I think it’s worth mentioning that Fireknife suits come packaged with the Weapon Support system, which allows you to ignore any or all modifiers to hit. You still have a 50/50 shot to hit, but I’ll take 4+ over 5+ any day.
@justinhaney6180
3 ай бұрын
YOU DONT, YOU BRING A MANTA IN AFTER "FOREGETTING" ITS SUPPORTS IN A 2,500 PT GAME AND CRUSH ALL THE ENEMY MODELS (NOT REALISTIC BUT VERY FUNNY)
Two of the issues with mixing flamers and non flamers for split firing is hoping your dice matches math on a useful damage threshold. Secondly, is a unit with Flamers now wants to be guided. Normally the role of a Flamer unit is unique as they can overwatch a ton (mixed squads has a weaker overwatch) and can functionally be an observer. Two major advantages of a Flamer squad is gone.
@fendelphi
4 ай бұрын
Kauyon allows a lot of power to Observer units though. You still get Sustained Hits 2 and +1BS if you use the "Coordinate to Engage" stratagem. That way, you will still be hitting on 3s(or 2s, for the commander), every 6 to hit is sustained(if in turn 2 and Commander has the Enhancement). So yeah, a bit situational, but possible.
@anniedarkheart5224
4 ай бұрын
@@fendelphi Flamers Observing doesn't benefit from Coordinate to Engage. If you wanted to make an observer squad function more strongly via CoE, then having squads that aren't half Flamers would give you more functionally attractive selections for your CP. This example is not situational.
@fendelphi
4 ай бұрын
@@anniedarkheart5224 Your second issue was that a unit with a mix of flamers and non-flamers "wants to be guided", to increase the damage output of the non-flamers. Which is not the case for Kauyon when acting as the observer. You can get consistent firepower for your non-flamer weapons while split firing that way. 4 flamers, 2 burst cannons and what ever the Commander brings is a lot of potential firepower, with enough to benefit from Kauyon in a meaningful way, and have enough flamers when needed for things like overwatch, or for flexible split firing. Even without the stratagem, your 2 burst cannons are hitting on 4+ and your Commander is hitting on 3+(and you have sustained hits1s or 2s). It does not matter which weapons are shooting at which target, because you do not suffer a penalty to BS when splitting your fire as an Observer, and the primary role of the unit is to reduce the number of chaff infantry on the board. You will only be split firing to avoid overkills, or because you need to reduce the numbers of multiple squads for other events to trigger(for instance, Kroot rules). The issue with pure flamer units, is the low range and low average damage in anything other than Retaliation Cadre. They have very limited application.
@anniedarkheart5224
4 ай бұрын
@@fendelphi If you wanted to make an observer squad function more strongly via CoE, then having squads that aren't half Flamers would give you more functionally attractive selections for your CP.
@fendelphi
4 ай бұрын
@@anniedarkheart5224 You are still missing the point. It is not about wanting to do a specific thing. It is about having options and the flexibility to act when a situation calls for it, but also being potent enough to succesfully accomplish your main objective(and not just leave both targets standing). Split firing is not something you should strive to achieve in every situation. You want the option to do it effectively when needed, but going all Flamers limits your engagement range and has overall less killing potential against a single target, while going all Burst Cannons(to utilize BS buffs, sustained/lethal) makes for very swingy split fire when not spending the CP(BS 4+/5+ for the squad, cover benefits). So if you want effctive split fire options, the units need to be outfitted accordingly. The right mix allows for enough efficient damage to deal with a main target(either as Observer or Guided) and, if needed, good options for consistent damage to deal with a secondary target. In Kauyon, the unit has the option to act as a forward observer, increase the damage output against the main target by using the stratagem or being Guided, and can do so without diminishing your damage potential against a secondary target. It is also a fairly strong overwatch combo. While the flamers provide a lot of consistency, the non-flamer weaponry provides a bigger punch per succesful hit(being S5 or better), with Kauyon making them double in effectiveness(CIB and Missile Pods provides decent value against T5+ and W2 models). This makes the unit overall more effective against a variety of targets, in various situations, while still fully capable of dealing with its main objective.
@TauPathfinder334
4 ай бұрын
Great video I really liked it me personally I still hate split firing
@CommanderNearsight
4 ай бұрын
That's valid
@Giby86
4 ай бұрын
Or, just play Kauyon and Coordinate to Engage. Get the bonus but not the penalty.
@CommanderNearsight
4 ай бұрын
Play smarter not harder
@rathstar
4 ай бұрын
Fireknifes are one of the easiest to split fire because theu have inbuilt rerolls. I would not guide them and try to attack unwounded units then each target yoy shoot it hit with a 75% hit rate. However as you said the low number of shots does not help split firing. As well as fireknifes getting rerolls, using the stratagem in mont'ka to grant rerolls against a unit thag kikls a tau unit will put a few units that we can not guide and therefore not suffer the penalty of split firing whike guiding. In the end we shouldn't split fire with the current rules unless absolutely necessary.
@CommanderNearsight
4 ай бұрын
Yeah I like your thoughts on it all. And sadly must concede that split firing should not be the game plan for this edition
@calumdeighton
4 ай бұрын
The Commander & Crisis teams is an interesting idea. I'm not quite sold, because my thinking is. Starscythe unit with (whatever) commander drops in and attacks 2 units of guardsman. Crisis suits focus on one unit while commander softens up the other unit so another Tau team destroys whats left. Otherwise. Splitting fire seems like a real bad idea.
@CommanderNearsight
4 ай бұрын
Fair point
@fendelphi
4 ай бұрын
Always remember that 90% of the time, Tau units work in pairs. So when one unit is dropping in, it will either be guided or guide for someone else, and they both shoot at the main target. Secondary targets are to minimize overkill, and can assist the next pair that is going to shoot. Example: You have a unit of Stealth Suits(2 Burst cannons within range of main target) that spot for a Starscythe unit(+commander). The player does a bit of quick math and can see that they only need the commander's weapons and a few of the Starscythe weapons to kill the unit on average rolls, allowing the rest to target something else(avoiding overkill). In case you roll lower than expected, you still have the shots of the Stealth Suit to finish the job. If the Starscythe unit does succeed in destroying the main target, the Stealth Suits can then target the secondary target instead, weakening it further(and potentially destroying it).
@darrenthao2422
4 ай бұрын
I've been loving split fire stormsurge in montka. Lethals work in spitfire, so with its multiple low strength, high volume weapons that wound on 5's or 6's, when you can access hit rerolls against a target through "pin point counter offensive" without being guided, the damage curve flattens out considerably when you fish for leathals in the hit roll.
@CommanderNearsight
4 ай бұрын
Smart
@TheNewVivec
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for this I hadn’t even considered this.
@sideswipe2615
4 ай бұрын
It’s not a perfect solution, but sometimes, just don’t guide your units. Sure, the improved BS is nice, but if you NEED to split fire, then keeping both sides of things 50/50 works sometimes.
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