Another reason why temp stable powders in reloading are super important.
@AlaskanBallistics
3 жыл бұрын
What are good stable temp powders in your opinion?
@awsomedude12345678
3 жыл бұрын
@@AlaskanBallistics h4350 is king of all medium slow powders along with varget however put a couple shells in the freezer and shoot them along side your others
@cs9978
3 жыл бұрын
This has quickly become one of my favorite channels.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
I'm pleased to hear that CS. Thanks.
@johnkaraphillis754
3 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your videos Ron. I’ve enjoyed almost50 years of hunting and enjoying the outdoors. The information you pass and the content of them are enjoyable as well as beneficial. It saddens me to see the moral fabric and compass of this beautiful country of ours deteriorate. Hunting and the outdoors and our way of life is very critical for my wellness. Thanks again Ron
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, John. I believe the moral compass has swung so wildly to the crazy, foolish side that folks will finally wake up and demand change. Just hope it doesn't have to be violent. History is not on our side.
@Jk-qw7ey
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Ron I wish I learned this on Wednesday. Yesterday I went sheep hunting at 10800ft with my 6.5 creedmore using 143gr eld x ammo. There was a giant black hawaiian mouflon ram 400 yards away. The sun was heating everything up at this point. I over compensated and shot just right over his back. Hell or high water im gonna get me that black ram next time.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Jeez, that's too bad. Well, I think we'll all been there done that.
@sebastianhabel7312
3 жыл бұрын
As a guy who always goes to the same gun range, I never even thought of the influence of altitude on the zero of a rifle. Good video!
@peterparsons7141
Жыл бұрын
Ron, we were on an subarctic Caribou hunt 10 years ago in January. There happened to be what they call an Article outflow. This is a blast of extreme cold from the arctic. The thermometer hit -48c or -54 f on one day. Of the many extreme things that happen under those conditions, 1 thing stands out. my partner & I, were travelling on ski-doo. A lone caribou was walking across a pond. From a small hill at 150 yards, I fired one shot. We both looked at the rifle, because the noise was like nothing Ive ever heard, it made noise but not a blast. Partner says what happened, did it fire, however the Caribou had collapsed mid stride hit behind front shoulder. Other weird things about extreme cold.. No hand loads worked. (Expert handloaders, properly sealed cases etc.) Some rifled actions will not open or close, most are difficult to open or close , light pin strikes( even properly degreased..etc) Thankfully, that weather only lasted for 1 day, and then we were back to normal -30c or warmer.
@dccajc1
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for doing this vid its important
@bluegrassbassing3790
3 жыл бұрын
Yep
@danielmaine45
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! As you noted, for most hunting inside 400 yards the difference isn't often enough to make a difference... however many powders give drastically different muzzle velocity with these 80 degree swings. What does the affect of that , muzzle velocity change, coupled with altitude and temperature changes have?
@MrPh30
3 жыл бұрын
A friend who was army sniper ,he said next to body in the thermo underwear they had a pocket to put the pouch of 5-10 .338 Lap Mag cartridges in . Due to the cold affecting the ammo, rifle was zsroed with body temp ammo.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, some powders are quite sensitive to temp change. New powders are increasingly modified to remain constant.
@TheWVgoodguy22
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all you do, including braving out into the cold and snow these past few videos including the past two videos on lever guns that I enjoyed. Way to bring the science. I try and use powders that are not temperature sensitive when I can. My youngest brother was going to order a CDS dial for his 7mm Rem Mag for his mule deer 🦌 hunt in Idaho in 2019. We are at 1200 ft above sea level and there it was in that 6500-7500 range. According to those charts he wouldn't have had to spend the $75 for the dial. Which he didn't anyway since he took his 270 Winchester that had a Windplex turret on it instead. He is much more consistent and accurate with that rifle so that gave him confidence. Side note, you used in this test a caliber that I have wanted for a while. A 22-250 that can actually shoot those 70+ grain bullets with speed. Congratulations on your monster Nebraska whitetail too.
@carlosugarte1450
3 жыл бұрын
Ron makes it so easy to understand, entertaining and so pleasant to watch. Brilliant.
@daveknowles3055
3 жыл бұрын
Really enjoy your video's. I find that your explanations make sense to me and I understand the concepts, some of the other people on KZitem not so much.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thabnks Dave. That's what I try to accomplish -- making thing understandable. Don't always succeed!
@douglasmcneil6689
3 жыл бұрын
At the ranges I tend to shoot I noticed on your charts there was no real differences. But then I don't see myself ever shooting anything past 250 yards max.
@tealtazmanian966
2 жыл бұрын
You just made MY DAY. I've always gotten slack about how I think trajectory really doesn't change that much when considering temps and altitude. I've ONLY GONE by MY FINDINGS and keep in mind that I'm No Scientist or mathematician. I just keep my AIM the same no matter the elevation or temps and seem to get on target without making any adjustments........THEN I keep my Game Shooting under 450yrds MAX these days...been out at the 550yrds but didn't get the instant kills so my new limit is at least a hundred yards shorter...FOR ME. You've dispelled the myths and put it ALL into perspective according to distance, temp and elevation for us laymen hunters. Thanks again Ron and Please KEEP 'EM COMING.
@crich1218
2 жыл бұрын
Ron looks like you've paid a visit to Barney's in Anchorage. Nice jacket 👌
@lastsonofadam1927
2 жыл бұрын
My parents have the same stone backsplash in the living room around the fireplace. Love these information videos and I feel right at home 👍
@kabarriot2841
3 жыл бұрын
Best Channel on KZitem!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Very kind of you Thomas.
@johnbennett7244
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Ron: I read one your articles about creating the .260 Rem. rifle. Beautiful. Then, I got in on the 2nd. season of Wildcraft: West of Somewhere. Didn't care much for the first 2-3 episodes at the ranch, on the road, etc. But, when you finally got after the auodad my interest perked. Great video, and I look forward to watching more.
@bangsdagong
3 жыл бұрын
eye opening Ron!! fantastic! you explained this perfectly!!!!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks bangs!
@dougi1967
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome info Ron. Thanks for the facts.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Doug.
@CJ-zx4zt
2 жыл бұрын
love your content. very very informative and engaging without a kill shot! thanks again Ron
@slidermann255
3 ай бұрын
Thankyou for this video, I am just about to head away on a winter Bull Tahr hunt and am sighted in at sea level and will be hunting at 1200m, this info confirms what I felt would happen, most of my hunting is kept within 400m anyway, Cheers from New Zealand
@chouyi007
3 жыл бұрын
Shooting on warm days way up in the Wind River Range in Wyoming is amazing; everything shoots so much flatter!
@jamesr7552
10 ай бұрын
Leaving tomorrow to go out west on an Idaho elk hunt. Great video, thanks for the information.
@keatonjohnson263
3 жыл бұрын
I know this random but I lost my job of five years and thank the Lord I have new job and watching your channel was the only think that really cheered me up when I lost my job
@bradbo3
3 жыл бұрын
Im on a 5 night stretch at work and binge watching this channel……so far Ive loved every video. Between this one and MeatEater Im picking up new info every episode.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Welcome aboard! Glad to have you.
@mothergooose7
3 жыл бұрын
Ron....good info. Nothing like some good ol Idaho weather to test this stuff in
@bruceholinight7978
3 жыл бұрын
As an outfitter in Saskatchewan all my life I saw most of my client's rifle's to be low and off zero (80%) , on Sunday we spent all day rezeroing rifle's one shot at a time on a cold barrel !
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Makes sense, Bruce. Colder air, denser air. You were wise to make them zero.
@camwinston5248
2 жыл бұрын
I just watched this again...extremely interesting topic..great video ! And comment on the deer..that was an outstanding impressive whitetail !! Congrats Ron !
@RonSpomerOutdoors
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Cam. Glad you enjoyed.
@406MountainMan
3 жыл бұрын
Hunting high in Colorado... You'd think he was more concerned about the Pringles in his backpack than ballistics tables. On a serious note, thanks for the content. I was a ballistician in a previous life. Love it!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@thedamnyankee1
3 жыл бұрын
You could hide an entire mid-level physics education in these videos.
@denverwynn4
10 ай бұрын
Thanks Ron, great stuff. I’d be interested to know if larger caliber bullets would be affected by changes in altitude to a greater extent due to the increase in drag when compared to the .22 caliber. I noticed a larger difference with my .270 when compared to what that chart indicates that I should have experienced. I zeroed my rifle right at sea level for 200 yards, and rechecked it at around 5400ft above sea level. It was hitting about 3” higher at 200yds at the higher elevation. I could have goofed something, but I didn’t drop or notice any impacts to the rifle, and I was quite confident in my work. I wonder if the larger diameter bullet made a difference at that shorter difference. It was also a bit warmer when I zeroed the rifle. I love your work, thanks for sharing with everyone. -Denver
@Iceaxehikes
3 жыл бұрын
I live at 9,000 ft and do a lot of shooting here so all my sights are set for here. This explains why i hit low down at the range at 3,800 ft.
@Perjorativeterm
3 жыл бұрын
Love your content, Ron. Have a comment for the algorithm.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Aaron. Feel free to add your algorithm content whenever. The more we learn from one another the better.
@bongdudugenio9947
3 жыл бұрын
Here's again my idol this is a very interesting episode.
@tonnywildweasel8138
3 жыл бұрын
Once again i learned a lot from you sir. Thank you very much! Realy appreciate it. Greets from the Netherlands, Tonny.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Wild Weasel.
@jefferywilliams7687
Жыл бұрын
Norma does research on impacts on temperature of your ammunition and impact points. Suggestion is to keep your ammo warm next to your body. 2nd question. When it get a cold metal contracts. How much impact does this have on muzzle velocity.
@buildingalaskahomestead
3 жыл бұрын
Great video and information but The bigger factor in that 456 yard shot landing high was the fact you were shooting uphill steep uphill or downhill shots drop less
@HernanMoragaMmHs
3 жыл бұрын
Great explanation!
@luchacefox259
3 жыл бұрын
I'm always cold and High on opening day. Probably should wear warmer socks and my problems would be solved ;)
@paulvenn4447
3 жыл бұрын
Damn Ron hope you're staying warm! That snow looks thick!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
We cut and stacked 3 cords of hard maple firewood, so we've been cozy. Snow is melting now! We need the moisture.
@MrTacklebury
3 жыл бұрын
Great info!
@danbasham9207
3 жыл бұрын
I live at 6k and my hunting varies between 5300k to 11k. I don't notice a huge difference when taking game from 50ish to 400ish yards.
@couespursuit7350
3 жыл бұрын
Odd caliber to use for discussing big game hunting out west at elevation, would think 270, 30-06 or 7mm RM would be a more useful example. I might have missed it but what about high elevation and warmer temperatures. In my 30 years of hunting deer in Utah I have been at 7 thousandish feet in snow storms and days where I was perspiring in a T shirt. My nit picking aside this is a great subject to discus. When I get to hunting camp I run my ballistic app on my phone using prevailing conditions to check my drops. If needed I will make a new drop card for the current situation. Exactly like you said out to 400-450 yards its not much but nice to be precise as possible.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
The cartridge/bullet were just props for illustrating the points which are: the higher you go, the less the drag. The colder it gets, the more the drag. And vice versa. And all altered slightly by actual barometric (weather) changes from day to day. But, again, not much to worry about inside of 400 yards or so. Still, as you note, nice to know and be as precise as possible without having an anxiety attack over it.
@GeorgiaBoy1961
3 жыл бұрын
All other variables being equal, increased altitude should require less elevation hold since the air is less-dense than at sea level. Or "altitude up, sights down." Whereas the increased cold, all else being equal, is going to lessen the rate at which combustion occurs - cold slows down chemical reactions of all kinds - and also produce less-gas pressure behind the projectile than at lower altitude. Or, "temperature down, sights up." What was probably seen with that 450 yard shot with your existing ~ 1,000 feet above sea level zero, was the two effects more-or-less cancelling out one another. Seasoned long-range shooters use a number of methods to account for these variables. By compiling a thorough data (DOPE) book, under a wide variety of environmental conditions, once enough data has been collected, it can be highly-predictive and very useful. Using a good climate meter, as well as a high-quality ballistics program, also helps a great deal. If you really want to go the extra mile, you can buy an infra-red thermometer and along with a chronograph or doppler radar, you can track MV of a particular load versus ammo temperature. Once you get enough data points, the curve can be used to predict adjustments needed at various temperatures. The old-school way was to make sure your rifle and ammo are the same temperature as the surrounding environment, i.e., at ambient temperature, when chronograph readings are done. Conversely, if you find yourself hunting up high and in cold conditions, and want to squeeze a little extra MV out of your load, store it near your body core for warmth, or lay the shells in the sun for a few minutes to warm up. Seasoned LR/ELR shooters - whether professional soldiers, hunters, or competitors - tend to want to check/confirm/adjust their zeros every time they change density-altitude. Generally moving up/down 1000 feet is enough to throw off your zero at least a bit. As others commenting have noted, temperature-stable propellants have made the job of accounting for changing environmental conditions considerably easier than in the past.
@missey316
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for all your videos.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them!
@corycarlson8712
3 жыл бұрын
I would like to know how much a cold rifle or cold ammo effects your zero. I was in northern Wisconsin a few weeks ago and left my ar15 a2 w iron sights in my truck in - 20 degree weather. When I went to the range it was probably 10 degrees out. My ammo was room temp when I left but I'm sure it cooled down while I was at the range shooting. I wonder how much of a shift their would be using a cold gun and cold ammo vs if I were to shoot this summer with a warm gun and warm ammo. Or if you mix a cold gun with warm ammo or warm gun with super. Cold ammo. So many variables. Awesome video!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Good points, Cory. I was going to include the powder temp. in this, but, liek adding the angled shooting, it becomes too much for most viewers to sit through. More complicated, too. But it does reinforce the truth of the absolute best answer to all of this: get closer! Bad news on powders is that they can lose power with cold. And just how much varies from powder to powder. And with factory ammo we don't know what that powder is. Best we can do is test fire frozen vs. ambient temperature loads and see drop difference on paper or chronograph. Good news is most powders are being reformulated to be temperature insensitive, leaving one less thing to worry about.
@jmkhenka
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who hunts all fall and winter here, you need to zero for the weather. For deer at sub 150 yards it's not relevant but for varmint size targets you need to either zero with cold ammo or pocket-warm ammo and certain sorts of powder are to sensitive, single base extruded is the go-to, double base can affect velocity up to 10%
@ikesquirrel
3 жыл бұрын
Here in Wisconsin the weather can go from 70 and sunny to -20 the next day, so having temp stable powder is important.
@fenner1986
2 жыл бұрын
Was looking for a fellow Wisconsinite in the comments. I am kinda curious how much our most extreme temps could affect the powder. We can get down to -50's with windchill and I can't imagine that's healthy for anything (even us Wisconsinites are forced to say it's a bit nippy when it hits -50 :P). Obviously nobody would be hunting in that type of weather, that's take shelter type of weather, but I'm curious if someone were to shoot in it, how much would it affect things. Curiosity might kill the cat with me this winter if we hit that haha
@corycarlson8712
2 жыл бұрын
@@fenner1986 I usually leave my gun in the truck (cased overnight)... I wonder how much slower the ammo will be if I left the ammo in their overnight as well. It's got to have an effect. I know the higher end ammo usually has some temp resistant powders but it's still a great question.
@slamminhawgs9847
3 жыл бұрын
awesome!
@aronkoppold3981
9 ай бұрын
I live in Iowa and the air is heavy and dense so I'm sure it will drop off more
@AlaskanBallistics
3 жыл бұрын
Great Deer in Nebraska! Godspeed!
@davidtester1458
5 ай бұрын
Where van i find the charts on altatude changing bullet drop and wind drift for rifles and pistols. Thanks ahead of time for your wisdom. Ephesians 3:20 is so TRUE!
@cz-bundy6896
3 жыл бұрын
I experience this. It's exaggerated with my handloaded barnes 300 black 120gr. I can't wait to get a deer this year with it. I'm very happy with 2425fps (at 5800 ft above sea)
@dannytravis7118
3 жыл бұрын
just a thought. I think it's a good idea to test fire and check your gun at a range in the area your going to be hunting in and rezero if necessary then you can confidently shoot at game and confirm any ballistic change before going into the field.
@phprofYT
3 жыл бұрын
Bit jelly of you all out west. All I got to hunt is whitetail, rabbits, and coyotes and I'm not much a coyote hunter. Hard to find in the UP of Michigan and it seems to me you need all kids of electronic wizardry to even get a sight on one. Good video, Mr. Spomer.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Prof.
@waggtech8793
3 жыл бұрын
Density Altitude matters. The nice thing about running a Kestrel with AB is that is all calculated...
@leeadams5941
3 жыл бұрын
There are many programs you can install on your phone that will give you density altitude. Used mostly for flying but work fine for shooting
@dwightlooi
3 жыл бұрын
Just use a proper powder like the 4166, 4451 or 4955 and don't worry about temperature.
@Pch100
3 жыл бұрын
I remember having to study my charts as my father pick out random ranges and if I got one wrong I didn't get to go on that trip. But I made my boys learn the same way
@peacemaker-du4hz
3 жыл бұрын
think you could teach someone at 48 years old thats never even tried to shoot those distances
@gzzacordeon
3 жыл бұрын
What an awesome channel. What an awesome explanation. You have a way to explain things that makes them easy to understand. I appreciate your work. Thank you.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
You are most welcomed, Acordeonero.
@darrengarcia4937
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome vid!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Darren.
@PresMonroe
3 жыл бұрын
Ron you missed a big factor. That target up the hill was 456 yds by laser. But just a 20 degree angle uphill reduced the ballastic distance to 428 yds. Folks not factoring ANGLE may miss a shot.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, we'll cover angled shooting in another video. That angle was only 10.5-degrees.
@GeorgiaBoy1961
3 жыл бұрын
@ 1776: Yep, that's correct. Gravity has less time to work upon angled shot than a straight-and-level one, so you have to hold low whether you are shooting up or down-hill. How much depends on the angle. An angle-cosine device can help with that, and some range-finders now include "true ballistic range" features for high-angle shooting. A Whiz Wheel or Mil-Dot Master also does the correction. Dope it out back at base camp, and laminate a card to your rifle or carry it easy at hand.
@russellkeeling4387
Жыл бұрын
I don't know that I have ever hunted below 6000 feet. I live at 7544 feet. I have never worried about altitude and air density affecting my shots. What I have wondered about is whether snow flakes will deflect the bullet. During a snow storm there are no long shots but I know a 200 yard shot will hit snow flakes if it is snowing hard. Just wondering.
@catjackoff-road855
3 жыл бұрын
Love your vids ron
@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Ron, do a vid on trajectory changes due to shooting angle...No hunter probably ever shoots at 0 degree angle. I noticed your target was at an up hill angle. LOL.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Check out this report I did on that subject: www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/uphill-downhill-shooting-dilemma-solved?rq=uphill%20downhill%20shooting
@richardthomas6602
3 жыл бұрын
Cold air will also have lower humidity than warm air. Humid air is more dense than dry air. Just another variable that is probably not significant unless it is raining heavily.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Water in air makes for less drag because nitrogen molecules are heavier than water. But not enough dif. to worry about.
@blindboyjonny
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent as always, Ron. Hate to miss Betsy.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks blindboy. We'll get her back in here soon. Covey, too.
@robertrusso6347
3 жыл бұрын
Nice job! I should be so lucky to be hunting at 10,000 feet. Maybe someday!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Robert. I hope you get there. I think my record is 14,000 feet.
@jaydunbar7538
3 жыл бұрын
10° is cold? If you forgot your jacket it would be, but properly dressed its no issue. Also a buddy heater is your buddy, it can be -30 ill just turn up my heater lol. When I was a teen I didn't have a heater, below zero temps still never stopped me from hunting.
@georgeholt8929
3 жыл бұрын
You were also shooting pointing your gun up therefore the bullet is going to connect to the target is closer. All of your figures are computed at the level. While your pointing you gun up rather then on the level. Of course distance is going to cause the flight of the bullet to raise higher in flight therefore the air at the apex of the bullets flight the air is thinner.
@tommyj7087
3 жыл бұрын
I love your videos. Keep them coming. Question on this one. Doesn't the temp potentially alter your powder burn and therefore your muzzle velocity? They talk about temp stable powders. Your tables kept the muzzle velocity the same, but I think (scary :-) ) there are more variable at play here than just temp and alt.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, Tommy, temperature sensitive powders can change pressures/mv significantly. That is a topic I'll cover in a future video. Thanks.
@gizmocarr3093
3 жыл бұрын
I believe if you spend $10,000 dollars for a hunt of a lifetime makes hunting accuracy a tiny more important than shooting a ten on a paper target. Shooting long ranges and not being proficient doing it is a costly mistake. Most outfitters and hunting guides tend to frown on shooting at trophy animals at extreme distances. Fact is they don’t let clients do it; because they are the ones responsible to recover the animal for the client. Chasing after a poorly shot Elk is no fun at all; Bears are worse. If you insist doing it and wound an animal; don’t expect another chance until your next $10,000 dollar expedition. Trophy animals are too important to waste pulling stupid tricks. That is a seldom mentioned secret most outfitters don’t talk about.
@Imasaint22
3 жыл бұрын
Who pays 10k for outfitters? Most tags are cheap and it is way more fun to do it yourself on public land with friends and family!
@ultravioletexpress7873
3 жыл бұрын
Nobody going out west hunting in the mountains it's going to be using a 22-250 if he was going to illustrate this point you should have used a 270 or a 6.5 Creedmoor something going about 2,600 feet per second. His bullets were going 3200 ft per sec...
@perposterous1
3 жыл бұрын
I believe humidity can have an impact as well. colder the air the less moisture it can retain. Do we ever have to worry about barrels expanding or contracting when in extreme climates? Great Stuff here and keep up the awesome work!
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Sam. Yes, humidity has a small effect, generally not worth worrying about. Makes for less drag, so shots go higher, but barely. Nitrogen molecules are more dense than water, so humidity reduces drag. Barrel swelling/shrinking not an issue I've ever heard of except for thin barrels heating up and warping/wandering from hot loads or high volume. Accuracy suffers. Best to zero for cold barrel first shot success with these.
@perposterous1
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you so much for the response Mr. Spomer. That Humidity fact is something i had backwards! I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. Please keep up the great work! I find it very useful as someone who is now getting back into the world hunting.
@fernandogonzalezc4627
3 жыл бұрын
We miss your Podcast!!!
@lloydsims1573
3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see how the elevation (sight angle) and humidity affect trajectory. Good vid.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Noted
@drdes9609
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Ron anesthesiologist here. Air doesn’t become thinner as you go higher in elevation your partial pressure drops. Concentration of oxygen is the same but it’s a pressure difference. This is why you need oxygen above 10,000 feet. 02 % is still 21% but the pressure is so low it don’t diffuse across into your lungs aka alveolar gas equation. Same thing with the bullet pressure is lower so there is less drag on the bullet.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
I read something like this once before but didn't cogitate on it long enough to absorb. So, different effect, same results? But... surely oxygen and nitrogen molecules at altitude eventually thin into nothing, right?
@drdes9609
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors as pressure deceases gas molecules will start to separate as far away from each other in a fixed space but the number is the same the only time the amount changes is at extreme altitude or you exit the atmosphere. It matters in anesthesia for our volatile anesthetics at altitude and 02 blood absorption. For shooting there is less drag but it’s from pressure and temperature not a change of % of gases. Your still the best Ron love your channel.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
@@drdes9609 Your first sentence here about gas molecules separating far from each other is exactly what I think of as thinner air, so I'm not to far off base, right? Thanks for educating me! I'll undoubtedly need more.
@drdes9609
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors separating but not less so it’s not thinner as in less (amount). The best way to think of it is an attitude chamber they pump in just regular air but when they reduce the pressure to to simulate 20-40k feet everyone gets loopy. Oxygen isn’t diffusing across. I’ve experienced this cause I’m actually an Air Force doc and they let us try it out. You were sure on the right track but it’s the pressure change. It’s probably the only subject related to guns I could ever educate you on. Thanks for teaching me.
@donjansen6568
3 жыл бұрын
You can call it less dense or thinner. There is a reason jet aircraft make use of turbines to compress their engine input air at altitude and the lower density of air at high altitudes results in a a significant reduction of drag which causes greater speed and less fuel consumption per mile Bullets are going to act the same with regards to higher altitude equaling less drag.
@ericb.4358
3 жыл бұрын
SOLUTION: Carry a Kestrel 5700 weather meter/ballistic engine loaded with either Applied Ballistics or Hornady 4 DOF ballistics. Get the range and input it not the Kestrel 5700 and BINGO! Now you have your answer B/C the Kestrel has the temperature, air pressure , distance and your rifle and cartridge data. The price of a Kestrel 5700 is in the $500. range but for a $4,000. hunt it is "insurance IF you load it with correct data and practice using it.
@awsomedude12345678
3 жыл бұрын
Now do the same with a low bc hunting bullet? That makes all the differences larger
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, sir. Bullets with low B.C. lose more energy to air drag faster than high B.C. bullets, so drops and deflections are always greater.
@awsomedude12345678
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors thks for replying. I found hunting in Montana that all my tables had to be readjusted since i was shooting at only 2600 fps
@AlaskanBallistics
3 жыл бұрын
Great Video!
@ulfolsson1667
Жыл бұрын
Hi Ron. I watch this video. and i have a question. High altitude low temp and cold cartriges must have an inpact on muzzel velocity and energy and have an inpact on the ballistic
@nj-bz8pv
3 жыл бұрын
you were also shooting at an angle uphill which will cause you to hit high....
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, NJ, but the 10-degrees I was angled isn't worth fooling with at 450 yards. Besides, if I added angled shooting into the video we'd be here all day! I have a blog on it at www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/uphill-downhill-shooting-dilemma-solved?rq=uphill%20downhill%20shooting
@kpday22
3 жыл бұрын
The opening video shows an upward angle shot, which can hit a bit high. Can you do a video on shooting at up and down angles? (both can hit high) Great videos and content.
@johnreacher3756
3 жыл бұрын
I second this suggestion for a topic.
@michaeltellurian825
3 жыл бұрын
This made me think about the ballistics if fired from the space station at a point in the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, which is 236,000,000,000,000,000 km (25,000 light years) away. My calculations are that there would be zero drop, and at 3200 fps, would take 944 trillion light years(to the 12th power) to reach target, with NO drift or loss of speed.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Would solar winds anywhere along the route interfere?
@michaeltellurian825
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors That's the only thing I didn't take into consideration.
@ronaldjohnson1474
10 ай бұрын
Personally, I think taking a shot at 400yds is beyond ethical. It does not exhibit hunting skills.
@SR-wz2iv
3 жыл бұрын
I'd listen you talk about just about anything
@nohandle257
2 жыл бұрын
Weren't you shooting uphill in the video Ron? If you were the amount of gravity acting on the bullet was not what your measured distance would suggest..
@karlantonlillester4884
3 жыл бұрын
Great video 👍👌
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Karl.
@kencreppin2146
3 жыл бұрын
How much does humidity count for? 90 equals higher humidity vs 10 at lower humidity. I know humidity is VERY variable, but it can account for some of the differences.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Not really enough to worry about.
@coreyhaga2623
3 жыл бұрын
My 45/70 doesn’t change enough trajectory at any elevation to make me scared 😎
@jmkhenka
3 жыл бұрын
Ha, come to sweden and hunt capercaillie or grouse. Shot 200-300 meter and the target is at most 10 cm (grouse) or 15cm (capercaile).. and temperature can be anything from -1 C to -40.. better handle that ammo properly as the ammo temperature can shift up to 10% in velocity between outside temperature and "pocket" temperature. Sometimes its so cold and the air gets in layers between cold and less cold air, making it act like water shifting the targets location. Many missed shots due to mirage-like conditions.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Those are some challenging conditions for sure! Glad I crawled under my capercaillie and shotgunned them.
@jmkhenka
3 жыл бұрын
@@RonSpomerOutdoors yeah, early season you can take them in flight but in dec-feb there is 2 meter snow and skiis are required. Hard to shoot and move then. But it's regarded the most demanding form of hunting in Scandinavia, Long Range small targets and tough conditions.. and two days work for couple lbs of meat might not seem worth it but it is :)
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
@@jmkhenka The adventure alone should be worth it.
@johnshields9110
3 жыл бұрын
What lead you to move to a 22 250 AI? Are you shooting more than varmints?
@10dannyp89
3 жыл бұрын
Using a 300y zero for your comparison, would you count on rezeroing when you travelled to high elevation to maintain your zero? If you did not reset your zero you would see a shift that would change your drop numbers as you gain shot distance.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, your trajectory curve would change due to reduced drag. How much is highly variable, so always smart to re-zero. However, your drops and deflection would change, too, so your custom turret might no longer be valid. Gets complicated at long range.
@BuckIt00
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Ron let me pick your brain. I believe you would be the best to ask. With all your great shows and charts. Ok so a scope company makes a scope and with said scope the custom build a turret. In this build they ask for info type bullets velocity a long with hunting elevations and temperature that u will be hunting. Well let's say u only want the one free one and opt out of the 80$ per turret after that. Is there a way to build a multi adjustable turret regardless of hunting conditions. Ill tell u my thinking you tell me yours. Im thinking sea level say 30 degrees. Build on for that setting. So sea level is at 0 and 30 degrees is say around middle temperature consideration that most Temps in hunting season for deer and some other game would be from like 60 to 0 give or take. Then from there just zero your rifle were you plan to hunt when u get there. That should make it so your custom turret can be zeroed in no matter were u are instead of just set up for one elevations and temperature. Now maybe my exact elevations and temperature may need to be tweak as in the built in plus and minus you get with said set turret from manufacturer im sure there is a little play in there. But is my theory sound? Can you zero a custom turret so it can be used anywhere with just a simple re zeroing once u get to your spot. Any insight on this would be much appreciated from you and your followers. Thanks everyone happy hunting.
@josephd7616
3 жыл бұрын
Are you using the online JBM ballistics program? Keep up the great work on your video presentations. 👍
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
I do use that one among others. Thanks.
@dwwest8168
3 жыл бұрын
I hate it when I'm cold and high.
@spazzo5726
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Ron, what twist rate, barrel length and AI degree shoulder do you run in the 22-250? Many thanks, Spaz.
@stevem895
3 жыл бұрын
I have to respecfully disagree here. The total air density is what matters,in part. It depends on 3 factors ; temperature, pressure altitude (combination of elevation above sea level and barometric altitude) and humidity (this one has no significant effect on a rifle bullet trajectory). Good news is that those factors are easy to figure out with a ballistic software. What makes a huge difference in extreme temperature conditions is the actual temperature of the ammunition (powder to be accurate) which affects the muzzle velocity in a significant way. And this one is a lot harder to estimate. I do believe that using the 22-250 does not reflect how much combining all the variables together can drastically affect the trajectory of a bullet in extreme conditions.
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes Steve powder temperature can make a big difference if the powder is temperature sensitive. Not all are. That is a subject for another video, but one well worth addressing.
@GeorgiaBoy1961
3 жыл бұрын
@ Steve M. - Re: "What makes a huge difference in extreme temperature conditions is the actual temperature of the ammunition (powder to be accurate) which affects the muzzle velocity in a significant way. And this one is a lot harder to estimate." There's a guy on You Tube and elsewhere known as "Rex" who's a very proficient long-range shooter. He developed a method for measuring and correcting MV differences due to temperature. Once you have developed a good load for a rifle and know both load and rifle well, begin keeping a data book containing muzzle velocity measurements taken, plus relevant environmental conditions for that day... temp, barometric pressure, altitude, etc. The idea is collect enough data points at a range of temperatures to develop a calibration curve or graph which can be used to predict the difference in MV by temperature. You can take things even further by getting an infra-red thermometer and logging ammo temperature as well. Your typical external ballistics software program does fine telling you what to expect when the outside air temp is - say - 48 degrees F. But it assumes that your ammo is the same temp. What if it isn't? That's where Rex's curve idea comes into play. As he notes, you need trouble yourself with it only at extended ranges, or when an exceptionally precise shot is wanted at any range. Traditional old-school marksmen accounted for this by logging everything in their DOPE books. By starting with a clean bore every time, and the same ammo consistently, and enough days with enough variable conditions, they'd eventually accumulate enough data to predict just about any shot. That's how legendary Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock did it, and it is also the method he taught to hunters in workshops after he retired from the Corps. Of course institutionally, the Army and Marine Corps have a ton of data on how their loads, say in .308, perform under all sorts of conditions - because they've been using their match-grade loads for such a long time and consistently. But most any shooter, civilian included, can duplicate these methods with success if he is meticulous, motivated and diligent.
@mechcavandy986
2 жыл бұрын
Everything about me works better in cool, high altitudes. I’m better for arthritis and shooting.
@Rutfever
3 жыл бұрын
I'm debating which rifle to buy for my young boy to start learning. The most important thing to me at this age is light recoil. Im considering 243, 6.5, or 308. Which do you consider will have less recoil? Considering the stocks are made of the same material. As I know lighter guns have more recoil.
@johnshields9110
3 жыл бұрын
A 243 Win with and 80-87 grain bullet is a good way to go, depending on what game you're hunting. After learning to shoot a real rifle, they might not be bothered moving up to the 100 gr bullet. I shot a 243 as a young teenage boy, and later in college. I got a 6.5 for my daughter (30), and she felt it kicked 'too much'.
@bluegrassbassing3790
3 жыл бұрын
Wouldn’t colder air and a higher elevation cancel out eachother? Just a weird thought
@RonSpomerOutdoors
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, that's what I concluded toward the end of the video. They don't cancel out, but balance out a bit. Not a weird thought at all.
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