Ginger Baker always struck me as someone who wasn't good enough to be a highly regarded jazz drummer, so he went to rock and then spent the rest of his life reminding everyone that he was a jazz drummer and therefore better than everyone else.
@eliborg
3 жыл бұрын
Man’s couldn’t even come close to the stuff Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Roy Haynes and so many other cats from the 60s were playing m
@SimpleManGuitars1973
3 жыл бұрын
@@eliborg If you like great jazz drumming I HIGHLY recommend you check out Wes Montgomery with the Wynton Kelly Trio on Smokin' At The Half Note. INCREDIBLE musicianship all around!
@eliborg
3 жыл бұрын
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 I mean the rhythm section consists of Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb, can’t go wrong with those two
@taylorfarr6
3 жыл бұрын
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 Yes
@johnboy14
3 жыл бұрын
Sounds accurate. He makes Bonham sound ordinary but the history of rock says different.
@CeeJayDee94
2 жыл бұрын
Not only were all the members of Zeppelin masters of their craft, all of them are genuine and humble guys too.
@lexdunn4160
2 жыл бұрын
They have a lot to be humble about.
@MrMolack
2 жыл бұрын
Plant is not so humble;) He said a lot of bad things on other British bands....
@AndyBaylor
2 жыл бұрын
Jonesy was the only sane one.
@litgamer6205
2 жыл бұрын
You missed the whole point dude 🤣
@saint_almo
2 жыл бұрын
@@lexdunn4160 this is probably the most unpopular opinion I’ve ever heard
@RichDalessandris
2 ай бұрын
Ginger wasn't trying to win popularity contests. But without a doubt was a master at his craft. He arranged music for Grahm Bond, Cream and Air Force. He did more than just play. His influence as a musician from the sixties on ,will last for more than his time on earth.
@CapoKabar
Ай бұрын
Ginger was an amazing all around drummer. Dude destroyed his life to master African rhythms and get down to the root of drumming. Could he have been as good as Max and the others in Jazz?-Maybe. But remember, Ginger was never a pocket player and always wanted to get new rhythms and sounds blended into Rock and blues music. He was an innovator. Even Miles Davis had respect for him. Miles liked that he forged his own style and innovated. For what he accomplished, we all owe Ginger the world
@Mjollnir1234
3 жыл бұрын
Literally everyone who's ever met or known Baker thinks he's an utter tool factory.
@End-Result
Жыл бұрын
Incredibly sloppy drummer as well
@theblakex
Жыл бұрын
@@End-Result Incredibly ignorant opinion
@jasoncraig561
Жыл бұрын
@@theblakex Certainly not an opinion. Straight up facts! Fucking horrible & sloppy. But who cares, he laughed to the bank during those times from of the cream records. I don’t have much appreciation for Bonham but he had his moments, and so did Keith. Ginger just flat out fucking sucked
@Pumper_of_Maws
4 ай бұрын
No one thinks he’s more of a tool than his own son Kofi
@rockinron3215
3 ай бұрын
Yeah he just seemed like an angry guy.
@BassManDan1018
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker was a vicious sociopath who got a free pass to treat people like shit because he was lucky enough to land in a short lived band with two other massive talents.
@mobrules29
3 жыл бұрын
Hmm. I think you have something there.
@Oi325
3 жыл бұрын
@@mobrules29 agreed
@leonardodavinci3774
3 жыл бұрын
@Timothy Farmer doesn't mean jack shit my man.
@mingithemango
2 жыл бұрын
A free pass? lol he doesn't give a shit, he would've been the same grumpy man even if he weren't a famous musician.
@shabbos-goy9407
2 ай бұрын
Agreed
@apexjoe4769
Жыл бұрын
What about Mitch Mitchell, one of the most influential rock drummers of all time. Ginger probably didn't like him either.😆
@rockinron3215
3 ай бұрын
I thought the same thing
@ixoye56
2 ай бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised if he liked Mitch, he was also a Jazz drummer at heart
@antonywilliams5703
Күн бұрын
Not sure if he liked Mitch or not, but obviously Ginger thought he was better than him...and everyone else.
@pjtheory
4 жыл бұрын
It's interesting to note that when the Who went into the studio to record the rock masterpiece Who's Next, John Bonham asked Keith Moon if he could watch the drumming sessions. Bonham had great respect for Moon's prodigious talent, yet despite being a close friend of Moon The Loon, Baker doesn't hesitate to take a shot at the most unique drummer in rock history. It's no surprise that Bonham and Moon frequently downplayed their drumming abilities whereas Baker constantly touted himself as the "World's Greatest Drummer."
@kevinstimelsky673
4 жыл бұрын
Well said!!
@Biggases777
4 жыл бұрын
Yup, that’s what makes bonham and moon better drummers and people than baker. Very well said!
@Biggases777
3 жыл бұрын
@Timothy Farmer I do agree with you that ginger was a better musician, I just think that bonham had better grove and had more influential beats. I just hate how bitter ginger was. No matter who is better, ginger would just say he was the best, which is not the right thing to do, no matter if you actually are better.
@megadave1197
3 жыл бұрын
Cream of the crop.
@megadave1197
3 жыл бұрын
@@Biggases777 Bonham like Plant were needlessly over the top loud. It was like they were trying to compete and drown out Page. For me at the end of the day Zeppelin was all about Page. It’s a great guitarists band. As for the Cream they were fantastic and very different to any other act. Probably the best example of the power trio and with Disraeli Gears psychedelic rock music. If you listen to the live section of Wheels of Fire you can tell they were a great live band.
@bowlingstoned2113
2 жыл бұрын
Bonham didn't swing, true. He fuckin GROOVED.
@KendraAndTheLaw
6 ай бұрын
Bonzo had swing down in perfection.
@waynepayne864
3 ай бұрын
yea ginger wasnt even really insulting the guy (more like the public who say that.) its just the truth they were going for different things. ginger just talks like that i dont think it came from malace or arrogance
@Kallogee
3 ай бұрын
@@waynepayne864 now that i happened to watch it again i agree. hes talking about being different, not about whos better doing what they do
@BigBri550
2 ай бұрын
@@Kallogee No, I disagree. I totally interpreted Ginger Baker's comments as meaning he thought he was more accomplished a drummer than Bonham and Moon. On the other hand, he didn't say they were no good, either. He even admitted "Bonham had technique."
@WindsOfNeptune
Жыл бұрын
Hypothetically speaking: Bonham sitting in with Cream would’ve probably been great. Baker sitting in w Zep would’ve probably been a disaster.
@masterofreality5528
2 ай бұрын
Bonham was good in studio. Live, not so great
@tylerthompson1842
2 ай бұрын
@@masterofreality5528that’s not true at all. It was a matter of consumption. In the studio you’re less likely to get drunk, but live it’s more of a party atmosphere. That said, he wasn’t always drunk when he played live. There’s plenty of examples of concerts and TV appearances where he’s on
@masterofreality5528
2 ай бұрын
@@tylerthompson1842 Pitiful excuses. Just bcs you're a fan, that doesn't mean he's great. They were all drugged and drunk live. Everyone can be great at studio, but live is where you're true playing comes out. I only said he wasn't very great live. He was a good drummer
@aaronrogers8846
Ай бұрын
@@masterofreality5528 Give your head a shake 🙄
@anthonypimping201
Ай бұрын
Bonham was a monster both live and studio. Ginger baker can't be in the same league with bonham. He can't compete with Bonzo 🎉@@masterofreality5528
@jmdrummer7
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker: Tasteful player, bitter person. As for being a jazz drummer, that would be Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Tony Williams, Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, etc. If you start a criticism of someone and the sentence starts with "If they were still alive", just stop right there. For the record, my favorite drummer of all time is the great John Bonham. RIP
@Biggases777
4 жыл бұрын
Bonham could out drum ginger most definitely, and could swing like the devil
@bigmoney4685
3 жыл бұрын
Idiots 🤣🤣🤣
@robpelick7460
2 жыл бұрын
@Bru Rred you actually sound a little like Baker yourself
@rockinron3215
3 ай бұрын
Buddy Rich had hands that Baker couldn't touch.
@ProfessorKenneth
Жыл бұрын
No such thing as "the greatest" each drummer has their own style that fit the band they were in, or are in. Ginger is/ was threatened by Bonham,moon. He didn't have to be, he was brilliant 👍🏻
@robpelick7460
3 жыл бұрын
Sad to hear Baker putting down the Greatest Rock Drummer of All Time. I'm talking about John Bonham, of course
@theblakex
3 жыл бұрын
There's no Bonham without Baker
@ChristopherAdam42
3 жыл бұрын
@Timothy Farmer who gives a fuck about African drummers, this is rock music. The more complicated drumming is, it ruins the rhythm of the song, that’s more for other drummers to marvel at. I’ve played guitar my entire life and I’ve always laughed when people think Yngwie Malmsteen is the best guitar player because of all that flashy stuff he does but the guy can’t write a good song that the majority of people enjoy listening to. Ginger Baker couldn’t write a good song to save his life, he could technically drum his ass off but Eric Clapton is the only reason people know who Ginger Baker is.
@bratwurst19
3 жыл бұрын
@@ChristopherAdam42 who gives a fuck about african drummers, this is rock music? who gives a fuck about basketball i'm trying to talk about sports
@MrKeefrichards
3 жыл бұрын
@@ChristopherAdam42 i have played in bands my entire life and you are talking utter crap
@LedSteelers
3 жыл бұрын
Zero Class All Ego !!!!!
@missdee4927
3 жыл бұрын
Jimmy Page defending Bonzo: I was a bit disappointed by that. His criticism was that Bonham didn't swing. I was like, “Oh, Ginger. That's the only thing that's undeniable about Bonham.” I thought that was stupid. That was a really silly thing of him to say.
@robpelick7460
2 жыл бұрын
Bonzo's feel is what set him apart from ordinary pedestrian drummers like Ginger Baker. Listen to "How Many More Times" - there is definite swing to Bonham's playing and Baker couldn't come close to matching it.
@HankFinkle11
Жыл бұрын
@@robpelick7460 nonsense.
@alexgarza4513
Жыл бұрын
@@robpelick7460 Yeah its not really "swing" like jazz drummers play, but more a deeper, subconscious musical intuition of where to place notes subtly before and after the beat and push and pull the temp that gave their drum tracks that 'it" factor. As technically proficient as Baker was i dont really get that from when i listen to him. Charlie watts also has that invisible "it" factor even thought hes not technical at all
@kantarelljulletjolahopp5607
Ай бұрын
@@robpelick7460 I'm sorry, but the notion that Ginger Baker could never match Bonzo's swing is absurd. I sat in the car the other day listening through Zeppelin's first record. As I came to the finishing track I realized that, however great that song is and however great Bonzo was, the intro to that track has some of the stiffest attempt at swing I've heard from a major drummer.
@jdemarco
3 жыл бұрын
Clapton's "tut tut" response to Moon and Bonham still gives me a chuckle for some reason...Almost like he's politely saying "Oh, don't be an idiot!" Lol
@krisscanlon4051
3 жыл бұрын
Oh its so English and direct.
@Panic42000
3 жыл бұрын
And yet Bonham made more money partied harder and kids today still know Bonham’s name. Ginger died a broke mean old man.
@jdemarco
3 жыл бұрын
@@Panic42000 At least he got to be an old man. Better to be mean than die young.
@Panic42000
3 жыл бұрын
@@jdemarco if you say so!
@jdemarco
3 жыл бұрын
@@Panic42000 I'm living proof...lol
@andrewcruz7595
4 жыл бұрын
*Baker used two bass drums , John used one and could easily sound like 2*
@thenewpollution2
4 жыл бұрын
Baker didn’t play two kick drums for speed, he played them for two different sounds.
@bigmoney4685
3 жыл бұрын
Baker played what bonham dreamed about playing. No comparison
@Biggases777
3 жыл бұрын
@@bigmoney4685 bonham played what bonham wanted, End of discussion
@bigmoney4685
3 жыл бұрын
@@Biggases777 what he wanted to play was inferior to baker. Baker outlived bonham and outplayed him. End of 😂😂😂😂😂
@leonardodavinci3774
3 жыл бұрын
@@bigmoney4685 Baker outlived him. Never outplayed him. Baker probably died crying knowing he would never be better than Thor (Bonzo) or Moonie 🤣🤣
@sagiriizumi8079
3 жыл бұрын
He's right. Bonham isn't anywhere near Ginger. Bonham is 1billion times better, more influential, more dedicated (playing sick and collapsing on stage) and left a dominating legacy.
@nektekket852
3 ай бұрын
Whatever you say Ginge, I'll take Bonzo over you ANY time. X
@dcmastermindfirst9418
2 ай бұрын
Ginger was a much better drummer and actually composed.
@Biggases777
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger says that bonham couldn’t swing, but really bonham most definitely can swing, better than baker. I like ginger and I like his jazz influenced style, but Bonham can out drum baker for sure.
@robertnettleship5467
4 жыл бұрын
deffo. I like baker as a jazz influenced rock drummer - but as a jazz drummer he was very average. Because of this he was a bitter person as he wanted to be known as a jazz drummer.
@dinocozzolino1070
4 жыл бұрын
If you know anything about music , you know John Paul Jones is a multi instrumentalist and a master musician . That being said he said that He enjoyed playing with Bonham because “ he COULD swing like a bastard “. Baker is flippant about Bonhams playing because he couldn’t keep his shit together long enough to achieve the same accolades. That’s too bad cause he truly was a great and inventive drummer. If you asked him , he would tell you that too.
@FunkyMonk_96
3 жыл бұрын
I had to look this up thanks to Bill burr 😂
@dswani5372
3 жыл бұрын
Same
@dcmastermindfirst9418
2 ай бұрын
Bill burr isn't funny
@JoeNocella
3 жыл бұрын
It gets back to drummers being great for their bands. Bonham was great for Zeppelin. Moon was great for the Who and Baker was great for Cream. Could Ginger play Achilles Last Stand and a blistering up tempo version of The Song Remains the Same? Probably not, nor could Moon. But could Bonham sound like Moon in Young Man Blues Live at Leeds? Probably not. Could Bonham or Moon play Ginger's parts in Cream songs? I think so. I think Ginger's playing was great but I think Bonham or Moon could copy it. But I don't think Ginger could play their parts. I don't believe there is a "best" drummer. It all depends on the band and the music.
@MrKeefrichards
3 жыл бұрын
could moon or bonham play gingers parts in the baker gurvits albums most definately not
@bluesque9687
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrKeefrichards Bonham probably would have picked it up if he had got interested... the man was a freak of nature! It is like asking could Jimi Hendrix have played like Paco de lucia?? Yes, he probably would have matched him had he got interested!
@bluesque9687
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrKeefrichards I like a Ginger Baker a lot... smoothest for a drummer!!! But the swing and groove he talks about... he shouldn't have pulled down Bonham after the man is dead! If Bonham would have got down to it he would've redefined wotvr genre or drumming Ginger Baker was into it!! Bonham died young and wild... had he matured and mellowed down a bit... he would have done it all!!
@Panic42000
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrKeefrichards And yet Bonham made more money and kids today still know Bonham’s name. Ginger died a broke mean old man.
@lexdunn4160
2 жыл бұрын
I think you don't know a fucking thing about playing drums.
@micko5664
Жыл бұрын
Interestingly, later in the same interview Baker was asked which drummers he admired and he said John Bonham.
@AlbertoJorgeSoares
Жыл бұрын
LOL
@mthomas1973
2 жыл бұрын
John Bonham is the THE greatest rock drummer of all time. Nobody else had the unique combination of Sound, Groove, technical ability, dynamics, power and sensibility. He knew when to get on top and when to lay back. His drumming was more about feel than perfection. He had that incredible right foot and don't forget about his hi-hat work and those sick fills, that are often never mentioned (overlooked). He remains the All Around perfect drummer for rock. He could have played in a Funk band or a Metal band just the same. He was extraordinary
@peejay6930
2 жыл бұрын
To be fair Bonham was a good drummer, but nowhere near Baker's level, ask a drummer
@mthomas1973
2 жыл бұрын
@@peejay6930 that depends on what drummer you ask. Not u
@peejay6930
2 жыл бұрын
@@mthomas1973 "that depends on what drummer you ask" That's true, ask some good ones' I'm quite sure they will concur, It's not just a case of "Led Zep are my favourite band, so the drummer must be the best"
@mthomas1973
2 жыл бұрын
@@peejay6930 You sound like one of those idiots that thinks Bonham couldn't swing, that he was just decent. I can bet you out of 100 random rock drummers Bonham will be on top of the list for his Sound and Style alone, not to mention the influence he had on future players.
@peejay6930
2 жыл бұрын
@@mthomas1973 Bonham was a decent drummer, it's just that Baker was better..... how is that my fault?
@sicotshit7068
7 ай бұрын
A bigger difference in what makes Bonham better then Ginger, Bonham wasn’t so full of himself. Hands down Bonham was far greater then other so called drummers.
@iwanwilliams8762
3 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker was an angry young, middle aged and old man, he was his own worst enemy as he seemed to hate everybody. Great drummer though.
@didncozosksma4466
3 жыл бұрын
Sucks that such great talent was bestowed on a waste of flesh and bone
@tachikomakusanagi3744
2 ай бұрын
Ginger's biggest problem was that he was a very unpleasant man. That's why people rate the phenomenally talented Moon and Bonham above him, because they were funny and humble guys.
@robwalsh9843
3 жыл бұрын
The first Cream song I ever heard was I Feel Free, I remember hearing a tamborine and nothing else. The first Led Zeppelin song I ever heard was Black Dog, I was scared at how violent the drums sounded. The first Who song I ever I ever heard was Won't Get Fooled Again, it sounded like a lunatic with drumsticks. I've gotten aquatinted with Ginger Baker's work, but he just doesn't excite me the way Bonham and Moon did.
@IronMaiden4281
3 жыл бұрын
Do what you like- Blind Faith. Easily some of Gingers best drumming. a whole section of the song dedicated to a drum solo
@theblakex
3 жыл бұрын
The whole Disraeli Gears album is nothing but masterpiece drumming, which set the stage for every rock drummer after
@robpelick7460
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Baker's work with Cream was probably his best, but he could never match Bonham or even Moon (before he burned out). I still remember Elvin Jones' brutal put down of Baker after listening to his solo on the Blind Faith LP: "Nothing happening. They should make him (Baker) an astronaut and send him into space." LOL
@HankFinkle11
Жыл бұрын
@@robpelick7460 Moon? Give me a break. He’s the most overrated drummer in rock history. All theatrics and very little technique. Even John Entwhistle admitted he couldn’t keep time worth a crap, the first job of any drummer. You can make a good argument about Bonham (though I personally think Baker is a notch higher), but not Moon.
@jrkchannel37
Жыл бұрын
You cant compare Cream with Led Zep. Just because they sold more and got more success doesnt mean that Cream was any lesser. Remember that Cream plowed the grounds that Led Zep took off from. The Cream didnt have the same backing as ZepLed and the scene was totally new when they started out. Just ask the roadie who worked with both bands..
@MrFchank
2 ай бұрын
Ian Paice was easily the best rock drummer of that era.
@michaelgarcia2050
Жыл бұрын
Sometimes brutal honesty is necessary. But yes, Ginger Baker was a few notches above Bonham. And even more notches above Moon. kzitem.info/news/bejne/1JmkmGyBbWihpZg
@DSM9
3 ай бұрын
Long-time drummer here. Genuine request: Someone please point me in the direction of albums/videos showcasing Ginger Baker's playing which made Eric Clapton so enthuse about Baker's "musical capabilities" and totally dismiss John Bonham out of hand. Big fan of Bonham, Neil Peart, Stewart Copeland, Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd and many other great players. Baker must have passed me by.
@thewintergardener2873
3 ай бұрын
Agreed... I can name one iconic, influential and easily recognizable Bonham beat after another ... I can't think of much more from Ginger than what he did on White Room with Cream...
@lewistyler462
Жыл бұрын
Ginger is always good for a laugh.
@dcmastermindfirst9418
2 ай бұрын
He's also right. And Clapton backed him up. Bonham couldn't play half the complex rhythms that Baker played Same went for Moon. Both were amateurs in comparison
@lewistyler462
2 ай бұрын
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 So, there's no need to compare them then. They were in different bands and had different styles.
@Stublinsky
Ай бұрын
In this video, both Mr. Baker and Mr. Clapton spoke the truth, and plenty of people can't handle the truth !
@brussellification
4 жыл бұрын
Bonham made the drums sound like a thunderstorm. Ginger hit the drums like a soft wind. THAT is the difference between them. Bonham all day.
@CharlesDarwinHimself
4 жыл бұрын
Baker was algo really good. A piece of shit, but a great drummer
@Biggases777
4 жыл бұрын
@Bru Rred ha you used that same insult on my comment “you’re delusional and clearly hard of hearing”
@Blackphillipsupporter
3 жыл бұрын
Bill Burr brought me here
@joshhorne
3 жыл бұрын
Same!!
@zackmccrea4731
3 жыл бұрын
How does bill burr have anything to do with this?
@jmobbinfoo4838
3 жыл бұрын
@@zackmccrea4731 Bill saw the documentary and mentioned this scene on his podcast a few times over the years. He's got nothing but respect for both and he's also an amateur drummer himself.
@sunnychaser6356
3 жыл бұрын
What the ego Mr. Baker
@gianluca2114
3 жыл бұрын
Baker said that Bonham couldn't swing a sack of shit...I guess he never listened Fool in the rain!!! Clapton and Baker were always envy that Zeppelin were way more famous and successful than them!!!
@jesusbuddhacultcom8130
3 жыл бұрын
Clapton was the most acclaimed and famous guitarist of the 1960s apart from Jimi Hendrix. George Harrison, Keith Richards, and John Lennon of course were more famous., but not virtuosos. Zeppelin sold much more than Clapton, and could lend him money! but were less wealthy than the Beatles (I guess).
@tonyfazioli8579
4 жыл бұрын
Baker was a master. However, to say that Bonham couldn’t swing a sack of shit is just inaccurate.
@steveheath9897
2 жыл бұрын
Listen to Jim Fox of the James Gang...”walk away”. He was another unknown, underrated drummer.
@snarecat3441
Жыл бұрын
Amen
@shadowraptorpitalion5869
Жыл бұрын
Great drummers mentioned in this video like Ginger Baker, John Bonham, Keith Moon, and Princess Diana.
@EAMCFC
5 ай бұрын
They were all good at making a lot of noise 👍🏻
@danlc95
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger's drumming sounded like a rickety bird falling down a staircase. He swung like a rusty gate. Bonham had swing for days. All the feel in the world.
@jonathanfildes220
8 ай бұрын
'He couldn't swing a sack of shit'. That is the greatest piece of English language I have ever heard.
@scottlandry4325
2 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker got by but he wasn't on Bonham's level and I think he new it that's why he talked bad about Bonham
@bluesque9687
11 ай бұрын
I find Ginger baker a really really great drummer.... infact he in many ways had so much in him that we didn't get to hear! I just love him in cream! I find Bonham's playing heavy and he sort of filled it all up with every bit of it... every zep member was the lead hero in the band! But nobody can replicate Bonham and he certainly had a lot of groove... purely on potential, Bonham was way greater than Ginger Baker or Keith Moon or Mitch Marsh or Ringo.... but in Zeppelin he went the zeppelin route-- he was just 32 when he died! Had he played more for other bands and lived longer, we could have seen the full range!
@adrianbergman7397
3 жыл бұрын
Ginger was pretty average on the drums( kinda sloppy). He believes he was a jazz drum yet cream were far from jazz. To say Bonham couldn’t swing was a insult.
@rishabhaniket1952
3 жыл бұрын
All respect to Clapton...but the way he just downright dismisses Bonham and Keith, I just can't remeber any original Clapton composition apart from Layla. The guy has literally built a career covering and improvising blues standards.
@christopherhughes9787
2 жыл бұрын
And now being a crazy old man conspiracy theorist. Super disappointing.
@matthewcoombs3282
Жыл бұрын
Never understood the fuss about Clapton. Decent guitar player for sure. None of his stuff moves me the way say Duane Allman or Jimmy Page's work does.
@FrostRare
2 жыл бұрын
There’s a clip of John Bonham’s son playing funk when he was 6 years old. So John Bonham couldn’t play swing? Weird.
@scottlandry4325
2 жыл бұрын
I think Jason Bonham at 6yrs old was better than baker
@AlbertoJorgeSoares
Жыл бұрын
@@scottlandry4325 Lol
@johnhead6116
Жыл бұрын
Bonham was one of the GOAT (and most successful) rock drummers. Why tf did he need to swing, Ginger?? Like the drum part for Sunshine of Your Love was so complex?
@KendraAndTheLaw
6 ай бұрын
Bonzo could swing. Like a magician.
@thiggs93
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker was great. But John Bonham was greater.
@jackmalenkov5474
3 жыл бұрын
You would have to be dumb to think otherwise... Like Ginger for instance.
@MrKeefrichards
3 жыл бұрын
nah!
@ryancaneris1035
3 жыл бұрын
Baker doesn’t have shit on bonham
@clt8762
Жыл бұрын
The truth is that when Bonzo arrived, no one had heard this in rock and he made a lot of shade to his famous colleagues . Some have never digested it.
@drummer78
5 ай бұрын
There is a lot of butthurt in the comments section but Ginger was playing Ronnie Scott’s jazz club at a time when a lot of the English musicians were in backyard skiffle type groups. Ginger definitely wasn’t one for pleasantries but he wasn’t wrong about his place in the British music hierarchy of drummers. Music tastes changed and he wasn’t aware or didn’t care but I think his biggest blunder was failing to recognize that his own innovations was being matched or furthered. Still, Ginger was a master drummer, yet he never truly embraced his UK drumming peers. I think Ginger always felt more at home with drummers like Art Blakey and Max Roach. Ginger was a jazz drummer but he was made his name in rock. He never could be happy just acknowledging that and instead “dissed” some extremely talented drummers who were “rock”. Too bad as Ginger was an artist of the drums but his personality overshadows his work.
@ktw70
2 жыл бұрын
People are mad at Baker, but he was making points. Moon and Bonham were powerful drummers, but they didn't have Baker's swing and finesse. I also think that Baker's disdain for everything that came after him is generational, too.
@End-Result
Жыл бұрын
You need to unplug your ears
@magster65
3 жыл бұрын
John Bonham swung the hammers of the gods... Ginger who?
@theblakex
3 жыл бұрын
GINGER BAKER the original classic rock drummer
@buick4622
3 жыл бұрын
@@theblakex just because Ginger is older that doesn't make him better. Ginger isn't known for shit!
@ratonmagico
2 жыл бұрын
BAKER, GINGER BAKER
@CJDUBstang
2 жыл бұрын
Baker is like 100x better
@plasticweapon
8 ай бұрын
guys, don't sink to ginger's level just because he didn't want to give bonham the credit he deserved. they were both great drummers.
@blackstonpoetrymusic8744
2 жыл бұрын
0:48 lol Clapton's feelings about zep
@Ash_Hudson
Жыл бұрын
Bitterness.
@macarthur71
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger was a bitter old fool. Here's the thing...Ginger was great. He deserves his props, but his dismissivness of Bonham proves he was simply bitter and jealous. Bonham absolutely could swing, had great technique. Bonham is widely regarded as a basher and he certainly did play loud, but that's what much of Zep required. Bonham was a much more versatile drummer than what he got credit for. And I think many folks (esp critics) simply thought of Zeppelin as some loud (which they were) bashers and screamers. As for the Clapton clip, please...Clapton is without question one of the most overrated guitarists of that era, or any for that matter. What he did early in his career was important and groundbreaking, but he simply gave that up and became a traditionalist. And incredibly boring as a guitar player. Page was infinitely more talented and versatile. JPJ was/is one of the most underrated musicians of that era and Plant was a fantastic blue eyed soul singer that basically gave the template for just about every frontman that followed. Zeppelin was better is every way which leads me to my final point and most important... Zeppelin was incredibly successful and changed the leverage that bands had over venues and promoters. They were the first to shift the power balance and were the first to make serious money. There are interviews out there for Pete Townsend (another bitter one, also) that talks about how they would come home for touring America and would have made virtually no money. And I think is the most important angle. Many of those groups were majorly Jealous of Zeppelin. There have been some bitter comments by Townsend and Richards to name a few. I really think that was a major factor in some of these guys not 'liking' Zep...I don't think it had near as much to do with the music.
@jesusbuddhacultcom8130
4 жыл бұрын
You are in Love. I don’t scoff at that. It’s a wonderful feeling with a band. It sounds like Ginger Baker was close to being a psychopath. Apparently he is possibly the best British drummer of that era. This doesn’t mean he gives balanced opinions. The thing is, the greatest bands are much much better than the sum of their individual parts. It’s one of the beautiful things about teams, the greatest bands - The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, BM and the Wailers, Fleetwood MAC etc. etc. Are all teams that would have gotten not that far as individuals. Surely you agree? I’m wondering whether you write the above from a parallel universe where the Beatles didn’t exist, as the obviously could have raked in cash touring. As for Townsend he is 99% negative emotions - resentment and jealousy (having read his autobiography). He actually says on KZitem somewhere that He can’t tolerate Led Zep as at one point they were selling so many more records than the Who. At leat he is honest. Who’s Next though is an Amazing album. Not sure I agree with you about Clapton. People LOVED him as the highest in London until Hendrix came along and showed him how God would play a guitar. Have you heard ‘White Room’ - Clapton is a tasteful guitarist. A virtuoso . Keith Richards is not humble but he is honest. He doesn’t like Zep that much. The Stones are not heavy rock. He’s another one who is not that respectful.
@macarthur71
4 жыл бұрын
The Diana Clone Movie don’t disagree much w what your saying. I didn’t address the Beatles as they certainly could have been a beast on the road had they wanted to do that. Not sure that makes my point invalid. As for Clapton, agree he was tasteful. And his early work was great which explains his adoration. My point was that when he made the decision to stop moving forward and became a blues traditionalist, he became very boring, IMO. Doesn’t mean I think he sucks but I think really wasted his talent, to a degree. So I don’t think we disagree much.
@megshimatsu8615
4 жыл бұрын
Few talk about Richie Blackmore, but he was a much better guitar player than Clapton.
@macarthur71
4 жыл бұрын
Meg Shimatsu agree completely
@AlbertoJorgeSoares
4 жыл бұрын
Bonham was one of the very best Rock 'n' Roll drummers ever! Whoever say's he wasn't, is just lying or doesn't know what is talking about.
@righteous.4641
15 күн бұрын
Baker and Bruce hated each other because they would get pissed when one played over the other. They considered themselves the goat's of their craft, but after Cream, none of them did much else. Ginger was in Blind Faith for the only year in existence, but then just gallivanted around telling everyone he's still the greatest. Eric Clapton knew his worth, and the rest is history for him.
@dmcguire70
Жыл бұрын
Good drummer horrible human being. He couldn’t hold a candle to Bonham has has never forgotten it even after Bonzos passing
@CARRINGT0N
3 жыл бұрын
If Baker was a master, Bonham was a genius!
@patrickmacleod2415
2 жыл бұрын
I understand both their backgrounds, and their backgrounds vs talent perfectly fit her comment. Baker had the education. Bonham had the natural born genius.
@dr.strangelove7788
3 жыл бұрын
Bonham, Peart, Mitchell, Gadd, Baker, etc…. So so many and all so good. We can’t really say who’s best.
@Cooz.
2 жыл бұрын
Yes we can. It’s bonham
@liamfitzdrums
2 жыл бұрын
Of those that you mentioned, I'd have to say Gadd based on a few things. Gadd has his own tremendous feel & pocket much like the other drummers listed do BUT Gadd is also more varied as a drummer. His resume of who he's played with is much more varied than most. From crafting the fantastic 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover linear drum pattern with Paul Simon to his brilliant playing with Chick Corea & his astonishing solo on Steely Dan's track Aja. The man's been Claptons drummer for many years now as well. As influential and much more famous as Peart, Bonham, Moon, Baker etc are, my pick goes to Steve Gadd.
@dr.strangelove7788
2 жыл бұрын
@@liamfitzdrums I don’t disagree. He is very good.
@AMCmachine
4 жыл бұрын
Wonder what Ginger thought of Neil Peart or if he ever commented on his playing.
@hetjamesfield4473
4 жыл бұрын
Probablly that he was a piece if shhhhttt.... That is what he was thinking, be sure of that man. He was a full blown heavy evil narc.
@megadave1197
3 жыл бұрын
@@hetjamesfield4473 that’s what I love about Cream. They had arrogance. The Cream of the crop
@sharinglungs3226
3 жыл бұрын
Probably the same thing he thought of Bonham, good technique but not on his level.
@jzac77
3 жыл бұрын
Neil Peart is an incredible drummer, one of the best, he can play anything. But he plays very straight and on the meter. To most people that's desirable, but Ginger could fuck with time and put on this particular lag that was just so fucken cool. It wasn't about his chops it was about his feel. To people that don't understand that, they'd call it "sloppy". It's intentional, it's feel, it's genius. Charlie Watts was the same, as was John Densmore - crucially underrated musicians
@megadave1197
3 жыл бұрын
@@jzac77 Your post doesn’t make sense. You refer to the late Neil Peart in the present tense and Charlie Watts and John Densmore who are both still alive and playing drums in the past tense
@FNAFEDITS171
3 жыл бұрын
Bonham buries Baker.....
@MrKeefrichards
3 жыл бұрын
rubbish, and ginger lived a lot longer
@FNAFEDITS171
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrKeefrichards Ive lived a lot longer than Bonzo too....am I the better drummer?
@jcg2922
Ай бұрын
When Ginger Baker talks about Moon and Bonham not being near the level of drummer he his, he is correct. They weren't jazz drummers who could match Baker's jazz contemporaries like he did. I love all 3 drummers, and I love The Who, Led Zeppelin and Cream. But Ginger was absolutely on a whole other level. I don't know that he ever got to know John Bonham, but he and Moon were definitely pals. I am forgetting which big band they were to see in concert together, but after watching the drummer perform on a double bass kit, they both decided to add a second bass drum to their sets. Moon apparently went out and got his the next day.
@apexjoe4769
4 жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker,John Bonham and my favorite Keith Moon were all great drummers.Very different technique though from each other.Ginger Baker tarnished his legacy with his angry old man attitude.As a musician/drummer he should have respect for the other drummers especially the caliber of drummers he is being compared to.
@didncozosksma4466
3 жыл бұрын
He lived as a jealous young fool, died as a Jealous old fool,
@fenner4117
3 жыл бұрын
Bonham can't swing?? Listen to "Fool in the rain" and tell me that. Baker was a hack, as far as I'm concerned.
@theblakex
3 жыл бұрын
Listen to the drums on ANY Cream song and say Baker was a hack
@fenner4117
3 жыл бұрын
@@theblakex I have and can't count the number of them!
@JB-qr2jq
2 жыл бұрын
@@theblakex Baker was a wanker.
@AndyBaylor
2 жыл бұрын
That’s a shuffle. Incredible, but still shuffle.
@fenner4117
2 жыл бұрын
@@AndyBaylor I wasn't suggesting that Bonham was playing a swing beat on Fool in the Rain. I was using "swing" loosely, like making the song groove like hell, in other words. That's how the term has always been used amongst drummers, generally speaking. But yes, FitR is certainly a shuffle - an incredible one :)
@55thomo
3 жыл бұрын
I love all three of them, make that four I was forgetting Peart!
@SimpleManGuitars1973
3 жыл бұрын
Chad Smith aint no slouch either for that matter.
@mjp96
3 жыл бұрын
And Charlie Watts. Not just saying that because he just passed on. Baker, Moon, Bonzo, Watts - they are my Mt. Rushmore.
@carpenoctem775
2 жыл бұрын
Rush man
@cade9173
2 жыл бұрын
Bonham and Moon both shit on Baker 😂
@shaykosovac8722
Жыл бұрын
Ginger says Tom Brady is a terrible quarterback
@billythecookie9069
4 жыл бұрын
has anyone questioned the clone of our diana yet?
@nortecnadno
4 жыл бұрын
Diana clearly thought Phil Collins was the best drummer in the world, or Ringo
@manictree5436
2 жыл бұрын
Clapton shows ignorance here. He probably doesn't even know about Bonham's constant nods to Max Roach when soloing.
@dcmastermindfirst9418
2 ай бұрын
How the fuck is Clapton ignorant??? The best blues guitar player of all time. I'll take his opinion over yours
@stlrockn
3 жыл бұрын
I think Clapton's comments speak volumes...
@dcmastermindfirst9418
2 ай бұрын
They do! You're smarter than most of this comment section. Baker was a fully accomplished musician. Bonzo and Moon were both amateurs
@stormbringercoming8105
2 жыл бұрын
Baker was no doubt a miserable SOB that alienated everyone around him. His comments on Moon and Bonham aren’t necessary. But they were nowhere near Baker’s level. Ginger was in the master class.
@JohnM0rris
3 жыл бұрын
Man talk about, "People don't talk about me"😤. Boi you never mentioned Mitch Mitchell. He would run circles all over his ass.
@pipis920
4 жыл бұрын
Baker was good drummer.. Just good drummer,, and Bonham is class up of Baker..
@funnypete3802
4 жыл бұрын
nope...
@gabrielcervantes6852
4 жыл бұрын
Nope nope nope
@Alex-fq4yz
4 жыл бұрын
😂😂
@jones848
3 жыл бұрын
John Bonham is the GOAT
@pipis920
Жыл бұрын
@@gabrielcervantes6852baker is good drummer, that's all
@BigBri550
2 ай бұрын
0:30 I think what Ginger Baker was saying is that Bonham and Moon were pounders, and they were. Neither had any stick technique nor dynamics. Bonham and Moon were great for the groups they were in, and the ways they completed their sound.
@r.uthere.6201
2 жыл бұрын
I remember when I was 13 (1984) My older sister had Cream Wheels on Fire, I sat down and listen to :Born under a bad sign: Thought the guitarist was great, the drummer kept it groovy and I thought it was cool. Then I remember couple weeks later digging through my older sisters album collection and seeing this cover of the Hindenburg Blimp erupting in flames, I was amazed, didn't even play the album yet. My sister walked in saw me staring at the album cover and said "Play the last song on side two, it's the best rock blues song you will hear." I played it and was scared of that riff and how this young blond hair dude was screaming about having 7 kids and another on the way...." I sat there wide eye by the drumming and how the guitarist and drummer seem to be battling each other. I was hooked I laughed at the silly Cream album and knew that Led Zeppelin was the band for me. BTW that my first introduction to Led Zeppelin was How many more times. wow!
@bowlingstoned2113
2 жыл бұрын
"How Many More Times" was the best way for Zep to end their debut album. Every time I hear it I feel like I'm listening to it for the first time.
@krostandis8408
2 жыл бұрын
Bonham was the greatest Rock drummer of all time! He made a school out of his palying. It is more than obvious that Baker was jelous of John Bonham.
@CJDUBstang
2 жыл бұрын
not really he said Charlie Watts has better feel than Bonham
@bigmoney4685
7 ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂why do so many drummers copy bonham and not baker example toad. Thats because bonhams drumming is easier . No way could bonham have played bakers solo to toad no chance. All this greatest drummer, portnoy can play anything bonham could have played and more. 😂😂😂😂
@alightthatnevergoesout
2 жыл бұрын
Jazz players have such an inferiority complex about rock music, and their egos are ridiculously overbearing. This hurt Ginger. If he had embraced rock music he’d have made countless iconic songs. His drumming on White Room is enough to inspire anyone to pick up the sticks. Instead, he constantly battled with Bruce, denied Cream was ever a rock band, only referred to himself as a Jazz player, and left a lot to be desired. All that said, still the greatest drummer i’ve heard.
@reorkberserker4626
4 жыл бұрын
Bonham and Moon couldint swing a sac of shit lol what drum solo made Ginger popular ....... cricket sound
@romo2674
4 жыл бұрын
Pure trash, mate.
@FazMaTaz
3 жыл бұрын
Toad
@georgevanderlaan5028
Ай бұрын
"No, no, no. Ginger was nothing like those guys." Poor Ginger.
@bf2450
4 жыл бұрын
Cream couldn't hold Zepps nuts. GTFO out of here Clapton.
@nortecnadno
4 жыл бұрын
Zeppelin were a much much better band than Cream but NOT the individual players. A band is more than its individuals, that’s the beauty of a band. The Beatles were very average players but about 100 times better than Cream.
@nortecnadno
4 жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/mWOrtX6XbYR5ZaQ The last half of Keith Richards video says it all
@jamesmacaw3865
4 жыл бұрын
@@nortecnadno Zeppelin were a "better band" than Cream ONLY cause they were around longer. if Cream had stood the course, their music would have been far more revolutionary (in the vain of forthcoming Sabbath & Nirvana) and better melodically
@nortecnadno
4 жыл бұрын
I won’t disagree with you because probably what you say has meaning, BUT they could never be around longer because of Ginger’s personality it would seem. To produce a long series of great albums or in fact to be in a great soccer team requires more than great players, there has to be a stability there. For example I honestly think the Beatles would have been a better band with Keith Moon on drums or Eric Clapton on guitar, but the reality is that band would probably have fallen apart after 1 or 2 albums and the great songs they wrote would simply not have have happened. Though ‘While My Guitar Gently Weeps’ feature Eric Clapton, Clapton in the Beatles probably would have thought he needed to make more credible bluesy music for one, or looked down on their musicianship, or ended up into disruptive heroin episodes for one.
@bf2450
4 жыл бұрын
@@nortecnadno Well IMO the only thing individually Cream may have over Zepp is Baker over Bonham, and I'm not completely sold over that. Lyrically plant owns them.JPJ is better than Bruce, and most would say Page tops Clapton.
@terriehallman228
2 жыл бұрын
Bitter old man. I probably would be too after seeing Led Zeppelin rise to the top largely because of Bonham’s unmistakable sound. Baker was just good enough to qualify as a flash-in-the-pan musician. Bingham is something entirely different!
@jimmyledhead380
3 жыл бұрын
Ginger was a great musician! His comments here sound very bitter..feels he isn’t getting the credit he deserves..sick of all the accolades for Bonham and Moon. Bonham always showed Ginger respect!! Would Ginger be talking like this if Moon or Bonham were alive?? Probably not!!! Ginger’s comment that Bonham couldn’t swing …just downright ridiculous. There is nothing more unappealing than an artist bragging about themselves..history will tell us all we need to know!!
@chrisradano
Жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker is absolutely correct about one thing. When he says the general public is dumb.
@matthewcoombs3282
Жыл бұрын
Of course both of us are not included in that statement are we ;)
@shaykosovac8722
Жыл бұрын
He was an elitist.
@ixoye56
2 ай бұрын
Baker is spot on about Bonham. Lots of power, speed, and precision, but no swing.
@beatleszilla
4 жыл бұрын
I love Ginger Baker’s style for the same reason I love Ringo Starr’s. Both drummers didn’t just bang the drums, they were musicians, they played to the song, without overplaying and filling in spots with a little spark where they needed to. Plus, both had great swing, Ringo was a master of the shuffle.
@youngcolkie9363
3 жыл бұрын
So did bonzo.
@ryukenhondaraiden252
3 жыл бұрын
Quincy Jones would have a different opinion on that.
@SimpleManGuitars1973
3 жыл бұрын
@@ryukenhondaraiden252 I'm curious what you mean. Did Quincy Jones think Ringo or Ginger weren't very good?
@ryukenhondaraiden252
3 жыл бұрын
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 yeah he stated in an interview a few years ago that ringo aint shit.
@SimpleManGuitars1973
3 жыл бұрын
@@ryukenhondaraiden252 Man. Even Danny Carrey from Tool thought Ringo was awesome.
@chefandy72
3 жыл бұрын
I believe Ginger understood that listening to music is a talent. It rings true. Not everyone can have talent, if everyone did the word would mean something different. It makes sense as well by looking at how much of popular music is truely horrible. Comsumerism has created advertising as our culture and we are all less than what we should be. No wonder he turned to Olive farming. Opinions are are like assholes, i don't consider Ginger Baker's words opinion.
@nilla003
2 жыл бұрын
Calling listeners idiots is very endearing.
@mu-soguy
4 жыл бұрын
This whole documentary was A grade ass kissing exhibition. Saying Moon couldn't swing, despite his origins as a rhythm & blues drummer and the majority of songs on The Who's My Generation LP from '65 being pure jazzy swing tunes. As for what Clapton said, not sure how much ear and sense of harmony Ginger has when a minute into any of his solos I'm fuckin half asleep...
@mu-soguy
3 жыл бұрын
Like I said, pure ass kissing. First off, that African drummer thing is anecdotal and even if it wasn't it's just subjective. Newsflash, folks in Africa weren't exactly known for playing Ludwig and Zildjian in the old days... Second, the master himself Elvin Jones listened to Moon and Baker side by side in an interview; _applauded_ Keith, and totally slammed Ginger. I guess you think he's not qualified to judge drummers either? Please go buy yourself a pair of ears. Maybe a brain too while you're at it.
@eliborg
3 жыл бұрын
@@mu-soguy and Elvin was supposedly one of Baker’s influences lmao
@missdee4927
3 жыл бұрын
That's the thing I hate about music documentaries. The ass kissing from various biased interviewees. And they always love to put down the person's peers to make the subject look better.
@DirtyArnie
2 ай бұрын
This is hillarious. We have jazzy rock and rocky rock musicians battling over who is the least degenerate.
@theshadester0
Ай бұрын
Bonzo had more swing/groove/feel/musicianship in one foot than Baker had at all…ever!!!
@williambriggs79
3 жыл бұрын
Baker was a great drummer . But Clapton is talking bollocks here.
@randybailin4902
Жыл бұрын
Ginger Baker and Charlie Watts were both primarily jazz drummers. Charlie famously said that he didn't like rock and roll and that he just played drums in Mick and Keith's band. Keith on Bonham's heavy-handed drumming: "He put the led (like pencil lead) in Led Zeppelin"
@LPJack02
6 ай бұрын
RIP Ginger Baker (August 19, 1939 - October 6, 2019), aged 80 RIP Charlie Watts (June 2, 1941 - August 24, 2021), aged 80 RIP Keith Moon (August 23, 1946 - September 7, 1978), aged 32 RIP John Bonham (May 31, 1948 - September 25, 1980), aged 32 You will be remembered as legends.
@jennifersman7990
3 жыл бұрын
Like Charlie Watts, Ginger was a jazz drummer who just wound up in a classic rock band and became famous
@ninjavigilante5311
3 жыл бұрын
Charlie could swing beautifully.
@robertmcgiverin
4 күн бұрын
Mr Baker knew how to rock the kit but having said that there's a lot of other drummer's that would be right on his ass John Bonham and Neil Peart come to mind 😊
@rumbalala
3 жыл бұрын
Baker played well for Cream, but never thought he had much feel. His so called 'battle' with Elvin Jones was just a vanity project for him; Jones was absolutely masterful, and he summed up Baker best: "Cat's got delusions of grandeur. They should make him an astronaut and lose his ass". As for Bonham and Moon - they both had more innate musicality and rhythmic personality than Baker. Decent drummer, but not iconic. Massive ego though, but arrogance doesn't make you a better drummer.
@chazbakes5873
4 жыл бұрын
Moonie is the GOAT
@sharinglungs3226
3 жыл бұрын
Moon is really sloppy but it fits his personality perfectly. I can’t imagine how hard it is to play with him.
@The-Contractor
7 ай бұрын
Ginger was a complete musician who just happened to have chosen the drums. Amazing touch and sense of rhythm.
@zoso73
Жыл бұрын
0:47 Love Eric's reaction.
@ricklannis6244
2 күн бұрын
Interesting because the drumming in Cream never really stood out as that complex to me.
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