when I was younger I thought the HDR in HL2's episodes was just a fun little detail to represent Gordon's eyes adjusting, and had no idea it was a side effect of an actual proper graphics-related feature
@spiderjerusalem8505
9 ай бұрын
I always hated HDR in first source because it never used correct color transformation to display the image, but Source 2 does... And it does it quite poorly :/
@justaweeb14688
9 ай бұрын
@@2kliksphilip It looks like youre on windows 10. Why are you complaining about hdr when youre not on windows 11? windows 11 has far better hdr support.
@koye4427
9 ай бұрын
@@justaweeb14688 They backported all the Windows 11 HDR features to Windows 10 after backlash. The "improved" HDR support has been on both 10 and 11 since the feature has existed.
@vitalsignscritical
9 ай бұрын
@@justaweeb14688 I'm going back to windows 10, win11 sucks too much, the HDR is more than serviceable on Windows 10. Should count our blessings, Linux doesn't even have HDR yet, but it's coming soon. I will take some time for all distro's to update though after Ubuntu gets it first. I'm guessing through Gnome, though I'm not too much of a famaliar user to Linux as I've never ran it as my daily driver, so it's only possible to know and learn so much, it's quite hard to keep learning as I go, but the Linux command stucture is much easy to get used to and remember than the commands used in windows terminal programs, CMD, Powershell, etc.
@Frille512
9 ай бұрын
Because windows 11 sucks ass@@justaweeb14688
@IAhmadGT
9 ай бұрын
You know it's gonna be a good video when Philip starts it with caboosing
@epj0211
9 ай бұрын
Caboosi blz
@Flashv28
9 ай бұрын
As soon as I heard it, I busted right into the caboossy
@Trovosity
9 ай бұрын
Lmao
@epj0211
9 ай бұрын
@@Flashv28 Oh my!
@WangleLine
9 ай бұрын
Yesss :]
@HalfDayHero
9 ай бұрын
I get the impression at times that not even game devs understand HDR. Seeing only a brightness slider in the HDR settings is deeply concerning.
@ernestochang1744
9 ай бұрын
With the way things are going today im surprised they even know watt ambient occlusion is anymore lol, it looks like all the old people back in 2005 forgot to teach the new generation of coders/programmers, and computer nerds how to make proper games because the ammount of shit spewing out from the gaming industry HAS been deeply concerning
@EggEnjoyer
9 ай бұрын
@@ernestochang1744 Theyre two different groups of people. The old leaders of industry were tech enthusiasts and fanatics. The new people in the industry are just kids who went to college and then got a job. When things are institutionalized, you get more mediocrity. You've now got game devs who dont even really play games much, but hey they went to college for it.
@it-s-a-mystery
9 ай бұрын
@@ernestochang1744This is a weird comment to read in such a fantastic year for videogames ..
@ernestochang1744
9 ай бұрын
@@it-s-a-mystery tell that to forza motorsport other then that youre right it has been a solid year for gaming, maybe the tides are turning
@KiraSlith
9 ай бұрын
@@it-s-a-mysteryIt'd be more honest to say 2022 was a good year, 2023 has been mostly dead water. Even then, 2022 was still a ways off any single year in of the golden era from 2000 to 2013, where Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo were all releasing top tier titles like miniguns spit lead. A time when "I don't have time to play all these games" was a legitimate problem rather than a sign of an untreated "Games as a Service" addiction destroying your life. Don't get me wrong, an improvement is an improvement, but there have been scant few actually good AAA games since, most of which came from either Bandai Namco or Square Enix. Most everything else having been Indie releases serving niche genres that'd been dead since the early 90s, and survival crafting games. Which, good for the people who were looking forward to the return of the platformer, and rogue/rogue-lites, but they're also not game genres the bulk of gamers from that 2000-2013 era are looking for. Oh, and Hifi Rush fits in here somewhere. Meanwhile, where are the action tactical shooters like Rainbow Six Vegas? Pulse pounding racing games like Full Auto and Burnout? Third person Action Adventures had a pair of R&C games. FPS RPGs had Cyberpunk 2077 (after 2 months of patching) and Starefield at a stretch. The straight FPS genre just has CoD left, which devolved into insulting it's audience, and Warzone. The only 2000s era genre not only surviving but thriving, is Action RPGs courtesy the previously mentioned Bandai Namco and Square Enix.
@Skazzy3YT
9 ай бұрын
When Windows 11 first launched, I was under the impression that Auto HDR would be a feature that turned on HDR on your monitor when a HDR source like a game was running and back to SDR when viewing SDR content. Imagine my surprise when I found out what it actually does.
@mateboros952
9 ай бұрын
I turned on Auto HDR on windows 11 and I have HDR screen but it do a shit... My screen doesn't get the signal to change to HDR mode... Its useless until I manually turn on HDR on my screen or in windows I force HDR, then my screen instantly switch to hdr mode.
@samcerulean1412
9 ай бұрын
They are working on that, I think HDR10+ supports that feature which Windows is switching to at somepoint.
@montagepl
9 ай бұрын
I use it with my 3 monitors in Nvidia and it work grate when in Windows 11 or Battlefield 2042
@Web720
9 ай бұрын
What does it do? I also remember Xbox talking about how they made an OG Xbox backcompat with the Series X with full HDR support.
@flamingscar5263
9 ай бұрын
AutoHDR is really good tho, I upgraded to windows 11 for that reason specifically and in 9/10 scenarios autoHDR makes the image look better then what my display would show in SDR mode
@molsen7549
9 ай бұрын
Doom Eternal was the first game I played when I got my new OLED monitor, and I was blown away. Unfortunately, it set up unreal expectations for me for the future.
@joshlee7935
9 ай бұрын
Surprisingly Modern Warfare 2019 has a pretty good HDR implementation. Its settings aren’t as in-depth as Doom: Eternal but they make the game pop when calibrated properly.
@thenonexistinghero
9 ай бұрын
Dunno if you played it, but Gears 5 has incredible HDR as well and I think the best I've seen in a game so far. The reason it looks so good because they changed the way the lighting works when you turn on HDR to properly take advantage of HDR.
@tomatosbananas1812
9 ай бұрын
AC Origin and Odissey too, with the settings "max lumens" and "white paper" 👍
@ProexProduction
9 ай бұрын
Try Metro Exodus too, also insane HDR implementation
@Big_Red1
9 ай бұрын
The only game I've played on my OLED that seems to have proper black levels in HDR mode is Shadow of the Tomb Raider (haven't played Doom since getting it, will have to try it). Most that I've tried don't have true black and it is REAAAAAAAAALY annoying.
@HQ_Default
9 ай бұрын
Despite the Source Engine's HDR being fake, using a simulation of the player's eyes adjusting to differing light levels is actually a really clever way of replicating HDR in the context of a video game.
@Qwertworks
9 ай бұрын
In bad company 2 that also happened. I generally really like the look of the old frostbite 2 engine in Bad Company 2
@ezraho8449
8 ай бұрын
It’s enabled by default in Unreal Engine. It’s called adaptive exposure. The problem is that devs don’t get very much control over it. In most cases it’s easier to build two lighting environments. One indoor one outdoor. And program a transition between the two when you walk through the doorway.
@smergthedargon8974
7 ай бұрын
I fucking hate that shit in video games My eyes will do the adjustment for me!
@MrBluelightzero
7 ай бұрын
@@smergthedargon8974 Wouldn't work unless you had a HDR monitor.
@smergthedargon8974
7 ай бұрын
@@MrBluelightzero But we're talking about Source Engine eye adaptation, AKA fake HDR, so I _don't need an HDR monitor_
@Gwilo
9 ай бұрын
trying to actually get a HDR video rendered in the correct format is just a nightmare on its own - I've had to upload my KZitem videos directly and use the built-in KZitem editor to trim it lately, otherwise nobody can watch my greyed-out video!
@Ham24brand
9 ай бұрын
I want to make videos in HDR, but no free video editors support it. I can use OBS or Gforce Experience to record it, but it must all be in one take. It's annoying how little support there is for it. The constant marketing of it on almost every TV, monitor, and phone would make you think it would have some good support.
@Sammysapphira
9 ай бұрын
@@Ham24brandUse DaVinci Resolve... it supports it
@thenosid951
9 ай бұрын
Use the HLG color profile
@SlenderSmurf
9 ай бұрын
@@SammysapphiraI got the free version downloaded only for it not to be able to open my Shadowplay files... apparently the paid version can do it
@Fadexz
9 ай бұрын
Might be able to use ffmpeg to handle HDR stuff fine. KZitem will re-encode when trimming as far as I know so not ideal.
@anonony9081
9 ай бұрын
Ori and the will of the wisps is probably the best example of HDR implementation. It looks amazing and the contrast between the bright areas and the dark areas really makes the image pop
@poppysilver
9 ай бұрын
plus the game is bussin
@oscarfriberg7661
9 ай бұрын
Second this. I never understood the point of HDR until I played Ori. That game really showed me the true potential of the images my monitor can produce. It's sad no other media has come close to it ever since.
@BlackParade01
9 ай бұрын
@@oscarfriberg7661I recommend Horizon Forbidden West and Cyberpunk 2077 in HDR.
@Exponaut_R-01
9 ай бұрын
Ori supports HDR?? Surprising, but I guess it makes sense that game is full of light and dark emphasis.
@BadhamKnibbs
9 ай бұрын
I found Tetris Effect was a surprisingly good example of HDR too, the metallic materials in some of the backgrounds floored me with how good they look with HDR on
@PhonicUK
9 ай бұрын
It's probably worth mentioning that the 'HDR' shown in Lost Coast is expressly designed to try and mimic how the human eye sees things to make the experience more immersive. If we're in a dark room then indeed we can't resolve details in the bright outdoors until our eyes adjust.
@joechapman8208
7 ай бұрын
This. And then in games such as Assassin's Creed Unity, it was a clever resource-saving feature that could do double-duty providing realism to the player while cloaking a shift in the technical aspects of the game.
@Case_
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's more eye adaptation than HDR. But they did advertise it as "HDR" back in the day, and quite extensively at that.
@coldfire6869
9 ай бұрын
HDR breaks my warmth screenfilter and results in a sudden flashbang every time
@raffdraws
9 ай бұрын
This is literally what I'm dealing with after buying an HDR monitor. Although I'm happy with Cyberpunk 2077's implementation of it. Even certain areas in Mass Effect : Legendary Edition look great with it.
@LexiHearts3
9 ай бұрын
Have you tried Spiderman 2? The hdr looks really good in all the KZitem clips of it I've seen
@raffdraws
9 ай бұрын
No I don't have a PS5 sadly I'll try it once it's on PC @@LexiHearts3
@1chrisanderson
9 ай бұрын
Cyberpunk needs Reshade with Lilium's black floor fix shader to REALLY look correct IMO. I have an LG C2 OLED and it was night and day after tweaking it this way.
@GCCarsCA
9 ай бұрын
@@LexiHearts3 I've played Spider-Man 1 on PC in HDR and it's probably the best implementation I have personally seen in a PC game
@mopilok
9 ай бұрын
@@GCCarsCA forza 5 is pretty good as well
@mariokotlar303
9 ай бұрын
I feel your frustration, and to do my part I did my best to make HDR in Talos Principle 2 look the way HDR is supposed to look. Given that you really enjoyed the first game, I look forward to hearing how you feel about the HDR implementation in the sequel.
@mariokotlar303
7 ай бұрын
@the_grand_secgend2134 Thanks :) I designed the Activator mechanic, gameplay for ~10% of puzzles, entire South 1 map including all the arhitecture on it, handled technical stuff regarding rendering, light, colorscience, and ofcourse HDR.
@mariokotlar303
7 ай бұрын
@the_grand_secgend2134 ❤️
@CxWxD
9 ай бұрын
Personally I think that well-presented HDR on a high quality HDR screen has a transformative effect, not a subtle one. I really wish it was more readily available in monitors and more widely supported in games and content as a result like you mentioned in the video. It is very much not a gimmick and I think makes images pop far more than any further increases in resolution would (surely 8K TVs have reached the official threshold of diminished returns in that space). I have no knowledge of the amount of extra work or expertise needed for games to present HDR well, but it seems to be significant based on how rare it is lol
@guitarzilla555
9 ай бұрын
"Well-presented" being the key. I thought 3D was transformative when done correctly (like Avatar and Hugo.) But studios just wanted to cash in with cheap 3D conversions and used it as a gimmick. And that's how people remember it.
@LegendaryPlank
9 ай бұрын
I'm of a similar mind. Chasing mega high resolutions for a minute result that a limited number of people even notice seems silly when good HDR representation can improve visuals tenfold in my opinion.
@drunkhusband6257
8 ай бұрын
It is very much a gimmick.....it doesn't make things pop. It's darker, worse colors, it's a huge marketing scam to sell displays.
@joechapman8208
7 ай бұрын
@@drunkhusband6257 You've either watched a bad display (maybe an HDR 400-600 IPS monitor?) or you haven't seen a good HDR 1000 OLED screen properly setup. "Worse colours" suggests you've seen an HDR source in SDR mode, since HDR sources in HDR absolutely do pop. Light-emitting sources look like they actually emit light. It's not going to change anyone's life or make a game or movie different in their memory, but it is seriously nice in the moment.
@drunkhusband6257
7 ай бұрын
Same BS I've heart the last 10 years. HDR is overrated junk tech that needs to go away. Properly calibrated SDR is always better, brighter, and more detailed.@@joechapman8208
@SoggyMicrowaveNugget
9 ай бұрын
You've perfectly encapsulated trying to keep up with the latest tech... most the time its better to just stick to whatever is mainstream.
@kuabarra
9 ай бұрын
Yea, I’m tired of paying an early adopter tax and still get a sub optimal experience. Could save a lot of money and time messing around by waiting a few years for new tech
@kendokaaa
9 ай бұрын
What sucks is HDR has been a thing for a while, it's just still so expensive so not much effort goes into it because few people have HDR monitors. Tons of "HDR-supporting" monitors that can display the signal but few that do it well enough to be worth it
@SkandiTV
9 ай бұрын
@@kendokaaa The dumbest thing is every TV and Phone nowadays is fully OLED or better and perfectly supports HDR, gaming monitors are just so far behind the curve it's laughable.
@mimimimeow
9 ай бұрын
@@kendokaaa Even suckier is 2016 upper range TVs already do in excess of 1000 nits HDR, manufacturers found out ppl have no idea about it so they skimped on brightness until 2021 or so. It's even worse in monitor markets, the price of a proper HDR monitor back then with passable panel quality could buy you a Sony Master Series TV
@marcasrealaccount
9 ай бұрын
It's crazy how there are many "HDR" monitors that are lacking in both brightness and pixel depth, some monitors say they are HDR400 with 8 bits per channel, when in reality they might only be 6+2 (6 bits of actual voltage regulation + 2 bits for a strobing effect) and even then the 400 nits is almost the same as standard monitors can achieve... A proper HDR monitor imho is one with at least 10 real bits of precision per channel with at least 1000 nits brightness, however brightness is less important than color accuracy.
@NeurodivergentSuperiority
9 ай бұрын
is this good advice?
@superslash7254
9 ай бұрын
The problem is the standards bodies don't have no spine and no teeth. They've got no spine to actually say "No, we don't care that it's good advertising, anything below HDR10 is not HDR" and no teeth to actually ENFORCE that in any meaningful way.
@rawhide_kobayashi
9 ай бұрын
really, you should just avoid any "HDR" monitors that aren't OLED at this point. the only ones that are actually good reach OLED pricing, and OLEDs are superior in every way except that one everyone knows about, which is increasingly a non-issue, particularly if you are just using it for gaming / media consumption.
@marcasrealaccount
9 ай бұрын
@@rawhide_kobayashi For me an OLED panel would actually be an extremely dumb choice, primarily because I do development and so I tend to have the same UI open for upwards of 8 to 10 hours a day, and that is generally a bad idea for OLED panels, even on my current LCD panel I end up with a tiny bit of image retention. But yeah if you use your panel to look at changing content then it's not really an issue, unless said content has some static elements... (transparent elements pose a smaller risk)
@michaelr8189
9 ай бұрын
The "HDR 400" certification just feels like a massive scam, and I can't think of any good reasons for why it exists. The best it can do is accept HDR input, but it will always display in SDR. If you're not that literate in the tech (me), then it can be easy to assume a VESA HDR Certified label will get you what you need, even though the 400 label literally can't perform the job. Why is it a thing?
@comradestinger
9 ай бұрын
I think a big factor in lack of game support is game developers being paranoid about what their game will look like on different HDR monitors. With SDR, there's a well established standard to aim for, where artists can go "if it looks good on my screen, it will look good for the player" With HDR, all that goes out the window and you kind of have to do the lighting, camera and postprocess tweaking *all over again* for HDR, with no guarantee it will even look right once it gets to the player.
@LostPhysx
9 ай бұрын
100% same for Raytracing, but you don't see devs ducking around RTX either
@jwhi419
9 ай бұрын
That's non sense. You don't film a movie and worry about peoples tvs not being to display it. You shoot and take advantage of the full rec 2020 with a range of 10,000 cm^2. If no one that doesn't have a mastering monitor can see alot of it. Then you still release it anyways and wait for tvs to catch up. Game devs just don't want to spend the money at all color mastering. Devs don't even adjust their mastering for ray tracing on. They just use the same colors when its turned on and then gamers wonder why the game doesn't look any different at all. Like the witcher 3. No color adjusments.
@cube2fox
9 ай бұрын
The devs of Alan Wake 2 said the artists optimized everything both for SDR and HDR. But reviewers didn't even mention HDR.
@Exoclypse
9 ай бұрын
Most devs don't have HDR screens.
@NickJerrison
9 ай бұрын
@@cube2foxI was about to talk about Alan Wake here. I truly feel like HDR was THE intended way to play in there. In SDR everything feels... washed? It's almost like they made the color range even more restricted. The blacks aren't black enough, the brights aren't bright enough. Almost like in those recent Capcom games where the brightness calibration has you select the darkest and brightest range first but you just go with the default and everything feels gray. Tried it later in HDR and it's by far the superior way to play it, although it sort of fits the "overdarkens" category that Philip mentioned here, so it's not perfect either.
@Catzzye
9 ай бұрын
The more I learn about HDR the less I feel like I actually know about HDR :(
@kendokaaa
9 ай бұрын
Here's a simple explanation: An HDR display can display darkness and very high brightness at the same time. HDR content takes advantage of that. That's it. The stuff about colour banding and deeper colours aren't inherent to HDR. HDR displays usually use a bunch of lighting zones to increase contrast unless they're OLED, where each pixel acts as a lighting zone. Some monitors are advertised as HDR but only fit the HDR-400 standard which might as well not be HDR since it doesn't require local dimming (lighting zones) and it only requires 400 nits which isn't that bright.
@SkandiTV
9 ай бұрын
SDR shows a dark to bright image, HDR can show very very dark to very very bright on the same image.
@dwmexe9474
7 ай бұрын
the dunning kruger effect
@existentialselkath1264
9 ай бұрын
It's next to impossible to take a screenshot in HDR, especially one with a large dynamic range or in stardard formats like EXR. That alone is insane.
@twentysixbit
9 ай бұрын
God the amount of times I forgot I had HDR on and uploaded an screenshot image to discord that looked incredibly grey
@lionelpotatoe1048
9 ай бұрын
If you have an Nvidia gpu you can use Ansel to take HDR screenshots, they came out good for me in AC Odyssey.
@SlenderSmurf
9 ай бұрын
Windows game bar of all things can do this properly. Win+G and click the picture of an old timey camera.
@fennnb
9 ай бұрын
Game bar gives you a hdr image file you can view in the default image viewer and also gives you a properly converted sdr image
@NickJerrison
9 ай бұрын
@@SlenderSmurfGame bar turned out to be more useful to me than I expected it to. Their performance overlay is nice and compact, compared to Geforce's that takes like 15% of the screen, AND game bar's one has VRAM stats as well. The ability to pin almost anything on top of your screen (which includes customizable external crosshairs) is also fantastic.
@KingKrouch
9 ай бұрын
Valve claims that the Steam Deck has better HDR support than Windows, I'd be willing to believe them. Although some games with HDR support like Strange Brigade don't let you turn it on when playing in Gamescope. That being said, have you tried out Special K's HDR retrofitting? It's a game changer for games that don't natively support HDR.
@Omega-mr1jg
9 ай бұрын
Nope, linux does not have proper HDR implementation yet, and Gamescope (which is able to run HDR Games) still isnt perfect at it In the future, Wayland promises HDR as a feature, but thats long in the future.
@mechanicalmonk2020
9 ай бұрын
@@Omega-mr1jg gamescope's HDR _is_ the proper implementation.
@mar2ck_
9 ай бұрын
@@Omega-mr1jgWhat's wrong with Gamescope's HDR? It handles color profiles and screen EDID better than windows and they've used Proton to fix the HDR output in a lot of games so they don't look washed out like they do on Windows.
@comradeklaymore
9 ай бұрын
@@Omega-mr1jg Normal Linux computers don't have HDR support yeah (although KDE Plasma 6 comes out in February and will have basic HDR support). However, since the Steam Deck uses Gamescope all the time and Valve has put a lot of work into HDR, the Steam Deck OLED does have HDR support. If you watch the LTT or Digital Foundry videos you can see them running games in HDR like Cyberpunk and Ori Will of the Wisps.
@DissyFanart
9 ай бұрын
@@comradeklaymorebut but google but google said linux hdr not real how could programmers made it??? Kernel compositor ummm or something like that
@ShinobuX99
9 ай бұрын
I made a significant effort to understand the details behind how HDR works back when I got my first HDR-capable TV. I was very enthusiastic about this tech, as all the demos and such I had seen seemed so striking and vivid. But when I actually tried to understand how to use it, I found almost no solid documentation, and eventually I more or less gave up. Today I use the media player MPC with a plug-in called MadVR to view HDR content on my TV via my PC. No idea how "correct" of a result this provides though. I've tried cross-referencing the appearance by playing the same movies on my phone (via Disney+ for example) and trying to change all the MadVR and TV settings to match that look. I think it's mostly the same now, but honestly who bloody knows. I've tried doing similar things with games. I'm usually very pleased with how PS5 games look in HDR, so in the cases where I own a game on both PS5 and PC, I've tried matching the HDR appearance of the PS5 on the PC. But this is kinda hit-and-miss, because even if one game looks good with one set of settings, others may not. Maybe there just aren't that many PC games that have proper HDR implementations, or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing. I will say though that the PC port of "Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart" looks spectacular. I feel that it looks more or less the same on PC as it does on PS5, which is to say absurdly brilliant. I wouldn't say this is a very good game overall, but it's likely the most visually striking one that I've played, and my go-to example when I want to show off HDR to people who visit. Anyway, cool video. Thanks for providing some more insight into this rather messy topic.
@MrSnaztastic
9 ай бұрын
When using MPC with MadVR it performs tonemapping to compress the colour range like Philip mentioned in the video, so it looks roughly "correct" when viewed in SDR mode, pretty clever honestly. It's made me feel like I'm not particularly missing out by watching my 4K blu rays on PC, which in itself is a difficult thing to get working, but dammit i want to stay on one device.
@ShinobuX99
9 ай бұрын
@@MrSnaztastic MadVR also has the option to pass-through the HDR signal to the display, instead of tone-mapping it into SDR. This is how I do it when playing HDR media on my TV at least, and in this scenario I *think* the TV gets a proper HDR signal, in the same way a 4K Blu-Ray player would send out. But again, who knows, haha.
@G7ue
9 ай бұрын
BF1 also had some good HDR as far as I remember. My issue with HDR on PC is how half the games that support it require you to enable it in the windows settings first. Which always causes issues for me during my normal PC use if I leave it on. Like apps and websites being washed out. I don't want to have to go to that setting and manually toggle it every time I am loading up specific games. So I just end up not using it in those games, despite paying so much for my monitors.
@SkyBorik
9 ай бұрын
Just tried BFV, and it's very great there too
@tobcyxob
9 ай бұрын
In W11 you can adjust SDR brightness to minimize that 'washed out' effect. While my monitor is only HDR10, I now always run in HDR mode.
@raffdraws
9 ай бұрын
There's a shortcut so you don't have to go to that setting each time. It's Windows Key + Alt + B. I turn it on right before launching a game, turn off during work hours. Works well for me.
@mimimimeow
9 ай бұрын
The thing about W10/11 HDR tonemapping is if your display has bang-on accurate EOTF curve, HDR desktop slider (paper white) at 10% would be indistinguishable from an actual calibrated SDR screen at 120 nits, and so you could just enable HDR all the time. It's just that 95% of consumer HDR displays have terrible EOTF at the dark end.. so they look horrible on most displays.
@IAmNeomic
9 ай бұрын
BF1's HDR is actually phenomenal. In SDR mode, the game has the typical video game look-lots of details that pop out, everything's nice and sharp, and the colors are boosted a touch to give everything more of a "hyper-real" look. With HDR on, it's almost like the color pallet is totally different. The saturation is pulled back a bit, the environment almost seems to have more depth, grass and foliage pop in a different way because they stand out more against the more realistic color tones, and everything just has a more natural look to it. Sadly, with BFV, they sort of went back to that "hyper-real" look and even the HDR keeps it, really just affecting the contrast.
@utfigyii5987
9 ай бұрын
Hey Philip, I do not know if you already heard but the new Steam Deck OLED is capable of HDR too. This is big news because there has not been proper HDR for Linux until now.
@BAGG8BAGG
9 ай бұрын
Are you sure that is right? from what I understand X11 is completely unable to display HDR content, It would need a complete rewrite to work, that is why they are hoping to include it in Wayland instead. It's genuinely impossible to find out about HDR stuff in regards to linux right now.
@BAGG8BAGG
9 ай бұрын
@@Sevenhens Cheers for the info :)
@utfigyii5987
9 ай бұрын
@@Sevenhens Plasma 6 is planned to have some level of hdr support and it should be released early next year. When steamos will upgrade to plasma 6 is a whole different story. Exciting stuff!
@zocker1600
9 ай бұрын
@@Sevenhens > The desktop mode runs on wayland At least on my Steam Deck with the latest stable update desktop mode is still running on X11
@gobgonson8053
9 ай бұрын
@@BAGG8BAGG The way Valve is getting around this is by bypassing the desktop environment entirely through gamescope, their wayland-based compositor. In desktop mode you're still stuck with SDR.
@angusthenerd
9 ай бұрын
Editing HDR is absolutely the hardest part. With the correct settings OBS looks identical to the real thing during playback (when VLC isn't lagging from the high bitrate) but exporting it through an editor with settings identical to OBS leaves the lovely bright colours only slightly too pale and I don't have the patience to spend hours tweaking colour and balance levels. HDR is quite the rabbit hole.
@LiterallyPolio
9 ай бұрын
My best HDR experience as someone who bought an LG Ultragear monitor about 6 months ago has been the Dead Space remake. The implementation in that game is just ridiculous. Looks amazing.
@mycelia_ow
9 ай бұрын
The ultragears use HDR 400, it would look even more incredible on a true HDR 10 display
@LiterallyPolio
9 ай бұрын
@@kevinsedwards it's the OLED one. 1440p 240Hz 27", unsure of the model
@LiterallyPolio
9 ай бұрын
@@mycelia_ow been looking into upgrading it since I'm starting to see a little burn in already and I bought the replacement plan at Best Buy. Bought it at nearly full price so I'd get like $850 towards something new. Was looking at the Samsung models since they boast much higher brightness.
@LiterallyPolio
9 ай бұрын
@@kevinsedwards yea that's what I'm looking at. The QDOLEDs look awesome. I'm on an RTX 3080 so I don't want to go too crazy with the resolution but we'll see where we end up.
@ZestyRanchDressing
9 ай бұрын
It's worth noting that HDR support in Windows 11 is much better than Win10, although still far from perfect. Using the HDR Calibration Tool also helps a lot. With the way I have my system set up, HDR is always on, but SDR content and the Windows desktop still look good, and HDR media/games look great in my opinion. AutoHDR is also pretty good for games that don't have native HDR.
@BrotherO4
9 ай бұрын
This, with W11 I now just leave HDR always on, autoHDR on, and simple make SDR brightness nice and low for everyday viewing.
@devlin1991
9 ай бұрын
Agreed. I have an LG C9 (760 nit peak), I created the calibration profile in Windows and set it as the default color profile. That + HDR on and SDR set to a comfortable nit value via the HDR settings looks great and "just works". I run the TV on HGiG mode. Baldurs Gate 3 and Talos Principle 2 both work great. Edit: I do not use auto-HDR, I try to follow creators intent and play SDR games in SDR.
@zxbc1
9 ай бұрын
Between windows 11 AutoHDR, and Special K, HDR gaming on PC is anything but a hot mess, it's actually quite good now. The terrible triple A games are just a drop in a bucket in terms of number of games on PC, so whenever I hear people talk about ___ being terrible because "triple A games are bad at it" I just cringe. It shows a stark disconnect with reality.
@LeegallyBliindLOL
9 ай бұрын
It should prompt you once you enable HDR tho. I still don't get why we have to manually download an app and do it
@BrotherO4
9 ай бұрын
@@LeegallyBliindLOL cause for 2 reasons. reason 1. some game base the max nits from the OS level and others ignore it. aka those that provide you with a manural settings are the one that skip the OS. reason 2. many TV/monitor use "Tone mapping per scene. so Windows is reading the Default "max nits" from the Device which is base on a "Tone mapping" system. so its completely False. so when you turn the tone mapping off or use Hgig. We remove the TV/Monitor from adjusting the brightness. leaving only the OS/game to control everything. also note you should do this even on the consoles. let the OS/game handle the tone mapping and not have the TV/Monitor involve. side note AutoHDR uses the OS information. so for example on my LG c2 42in it would normally tell Windows that my max nit is in fact 4k. which is not even close to the real max nit of 800. so after setting Hgig and using the app i get no more clipping. for games that have a manural settings well the good news is that now you are adjusting settings to a static value as well.
@wesleywittekiend423
9 ай бұрын
I’d be interested to see a follow up on how windows 11’s auto HDR feature factors into this. As someone who has a high end HDR tv connected to my gaming PC, I’m wondering if windows 11 is worth the upgrade.
@K0MMyHuCT
9 ай бұрын
It actually works FAR better than built-in HDR in some games. I don't play too many "HDR-enabled" games that come out these days, and the ones that I have played I did before getting an HDR monitor, but it absolutely is the case in War Thunder right now (it wasn't until an update a couple of months ago, which just shows that HDR support is so fickle it gets broken where it previously worked).
@Lagger01
9 ай бұрын
It's literally the only reason to get windows 11. Been playing emulated switch games with auto HDR on my OLED and they looks so clean.
@raffdraws
9 ай бұрын
Auto HDR is actually neat
@richardhunter9779
9 ай бұрын
It's kind of worthless. For most games, they still look overexposed like normal SDR content does, but the bright spots are way brighter. Leading to far too much of the screen being far too bright. Banding is about the same. The only purpose of it is getting extra brightness that your display maybe does not support in SDR mode.
@Eiden01234
9 ай бұрын
windows 11 is never worth the upgrade
@kylekermgard
9 ай бұрын
I think the lack of mainstream HDR monitors is the biggest issue. I've been using an OLED TV as a monitor because the other options suck.
@jekaufo
9 ай бұрын
yes, because hdr 400 monitor are a scam, or with very little zone count
@crestofhonor2349
9 ай бұрын
Luckily the newer MiniLED and OLED monitors on the market actually have some really good HDR
@mimimimeow
9 ай бұрын
I've been using a Samsung NU8000 TV as an oversized ultrawide+tall monitor since 2019. It does 800 nits, 120Hz and cost 600 EUR at the time. No monitors come close to that value until 2022 or so.
@mohc6865
9 ай бұрын
Thanks Philip, love this kind of video where you go over a subject I know very little about. Explained excellently
@hedgeearthridge6807
9 ай бұрын
I just got the Pixel 8 which actually has an HDR screen, and I'm blown away by it. Whether its completely genuine or not is besides the point, in a picture of a landscape the clouds actually glow white, it looks so much more realistic and almost tricks you into thinking it's slightly 3D. Colors are so much more nuanced, they're clear while not being oversaturated or undersaturated, it's very genuine. So now I want a computer monitor with actual HDR, and I'm finding it's not really possible without shoveling out my bank account and risking ruining an OLED with burn-in, just to get a patchy broken experience like Philip is describing
@YezzyHD
9 ай бұрын
omg thank you for this, the support most monitors claming to have "hdr" is also horrible. There are so many displays with horrible hdr that can give you ghosting or flickering. True good hdr is a hard gem to find
@ZX3000GT1
9 ай бұрын
Or those that claims HDR support but only supports it up to a certain brightness limit Looking at you, HDR400 displays
@NeurodivergentSuperiority
9 ай бұрын
@@ZX3000GT1 Better than nothing i guess, even if it's barely anything
@michaelr8189
9 ай бұрын
@@ZX3000GT1 Seriously, I feel as if I got scammed by that label a few years ago, and I'm still bitter as hell about it.
@mimimimeow
9 ай бұрын
it's hard in monitor market, quite easy in TV market. Most upper-mid-range TVs since 2017 do in excess of 600 nits. Though you have to deal with their sizes and VA smearing (but let's be honest, IPS is horrible for HDR)
@noclick
9 ай бұрын
new personal record of Philip not mentioning Half-Life 2 is 1:12 minutes!
@IAhmadGT
9 ай бұрын
True
@owencmyk
9 ай бұрын
"Dynamic Range" refers to a very simple concept: The difference between the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. The issue with talking about it is the way it applies in several different ways. For examples: - A camera can be HDR in the sense that it can capture really dark and really bright colors with great detail. (though usually "HDR" isn't used in favour of just... measuring the dynamic range in "Stops" which is more or less a measure of how many times you can double the brightness before you reach the maximum brightness) - A game can be HDR if it renders things with colors brighter than white. (even if they get tonemapped back down to SDR later) - Content can be HDR if it stores colors brighter than white. - A monitor can be HDR in the sense that the darkest black and lightest white it displays are very far apart in brightness. (even if it doesn't actually display "HDR content") - And finally, what people usually mean when they say "HDR", is that the game rendered in native HDR, stored the image in HDR, and sent it to a monitor which can interpret colors brighter than white, and has enough dynamic range to display them at a satisfying brightness. It's that combination that's incredibly rare.
@ctcwired
9 ай бұрын
Professional video colorist & HDR mastering engineer here. Agreed with most points in the video. Besides the technical challenges, there's also a cultural ones. Just like when stereo came out and musical instruments would get panned wildly all over the place, or when surround sound came out and every movie had to have something rotating behind you for "wow" factor, HDR has similar issues. Often the brands / marketing / directors either hate HDR or love HDR, and thus push things in various directions. Attempting to "wow" customers for their money by overdoing it, or if they hate HDR they'll publish HDR content that's identical to the SDR content, sometimes even out of spite. Even if identical content gets published in SDR/HDR containers, it often won't look identical, because the controls for scaling brightness (called the diffuse white level) are either missing or poorly explained on most consumer displays. For instance the SDR mode on your TV might be set twice as bright as reference, but then the HDR mode might be bang on reference, thus looking weirdly darker. Even worse if your viewing environment isn't appropriate for reference brightness levels (trust me it's not!). That's assuming the HDR mode on the display even performs as well as the SDR mode, and that the playback device is properly switching modes, or properly compositing the mixed content within the UI. The only consumer product that gets this right out of the box at the moment (including mixed content UI compositing and brightness scaling) is modern iOS devices. (The standard is BT.2408 by the way). Chromium browsers & the latest Pixel devices are on their way to getting it right soon as well, from the looks of their developer forums at least. (Google is making a big push for BT.2408 and Gain Map HDR (Ultra HDR) photos support.) Just like how a good surround sound mix should immerse you but not distract you, an HDR grade is good when you can barely tell the difference. It is better if you directly compare, but not in a way where anyone sitting next to you would notice or care unless you pointed it out. When HDR is used in this way, it is more likely to give all users a better & more consistent experience, and there will be little to no difference between distribution standards either (HDR10, Dolby Vision, etc.). It is only when pushing to extremes that the standards differ, and displays struggle. Finally, HDR video will almost always need to be carefully curated by the hand of an artist / developer / filmmaker. The idea of cameras immediately outputting HDR-ready video is likely to never work all that great, because just like how surround sound needs context to be done well, HDR video needs context to be done well.
@Timothy003L
9 ай бұрын
Does iOS use scene-referred or display-referred mapping?
@ctcwired
9 ай бұрын
@@Timothy003LIn terms of the display? It's just following BT.2408, where diffuse white for SDR & HDR is anchored at 203nits and is user adjustable from there. I suppose you could call that a display-referred scaling. In terms of video capture, most video modes on consumer devices are display-referred. HLG inherited the same ambiguity that Rec. 709 did of being *technically* scene-referred, but no-one actually uses it that way. So on most cameras systems, HLG mode will include a bit of that manufacturer's "baked look". Even broadcast cameras tend to add sweeteners for achieving the "broadcast color" look (more saturation). The iPhone camera's HDR video mode (Which is HLG DV Profile 8.4) still uses all kinds of local-tonemapping, sharpening, etc. across the image, and uses an unusually high ambient viewing environment level and thus will look several stops over exposed unless corrected manually with editing tools, or the Dolby Vision downconversion is applied (some of Apple's tools can do this for you.) The new iPhone 15 Pro camera does have a "Log video" mode, which is truly scene-referred, and ACES compatible. Works great in my testing. It disables local tonemapping as well. The PDF document of the log encoding specification is available on Apple's developer site downloads page. (requires login)
@Timothy003L
9 ай бұрын
@@ctcwired Sorry, I meant in terms of displaying SDR content. I assume it uses the method specified in "5.1.1 Display referred mapping." Does it use per-component gamma 2.2 like macOS? Or does it use gamma 2.4 and then adjust the gamma of the luminance according to section 6.2 of BT.2390? The latter would preserve colors but consume more battery. And what about sRGB content? Windows uses the piecewise sRGB EOTF to map SDR to HDR. Although technically accurate, it looks washed out compared to a pure power gamma function.
@ctcwired
9 ай бұрын
@@Timothy003LAhh okay. So unlike AVFoundation/QuickTime on macOS which still to this day uses a strange & archaic OETF inverse for BT.709 decoding (effectively gamma 1.961, or the EOTF minus the dim surround compensation), iOS/iPadOS seem to do things much more appropriately imo. The EOTF of iPhone display varies based on ambient brightness levels, but in my testing it seems to decode most SDR content at pure 2.2. The sRGB spec has always been a bit ambiguous in that regard (several pages of engineers arguing about it on ACEScentral) but from my understanding piecewise encoding was meant for file encoding/decoding, but the physical display (CRT) was assumed to be roughly 2.2 power. At the time (1990s) this mismatch in the darkest areas between the encoding math vs physical display's characteristics was accepted as a reasonable tradeoff for the distortion issues caused by attempting to deal with an infinite-slope at low bit-depths on old GPUs. This is probably not necessary anymore, so in modern day there's an argument to be made of "what the standard says" vs "what everyone does". That's on top of color management & environment compensation methods being leaps and bounds better than they were at the time the spec was written. It's a bit of a mess, and hopefully the spec gets updated. In terms of how iOS composites SDR with HDR content, Apple uses their "EDR display" system, it effectively ramps the display brightness up while ramping the SDR UI content down at the same time. Sometimes you can see a subtle flickering when this happens. Android calls this same process "SDR dimming". I believe (and hope!) they still use pure power laws for that. The Chromium developers meanwhile actually wrote a guide on how they plan to composite HLG still-images in-browser which you might find interesting. docs.google.com/document/d/17T2ek1i2R7tXdfHCnM-i5n6__RoYe0JyMfKmTEjoGR8/edit#heading=h.q1k46in92kx1
@jarowskis
9 ай бұрын
theres a new cool feature on pixel 8 that you can take hdr photos which map the brightness. And when you display those photos the screen is brighter on the bright areas and darker in dark, looks amazing.
@SirBlicks
9 ай бұрын
Never thought I would be blinded by my phone until I watched HDR content in the dark 💀
@stevethepocket
9 ай бұрын
The resolution thing hits home pretty hard. Even now, monitors with a minimum of 192ppi are rare and never the ones they're advertising. Instead they just keep pushing bigger, wider, and/or curved monitors that have the same mediocre resolutions and only work at 150-175% scaling which looks terrible.
9 ай бұрын
To be fair, most phones are held at less than half the distance in comparison to the distance that people sit away from a monitor. But you are right. It has bothered me many times by now that monitors still have so little PPI. One should think that a PPI of 200 would be a minimum in 2023 for monitors.
@astreakaito5625
9 ай бұрын
Great video, would have been even better if you explained the HDR color gamuts as well. SDR is all rec709 colors, HDR also adds DCI-P3 and rec 2020 colors. It's not about just more brightness. It's also about pure blacks too, I'm guessing this is why you showed OLED tv and you represented the lack of pure blacks on most LCDs on your graph but yeah it's worth insisting.
@MaMuSlol
9 ай бұрын
It is also worth noting how bad the color gamut in rec709 and srgb (which is the same as rec709). They have only about 50% of the colors of NTSC! Yes, the analog television signal from about 70 years ago. We actually got a big downgrade in color going from analog video signal into HDTV. It's no wonder why most tv manufactures jack up the colors on SDR mode by default.
@Meinhardt.Erschwans
9 ай бұрын
That's not quite right. HDR is CAPABLE of using wider color gamut, but no game makes use of this. In the worst case, colors are displayed highly oversaturated when the Game is not identified as a color managed software. Most developers use HDR exclusively for brightness and contrast. And usually even that quite poorly...
@CastledCard
9 ай бұрын
I used to use HDR and fight it in my editing, but gave up and now I don't use a selling point of my monitor anymore lol. The only thing holding HDR back is the fact editing software isn't caught up yet even though they've had enough time to
@IAmNeomic
9 ай бұрын
The main issue is that, the industry really heavily pushed 4K when in reality, HDR should have been the selling point. Most people in a typical living-room TV Setup aren't going to see much difference between 1080p and 4K, outside of content that was poorly mastered in 1080p, like early Blu-rays. Even though HDR is pretty standard now, there's still a ton of TVs being made today that don't have it, or have a very poor implementation of it. Especially a lot of cheaper TVs where "HDR" mode just cranks the backlight up. That in itself is causing a lot of issues with people even understanding what HDR Is supposed to be, which is not only a greater range between black and white, but also the tens of millions of new shades of colors that previous formats had to use "tone mapping" software to squish into our old formats.
@beardalaxy
9 ай бұрын
My experience with HDR has been things just looking more washed/blown out. Maybe it technically looks more realistic? IDGAF though if that's the case, I just want my game to look nice. My 10bpc full dynamic range IPS monitor does that just fine.
@TechandDoc
8 ай бұрын
I think most people have shared this experience. Problem is less than 1% are videophiles, and those of us that are can't be bothered to adjust display settings for each individual piece of HDR content. In my case I end up fiddling with it so much it just takes me out of the content being displayed.
@MaaZeus
8 ай бұрын
Then you haven't experienced real HDR as it is exactly the opposite when correctly displayed on a screen that actually shows real HDR image. You have dark blacks, clear whites and bright highlights without losing details in either. The image is closer to how you see light in real life, instead of a postcard-like image that SDR is. The problem is that it is a hardware feature and requires good screen to show it but because VESA decided to chicken out on their HDR standards there are a lot of computer monitors on market that claim HDR support but actually do not show it properly, just compress it down to washed out SDR image. IPS is immidietly ruled out, too low contrast ratio even if local dimming. VA can do it but even then it needs a good direct-led local dimming. On plus side it can achieve the brightest highlights. However OLED does HDR the best for most content. The other problem is that game developers are half-assing HDR implementation. Movies do not have this problem and you do not have to set or calibrate a god damn thing from your TV (beyond using movie mode if you are a videophile like me), all the information (brightness of the scene etc) is baked into the video and your TV tone maps the image to its best capabilities.
@TechandDoc
8 ай бұрын
@@MaaZeus the hdr information coded into movies only works properly with direct blu ray discs. Streaming and encoded media in all forms uses tone mapping, which is just best guess. So no, until digital streaming HDR is standardized, it's dog shit.
@Ularg7070
9 ай бұрын
HDR is one of those things where one bad experience makes you just want to not bother. For me that was RE2 Remake, it felt like I could get the monitor to run in HDR but not the game, or the game to run in HDR but not the monitor. Between that and how funky auto HDR is in windows for playing older non-HDR content, I just leave it set to off now because it's not worth having to juggle these settings depending on which game im playing that day.
@hbaabes
9 ай бұрын
True! When I got my monitor that supported HDR, I was very excited to see how it turns out and only ended up being disappointed from the first experience. But one day i tried to play doom eternal and that game turned on HDR automatically and i was like DAMN THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! And i realized the HDR was on and was actually looking very good. No other experience other than doom eternal was ever good tho
@abeidiot
9 ай бұрын
with latest windows. most games don't have this problem. In fact RE2 remake is the only game that made me tear my eyes out. It does weird things with the windows setting for some reason
@lukelmaooooo
9 ай бұрын
yeah the hoops you have to jump through sometimes to get a game looking good in HDR is honestly a slap in the face when you consider that HDR10 has existed for almost a decade now
@mycelia_ow
9 ай бұрын
HDR 400 should not exist, it is not true HDR 10
@boboboy8189
8 ай бұрын
@@mycelia_owsadly, that where monitor manufacturer selling cheap monitor. Its looks horrendious when i open HDR, SDR looks beautiful. HDR need at least 600 nits but you still cant look the differences with SDR, only 1000 nits where its looks great
@eduardbalfego
9 ай бұрын
This video represents me very well. I also went through a lot of frustration. I have an HDR compatible setup and after months and months of trying to get it to work I gave up... for now i am sticking with SDR. Maybe in the next five years HDR will have more support and become a standard, but for now it seems that the next improvement is OLED screens
@sunyavadin
8 ай бұрын
If I could just get any two HDR-capable games to both look good AT THE SAME TIME on my HDR monitor I'd call it a win, but the ability to configure the HDR settings within any given game is basically nonexistent, and none of them are consistent in which monitor settings work best with them.
@sunyavadin
8 ай бұрын
.
@CarbonOtter
9 ай бұрын
Another thing to add to this: It's not just highlight and shadow details that HDR enables. There is... another. Color gradients in SDR/8-bit color necessitates color banding due to lack of subtle color representations. HDR/10/12-bit adds in many, MANY more color options to reduce that banding. Without HDR, the only way to make banding less apparent is dithering, which is how most games today handle it and they hide the dithering with awful generic film grain.
@cube2fox
9 ай бұрын
HDR dithering should mostly look pretty good even without film grain. Perhaps better than SDR without dithering. Anyway, HDR doesn't add "shadow detail". SDR black is exactly the same as HDR black. The difference is that HDR allows for brighter colors and a wider color gamut. E.g. super white and super pink.
@CarbonOtter
9 ай бұрын
That's not *quite* right. HDR color gamuts have more steps of color in addition to just more range of brightness. Shadows tend to be cleaner due to better representation. Think an SDR shadowed area only having 12 shades to work with but the HDR representation might have 50. There is indeed more detail in the shadows, however the ability for your screen to render it (OLED vs LCD for example) and the responsiveness of the human eye viewing it do mean the effect is much more subtle in perception. The flashy, easily noticed benefits are on the bright end of the gamut, but the dark end does stand to gain from HDR... though most game developers don't bother with shadow details because the majority of gamers use LCD variants, so good luck there. Cyberpunk 2077 with pathtracing enabled has extra shadow details (procedurally using the full HDR color gamut), but the baked shadows for instance are a bit crushed since the devs didn't make HDR a design priority. @@cube2fox
@mooistheroo
8 ай бұрын
I love this channel! The voice along with the music theme is just so great. Every single one of the videos I watch from you just feels right at home. Thank you!
@quinndepatten4442
9 ай бұрын
The examples of HDR were really cool. If I make a 3d game I'd love to make use of real HDR. My eyes are immediately drawn to the brighter areas. It could make for intuitive level design.
@ISAK.M
9 ай бұрын
I just bought my first HDR capable monitor today and now this pops up, coincidence? I think not
@Lucknutxbl
9 ай бұрын
SpecialK does a pretty nice job of converting SDR games over, not perfect but a lot better than AutoHDR anyway, and you can also dial in the brightness you want with it, sometimes I actually prefer the HDR from SK over the one included with some games too.
@CMDR_BananenKeks
9 ай бұрын
the last sentence hurt. I have an HDR Monitor and don't even bother anymore using that feature :(
@hoo2042
9 ай бұрын
Games I've played that had good HDR on PC: - Doom (2016) - Horizon: Zero Dawn - Uncharted - Shadow of Tomb Raider That may be it... I want to put Cyberpunk 2077 on this list, but there's something weird about the HDR in that game that still feels a bit off even after 2.0. I think it's something about the mid-gray tone mapping, although it's hard to describe even though this is literally my job. And two of those are ports of PlayStation games. On that note, consoles have had some great HDR content, mostly due to the consistent set of capabilities across users and broader support for HDR on TVs rather than computer monitors (I play on an HDR TV in my living room, even for mouse/keyboard PC games).
@FallingDMG
9 ай бұрын
I wonder if the Steam Deck OLED will lead to more developers implementing HDR properly. The early reviews all seem to praise HDR content on the new screen, *if* the developer has implemented it properly. Games with bad implementations, on the other hand, were often called out for that. Maybe having a popular, HDR capable all-in-one device, like the Deck, will a) make it easier for developers to implement and test HDR and b) give an actual incentive to do so.
@Symthos
9 ай бұрын
No seriously, recording in HDR is a NIGHTMARE! Countless clips thrown away because something cool did happen, but either i couldnt capture because shadowplay disabled itself, or shadowplay broke midway through because of HDR. Funnily enough, the only capture that seems to work is the default WindowsKey + G "game bar" but dont leave it running too long, else it suffers a ram leak and i have to force close it in windows 😮💨
@KARLOSPCgame
9 ай бұрын
What about OBS I was recording quicksync 10bit 1440p av1 bt.2020 just fine the other day
@clshortfuse_
9 ай бұрын
Excellent video. I work on the Luma mod for Starfield to address that lack of good HDR in video games you mentioned. Just some things I want to mention from watching your video. Tone mapping is when you take the raw scene (eg: Sun is 10K nits) and map it to your output (eg: 100 nits SDR, 1000 nits HDR). If you do it linearly, then you stretch. But that's a bad tone map. You basically want the first 0-15 nits to look identical but roll off the rest. Something at 5K nits shouldn't be 50nits on SDR. It would be close to 95 nits. It's nerdy math, but good tone mapping has a curve. If you want to make your HDR mastered video look good in SDR, you want to rebuild that curve again, but for SDR. The BT.2446a is a good way to tone map HDR down to SDR without making everything washed out. But yes, you as the video producer or gamer, or even video game designer, really shouldn't have to concern yourself with all this. We all need better tools. Great video!
@FightStreeting
9 ай бұрын
You have one of the most consistently interesting output of videos, thanks, across all your channels
@H.DISTRICT
9 ай бұрын
The Steam Deck OLED is going to be my first HDR display. Looking forward to seeing what it’s all about.
@jm27232
8 ай бұрын
You can't even play HDR videos on it.
@ri0t263
9 ай бұрын
I think most PC gamers are still on IPS displays with terrible contrast ratios. Even though they are "HDR400 certified", content looks dark and underwhelming with HDR enabled. Maybe when OLED or at least decent local dimming displays become more mainstream we'll see more HDR content and support.
@dedli_midi
9 ай бұрын
posted in november 2023. so bold. so relevant and topical
@Nightmare78hAlo
9 ай бұрын
At this point point i'm kinda rather glad i did not pursue an HDR monitor at the end, in like 2019 i was looking for a new monitor, wanted to go HDR cause i love deep blacks and brights for colours, it's why i often went with VA pannel monitors since they tend to have the best but all of the offerings for HDR monitors were either too expensive still or simply lacked other things i wanted from them. At this point, it almost feels like HDR will never properly get adopted and instead things like a full on different display pannel such OLED will be the main way to get more better and deeper colours.
@Chasm9
9 ай бұрын
I really like what Special K can do with games with broken HDR implementation!\ DOOM Eternal really has the best HDR I've ever seen. The colors just pop, there's so much detail that you can't see with SDR.
@romanr1592
9 ай бұрын
All they had to do is increase the bit depth of SDR, perfectly backwards compatible, instead they made a system where your TV decides for you what kind of picture you are going to see, of course that made a hot mess.
@AL2009man
9 ай бұрын
This is great timing given Steam Deck OLED has just came out, while simultaneously and casually solving the HDR problem that Windows has by making it in-line with Console HDR
@BoloH.
9 ай бұрын
Bought a 240Hz about two years ago, "Wow this has HDR!", tried it once or twice and haven't bothered with it since. You can make an alignment chart of various HDR implementations.
@tflp1950
9 ай бұрын
That absolutely is not a true-hdr capable monitor like an OLED
@cantti
9 ай бұрын
Thanks for putting this to words and out there. For the longest time, it has bothered me. A lot. I have enjoyed HDR in the living room since the days of PS4. Currently even most of the streaming services put out Dolby Vision like it's a norm. Even my iPhone hops in and out of HDR like a champ. And it's all great. But at the same time my PC, with state of the art hardware and OLED monitor - it's a hot mess of a user experience trying to use HDR. Manually toggling it on and off. Half of the "HDR" being some sort of pseudo-HDR shenanigan. And at the same time PC Master Race seems to act like it's all fine and dandy.
@uponeric36
9 ай бұрын
Yet another win for the CRT monitor; here I was thinking "man it sucks CRT will never get HDR" but as it turns out SDR is going to be the king for a long time; simply because it's something that designers can rely on that everyone has access to. Imo, there will probably be an HDR 2 or SDR+ before a standard implementation of normal HDR will ever be a thing. What if, instead of expanding the range to be potentially infinite (up to almost blinding brightness) We just... expanded the range to around the average of what new panels can actually hit? and say "hey this is the new standard, if you do this range, you're SDR+" And because it's a known range shared between all SDR+ monitors, color balancing should be a lot easier right? You could even have both; HDR could be like the unlocked mode for display enthusiasts who want to squeeze out extra light resolution who don't mind a lack of content support, with SDR+ being the easy "It's better than SDR" choice.
@andygrundman
9 ай бұрын
It's slowly getting better, 2 of the year's best games feature great HDR implementations: Baldur's Gate 3 and Alan Wake 2. AW2 in particular really stands out, especially when using ray tracing. It's also the only game I'm aware of that makes use of Windows 11's HDR calibration profile. BG3 makes great use of HDR for things like spell effects and shafts of light in underground caves. Another very good sign is the Steam Deck OLED: a proper HDR display that is more accessible to the average gamer. Let's hope it's easy to use....
@jayzn1931
9 ай бұрын
Well, the new steam deck now supports HDR. I don‘t know it myself but I do think it works well. This is great, because it is the first time I heard of HDR on linux as well. As Lightroom now also just got an HDR mode, I am confident that it is getting better. But I also have problems with it all the time, so I just leave it off mostly.
@pastyboi2789
9 ай бұрын
We need to go back to crts man no native rez good contrast. Shit was good (minus the weight and size)
@philiphansen1103
8 ай бұрын
Thank you. I really thought it was just me. I'm glad I'm not alone on this.
@superslash7254
9 ай бұрын
If you think being left behind on PC feels bad now imagine what it's like for those of us old enough to remember CRTs. In 2005 I was gaming on a 24" screen with zero input lag, zero pixel response times, an enormous color gamut, incredible brightness and contrast, and at a resolution of 2048x1536. It's taken us nearly 20 years just to get CLOSE to that in resolution alone, and we're still nowhere near the smoothness and speed of electrons in a vacuum refresh rates of CRTs.
@SyntaxDaemon
9 ай бұрын
HDR is super overrated. Better tonemapping for SDR is where it's at. Maybe eventually the support will be good enough to be worth it.
@dustycarrier4413
9 ай бұрын
There's HDR processing, and then there's HDR content, the two are drastically different concepts, even if the two need one another for HDR content.
@Talik13
9 ай бұрын
Finally! This is such a concise way to explain it. As a photographer and digital artist, I've had to deal with the pains of HDR and the joys of color spaces like sRGB, Pro Photo, AdobeRGB, and the fun new Display P3 and what screens can display them properly. (And I refuse to try and deal with printer inks and color calibrations.)
@Wozza365
9 ай бұрын
HDR feels like something that's going to struggle to become a standard like a new resolution does. There's so much to it and complexities. My Xbox and TV has issues with it sometimes, the TV won't kick into HDR mode every time but the Xbox will and causes everything to look grey - and that's a whole problem in itself, HDR content looks terrible on non-HDR screens, worse than an actual SDR version of the same video. On the other hand, a 4K video will not look worse on a 1080p screen compared to 1080p video, in fact it would generally still look better. Same could be said for surround sound, which has had some similar problems. 2.1 audio doesn't sound great on it and 5.1 doesn't sound great on stereo. I think that's a big reason for sound bars taking over in recent years!
@pandiem
9 ай бұрын
For now at least when using an OLED monitor you feel like you're getting the benefit of HDR while in SDR alone because of how much contrast there is, it sort of simulates the HDR spectrum when you can go to absolute zero blacks making your eyes themselves need to adjust sometimes. Turning HDR on to me is a much less noticeable difference than the monitor itself
@mycelia_ow
9 ай бұрын
Depends on the panel. The $1200+ OLED HDR monitors go well above 1000 nits and show even more color. Just a very high price to pay. The cheaper OLED monitors are nearly as good though.
@pandiem
9 ай бұрын
@@mycelia_ow There is no gaming OLED monitors currently that go above 260 nits for SDR or 1000 for HDR (HDR 10). | I think you're thinking of OLED TVs, they definitely get way brighter. Despite the low brightness of monitors though, its not noticably dim whatsoever after regular use.
@_Slach_
9 ай бұрын
@@pandiemI don't understand why brightness is limited in SDR. Is that an anti burn in measure or what? If so, would n't you just get burn in faster by consuming HDR since it's much brighter?
@ericthomas2388
9 ай бұрын
@@_Slach_ It's not limited. It's just beyond the standard, which you can blissfully ignore.
@BrotherO4
9 ай бұрын
I see you use CS2, that means it uses AutoHDR which means it’s uses the OS max nits.. So 1. Make sure to turn off any Tone mapping feature on your monitor and if you using a TV turn on HGiG . 2. Use the Windows HDR calibration tool to set your max Nit. Than open CS2 again and it will be correctly mapped.
@Blue_Soul_Slayer
9 ай бұрын
Thank you I'll have to try that. I was wondering why it didn't look any different. Like for me, when I bought my new monitor and switched from 1080p low HDR to 4k hdr1000, I was very eager to test everything. Some KZitem videos were great and movies too. Gaming is a meh. There's only a small amount of HDR games. But since I'm using windows 11 I like how it is used when compared to win 10. I found out amd adrenaline couldn't record in HDR which was a bummer so I'm currently using obs. But I eventually gave up on chasing the perfect HDR experience since everything isn't cohesive yet. (Especially games or mainstream KZitem.)
@Wozza365
9 ай бұрын
The fact you have to calibrate things for a decent experience makes it almost inevitable that this will never become a standard feature in every monitor until the process requires no setup for the average user
@jonesdaevilone
9 ай бұрын
Great video, another great example of HDR in games is Sea of Theives. For such a jenky gameplay loop HDR sunsets in that game almost rival sunsets in real life
@kendokaaa
9 ай бұрын
There's some conflation or lack of explanation in this video regarding HDR (brightness), colour (bit) depth and colour gamut. You get less banding on a 10bit display with 10bit content, without needing HDR. Additionally, those colours we don't usually see on displays are missing because most content is sRGB. Monitors with super wide colour gamuts that include very deep colours have existed for a while, to the point where it's been a problem with a lot of monitors lacking an sRGB clamp mode so the sRGB content gets stretched to the much wider colour gamut, resulting in oversaturation. HDR doesn't necessarily have anything to do with that. A game could be made for higher colour gamut monitors just like some applications are and these don't require HDR to be supported or enabled.
@NeoCyrus777
9 ай бұрын
Imagine not pirating Adobe products...
@MelkisgoedvoorJan
9 ай бұрын
I have been searching for it but couldn't find a pirated version of illustrator. Where do I have to look?
@burger406
9 ай бұрын
dont care, my montier is SDR TN 165hz -burger40
@ghost963cz
9 ай бұрын
holy basado
@KingLich451
9 ай бұрын
what
@croneryveit9070
9 ай бұрын
Its criminal that this video isn't in hdr format on yt.
@NewFound09
9 ай бұрын
Resident Evil 8 has pretty good HDR support if you ever feel like trying that, I spent a lot of time moving between dark and light areas like caves just mesmerised by how good it looked. I feel like more AAA story mode oriented games need to use it properly, It does bring a lot of extra quality out of games graphically.
@wolveslands6701
9 ай бұрын
You can absolutely fix every hdr issue on windows 11 PC, wether it be black crush, colour banding or brightness issues by using reshade software and downloading custom color profile's.
@Pocketkid2
9 ай бұрын
A more accurate video title would be HDR is a hot mess for computers. 4K Bluray and streaming services have had HDR for movies and TV shows since 2016 and since the process is so streamlined it rarely goes wrong and HDR improves the image over SDR overwhelmingly more often than not.
@renno0301
7 ай бұрын
HDR in the PC version of Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice was also great and the first time I understood the difference it could make.
@DMentMan
9 ай бұрын
Great video. For me, turning off HDR in Windows and restarting my recording software (ShadowPlay for me) works to capture normal footage without it being overblown or washed out, maybe that will save you some time not having to restart your PC every time, but knowing you, you already tried that haha
@shivanshagarwal12
9 ай бұрын
just saying hi to to philip because he said he reads every comment :)
@joker345172
9 ай бұрын
Tbh, I think there's a greater chance of OLED monitors becoming mainstream way before HDR does. I too have an HDR monitor that I can't use for most of the content I consume, and it feels like a terrible financial decision.
@ebridgewater
9 ай бұрын
Which monitor do you have?
@0Blueaura
9 ай бұрын
i always have HDR on, it works on youtube videos (some) and got no issues running games with hdr on even if the game doesnt have hdr support, but when they do its awesome
@FDM-xu4wt
8 ай бұрын
Really glad I watched this. I've been contemplating buying an HDR monitor so I can finally make use of that disabled "HDR" option in games, feeling like I'm missing out on the 'real' experience. Knowing it's just another fake experience takes some of that FOMO out of the decision.
@robinrai4973
9 ай бұрын
it's crazy how so many things developed before "getting colours and brightness right" did Like even 5 years ago getting a monitor that had just 100% coverage of sRGB couldn't be taken for granted
@yaelm631
9 ай бұрын
I'm doing HDR Bracketing capture of my rooms for photogrammetry and gaussian splatting scenes, and I agree. It IS a hot mess
@ogremair803
9 ай бұрын
Nothing beats HDR on an OLED screen, anything else is just a crime against humanity.
@Peterscraps
9 ай бұрын
The thing that sucks is that color management has to be, well managed. ICC profiles help a fuck tonne, but when you delve into the manual side of it you realize, what may be correctly displayed to you is completely different on another device, or editing software even. It's an unsolvable problem where industry giants have to play nice with each other to make shit work.
@Peterscraps
9 ай бұрын
INB4 this comment ages poorly
@realSethMeyers
9 ай бұрын
Love when I'm scrolling Instagram Reels at night with my screen brightness all the way down, when suddenly one shot in HDR comes along to sear my retinas.
@insu_na
9 ай бұрын
Watching this on an OLED monitor on Linux... in SDR because of course
@Louis-ok3ry
9 ай бұрын
at least there's gamescope
@Decodeish1
9 ай бұрын
soon :( well kinda, big progress happening.
@insu_na
9 ай бұрын
@@Louis-ok3ry eventually... luckily valve is being nice to us Linux folks
@TheFeelTrain
9 ай бұрын
Ironically once Plasma 6 is out in February Linux will have a better HDR experience than Windows does
@homeslice808
9 ай бұрын
Dude it's so frustrating!! It's like I use HDR to see more detail, but what I get instead is an overexposed image! It's like turning HDR on in my computer and monitor makes everything brighter and more vivid, but then when I also turn it on in a game, it just makes it brighter and I lose details that were there when HDR was off??? I managed to get a good looking image in Insomniac's Spider-Man games on steam but I had to turn the HDR settings way down in the games. That has been my only successful endeavor in HDR usage :(
@rdmx8
9 ай бұрын
Many monitors advertise 'HDR' but it's totally fake -- you have to use something like a newer OLED monitor to really see HDR content properly (where individual pixels can be lit at up to 1000 nits)
@KIager
9 ай бұрын
As someone who's very into HDR and image quality, you basically need SpecialK to get proper HDR in most games. Even the ones that advertise HDR. Highly recommend it.
@ThatTrueCJ201
9 ай бұрын
The weirdest thing about HDR imo, is that there seems to be absolutely NO consensus on how to store HDR stills, despite a relatively "mature" video pipeline. I can play HDR movies on my phone, but what about proper images? Unless I use the one or two Adobe apps that can properly work with it, I'm out of luck
@Maxoverpower
9 ай бұрын
It's true that for the longest time it's been unclear what HDR stills are gonna be like, but that might be changing now. They do support conventional video-like HDR through lossy image formats newer than jpeg (or lossless like PNG), but those are unlikely to catch on with the largest producers of images for the web - smartphones and standalone cameras; though it's entirely possible to capture screenshots from video in those HDR formats using ffmpeg and video players. It is crucial that images created by smartphones can be viewed on any device and read by any app, without requiring explicit support for new image decoders or a process of handling HDR by the apps, so instead smartphone cameras are starting to adopt gain map based HDR, where the base image is a universally compatible SDR jpeg, but it also has additional data (gain map) embedded, which can be used to recreate the HDR portions of the image on compatible displays. Since smartphones already have robust multiple-exposure mixing for photos, there is very good data to generate that gain map from. Adobe apps that you mentioned also support this format, and decoding support is decent in browsers on PC.
@TheBugkillah
9 ай бұрын
1:26 - 1:40 looked the most realistic to me because, isn’t this how our eyes work?
@omgwat
9 ай бұрын
I have an LG C2 42in OLED TV as my main monitor. It's mindblowing. Not joking, it's changed the way I game forever. I had to go back and replay games I haven't played in years just to see it in 4k HDR at 120hz. I don't think I'll ever go back to a regular monitor for gaming. Everything looks so bright and clear and the image quality at 4k is astounding. I'm convinced it's the future but we're just not there yet.
@GeorgeNoiseless
9 ай бұрын
Well lucky for you, Philip ol' mate lots of developers are going to be getting HDR capable screens now, Thanks to Valve. If anything is going to move the needle on PC, it's Deck OLED.
@Zinkolo
9 ай бұрын
God finally someone says it. I've watched the HDR channel and it's always so confusing
@commandurrazor
9 ай бұрын
For once perfect timing, after the steam deck oled announcement!
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