More videos explaining other parts of geometry too!
@Cyclingmasterseller
4 жыл бұрын
Surprisingly, the stem length is also vitally important and it was not mentioned. Hmm. I ride a 55cm Pinarello Dogma frame with obviously an extremely short reach measurement (I like short, instant, left and right turning which makes it nice for bursting out of a paceline or dropping off the lead quickly) and run a 90mm Cinelli stem -- any longer and the Dog will wobble at high speed like a drunken sailor. And so goes bike geometry, this topic is a great one and could go on forever. Thanks for the great ditty!
@michaelalbany
4 жыл бұрын
I love the science of geometry in bicycles. Had I known that when I was in High School I would have done better in class! More videos please!
@matyourin
4 жыл бұрын
It would have helped to See a shot of both bikes lined up in Front of each other... Interesting topic any way
@vinnyjhawer7847
3 жыл бұрын
BTW, Ollie has been a great addition to the team. Love his video and his crazy personality.
@jfdavenport
4 жыл бұрын
Years ago I went on a 2 week cycle tour on my tourer. When I got back I went for a ride on my racing bike and it was so twitchy for the first few minutes, I was all over the shop! What a difference geometry makes.
@jcsrst
4 жыл бұрын
I have an endurance bike: long trail and a race bike; short trail. The handling is VERY different! Excellent job of illustrating those differences!
@mortenreippuertknudsen3576
4 жыл бұрын
short trail bikes: we are talinking 30-35mm. It can be a very useful trick on randoneur bike as the shot trail tends to mute the steering when riding with a front load like a rando bag. This is also to be considered for gravelbikes and does further complicate the idea of havinga gravel bike designed for 40mm 700 and putting on 25mm 700c for road rideing
@albr4
4 жыл бұрын
it's helped me a lot because I couldn't tell if it was just the low handlebars on my aero road bike, or the skinny tyres meaning I couldn't ride no hands.
@devinfahada4880
3 жыл бұрын
@@mortenreippuertknudsen3576 english please.. I need further information
@nwimpney
3 жыл бұрын
@@devinfahada4880 I think he's saying that using less trail can be useful on bikes which have a load on the front (front bags ahead of the steering axis, etc) because in those cases the angular momentum has a similar stabilizing effect. With a long trail bike, with front bags, it can feel like steering a freight train, so you make a twitchier bike and it will feel normal when its loaded up.
@miguelgonzalezvaz5552
4 жыл бұрын
Such an interesting and forgotten topic. Please more videos on other geometry measures! 👍
@abedfo88
4 жыл бұрын
This is really helpful. My old boardman Alu bike is incredibly stable you can ride uphill no hands and stuff. My ribble is incredibly difficult on any terrain to ride no handed, makes eating whilst riding so hard.
@simongeeves9662
4 жыл бұрын
Here's Ollie opening a can of worms (label on can, bike geometry).... Great video, keep the series rolling.
@sabberi
4 жыл бұрын
I get and mostly appreciate GCN's production style of warmly blanketing bite-size information with pretty B-roll, background music, and charismatic positivity. But please more and deeper dives to interesting themes like bike geometry. People like Tom, and most of the presenters surely have enough insightful knowledge to make a whole series on geometry alone
@gcntech
4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Pythonesque, we'll see what else we can do - what specifically would you like to know?
@vinnyjhawer7847
3 жыл бұрын
Whoa, that was very interesting. Had no idea the difference trail really makes on a bikes handling. Food for thought.
@StanislavGrabchev
4 жыл бұрын
Just changed my old alu 15y frame, to a new era carbon frame. Amazed is not enough to say how much difference there is in handling going downhill 50+kph hour. I thought that there would be a change, but to me it is a game changer
@neil7769
4 жыл бұрын
As a poor descender I've always been interested in the relationship between trail and handling on technical descents. I've come to the conclusion that the "standard" trail of 55-60mm is actually best for this. Shorter trail feels frighteningly unstable, longer trail seems to reduce confidence in sharp bends. Front-end Stiffness is also really important
@bicyclist2
4 жыл бұрын
Stem length and fork rake also contribute greatly to handling. This should be the subject of a video. Thanks.
@Hexsense
4 жыл бұрын
Stem length -> not as much as trail value. Fork rake -> already included in trail value. 71.2deg head tube angle+55mm fork rake and 73deg head tube angle+45mm fork rake both result in trail=58mm and will handle very similarly. Fork rake alone doesn't tell how it'll handling without head tube angle and wheel (and tire) size. Which, from three factors combined compute trail value anyway.
@justinkimber9456
4 жыл бұрын
Finally. Geometry (beyond stack and reach) has been ignored by the average punter for so long now, when it used to be such a commonly understood concept as recently as 10-12 years ago. Great to see someone re-educating people on this front.
@danielbum912
4 жыл бұрын
Love the geeky stuff, by far my favourite videos!! Thanks
@davidwilson917
4 жыл бұрын
I love all of Ollie’s more scientific content. Keep it up, Ollie and GCN!
@thiagobartolo
4 жыл бұрын
I could watch this type of video for hours! please explore more aspects of geometry on bike frames!
@faithinverity8523
4 жыл бұрын
Jan Heine, the publisher of Bicycle Quarterly, studied trail and published his findings around 2007. Kogswell Cycles supplied him with three forks of varying offset and he test all three at once. He would be a great person to interview. His understanding of geometry is well considered.
@benjaminnorland2110
4 жыл бұрын
Check out the Geometry Flavor Wheel over at PathLessPedaled, awesome breakdown and explanation of trail, chainstay length etc.
@benjaminnorland2110
4 жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/zW16l4yeqIxqY3o
@davidbierbaum4881
4 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminnorland2110 I was about to mention the tasty wheel of bike geometry myself.
@GeekonaBike
4 жыл бұрын
I've always preferred a twitchy bike, but the 'Speed Wobble' comment hit home. In the last RR I did I caught a speed wobble right out of the neutral zone that turned my RR into a 60mi ITT.
@ElonMuckX
4 жыл бұрын
You need to go back and do a downhill test on these two bikes.
@Likelybiking
4 жыл бұрын
Yes! More geometry videos would be awesome!
@dmcg2511
4 жыл бұрын
Andrew Felix agreed
@southern_leyte8230
4 жыл бұрын
Yip, I feel I have experienced this with the two bikes I own.... The one is too twitchy and for me feels unstable, while the other handles to me feels far more stable, I will measure the trail on both bikes. Thanks For this info.
@hellopsp180
4 жыл бұрын
So in Summary @Ollie What your saying is for a flat straight Time Trial I should get a fork with Longer trail But for Alley Cat races in the city, I should get a shorter trail fork
@KLottGolf
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly!
@Kim_Miller
4 жыл бұрын
It's not only a matter of the fork but also the steering head angle. That means a different frame.
@Hexsense
4 жыл бұрын
Watch out a bit when saying short and long. Some people can be confuse. Fork that'll create long trail have low offset (low rake). Then fork that'll create short trail have high offset (high rake). This can blow some people's mind because fork with high offset increase wheelbase length, but it reduce trail and make bike more agile.
@hokiefyd
4 жыл бұрын
GCN Tech: I think you meant to say, in your explanation at 1:45, that trail is how far *behind* the steering axis the contact point of the tyre is. The tire's contact patch with the road is *behind* the imaginary line where the steering axis intersects the road. Great video, and great topic!
@allenshulman
4 жыл бұрын
This is a great explanation of what seemed like voodoo before. More like this?
@geoffdelperdog8838
4 жыл бұрын
This was a fantastic video. I would love to watch a series on geometry to help cyclists identify what to look for in geometry charts when selecting bikes. What geometry for what conditions, needs or preferences. Thanks team!
@arifazhari7598
4 жыл бұрын
This is one of my most favourite topic of bike. And why most modern gravel bike have multiple wheel size compatibly. When the bike has say clearance for 700cx40 mm the trail is around 69 mm but when you switch it to say 700x28 mm or 650b x 48 mm the trail went Round 64 to 66 mm not much but it will Make the bike felt more different when you switch tyre or wheel size. Just like on the geek edition 700c vs 650b wheel on this channel. Keep up the great content GCN.
@janwillemkuilenburg7561
4 жыл бұрын
Very much appreciated!. Could you do a couple more of these, like for example the differences in ride qualities between ‘double diamond classic geometry’ versus ‘sloped top tube’ geometry? Or is that just to limit the amount of different frame sizes during production?
@albr4
4 жыл бұрын
very good question, some people claim the longer seat post on a sloped top tube bike creates a more comfortable ride whereas some people say that sloped top tube bikes are stiffer, as well as horizontal top tube frames. Personally comfort doesn't mean anything to me and I much prefer the look of horizontal top tube bikes with dropped seatstays like TT bikes.
@richardmiller3808
4 жыл бұрын
On the "sloped tube" geometry "Giant's" contribution to cycling world. I think it basically allowed for a better or easier fit among all riders. Using the S, M, L frame standard you could easily fit a rider by using different length of components, such as bar width, crank arm length, stem length, and so on.
@chrstphrrb1449
4 жыл бұрын
Gosh darn those bikes look amaaaaaazing
@darrengreen7906
4 жыл бұрын
8:15 Mr Magoo approved straight line... xD
@grzelazka1
2 жыл бұрын
It would be so great to have some links and files in the description to all your videos whenever it makes sense. Like a geometry chart with names for the specific lengths. Or in diy disc wheel the dimensions of the plastic and cut outs, glue. It would make learning much better after watching a video. Thanks!
@kedarkulkarni3030
4 жыл бұрын
Great video...Ollie was really serious this time...more videos on geometry specifically explaining different parts would be great
@trainiax
3 жыл бұрын
A fascinating discussion! When I got my first drop-bar bike last year (a Devinci Hatchet gravel bike) I couldn't help but notice that it felt sluggish in sharper, slow-speed maneuvers but very stable at high speeds (to the extent that I was sometimes shocked at the speeds I reached on descents). Turns out the trail is almost the same as the high value in this test.
@thiagobartolo
4 жыл бұрын
Please do a video on stem size and handlebar width effect on handling and chainstay length/wheel base also!
@gregsus4536
4 жыл бұрын
GCN video on stem length. Enjoy. kzitem.info/news/bejne/o2xvr5OrmquWgHY
@arselihp
4 жыл бұрын
Loved this. I'd watch anything you did with this formula--pick a characteristic, isolate it with two extreme examples, and try to explain what the difference feels like. Stem length (short TT & long stem vs. opposite), for example.
@KenSmith-bv4si
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Ollie , Ken here . cool video . I went back and checked " trail" of my new bike , (Specialized Tarmac Pro with Sram shifting with hydraulic disc brakes 2020) , since getting my new bike when I'm going in a straight line the bike is so stable compared to my old bike and around the turns at speed are awesome . At first it thought it had more to do with the 50mm deep wheels and then I watch this video , again TankX Ollie .
@ellwoodwolf
4 жыл бұрын
the geometry of a bike tells a lot - i went from a redline 26pl ( 26inch bmx) to a salsa journeyman flat bar large frame - i chose a flat bar large frame after sitting on a drop bar and realizing the geometry was completely different and went and looked at the numbers, and got it right based on what i knew i liked. it felt sketchy buying a bike online based on the numbers, but it worked.
@petinka721
4 жыл бұрын
Ollie is as the bigger trail. Always stable always do high level of videos!
@gmc3578
4 жыл бұрын
while more trail makes the bike more stable from the standpoint of the bike/wheels encountering external forces.... the converse is that more trail makes the bike more sensitive to the riders handlebar inputs... balancing those two factors makes for the desired feel which can be highly personal preference!
@lennyharp
4 жыл бұрын
A great study of the aspects of frame design that affect handling. I learned to build frames by reading and practicing ideas. The most help I got was several articles in the mountain bike design field written by Scott Nicol of Ibis Bikes I believe.
@jedisdad2265
4 жыл бұрын
One of the best GCN Tech videos!
@gcntech
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, Tracy.
@jedisdad2265
4 жыл бұрын
GCN Tech never miss an episode. Although due to work a times it may be a binge of GCN on Saturday
@shyamfootprints972
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Please make another one that uses the stack to reach ratio and it’s impact on speed keeping all other things equal.
@Tuslareb
4 жыл бұрын
I love this kind of content. I really learned something here. Thanks!
@nadgeemark
4 жыл бұрын
Great presentation Ollie. As 60 year old rider I was just trying to decide whether my next bike will be have race or endurance geometry. Endurance it is 👍🏼
@JogBird
4 жыл бұрын
the best way to understand the importance of trail is to ride a brompton 😁
@CGB65
4 жыл бұрын
No doubt about it. GCN, do a Brompton no hands demo.
@ianiscaratti4924
4 жыл бұрын
trail and wheelbase are not the same
@arne_mh
4 жыл бұрын
@@ianiscaratti4924 that's not what they are saying, the brompton practically has a negative trail
@act3life592
4 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly . . . could never do no hands on mine . . .
@andreasantorum77
4 жыл бұрын
AWESOME vid guys!! thanks, more of this please!
@nabilioustheriffer4862
4 жыл бұрын
very Egg-sperimental info! Thank you GCN :D
@danielblanche9907
4 жыл бұрын
Living in Eastern Canada (super flat) half of the year and in south of France (super hilly) the other half, I can tell you trail makes a huge difference in hairpin downhills. You need to fight with the bike - as opposed to the bike almost leading you - with a longer trail bike in handling lacets .
@garymiller1216
4 жыл бұрын
Great insight to how geometry effects the bike. Best one liner goes to Tom when talking about choosing a bike, at 1400. Try and build a frame of reference, That's easy for him as a bike builder 😂👍
@wasupwitdat1mofiki94
4 жыл бұрын
Very informative. The bike I own now rides differently than any other bike I've ever owned, for example I find it very difficult to ride without hands on the bar, I am actually scared to let go even to unzip my jacket because the bike will lose it's line very quikly. I thought something was wrong with this frame to be honest. I paid $8K for this bike so it is a dilemma I am stuck with. But I will investigate the possibility of changing the fork to change the trail.
@rhamarn.6586
4 жыл бұрын
great content! thanks!
@gearmonkey
4 жыл бұрын
This video was great! Something that I'd find really helpful along these lines would be some video(s) on how to measure the geometry of a bike yourself. I have a couple bikes that I've bought second hand and I'd love to better understand how their ride feel relates to the geometry of other bikes.
@justinkimber9456
4 жыл бұрын
Unless your bike predates the internet you should be able to get hold of geometry charts for most bikes fairly easily
@gearmonkey
4 жыл бұрын
@@justinkimber9456 key word there is most, I have tried.
@chrisl.6158
4 жыл бұрын
Wow. Didn't expect this video to be THAT helpful! Thanks, GCN. I'm actually quite good at riding no handed. But after my last year's accidents I lost a bit confidence in doing things like that. Had a look at my Canyon's specs -> very long trail. So I'll definitely up my no handed cycling game next season. :-)
@martinaxe6390
4 жыл бұрын
Super helpful. I always wondered why my Fuji is difficult to ride without hands, and it feels very twitchy on the rollers. I'm going to look up the geometry now, but I bet I know the answer
@chrishey6891
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting that in car/kart racing geometry the same thing is know as castor, so positive and negative can affect the setup in exactly the same way. Always think of it like a shopping trolley, easy to steer, but unstable :-)
@Hardi26
4 жыл бұрын
When a tall person pats your head and calls you shorty, then it's because appreciation and envy, because the trail on small frame that the short person rides is much longer and thus he can ride fast much easier. So many reason why being short is better than too tall. :D
@nigelcrane5309
4 жыл бұрын
I’m just happy to get on my bike and ride!!
@steveco1800
4 жыл бұрын
Went from a CX bike with steeper head angle and more trail to a gravel bike with slacker head angle and less trail. Only ridden on road so far for winter, but preferred the CX bike on the road. Can imagine less trail will be better offroad on the gravel bike to aid quickly adjusting line choice on trails.
@torstenschenkel1894
4 жыл бұрын
With the same fork and wheel diameter, the steeper head angle would give a shorter trail and vice versa. Typically a gravel bike would have longer trail than the CX bike.
@JonFairhurst
4 жыл бұрын
Oh no!!! You gave us trail numbers, but no information on head tube angle and rake. I can increase trail by increasing the head tube angle or rake and these two approaches give very different results. Please let us know the numbers for the test. Thanks!
@mortenreippuertknudsen3576
4 жыл бұрын
trail is a combinakion of head tube angle, fork lengt, fork rake and tyre diameter - for this test rake, lenght and headtube angle is irrelevant. BB drop is relevant though.
@JonFairhurst
4 жыл бұрын
In my experience, increasing trail with a steep head tube and shortening rake is quick and linear. Increasing trail by slackening head tube and going with long rake is quite different. It’s more stable when straight but less stable at high steering angles. It’s not just the trail; it’s how you create the trail.
@dyzoly
4 жыл бұрын
The internet needed this video, thank you!
@jocelynmillar6953
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome stuff Ollie. Sorry word explaination doesnt work for me and maybe others so please drawings and side by side comparisons would be cool.... Plus now with this info I will have to convince my hubby that i need another bike.... Thank you GCN 😋👍😁
@ignacionava8699
4 жыл бұрын
wow great video, it'd be interesting on the next time you do a comparison video (road, gravel, cyclocross, tourer, time trial, cross country, (and please include track) to include the difference in trail and other geometry to understand how each discipline benefits from different characteristics! Not just the tire width and gears lol. awesome content!
@TheSnoringGamer
4 жыл бұрын
ah this explains why one of my bikes isn't able to be pushed along by the seat, as the wheel just spins round which I always found super annoying. I'm guessing it must have very short trail. I have also felt that the steering feels incredibly direct compared to some other bikes.
@krisjaynav
4 жыл бұрын
it' crazy how much an inch can make such a huge difference. I got hit by an electric scooterist in the city and bent back the rake my steel forks. I tried cold bending them into place; nontheless, the handling has been compromised-much twitchier.
@Hypersonicbiker
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video. Geometrie is everything. Have a good work, GCN.
@nedbuchman6546
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Very informative and presented in a very creative and interesting way (love the different tests). Please produce more videos explaining how the various components of geometry effect bike handling and rider experience.
@arifazhari7598
4 жыл бұрын
Hi GCN , could you please make Q&A videos on GCN tech channel with the bicycle academy ?. Please, please, please, we would like have some of our unanswered questions in bike geometry . Like fiting a smaller bike that has a trail 70 mm with a 100 to 110 mm stem .
@backyardmachinist
4 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! I hope this is the first of many videos on bicycle geometry.
@georgehugh3455
4 жыл бұрын
Great subject and testing, Ollie...helped immensely by TBA's two bikes. Could have donned your Tweed Teaching Jacket and used that whiteboard to draw up the differences.
@chrisbaum998
4 жыл бұрын
You blinded me with science!! Great info and video Olie!!
@brauljo
4 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see the egg test done on bikes that have no toe overlap. The great thing about trail is that you can slacken the headtube a bunch and have lots of fork rake to keep the trail from becoming too great, equaling no toe overlap. I don't get why all road bikes aren't like this, weight? Plus longer bikes would have shorter stems, adding more responsiveness to the steering.
@gnarlywaves2992
4 жыл бұрын
please post more videos on bike geometry!
@santoshsubudhi9707
4 жыл бұрын
Those bikes look so beautiful and classy.
@bobmarteal
4 жыл бұрын
Great tests to show the differences and way to demystify the words. Curious to get Albert's take on it though.
@remcovanegmond8671
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video and explanation of trail. However, looking at geometry charts usually displayed on websites of bike-builders, de trail is rarely indicated. They often do indicate the "head tube angle". So it might useful make a video about that as well (y)
@caillou450
4 жыл бұрын
What would help / would have helped is to overlay the design of both frames to see the differences in construction, angles, lengths, etc. Next time ? ;-) At the end however, although surprised that millimeters can have such an impact on handling, I understand what makes my Giant TCR feel so different from my old Trek. Thx guys for another great informative clip.
@vedadrokkor
4 жыл бұрын
Can you please do a topic about all bikes having the same wheel base. How is that normal for a 160cm tall and 200cm tall person to have the same wheelbase bike???!!! Being 194cm tall I find that very strange.
@arifazhari7598
4 жыл бұрын
Actually it comes to seat tube angle and head tube angle when the bike has the same wheel base but has different size and fit different height rider. There's an actual tool online that you can use to play around the geometry. By changing some value on the geometry chart
@tecnociclista5342
4 жыл бұрын
Really? I am pretty sure that in all geometry charts I have ever looked at wheelbase in increasing with frame size...
@arifazhari7598
4 жыл бұрын
@@tecnociclista5342 yes, incrementally. Like 10 to 15 mm mostly on front center. The distance from your bb to the wheel axle.
@andreanetto69
2 жыл бұрын
Now I hope Olly will do a video about stack and reach and how they work on aero-endurance-gravel-… bikes😅 I need it to buy my new bike!
@jpmartin100
4 жыл бұрын
Lots of geometry suggestions below. Here's one more in the GCN does science realm: I would be very interested in knowing the actual loss in wattage due to bad tarmac surface. We know there is a huge difference between perfectly smooth tarmac and a cobbled street... How about everything in between ?
@tnsdulay
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, this was really helpful. More geometry explainers, please!
@richardmiller3808
4 жыл бұрын
All things being considered when it comes to bikes and handling you have to look at everything over all. Using the off the shelf geometry which you will find on many manufactures with only slight differences. You as a consumer must really look at what is best suited for your type of riding you will be doing. Maybe that's why I have so many bikes? LOL Could be! or I just like to buy bikes. N+1 you can never go wrong.
@jpjipperwong
4 жыл бұрын
Can you guys make a GCN Science channel? Ollie's Videos like this with bike engineering and other videos like sports science and nutrition are some of my favourite content 😂
@ProvidenceProducts
Жыл бұрын
Please include information on the geometry for the best time trial bike that would travel in a straight line for maximum time trial speed on a flat straight out and buy course. I’ve noticed how hard it is to go in a straight line time trailing when you’re applying maximum force, especially towards the end of the time trial When you’re exhausted. I typically weave a lot.
@kimrice394
4 жыл бұрын
Great video! Tom? The builder was too smart at geo for the average Joe. When a guy says. “There is no one answer.” I know I’m talking to a true craftsman of his/her trade. The visual tests were great at explaining Trail.
@johnstoneweetabix
4 жыл бұрын
in the video, ollie mentions that trail is 'how far in front of the steering axis the contact point of your tyre is' - but in the diagram, it's *behind* the steering axis. is the diagram right, or is ollie? and is there such a thing as negative trail as a result?
@shaunslate
4 жыл бұрын
Good point! That statement was all backwards, which was a shame because Ollie is usually so precise. Trail is in fact the distance that the contact patch "trails" behind the steering axis. (Hence the name, eh!?) I absolutely love this channel but to get this wrong at the start of a video attempting to explain such a misunderstood topic was an epic fail. The rest of it was pretty good. I may be wrong but I don't think negative trail can ever be functionally stable.... think trying to push a piece of string as opposed to trailing a piece of string.
@domdog111
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, great great video. Makes it so clear and explains so much of what I've experienced. I am now wondering how this plays with wheel base?
@leeoien3645
4 жыл бұрын
Excellent job on this one GCN!
@albr4
4 жыл бұрын
so that explains why on my argon 18 E80 TT frameset it's so difficult to ride no hands and track standing, not to mention the times I've almost fallen off at low speeds at traffic lights. Compared to when I'm on my city singlespeed I can ride no hands so easily that I can even ride up quite steep hills no hands to embarrass the other riders as I drop them up the hill.
@Hexsense
4 жыл бұрын
Size 52 and smaller is where the difference in trail between models and brands starts to show. Because they don't want high amount of toe overlap on small sizes so the head tube angle and/or fork offset need to be change. Some brands treat small riders nicely by developing small size specific fork with higher offset to counteract the slack head tube angle. Resulting in small size have same/similar trail value to larger sizes. Most notable examples are Cannondale CAAD13 and new SS Evo (two forks, size 48-63 all have the same trail=58), newer Cervelo (three forks), Specialized (two forks, but trail is not so consistent). Then there are lazier brands (Giant, Canyon, and many other) who use single fork offset for every sizes despite deviate their head tube angle for small sizes. Look at Giant TCR, size XS has trail=71. S' trail=63, M larger are 58: any review of how TCR handle in size M does not apply to TCR size S and XS at all.
@co7013
4 жыл бұрын
I would have likes to know what exactly where the 'tweeks' on steering tube angle and top tube length that where made to have these bikes end up with the same wheelbase. Not explaining that is a strange omission. I assume the bike with the longer trail has a slacker steering angle and a shorter top tube.. I never really understood what exactly it is that makes a bike more stable: longer trail, slacker steering angle, longer wheelbase, top tube length, lengt of the stem... Or how these (and other) factors interrelate.
@gcntech
4 жыл бұрын
The Top tube would have been made shorter and the headtube angle slackened to increasethe trail.
@DanuelNuel
4 жыл бұрын
Damn! That's really good looking bike! I'm sucker for nice classic round steal tubes.
@alanmony1582
4 жыл бұрын
Tom knows his stuff. In my short lived career as a frame builder I tried to explain trail with a comparison to trucks and "trailers" ( no coincidence there ). Where the trailer ball/hitch is the head tube steering angle, in this case 90* straight down to the ground, and the "trail" is the distance back to the centerline of the axle. The shorter this distance the easier it is to maneuver on a city street, the longer the trail is it takes much more room to complete a turn. Make sense?
@stephensaines7100
4 жыл бұрын
[n the motorcycle industry, caster angle is synonymous with what would be called the head angle in the bicycle industry. Sometimes in the bicycle industry, the term caster angle is used to describe the arctangent of the trail divided by the wheel radius. To avoid confusion, BikeCAD does not use the term caster angle. However, for those that are interested in this value, BikeCAD does display a dimension called the arctan(trail/wheel radius), (known by some as caster angle). This dimension is shown above.] www.bikecad.ca/arctan_trail_by_wheel_radius Illustration and depiction at link.
@danielalford4964
4 жыл бұрын
Could you do a video on what contributes to speed wobble? I have a beautiful titanium bike that was left in the shed for years due to one-too-many speed-wobble incidents when descending. I very nearly sold it, but before I did, I changed the stem and hey presto! No more wobble!
@shaunslate
4 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love this channel so in the interests of helping people grasp the principle of trail, I have to point out that that statement, written on screen at the start, was all backwards, which was a shame because Ollie is usually so precise. Trail is in fact the distance that the contact patch "trails" BEHIND the steering axis..... Not the other way around! (Hence the name, eh!?) As I say, I'm a huge fan and so I don't want to be seen as trolling in any way but to get this wrong at the start of a video attempting to explain such a misunderstood topic was such a shame. The rest of it was pretty good.... When emphasising the influence of trail, someone once said, think of going down from a large trail right through to a negative tral (which you could technically build but would be impossible/near impossible to ride).... it would be like going from trying to pull a piece of string where you wanted it to go, to trying to push it where you wanted it to go!
@Kippcom
4 жыл бұрын
Gotta love Olli
@pmckeown38
4 жыл бұрын
Be interesting to look at cyclo cross, and the variations in mt bikes
@jandqu
4 жыл бұрын
I'm curious about the Paris Roubaix argument vs high speed descents. My naive thinking here is that on cobbles you don't want to be bounced around too much, so the more stable (i.e., longer wheelbase) the better. In the video the point being made seems to be that you'd want stability for fast cornering as well. So we'd end up with the same bike. What am I missing?
@aacc8466
4 жыл бұрын
I have ridden both short and long trail bikes. The sorter trail bikes on descents feels smooth and cornering is done with confidence. The longer trail bike on a descent also feels smooth but on cornering it feels like you are trying to turn a semi truck and does not give you confidence that you can corner into the next bend with ease.
@jandqu
4 жыл бұрын
@@aacc8466 Thanks. That makes more sense to me but somehow contradicts what I heard in the video.
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