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FULL REACTION ON PATREON: www.patreon.com/dukeofswindon Twitter/Instagram: dukeofswindon
@oneish7454
Жыл бұрын
I really liked the approach taken with Charlie and Ben. He didn't have to accept his apology, but still wished him well. It's a fairly realistic approach in my opinion
@mlee6050
Жыл бұрын
I felt bad as was like who is Ben? Then it was on screen and like yes I agree, just wish Charlie was like leave me alone instead of never want to see you as feel better if they accidentally go to same place in future
@makncheese9628
Жыл бұрын
The whole storyline with Ben's ending from what I understood is that it's a way that he can go in that place and be himself. He can be a better person but he chose not to which signals that he doesn't want to become a better person. And it's even deeper with Darcy's story. It shows that you can have a bad homelife and it doesn't make you a bad person. It shows that just because Ben's home life isn't the best it's his choice to be horrible and a horrible horrible person. He chose to be bad. And Darcy didn't. I'm so glad they didn't give Ben an apology arc
@CyanHope
Жыл бұрын
A little fun fact: Darcy’s scene with her mother is completely improvised. They basically gave Kizzy and the actress of the mother full control of how it would go and Kizzy said they were really stressed about it but I think they still managed to make the scene perfect and painful to watch. Also how it was edited with the music slowly taking over the conversation
@productjoe4069
Жыл бұрын
So here we have a subtle yet very telling comment from Jane. When they were leaving Nick’s house, Sarah apologises for the ‘drama’. Jane responds by saying that they’re used to drama in their house. It’s a blink and you miss it moment, and to many it may sound very innocuous. However, think about how withdrawn Tori and Charlie are and how quiet they are. Yet Jane still thinks of them as dramatic. How quiet would they need to be to satisfy her? Whether she intends it or not, she’s sending the message that she views her children as a chore and that their challenges are selfish. Charlie’s issues didn’t start with Ben or with him being outed.
@withxoutxlife
Жыл бұрын
I don't foresee his mother taking things well when she finds out about Charlie's eating disorder. Considering the track record, it wouldn't surprise me for her to think that he's being dramatic, instead of showing a bit of empathy for her son's mental health.
@AudoPlay
Жыл бұрын
I mean... at the same time "oh there's lots of drama at our house" is a comment meant to make Sarah feel less embarrassed about how her family drama was just on display to everyone. Like it's more her just saying "hey we also have teenagers, all families have fights, its okay no need to be embarrassed".
@productjoe4069
Жыл бұрын
@@AudoPlay depends on how different the two Janes are I guess. But I think given the other evidence just within the TV series, this Jane does not centre her children particularly, and even if her remark was intended to comfort Sarah it still betrays a certain viewpoint. Not that I think that she doesn’t love Charlie; just that she doesn’t express it healthily and maybe didn’t expect parenting to require so much effort. Something I’ve noticed is that - in general - people who have trauma from emotionally distant, controlling or hypercritical parents tend to recognise in TV Jane some traits they’ve experienced and interpret her behaviour that way. Conversely, people who have had more healthy (even if strict) upbringings, are more likely to give her the benefit of the doubt and interpret her actions as ‘tough love’. The comics and books leave a little less open to interpretation than the TV series.
@ericramey116
Жыл бұрын
The safe space is mostly the friends but the picture is also the art room at Truham in the corner where Charlie typically sits to hide.
@starwarsmichael66
Жыл бұрын
It’s easy to see Nick’s mom’s strength and character passed down to him in this ep. Way to be strong and forthright Nick, as always!
@brondo93
Жыл бұрын
Something that I find very powerful about Ben’s ‘Heartstopper moment’ (glad that Bash wanted one of those to happen) is that the visuals and sounds are that of the beach. Where in s1 ep8 Nick and Charlie express their own queer joy together at the beach, Ben purposefully chooses to walk away from that opportunity - in front of the Here and Queer exhibition, no less. It’s an interesting way to send Ben off because it does leave it a little bit open for the audiences interpretation (however I will say that Ben is still awful in one of Alice’s books that’s set after this point in time). Charlie naturally has every right to not want Ben in his life anymore but it was nice that he does wish for him to work on himself; shows that Charlie is the bigger person even after everything Ben put him through. We can hate Ben’s actions but at the same time have pity for him and feel sad for his existence; he’s quite a nuanced character in that sense. Not to mention that just outright hating on Ben can impact all the real life people who are a Ben themselves - those people still watch the show, even if they don’t express it. Seeing others online, especially those who are in the queer community, immediately rejecting Ben without any consideration will reflect upon those Ben-types who watch and feel that they won’t be accepted either, which could have more dire consequences. On a lighter note, I don’t think it’s super audible but the subtitles pick up Tori telling Nick “your brother is a prick” as they’re leaving his house 😂 She’s such an icon
@salemoh9759
Жыл бұрын
Tao's & Nick's Mom are amazing ❤ and Darcy's Mom is disgusting and big respect to Charlie 🥰
@camhusmj38
Жыл бұрын
There's nothing Nick and Charlie can't face....except for bunnies.
@productjoe4069
Жыл бұрын
Spiders
@matthewlowe6305
Жыл бұрын
When fandoms collide
@Maryhavo1
Жыл бұрын
"time to get my 20 minute reaction after the episode" with 38 minutes to go in the video hahaha love it (I always watch your reaction and then have the rest of your video as a podcast in the background while I do dishes or something). Keep up the good work! but only one ep left ;_;
@allenpayne927
Жыл бұрын
Your reaction to this show is everything 👏🏽 I love it so much
@lordwalker71
Жыл бұрын
Ben backing away from the rainbow makes me worry he will end up another closet case who marries a woman and cheats on her with men like so many men do now.
@withxoutxlife
Жыл бұрын
A realistic portrayal, though I do hope that Ben gets help for himself so that he stops hurting others as well as himself. My desire for all the characters to have a happy ending is a pipe dream though.
@jaygatz4335
Жыл бұрын
Or worse, does harm to those who rejected him.
@leftistpoetic
Жыл бұрын
Oooh hadn't even considered that view of us barely seeing the fight between Darcy and her mom and how that shows the way she barely shows it to the outside world as well, like even hiding it from the audience. Very interesting in terms of storytelling. So much to love about this show. I don't LOVE Charlie's parents but I think they acted alright at the dinner scene given the situation. I don't know if either of them butting in to be like "well our son is gay actually" would've helped the situation, I think they realized it was tense for Nick and Charlie and it was up to them to come out in that moment but particularly up to Nick since it is his dad. I think Charlie also kind of allows himself to be put back in the closet at that moment because him saying "I'm actually gay" might arise suspicion in Nick's dad about Nick's relationship with Charlie before Nick has the chance to come out himself. It's unfortunate but most straight men don't just have gay best friends. But especially not best friends who you have dinner parties with and invite their whole family lol. Really good mates indeed. I also like that when Charlie says he's not very good at rugby, Jane makes this face and sound like she's sad that he's putting himself down at that moment. And then when Nick leaves the table, Julio gives Charlie a nod like permission (maybe not the right word) to go check in on Nick. I think in general people give Jane too much flack although some of it is definitely warranted. She's not the best mom and her and Julio haven't quite managed their coparenting styles. But I do think they love their kids and ultimately want what's best for them. Maybe I feel that way though because my mom was quite strict and severe at times but always loved me. My mom was a bit warmer though but she did not like any of my relationships and that was before I came out as bi and introduced her to my now-wife haha. But turned out alright in the end and we have a great relationship now. I also think that people romanticize Nick's mom a lot and miss where she fails a bit. Obviously she's lovely (and I mean... it's Olivia Colman), but also she's not perfect and it's a bit disappointing that when David is being an absolute biphobic prick to Nick, she does reprimand him but only about him swearing and about him going into Nick's room which really misses the point and David really needs a talking to about his bigoted beliefs. It's difficult because obviously David's her son so she kind of has to love that prick but still... Anyway I just rambled a bunch but I think you can appreciate having a lot to say about something haha. Love your reactions as always! Excited to watch the last one but a bit sad, it's been a fun ride.
@mamabeth834
Жыл бұрын
I thought I was the only person who noticed that moment with Jane at the dinner table. She definitely is a bit strict, but I think she really does love her children.
@silverdragon-silberdrache8799
Жыл бұрын
It's so much fun to see your reactions! Charlie's sister Tori is the best!!! 🤩🥳
@mamabeth834
Жыл бұрын
I feel like I'm the only one who was so angry with Ben's 'apology', and it's because it wasn't genuine. In fact, each time I watch a reaction or rewatch the episode it makes me even angrier at Ben. As someone who was in a relationship like that as a teen (I'm now 40- so a long time ago), I remember those BS apologies. I would keep going back and forgiving them because they would 'accept responsibility'. I clocked immediately how Ben's apology mask slipped several times when Charlie was reading him down. Nick was right when he said that Ben never really liked Charlie, he just liked having control over him. His home life doesn't excuse his behavior. One thing I noticed throughout both seasons is just how predatory Ben is. He's always creeping up on Charlie, practically stalking him, as well as verbally, emotionally, and physically abusing him. He even does the mental abuse on both Imogen and Nick throughout the second season- but Charlie is the main release valve for his rage. Yes, part of it is a lot of self-hatred, but I believe, based on the incredible portrayal of Sebastian Croft, that he is also a narcissistic psychopath. My oldest is Charlie's age and he pointed out that if Imogen had confronted Ben alone, or if Nick hadn't been with Charlie at the opening, he likely would have physically attacked them. I think... as humans and as members of the LGBT community, we want to give those around us the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately, there are horrible people in every community, even ours.
@KayDeeKeySull
4 ай бұрын
As someone who is on the aromantic and asexual spectrums, the representation we got this season was in my opinion awesome. It is HUGE to have 1) the terms stated explicitly and 2) isaac's journey of discovery written by someone who's aroace as well. I'm very excited to see where Alice takes him next season, and anything else we will likely be seeing from any of the other characters (iykyk)!!
@roberthastings6608
Жыл бұрын
Loved this reaction. Can't wait to see the next one.
@mlee6050
Жыл бұрын
I forgot what show it was where there was a bit at funeral and someone actually said you are next to the oldest one there
@JonahUK
Жыл бұрын
Hi Liam! I fully support another video discussing "Heartstopper" if you're able to. I'd like to give some thoughts on Ben, his apology, and if he deserves forgiveness. I've seen comments from both sides, but most wanting forgiveness for him, I'm sure comes from their own kind hearts and empathy, things Ben himself lacks. Looking at his behaviour up to this point, he's been cruel and manipulative, and I'm sure he only got with Imogen to taunt Nick. The previous words from Ben was that he wanted Charlie back, and I think the "apology" was a manipulation to open dialog with Charlie and gain sympathy. If Charlie had given Ben an inch, I bet he'd have taken a mile, and then run to tell Nick. Also, I found Charlie's words worrying, telling Ben that he "took what he wanted, when he wanted" suggests more than non-consensual kissing to me, and that poor little 14 year old Charlie might have been forced to engage in sexual behaviour that he didn't want. They did only meet up at school so I hope not, but to me it's very suggestive of that. I do wonder if Ben's behaviour will become relevant again further along Charlie's mental health journey.
@mlee6050
Жыл бұрын
That be a bad school if anyone went that far while there, none of schools I was at had anyone like that, my thought is all waiting for legal age
@ThatsMyUsborneBook
10 ай бұрын
@mlee6050 there is a lot of sexual abuse by kids in schools in the UK unfortunately. It's a big thing in the news here.
@mlee6050
10 ай бұрын
@@ThatsMyUsborneBook I don't watch news but I'm in UK my whole life, I wish was more 20 something year old people as in like the guy who hangs out with a kid to make sure he isn't bullied
@therocpd
Жыл бұрын
I find the Ben plot challenging, on the one hand theres a big part of me that loves what they did with Charlie saying no he doesnt have to forgive and especially that he doesnt need to see Ben better himself. But then i keep flashing back to that Buffy episode 2x19 when Giles says "To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's not done because people deserve it, it's done because they need it.”
@withxoutxlife
Жыл бұрын
I like the reference, but context definitely matters in regards to forgiveness. When it comes to someone who was abused and forgiving their abuser, I feel like the abuser is never *owed* that act of compassion. While I love the actor they have for Ben, and I am sympathetic to the character's struggles, that doesn't absolve the damage that he's done to Charlie. Its not on Charlie to give Ben what he needs any longer.
@jaygatz4335
Жыл бұрын
@@withxoutxlife He should have told Ben to get help and to check in with them in six months. Leave the door slightly ajar.
@KayDeeKeySull
4 ай бұрын
Something that really hurts as an aroace person (but i get it) is James' statement of "there's nothing wrong with you" (10/10, no notes) IMMEDIATELY followed up with "you just haven't found the right person yet" (noooooo). Even well meaning, as i believe it was here, think about it from other perspectives. Like telling a straight guy "you just must not have found the right man yet". I believe James genuinely meant it as a keep your hopes up thing, and we have yet to see where Isaac falls in terms of being favorable of or repulsed by sex and romance, but it's just evidence that representation matters even within a fictional universe. The art show could easily have been the first time he ever heard those terms, let alone knowing that they could apply to him, so it's entirely possible that James (or any of the other characters, too) has never heard those terms to know that being aro and/or ace was a thing
@mlee6050
Жыл бұрын
I don't see that she is busy but as experience that she barely mess up so rarely has to be around for her scenes
@kaz555
Жыл бұрын
I find the differences in the mothers interesting. Darcy's mum and David 🤬 Tori, Nick and Elle ❤. Issac 🤗
@mlee6050
Жыл бұрын
Unsure if dad accept or approve sound better, so know they was filming in someone house so she didn't actually get to kick the phone out david hand as would of damaged the wall but she really wanted to do it for real
@carystras9248
Жыл бұрын
I really don't know what you expected Charlie's parents to do at the dinner. Interject and out their son to his boyfriends father, who they've met like an hour ago and who clearly doesn't know about the relationship? For all they know Nick's father could be a raging homophobe. Not to mention that knowing Charlie's sexuality, combined with David's insinuations and the fact that the Springs have been invited to the family dinner in the first place might very well acomplish what David set out to do and out Nick to his father involunatrily. Yeah, David was being an ahole and derserved to be told off, but Nick's Mom should have been the one to step in, not Charlie's parents, he's HER son. The fandom really tends to act like Nick's Mom is perfect and Charlie's parents are villains, but she never actually calls David out about his biphobia, only about riling Nick up by going in his room. Charlie's parents aren't perfect, particularly his mom, but neither is Nick's mom. (We will not mention Stefan since he doesn't really deserve the term father)
@LiamDuke
Жыл бұрын
I'd hope Tori gets how she handled the situation from them is all. I know it's in character for them to stay silent, and as I've mentioned previously it can be down to how they themselves were raised, but I think it's okay to expect better, at the very least after it had kicked off.
@ccasserole5267
Жыл бұрын
This is a weird argument. Nick's mom not being 100% perfect does not absolve Charlie's parents from their substantial emotional neglect of Charlie and Tori. Especially, when that parenting style directly influences/exacerbates their son's clearly evident patterns of self harm. It's also incredibly ironic that Nick's mom observes Charlie not eating during that dinner, yet Charlie's own parents remains absolutely clueless.
@ccasserole5267
Жыл бұрын
@@LiamDuke It speaks volumes about the Spring family dynamic that Tori has consistently taken on the protector role for Charlie, even in the company of their parents.
@CyanHope
Жыл бұрын
The fact that every time it’s Tori who has to be Charlie’s protector even when they are present shows a lot. They could’ve spoken without outing Charlie or Nick to his father. David with his comments wasn’t simply mocking Nick but also Charlie, which is their son. They could’ve made a comment on how it wasn’t his place to comment on Nick and Charlie’s relationship or it wasn’t his place to talk about Charlie in general. They don’t even realize Charlie starves himself and they live with him, it was Nick who realized he does and Sarah noticed he didn’t touch food. Yes, Sarah isn’t perfect but her situation is different from theirs. She is a position where she is technically asked to choose between her kids, which isn’t easy for her since she is their mother plus she probably doesn’t want to “abandon” David like his father did, making it even more difficult to her to actively speak against him, which btw she does during the dinner telling him to stop that they’ve had enough of his comments. Charlie’s parents are very absent and they even have an imbalance of power as his mom makes all the decisions without taking into consideration her husband, Charlie or Tori. We saw it when she enforced the ban, grounded Charlie and threatened him that he wouldn’t go to Paris, and if we consider all of their actions adding the fact that their son just got out of an year filled with bullying, it makes it even worst as they don’t stop and think that their son needs them to be understanding. Also she made the unnecessary comment about Charlie’s coursework when she was speaking with Charlie, reminding him that she still has problems with his boyfriend. They aren’t even comparable.
@ericfreshcorn3590
Жыл бұрын
I Want A Boyfriend Who Will love Respect me Promise He Will Never leave me I Live in Ohio Anyone in or near my Location is Near Indiana And Michigan I Support the LGBT Orgininaation
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