When was the last time you tried setting up your portable Antenna's for NVIS and How did it go ?
@garylanders1470
Жыл бұрын
Sorry if my question about the mag-loop came across as a know-it-all, that was certainly not my intention. It was an honest question from a guy studying for his HAM exams. So the answer is never. But now as I think on it my Army brothers and there newer vehicle mounted tandem loop is not angularly adjusted yet they manage to get it done. Again, thank you kindly.
@dandypoint
Жыл бұрын
Several years ago I was trying to talk to a new ham I had help get licensed and on the air. He had a 40 meter antenna and I had a 40 meter dipole about 50 or so feet high. We were about 20 to 30 miles apart. Signals on 40 were not very good. The next day I strung out another 40 meter dipole no more than 4 or 5 feet above the ground. That made a big difference. He could not get over the fact my very low dipole did so well. I took the opportunity to explain that the low dipole was radiating mostly straight up while the higher dipole tended to have a null straight up if it was close to a half wave high. Also almost all normal 80 meter horizontal antennas are radiating mostly straight up because a half wave is 130 feet and most of us can’t get past 60 feet or 1/4 wave high. Of course you must be below the critical frequency or nothing comes back down. There are some good web sights where you can get real-time critical frequency info. Check this out this station near me : www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/IONO/rt-iono/latest/WP937.png
@KenTenTen
Жыл бұрын
Several years back I wanted to check in to the EPA section daily traffic net on 75 meters. I had a little TenTec mobile in the car with a Hustler 75 meter loaded whip on the back of the Buick. No joy from my QTH near Harrisburg to the Philly area, about a hundred miles. I loosened the ball mount for the whip, rotated it to be parallel with the ground about 2 1/2 feet above the dirt (not a favorable operating position for a mobile antenna, hi hi, but I was stopped well off the road). The noise dropped to near zero and the net was clearly heard; I checked in with a "weak but readable" signal report. The difference was no comms versus no fade, clear comms on 75 phone at 100 miles. I became a believer after that. DE KB3JA
@LavaKimo
Жыл бұрын
We test NVIS once a week here in Hawaii. We have an ARES HF net weekly.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
@Gary Landers Thanks for the question and sharing
@BasicFilmmaker
Жыл бұрын
I don't know anything about this - but I can't stop watching. :)
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Much credit belongs good sir for your wisdom.
@temporarilyoffline
Жыл бұрын
I love running NVIS - for lazy POTA or for in state QSO parties.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Steve, your making me want to go setup an antenna right now.
@temporarilyoffline
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin Like I really needed to twist your arm...
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
😇
@daveball3081
Жыл бұрын
We use an end-fed on 40m and 80m NVIS each year when passing health-and-welfare traffic from the Gifford-Pinchot National Forest during the Bigfoot 200 Ultra Marathon. We are passing traffic using Winlink. We're often sending to gateway stations within 100 miles.
@connormckibben5986
Жыл бұрын
Is that with W7RAG?
@Chameleon_Antenna
Жыл бұрын
Operating a NVIS COMM at QRP power (under 20W SSB) is VERY good!!! In my book this is a success! Remember that depending of the maximum NVIS frequency used - the Ionosphere will absorb a % of the RF radiation!
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
These are really good points you make. We could have consulted the MUF and used higher power to have seen increased results. For 5 to 10 watts we were all using during the day, we really had a good outcome.
@jonmcadams5401
Жыл бұрын
I like your cooperative antenna testing! I use a non resonant end-fed stealth sloper 71' long, with 50' coax, 9:1 unun, no counterpoise, & common mode choke on a jumper 3' from transceiver. Antenna slopes down from a 15' balcony to a 6' wooden fence. SWR is 1:2 to 1 or less on 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 meters with no antenna tuner. Using internal ATU in my XPA125B amp, SWR is 1.5 to 1 or less on 160, 75/80, 60, 40, 30. Have made contacts on all HF bands. Get good signal reports on daily 80 & 40 SSB phone nets including stations that are 5-20 miles away. From California have also worked Europe, Mediterranean, Africa, South America, Australia & Asia both QRP & 100 watts SSB. It's great to have an inexpensive, limited space, all band HF antenna. I hope this is helpful.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Excellent description of your setup, thank you for sharing.
@pnowikow
Ай бұрын
That was so cool. Still blows my mind how hf works
@jeffallen6459
Жыл бұрын
In this solar cycle 40m goes way to long for nvis usually, in my experience. 80m with a low dipole or endfed works almost every time. Especially with digital modes.
@tangobayus
10 күн бұрын
My main antenna is 40m end fed half wave mostly on top of a wood fence about 6 feet tall, with part of it as inverted V up to 16 feet. I can easily do 400 miles and longest was 3,000 miles to North Carolina on 20m.
Жыл бұрын
One strength of the end-fed is that if you are heading to a location with suitable trees, you will have less to carry than with the other antennas; all you need is the antenna itself and likely a bit of paracord or the like to get the length right. That's great for SOTA.
@yowsa52
Жыл бұрын
I like DL2MAN's u01 antenna for NVIS. Only one 30' mast and work 40-60-80. It is like a linked dipole. You have to change the jumper to switch band but it is all a minimalist setup with good results I think.
@peterbehringer63
Жыл бұрын
Good test to demonstrate the possibilities of NVIS for local area comms.... NVIS communications on HF ham gear play a role in a new post-apocalyptic fiction adventure series, where i have a scriptwriter role...and i am glad the ham radio portable operation fun days in my youth are being put to good use now.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, abd yes, today is always a great day to start using those skills 😉
@peterbehringer63
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin thanks... tropical expat gringo regards from Caracas Venezuela Have a fantastic finish for 2022, if you can !
@davidh5645
Жыл бұрын
About 12 years ago I was living in Provo. The local club I was in did something very similar to help out the Utah County sheriff's department in testing HF for emergencies. I was stationed up left fork Hobble Creek canyon in a very narrow canyon. Others were through Utah county. It was very successful on 80, 60 and 40 meters.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting David, indeed these tests are good to make sure our portable stations are setup in a reliable way. Nice work on your exercise.
@Porco_Utah
Жыл бұрын
I heard from old timer, before 144MHz/ repeaters become popular , people used to use 3.8MHz to do communication 200, 300 miles. they said they used to talk from Cache County to Salt Lake Valley over mountain any day just fine. AG6JU
@o00scorpion00o
10 ай бұрын
On 80m the Loop is a big compromise, it's never going to be very effective on 80m or even 40m Best 20-10m. The EFHW 49:1 is half wave on 80m so offers a huge advantage over the loop. My version of this EFHW 49:1 has a ceramic capacitor in the middle which increases resonance in the phone portion of 80m, without it resonance would be around 3.5 Mhz, the capacitor is a neat trick because it electrically shortens the antenna without having to shorten it which messes up the other bands. I get good DX and NVIS with this antenna in an INV L kind of config, first half of the antenna is up around 60-70 feet, runs East/West and the other half slops North/South direction and I have the UNUN around 3 feet off the ground where I have it grounded. This antenna works amazingly well for me.
@klm724
16 күн бұрын
Great to see the local boys out. Nice work.
@N8ESP
5 күн бұрын
I'm just catching this video now, but it's fascinating to see this kind of experiment in action. Just on intuition, I figured the loop might struggle a bit on 80, but it seemed to hold its own at 40 (and probably would for higher frequencies, too). I've built plenty of unintentional dummy loads and accidentally NVIS antennas in my day, but I've never done one on purpose. All kidding aside, though, these are important skills to have in the back of the toolkit (and hope they're never needed in an actual emergency situation). Keep up the good work -- enjoying the channel!
@johnforte3466
Жыл бұрын
I'm building an antenna right now. Four element six meter qubical quad. I think what you did was great. Let's face it all we have left are antennas.
@Porco_Utah
Жыл бұрын
I have Inverted L Antenna, 24 FT high 30 ft wide in Orange County CA , height makes it more of NVIS antenna for 3.5MHz, 7.0 MHz band. I can communicate well within 1000 miles or so. all the way up to Washington State, Arizona. I often do much better for path along coast line from Orange County CA to coastal Washington State, over toward inland like Texas. AG6JU
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Hidenori, you have described a really nice setup. I bet it works great. thank you for sharing.
@edurrant
Жыл бұрын
I think many people don't realise that just putting up an nvis friendly antenna will not make nvis work. The ionosphere has to be in the correct state as well. Specifically the "critical frequency" aka FoF2 has to be higher than the frequency in use. In theory it can go up as high as 10MHz but normally it sits somewhere around 4 or 5 MHz. I suspect that was the case during these tests and the reason why you had success on 80m where you were using NVIS and 40m where you were relying upon ground wave. 73 Ed DD5LP
@neubert500
Жыл бұрын
Is it not amazing how may of use use Yeasu FT's for servial comms yet Yeasu have discontinued this excellent radios except for the FT-818?
@ESCOTCH
Жыл бұрын
horizontal loop would be the ticket for NVIS... or a semi-delta.
@prephampaul
Жыл бұрын
I never thought to try my loop, with my small yard and some interfering structures I have a 73' end fed inverted V at 30' apex and run 80,60,40 nets each month in NTX and OK with guys in my church group. I've tried running wires over fences and between houses at the 15-20' recommended height and it just didn't work for me DX engineering NVIS dual dipole, 80m 1/2 wave dipole at 6ft, 73 ft end fed flat top at 20feet, to no avail. I just ordered the CHA NVIS antenna that is on sale now and looking forward to trying that one but it needs more room than my yard provides. I need to take the jeep out and try all my NVIS antennas without obstructions and in recommended configurations. I really enjoy the challenge and fun of NVIS. Great video!
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Fun adventures ahead for you. Getting out and setting up is a great thing, indeed.
@derekvargason
Жыл бұрын
This is by far the best NVIS demonstration I’ve seen. I learned quite a lot here watching this. I only have my tech license now for only a couple months but vhf, uhf, and 10m doesn’t interest me too much because of our uneven terrain, mountain ranges and so forth. NVIS coms is what interests me and for distances of up to 500 miles on HF in my area. I’ll be taking my two tests for general and extra this fall when I get some time to study up a bit. I’ve built a few antenna for my truck and also for my base station for more local contacts but Alaska is so big that NVIS makes a whole lotta sense. Gonna shoot ya a subscribe
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support. I'm glad this video was helpful 73
@LarsLarsen77
Жыл бұрын
Since the magnetic loop is designed to do DX from 3-6 feet off the ground, the takeoff angle is obviously going to be wrong for NVIS at that same height.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
That is right. there were plenty of scenarios we did not get to try that day which could have confirmed a lot. It would be nice to try more configurations next time.
@Clark-N1NVK
Жыл бұрын
Try dropping the height of your EFHW to about 15'. I have a 80M EFHW about 13 feet off the ground along the top of some bushes in the back yard, ... works pretty good. I would also like to see the group test with the Military style NVIS 80M/40M double dipole. N1NVK
@grampsradio
7 ай бұрын
I agree, it looked like the end fed antenna was the clear winner.
@user-ro3mn5eb9d
Жыл бұрын
Great Video, On your next testing, please try the loop in a ''nvis config.'' it will have better results when the loop is placed in a horizontal axis so it will shoot up its signal and will also not be directional. but always, in general: low to the ground is mandatory for horizontal antennas as well as utilizing the MUF/time factor. 73s
@W8RIT1
Жыл бұрын
according to an old article from W4RNL (SK) Cebik....that there will be some directionality due to voltage peaks on the element.
@paulplack490
Жыл бұрын
I'm afraid you misunderstand that antenna. The small loops are directional in the plane of the loop, not broadside. There is a very sharp null in a roughly 15º cone on each "axle" of the "wheel." Putting it horizontal sharply nulls anything going straight up, and also requires elevation above ground to avoid excessive losses, just like a dipole.
@user-ro3mn5eb9d
Жыл бұрын
@@paulplack490 Thank you for enlightening. I witnessed one tune up on 40m and it had some problems, and in fine tuning it as well. Of course, there are many factors in place but after putting the wheel in horizontal position, the local contacts started hearing us with full saturation. it was the only ant. to rival my AS2259/GR as we had portable SSB setup. I'm assuming we had optimal sub ground structure as well. the height was about 2metes above ground and 6meters for the crossed dipole.
@user-ro3mn5eb9d
Жыл бұрын
@@W8RIT1 Thank you, I will read up about it ASAP.
@timbookedtwo2375
Жыл бұрын
I put together an inverted "V" antenna for 40 meters using some old wire I had lying around, a BNC to banana plug connector, a broken fiberglass mast, some RG58 coax and some cordage. The apex is about 20-25ft high, the RG58 with BNC connector runs down the pole. I hit the jackpot with the wire lengths. They needed no adjusting. At the base I made an air choke. I have practically full bandwidth on 40 meters with an SWR of less than 1.8:1 without using any "tuner" or matching device. The antenna functions very well as an NVIS antenna. I would not take it portable, however. As the sayiing goes, never touch a running system!
@l.a.2646
11 ай бұрын
NVIS is a fascinating practice to experiment with. I've had NVIS antennas work just as they are supposed to, but I've also worked DX
@michaelzehrfeld7766
Жыл бұрын
Kevin - an awesome antenna test video.....that´s the way i like to see it when a few good operators make such extensive tests! Your radiofriends are the perfect "crew" to make such experiments! Thanks for the video - love it - and all thumbs up! 73 Mike DO1MDE
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Michael, your feedback let's me know that these projects are useful and maybe even helpful, These videos can be fairly complicated to produce.. 73 Kevin
@alexdiamantopoulos6614
Жыл бұрын
I home made a end fed for 80 and it works well. I’m in Brooklyn nyc and I only have 100 by 28 space of property
@RobertLeeAtYT
Жыл бұрын
I don’t like magnetic loops. The big issue is that they’re mostly power limited. A loop that can actually run more than QRP typically need vacuum caps, so tends to be bulky and relatively delicate. The only advantage to magnetic loop is if there are very strong neighboring transmitters saturating your receiver. The very small bandwidth can prevent those signals from reaching the frontend in the first place. I’ve found the most practical, robust and easily portable antenna for NVIS is the EFHW. Carry a 20ft telescoping crappie fishing pole, or better a 30ft JackKite, and you won’t need trees. Set up for inverted V with the pole holding up the center.
@LetsCelebrateTV
Жыл бұрын
Great Job as usual. Seeing you smile tells everyone that have found your KZitem calling 🍸
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Peter, I believe I have seen you smiling recently as well 😉. It IS a good thing when we help others.
@Gary-wh7ce
Жыл бұрын
Nice demonstration of NVIS. I was a member of Ogden when I was living in Utah and upgraded to K7TH. 73, Gary
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Gary, 73 Kevin
@sptvids
4 ай бұрын
Really interesting. Im quite new to this and only have an alex loop running an IC705. I love the loop, I use it indoors and get out quite well on 10w. Hit Austrailia on FT8 from UK and can easily hit spain and italy on phone. Im looking to expand my antennas, so this has been quite informative 👍
@washingtonstatepicker3460
Жыл бұрын
Great info! I have talked all over my state on 80 meters with NVIS. I would like to try this experiment for closer contacts.
@glenbirbeck4098
Жыл бұрын
End fed long wire is the way to go if you have the space. I use one 400' long at the home QTH. The trick is to match the TX to the EFLW or end fed long wire. Not trying to work locals though
@bhamptonkc7
Жыл бұрын
Best antenna is a dipole tuned at NVIS height, a shallow inverted V
@ManuelGoicolea
Жыл бұрын
Great video Kevin, love everything, and also the b-roll 👍🏼
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Manu, I appreciate you man ! It is fun to create a project like this. 😎
@paulplack490
Жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin, I recently tested a 40m center-fed inverted-V, center insulator on a 23' painter's pole off the pickup's hitch receiver, and ropes on the the ends tied off to a split rail fence, at Camp Floyd Pony Express Park in Fairfield. It made a sensational NVIS setup. I tested during the Beehive Utah Net, and heard all 150 stations well. I want to do more testing at varying heights to find the sweet spot between high angle and low ground losses.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Paul, that sounds like an excellent setup and test. What a fun project to put together. Testing like you are doing, is a really fun part of this hobby for me also. I hope to work you sometime. 73
@douglasvamateurradioandmore
Жыл бұрын
I have gotten from north of the phoenix metro area to the hill country nw of austin and from the hiil country to cottonwood and phoenix. When you showdd the maps, i realized that you were in the salt lake area. I am in the are on 7/5 and 7/6/23.
@radiointhewild
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video! The Chameleon EmComm2 QRP edition was one of the main antennas that went into the valley of Turk Mountain in Shenandoah National Park last summer on a club hiking trip (bought it just in time for testing on the trip). The sloper configuration was fantastic for both getting us voice comms on 60 meters back to my local club during a weekend "Shack Day". We were also able to make a few DX contacts to a Curacao contest station and to Spain. Worked very well for Winlink also. 20 watts was the highest power used on a Xiegu X108G. We also brought speaker wire antennas, the Packtenna 9:1 random wire and the KM4ACK EFHW. All of them fared very well and survived the trip.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
It sounds like you also enjoy getting out and making contacts, enjoying and using the fun gear you have. Thanks for sharing
@KU9L
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this test!!! So far all three of my antennas are EFHW 40-17, but I remember the 80M later morning or early afternoon contacts I had in 1979 as a Novice with a 90' long-wire antenna and an MFJ-901 antenna tuner. Those were the days of slow speed code for me and a lot of patient older Elmers long gone SKs, lol. -Dave - KU9L
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
This was a really fun test, your setup is exactly the kind of thing fun times are made of. Your right too many SK's these days. Thanks Dave. 73
@michael_KD8GIJ
Жыл бұрын
Very nice video. Good to see someone actually operating (and not 'just' POTA -- Don't get me wrong, I like POTA and work a fair amount of it) with the video focused on a specific topic. Good job.
@phildurall7466
Жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin .... outstanding comparison Sir! I was just at the HRCC campout in Ramona, CA and setup a KK6USY style Delta loop and compared it to a 40 meter vertical EFHW. I was on 40 meters mid day and the Delta loop was at least 2-3 S units stronger than the EFHW receiving stations about 400 miles away. On 20 meters, the EFHW was about 2-3 S units over the Delta loop, but, I was receiving stations over 2,000 miles away at that time. As Hollywood states below, using the right tool for the job makes all the difference. Keep up the great videos Sir! 73 - KF6IF
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Your test sounds like tons of fun. And Ramona, my old stomping grounds. 💪👍
@phildurall7466
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin I saw that your roots are still in Ramona! I am bummed I missed you out at Quartzfest.
@gliderrider
Жыл бұрын
Very nice experiment. Looks like the endfed is a big winner on 80m. That makes me happy as I have one of those. But since I’m a renter, I can only deploy that if I go to a park or something. I use a 40 endfed at home. Very stealthy. 1st qso on that was on 40 m from South Dakota to Spain. Yeah I’m sold. Both. Were MFJ antennas. MFJ-1984 & MFJ-1982. I also have a qrp endfed kit by k6ark that is superior to the mfj’s.
@DougNetherton
Жыл бұрын
Since your end fed was 25' in the air, it would have been interesting to put a reflective element under it to enhance the vertical part of your signal. VE3MCF & AK4HB
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
indeed, If we had more time I would have also lowered the antenna and tested different heights. so many tests to run and so little time that day. More to come :)
@jeffreyashman9751
Жыл бұрын
WOW, this video may have help me with at least a question about transmitting in a mountainous area. I live in eastern Kentucky and will be setting a station in my house with ridge tops all around. It will be nice to experiment with what I have available. Thank you for this video. Will be on the air in a week or two. 73, KN4OTZ.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful Jeffrey, get out there and set that up ! 73
@jeffreyashman9751
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin GOOD NEWS, yesterday I set up an Chameleon EMCOMM II. One end at about 15 ft., the other about 10 ft. Made my first contact on HAM radio to WV1W in Connecticut at 3:20 pm. I live in Booneville, Ky. He told me my signal was 5x5. The rig I was using is the Yaesu FT-991. I wasn't sure I would be able to make contacts as there are ridge tops all around my house. I'm glad I came across your video. SUCCESS! Thank you so much for the information provided in this video. Hope you has a Happy Thanksgiving day. 73, KN4OTZ.
@HardcoreFourSix
Жыл бұрын
My HF antenna at my QTH is a Alpha-Delta DXCC multiband dipole set up as an inverted-V. Apex is about 25-30 feet up, ends are 8 feet. It seems that the pattern is fairly omnidirectional
@backcountryamateurradio
Жыл бұрын
Nice work, Kevin! This video is excellent. It was a lot of fun to be part of this exercise. I think that it would be fun to have more local operators practicing NVIS. This is one of my favorite uses of HF radio.- KI7WJP, Eric
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Eric for helping make this project possible and doing all the work you did. Your setup was a real testament to having a solid working NVIS setup. It is so much fun working with you on these videos.
@morejavi
9 ай бұрын
Awesome real world testing.
@nicthegr102
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to post these results.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
My pleasure!
@dustinmeier9753
Жыл бұрын
I like this. I’ve been working to figure out how to hit the house from where I work 41 miles away as the crow flies. Looking at topographical maps, you’d think a 50’ tower at the house would clear the land features, but once I calculated in the curvature of the earth, I now need a 1,200 foot tower at the house for LOS on 2m. So I’m switching over to the HF and NVIS as a possible solution now that I have my General. I’m curious if we can do NVIS on 6m since my wife is only a Tech. 🤔
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
If you are talking about 2 meters, I have a 40 foot pole with a dual band Vertical at the top and I can easily contact operators 60 miles away. There is usually no line of sight, but the signals often bounce off the mountains in our area. Get a good antenna for your wife and a good antenna for you. Park at the highest points that you can and you will be good. Use a mobile radio and not an HT and your results should be acceptable. Hope this helps.
@johnk8091
Жыл бұрын
The magnetic loop is hopelessly too inefficient on 3.7 MHz to even bother with. I have many mag loops, but I only use them on 14 - 30 Mhz......preferably on 15/12/and 10 meters. A simple piece of wire thrown into a tree would whip the mag loop on 80 and 40. Thanks Kevin, fun experimenting
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks John, it is good to hear some mag loop experience like you shared. This is very helpful, not many hams have tried or experienced the loop. 73
@georgedandrade-hp1gds296
Жыл бұрын
Did you check how was the FoF2 measures that day on the test to determine the optimal frequency for NVIS.? It seems was better for 80M that seems that the FoF2 at that time was maybe 5mhz as maximum frequency.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
It is on the list to note the MUF and a number of other details that we did not get this time. We were virtuous on this trip. Thanks for the good question
@georgedandrade-hp1gds296
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin It was an excelent video testing the NVIS. Very complete on testing the antennas. The results I have had is the end fed is the go because is tx stronger, but for Rx a lower dipole is better. I would recommend the same test replacing the worst antenna in the test with a Dx engineering design antenna that is a cross dipole. It is short but it works very good for smaller spaces. This dipole have four branches instead two. I had many good results some years ago doing different NVIS test. 73 HP1GDS
@Don-mb9fo
Жыл бұрын
Might want to consider 60m too.
@briantalley8415
Жыл бұрын
Great video, and yes, I will be trying this out in the very near future. I have a Chameleon Emcomm III but it's only up about 25 feet or so. When I tried 160m when I first got it, I was only able to contact someone in my town. That got me thinking how useful NVIS can be. Your video is helpful. If nothing else, I will want to nail down which antenna to use and which direction(s) work to reach my friends at their QTH.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Brian, I am glad that this was helpful to you .
@Steve-GM0HUU
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this. Good to see some field tests. Useful to know how to do this.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@submarineradioman5535
Жыл бұрын
Howie WA3MCK - we’ll done sir!
@thebnbaldwin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. Working up a plan with a friend to try NVIS here in Arizona.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Perfect, glad you are going to try it.
@ExperienceKevsworld
Жыл бұрын
This is such an awesome video! I'm a really new ham and this is one thing I am really interested in. I would like to do stuff like this at 100-200 miles. Thanks for your work on the video.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Kevin, I am glad you enjoyed this. Welcome to the hobby. You will have so many opportunities to do things like this. Give POTA a try, POTA is amazing way try out different configurations and learn radio operation.
@RobertLeeAtYT
Жыл бұрын
Oh, I think you’ll like NVIS. Reliable comms without consideration for terrain features out to ~300 miles. Use 80m during the day, and 40m near dawn and dusk. Buy a 30 ft JackKite telescoping fiberglass pole. Set up 40m of wire for an EFHW. Raise the pole in the wire center for an inverted V configuration. You’ll be able to use 80m, 40m, 20m, 15m and maybe 10m without anything additional, NVIS and DX.
@vk3uaj
Жыл бұрын
Nvis try horizontal loop should not be rotating vertical loop in direction of contact should be aimed up
@jamesmihalcik1310
Жыл бұрын
All the multiple perspective video was fantastic. Thanks for this! I'm trying to hone a 40 meter and 80 meter portable 5w setup with endfed NVIS.
@jasonhowe1697
Жыл бұрын
I suspect for where you were within the issues of static within 1-8MHz, I would try something within 21-30MHz to see if that improves your transmission .. you have heard pushing shit up hill ?? I think you are okay at reception however on transmission you are hitting the peaks you are likely looking at 40-80 foot antenna with the co-ax placed in a metal tube so the only in transmission is the antenna and that's it..
@pasjeihobby
Жыл бұрын
Awesome video. Editing is top notch. It was a pleasure to watch this. 73
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! that means a lot. It was a ton of work but so worth it.
@MT-cc2fz
Жыл бұрын
I like your channel. Lots of good info. So, for NVIS, it is very frequency specific. You are trying to bounce your signal off the F layer of the atmosphere. It makes more sense to me that it would work better in the 60M to 80M band. Also, for antennas, a dipole about 10ft off the ground would probably work the best. I would not expect the Loop to be any good at NVIS. Although it would be interesting to raise the loop up 10ft off the ground and see how it performs. 73.
@Locksnut
Жыл бұрын
Great job on testing and editing this all together. Thanks and 73, de N4WLC Bill
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it, Thanks Bill. It was certainly a big editing project and so worth it. We never really understand what the person on the other ends hears.
@KingJesusSavesSinners
Жыл бұрын
Great video Kevin. I am guessing the station with the poorest comms in this test was the one closest to you? It's been my experience that for reliable NVIS comms the distance between stations usually needs to be about 30 miles or more. The angle is too steep "straight up" and will just be obsorbed, and won't reflect much if at all. The solution for local comms is having a network of overlaping NVIS stations. You can use voice to relay but the most efficient way would be digital. KJ4LG
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Mike, I appreciate that. Kevin
@AJMjazz
Жыл бұрын
This is a good test reference. Thank you for this 73.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@kellingc
Жыл бұрын
Good testing. I love the set up and how you ran the tests. Thank you for posting this.
@alvarogaitan2529
Жыл бұрын
terrific job my friend thanks for experimenting with different antennas Great job 10/10 perfect 73
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
@aaronlindemann2669
Жыл бұрын
This video earned my subscription. Nice work! I really likes the quick side by side comparison. Thanks for taking the time to produce this video.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Your welcome, it was indeed a project, and I am happy that so many are enjoying it
@W7EDM
Жыл бұрын
I'd be interested in the results if you flipped the loop horizontal.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Ed, I wondered the same thing. I contacted Chameleon before the test, asking the same question and they told me it would not make a noticeable difference.
@TheSmokinApe
Жыл бұрын
Awesome job with this video!
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Ape! It was a project for sure, I learned how to make it even better next time
@DeepSixCycles
Жыл бұрын
Great experiments! I saw a comment that said most hams 75m dipoles are nvis because we can not get them up a half wave. I have often said this myself. Lots of nets on 75m have nvis stations checking in by default lol. 60m is also interesting with NVIS. Have yet to test 40m nvis. I may be wrong but I believe your mag loop would be vertical polarized? Would a mag loop be able to work nvis or only groundwave/skywave? And for hams new to nvis frequcies higher than around 40m are usually not reflected back down so well. You will usually see nvis used with bands from 40m-160m. For example Nvis with vhf (2m) is not going to work because it will pass through the ionosphere. Great video! Thanks for sharing!!!
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Yes you mentioned many things that are just true. It is nice to hear that someone else is trying to have a purposeful NVIS antenna. Thanks for sharing what you have discovered. I really think it helps all of us to share our wins and the fun.
@EdwardGriffin
Жыл бұрын
I am curious about your experience with solar charge controllers and maybe inverters while operating from a low noise environment. Which have been low noise and which have not? The tests of antennas and NVIS between parties was very interesting and I enjoyed this video. 73 W4POT
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Ed, over this summer with all my activating outside the RV with my little panels, I really never had any noise issues. However, operating from in my RV with all the electronics, WOW what a nightmare it can be. So i really only operate in the RV at night. it so much more fun to work the radio outside at camp anyway, at least when it is warm. 73
@EdwardGriffin
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin is that due to inverter use? Trying to compile a list of noisy vs. clean items since the data is missing from most general consumer reviews. 73
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
@@EdwardGriffin , there are so many things making electrical noise. It never ends trying to silence them all, so I just find ways to use the radio when it is more quiet
@fransahm1956
Жыл бұрын
I get a kick out of folks carrying batteries and solar panels around when they have a 50 amp 12 volt generator behind them in the vehicle.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Often times a vehicle, which includes mine, which produces a lot of alternator noise that really interferes with radio operation. For me a generator is too much work to operate with.
@user-hh4ly2xy6s
Жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks so much!
@paulcarcamo6992
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing those excellent videos
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Your welcome Paul, glad you like them!
@ralphnunn3
Жыл бұрын
Man, I would LOVE to get in on this action! Shoot me a note next time you guys do a test like this. My 80 Meter antenna at the home QTH is pretty much NVIS (only up about 18' off the ground). And yes, I'll pick up the mic to help with the test... ;-) DE K7RLN
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Hey Ralph, I would enjoy having you in on one of these adventures. I am already thinking of some followup videos. I can certainly envision a winter setup happening . Kevin
@Chameleon_Antenna
Жыл бұрын
Wire antennas will ALWAYS be preferable for NVIS than anything else BUT they CAN'T always be deployed due to environment constraints, time, manpower or or weather issues!
@stargazer7644
Жыл бұрын
17 to 25 miles during the day on 80m? That was groundwave, not NVIS.
@youtubeaccount7544
Жыл бұрын
Ground waves
@sincerelyyours7538
Жыл бұрын
An excellent real-world test, thanks! I appreciate the mag-loop tests especially as I plan to build one soon. As I watched the video I kept wondering if it would work NVIS better if it were positioned horizontally to the ground, or would that require it to be a certain fraction of lambda over the ground to avoid ground absorption effects? Also, as one or two people have noted in the comments, the FCC does require you to be a certain distance away from a mag-loop for RF safety reasons, but IIRC that distance is 3 meters when transmitting 100 watts. QRP levels are much lower so you could position it within arm's length or even use it inodors with no problem.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Your welcome, glad that you enjoyed it. From talking to Chameleon antenna, they said being horizontal would have a minimal effect. I should have noted in the video that I was running 10 watts. The loop that I was using can only handle 25 watts maximum. Reading the FCC radiation exposure guide is always a good thing to do, exposure levels can very from operation to operation.
@KC9RXP
Жыл бұрын
Never tried NVIS, always wanted to though.
@pbk380
Жыл бұрын
Do you have any concerns about RF Radiation with the loop antenna so close to your operating station?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for asking. Not at the 10 watts I was operating at that day. Since then the remote tuner has come out which mean the antenna can be 20 feet or more away from the radio. And that is a good addition
@garylanders1470
Жыл бұрын
Tank you, this was a very interesting example of NVIS comms. I have a couple of questions if I may? 1. Your brother HAM who was using the home brew antenna with a DIY adjustable ferrite choke, was his wire antenna in a end-fed configuration or OCFD? I noticed his feed point was at the lowest point of the droop. Also which of the call signs were his, N7GPG, KB7JSW or KI7WJP? Last but not least. On the use of a small mag-loop for NVIS, where as the maximum signal strength is in the plane of the loop (which includes the top of the loop) I'm wondering if it wouldn't have worked better if you had the mag-loop tilted 10 or 20° towards your intended recipients? Thanks again for taking the time to make these videos. Gary
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Gary, KB7JSW had the adjustable choke endfed wire antenna, at a few points in the video, I was able to rotate the loop and improve the signal both for 80 and 40 meter contacts. you would have look back through the video to find those moments however. I appreciate you asking. 73 Kevin
@woodskid4ever
Жыл бұрын
Would horizontal full-wave loop, square or delta, at about six feet agl work as a cloud warmer on most any HF band? It's seems the higher the frequency the farther the contacts. Please advise.
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Yes, lower to the ground for 80 and 40 meters will be ideal for NVIS. Other bands will not be very good for NVIS
@Chameleon_Antenna
Жыл бұрын
The guy with the 80M antenna at the park made a major installation error which will GREATLY influence the radiation pattern and the performance of the antenna thus the overall NVIS COMM experience. You CAN'T wrap a radiating wire on a post like he did! The antenna transformer which is on the table MUST be attached to the post otherwise - you'll lose a lot of power and create RX and TX issues! It will be even worst if the post contain metal inside or around!
@philipwells2793
Жыл бұрын
Thanks that was interesting
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@davidnelson6889
Жыл бұрын
Loved the video. It was a great demonstration of different radios and antennas. What time of day where you operating?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks David. We did this test about 2pm in the afternoon.
@davidnelson6889
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin 2pm in the afternoon… that is amazing! I always considered 80 meters as the night-time band and never used it during the day. The signals you were experiencing in the middle of the day were so clear and impressive for such low power. I was very impressed with the video and just how well NVIS works. It really is something every ham needs to know how to do, especially to be prepared for an emergency. Thanks again for your video.
@beowolfso.6096
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. Were the antennas setup any different for NVIS ?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Next time we do this test, we will try ant different heights. This time we just setup one way and then did our best to make contact with each other
@davidpeterson1521
Жыл бұрын
Great demo and test, what about after sunset?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Dave, I had only a short QSO with N7GPG at night from my Trailer and used the same antenna. He was using 1w and had a HUGE signal. , just never made it into this video. This was so fu, that next time I will make sure we do some night time tests for the video, thanks for the suggestion. 73
@chesty1369
Жыл бұрын
heard some RFi noise at about 14:53....wall wart?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Hard to say. I did have some campers near our site that ran a gas generator. Good ears !
@chesty1369
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin I have nightmares of that sound. Ha. Mostly in my case powersupplies. Worst one was a Ubiquiti etnernet switch.
@danford7532
Жыл бұрын
Your endfed antenna will work better is it was 5 feet off the ground!
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
I look forward to having more time to get more examples done next time. You are right, that would have been fun to show.
@KC9RXP
Жыл бұрын
Blue tape on the 857, to protect from scratches?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Amen brother, to me the blue tape is both fashionable and functional ;) The painters tape does not leave residue when I periodically change out the tape to keep it looking fresh.
@KC9RXP
Жыл бұрын
@@hamradiowithkevin Hear that. At first I thought it was a custom blue case. I've been known to leave the plastic on a new lcd for years. Lol
@baconwhiskey821
Жыл бұрын
Great video. What was your end-fed antenna orientation in relation to the other stations?
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, we had our wire antennas strung out North, South If we had more time that day, it certainly would have been good to move the antenna orientations around.
@docpearson
Жыл бұрын
Never heard how low swr was on the loop on 80m
@hamradiowithkevin
Жыл бұрын
The loop is almost always tunable to near 1:1. That is just how they work. In the off chance the loop is setup near a building that can cause interaction, generally, you get to tune the loop to a really good spot. Checkout one of my loop antenna video's and it might make more sense as to what I am describing. 73
Жыл бұрын
You said the end-fed antenna was up about 25 feet at the ends, and a bit less in the middle. That's probably too HIGH to be a good NVIS antenna on 40 meters; your takeoff angle was too low. It probably would have worked better at 10 feet than at 25.
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