This is by far one of the best KZitem tutorials, on how to get started with OSM. And has also been a huge game changer for me, and my home theater as well as for my high end car audio sound system. Therefore, I now recommend everyone who in one way or another wants to learn how to get the most out of their sound systems to visit this particular KZitem channel. Best regards from Sweden.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
9 ай бұрын
Thanks a ton!
@timverhoeven8831
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, very clear visual explanation of how the setup works. My 3 important getaways from this video: 1. Ensure that the speaker level is 20dB above the noise floor when measuring 2. In OSM, make sure that your levels are in the green and just/just not touching the orange and that they are as equal as possible 3. Reset the measurement delay, by clicking "apply estimated delay" everytime you move your microphone (or the speakers)
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, Tim! Glad this was helpful for you. To be clear, every measurement you take won’t necessarily have the measurement vs the reference equal. I just like STARTING with what will be my show level with the mic in the middle of the audience to start equal, then go from there.
@strumz81
5 ай бұрын
Thanks! Im implementing system tuning into my setup this year thanks to you! Ive also discovered the db meter feature in OSM, id like to keep the RTA mic at FOH after system tuning for a constant SPL reading during the show, but not sure how hard to gain the mic for an accurate reading, future video please!
@Stefan-9778
Жыл бұрын
Hey- great video. Last couple of weeks I was searching for a video like this which is explaining step by step how to setup everything to get me started. Don't know why it took me that long to find your video. This is helping a lot- thx!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@sonusartis
10 ай бұрын
Um...wow! That was the clearest explanation of a basic measurement set up that I've ever heard! I will check out the rest of your channel as well. Thanks.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
10 ай бұрын
Thank you so much!
@atcordice
Жыл бұрын
Great video. It is nice to see you push the technical part of audio engineering. this information is very valid and make a great differnce in your sound system
@oli6843
2 жыл бұрын
Hey man, would love that video about phase alignement using this software in a live setting!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You got it. I think I know what you're asking for, but can you be more specific? Are you talking about aligning mains to other subsystems (front fills, delays, subs etc.)? Or checking speaker crossovers within a single enclosure? Or simply how to read the phase graph?
@oli6843
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Mains to subs and maybe also adding some fills would be great!
@jondavidlawson
2 жыл бұрын
Yea that would be awesome aligning mains to fill and subs
@geronez
2 жыл бұрын
@@oli6843 plus 1
@jidhinvr4649
2 жыл бұрын
which software using
@martinmares8998
29 күн бұрын
Great video Michael! Detailed and clear. I just started learning OSM and I'm liking it so far. I'm into home theater and want to learn better, smarter ways to analyze my hone theater system and to be able to tweak the system in real time. I want to learn how to do dual FFT measurements and see how updates changes my system in teal time. Your videos are informative and helpful. Thank you amd keep up the good work.
@Alex_Martz
2 күн бұрын
Does the measurement mic connected to input 1 should go BACK to output 1?, you don't mention here if it needs to be routed only to the inputs of the measurement software, because by default the mic we connect on input 1 will go ALSO to output 1 and that will create a feedback loop
@michaelwesterlund5729
Жыл бұрын
I know this is an older one you did but thanks so much for stepping through this. Amazing job! I have now subscribed and working through many of your videos. Do you have any of your videos you would recommend that could guide me on what to do with the data? #1-how to read it; #2-how to apply changes to optimize systems. I have done some work with my home stuff and REW sweeps at 1m but need to move my efforts to PA work I do occasionally. Maybe pink noise is the best way? Biggest challenges I have are aligning top end (horns with compression drivers) to bass cabinets and then aligning all of this with subs. It’s older gear but all I have. Crossover types, optimal crossover points (acoustic also), slopes, phase alignment and driver alignment and gain for all components. Or maybe more simply stated, how to interpret the data and apply it to optimize the rig….across all the critical variables. Thanks again!
@brianisbrined9255
Жыл бұрын
Hey Michael. Just took my first trace thanks to this video. Keep up the good work!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Glad to hear that! Thanks for the encouragement.
@chrisrust3979
Жыл бұрын
Thanks very much indeed, I'm just setting up a portable OSM rig for small PA gigs so your videos are exactly what I need to get me started. Looking forward to learning more. I'd like to recommend the interface I'm using for my portable rig, it's an ART USB Dual Pre which I bought for something else. It's a 2-in 2-out interface with phantom power, very compact, it needs no drivers and crucially it runs on USB power from the laptop (or a 9v battery) so it's a really simple physical setup.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! Make sure and check out my OSM video tutorial video as well. That ART USB Dual Pre sounds awesome!
@shahere_art
Жыл бұрын
Great Video Michael, Thank you so much for your effort and passion ... would be super helpful also to make a similar video about SMAART, and maybe a video about how to actually tune a sound system with Smaart in details adjusting EQ, Phase, Delaying speakers, an A-Z video explaining complete system tuning, much much appreciation and respect brother, Thank you.
@diebeatz
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking time to make this video!
@edwinagueroaguilar6589
2 жыл бұрын
Is the unique one tutorial that explains how to use this software, and how to wire up the entire connections. I've so much time looking for that. Thanks so much.l
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You are very welcome! Happy to help.
@synthclub
Жыл бұрын
Top draw content @Micheal Curtis! Well done. I am amazed at how much I didn't know.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Glad this was helpful to you!
@johnmcquay82
2 жыл бұрын
I'm running a very similar setup; REW (Room EQ Wizard) along with a PreSonus AudioBox USB96 with the Behringer ECM8000. It works really well for me so far. I've not used Open Sound Meter; so I'll check it out.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Nice! Open Sound Meter just released a major update as well, so I think you'll really like working with it. REW is also fantastic, but I'm not near as fluid with it as OSM.
@nhan.flatbread
2 жыл бұрын
Sadly REW cant do dual channel measurement. Which is necessary on PA systems at creating Crossover/sub alignment/filter etc...
@garends225
2 жыл бұрын
This was great. Excited to see the explanation videos for impulse, phase, magnitude etc. When using this setup with a live PA, does the generator loop back run through the soundboard?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! When in a live environment the loopback still runs back into your audio interface. It still stands separate from your audio console. The reference signal (what's going to the speakers) run into either your console, DSP, or back of the speaker.
@garends225
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thanks for the quick response. I’ve been pretty glued to the system tuning videos lately!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@garends225 I'm glad they've been helpful for you!
@juniorodriguessilvajunin9158
Жыл бұрын
thank you for sharing your knowledge
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@insignia1001
2 жыл бұрын
Great Video. Very informative...Thank You
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
I finally was able to download and install. It took turning off my security, firewall, etc.. Then I didn't seem to have all the functions, buttons but found them accidentally by clicking around. I just need an interface and reference mics. Do you actually need 4 total for advanced operations? How much is considered a fair donation? 9.99 EUR by default. I hope I can get the basics and necessities down. Time will tell.
@opensoundmeter
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review! :)
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! Thank you for making wonderful, affordable, and intuitive software. Killer job on this latest update. Excited to dive more into it.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
We should do a video together on the channel once you get your course built. Would love to hear about it more in depth!
@jidhinvr4649
2 жыл бұрын
Good Session ❤
@jidhinvr4649
2 жыл бұрын
which software using
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Open Sound Meter
@RaymanuelMuzik
2 жыл бұрын
Another great info session!! Thanks Michael!! I Just need to download OSM Few questions! 1. On a venue, would you do your room tuning based on the mains only or would you include the subs as well? 2. Do you run your system full range or sub on a separate aux/matrix and how would you implement the subs when it comes to tuning? 3. Once you find your problem area, you eq it and remeasure?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! To answer your questions: 1. I do my mains first, then start integrating other subsystems like fills, delays, subs, etc. So yes, I do include the subs, for sure! 2. I do a "hybrid" approach. I run my sub as a separate matrix output, but is fed from my main LR mix. So, it's not on an aux that I can mix individual sources to, but is on a separate matrix send that I can turn up or down, delay, EQ. So, everything in my mix "could" potentially be in the subs, but I use EQ on the channel to shape tonal balance. 3. I'd like for you to clarify what you mean by problem area : ). EQ is just one tool of many that can solve differing problem types. I often find that many engineers try to solve TIMING problems with EQ, which is the wrong tool for the job.
@RaymanuelMuzik
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio when I said problem area I meant like build up or holes in your frequency response! Expanding on the sub question, since you’re running it on a matrix off of the main LR, how do you setup the crossover frequency?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@RaymanuelMuzik Got it! Thanks for the clarification. I first compare the trace I'm measuring in the room to the speaker's "near field" trace. I either snag that from tracebook.org or measure it on site myself. That gives me good, clean data to compare against Then I look at the impulse response and see if anything I'm seeing in the magnitude response is being "clouded" by reflections. I have a post about this on my old blog - producedbymkc.wordpress.com/2021/01/12/floor-bounces-and-eq/ That makes sure I'm not EQ-ing anything that I can't control in the first place : ) Secondly, I use a low shelf to fine tune the overall low end balance. This is variable due to the array's size and the low end buildup in a room. Third, I move to top end and use a shelf to bring that up to my target curve. If I'm able to divide the PA into zones I'll do HF EQ there as well. Bottom line - I never EQ an individual zone of boxes in a line array below 1kHz. There's no separation because of the spherical wavefront and overlap. When working with single point source boxes, I do the same low shelf and high shelf balancing act. Then if there's any 200-800Hz buildup, I'll use a filter across the whole array. But back to my earlier point, if the speaker has a fairly flat response in the near field, I know that if I'm seeing something very different when I'm in the far field that the change is likely due to room acoustics or floor bounces. When it comes to the sub matrix question: I also run my main LR mix through a stereo pair of matrices for the mains. So, the LR is a "container" for my mix, then my matrices fan it out to all of my PA zones, much like a system processor. I use the EQ on the PA L/PA R matrix to take care of any HPF for crossover to subs. I usually start with a second order Butterworth (-12dB per octave).
@RaymanuelMuzik
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thank you so much!! Learning a lot with your content!!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@RaymanuelMuzik You're very welcome! Glad it's been helpful to you.
@jordanlatrasse1682
2 жыл бұрын
Hey ! First of all, thanks for your videos that help me a lot ! The setup you show here is with one speaker, in a live situation will you do each speaker (right and left) separately ? Or will you place the mic centered between the mains ? If yes at what distance ?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, Jordan. Great question and glad you're liking the videos. If I had a simple left/right setup and only had a time for a few measurements, I would fire up just one of the sides and place my microphone in the middle of my audience and point it at the speaker and capture a measurement, then process accordingly. Then I would do the same with the other side.
@johngilldesign
Жыл бұрын
You are so informative! Your advice has been very helpful. I want to be able to use my Open Sound Meter and 4ch interface to get Transfer Function measurements during performances. I know this sounds silly, but I'm confused about how to connect the interface to the mixer so that I don't have the measurement mic coming thru the speakers, but I can see what I do on the main outputs reflected in OSM. TIA.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Great question! Just make sure your main output on the interface isn't "monitoring" any input, just serving as a conduit for an output. That usually would be the left output and routing your signal generator to output 1 (left).
@jeffreystipe925
Жыл бұрын
This was my question too. My 2i2 doesn’t have routing options so ch2 goes to the speaker and I get feedback with increased gain. Are you changing routing in ch 2?
@johngilldesign
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffreystipe925 I had to make sure the MIX knob was set to PB and not to INPUT on my interface.
@darrinwood7456
2 ай бұрын
I'm new to OSM and Smaart. Do you need the reference signal, or can you just use pink noise that can be generated from the console and simplify your setup by not having a loop thru?
@vivekgandhi4404
5 ай бұрын
I think this is the perfect one to understand👌👍
@ShoundDudeShteve
6 ай бұрын
Why does my email address not work when signing up for the free guide and calculations spreadsheet?
@MichaelNatrin
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic info.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, Michael!
@jimmie999999999
10 ай бұрын
Hi Michael. Excellent video, as always. Is there any chance I can get a cheat sheet for this workflow?
@avia4281
8 ай бұрын
Hi can this be used to measure pc to denon avr receiver (via hdmi) with 5.1. I’m willing to purchase hardware to learn. Thank you.
@Hakon_
Жыл бұрын
Great video!!
@esminc
Жыл бұрын
Great video!! I’m subscribing
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
I did my very 1st practice using two identical turbosound flashline monitors offsetting them, then taking the built-in delay on the with early arrival pushing it back in time 1.04ms. I need practice actually timing a sub to mains. It's still mind boggling needing to get them in phase and time?! 😮
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
Open sound meter crashed on me tonight. I can send pink noise to monitors, meters no green signal meters on osm are not lighting up. Reference mic not picking up a thing. I'm wondering in this used evo 8 bit the dust is what I suspect?
@JackWade92
10 ай бұрын
Please Excuse me if this comes across as a really stupid question but... Were would the Mixing Console be in the above chain? Computer > soundcard > *mixer > speaker?
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
I'm guessing if you're using a console plug into a channel with all processing bypassed rather than directly into the speaker correct? Looks like in Smaart there's signal split from the console and from the dsp.
@dharshanaperera5611
Жыл бұрын
Hi Michelle. Thank you so much for your video. And i m using Tescam 2 Chanel interface. I did the same thing what you did. But when I am going level up from main pa i get feedback. I don't understand why it is happening. If you can explain to me it's really helpful to me. Thanks.
@lml1501
9 ай бұрын
Is there a similar video tutorial like this but with time aligning with subs.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
9 ай бұрын
Nathan Lively has a lot of videos on that.
@overdrivebanda2485
7 ай бұрын
I have a question: When setting up to measure a bigger system (a line array for example) does the cable that is going to the speaker in this example going where? The mixing board?
@nhan.flatbread
2 жыл бұрын
Very good job on this video :)
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much!
@bypassergsmcinco8237
9 ай бұрын
Thank you bro
@macfmradio1694
2 ай бұрын
Am confused about which is my reference signal spectrums on reall time on 😢😢😢 wen I was opan pink . I can find only mic response I can't understand reference 😕😕
@brian_malota
5 ай бұрын
If you only have one mic, in my case a sonarworks reference ID RTA mic, would you suggest tuning my left right by just tuning one side (having mic as close to the speaker as possible and running pink through just that one speaker) and then copying and pasting the eq to both sides or would it beneficial to run pink through both while being center to the two? Or would that create comb filtering?
@giuseppecirco1238
Жыл бұрын
Hello! Very interesting and clear video, but why do you need a TRS cable to loop? A simple TS would work ? Or maybe I m missing something 😅
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Yes, a simple TS would work! It would also make sure phantom power doesn't get passed to your interface outputs. I like carrying a TRS option just in case I need to use it as a patch cable on an aux out on a desk so I can keep the signal path balanced the whole way.
@muhamadzainimansur9624
Жыл бұрын
Thanks sir 🙏😭
@patrickbernard5458
2 ай бұрын
Hey there! Any idea why my scarlett 4i4 shows up as "focusrite usb audio" in open sound meter ? And also, when loop backing my generator signal it seems really unstable as in its jumping up and down in volume a lot more than on yours ? When i see your loop back volume in OSM its pretty steady and dosnt move much whereas mine moves quite a bit.. Im worried that my measurements arent correct because of that! It also seems really hard for me to get good coherence even in a relatively quiet room.. Hopefully you can anwser this!
@ITECAUDIOSTUDIOS
11 ай бұрын
Great video, let me ask you a question, shouldn’t the microphone be placed at listening position?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
11 ай бұрын
If I was trying to tune my studio monitors, yes. This demo is just an example with an extra speaker.
@ITECAUDIOSTUDIOS
11 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio is there any compatibility between this software and LM26 DSP as far as transferring calibration data
@robint6234
2 жыл бұрын
Great video man.... Plz can u make a video sub and top phase alignment using OSM
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! It is in the pipeline, for sure.
@FreeKeenan
10 ай бұрын
Do you time align a 3way system the same procedure as you taught us in your chaos workshop? Tune the high and mid drivers @ onax 50%, then time align @ onax 75% , then add the sub???
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
Debating on the interface to purchase. I just purchased EMM 6 that you recommend. My question is, I don't own a reference monitor with xlr. All I have to explore with is a Klipsch system 2.1, male 3.5mm that I plug into my laptop. Any suggestion how I could possibly route it?
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
I received my Evo 8 today. Is there any to audio back to my laptop thru my laptop computer 2.1 computer speakers? Or am I just going to need a separate self powered speaker? I was hoping to figure out a way to use my computer speakers with sub but it doesn't look like there is way?
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
It's a single output driving the noise so how does one truly know if that noise is actually pushing pos or pulling neg on OSM?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
That output must be compared to a reference signal to generate the impulse response data.
@awong5366
Жыл бұрын
Hi Michael, I am getting feedback on the mic and unable to gain stage to the level of coherence. Any suggestions?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
It sounds like your interface is sending the mic's signal to the speakers. Make sure your direct monitoring feature is not on and the only signal that's feeding the speakers is the signal generator.
@b_14-m8p
11 ай бұрын
I have a question. Can you load local music files in sound meter for testing?
@sounddepot
5 ай бұрын
I don’t see the pdf link that list the equipment needed for under $250.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
5 ай бұрын
I'd look at this updated video - kzitem.info/news/bejne/tnxqy36re3N5ZnY
@VICTOR.TAVAREZ
2 ай бұрын
does this work for live sound as well?
@jjjj9481
Жыл бұрын
When in a live setting the 1/4 inch to xlr that went to the speaker would be connected to my dbx pa?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
That is correct.
@Vectoxity
6 ай бұрын
Hello, if I turn my microphone gain all the way up. It's red (clipping). Do i adjust the gain of my mic or match my reference gain to match it (red)?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
5 ай бұрын
Great question. I would get your reference level to average between -18dBFS and -12dBFS, have your mic preamp +45 or +50dB of gain, then slowly bring up your speaker's level to have the measurement signal match your reference.
@Uzrdinma
11 ай бұрын
Hi Michael. When you're in an arena with many many speakers, do you tune each and every one of them? If you do, how are they all connected to the mains and you still have control of each speaker? PS: live sound newbie here
@craigbowman272
Жыл бұрын
I have follow your tutorial... I am using u Phoria umc202HD and ECM8000 it is all I have... I cannot get the generator to engage... when the measurement layer is selected... it will engage when it is not selected. When I start the generator and then select the measurement layer it gives me a message saying ..... Device is not supported or busy...... Any help or ideas are much appreciated!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
I would reach out to Pavel at Open Sound Meter. It sounds like it's a driver issue with the software?
@craigbowman272
Жыл бұрын
It was ... I did Driver update and it is working now... Thank you!@@MichaelCurtisAudio
@FreeKeenan
11 ай бұрын
OSM stopped working again on my windows 11 laptop. This round I cannot get her back up and running? I even donated to the Russian! Any solutions?
@blakehussey
Жыл бұрын
Can I use a dbx RTA-M reference microphone for this exercise?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Sure thing!
@extractionplus
3 ай бұрын
What are your thoughts on using the DBX Drive rack PA2?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
3 ай бұрын
If you have a smaller system that doesn't need a lot of discrete outputs to wrangle, it'll work great.
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
Impulse response, up down up starting with the 1st small peak or dip, or is it the 1st biggest peak or dip you start with to determine pos or neg polarity your speaker is going?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
It's usually the biggest and sharpest peak, assuming the speaker has sufficient high frequency content.
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
@MichaelCurtisAudio so that tells me I've been misreading it. So up is positive, down is negative correct? So if correct all my speakers are wired either in negative polarity or the pink noise generator is in reverse 🤔 OSM pink noise doesn't really indicate pos or neg, only invert the even channel and I'm only using a single channel 1 just like you instructed.
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
In OSM how are you suppose to know if your pink noise is is generating positive or negative?? The button is labeled "EVEN INV"
@flowercityreviews3540
Жыл бұрын
Hey Michael, I love your channel. Quick question for you. Does it matter if you are sending 48v phantom power to the reference input? Does that effect our results at all? For example, If I'm using a presonus audiobox with just two inputs and a single 48v phantom power switch that controls phantom power for both inputs, can I use this to both power my RTA mic and receive a clean reference signal?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Great question! Most audio interfaces have DC blocking, so it wouldn't hurt anything. However, if you want to be extra safe you can use a simple TS to TS cable (a guitar patch cable, basically) that would not allow phantom power to pass.
@pedrorocha2536
Жыл бұрын
When following this tutorial to the T but when turning the chanel on speak i get feedback from rta mic what am I doing wrong?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Make sure on the interface you're using that the direct monitor button is not pushed and that you do not have your microphone being monitored through your interface's software. Some interfaces also have a single knob that blends between the input and playback for monitoring. Make sure it's only on the playback side, not monitoring.
@pedrorocha2536
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thank you 🙏! I will try tonight.
@ZionIrie
2 жыл бұрын
Hello mr Curtis, you will know from my question i am a newbie to all this analyzing stuff! so my questions are, when you get the data how do you use it to improve sound system quality??is that done by eq, and then you re-test?? i understand most of it but i get lost after all measurements are done. I must say i never thought of getting a tuning rig before, untill i saw your videos, i always thought it would be too expensive, and i thought it was only for big shows /set ups!!. i have an interface i use in my studio, i have cables, mic is on order. can i use a tablette? to run the software or must it be a laptop? Great videos thanks for all the information and thanks for your time
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, Zion. Thanks for the questions! You can run Open Sound Meter on an iPad if you would like. The app in the app store is reasonably priced, so you're not glued to a laptop. When you capture the data you're looking at several different things - the overall system response (which can be altered with EQ or turning up or down certain speakers in your rig), the phase and timing relationship between two different speakers, etc. Bottom line - a two channel analyzer is an X-Ray machine. An X-Ray technician has to know where to put the scanner to see what bones are broken. They have to know how to manipulate the images to see the health of the bones. So, I think your question is getting at "cool, there's data. Now what do I do with it?" The main things I'm doing with it is making sure all of my speakers "health" is well - they have consistent phase and magnitude response. Then I'm assessing the overall tonality of the areas where my speakers are covering. Is it consistent? Then I'm using it to make sure that my system time alignment is in order. I don't want a delay speaker to fire WAY too early compared to a main speaker, for example.
@petterrong1590
Жыл бұрын
Is there a specific audio-related reason for using the DA-AD physical loopback solution, or is it just a hardware limitation of audio interfaces without loopback channel? In other words, could you just do the loopback in-the-box?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You could defiintely use the in-the-box loopback, but it doesn't account for the rountrip latency of your signal leaving and returning the interface. So, much won't change from a magnitude or phase response perspective, but your timing will be more accurate if you use the external physical loopback.
@elitesoundandlight
Жыл бұрын
Hi Michael, great video, I’m getting confused, on the output side of the interface, on goes back into the interface with the jack cable and would the other side jack to xlr go into the console on a spair input channel with no eq compression etc?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Exactly! One output of the interface loops back into an open input while the other output feeds directly into the console or DSP.
@elitesoundandlight
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thank you very much Michael
@djcorewrecked
Жыл бұрын
Can we please see a practical demo with OSM? Aligning subs to mains?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Later this year!
@djcorewrecked
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio wooo! Im aware youre a busy guy. All of these videos are great and ive watched most, several times. Much appreciated:)
@vass1791
Жыл бұрын
Many thanks for your videos ! This kind of knowledge need to be spread worldwide when we see how people work sometimes... Trying to practice in my studio setup (right speaker is sub, left speaker is main) any advices ? I tryied to move the microphone far from speakers but even if i gain stage again or increase the level of them, the coherence trace is lost after 1 or 2 meters from speaker How can we get a good coherence/phase trace and align correctly main/sub, even in large setup ?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Hey, Vass. Are you resetting your delay finder when you move your mic away from your speakers?
@vass1791
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio yes i did I think it come from boundaries effect in my room, even at high level But how can we do in bigger room, or live event with fly main speaker to get good coherence value?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@vass1791 We just have to adjust our expectations and know how to read the coherence the data a little differently and look for patterns. If it's a bunch of smaller, very tight coherence drops it's probably due to room reverb. If they're wider and regular in pattern, that's a reflection and likely a comb filter. Just takes practice. Room reverb is something we can do very little about if we're not also in charge of acoustics/sound damping.
@vass1791
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thanks for your advices, i'll practice it again
@Ps.dewetbotma
2 жыл бұрын
Hi there Noob here. Is this used to setup an EQ in your church building? What would you use this for and whats the best way to get your room EQ on your main fader so your sound sounds good and then proceed to do normal EQ on your instruments, vox etc. I hope i make sense. Still learning Thank you
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Yup, this type of rig is exactly what you use to do the alignment and tone shaping of a sound system, EQ being one of your primary tools to shape the tonality. I usually end up applying the EQ on a Matrix, not the master fader itself, since that mix may end up going several places. If I had to pick one spot in the room to get a measurement of a simple LR mains rig, I would put the microphone halfway deep into the audience and directly in front of the left or right main, pointed at that speaker. Then I would apply EQ to get it to the desired tonality.
@danielafanuitanjeck6294
Жыл бұрын
what do you think about using an Audio Interface with XLR outputs like Behringer UMC404HD? Would you achieve usable results if your Ref Signal is XLR output to XLR input?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
XLR in to XLR out is no problem at all.
@TickleFingers
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video! You sir are a good man! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You got it!
@Modzie868
Жыл бұрын
Hey Michael, do you have any tutorials on how to do the time alignment using open sound meter?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
I currently don't, but have plans for that early next year.
@Modzie868
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio sweet...looking forward to it, been using holm impulse for time alignment but need something a little more....real time
@ThalamusGhipopotamus
Жыл бұрын
What is the meaning of setting the delay time? I don't really understand the purpose of this.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Setting the delay means I'm delaying the reference signal to now be in time with the measurement signal. I can only get accurate phase data if they're synced up.
@ImOzify
2 жыл бұрын
So in a live setting are you essentially reading the magnitude graph and EQing your room to balance out the dips in frequencies? Just wondering how you apply the information from the software to a live setting. Thank you!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Great question! Yes, after you have level set all your speakers to their zones, then it would be time to balance the tonality of the system using EQ. You're definitely taking the decay time and sonic signature of the room into account, but I always start with EQ'ing my system to a predetermined target curve, then listening and adjusting from there. It's tempting to be heavy handed with EQ and try to even out every little inconsistency, though. Less is more, work with broader EQ moves. Sometimes the peaks and valleys you're saying are from a floor bounce, which you can't EQ out. You can't solve a timing issue with a electronic solution. You should be close to where you need to be from the DESIGN and coverage first, then use EQ to take you over the finish line.
@gridironhomeimprovement5964
Жыл бұрын
How do you make the connections for a stereo system? I have a Behringer X32 along with two Bose F1 Subs and 812 Array Loudspeaker stacked (loudspeaker/sub) left and right of the room.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
From a tuning standpoint? Or just the connections in general?
@gridironhomeimprovement5964
Жыл бұрын
Connections
@florian9220
10 ай бұрын
Hey i have a quick Question, can i use an TS Cabel instead of the TRS cabel for the loop back with 48V enabled (The Line Input should not have 48V but you will never know i guess...)? (Steinberg/Yamaha UR22Mk2)
@MichaelCurtisAudio
10 ай бұрын
Absolutely!
@florian9220
10 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thanks! Your Videos helped a lot! 🙌 Maybe you should do a Video about the Equal Loudness Curve. 😁
@TreyTfx
9 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I have a bit of an issue. I think I’ve followed everything you’ve done as far as routing but my coherence never goes above 0.2. I’m using a window’s computer and my audio interface is the Scarlett 8i6
@peevonb7070
2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff, looking forward to time and phase alignment with this setup. Take care!
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear that! Do you understand the phase graph already and just want some common applications for that data set? Or are you looking more of a step by step approach to how to time align a system?
@peevonb7070
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio well I do understand it but got my info from so many places that do contradict. Some align on the impulse response that in case of subs sometimes is impossible. Others do it differently. I do measure distance by laser, and calculate a rough time alignment and then do a phase alignment with osm. A step bij step sub to mains alignment would be great. And infills/front fills still puzzle me at times. Thanks for asking. Great channel!
@monkeystealhead
2 жыл бұрын
@@peevonb7070 kzitem.info/news/bejne/kY2o16KqiWp7Z4Y I mixed the knowlege of this video and kzitem.info/news/bejne/kY2o16KqiWp7Z4Y this here. And i got pretty far. Instead of delay times i moved the speaker i wanted to apply delay. I alligned the Right and left with the Impulse diagramm. Used the RTA to set the Trimm of each speaker. With the Magnitude i decide where crossover of my stereo pair to my sub is. Than i move my sub that the phase is aligned @ the crossover Frequency. Thats it.
@aaronl7669
4 ай бұрын
If I set up this gear and put the mic on the ground i could get data suitable for Tracebook right? Also, looping the signal back into the interface is just to confirm you have good data right? Once you do that, you can just take measurements ir do you compare the reference every time you take a measurement for some other reason?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
4 ай бұрын
Yup! I'd make sure and check out their measurement guidelines PDF for more specifics. You'll us the reference every time you take a transfer function measurement - kzitem.info/news/bejne/y4d6soeNsoRhpKQ
@aaronl7669
4 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thanks for the reply! always helpful!
@ClarkAfterDark1111
11 ай бұрын
Looking for the video that tells me what to do with this data
@jharloe
2 жыл бұрын
Is your set up the same results as rew and no focus right box? What if speaker has no amp enclosed?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
REW would get you similar data, for sure. It uses a sine sweep instead of pink noise. You can use any audio interface you'd like, it doesn't have to be the Focusrite. If your speaker has no amp built in, then you would need an external power amp.
@MatthewProAudio.11
Жыл бұрын
What's different between tuning a pa by 👂 than using smaart to tune your pa ?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Plenty! I can visualize and confirm that the PA is doing as my design intended. When I use an analyzer like Smaart I'm not throwing away my ears, but giving myself yet another tool to make sure the system sounds great.
@MatthewProAudio.11
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio so if you don't have a smaart rig what advice will you give someone tuning by ear ?
@mrcultivator2340
Жыл бұрын
This is a very informative vid thanks! I have one problem though. I seem to be getting a feedback loop somewhere. I think the mic input must be feeding into output 2 somehow but i did everything like you have and even have a very similar focusrite interface. Any suggestions?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Just make sure in the mixer on the interface that you're not also sending the microphone input to the output feeding the speaker.
@mrcultivator2340
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio you're exactly correct my friend. Walked away from it and came back with fresh eyes today and that's what was going on. Thanks!
@aaronl7669
2 жыл бұрын
Do you think there is much to be gained from doing this at a small gig where you have only 2 tops and 1 sub or is this more for when you have a lot of speakers at bigger shows?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
I think it's useful on any show, all the time. Setting up a measurement system will help you sniff out problems faster, make sure the polarity on your speakers match, and give you quantitative data when your ears are misleading. It's best to practice with a measurement setup on a small rig, get comfortable, then graduate into using it on larger and more complex setups.
@TickleFingers
Жыл бұрын
I am trying to utilize this program for a car audio application and I am hoping you might be able to assist with some setup questions. Generally the measurement mic is setup in a 90 degree orientation at the listening position. Is this correct for the use of OSM and the calibration of the USB audio interface? Obviously in a vehicle situation the measurement mic location is skewed to one seat and is not only closer to speakers, but has different degrees of orientation. Would I need to choose a single reference speaker to calibrate the latency with or still use the entire sound system to generate the pink noise? I would assume that one speaker would need to be used as the reference to the static mic location so that impulse response on other individual speakers would have accurate timing? Also, it seems using one speaker as reference will not only time the latency of the USB audio interface, but will also include the latency of sound travel from the reference speaker to the microphone. I didn't see that you calculated distance into the latency for the speaker you used, so I am assuming that the mic would need to remain in that position since the latency was set in OSM for that distance. I have only used REW and a couple other programs for car audio tuning and I'm trying to branch out for better phase and impulse response, as well as live phase tuning for active speaker arrangements. I really appreciate the video and hopefully you can help me make sure I am setting this up properly for my purposes. TIA.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
If you're doing a diffuse field measurement, yes you orient the mic 90° and face it upwards. You can totally do that in OSM. If you're trying to measure the phase response of a particular speaker in your car system, only have that single speaker play then retime your reference delay to sync to that speaker. You're right that the sync delay accounts for the wave propagation through air. I only set the delay time once since the mic stayed in that single position, but yes if you were to move the mic you would need to reset your delay.
@TickleFingers
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thank you so much. What that tells me is that I am correctly applying what I am learning. 😂 I may not say it as eloquently as you, but I still understand exactly what you said. I feel like all of my time and efforts are somewhat paying off. It is because of very generous individuals like you that help us all be better and I truly appreciate your generosity.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@TickleFingers So glad to hear that! Keep up the good work.
@jordancannaday7351
Жыл бұрын
All I'm getting is feedback into my speaker. Any suggestions?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
The routing on your interface is sending your measurement mic into the speaker. Make sure the only signal you're getting into your speaker is the signal generator.
@tomoswilliams9472
2 жыл бұрын
Is there any reason not to use the 'loop' function for the reference channel?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
The first reason is that the digital to analog and analog to digital conversion that your measurement is going through going out of your audio interface is not included in your transfer function. If your audio interface is linear, then that's not a big deal, but your measurement will be affected to a small degree since it's not truly apples to apples. The second is that you will not have the roundtrip conversion time on your audio interface accounted for with your delay measurements. The physical loopback has that full journey in there.
@ghighrolla711
2 жыл бұрын
Can you explain the routing of the referance through the console(say yamaha ql5) and back into the interface? If my mains and ff and delays are routed through a matrix , where do i send the reference signal in and out of and how do i eq those individual speakers? Thanks
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
Sure thing! The "looped back" reference signal. never enters the audio console. It passes out of an output on the audio interface then goes directly to an input. The measurement signal (which is another copy of the pink noise signal) goes into your audio console, then you're free to send that to whatever matrix needed to get to the appropriate speaker set.
@ghighrolla711
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio so the signal that goes into the console, goes to a channel then sent to the matrix? is it suppose to be pre fader?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@ghighrolla711 It can be pre or post. All that matters is that the signal for measurement passing through the console doesn't go through any channel processing (EQ, dynamics, etc). Only have in line any processing you're wanting to apply to the whole PA, like using an EQ on a matrix output to shape the tonality of your mains.
@FreeKeenan
Жыл бұрын
What exactly would a speaker reading positive polarity look like in impulse response and phase? It's still alien to me. 👽
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
A speaker's phase response will be variable over frequency, although it will often "level off" in the high frequencies.
@aaronl7669
Жыл бұрын
I am thinking about upgrading my Main sub and tops. Some people are saying I should stick with the same brand to avoid phase problems between tops and subs or other issues. The problem is I like a sub of one brand and tops of another. Do you see a problem with just using an external crossover into two different brands of tops and subs? Have you experienced problems?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
If you're comfortable reading the phase data and using the necessary processing to make the alignment, then go for the rig you want! I use mismatched mains and subs all the time.
@aaronl7669
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio i could do the phase alignment but I wouldn’t want to have to do it every time i set up. Could it just be done once?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@aaronl7669 If the mains and subs are always stacked in the same position/relation to each other then you could make a processing preset.
@aaronl7669
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio ok, i assumed that it would work that way. thanks
@jastoddart
2 жыл бұрын
any reasion I can't use the usb on a X18r, input the cal mic into chanel 1, loop from aux 1 into chanel 2, and send it out the mains tru the speaker mangement system to the tops and subs? I'd rather not pull the umd404hd out of the studio.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
That sounds like it'd work to me. I'm almost positive the X18r has a routable signal generator, so that should work.
@Baron4Oz
Жыл бұрын
The XR18 does NOT have a built-in signal generator, the X32R does.
@RogerWellsMinistries
Жыл бұрын
I have tried to tune my system with this process, I use the behringer uphoria mentioned in the tuning rig information. It is stereo, so I guess you would use it stereo with the mic knob in the middle or straight up. I am having trouble with feed back from the mic channel when turning it up to get good signal. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for what you do.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Hey, Roger! I would double check the internal routing and make sure that your'e only sending pink noise to your system and not the signal from the mic.
@RogerWellsMinistries
Жыл бұрын
Good afternoon sir. You directed to check the routing, all was like the video. This uphoria umc204hd has a mix knob that must mix usb and the inputs together. So I turned it to the right, where PB is and it seems to work. Not sure what PB means but I thank you for your help kind sir.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@RogerWellsMinistries Got it! I'm assuming PB means "playback", meaning what's coming out of your monitor outs is just playback, not the inputs.
@RogerWellsMinistries
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio one more question- so for this purpose, that’s what I need ? Correct?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@RogerWellsMinistries Yup!
@renesupersonic
Жыл бұрын
Hey I’m using a Scarlett 2i2 interface, should I be hearing the measurement mic through my mixing console/speakers? My interface only has outputs left and right. Not sure if I routed this set up correctly. Thank you so much
@renesupersonic
Жыл бұрын
In other words, should the measurement mic output ONLY be routed to my laptop/sound meter software?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
Yes, you're correct there. The only signal that should be going to your speaker system is the pink noise. The microphone's output should only go to your audio analyzer software.
@renesupersonic
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio is your set up still possible with a scarlett 2i2? the only 2 outputs of the interface are a Left and Right.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
@@renesupersonic Yes. Take your left output and run it into your system processor or console to feed to your system. Take the right output and loop it back into input 2. Plug your microphone into input 1.
@klausdaimler1450
Жыл бұрын
Can I do this with a mono focusrite?
@MichaelCurtisAudio
Жыл бұрын
You need at least two separate inputs to do this.
@klausdaimler1450
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I figured that was the case unfortunately. Thanks!
@johnschalk1271
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this great overview of OSM Michael, it is just what I was looking for. I've been wanting to give OSM a try for its live measurement capabilities, but until now hadn't found a good guide. I was able to follow along and take some measurements, but one difference I noted in my setup (Mac, Scarlet 2i2) is that there is always some meter movement on the reference channel almost like there is some background noise in my setup. Any thoughts? I don't have another USB interface handy to test with. My second question is more of a request to make some more helpful guides for OSM. I own a microphone calibrator that I use with REW so I'm going to see if I can figure out how to calibrate OSM next.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome, John! My first thought on your background noise on your reference channel issue is something happening in the internal mixer on Focusrite Control. Is there anyway there's a loopback function engaged? Second, I think it'd be a great idea to put out some more guides on OSM. What specific use cases are you using it for?
@johnschalk1271
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio My main use cases so far are setting delays on front fills and feeds to ballroom ceiling systems, then verifying polarity between mains and subs and then setting the phase for them. Wanting to build from there.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnschalk1271 Love it. Will definitely work on that!
@johnschalk1271
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I should add that I want to use multiple mics so I’m looking at OSM to see how it functions versus paying $100 for the Pro license for REW.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnschalk1271 I'm no pro with REW, but have used it some in studio monitor calibrating situations, but not live. After using OSM a ton, I feel like you're going to get more mileage out of OSM in the long run with its current feature set and the features to come that will geared more towards your specific LIVE sound system use cases.
@minarellipower
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I'm Thinking of buying this setup. But I have some questions... Kinda tough to articulate but, when evertything is tuned how do you save and use it when dj's have to play and their mixer is hooked up on the main PA... I usually do the tuning on Driverack PA" and it saves the preset once I ring out the room etc. and everything that goes thru that sound procesor is eq-ed and so on. Do you have to run the programme simultaniously all night or it saves that preset on the actual hardware once you rout the signal thru it and to the amplifiers... I know, long question, really hard to express myself XD Thanks In advance.
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
I think I understand what you're asking : ). Every sound source (a band, DJ, podium mic, whatever) needs to pass through your system processor first, then go out to the speakers. So yes, you would do your tuning with the processor, save that, then sum down any other inputs into that processor.
@minarellipower
2 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Yeah, I do that with my dbx... BUT... if I want to add this interface (interface you were showing us in the video) TO my existing setup (mixer-dbx-amps-speakers), is it possible so i can use it live on the gig to monitor everithing, put it in phase etc. If that's possible that would be AWESOME to see a video p.s. this video helped me a lot don't stop doing them for us enthusiasts :D (sry for my english)
@MichaelCurtisAudio
2 жыл бұрын
@@minarellipower Now I understand! Yes, you could absolutely add this to your setups. You would run the output of the pink noise from the interface into one of the inputs on your dbx processor. Then from the input on your dbx you could route it to whatever speaker zones you're measuring. Thank you for the kind words!
Пікірлер: 295