6 ай бұрын
I like Hazbin, but I was very disappointed with Lucifer. A problem I have with both Helluva Boss and Hazbin is that they establish a lot of parallels to authoritarianism, corruption, late stage capitalism, but a lot of the people at the top are treated more like celebrities and often mid tempered ones and not actual political leaders. I don’t mind it occasionally (I like Carmilla and Asmodeus especially since they’re in a state where they’re loosing influence to more harmful ones) but the fact that Beelzebub and Lucifer both preside over a political system that has slavery, racial segregation, and other forms of exploitation, they seem way too cheerful and accepting.
@nevaehhamilton3493
6 ай бұрын
@@lorddevilfish5868 almost as though she's tryna have her cake and eat it too, not caring about the long term consequences of the results of her fruits of her supposed labor, because her mind is so corrupted by the idea of wanting clout for her work as a result of being chronically online that she's essentially fighting tooth and nail to maintain that reputation above all else, when it really should have been about the creativity, and not the fame that comes with it.
@pewnie-piece-of-piffcorn
5 ай бұрын
so heaven has biblically accurate angels but hell has nothing but gay people
@BenjaminPena-kz3hf
2 ай бұрын
accurate?...
@thegrimharvest
Ай бұрын
What did Viz mean by this? That's an interesting unintentional oof.
@spinosaurusstriker
Ай бұрын
Accurate?
@mayor_theo
Ай бұрын
At least they got that last one accurate
@ultimaxkom8728
Ай бұрын
@thegrimharvest Lmao. I just realized the big oof.
@kaiosamatlj4031
13 күн бұрын
The characters saying that Charlie has daddy issues is like Obi-Wan Kenobi saying that stormtroopers are precise.
@TheMedicatedArtist
6 ай бұрын
Sin 5 - Viv watched Panty and Stocking and saw that the Angels were assholes and loved it. Then she thought the demons being strict rule followers was lame and kept them as asshole too. Viv knew modern audiences were media illiterate, so she made the characters we’re supposed to root for nice/kind-hearted cinnamon rolls while everyone else was made as irredeemable as humanly possible (even though the show spouted that *anyone* could be redeemed (including grapists and MAPs)). Is any of this true? Probably not, but if her fans can head canon in order to enjoy this show, then so will I. I’ve followed this series too long to get off the ride, so I’ll use any method I can to get something positive out of the experience.
@lukacunty
6 ай бұрын
Istg if by the end of the series Charlie doesn’t learn that not all sinners can be redeemed I will lose my shit. Also don’t use the term MAP. It gives pedos validation.
@nostalgiclly8241
6 ай бұрын
definitely dont use the term MAP.... we arent allowing pedophiles that label to hide behind. they are pedophiles and that is all. dont use MAP like ever its not a thing
@applesandgrapesfordinner4626
6 ай бұрын
> Pedos > Calls them "MAPs" Don't do that.
@sdhng5441
6 ай бұрын
I get the feeling that Vivienne knows absolutely nothing about Christianity (apart from very surface level things like the name of some of the biblical figures) and doesn't care to learn more about the topic either. The same goes for psychology, she'd probably read some pop-psychology articles about cool-sounding mental illnesses and called it a day. Which is fine in itself, not everyone has to be an expert in theology or mental issues. But she bites more than she can chew in every aspect of the show. Hazbin Hotel tries to tackle so many themes at once that she fails to do any of them properly. Religion, genocide, rebellion, war, redemption, slavery, human trafficking, r*pe, abuse, familial issues, relationship issues ... and the list goes on, but non of the themes or subplots are particularly well-written, because the show drags the audience from one thing to other before any of them could sink in properly. It's such a shame because I found the setting and main characters interesting, but the more I've seen about it, the more it felt like Vivienne got a platform to showcase her tumblr OCs without having to put any further thought into it.
@runawaykiwibird7461
6 ай бұрын
@@lukacunty I agree with your point about not calling pedos MAPs, but I think it has something to do with YT deleting comments that mentioned words like those.
@cyntheziser
6 ай бұрын
I am currently still watching. I'll be honest here,the voodoo stuff on Alastor seems completely useless in my opinion,like were they there just to make Alastor seem more threatening? Really? They could've just use Radio Symbols since,yk,he literally nicknames himself as the RADIO DEMON.
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
I have a theory that he's backed by a loa, and voodoo is why he was so powerful when he first arrived in Hell. But who knows when we'll get the full explanation of where Alastor's power came from.
@novonicfrotabarboza6810
6 ай бұрын
It's just a random and superficial mixed idea of Robert Johnson, blues and african american voodoo put in a random, vague and superficial character: Alastor.
@spac3st0rm
6 ай бұрын
I'm glad you acknowledged that Hazbin Hotel isn't the only adult show with these writing problems, that's been my biggest issue with critics. My second biggest one being how they'll give alternative writing prompts to fix things but cater it to themself instead of adhering to the creator's vision. Speaking of the creator, Vivziepop has been a huge inspiration to me as an aspiring animator. Writing is merely a hobby for me but I still want to improve, catching Viv’s writing mistakes has helped me catch my own. Amateurs are often told to solely look at experts for how to improve one's craft, but *only* listening to experts can be intimidating and discouraging. When she makes a writing mistake, I have the opportunity to investigate *why* it's wrong, why the fundamentals are important. The advice experts give is often lost in translation because they forget not everyone has the same level of knowledge. But Viv's mistakes are so blatant that I can't helped but me inspired to pick up where she left off. She may not want to improve but I do. Rewriting her works has done more to improve my own skills than most expert advice honestly.
@RoamingTrend
6 ай бұрын
I'm glad to hear it. I think she is great animator, but that doesn't instantly make one a great writer or director. Even storytelling experts and critics don't often write good stories. I've seen a ton of examples of youtubers who critique writing and the make the same mistakes when publishing their writing. It's a craft that takes a lot of effort to handle. But one still has to praise vivzie for having the determination to get her story made, warts and all and if she continues, I hope she will hone in on the craft more.
@commentbot9510
6 ай бұрын
I agree. Viv is an expert of animation and character design in my eyes, so its nice to see that someone successful can still have flaws like writing to improve upon. Its kind of motivating in a way. Also, like you said, seeing where she went wrong does help you to avoid making the same mistakes.
@DEVil-po5xz
6 ай бұрын
if you love something you'll want to improve it. people shitting on the show by making valid criticisms without bringing up other shows isn't them hating on the show. it's them wishing that this show would have been different. Also it's hard to say if Viv even had a fucking vision with this show since most of the story is just the blended hat.
@avivastudios2311
6 ай бұрын
A lot of people are having fun rewriting her story. I couldn't imagine being that invested in something this bad but if you enjoy it then you enjoy it I guess. I'm currently working on an urban fantasy where 20% of the population has super powers. The MC Gus has to fight off a bunch of villains with powers. It's really cool.
@avivastudios2311
6 ай бұрын
@@DEVil-po5xz You can tell that it went through a lot of rewrites. The war between heaven and hell was not a concept in the pilot. You can tell cause in the pilot heaven was exterminating sinners because of overpopulation and not control.
@fireemberess
5 ай бұрын
Honestly the answer for charlie and her dads dynamic is *right there*. Her dad brought about evil and sin with his ambition and began the downfall of humanity and is depressed by it. Charlie has inherited her fathers dreamer mentality, and what if her poor planning with the hotel (creating a "redemption" hotel without even finding out how to redeem a person or if its possible) is a great flaw for her character! shes a big dreamer and it gets her into trouble. Make her mother embarassed and disgusted with her being like her father and constantly nitpick at her and try to make her like her, and make her father understanding but fearful that charlie will be just like him, and have him discourage her which creates a rift between him and charlie. *its such an interesting family dynamic*. Lillith could hate Lucy cause he "put ideas in her head" and now "shes a failure" and lucy could have worse depression episodes from guilt from creating sin/evil and from his daughter being too ambitious like him. He'd constantly try to clip her wings and bring her back down to earth with her plans, and then after her pitch in heaven fails he angrily tells charlie "i told you not to get your hopes up" and starts trying to stop the hotel. Then comes alister, his rival, backing up charlie, stirring the pot between her and her father. bam- you got mommy and daddy issues, an interesting family dynamic, and more conflict in the rivalry with alistair, charlie has a character flaw that conflicts with her ability as princess/hotel runner that she has to grow and devolope from, and a spring board to make her relationship with both her parents more dynamic and interesting.
@cuponoodles8507
5 ай бұрын
I think HH is a show for children and adults who act like children disguised as an "Adult" show with violence, sex, and swearing, and even that stuff is so present in the show it feels like it was made for kids too, like baby's first Adult Cartoon. The writers feel like kids who just watched Family Guy for the first time and began experimenting with the word "fuck."
@poogissploogis
3 ай бұрын
Yes exactly! I tried going to a social group for a specific craft that I do and for whatever reason this craft is just overrun by big fat white millennial moms who think that swearing and making genital plushies is edgy and cool. After talking for a while, one of them said they loved Hazbin Hotel and I was immediately like "yep, there it is".
@ethanlivemere1162
2 ай бұрын
This is the most basic and common criticism for this show, it's been said thousands of times before. And yet, I really don't find the sex, violence and swearing as over the top as these comments always claim it is.
@Jdudec367
22 күн бұрын
@@ethanlivemere1162 exactly it honestly isn't even that true tbh
@LivLuvConditions
6 ай бұрын
What bothered me that in the last episode they made it a big deal that Alastor was "gone" just for him to immediately appear back perfectly fine. I mean, the Vees sang about how hell can belong to them now because Alastor has "died." And its not like theres tension between who would win (Alastor vs. Vees). I mean, in Vox and Alastor's whole song, it displays Vox as just this unhinged guy while Alastor actually seems to have power of some sort, which is why Vox wanted to team with him in the first place (at least thats what I got). I feel Alastor should've stayed "dead" until some point in the next season where the Vees just almost get the upperhand of hell, making his "death" and comeback having more of an impact. I feel he only came back so quickly (like LITERALLY in a blink of an eye) because he's the big fan favorite.
@harleyjune
6 ай бұрын
Agreed 100%. Alastor "Should have stayed gone" and disappeared for a while, his defeat and subsequent destruction of his cane was entirely pointless it seems as he comes back like nothing happened and this patron of his has probably already been figured out by viewers, any edge he had in the pilot is gone thanks to Mimzy's lore drop. The pilot never told us what he did, only that he was "broadcasting carnage" which sounds far better than making them scream on air. They showed their hand too early with his character and all the cards sucked.
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
I did find that odd. The Vees part in the song felt like it was setting them up to be more active antagonists in the next season. But then Alastor reveals to the other characters that he's alive, so the power vacuum that they were singing about doesn't actually exist.
@WhatTheScallœp
6 ай бұрын
They couldve kept his solo in the finale but not made him return to the main cast in season 2, it wouldve made way more sense. End on both the Vees and Alastor seperately singing about how they'll be the ones to have power ("the future of hell belongs to the vees/guess who will be pulling all the strings") and then have THE TWO OBVIOUS BIG BADS fight for power in season 2.
@Meuduso1
6 ай бұрын
"kill your darlings" works for a reason, right?
@ReconnectTC
6 ай бұрын
So glad someone pointed this out. On my first watch, I literally MISSED the part where Alastor popped back up, and I was so confused when he randomly appeared with the rest of the cast. I thought it was a mistake. I only realized after rewatching the scene that he actually did just reappear out of nowhere with almost no reaction from the cast, in the middle of a song no less. Goes to show how much of an afterthought it was I guess.
@crona1794
6 ай бұрын
Concerned Fan: Hey Vivzie...you should probably fix this specific aspect of the show. Vivziepop: Ok but I watched South Park as a kid so you're wrong.
@tarniabook3076
4 ай бұрын
Okay, but imagine if Charlie actually had daddy issues and she still tried to ask her father for help. Now imagine he is a horrible person, emotionally destroys her right on the hotel floor, and you know that confrontation Lucifer and Alastor have? Now Alastor has a very good reason to step in.
@TOMNICE
4 ай бұрын
There is also another way to depict Lucifer as a really evil character, but still has a soft spot for his family in some way. I like to see villains who try to be good parents.
@Phantasmagora
2 ай бұрын
As much as I adore Lucifer, man I would have LOVED to see this.
@Perdix64
6 ай бұрын
They already have **10** commandments and **7** deadly sins to make the rules.
@duncanharrell5009
6 ай бұрын
Yes but then that would force them to *GASP* actually work with rules that might be uncomfortable to “modern audiences”!
@cesar6447
6 ай бұрын
and the 7 cardinal virtues
@Perdix64
6 ай бұрын
@@cesar6447 seriously, they could’ve done this and just made the angels either follow it to a T or make it so that not even Adam, the original human, not even able to make it into heaven and the Adam we see is Adam Caedmon.
@cesar6447
6 ай бұрын
@@Perdix64 yeah, like adam and eve are literallythe first sinners and the ones who made their descendants able to sin, why are they in heaven?
@Perdix64
6 ай бұрын
@@cesar6447 it’s a familiar face to people
@tokyo_taxi7835
6 ай бұрын
The best way to instantly improve the writing is to take Vivziepop off of the writing team.
@artistanthony1007
5 ай бұрын
Episode 1 just proves this should've been done, she wrote the dang episode.
@poopsytheduck864
6 ай бұрын
Honestly, this video made me realize my own pitfalls as a comicbook artist. Specifically with my series Weirdos 4 Hire, and how I feel like I lack focus with it. I know the series has time travel as a part of a core concept, however, I don't know what the core theme is beyond: "Should time travel be free like the internet? Or regulations are a must? Or should only few hold the power?" Yet the actual series focuses on defeating time dimension anomalies per main chapter, yet the special chapters are character based and are meant to explore offshoots like an episodic series.
@Jane-ow7sr
6 ай бұрын
Depends on the form of traveling fueling the time travelling. Also what chaos will happen to the timeline if everyone from Everytime can travel? At that point what is the past and present? It all blends because there is no longer distinct qualities of when something happens. Idk what your story is about but throwing in a goose chase or organized crime/authorities hunting you down would be a good way to contain the idea of muddy timelines. Once that's established with some drama you can fade it into how exactly would someone fix this mess? Is it even fixable? Is there any way out of this version of time? You can still throw in episodic chapters focusing on characters and down the line thread them into important roles. Sorry for rambling I'm not very good at giving advice, I just see an idea and throw stuff at it.
@poopsytheduck864
6 ай бұрын
@@Jane-ow7sr first, about the rambling part, same, I throw stuff at ideas too. As for the form of time travel, it is established in my comic luckily: You use time cybernetics to teleport into the backrooms and from there you find a door where has the exact date and time you want on it, think of the place you want to go to rather precisely in your head and then enter through the door at your own risk. Also as someone who fears time travel overall, if anyone could time travel, the chaos will be that literally the timeline will be altered so often it'll break into an inconsistent mess the backrooms won't be able to handle, which will cause the angels to intervene (even alongside hell depending on which dimension) and reset the timeline manually by basically causing the end times, rescuing the ones which DIDN'T mess the timeline (they can send many angels to scan those in the moment so no privacy violation and they can detect liars instantly), those who tried to fix the chaos or simply traveled will be sent to the limbo court, and those who actively wanted to change things, aka mess around, they get to die. So basically yeah, and that's my ramble.
@Jane-ow7sr
6 ай бұрын
@@poopsytheduck864 oh cybernetics is a creative approach to time travelling, I can imagine criminals offering installations to criminals in the past and anyone who can pay the right price for it. Maybe as well the government or ehh a religious/pseudo religious authoritative entity has their secrets leaked leading to more mayhem. Not to mention who discovered and made time travelling devices in the first place, who decided to them them out and known to the public etc. What is their bigger picture? Have you considered making limbo the ultimate place for judgement of the grey and weighing the population they need to survive, rather than plain old heaven and hell. You don't even have to do limbo either you could use a different religion with the same ideas. Idk it would take more research.
@foxliasgriffinYT
6 ай бұрын
same here i love complex world building, but notice its too mucb and neet to switch focus more on tbe characters that im not even certwin what the main characters are to do
@Jane-ow7sr
6 ай бұрын
@@poopsytheduck864 aw my second comment never sent. I forgot what I wrote ):
@theeskrungly
5 ай бұрын
Oddly enough, the scene with Sir Pentious trying to buy Cherry a drink made me chuckle more than every ‘adult joke’ in the show.
@delunimbus
6 күн бұрын
It was funny in a charming way as it tells us about his insecurities and not just that he's a potty mouth like everyone else.
@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho
5 ай бұрын
Re: Charlie… even as someone who dislikes Vivienne’s work for both theological and writing reasons (I’ve no plans to watch any of it but I enjoy listening to criticism of her work), I think she’s got a solid design and voice across the pilot and the show proper. However, she doesn’t really make sense from a contextual standpoint. Yes, she’s bubbly and loving, but she’s also Satan’s daughter raised in the Hazbinverse version of Hell. Vivienne wants us to believe that she doesn’t really get how awful things are because of a supposed sheltered upbringing, but she also wants us to believe Charlie fully understands the gravity of the situation of the exterminations. Doesn’t make sense to me. Suppose I were the one in the writer’s chair… Charlie would’ve been raised in Heaven by the angel Gabriel, isolated from her true heritage and protected by her guardian angel Vaggie. She learns of what awaits sinners in Hades (pre-Hell), is horrified by the thought, and convinces the Trinity that if she could redeem 10 souls (in reference to the amount that God said would be necessary to save Sodom and Gomorrah), then they should allow repentant sinners who regret choosing Hell over Heaven. She and Vaggie go down to Hades, are horrified by all the rampant sin down there, make a deal with radio demon Alastor to use his hotel/studio/bar as a base for redeeming repentant sinners. Struggles that Charlie would face would include her nature as a cherubim making it difficult for her to interact with the hotel’s guests and the shock of her depressed pops being the devil who she’d been taught to fear for all her life.
@angel_of_rust
4 ай бұрын
now charlie suddenly looks like every trust fund sheltered teen that claims to be an activist against injustice
@pleasesnapmyneckmommy3048
2 ай бұрын
??? What the... this is a really solid idea! I absolutely love it. I'll steal it and use it for my dnd campain. Thank you!
@malakarvonstroheim5372
2 ай бұрын
@@angel_of_rust But she gets to actually put her money where her mouth is and put in the work to save people
@Astropeleki
2 ай бұрын
Now this is a show I would watch. Especially since it gives a 💩 about the mythology it draws from. Makes me interested in what St. Michael would be like and how he would see Charlie, since he would be the one who kicked her dad and his hosts out of Heaven in the first place.
@SwordTune
4 ай бұрын
Hazbin Hotel certainly is a show written by animators.
@mcrosevtuber3056
6 ай бұрын
That last part about PRIDE.. omg this explain 90% or entertainment these days. So sick of it
@jacobwiren8142
6 ай бұрын
When watching a show, and when writing an adventure, I always focus on the five "W"s: Who, What, Where, When, and Why. More specifically: "Who is this story about?", "What is the source of conflict?", "Where is it happening?", "When is the conflict going to occur?", and MOST importantly of all, "Why should I care about the conflict?". From the beginning of the PILOT of Hazbin Hotel, Vivziepop has failed to answer these questions. The last question, "why should I care", is especially bad. Charlie is the protagonist of the story, but she's full of contradictions. The story seems to suggest that we should care about Charlie because she's cute, but that does not make her a compelling protagonist. This is especially important because the characters are literally IN HELL. There are so many interesting things that can be done with this! Instead its just poor LA against rich LA. Writing a compelling protagonist isn't hard. All Charlie needs is a single quality that makes her special. That special quality then needs to give her the power to create change. This is where the story falls flat. We are told/shown that Charlie's special quality is her compassion. That quality then needs to be RELEVANT TO THE PLOT. Charlie has to actually SUCCEED and threaten Heaven's monopoly on goodness. If she doesn't, she looks like an idiot, which is exactly what happens.
@jaydarichmond8878
6 ай бұрын
A quality I noticed about Charlie which I thought would be interesting to explore is that she’s a bad listener. Her loved ones often give her advice which she often (not always but often) ignores in pursuit of what she perceives to be right, even when their concerns are warranted. I think this is an interesting flaw in Charlie’s character but I have little faith it will be explored in universe, especially since the story doesn’t really treat this quality as a flaw
@jacobwiren8142
6 ай бұрын
@jaydarichmond8878 Correct. This ties into her strength. She doesn't listen when people tell her to give up. She also doesn't listen to good advice either. The show needs to demonstrate that she is right to ignore others opinions. But it doesn't, so she looks dumb.
@viennasavage9110
6 ай бұрын
@@jaydarichmond8878 Wdym? all the examples ive seen have been her listening to advice from others. she listened to vaggie, she even listened to alastor, she listened to angel when he told her to leave and even apologized.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
6 ай бұрын
'"Who is this story about?", "What is the source of conflict?", "Where is it happening?",' etc. - I don't actually like this approach, due to the underlying philosophy behind it. Also this - 'All Charlie needs is a single quality that makes her special'. No! In both cases what you're asking for is a fundamentally SIMPLE story, with a main character who undertakes a QUEST in a world that essentially exists just for them. To me the most interesting stories take place in a vibrant WORLD that exists independent OF rather than FOR the heroes we may be following. Among the many sins of the later seasons Game of Thrones for instance, is in how they callously narrowed down the story to just 3, and eventually 2, competing factions with all the other characters either killed off, absorbed or discarded. The early seasons were compelling because of how rich the world was with this complex web of competing interests. An even better example of Game of Thrones would be the anime Baccano, in which you'd be hard pressed to even identify any of the characters as the MAIN character. And, short as it is, Baccano was glorious in its plotting. I'd rather see more shows like Baccano. Funnily enough, there's a genre of anime that VERY neatly falls into your schema, and it's hardly seen as a shining example of great storytelling - the isekai harem anime. The quintessential example of worlds' seeming to exist purely for the sake of the main character, including with the side characters literally all revolving around him. No thanks.
@viennasavage9110
6 ай бұрын
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I completely agree with this. Watching him complain about the story being nonlinear felt more like he was upset that it wasnt following a traditional storytelling template. Hazbin is meant to feel like a kids show gone mature. That's literally the style of viziepop. The critiques I do agree with though does come down to dialog and the directness in which they exposition themselves. Other than that, it was a nice watch.
@Mossy_Rock1
2 ай бұрын
the problem I have is that they want you to feel bad for Angel and how he’s treated but make fun of SA and rpe victims..it doesn’t make any sense to me
@bettygrof.
2 ай бұрын
fun fact about angel: that part of his story was only added because one of the writers had a kink for rpe and fetishized it. i forget their name but its still pretty gross
@SpoopySquid
2 ай бұрын
@@bettygrof.That certainly explains a lot. Oof
@bettygrof.
2 ай бұрын
@@Awesomesauce354 look it up
@---pu7ke
Ай бұрын
@@bettygrof.Where can we read/watch where that was revealed?
@talonsandtails501
6 ай бұрын
I had a thought; what if the way heaven and hell worked in Hazbin hotel was that you only go to hell if you feel like you deserve to be there. Resulting in good people with bad self esteem getting sent to hell and bad people with too much pride getting sent to heaven, and the plot revolves around exposing this flaw in the system? It would be a neat take on heaven and hell and provide social commentary on flaws system that punish the innocent
@christopherbravo1813
6 ай бұрын
it would also be totally inaccurate to the Bible, though that wouldn't be an issue in this case considering that accuracy isn't a priority for the writing team. XD
@HollyPhamXXX
6 ай бұрын
@@christopherbravo1813Not everything has to be accurate to make a good story. If Hazbin just followed the Biblical lore 1:1, redemption would be completely impossible bc God is always right and those sinners lost their chance. I’m OK with writers subverting and interpreting mythos as long as the universe internal logic is consistent and supports the story’s themes.
@christopherbravo1813
6 ай бұрын
@@HollyPhamXXX then you should not be at all okay with this show.
@majikeego244
6 ай бұрын
@@HollyPhamXXX my brother in Christ, did you forget about purgatory.
@dertechl6628
6 ай бұрын
The bible is a mess and allows so many interpretations.
@crumbsintopebbles
6 ай бұрын
To give you an idea of how bad the exposition problem is: if you watch a Hazbin clip out of context, you still get plenty of context.
@kerroseir4764
6 ай бұрын
4:07 funnily enough MLP has good writing and its crazy how a baby show has actually good values and character flaws without forcing the characters on a mission to fight god (and even when they fight a strong threat it's not given too many episodes because anyone who's watched those types of shows know how boring the plot gets with Mcguffins) MLP spends time developing it's cast which is crazy as this is the ONLY series I've seen that doesn't waste a single character because a character that would make no sense for the others to interact with is immediately on Pinkie's radar, but there are also people she doesn't interact with such as rainbow dash's author friend and also show cases that character by showing what loyalty is and sometimes it isn't reliability but also relying on someone as a role model But again due to it being veiled as a girly show it will lead you to being seen as a brony or a weird person when in reality I say it's a refreshing hit of nostalgia like Curious george and Cailou. Though since it isn't as edgy or full of swears it's gonna get the "child" label (and mind you MLP accepts that label and teaches good lessons over trying to force you to think a certain way and TRULY shows that a girl can enjoy fight scenes and fashion, fun light hearted stories but also deep adult topics of regret and forgiveness and moving on. A girl doesn't need to wear jeans or be "independent" to be a woman or hate the color pink. Sometimes being a woman is appreciating action and story but showing a deeper interest in character development in very "low stakes" adventures over a fight with god) side note anyone can wear jeans but like the stock standard of "strong woman" is short hair and jeans
@lsebastian9086
3 ай бұрын
Being like "kid" didnt meant it had to be dumb and MLP Gen 4 really did good with it. Lauren Faust really made it good setting the foundations for how things would go, and the female characters felt pretty varied I mean between the bookworm Twilight, the random friendly pinkie pie, Hard worked Applejack, Fashionista yet dramatic Rarity, Gentle yet shy Fluttershy, and competitive yet loyal Rainbow Dash. They all had moments in the show. SOmetimes good, sometimes bad (inevitable when the show ran for 9 seasons, not all episodes are going to be good), yet having a good moment there.
@justaintfeelinit8742
4 ай бұрын
Can we talked about how they ruined the exorcist? They painted them like they were T800s but we never get to see just how terrifying they are. Just for them to get turned into a complete joke by carmilla when she basically explains that they actually really suck at combat and their weakness is angelic steel which i find extremely hard to believe that no one else has figured that out. AND THEN they throw that out the window cause lute was able to damage Vaggie by simply bashing her head onto a table so i guess you dont need angelic steel to damage angels. I'm also guessing not a single sinner in all the centuries the extermination has been going on tried to fight back against exorcist
@Sorain1
2 ай бұрын
Wording choice ruined that. If it had been phrased "kill angels' or even 'do harm that sticks' it would work. Terminators do react to attacks, they just aren't more than momentarily inconvenienced by them most of the time. You can hit a T-800 with a car and it'll be knocked down, or knock it off balance with a shotgun or wrench.
@Cyberjyuubi
6 ай бұрын
Writing teams should be structured as an autocracy that is subservient to the main premise of the show not a democracy that is unaccountable to any premise. I think the main problem in writing teams is that they lack direction or a cohesive vision of what they want to write so they all go off and write their own things and then it becomes a patchwork blanket of nonsense.
@realdragon
6 ай бұрын
Something like lead writer and co-writers
@seafoam6119
6 ай бұрын
The best directors and artists were tyrants to their staff
@poogissploogis
3 ай бұрын
I agree. Our culture is very much obsessed with democracy on everything but in many cases democracy is not the way to go
@camotophat
6 ай бұрын
Hazbin Hotel is aimed at 35 year old theater kids that can't accept that high school is over, and think the Nostalgia Critic is still relevant and edgy.
@thechosenegg9340
6 ай бұрын
This is such an edgy comment lmao
@camotophat
6 ай бұрын
@@thechosenegg9340 You mad?
@idot3331
6 ай бұрын
@@camotophatspoken like a true 35 year old edge lord
@tylere.8436
6 ай бұрын
@@camotophatYour entire comment is the pot calling the kettle black.
@InaudibleSlinky
6 ай бұрын
@@camotophat You relying on decayed memes instead of your words like an adult?
@Eklipsewolf
5 ай бұрын
As the artist who had a world and crazy storyline and characters in my head in middle/high school, I easily recognized this as vivzie's parallel to that. It's a super common thing for artists growing up. The difference between her and the rest of us is that she had a million pre-teens who were on board with it for YEARS. Unfortunately when we look back on our stories that we came up with when we were younger, we realize they didn't make much sense or very good stories. This is why hazbin hotel is so messy in comparison to her other show, helluva boss - its story has just been in conception forever and she's so married to it and the characters that it leaves no imagination for overhaul
@jeggsonvohees2201
6 ай бұрын
If wanted to make an interesting plot point with Lucifer i would reveal that unknown to him, Humanity was always planned to have free will but not until they were ready for it at a later date, and that Lucifer doomed them to eternal sin by giving it to them too early because he thought he knew better. Then you could play with the ramifications of his actions and any responsibility he might feel towards humans.
@redpanda6497
5 ай бұрын
That's an amazing idea. That would make Lucifer both guilty and a flawed good guy/complex character ( wow, the internet has ruined these concepts lol ).
@1God1Fury
Ай бұрын
Speaking of Lucifer, when they relieved him and his personality - I couldn't believe that this wimp and a pushover (look at his interactions with sinners and Alastor) is ruler of Hell
@pjdixon6199
Ай бұрын
That was intentional you doofus
@Joyscp999
Ай бұрын
what you see is not what you expect
@melodierama
6 ай бұрын
The main problem of Hazbin Hotel might be sin number 7, both from creators and fans. I see everyone online talk about the "free hate" Vivzie supposedly gets but outside of some comments literally every creator get, I don't see much of it, quite the opposite, people seem to be really careful when criticizing the show despite some blatant issues it has that, I think, deserve to be pointed out. Someone said "Out for love" doesn't make sense because, up until this point, Vaggie had only been characterized as Charlie's loving girlfriend, straight up said she only wanted to protect her a few episodes prior and had half a song about it? They're deemed a hater, and blocked on Twitter by Vivienne despite it being a valid thing to say. Another thing is that the show doesn't seem to be able to decide if you're supposed to think hard about it, make theories, pay attention to details or if you're supposed to put your brain aside and enjoy the fun visuals, but no one wants to hear anything about it, not the fans, nor the writers :/
@kritsy6421
6 ай бұрын
That's such a good point, the fans keep saying their show "doesn't deserve the hate" or "to just let them enjoy their fun show" and also that the only thing anyone has to say is "that there's a ton of swearing and sex" when most criticisms I see whether serious or joking do point out flaws that the creator should address. Especially when the show is tackling things like addiction and SA I think that the creator should take not on how to handle those things with more care but it seems that the creator and fans are too prideful and assume any constructive criticisms to just be "jealousy-fueled hate" :/ which is sad cause I really do want to like the show but can't because of the writing flaws
@aaabbb-ve9po
5 ай бұрын
The meeting scene with the overlords and velvette’s musical number felt so random and done so quickly that it felt like whiplash.
@Corrector1
5 ай бұрын
"We literally just got here!"
@Phantasmagora
2 ай бұрын
I watched that scene and the first lines in the song always makes me cringe a little. It's too sudden and jarring.
@SwfanredLotr
3 ай бұрын
Vivzi stans: Lol. Why are Tim Pool and these right-wing christians making all this satanic panic. Its just a harmless show about redeeming souls into Heaven. Also Vivzi stans: Actually, characters like Sera, Adam and Lute are perfect metaphors of Le Catholics and their privileges. 🤓
@jamesrichardsoniii4801
6 ай бұрын
I wonder if anyone else is wondering this: how does permadeath work in this world? Even with the whole "sinners respawn after they 'die'" thing, how exactly can a demon die (or anything for that matter) from an angelic weapon? Does it destroy the soul? Or erase someone from existence? It's never explained.
@no_0riginality937
6 ай бұрын
In a past livestream it has been allegedly confirmed that when Sinners get killed their essence is embedded into hell Which explains the eyes all over hell
@jamesrichardsoniii4801
6 ай бұрын
@@no_0riginality937 I think I heard something about that. Even so, the show itself doesn't allude to that even being a thing that happens.
@no_0riginality937
6 ай бұрын
@@jamesrichardsoniii4801 Which is why I said “allegedly” since it hasn’t become confirmed nor denied
@luluzin5022
6 ай бұрын
The Chad Bojack Horseman: only uses the "fuck" once per season to increase the emotional impact of an important scene The Virgin Hazbin Hotel: uses curse words so often that they become flavor text and you stop noticing them at all
@MatthewMurdock-cq8xu
6 ай бұрын
Name one time someone said a slur in the show
@luluzin5022
6 ай бұрын
@@MatthewMurdock-cq8xu I meant "curse words". English is not my native language. But I'm pretty sure someone says "f*g" at one point in Hazbin Hotel
@pjdixon6199
6 ай бұрын
@@luluzin5022 No they didn’t, stop making stuff up 💀
@redpanda6497
5 ай бұрын
@@luluzin5022 It only happened in the comics ( Dirty healings ), but that character was supposed to be dislikeable.
@TheTdw2000
5 ай бұрын
Normal words, but a horse guy!
@XragebootsX
6 ай бұрын
A problem with adding more subtlety in the show is that as is people fail to grasp the concepts already
@tobimisa
6 ай бұрын
if you're writing with the intention of leaving nobody behind, trying to make sure that there's no way that anything could be misunderstood or missed by any audience member, you're going to make baby food. pre-chewed and bland. it's a legitimate criticism to say that something is too Dense, that what it's trying to say isn't conveyed well (or at all) because it doesn't offer enough concrete information, but the problem isn't with Subtlety, it's with the quality of the writing. it is, for instance, worth pointing out that a lot of the reasons why people fail to grasp the concepts in hazbin's story is because it doesn't Just do "tell" rather than "show." sometimes it Tells us something and then Shows Us the opposite. when you present contradictions in the writing (be that basic facts about characters' personalities or something more complex like the Themes of your story) it can confuse the audience just as effectively as something subtle going over their heads. show don't tell is important because it can be irritating when a story doesn't trust its audience enough to not spoon feed them information. but it's Equally about reinforcing the information that a story Wants us to understand through active choices being made in the writing. if you want the king of hell to be depressed then you can't just tell us that he has depression, you have to make decisions that let us come to the Conclusion that he has depression, otherwise the audience won't buy into it. on the more extreme end, it's hard to take hazbin hotel seriously when it wants to tell a story about sexual abuse when it then turns around and makes rape jokes that it expects the audience to laugh at without thinking about it. and I want to avoid making a moral judgement about the writers when I say this, but they're just incongruent with each other tonally. you Tell your audience that sexual abuse is serious, and then Show them that it's okay to treat it like a joke unchallenged. and it's not hard to see how that would spawn an audience of people who don't take that theme seriously. (again, not to say that the entire audience of the show treats it that way, but rather that it's not a surprise that the bad actors in the fan base are there). if you want it to have impact then it has to be treated Like a taboo, to have weight behind it. to convey to the audience that this Isn't something to be made light of. if there's humor surrounding it, it can't Deflate that weight. otherwise that weight Won't Be There. whether you make a story as subtle as a brick or not there needs to be Intentionality and Purpose. and that's just as important in character writing as it is in framing the themes.
@DEVil-po5xz
6 ай бұрын
this is just not fucking true and is only believed by people who thing they're hovering over everyone else. stories like the killing joke, dark souls, and berserk are considered some of the best pieces of fiction out there. if you fail to make the audience realize the rich story then you're just a bad writer.
@bigchunguskeanureeveswhole1143
6 ай бұрын
@@DEVil-po5xzthe definition of subtle is to be difficult to understand or see. If you highlight it in neon lights it's no longer subtle. Like steam achievements, it's meant to be hard to get, or at least take effort to notice.
@DEVil-po5xz
6 ай бұрын
@@bigchunguskeanureeveswhole1143 yes but there is a fine line to that. If you want to make a good story you need to keep it subtle but not vague enough to not have anyone understand it. If you go over that line you failed. The same way that you would fail if you made it blatantly made everything obvious to the viewers. That's why there aren't that many good stories out there anymore. It takes a shit ton of effort to walk that line.
@Corrector1
6 ай бұрын
@@tobimisa Well said. Even if some people might overlook subtlety, dumbing down your story generally isn't the way to go.
@brandonkim8423
3 ай бұрын
It's the embodiment of a tumblr girl who never grew out of that phase of art style and writing.
@Pancake_Cat2024
Ай бұрын
I honestly feel like that type of person and hate it
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