The secret to our "garage" sound? $85,000 worth of equipment, duh!
@seanhealey2007
5 жыл бұрын
Right!?! It’s never simple or cheap
@mortonschmorton5249
5 жыл бұрын
seanhealey2007 a good sounding kit and drummer is 97% of it. The other 3 percent can be filled by 57s and cheap plugins if you’re crafty enough.
@bookerswhiskey3509
5 жыл бұрын
Zepsett just hit em’ wit the hein
@turdferguson9190
5 жыл бұрын
They made their first record with a 100 dollar record and mics from radio shack. Just sayin...
@brandonandalexander
5 жыл бұрын
@@mortonschmorton5249 the truth my brother, a b-52 definitely doesn't hurt either and is cheap as balls
@JakelikejakefromSF4936
5 жыл бұрын
Patrick Carney looks like he'd have constant coffee breath.
@kri8beats778
4 жыл бұрын
Coffee and weed
@Praxidas
3 жыл бұрын
@@kri8beats778 Contradictory
@careyott
3 жыл бұрын
@@Praxidas exactly
@queenhenryviii
2 жыл бұрын
@@Praxidas complimentary*
@jessieplaysmusic8530
2 жыл бұрын
@@Praxidas you’re smoking the wrong kind then. Ahah
@timesink8947
6 жыл бұрын
Really nice to hear the engineer discuss the specific signal chain of each microphone. Normally people just namedrop a few compressors, a few EQs, and stay real vague. By being specific, he gives us a chance to learn a bit from him.
@norwegiansniper9713
6 жыл бұрын
That´s because good engineers want people to develop their own sound and build a song from what they think sounds good not what some guy said on youtube.
@danielallan5058
6 жыл бұрын
Would you want that sound for your drums tho???...to me it sounds like the outboard gating coupled with the use of reverb to bring back what the gate took away seems like shooting yourself in foot!..I'm being honest I don't think the black keys albums we all know and love where recorded like that..magic potion didn't sound that way!
@plan4studios977
6 жыл бұрын
There's no such thing as secrets anymore unfortunately with youtube !
@fergadelics
6 жыл бұрын
Timesink sharing is not caring about secret sauce and it lifts all sides. In the end it’s the song
@freepoco2
5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the details of this video help me specifically avoid any of this equipment and puts a microscope to patrick carney's drumming isolated so I know how not to tune/play/be near drums.
@nathandrum47
3 жыл бұрын
That snare isolation to hi-hat bleed is incredible. I want to look into that expander. Love the snare sound. Super focused and phat without too much low end information.
@skyhook7347
Жыл бұрын
Nate.. my brother in christ; it sounded like dog shit....
@Madrrrrrrrrrrr
11 ай бұрын
@@skyhook7347 i agree. Like you hit tape to hard. Yuck. So flat.
@alanduncan1980
8 ай бұрын
This guy sounds like a beginner drummer. Very bad feel and lacks groove.
@fishbonesinc
5 жыл бұрын
Video like this is like a summoning circle for accredited drum science PhD's who feel the need to flex how their a better drummer and sound engineer in one vessel sculpted by the gods themselves.
@Sunkenballs12
3 жыл бұрын
Consider that whats happening here is just so bad that average drummers and engineers can criticize it and be totally qualified to do so.
@desertrainfrog1691
2 жыл бұрын
@@Sunkenballs12 What successful band would those average drummers/engineers be a part of?
@Sunkenballs12
Ай бұрын
@@desertrainfrog1691"yOu DoNt kNoW aNyThInG YoU NoT FaMoUs drrrrrrr"
@benboone007
6 жыл бұрын
Patrick is such an inspiration to all those garbage garage drummers out there, you still have a chance to make it big even if you don't know what a steady bpm is
@Yourveryowncarrot
5 жыл бұрын
@MorbidManMusic His drumming has more character and style than most drummers out there today, what's your problem?
@Steaminlidz
5 жыл бұрын
6 Grammy’s. How many have you got?
@austincox1709
5 жыл бұрын
top 10 anime deaths yeah he’s not great though. his drums do sound nice
@charlestwisted9890
5 жыл бұрын
It’s always surprising to hear tempo being compared to straight BPM. Feel matters. If it didn’t, why have a drummer, when a drum machine is literally perfect?
@Christopher-md7tf
4 жыл бұрын
Always funny how fanboys resort to "feel" and "character" when they get butt-hurt because somebody pointed out that their idol is just not that great of a player. Technical ability and feel/groove/character are not mutually exclusive. And having terrible timing does not automatically give you "good feel".
@evanmatthiesen7478
6 жыл бұрын
keep in mind when judging a drum sound- its about how they relate to a mix. This is how to get a dry, saturated, tight drum sound with character, not how to get a natural drum sound.
@IsurusDrums
5 жыл бұрын
Well I guess any drum sound is usable in a certain context and I also suppose that drum beats that are poorly played are usable but to me this video is a master class in what sounds bad both in terms of production and technique. Just my personal opinion.
@TheUltimater72
5 жыл бұрын
Did you really use both “dry” and “saturated” to describe something
@simonperry8569
3 жыл бұрын
@@IsurusDrums Have to agree. His playing is stilted and doesn't flow - sounds like a guy whose been playing a few months - and the drum sound is horrible.
@christopantz
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheUltimater72 they probably mean dry to describe a sound that has little to no reverb, and saturated to describe a sound that is overdriven. Makes perfect sense to me
@Dandroid5000
2 жыл бұрын
@@DUwins Well just crush the shit out of it on an old cassette 4 track......if you bounce the drums from track to track it keeps adding texture!
@AidenBradley95
3 жыл бұрын
I like how the engineer talks about the stereo balance between the two toms and how it's cool to have the floor toms bouncing from left to right and there are no examples of it at all.
@martywhite2988
3 жыл бұрын
Not one. And he also says he's into mono drums, yet left and right is stereo. Besides having nice gear, these people are goofs.
@alanduncan1980
8 ай бұрын
@@martywhite2988 total goofs. The kit sounds woeful and his drumming is shit. I wouldn't let him anywhere near a set of drums on a recording, and I wouldn't allow the hipster dude near a mixing desk in a studio either.
@Goose1162
6 жыл бұрын
I need a “how Kevin Parker gets his drum sound” video
@egorfrolov7754
5 жыл бұрын
Grab a few blankets and you're on your way
@NotDingse
5 жыл бұрын
Egor Frolov and a compressor
@bipbong2906
5 жыл бұрын
aMoral27 it’s bad tho
@TylerWyattonline
5 жыл бұрын
slam that “Boombox Drums” and “Punchy Drums” audio mixing default effects in Ableton and you’re in business
@tannerjmatheson
4 жыл бұрын
You're in luck, just look up lonerism drum sound, also try the video of the experimental crushed drums because I think that sounds similar
He plays like a dad playing drums for the first time at a wedding
@carsonmitchell3468
5 жыл бұрын
ali hitit I came hear to leave a comment on his drumming but you kinda nailed it haha
@paulanthonymorrisjr
5 жыл бұрын
Everything the black keys does I feel is gonna end up being a funny or die sketch. I thought they were gonna start saying " yea we got some mics under the floor boards to give that next door neighbor to a garage band sound, and we got mics in the ceiling to give that stalker in the rafters sound"
@ccgbassandmore3
4 жыл бұрын
you gave me an idea
@papaslaps
4 жыл бұрын
this made me laugh out loud
@thaddeusodonnell3986
3 жыл бұрын
When The Emotions recorded The Best of My Love in Muscle Shoals one of their tricks for reverb was to bury an oil drum outside the studio and run a mic into it. Didnt get the details on the distance or type of mic. Am good friends with one of the engineers that was on that session and he told me those were the types of "secret tricks" they'd do in Muscle Shoals
@Sunkenballs12
3 жыл бұрын
@@thaddeusodonnell3986 with all do respect to those gentlemen ,that sounds dumb as shit and completely impractical.
@thaddeusodonnell3986
3 жыл бұрын
@@Sunkenballs12 well that's why my friend has multiple Grammys...and you dont
@fancynumbers9576
4 жыл бұрын
I know I’m kind of a moron for trying to enlighten anyone on the internet but dang this kit sounds amazing. Y’all are nuts. So balanced punchy and dry and the cymbals aren’t overbearing.
@officialelviscostello_
Жыл бұрын
🤘🏻🤘🏻🎤🎤💖
@petertromp8786
6 жыл бұрын
Honestly, the mono overhead sounds by far the best. Don't know why you need all that other shit.
@evanmatthiesen7478
6 жыл бұрын
in a mix with other instruments the other mics are very helpful
@DylanBrady1
6 жыл бұрын
agree
@manysnakes
6 жыл бұрын
It's not just that the overhead sounded better, it's that everything else sounded terrible. Just compressed, unlistenable drums that are indistinguishable from a drum machine.
@BIGpony777
5 жыл бұрын
think about it in the context of a mix? without the kick mic thats not gonna stand out at all and youll probably just end up dragging in a second kick sample over the original kick, so why not just record the og with its own mic, same with the snare, you need the snare to stand out theyre the most important percussive elements for this type of music. although the snare is very compressed it just sounds like they tried eqing the hats out and then compressing the snare and it was sloppy and quick- probably done quickly before the cameras came maybe
@queenhenryviii
2 жыл бұрын
@@manysnakes Ummmm… that’s the point. It’s almost as if you’ve never listened to Pat’s style of playing. He’s going for that slinky low fi hip hop drum loop sound as a homage to what he loves.
@gijsdries4141
5 жыл бұрын
Before recording any drums, get your internal clock straight.
@pepe7drum
6 жыл бұрын
My god that drumming, how can he be a drummer for such a long time and don't be better?
@wavepirate
6 жыл бұрын
He is the perfect drummer for what he does.
@pepe7drum
6 жыл бұрын
wavepirate yes, like Lars Ulrich
@wavepirate
6 жыл бұрын
@@pepe7drum oh, you're one of them! Fun. Metallica is great. The Black Keys are great. I don't know how you listen to I Got Mine and come away not respecting Pat's groove. You probably hate Meg White, too?
@wavepirate
6 жыл бұрын
@@pepe7drum like seriously dude, Pat plays his ass off here and the feel he creates is undeniable: kzitem.info/news/bejne/w2emvqmijaygZKw
@lt.frankdrebin3317
6 жыл бұрын
I wonder the same about Mick Fleetwood.
@alexsunsin
2 жыл бұрын
He’s not the most technical drummer but his grooves are awesome!
@alanduncan1980
8 ай бұрын
You must be joking! He lacks groove. He has a poor technique, and no feel, no dynamics, no rim shots, just awful. He sounds like he's been playing drums for about a week.
@druidmeats
5 жыл бұрын
oh man that snare is really killing the entire drum set
@austing.8870
6 жыл бұрын
I love how we have to go this in depth to get a result that sounds like a cheap drum set being recorded in a garage through a tin can.
@michaelcaplin8969
5 жыл бұрын
@MorbidManMusic Austin G. I am also an engineer having worked at one of northern Europes largest and most well equipped studio complices for a long time, and I can tell you that MorbidManMusic does not know what he/she is talking about. Period :)
@OwainOwine
5 жыл бұрын
Everything to do with mixing and music production is subjective my man, each to their own
@np466
5 жыл бұрын
Austin G. You really pissed that guy off😂. How dare you have an opinion...
@AGENTtimex
5 жыл бұрын
@MorbidManMusic *someone expresses their opinion* MorbidManMusic-"your ego is bloated."......"I have the skills" "I hear through all the bullshit" lolllllll
@chompyb
5 жыл бұрын
@@michaelcaplin8969 Studio wouldn't happen to be in France by any chance. Nuff said.
@matthewdotson2186
Жыл бұрын
I've been getting good results with just one small pencil condenser above the drum kit a few feet pointed down at my snare, with an AKG D112 kick drum mic on the resonant head. So just two microphones. No phase issues. But I also produce simple, 60s sounding surf rock. The only downside is I gotta hit that snare drum hard, and then boost it with EQ. But I prefer the two microphone setup and Ableton Live to all of this hardware (that I don't know how to use and can't afford).
@kanehenderson5142
4 жыл бұрын
Yo hip hop producers! If you find your way to this video,the drum break is at @5:22
@bb-of3qz
6 жыл бұрын
Killed that snare like as in no bueno, major money in that little studio. Gear bonanza.
@zeboogieburitto
6 жыл бұрын
I hope the Black Keys make a new album soon so badly
@alanduncan1980
8 ай бұрын
They should hire a session drummer instead of letting this guy anywhere near a drum set in a recording studio. He's a pretty woeful player.
@damienlewis7882
5 жыл бұрын
Can’t say I love the snare sound
@nycLPplayer
6 жыл бұрын
This made me realize how much time I waste on getting the tone instead of just playing, creating, having fun.
@NotASaint1985
6 жыл бұрын
A testament to the OP's comment, Led Lep. Bonham's tone is literally 4 mic's and sounds like another planet vs this.
@Czyszy
6 жыл бұрын
I personally love the sound. Reminds me of Wizard era Rundgren.
@Yourveryowncarrot
6 жыл бұрын
Unpopular opinion: that snare drums sounds fucking awesome.
@mouthpee
5 жыл бұрын
This is the rock n roll version of McLovin.
@swim_ad
3 жыл бұрын
One name ? What are you, Seal ?
@johnd.4536
5 жыл бұрын
A very powerful songwriter.
@rockkevinrock
5 жыл бұрын
Outside of the basic info, I love seeing all of the bass traps and treatments all over the walls, and those standing baffles around the perimeter. Looks like a beautiful situation.
@felipemorayta7424
3 жыл бұрын
When you realize that tchad blake just replaces the kick in the mix haha
@MrJeppeisen
6 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one liking the snare?
@elektrozil9728
2 жыл бұрын
didnt really like the black keys until this video. process is inspiring.
@thejordanruiz
6 жыл бұрын
How Patrick Carney Gets His Drum Sound: Tchad Blake
@NormSpupsEntertainment
6 жыл бұрын
Yes! I was waiting for Tchad or the sansamp to get name dropped
@alanvelasquez837
6 жыл бұрын
Jordan Ruiz he’s just tighten up lol
@freepoco2
5 жыл бұрын
No one: Reverb: how to get Patrick Carney’s drum sound
@uncrownedoak7777
5 жыл бұрын
This meme dead yet?
@freepoco2
5 жыл бұрын
no one: @@uncrownedoak7777 : This meme dead yet? NOPE
@marcogman8905
6 жыл бұрын
I wonder if all that can be recreated with a DAW and plug-ins? Solid video.
@TimotheCatlin
6 жыл бұрын
You could get close enough, but you'll need some not completely crap mics.
@GeoZero
2 жыл бұрын
Man I was surprised (and glad) to see the four Trident 80B's EQ's in the 500 box, I also have four of them. :)
@laustenfound
6 жыл бұрын
There were moments in this video, where I was waiting for Patrick to look into the camera and ask, "Do I make you randy, Baby?!"
@jspanos500
6 жыл бұрын
Not digging that drum sound at all, but I will say that mono drums are very under appreciated. You can get a lot of power from driving the kit right up the middle of the mix. Of course this does not work for all musical styles.
@dandafunk
5 жыл бұрын
I remembering recording drums back in the day very difficult to get the sound you want on tape the cole overhead spread mics sound the best out of his entire run through.
@chrisloudermilk1431
6 ай бұрын
Is the mono overhead the same distance from the kick beater as the coles are from the kick beater?
@edwarddelavilla3475
2 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but... does anyone else think that in the final mix that snare is the most horrendous snare ever? lol.
@crazyprayingmantis5596
6 жыл бұрын
I like the drum sound on their Magic Potion album
@danielallan5058
6 жыл бұрын
I love that too,but I know the drums on magic potion wasn't recorded like what was shown here in the video..on magic potion they actually let the kit breath and bleed in with itself. the drums in the vid sounded like a drum machine..dead almost!!
@JS-lr2ly
5 жыл бұрын
On headphones it's great. It's not about the drums so much as it is the named effects( from the afro dude) have on the end result, which is a robust and strong sound. It sounds perfect for a mix already. I'll have to try a similar crossover setup attempt in ableton as i sadly don't own any API's. nice console marc.
@manoloherrera
6 жыл бұрын
Im sorry but I don't really like a snare so compressed and muddy. Its sounds like Its gonna get lost in the mix with the guitar over that
@monkeyxx
6 жыл бұрын
snare sound is really bad, almost cartoony
@Grayham4
6 жыл бұрын
Yeah. I watched them on Austin city limits. Can't stand his sound
@jeremyrising8293
6 жыл бұрын
It's garage rock, the point is to be messy actually
@EtcEtcAndEtc
6 жыл бұрын
it's more gated than compressed
@alexbreyer6921
6 жыл бұрын
My take is that is cuts through better than most. Strange how people hear things differently.
@JeremySmith23
5 жыл бұрын
I kept waiting for it to all come together and sound amazing. Honestly I am shocked at that sound. Don’t get me wrong, I love a dirty drum sound, this just isn’t it. I think it’s the snare gate killing all the life for me. I guess when you have no bass in your band you have to fill it up with snare distortion?
@ivanmay7890
3 жыл бұрын
Patrick Carney, Jeff Porcaro and Keith Moon are the best drummers in the world. Enough said
@alexnackman4388
6 жыл бұрын
This was extremely informative.
@dfinma
2 жыл бұрын
1:30 Good to see even rich famous dudes steal $3 milk crates.
@udomatthiasdrums5322
3 жыл бұрын
still love your Work!!
@vicdmise
5 жыл бұрын
Surprisingly dry for 2 room mics, sidefills, and getting a feed from the EMT140.
@Perrythedrummer
5 жыл бұрын
This guy is the same age as me, now marrying my dream girl. I’m starting to like him more and more
@VexaS1n
5 жыл бұрын
Snare not found!! But I dig The Keys a lot. Cannot wait for a new album release
@officialelviscostello_
Жыл бұрын
🤘🏻🤘🏻🎤🎤💖
@UnnecessaryComment.
5 жыл бұрын
Very informative thank you
@PHELCAN
5 жыл бұрын
Reverb, these videos are fucking gold! Please keep putting them out! I would love to see one with some of the recording techniques of King Gizzard
@MaxStephens77
6 жыл бұрын
Cool set up but man that snare sounds terrible
@ChristopherHero
6 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Farty distorted snare.
@PaulRodriguez9
5 жыл бұрын
Patrick and Jim Root of Slipknot, I can totally see being brothers lol. Tall, older hipster vibe lol. I would actually love to see them together, both very funny dudes
@RJD18437
6 жыл бұрын
So awesome!! And Long overdue!!!! HANDS DOWN ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED ARTISTS AND DRUMMERS IN THE WORLD!! 🙌🏽⚡️🤘🏽🤓😎🧐🎙🎛🎚📽
@dennisavila317
5 жыл бұрын
If Jim root played drums
@mediumstudio
6 жыл бұрын
yes! he's such a cool cat / that kit is sick, too / love the snare mix - thick!
@nitaigauranga3849
6 жыл бұрын
THis was a good video.
@beepbeep2446
6 жыл бұрын
How do you get the drum sound on When The Lights Go Out. So crispy
@BrentHarmon
4 жыл бұрын
Ditch the Cole mics and re eq (or use different mics) both the snare and kick sounds and Patrick would have a decent sound.
@blakecurry3461
2 жыл бұрын
Marc belongs in a duo band called "The Wet Bandits". Who then change their name to "The Sticky Bandits" later in life.
@atomicgarden89
6 жыл бұрын
I like how he thinks Zildjian Cymbals swallow up his snare... Not like his technique of hitting the cymbals harder than the drums has anything to do with that...
@Yourveryowncarrot
5 жыл бұрын
Uhhh, no. Zildijan's are piercing.
@atomicgarden89
5 жыл бұрын
@@Yourveryowncarrot Maybe the a series or a customs, but even those aren't anywhere near as bright sounding as any paiste cymbal I've ever played.
@dazpatreg
5 жыл бұрын
I really liked him in the hangover
@soejrd24978
6 жыл бұрын
Meme-god Carney
@ryanshook8284
Ай бұрын
Bless each individual channel sounded super killer just to be letdown at 5:21. Aii
@davidpfeifer9489
5 жыл бұрын
Of course he’s gotta fuckin round badge.... lucky bastard
@jerbear97
5 жыл бұрын
to all those _drummers_ complaining about the drum sound: well, he managed to make something out of it. unlike _those who claim to do the same_
@dougthealligator
6 жыл бұрын
Simple, play like Meg White but somehow less technically
@SeemoreDunkan
6 ай бұрын
I count only 4 API 560's on the console.. Are you sure he didn't say 550's a couple of times but it was accidently written as 560's?
@JTRIV1029
6 жыл бұрын
That drum sound at 4:14 is killer
@yourbuddykevin
6 жыл бұрын
this dude is 38?? thought he was like late 50s.
@galleryofrogues
5 жыл бұрын
km5658 He’s had a big history of alcoholism and other strife. Think he’s doing better these days.
@TrombonesOfBC
6 жыл бұрын
Do Kevin Parker drum sound!
@thanks5009
5 жыл бұрын
im waiting for that video!
@groalerable
5 жыл бұрын
the band makes straight forward blues rock, what do you want the guy to play?
@casualintrovert207
6 жыл бұрын
I really like the sound of that distorted snare idk about you guys.
@Masterfilm15
6 жыл бұрын
interesting as usual , I like the sounds here,, so much set up tho... trying to figure out my sounds atm.. with low budget which is like ya know accept what ya get,,, I have a small set up.. so trying to find ways to record drums with out a bunch of gear,, but maybe impossible.. I got Shure drum mic's but cheap over head mic's thinking of finding a few better over head mic's,,learning curve for me but thanks for posting this video!
@taotoo2
5 жыл бұрын
Woah easy on the room mic/emt at the end there
@AnyRoadAnyTime
5 жыл бұрын
Whoa! That mono overhead mic was great. Not much else was needed, either... but they killed it by overproducing an underproduced sound. Certainly not a very "live" sounding mix, but I'm sure it works with the rest of the tracks when added.
@brittanyambrose1137
5 жыл бұрын
The close snare mic sounds like ass and it kinda killed the final. That room and mono overhead sounded excellent, I would have washed the whole thing with those :o
@officialelviscostello_
Жыл бұрын
🤘🏻🤘🏻🎤🎤💖
@skeene_6824
6 жыл бұрын
Pat looks like he’s into mono
@stillphil
4 жыл бұрын
IDK . . . vintage gear and wonderful studio aside, the overall drum sound on Griff Squared (Recorded on the Tascam Model 24) is more pleasing to the ears and IRA savings account.
@jgreen6434
5 жыл бұрын
I dig the Black Keys, their records sounds great. But you can’t tell me all this excessive sound engineering is the reason they sound so good. It’s overkill. Knob nerds. Waste of time and money
@desertrainfrog1691
2 жыл бұрын
One of their best albums is Rubber Factory. With their budget back then, playing in an abandoned tire factory, I highly doubt much was going on with sound engineering and overall refinement.
@kelebeksky
9 ай бұрын
My crush❤
@E2renne
6 жыл бұрын
Waaaaaiiiit a second. SO does this mean new Black Keys stuff on the way?...
@nocuh
6 жыл бұрын
The 1176 was right there yet went unused?????
@damienlott
5 жыл бұрын
Wow, sounds like crap to me, way overprocessed, compressed, gated, distorted, to me. But they are selling stadiums and I am posting here alone on youtube so what do I know.
@ROIDS
5 жыл бұрын
It probably sounds much better in context of a mix
@simons9764
2 жыл бұрын
His explanation of Paiste vs Zildjan is confusing because that Paiste is a lot more midrange-y than the Zildjan which is all highs
@snippletrap
6 жыл бұрын
Sounds dope guys! Please laugh at these haters all the way to the bank.
@lucaspadulo8189
5 жыл бұрын
Mixing is always contextual. This drums sound distinct and clear, and obviously work in the context of The Black Keys records. Anyone with a "yikes" comment here probably uses different techniques for their music, but if you do like the Keys records at all, then surprise! These are the sounds that contribute.
@connorferrand527
5 жыл бұрын
I feel like a lot of the kits characteristics are lost along the way.
@RosstaFloss
5 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of Anthony Bourdain
@revol40
6 жыл бұрын
Valley expander? Reminds me of the 90's.
@nasticanasta
6 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure he gets his drum sounds from drums
@FranklyNorman
2 жыл бұрын
Wonder how many pickup truck commercials it took to pay for all that
@espenandersen3138
5 жыл бұрын
dont know, but I think they can make a better blend between those mic s
@13alan69
4 жыл бұрын
They probably tried to recreate Mark Neill's big sound from the 'Brothers' album but sorry, it didn't worked ;)
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