Imagine working for TV licencing and going to all the effort of triangulating an unlicenced local oscillator, knocking on their door and saying "Hello, I'm from TV licencing, can I come in?" just to be told "No."
@baronedipiemonte3990
2 жыл бұрын
I am something of an anglophile, and was actually shocked to learn about the TV license, and the "search van" hunting for unlicensed TVs. I mean, Damn... Honestly, I have a like for the people, the armed forces (spent 2 wks w/RN), and some of the most beautiful camping in the world. Not so much the political stuff.
@barrieshepherd7694
2 жыл бұрын
Back in the day you needed a license for radio or TV reception. It was The Post Office Radio Interference Branch back then and they did have more powers than the TV Licensing mob.
@AnthonyHandcock
2 жыл бұрын
It's a fact that TVL have never used "detector evidence" in any court proceeding and give the explanation that to do so would reveal sooper-seekrit information to the defence about how it worked and its capabilities. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to think the alternative explanation is more credible. That it either doesn't work at all and it's all bluff or it does work but not to any degree of accuracy a court would be willing to accept as evidence and it's mostly bluff. I tend towards it being all bluff and even though it is, or at least was, technically possible it wasn't worth the time and expense so it was all bluff. I haven't owned a TV for over 20 years so I don't concern myself with the subject any more but TVL were sending out leaflets that claimed their "hand-held detection technology" was so sophisticated and so secret that it was designed by two teams neither of who knew what the other was doing... Yeah... Pull the other one TVL.. It's got bells on. As if designing cutting edge devices works that way.
@JETJOOBOY
2 жыл бұрын
Here is something Rather sad but true.. When I worked for RADIO RENTALS, I initially earned my stripes in a Bucket Shop.. Churning out EX RENTAL TVs etc.. Every Thing we sold had a "FREE" 3 MONTH WARRANTY... FOR ABSOLUTE FREEE! All the customer needed to do was register their NAME, ADDRESS and POSTCODE for a Possibly illegally poor warranty for 3 months.... Even though they probably had 90 days by Consumer Retail Laws anyway..... The whole agreement was that when Buddy bought a £20 14" Nearly Colour Portable Ferguson... THORN EMI... Would log the Name and Address and Postcode with TV Licensing! Greasey
@dougle03
2 жыл бұрын
@@AnthonyHandcock It's pretty common knowledge now that the vans never worked technically. But they were a great marketing tool, so their value was somewhat valid, if not technically incapable. Imagine being a TVL van crew knowing that you were effectively an actor... lol
@flyingcoconut2284
Ай бұрын
"unlicensed TV sets" sounds really dystopian
@SilverSpoon_
24 күн бұрын
yeah that's England...
@Trump985
22 күн бұрын
I think they mean unlicensed TV stations not TV sets. Why would you need a license for a receiver? They are trying to stop pirate TV and Radio stations that are broadcasting without a license and probably interfering with a licensed station.
@BODYBUILDERS_AGAINST_FEMINISM
21 күн бұрын
Bro they don't even have freedom of speech😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@SilverSpoon_
21 күн бұрын
@@Trump985 UK has insane taxes. Here in France too we had to pay a TV tax which I escaped for a while since I use a large plasma monitor that was legally a PC monitor not a TV receiver. now it is globalized to all displays and computers and included in other taxes. this is insane, all that to pay people who shit on us on TV and shitty rap on radio. «it's to fund culture» they claim. I'm an artist, I draw and paint, do I earn a single fund? 0. I don't want to. Instead I am required to pay 25% tax on my commissions. To fund the shitty crap supported by the gov.
@Trump985
21 күн бұрын
@@SilverSpoon_ Wow, please tell me that your TV is at least commercial free? Here in the US we have free broadcast TV however it’s paid for with commercials. We also have cable and satellite TV which you have to pay for however it still has ads. Personally I don’t pay for cable, if it was commercial free I might.
@tonymagnier9846
2 жыл бұрын
Back when I was 14/15 I discovered the local oscillator leaking RF at the 1st harmonic 10.7mhz above the tuned frequency on "VHF", so a radio tuned to say 90mhz would transmit at 100.7 a blank carrier. By exploiting this feature I was able to set up an FM pirate station by opening up the radio, locating the oscillator, attach an antenna and modulate the carrier with music from my 3 in 1 stereo, all the neighbours would tune in...those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end.
@-fuk57
2 жыл бұрын
Gonna go drink a beer and listen to Mary Hopkin tonight.
@jmr
2 жыл бұрын
I had a Karaoke machine that blew some electrical part and started transmitting on an FM station. That was fun with it's tape player and built in microphone. A whole radio studio in a box. Even portable if you had enough D cells. 😂
@sw6188
2 жыл бұрын
I think you mean 10.7 MHz and 90 MHz. Megahertz. mhz suggests millihertz although that would actually be mHz.
@dafoex
2 жыл бұрын
😢
@brendonelton
2 жыл бұрын
@@-fuk57 My uncle Dated Mary Hopkin, from Pontardawe, Swansea haha
@opts9
2 жыл бұрын
I saw the inside of a detector van in the early nineties. Except for a crisp packet, it was completely empty.
@wigglepig115
2 жыл бұрын
You were misled...
@opts9
2 жыл бұрын
@@wigglepig115 by what?
@wigglepig115
2 жыл бұрын
@@opts9 whilst it true that *some* of the vans were dummies (for purposes of research) there were a number of real, working setups (more than two and fewer than twelve.) The equipment was/is complicated to operate, extremely costly and not completely reliable, especially with the changes in radio designs in use.
@opts9
2 жыл бұрын
@@wigglepig115 yeah, I can believe it.
@roberthilton172
Жыл бұрын
@@wigglepig115 absolutet rubbish
@philipbrown2628
2 жыл бұрын
In the early 2000s two detector Vans used to park up overnight at the fire station I served at. We got quite friendly with the operators who used to pop in for a cuppa before starting work, they confided in us that the Vans were all bluff ! Not believing them they showed us that the Vans were indeed empty of anything !
@jmialtacct
Ай бұрын
My guess is that by 2000 there were already so many noisy switch-mode power supplies, invertors etc. that overwhelmed the airwaves and made any detection impossible. A cellphone charger probably makes more noise than a thousand old-school radios. But there are no white vans to police unwanted EMI. I mean interference, not the Abbey Road company.
@richiehoyt8487
Ай бұрын
Sounds like a cushy number!
@orangejjay
16 күн бұрын
@@richiehoyt8487Sounds BORING. Who actually wants to go to work and do nothing all day? That's a sure way for a slow day and feeling like you're not accomplishing anything. Sure, life outside a career is great but a lot of people enjoy feeling like they're accomplishing something and driving an empty van isn't going to do that.
@mpcgamingclips
5 күн бұрын
@@jmialtacctyou do realise these vans were all a massive con yeah ? Not one single conviction has EVER been made using evidence from a detector van. Why ? Because they can’t detect anything and never have.
@Biggerbadwolf
2 жыл бұрын
In South Africa we once made an oscillator that ran off a 9v battery. We tossed it into various trees, the signal being so strong it would swamp their equipment. We seldom had much trouble with them after that.
@smorrisby
2 жыл бұрын
Swamp whos' equipment?
@RT-qd8yl
3 ай бұрын
Do you know Winston Sterzel?
@baileyharrison1030
19 күн бұрын
Who? The Zulus?
@dampandrew
5 күн бұрын
@@baileyharrison1030 The Federal Communications Commission regulates interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite, and cable in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories.
@generalmarkmilleyisbenedic8895
6 сағат бұрын
@@dampandrewok….. but he was in south africa
@alastairbarkley6572
2 жыл бұрын
Brilliantly researched, as usual, Lewis. Truly the Mark Felton of radio geeks! The German WW2 submarine service was absolutely paranoid about local oscillator radiation - by mid 1942, they'd issued directive after directive on radio procedure and even banned the use of the military issue 'civilian' type broadcast receiver that was issued to U-boats to amuse the submariners (the output could be interfaced with the boat's PA system so the crew could all be entertained) except when the vessel was in port. The Kriegsmarine SIGINT people believed that the LO on this non-military designed radio was particularly leaky. Could D/f be used on a specific radiating LO signal from an operational U-boat? I think it could. The principal sub command net was hosted on a powerful permanent LF/VLF transmitter at Lorient, France, on Brittany's Atlantic coast, which operated on a fixed frequency. Furthermore, U-boats carried a standard complement of radio transmitters receivers (some with their own D/f capability) so, 99% of the time, listeners to Lorient (of the naval rating, Oberfunkmat, U-boat type, anyway) were using exactly the SAME type of receiver. - and therefore, identical LOs. The Allies by this time had captured enough U-boats to understand this. Knowing the receiver IF and also the frequency of the incoming transmission, means that the likely frequency of the radiated LO signal is exactly known. Sure, the power of the radiated LO signal will be extremely low. And, in fact, the U-boat receivers DID use an RF stage ahead of the mixer. But, those valve mixers (triode/hexode or pentagrid) are unbalanced and provide nil in/out port isolation, so SOME of the LO will be radiated regardless of the RF amp stage. Remember that this is a LF/VLF signal which will propagate via ground wave - and over a highly conductive (seawater) surface will get a considerable distance. The idea that an aircraft within a few kms could accurately detect this easily identifiable signal (and home in on it) isn't so fanciful. However, LO radiation wasn't really the U-boaters headache. It was a red herring - but a herring that also caused them to abandon the R600A 'METOX' 200MHz aircraft radar detection receiver device on the same basis, 'vulnerable emissions'. Had they known about British HF/DF detection and most importantly, Bletchley Park's penetration of the naval Enigma, they would have lost interest in local oscillators completely.
@Andrew-rc3vh
2 жыл бұрын
Oddly I was just reading about an anti-ship missile that does not use radar so it can operate in stealth mode. So it is not just ships - you want you missiles to go undetected too.
@ramjet4025
2 жыл бұрын
Love this highly accurate and detailed comment.
@boredguy10100
Жыл бұрын
I love reading things I really don't understand. Good job on you, nerd. That is both a compliment and a derogatory.
@generalmarkmilleyisbenedic8895
6 сағат бұрын
Excuse me what? mark felton gives the most basic information possible and doesnt give detail or nuance on anything. Unreal people like you exist
@MirlitronOne
2 ай бұрын
Back in the 1960s/70s, the Philips Electronic Engineer kits had a circuit that could be tuned to receive and locate the line scan oscillator frequencies for 405 and 625 line (and indeed, 819 line) TV sets. Indoors, it worked well enough to illustrate the point with a dual-standard TV set. There were regularly TV detector vans seen around our area. One day on the way to school, I saw one with an impressive-looking Yagi aerial on the roof. The driver was nowhere to be seen and he had left the back of the van open, so being a nosy kid with an interest in electronics, I took a peek inside the back of the van. It was completely empty! 😁
@longsighted
2 жыл бұрын
I have only recently come across this Manchester Ringway site. As an ex Eccles stonian now living in Australia and a very long time ago a JET (Junior engineer in Training) at Winter Hill ITA transmitter. I found the article on Winter Hill first on a nostalgia search most interesting and surprisingly accurate. I was there during the effects of the Emley Moor mast collapse and the implications on the Winter Hill mast. I was on my basic training course at Marconi Chelmsford when Emley More actually collapsed. Exciting times as colour for ITV and BBC1 was being implemented. How technology had moved on in the last two decades particularly.
@adamzieba8364
2 жыл бұрын
German WW2 uboats were equipped with a radar detector operating in the VHF band used by earlier Allied anitsubmarine radars. The detector was called Metox and it was a superheterodyne receiver. "Metox also emitted a weak signal, a property common to many radio receivers, especially superheterodyne receivers. In an indirect way, this had serious consequences. In the spring of 1943, the U-boats suffered badly because of the introduction by the British of a 10cm ASV radar. But a captured British officer told the Germans that their misfortunes were caused by the transmission of Metox, which were detected by Coastal Command aircraft. After verifying that this was technically possible, the Germans believed the story. This delayed the introduction of Naxos by some months, during which the U-boats suffered heavy losses." Naxos was a newer radar detector built to detect signals with wavelengths between 8cm and 12cm.
@r0cketplumber
2 жыл бұрын
Luis Alvarez, who later proposed the asteroid impact K-T extinction theory with his son Walter, realized that U-boats' radar detectors non-directionally measured the signal from the airborne search radar. Since the radar pulse drops with 1/r2 and the return also goes as 1/r2, adding a circuit reducing the transmitted signal by 1/r3 during an attack run would still allow the return signal to get stronger during the approach- but make the signal detected at the U-boat decrease as 1/r. This spoofing lulled U-boats into to staying on the surface to run their diesels since the radar always seemed to be going away...
@waylonk2453
20 күн бұрын
I remember a Lindybeige video about this. I believe it's titled "The Battle of the Atlantic: U-Boats and How to Sink Them"
@Madness832
2 жыл бұрын
There was a similar system used, in the States, in the 1950s. At prime time, a detector van would drive around a given neighborhood w/ a system to detect which households had their sets on. But not only that, they were also able to detect which channel the sets were tuned to (presumably via the harmonics). These were tallied up for the TV ratings.
@amojak
2 жыл бұрын
they could pick up the local oscillator for the TV, TV sets had a standardised I.F. so it was easy to do.
@houstonfirefox
2 жыл бұрын
Wait a minute, you mean in Europe you had to supply your name and address to buy and use a friggen TV? Talk about government overreach!
@stevelaminack1516
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but not to find violators with unlicensed TV, since no license was required in the US. At least we did something right.
@stevelaminack1516
2 жыл бұрын
@@houstonfirefox You have to buy a licenses also.. that is FU.
@bobboscarato1313
2 жыл бұрын
@@houstonfirefox In most countries governments use their overreach as a source of intimidation and control. I also live in the Houston, TX area.
@wrongsideof40
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I was about to mention 'Spycatcher' but you beat me to it! It reminds me of the time I discovered - completely by chance - that by mixing the radiated LO carrier (or a harmonic of it) from a nearby valve mediumwave radio, to my portable, Marine Band radio, I could resolve SSB and CW transmissions from radio amateurs on 160 and 80m. I was chuffed (I was 10!)
@anthonypaulgarnett4920
2 жыл бұрын
Yep. Been there, done that. I used to resolve ssb on my cheap Niponease multiple waveband portable by putting a MW receiver alongside it
@bill-2018
Жыл бұрын
I did it too. G4GHB
@NevilofMars
Жыл бұрын
When I was in the Army training at Fort Devens, MA, the barracks I lived in had people who would tune in a local AM country music station and blast music in the barracks. I had to use earphones with my radio so I could hear the station I wanted to listen to. One day the country music was very loud. I was tuning through the AM band to check out what AM stations I could hear, when I heard a faint whistle grow louder in the country music until it was almost all that could be heard on the other guy's radio. The whistle grew quieter until it disappeared as I continued tuning through the AM band. When I turned the knob and tuned back, the whistle returned to the other radio. The guy changed to a different AM station and turned the volume up even louder. I tuned back and fourth across the band until the whistle appeared on the new AM frequency. When the other guy found he could not make the whistle go away, by changing radio stations, he turned his radio off and put it away. It was years later that I found out that the local oscillator of my radio was transmitting a signal that interfered with the other radio, causing a heterodyne noise, which was the whistle. Even though I did not know what it was or how it was happening at the time, I realized that I was jamming the other radio and used it to good effect. Whenever someone turned up the volume of their radio to an annoying level on an AM radio station frequency, I would get my radio out, put earphones on, and tune around the AM band until the heterodyne jammed the other radio. In a short period of time the other radio would be turned off. I also found out that it only worked with AM radio stations and not FM.
@joeblow8593
2 жыл бұрын
All our TV here in the states was supported entirely by advertising with the exception of PBS which was mainly supported by viewer donations. Beyond that, any commercial free TV that was available was on cable TV like HBO which we had to pay extra for.
@stevelaminack1516
2 жыл бұрын
So in the UK you pay for the right to watch TV and still have to watch adverts...total BS. We get a lot of UK shows here in the states, wonder when the UK government is going to try to suck money out of us.
@Mark1024MAK
2 жыл бұрын
@@stevelaminack1516 - no commercial advertising on any BBC TV or radio stations. That’s what the license fee is paying for. But yes, if you watch a commercial TV station, you will obviously get the advertisements as well. However, generally (it varies slightly on the time of day) the amount of advertisements is limited to 15 minutes per hour. Most broadcasters therefore run up to 4 minutes of advertising four times per hour.
@lmaoroflcopter
2 жыл бұрын
@@stevelaminack1516 no. In the UK you pay to own a TV capable of receiving non-commercially funded TV or watching said non-commercially funded TV on iplayer. Hm. Though you may have a point. You pay money to virgin and sky right? And well those channels are full of adverts so yeah I guess you do pay money to watch adverts on TV. Just it isn't the BBC or the TV Licence, but your Satellite or Cable sub.
@dawid8844
2 жыл бұрын
I was in the police when these vans were in use. They were simply transport to take the TV licensing officers to the next batch of addresses and frighten the locals into paying. Detection was 99.9% people confessing on the doorstep. We used to reluctantly enforce the warrants.
@DaedalusYoung
2 жыл бұрын
It still is 99.9% people confessing on doorsteps, the other 0.1% is the enforcement goons twisting people's words into confessing. And they don't use the vans anymore, they use their personal cars. Whenever someone questions whether they have business insurance on their vehicle, they quickly drive away.
@SuperCanuck777
2 жыл бұрын
Ah, yes. crown enforcers all the truths coming out now, you will be judged .
@JLPCORR
2 жыл бұрын
It's still 99.9% detection from doorstep confessions. They have no right to access your property
@majorkonfuzion1007
2 жыл бұрын
gestapo 20xx and beyond
@mmpiforall5913
2 жыл бұрын
Back in 1994 at work a FM table radio had a local oscillator signal strong enough to appear on the screen of a spectrum analyzer what was testing a FM broadcast interface for a rear window antenna intended to address high interference in Detroit's Greenfield Road test course due to the many radio stations there. Broadband field strength at Greenfield was over 500,000 uV/M! Two FM stations even created cross band suppression of a AM station at 590Khz!! (The table radio at work was 200 Ft away from the lab! Finally, a shielded room was installed.)
@boilerroombob
2 жыл бұрын
Redifusion set up a large cable undertaking here in the south east essex uk in 1964 it closed the antiquated 5 channel system in 1997 due to competition from the superiority of the the multichannel vrigin media system ...in late 80s though they introduced Premier movie channel .£10 per month ..but my friend noticed that all they encrypted it with was a simple signal that they removed with an inline notch filter at your end ...so a few electronic buffs soon copied these filters / pcb .....lol.....and sold them in local pubs ...for £20 sovs Or £30 sovs if you wanted the fitting service x
@geniferteal4178
2 күн бұрын
One time, after a pay per view session ended, they had a free give away. No one should have seen it, except those bypassing all encryption, which kept the Chanel open all the time. Everyone who responded was cheating.😂
@DeejvilleTV
Күн бұрын
I remember 20 years ago when TVX was on Freeview there was a guy who used to run a keygen website on the internet to unlock the premium content. All you had to do was get the code from the TV for that nights viewing, insert it into the keygen page on the website and it would generate the release code so you could watch the channel for the night. I tried it for two nights but stopped watching it because British Porn is tame. You see more action in my back garden at night with the badgers lol!
@mor4y
2 жыл бұрын
Halfway through writing the spycatcher comment when you mentioned it 🤣 amazing that they had planes fitted with the RAFTER system, never mind vans.... but it's also the start of the 'white van outside listening to me' trope that started in TV and movies, All the early vans were white as they needed to be made out of fibreglass, and white was the only colour they could do it in and still have it look like a metal bodied van afterwards. Weird how a little detail like that goes on to spawn a trope that's still being used today
@sw6188
2 жыл бұрын
I am surprised to hear that people have been prosecuted for listening to transmissions. Here in New Zealand, there is no law against listening to anything. Basically if you can hear it, good for you. The only thing you are not allowed to do is act on any information you hear. For example, if you hear that the police are about to raid your neighbour's place, you're not allowed to call them and tip them off.
@andrewsmart2949
2 жыл бұрын
as was the case in western australia until recently
@sw6188
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewsmart2949 What was Australia's position on this? You say "until recently" - what changed?
@tonycapone2016
2 жыл бұрын
Digital encrypted now
@SuperCanuck777
2 жыл бұрын
Worcester police made threats against me for alledgely monitoring them in the late 90's before they moved to digital. mind you every man and his dog was eavesdropping on them for entertainment purposes and worse back then.
@andrewsmart2949
2 жыл бұрын
@@sw6188 they changed the law and made it a seroius offence
@ItsJustPhillip
Ай бұрын
Aaah the good old super heterodyne receivers!!.. If I’m not mistaken the original receivers had just 100 nanometers of prefabulated aluminium, that were 100 microns deep - these were surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two main spurving bearings were in a direct line with the pentametric fan. The latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzlevanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar waneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed in panendermic semi-bovoid slots in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible tremie pipe to the differential girdlespring on the "up" end of the grammeters
@ethzero
Жыл бұрын
Genuine thing: just outside a supermarket in a carpark in Oxford back in the late 90s when I was a teenager, I spotted a rather conspicuously parked "TV detector van" (fairly near the shop's entrance, but not too close). I remember one mother commenting to her child not to go close to the van with the blacked-out windows. I on the other hand was both far too curious and was prepared for any consequences. Sure enough as I suspected just with a bit of life knowledge from the shape of this vehicle, when I cupped my hands on the side window to block the outside light to see into the van it was just a regular minibus. A classic bit of propaganda. Of course TV licence "detection" is mostly done by having to register your details with the retailer at the point of sale and of course the rare visit from the licensing people.
@jammiedodger629
Жыл бұрын
My Mum (God Rest her soul) used to work for the GPO as it was then, she told me the old "comma" vans at the Norwich Depot had 2 chairs, a table, a transistor radio along with a large flask of tea for the "operators", no electronic gear whatsoever. They would often drive around and park up on an estate , then stop while the Football was on.
@skysurferboy
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine back in the day the lengths people would go to to avoid detection and now we just give governments and corporations our most intimate personal data, our thoughts, feelings , our contacts list, our tastes in hobbies and pastimes, our finances and purchases and our political and sexual persuasions .....all through our phones. We give it up freely without a second thought.
@yankee7664
2 жыл бұрын
Well because you all said I don't have any ting to hide... Bull s***. You have many things that you what to keep private... people don't need to know you private life...the government and private company's for what they want you information....i bet that is to make money from you or spy on you.... don't give up you private information for free...you have rights...and they don't have any business to know you private information...don't give them any ting...( Asked for what they need it..and say no you don't need it )
@merlin5476
2 жыл бұрын
There's 1 reply to your comment... but its vanished !! Perhaps Big brother has removed it for some reason!!
@RevMikeBlack
Жыл бұрын
Although I understand why licensing of radios and television sets was implemented in the UK, the whole idea of pay radio sounds strange to those of use who grew up in America. The rule of thumb here is that if it's coming through your airspace, then you're free to listen... unless, of course, you're using equipment designed to illicitly decode secure government, military or financial communications. You can get in a lot of trouble for doing that and rightfully so.
@RT-qd8yl
3 ай бұрын
All the cool kids have a "Malicious use of radiocommunications services" charge under their belt 😂
@ethanlamoureux5306
Ай бұрын
If the government, military or bank want to prevent eavesdropping, they need to secure their own signals. If they fail to secure them, then they are solely responsible for anybody listening in.
@Ressy66
2 жыл бұрын
I still cant get over the fact that in 2022 UK charges citizens for licences to WATCH tv or LISTEN to broadcast radio. In Australia 99.9r% of our laws are based on the UK/EU - I'm so very glad this is ONE thing we do NOT copy.
@Equiluxe1
2 жыл бұрын
All the radio/TV licensing goes back to the great scam artist Marconi who got the post office to do his research and put his name on all the patents, he then got a cut of all sets sold (ten shillings I think) back in the days when that was a weeks wages for some then you had to pay a licence to listen to the thing or go blind trying to watch a rolling flickering image that disapeard at every opertunity.
@belstar1128
2 жыл бұрын
Its to fund the bbc in most countries that is just funded with regular taxes.
@wigglepig115
2 жыл бұрын
The radio precept went away many decades ago, so there is no licence required to listen to the radio.
@Ressy66
2 жыл бұрын
@@wigglepig115 ahh thanks for the correction
@Equiluxe1
2 жыл бұрын
@@belstar1128 It is now but thats not how or why it started
@TRIPPLEJAY00
2 жыл бұрын
No need for a TV licence anymore 🙌
@dave161141
2 жыл бұрын
No need for a TV at all. The content broadcasted is not worth it.
@johnthompson2598
2 жыл бұрын
@@dave161141 how can you say that........Re-Repeats of Bargain Hunt are worth every penny
@Electronics-Rocks
Жыл бұрын
I missed this first time around & just found it. So many people think detector vans never worked but I had a run down of how the detection vans worked & got to see inside in 1984. Then they got decommissioned in 84 to be replaced with fake vans looking for just the masts. I was told at the time that the newer TV could not be detected so days was numbered This also gave me an insight into why you could not share a TV aerial as before the filter design change they would interfere. Like the end of the detection vans so did my apprenticeship but the first few weeks I learned so much before leaving. I was NOT going to be part of the detection team but the same company.
@lomgshorts3
2 жыл бұрын
We never had to license our TV's. We wouldn't have stood for it. I realize that conditions were much different during the war in Britain, but even our power grid now emits "broadband - over - power - line" interferences because the power companies just got lazy and didn't want to pay a meter reader and so set things up to read meters remotely. A Ham Operator has to endure so many illegal signals that sometimes we receive nothing but illegal interferences. So, one day I had had enough. I put a low frequency bandstop filter on the incoming mains, and then searched out every switching power supply there was, and replaced them with transformer operated power supplies. Did it get rid of all the noise on my receivers? No, but after shooting out a security light often enough with my airgun, they finally gave up on it. No noise anymore. I imagine that I had pretty much the same equipment that your "post office" officials had to search out all the offending noisemakers. In America, Ham Operators police ourselves - and others. Those who do not cooperate are taken care of.
@JediOfTheRepublic
2 жыл бұрын
You sound like an old man yelling at clouds
@Dorpmuller
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, but he's right... there's so much RFI at my place that SWL is almost not doable. 10 over power line noise. And I unplug or turn off terminal strips on wall warts and battery chargers, otherwise the noise is full pin.
@Rayman1971
4 ай бұрын
For a country that fought for "Freedom" against the Snotzies, it sure is oppressive in many ways....
@darylcheshire1618
2 жыл бұрын
Fortunatly TV licences were abolished in Australia in the early ‘70s I think by Whitlam, I remember a TV ad which showed a man furtively watching a TV and then he gets a knock on the door. I recall it was $12 a year and included all radios not just TV and you paid at the post office. (PMG).
@statusquofugitive8554
2 жыл бұрын
SWIM modified a Walkman in the 90s to modulate the IF and would play their own music over restaurant radio PAs that they patronized. Of course now everything is Bluetooth. The good old days.
@There_Is_No_Spoon
Жыл бұрын
Thats interesting .... I heard on the radio the other day that TV Licencing admitted that the detector vans were actually fake and were used as a kind of deterrent because they couldn't actually tell if a tv set was on in any particular house 🙂
@juliogonzo2718
2 жыл бұрын
I had no idea there was a TV mafia in the UK
@mikewright447
2 жыл бұрын
interesting about the tv vans and how they "worked" but im not sure as there has been no court cases (as far as i know) where evidence gathered by a van has been used and theres anecdotal evidence from ppl that used to drive the vans saying they didnt work it was all fake equipment , they had a list of houses that didnt have a license and they just drove down the street looking for at first an aerial and then the flickering light from a tv and reportedly turned a tv on inside the van and just went through the 2 or 3 channels until they matched the flickering seen through curtains when matched they knocked on the door of the target house and i was told by a salesman that the uk in the 70s and 80s had to report the addresses from tv sales to the relevant body at the time.
2 жыл бұрын
Hello: In your country you needed a licence to watch TV? (!!!). it is unusual today but in Argentina you just put an antena and watch some channels, analog and digitals. I still have them . Vans are very usual, filled pickig illegal FM Radios and use >100 m high antenae to investigate them. Cheers from frozen Patagonia.
@MAlanThomasII
Ай бұрын
It was technically possible to build a working detector van, and in fact they did have some for when there was some genuine issue with interference or land-based pirate radio. (There are some wild stories of random things they found throwing off RF because of an electrical fault or such.) But it was much cheaper to use regular vans with some fancy paint job for PR and personnel transport, so that was the usual.
@rakeau
18 күн бұрын
Listening through the first bit of your video, it sounds like how detecting a device receiving radio, is very much the same way that a radar detector -- and thus a radar-detector-detector -- works. Because the hardware to receive these signals, is very much the same as the hardware to broadcast the same signals, they can inherently "leak" and retransmit what they receive on a shifted frequency.
@HB-ps6rn
Жыл бұрын
Thats a shame they went after scanners. I'm in a rural area in the US and they are essential for us farmers who have to fight fires too. Super useful to be able to hear the FD about how a fire is progressing or to hear what they want to do with air support.
@ejonesss
2 жыл бұрын
i think there are flaws in the circuitry of the receivers that the police can detect such as the local oscillator and the oscillator used to set up the cancellation to extract the signal. there was a device back in ww2 that was supposed to go between the antenna and receiver that would block the stray signals from coming back out to the antenna so you could listen in secret.
@donchaput8278
Ай бұрын
I was around 6 or 7 (1980s) and was given an electronics set. I wired it as a radio and ended up on military frequencies, having fun talking to helos. We lived on naval base and the MP's showed up that day. My parents were impressed and also not.
@choppergirlfpv
18 күн бұрын
In an AM AA5 five tube radio, in order to receive the signal, you have to down convert the signal to another frequency, that is then amplified and output on the speaker. So at least on those old vacuum tube radios, everything thing you listened to, regardless of the frequency, was down converted to the exact same frequency. All someone would have to do would be to tune to that frequency with a directional high powered antenna and pickup receiver, to pick up that signal and listen to exactly what you were listening... it's called a side band attack. I don't know how digital receivers work, but I imagine they do the same.
@choppergirlfpv
18 күн бұрын
AA5 AM radio: "The first two grids of the converter tube form an oscillator. As the radio is tuned across the dial the frequency of this oscillator is changed so as to be 455 kc above the desired station. This is termed the "local oscillator". So if we want to listen to a station on 780 kc we must tune our local oscillator to 780 kc + 455 kc = 1235 kc. The 1235 kc local oscillator combines with the incoming station at 780 to produce two new frequencies at 455 kc and 2015 kc. The tuned circuit in the plate of the converter tube selects the frequency at 455 kc and rejects all others. A station coming in at 770 kc will combine with the oscillator to produce 1235 - 770 = 465 kc. This frequency will be greatly reduced in power by the four tuned circuits in the two IF transformers, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Similarly, the station on 790 will combine with the local oscillator to produce 435 kc which will be reduced in power so you will hear only the station on 780 kc. The frequency of 455 kc is in-between the station's frequency and the audio frequencies so it is called the "Intermediate Frequency" or just IF for short. "
@eprofessio
2 жыл бұрын
Thankfully in my country it is still legal to listen to radio.
@kevinrkinsella
Жыл бұрын
As you know Tempest proofing both buildings and kit was big during the Cold War. A principal driver for these efforts was the knowledge of just how much information was being gleaned from Soviet bloc kit. Nothing was covert in central London, the I.F. receiving aerials were just impossible to hide. The easiest to spot were between the buildings on Church Street and Kensington Palace Green/Gardens;with the obvious data sources being the various Soviet bloc buildings lining the private road. Top left side of any southbound bus gave a grandstand view if you were looking - very few were. These were very large vertically polarised aerials with limited swing. After the Cold War ended the site became a large housing block with eye watering service charges. Regarding information in the public domain:- Wikipedia has a Tempest category which covers a wide range of topics. Remember to check the edits log for some of the information submitted by the public.
@daveb5041
Жыл бұрын
By accident I found this out, I was listening to npr on my radio and I found a weak npr station in the kHz range. Couldn't figure any harmonics for 81mhz then I tuned the radio and realized it was the intermediate frequency stage in my receiver. You could drive around listening to that most radio use the same IF
@chrisreed5463
2 жыл бұрын
The technique was called Rafter (Wright), I've used it before some years ago. But have had little success with modern kit. In the modern urban RF environment without knowing what the target is monitoring and what kit they're using, Rafter is very difficult.
@skuula
2 жыл бұрын
Peter Wright: Spycatcher. They had/have it in the MI5 too, they called it RAFTER.
@lelsewherelelsewhere9435
20 күн бұрын
Crt detector tech was also used to "see" what was on the crt remotely. There was this old school spy invention magazine detailing it.
@dezertraider
Жыл бұрын
WOW,I DID NOT KNOW RECEIVERS EMITTED A EMISSION..THANK YOU
@GaryMcKinnonUFO
2 жыл бұрын
Bloody hell i have a lot to learn about radio! Lost in lingo in just the first minute :) Just got my first handheld, the uv5r. Cheers, subbed :)
@alexanderSydneyOz
Ай бұрын
These days i gather the main MO used to enforce licencing in the UK is harassing and threatening occupants after knocking on their door
@chuck8664
2 жыл бұрын
That's a Hammarlund HQ-120X receiver in the center at 2:50. It had an RF stage which isolated the oscillator from the antenna.
@ianbelletti6241
Ай бұрын
The UK licenses devices. The US funds local stations with tax money to pay for availability for emergency broadcasts. That's why local TV stations still broadcast for free over radio signals in the US.
@robertsteinbach7325
Жыл бұрын
This reminded me of the World War 2 "Foxhole radios" sets built American soldiers. These were essentially homemade primitive radio receivers using a pencil lead instead of a crystal as the diode ("cat whisker") and didn't use electric components to give away its location like regular radio receivers would. These radios were the only way American soldiers could hear radio stations for news and entertainment.
@Robb-jf7vg
10 күн бұрын
Living all my life in the US, I can't even imagine anyone wanting to "track down" my television set !!!!😢
@jeffcauhape6880
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I've often wondered if that were possible - yes it is! Looking at the intermediate frequencies generated by amateur radio equipment I think it might also be possible to identify which make and model (in some cases) is being used.
@1963knight
Ай бұрын
the only thing inside a tv detector van was a list of who had purchased a tv licence and who had not
@OldManBadly
Жыл бұрын
When it comes to TV and radio, the UK has got to have the dumbest laws possible. TV licenses are an absolute sham, a way for government to tax the poor. As for radio receivers, the stupidity is even bigger. I tend to follow the simple rule that if you transmit something that I can receive, then I should have the right to receive it as transmitted. Analog or digital, I should be able to receive it as it was sent without question. Now actively trying to bypass encoding as an example is sort of a different game. Even then, unless I am disclosing the content of communication to others, it's just something for myself. I can understand licensing transmitters over a few milliwatts to make sure the bands are not packed with unlicensed users. Reception should never be a crime.
@m7spi
2 жыл бұрын
really informative and an enjoyable watch, cheers M7SPI
@Silverhornet81
Жыл бұрын
This video makes all of the Monty Python sketches about detector vans make a LOT more sense now..
@kinvert
17 күн бұрын
I always knew the principle was true. But I didn't know "Oi you got a loicense for that TV Mate?" was literally real the whole time.
@drcyb3r
4 ай бұрын
Here in Germany it's even worse (or easier for the government). Everyone has to pay for a license if he owns a radio or TV or even any internet capable device. So every household has to pay that fee and they can opt out if they can proove they don't own any of those devices. But as everyone owns ar least a phone, it's easy to say everyone has to pay.
@Choober65
2 жыл бұрын
How can they prosecute someone for listening to something? If they openly transmit unencrypted audio then more fool them. I'll listen to what I want if it's open unencoded.
@TheDoppelgangster
2 жыл бұрын
Always thought TV/Radio detector vans were just a ruse - thanks for explaining!
@LMacNeill
2 жыл бұрын
I can’t imagine having to buy a license just to watch television. How ridiculous! If I want to purchase a TV and watch it, that’s none of the government’s business.
@mr.fredricklawngtawnghedav5094
Жыл бұрын
So if one were to build a primitive crystal receiver, could it be detected by the radio police ?
@Cornz38
2 жыл бұрын
The days of analogue scanners being able to pick up police, phones etc is long gone in the UK. Shame. I did some vids on my AOR8200, still a powerful receiver.
@JohnDoe-pv2iu
2 жыл бұрын
@4.20, 'We have definitive proof that they were watching TV, they had an Antenna!'...🤣🤣🤣🤣 Ya'll Take Care, John
@orbnaes
29 күн бұрын
OMG I forgot y'all needed a freaking TV LICENSE!
@auwz66
2 жыл бұрын
For more modern (ish) techniques see Van Eck and Kuhn. Both did extensive research into similar stuff but post 1980s.
@Mark1024MAK
2 жыл бұрын
To answer some of the points in other comments… The U.K. tv license is actually a tax. The actual U.K. TV License operation is contracted out to a commercial company. It’s not BBC staff that get involved in the day to day operations. Most of the time, the automatic computer generated letters go out regardless of your reason why you don’t have a license. Unless you admit to watching television, or you let them in, or they can see in through a window and see you watching television, they will have great difficulty prosecuting you. Having said that, assuming you can afford to pay for a tv license, it is actually good value for money compared to commercial subscription tv or a typical mobile telephone contract that has a high data usage/allowance. And the money from the license funds the BBC. Whatever individuals may think of the BBC, they are one of the better broadcasters in the world. Some money from the U.K. TV License fee has been used in the past for other public service broadcasters and for other television distribution equipment costs. It was technically possible to pick up the local oscillator of (analogue) radios and televisions. And to pick up the line output frequency of analogue televisions. But as more and more houses got equipment, and as radio/tv equipment got better, it becomes more difficult to isolate which building the ‘transmission’ is coming from. Also the type of construction of the building has a significant effect on the strength of the signal that escapes… It’s much easier to look and see who has an aerial… Or look in through their windows… Or compare the database of homes vs. registered licenses…
@kurtvanluven9351
19 күн бұрын
I would have built a 455KC transmitter and drive around & have a TV on an unused channel too.
@xgford94
2 жыл бұрын
As an Australian TV licenses seam is an insane idea, I get it in the early days wanting a user pays system…. But by the 70’s it should have just been covered by income tax (yes I also know how super high tax rates in the UK are) as everyone would have had a 📺 by then.
@prillewitz
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve got this book and read about this! There is a additional book to this one.
@DavidKirwanirl
2 жыл бұрын
British in WW2 discovered recievers transmit weakly on the frequency they are receiving on so they transmit and listen, then triangulate
@loughkb
2 жыл бұрын
I think your title should have been "How they knew" rather than "How they know". :-) Over here in the U.S., I think, back then, they realized they'll make more money through advertising to a much larger audience than they would have made by limiting the audience through the cost of licensing receiving of signals.
@sferg9582
Ай бұрын
I just can't fathom having to get a license to receive radio and tv frequencies. Requiring a license to broadcast I can understand, but to watch TV? bizarre.
@laurencecope7083
2 жыл бұрын
There never were any detector vans. These days they resort to threatograms ans scare tactics to frighten little old ladies that they will send the boys round if she does not buy a licence, even though she probably does not require one.
@rickybobby8224
Ай бұрын
Today I learned that the UK requires tv licenses 😂
@RingwayManchester
Ай бұрын
Video upcoming
@SUPERSMASHTV177O13
Ай бұрын
You don't need a TV license now in the UK
@billfargo9616
2 жыл бұрын
What were the radio telescope dishes used for?
@PeteRoe
2 жыл бұрын
"I hope you followed that" 5x9 over
@REVNUMANEWBERN
2 жыл бұрын
That's why I ONLY play the SCAN station / button on my radio, where their psychological analysis shows I'm a very balanced individual with much diversity, exactly what any government wants
@tibblescat2918
2 жыл бұрын
I seem to remember a new scientist artcle that said the old TV detector vans worked on Van Eck radiation, which was the phosphorus of the screen its self re broadcasting the signal at a shifted frequency and slight time delay
@W4BIN
2 жыл бұрын
In case some viewers are unaware, the control and or licensing of any radio wave reception on any frequency is absolutely forbidden in America, by any agency. Ron W4BIN
@AECRADIO1
2 жыл бұрын
THE F.C.C IS SLSO AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL AGENCY, CREATED WITHOUT THE PEOPLE'S PERMISSION. I HAD SHEEP ARGUE THIS, BUT NO VALIDATION OFFERED. THIS IS EHY THEY ONLY HAVE 'RULES' AND JAVE NO LAW ENFORCEMENT OR LAWMAKING AUTHORITY. 'BASED ON LAW' HOLDS NO LEGAL POWER. PEOPLE BOW BECAUSE THEIR NAME SUGGESTS TRUE AUTHORITY, IT DOESN'T.
@ginkumpow3726
2 жыл бұрын
What about AMPS cellular service back in the day?
@gmeister03
19 күн бұрын
Imagine needing a license just to look at a TV.
@enforcer-e1s
13 күн бұрын
Its great, as we don't have to put up with annoying and pointless saturation adverts on some channels. Thank universe for the BBC!
@gmeister03
13 күн бұрын
@@enforcer-e1s no thank you. They are jokes
@NANDOFFDataRecovery
Ай бұрын
Nice explainer.
@desbelfastireland9982
2 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU ,NICE WORK,,LOVE THE HISTORY,,, DES CREAN,BELFAST,IRELAND
@craigr306
2 жыл бұрын
There never was a detector van or was they
@ugsisr
2 жыл бұрын
Todays Monitoring and DF Technology has little to no limits... However acurately tracking what someone is receiving isn't easy..
@atlanticx100
Жыл бұрын
The TV detector vans from what you have said appear to work the way I thought. From various FOI requests, they still say they still work but I have a sneaking suspicion it all fell apart when PC CRT monitors, etc became common. Are you aware of any way they can still determine or should I say find out if you are using live TV? I ask this because in no court cases has tech evidence been submitted as far as researchers can ascertain. Thanks for the video as usual great content.
@Roxor128
Жыл бұрын
I dunno if CRT monitors would be that much of a problem. VGA runs at a horizontal refresh of 31kHz while TV broadcasts run at 15-16kHz, depending on the system.
@aliveandwellinisrael2507
11 күн бұрын
5:05 I was just about to comment on how ridiculous this picture was, but then I remembered the current state of the UK...
@myriaddsystems
3 ай бұрын
Local oscillator
@SocialistDistancing
2 жыл бұрын
I can't hear about the TV detector vans and not think of Monty python and the luney detector van in the Monty python skit. Thar was when I first heard of the TV detector vans in the late 70s. TV licensing seemed pretty silly to me then and now. Curious, what was the cost of a TV license? What was the purpose of a TV license?
@e.v.squatch5835
Жыл бұрын
Imagine being required to have a license to watch television. The only thing harder to imagine is an "official" visit because you're watching television.
@CharlesDickson-nv2ol
3 ай бұрын
Imagine having your programs interrupted by regular annoying advertisements
@W9HJBill
2 жыл бұрын
George Orwell would be proud.
@russellrattys6581
2 жыл бұрын
in the early 90s, my parents bought me a basic scanner, and one of the scanner frequency books, i was going through the book with the scanner at home, punching in different frequencies for my area, not paying attention to what the frequency allocation was listed as, inadvertently tuned to the metropolitan police, and immediately as soon as the scanner caught the carrier, a pre recorded voice said "metropolitan police, scan attack, scan attack" followed by police officers keying up, asking if their colleagues had heard the scan attack notification i turned the scanner off as quickly as i could, i have no idea how they knew someone had tuned into the frequency im guessing whenever a genuine police radio was powered on, it sent a coded identifier ping signal to the local tower, similar to what the cell phone service does, so the local tower didnt create this scan attack notification
@w8biatvrepeater638
20 күн бұрын
Wow! At some point, I bet that they will start making certain kitchen knives illegal.
@DJGeosmin
22 күн бұрын
wait yall had to have a license for a TV?
@georgeliquor2931
2 жыл бұрын
Some right brain boxes on here
@opless
2 жыл бұрын
Fabulous photos, do they do tours? (Also second)
@nowster
2 жыл бұрын
Yes they do, it looks like the dishes are those at Jodrell Bank.
@opless
2 жыл бұрын
@@nowster cheers dude, I've always wanted to visit jodrell bank
@211212112
Жыл бұрын
So people had to get licensed to own TV? I never heard that before
@Rainer67059
Жыл бұрын
It's still like that in the UK. In Germany you had to register as a fees payer, it wasn't called a license. About ten years ago, the rules changed. Now every household had to pay the fee with no regard whether we own a radio or a TV: It's a common practive for countries that have public broadcasters which is nearly every country in Europe. But the USA and Australia don't have such a thing, never had. In Australia it was initially discussed wheher to have something like that, but the parliament finally decided against it.
@randykitchleburger2780
Жыл бұрын
2:23 As someone from the US, I simply don't understand this at all. Are they saying you literally need to pay the government for a licence to watch TV, like, just watch? What is the justification for this?
@kensmith5694
Жыл бұрын
You pay to be able to receive programming that is not constantly interrupted by ads. The BBC was funded by the license money. If you are in the US and watch TV on cable, you pay to receive it over the cable and then pay again by having to watch the ads.
@randykitchleburger2780
Жыл бұрын
@@kensmith5694 ahh, okay, totally makes sense now.
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