Thanks for digging up yet another modifier that literally is bugged and does nothing
@zoroasper9759
2 жыл бұрын
One day Paradox needs to do a general UI clean-up removing fake modifier icons and changing ones that don't work as the icons show
@CatnamedMittens
2 жыл бұрын
Won't happen, can't sell it as dlc
@dylanram4653
5 ай бұрын
is there any mods to fix this that doesnt change anything?
@MrNicoJac
2 жыл бұрын
I just LOVE the *indignation* in Stealth's voice as he's talking about Paradox math making zero sense 😆👍🏼
@Bradley_UA
2 жыл бұрын
It's indignation
@MrNicoJac
2 жыл бұрын
@@Bradley_UA Oh, well spotted, thanks! (teaches me not to write comments while already in bed, haha)
@arya.n.8252
2 жыл бұрын
The math is working paradoxically
@keepsmiling7645
7 ай бұрын
I hate that I find this joke funny xD
@hammotimee
2 жыл бұрын
Every video of yours I watch puts wrinkles on my brain. Great stuff
@CM-db5cg
2 жыл бұрын
The worst thing is this is so easily fixed, just add a defending on fort/river battle modifer and leave it empty, so these modifers have something to modify.
@neilangelomolleda7283
2 жыл бұрын
I think the river defense is applied as breakthrough? Isn't that the logic that PDX uses? Defense (defending) = Breakthrough (attacking)
@CM-db5cg
2 жыл бұрын
@@neilangelomolleda7283 ok but, you don't get any breakthrough ON THE FUCKING DEFENCE. So whatever spagetti code their using it's not being applied. Edit: on second read I understand that you're referring to the attacking division. For one, that's just blatantly not the case, you don't get extra breakthrough, and two even if it was the case it'd be incongruent with the rest of the UI design because all of the other modifiers that apply do apply on the defence and the defence only.
@GusanGaming
2 жыл бұрын
I remember doing a Japan game and my Naval invasion had their damamge ticking up for some reason, it was only ticking up by like 1 or 2 an hour with 500 SA that change wouldn't be noticeable with your low stats, maybe naval invasion progress does provide a buff but a tiny buff that your stats are too low to see
@---ii8hl
2 жыл бұрын
isnt the naval tech affecting only some "base" naval malus and not the unit type malus? like, game would add two maluses, one from unit, one from general malus, but only add bonus to the generic malus? should be in the defines somewhere.
@mrkitty1997
2 жыл бұрын
Ok...but if I have just the company added and 2 support equipment per unit, do I still get the same % bonus as fully equipped engineers?
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
You lose stats based on the percentage of equipment missing. If you have 2 support companies and both need 10 support equipment and you only have 10. Then both support companies will operate at 50% efficiency.
@Sgtbrony
Жыл бұрын
Could the defense stats that seemingly do nothing on stuff like forts, could it be affecting breakthrough because the game considers it a defense stat?
@redadmiral4247
2 жыл бұрын
well those things might confuse some because defense is works both way, breakthrough is breakthrough but defense is both.
@JesperAndersen
3 ай бұрын
Isn't the naval defence bonus to invasions a bonus to Ships, not men?
@oddersisadog
7 ай бұрын
I was playing hoi4 owb mod and defending southern Mexico and there are like 12 river crossings and now I'm not even sure I want to defend them. I was making individual armies for each crossing and it was confusing as fuck.
@withche07
2 жыл бұрын
are you reporting these bugs to devs directly through forums?
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
I've reported some of them.
@thatdudethat7824
Жыл бұрын
Me: Green number go brrrrr
@Propaganda99
2 жыл бұрын
can you talk about the defense/breakthough thing? for example +10% defense gives divisions breakthough
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
I did when I went through all the division stats and what they mean.
@Propaganda99
2 жыл бұрын
@@71Cloak thank you, i will check it out right now
@pubcollize
2 жыл бұрын
I guess balance guys forgot to send a memo to the UI guys about some of these modifiers, because in terms of balance all of these modifiers play very well. Maybe it would make sense for engineers to increase defense in forts, but lvl10 forts are already OP so the engi bonus would have to have diminishing returns if any. And a 50% bonus to landing would make landing way way too easy, esp with shore bombardment. Also I wonder how far back this goes, because it *seemed* as if engis give bonus to defense in forts. Not rigorously tested and nothing to back this up. And if it's indeed a UI issue then perhaps the actual outcomes of battles should be measured, if the numbers that are presented are suspected to be false - who says the numbers on the battle progress aren't false as well.
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
River Defense bonus in particular has never actually given a defensive bonus when defending across a river, so most of these probably haven't ever worked. Its just nobody said anything.
@pubcollize
2 жыл бұрын
@@71Cloak Sure, but balance-wise River Crossing already gives a decent penalty esp when coupled with Entrenchment. Since the balance of river crossing is reasonable, it's *possible and likely* that they simply nullified that buff without updating the UI about it. One could test it synthetically by giving a defender some defensive traits similar to what River Defense claims to give, and attacking it with various reasonable divisions to see how well they break through the river. If it feels too easy to break rivers without this modifier, then yeah maybe it's a balance bug. But my guess is you'll find that adding an extra buff to river defense will make rivers OP. There are definitely balance issues in the game, I just don't think River and Naval Invasion are of them.
@Andovn
2 жыл бұрын
@@71Cloak You forgot to mention one thing about forts. The negative modifier from forts becomes less powerful if you attack from multiple directions. You basically remove one fort level per direction you attack from. E.g. the province above strasbourg can be attacked from 5 directions. Attacking from 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 directions will give the modifiers -150%, -135%, -120%, -105% or -90% without enigneers for attacker and -140%, -125%, -110%, -95% or -80% with enigneers for attacker, respectively.
@andthe4010
6 ай бұрын
So you're saying never build forts because they don't actually give any defensive bonuses?
@filce1232
3 ай бұрын
now they actually do give a defensive bonus
@Fck178
Жыл бұрын
Forts give penalties to the attacker’s! Did you check if the penalty go up with engeniers in the defense?
@71Cloak
Жыл бұрын
No really, i had no clue. Of course the penalty doesn't change, the engineers are on the opposite side, it would impact them or noone.
@KyleJohnson-ny7uu
2 жыл бұрын
Certified paradox moment
@JP-uu3xg
2 жыл бұрын
Another top tier video, you have the most consistently good hoi4 content on youtube by far. I'm curious what you think is the most important thing you would want changed in future DLC/patches? Personally im stoked for the italy focus tree and the air rework, but also wish finland and Belgium got some love and navy had some actual incentives to build (rework).
@personalaccount8914
2 жыл бұрын
fix the spaghetti code
@omo7002
2 жыл бұрын
Now that it has been determined that the naval invasion defense tech bonus has some weird math to it, is it the same from the spy bonus? as that is supposed the give naval invasion defense bonuses in the state.
@RobinMeineke
2 жыл бұрын
Why do we learn that so many stats and modifiers don’t work after the game has been released for so many years? I hope you are in contact with the team so we can rely on the modifiers in the future. Because at this point I can’t be sure if any modifier shown is actually real or if it works as intended.
@rikai5344
2 жыл бұрын
And thats a big part of why i stopped playing HOI
@johngalt5166
Жыл бұрын
@@rikai5344 bah I love hoi, I just stopped playing because I had to go to college and don’t have my PC lol (but I still buy all the dlc), as soon as I get home I’ll get back on, I just hope they fixed everything but then.
@kvlt1349
2 жыл бұрын
I made a post on reddit about naval invasion penalties ages ago. I'll include the relevant parts here. First, the modifier "naval invasion defense" decreases your amphibious assault penalty. You can get up to 165% naval invasion defense. 15% from the second transport tech, 50% from the third, and a conditional modifier of up to 100% on states in which you have a spy network built up. The modifier is linear with the spy network. This modifier is then divided by 3.5 in order to determine the actual reduction to your amphibious assault penalty. In the best case, with 165%, your amphibious assault penalty will be reduced to 1 - 1.65/3.5 = 53% of what it otherwise displays that it should have been. Second, you always have a multiplicative 101% penalty to amphibious assaults for no reason. Because f you, that's why. Third, many people forget that revealing broken cyphers provides a flat +15% additive modifier to amphibious assaults. This stacks with the +25% from engineers, the average modifiers from the battalions in the division, and the base -70%. All told, the equation for the naval invasion penalty should be (1 + ((-0.7 + avg bn penalty + engineers? + cyphers?) (1 - invasion defense / 3.5) (1.01)) capped between -0.99 and 0) When you navally invade a province, while your divisions are moving from the sea tile to the land tile, they are in an state of "invasion progress" to represent the troops disembarking from their invasion craft and forming up on the beaches. It ends when they have made enough movement progress to reach the land tile, ie when the movement arrow if fully filled in. Obviously they can't actually move into said tile because they're in combat with the enemy divisions standing there. The modifier begins at -80% attack and +50% breakthrough and decays linearly to zero when "all troops have landed."
@alderontyran
2 жыл бұрын
Don't Marine/Amtrac/Amtank battalions effect the math as well?
@kvlt1349
2 жыл бұрын
@@alderontyran they are included in the average battalion penalty. they are not separately added the way engineers are.
@TheCetarius
2 жыл бұрын
The math is overly complicated. Why not just make the modifier a number like the others?
@kvlt1349
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCetarius because it's not. it is the average of all the amphibious modifiers of all the battalions in the division. I literally can't make it just a number because the amount of amphibious attack bonus one amtank provides is different than the bonus the second provides, and the bonus is also different in a 16 width division than it is in a 44 width. the fact of the matter is, you just have to look at the terrain modifiers at the bottom of the division template.
@alderontyran
2 жыл бұрын
@@kvlt1349 "Paradox Math" I see 😅
@roebuck554
2 жыл бұрын
In regards to 6:55 , look at the defines AMPHIBIOUS_INVADE_ATTACK_LOW, AMPHIBIOUS_INVADE_ATTACK_HIGH, AMPHIBIOUS_INVADE_DEFEND_LOW and AMPHIBIOUS_INVADE_DEFEND_HIGH in the NNavy namespace. The numbers you're showing don't line up with it (of course) and I'm not sure why the modifiers aren't shown under the attack/defense tooltips but just Paradox things.
@gonshi9
2 жыл бұрын
Wow the inconsistency of hoi4 key words is insane. Some 'defense' ("+_% defense") modifiers apply to the defense stat, others to both defense and breaktrough, and now these do apply to all (combat) stats while on defense?? Just wow
@nts4058
2 жыл бұрын
damn you know cloak is big now because the spam bots are in here
@sudpud
2 жыл бұрын
I *think* the reason it’s based as a factor of 20% is because marines get a +50% against the -70% Malus. It’s only applying to the remaining anti-marine malus.
@Twadfire
2 жыл бұрын
Again, 71Clock going in deep and showing some real data here. A bunch of stuff i'd assumed worked.. just didnt. Did no one in paradox tested this basic stuff? I bet these bugs/forgotten stats were in the game for ages. Gotta love how paradox cant make up their mind about their core vocabulary.. what words mean.. "defense" can mean like 5 completely different things depending on unit/context/whatever. Confusing.
@TheGodkitty
2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes my regulated dose of broken hoi4 mechanics
@marthvader14
2 жыл бұрын
I hope at least one dev watches your videos and tells the others to fix these bugs
@digitallee5006
2 жыл бұрын
IT JUST WORKS!
@nicohms7829
Жыл бұрын
Estoy escuchando a alguien tratándome de explicar algo que ni los desarrolladores lograron entender ... Gracias por la info y el esfuerzo de enseñarnos.
@kinmersha
2 жыл бұрын
New cloak video, new broken mechanics to learn about.
@AssassinAgent
2 жыл бұрын
Paradox math™ is the best kind of math
@DirkusTurkess
2 жыл бұрын
Classic Paradox maths.
@christopherlieske5946
Жыл бұрын
Did they fix this?
@b00bb0ss6
2 жыл бұрын
OMG how the hell did it take so long for the community to find this out?
@johnsmith-wi2cb
2 жыл бұрын
Why is your AA just named all lowercase 'aa'
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
I renamed them during a different test to make them easier to distinguish.
@GregAtlas
Жыл бұрын
I think the river modifier somewhat makes sense because the defenders aren't actually in the river but the attackers have to be in the river to cross it. Defenders just shoot from the land on the other side. If they're going to list a modifier, they should probably actually apply that modifier. That would also give more reason to have amphibious tanks/transports since it would be almost impossible without them.
@J7Handle
2 ай бұрын
Some movement modifiers apply when entering the relevant position and some when leaving (deep snow applies twice for some reason). Generally, weather modifiers apply when moving out of the weather, not in, and terrain modifiers apply when moving in. So maybe forts are like weather.
@andrewschultz7499
2 жыл бұрын
The fort movement speed and fort defense stuff must be glitches right?
@dylanram4653
5 ай бұрын
are there any mods which fix the ui, not to change anything but just makes stats how it rly is
@lukebeich
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe fort movement is from a fort tile and not to one?
@pyromaniacaloctoling5957
Жыл бұрын
Does anyone know if paradox has patched this yet?
@sld1776
Жыл бұрын
The game makes it sound that engineers are great for fort defense and it turns out you should add AA, AT, or ART because every other brigade is either irrelevant or doesn't work.
@niku4154
2 жыл бұрын
I always wonder how HOI4 manages to run so horribly but then I realise it does A LOT of useless Math.
@sethyboy0
2 жыл бұрын
Another day another nothing in this game fucking works (or doesn’t work as expected)
@RunicRhino22
Жыл бұрын
Do marines have a hidden invasion defence stat which pdx designed that invasion tech around?
@para31
2 жыл бұрын
does fort and river defense impact breakthrough?
@tomxipe
2 жыл бұрын
To me this is the best HoI IV youtuber worldwide
@mr.hugemustache5152
2 жыл бұрын
i have a question. soo in the endgame, if you have too much cas, like 1000, enemy units on the frontline just seem to disappear when they hit last stand. why is that?
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
Last stand affects the strength damage cas does. You are literally strength deleting those divisions.
@shermonruler
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the defence would apply if your attacking unit is then getting attacked while still attacking?
@maverick0614
Жыл бұрын
The breakthrough stat is being used to defend the attacker against the defender's attacks
@Hello-xb2cd
Жыл бұрын
Did you check if a defending div on the fort had engineers in them? Because in a test i did, they get a defense bonus while defending with engineer company
@71Cloak
Жыл бұрын
Its been a major patch cycle since this video came out. They have partially patched it. Fort defense bonus gives half the benefit most terrain bonuses give. It will increase you defense now but does not increase spft attack or hard attack when defending which the normal terrain traits do.
@Hello-xb2cd
Жыл бұрын
@@71Cloak maybe i am stupid here, but ofcourse fort defense doesn't give you soft/hard attack. It gives you defense. Isn't that the same with terrain modifiers? I don't know for sure but i don't think forest defense gives you more soft/hard attack but rather breakthrough/defense
@71Cloak
Жыл бұрын
@@Hello-xb2cd if you go back and watch the video, yes all the other terrain traits do give soft/hard attack bonuses in their respective terrain.
@derkoh
2 жыл бұрын
what are ur pc specs?
@71Cloak
2 жыл бұрын
Old. I5-8600k 1070ti 32 gb of ram A motherboard 3 tbs of hdd No ssd.
@logangustavson
2 жыл бұрын
SECOND!
@JP-uu3xg
2 жыл бұрын
Third!
@legoman2m98
2 жыл бұрын
1st!
@maxxgrumpy
2 жыл бұрын
there is a lot of crazy maths on this game, do they answer someone? or it's just like YT for example, accept or leave?
@Dark_Plum
2 жыл бұрын
3:53 Rivers don't give defensive bonus just attacking malus simply because in one battle some divisions may attack across river and some may attack from other province that doesn't cause river crossing. I guess same thing is with naval invasion.
@magni5648
2 жыл бұрын
Well, yeah. But then why bother with a river defense bonus that cannot be claimed?
@madensmith7014
2 жыл бұрын
@@magni5648 Spaghetti code broke. The logic that the devs wanted to happen is there, but compared to other bugs this one is quite hidden in the numbers to get a ticket.
@kierano8390
2 жыл бұрын
@@magni5648 the defense bonus is claimed for the attackers in breakthrough
@neilangelomolleda7283
2 жыл бұрын
@@kierano8390 This is actually the most logically sound answer. Props to you
Пікірлер: 98