easily the best way to learn basic programing skills and not a way to develop skills you already have at least a small degree of
@KryyssTV
5 ай бұрын
... for masochists.
@davidthecommenter
5 ай бұрын
"...evil and should never be hosted!" - AAA game producers, or something
@gun8737
5 ай бұрын
Did you know, 99% of GameJam devs quit right before making GTA V in 2 days?
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
imagen a world with 6 billion GTA V's. What a loss our world is in.
@Yaboibarel
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindiclearly people need more caffeine
@dumbvillage9253
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindiassuming any of them would be good Next up: how to fail at Grand The-
@destiny_02
5 ай бұрын
so that implies 1% make gta v in 2 days
@AaronRotenberg
4 ай бұрын
@@destiny_02 No, it's just that those 1% quit right before making Elden Ring or something.
@phinblue4989
5 ай бұрын
how to fail a game jam: 1. eat the game jam
@glads-bw6he
5 ай бұрын
Eat the game or the jam?
@portman3950
5 ай бұрын
@@glads-bw6he yes
@alu2901
5 ай бұрын
@@glads-bw6heBoth
@SkullTheLegless
5 ай бұрын
On toast, right?
@BoonkiKinda
5 ай бұрын
@@SkullTheLegless no need for toast
@artman40
5 ай бұрын
One more thing: If you truly wish to fail at game jam, you want to avoid making novel and bizarre gameplay design decisions. Your best bet is to fail is by making mistakes that have been done countless times before, or just not trying anything new at all. That way there's nothing new to learn.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
exactly, no standing out, it's only brings trouble.
@Rydrake6
5 ай бұрын
"You have lots of time!" As a procrastinator, I feel personally called out.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
When I wrote that line, I was thinking specifically of you.
@Rydrake6
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindi D:
@asdfghyter
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindi oh good, i was worried that you were thinking specifically of me!
@philiphunt-bull5817
5 ай бұрын
Man, I thought you were talking about me!
@TulipsinAntartica
5 ай бұрын
0:36 Hah, jokes on you, my sleep cycle is always destroyed
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Gasp!
@thetageist
5 ай бұрын
Don't do that. '^_^
@mortsllaf
5 ай бұрын
@@thetageist No ^_^
@lemiru
5 ай бұрын
Hmm, then maybe it would actually fix your sleep schedule?
@funguy398
5 ай бұрын
Did a solo gamejam last month, with absolutely 0 experience in a godot. Finished in time and got 13 (or 19) place out of 50. Just pick a godot and reduce the scope of your game to a fun level.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Impressive! :D
@infiniteraide1642
3 ай бұрын
May I know what game that is? I'd like to try it out!
@buzzlightyearpfp7641
5 ай бұрын
that ending part was super real game jam games that are like 'yeah the stupid loser judges didnt understand my vision so im gonna make this into a real game to rub it in their face and then take months to deliver nothing'
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
exactly. :)
@alu2901
5 ай бұрын
I mean, when I see people take their Game Jam games and make them into real games I usually think that the dev liked the idea and just wanted to expand on it, rather than just expanding it out of spite.
@JBRedux
5 ай бұрын
@@alu2901Yeah, and that logic totally makes sense. If you're making a game jam game and you happen to stumble onto a really good core concept, why not expand on it?
@jeremiahrosa1329
Ай бұрын
One if the main games I’m working on, is one that I got the idea from in a jam. Definitely suffered to scope creep tho.
@jackunvailable
5 ай бұрын
This video would've been better with multiple endings, a skill tree, a secret unlockable boss, 60 more levels and 2 more playable characters but I'm sure those will come in the full version, right?
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Yup. update 1.01. I promise.
@EdKolis
5 ай бұрын
Rawr! I'm the secret unlockable dromeosaurus boss! And if you're not careful, I might just eat YOU!
@s-viper1462
5 ай бұрын
These vids are so helpful. I am going to make games that are horrible and then call them Triple A quality, which will be technically right.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
ha. good one.
@gregvs.theworld451
5 ай бұрын
You want to make Tripe A games? Might a I suggest a game where players need to buy a 30$ battle pass just to unlock core features of the game to make it playable in the first place?
@EdKolis
5 ай бұрын
And the list of mandatory DLCs will grow from time to time! And every so often one will be banned or unbanned! Oh wait, there's already an online version of Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh, isn't there?
@dynogamergurl
5 ай бұрын
Genius, lemme join in and help😂
@Caitemis
5 ай бұрын
The fact that this appeared in my feed 2 days before the deadline of a hack jam I’m in is certainly fate
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
destiny has smiled upon us. :)
@soninhodev7851
5 ай бұрын
i love how the last third of the video went... its exactly what happens in game jams! (i guess so is the entire rest of the video, but that part was the one that made me laugh!)
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
I was struggling to figure out what to include in the script, and then I was like, oh... yeah... I can just be meta and say I ran out of time. lol
@dominikrni
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindiis it still okay to make something into a full game in some situations?
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
@@dominikrni of course. Especially if the game jam game is actually good. There are many game jam games that have become successful that started out as a little game made for a game jam. Such as Baba is You. I was just playing on the trope that often people think it will be their game jam game that can do that next, which typically isn't the case. But still possible. :)
@billmore6486
5 ай бұрын
For the longest time "in the end" was a motivational song for me. Wasnt till recently someone told me how weird that was
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
lol. The irony fueled you....
@GiornoGiovannaGangstar
5 ай бұрын
i like to believe that "in the end nothing matters, so why worry about things no one else cares about? Care about the stuff you want, and everything else won't matter."
@jaredjones6570
5 ай бұрын
It's not a motivational song? It seems motivational if you are too worried about how much something matters and are paralyzed with the complexity of the matter... Then it's inspiring to hear that nothing really matters in the end. Because if it isn't as important as you're making it seem, then maybe you don't need to get so worked up for nothing. Then you can just accomplish whatever you set out to do and stop worrying about whether or not you can do it. Because nothing really matters in the end...
@wellingtonribeiro847
4 ай бұрын
@jaredjones6570 If you are only reading this single line of the song,maybe. But in full context, he is saying that despite his efforts, it didn't work out. Not very motivational...
@chris_devlog
5 ай бұрын
The way to fail a gamejam is to give up or not sign up in the first place! I love gamejams and they're just a great way to make something.. anything with a deadline you don't set for yourself. I've learned so much and met some great people through gamejams. Great video! Glad I found your channel you make fun vids!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
I'm always impressed by how much I learn each time I do a game jam, it's really next level.
@ascriptmaster
5 ай бұрын
But as the video says, if you never try you'll arguably never actually fail! So just sign up and then give up immediately
@DataPotato
5 ай бұрын
I just joined a jam called the isou jam which is a sorta sillly title, I have no idea how to pronounce it, but anyway hopefully I will be able to apply these tactics there. Especially the asking the host to submit late one, i'm sure they love that. My favorite joke was the "The purpose of game jams is to help you fail more often", very good :)
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
yeah that sounds like a really stupid name for a jam, I don't know what you where thinking signing up for that one. :/
@PhonyLyzard
5 ай бұрын
Nothing better than a channel that gives me all the wrong information.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
I'm here for you....
@superfunink8508
5 ай бұрын
As a game design major this also applies to homework assignments where I have to make video games.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
that doesn't sound like homework.... ;)
@goshator
5 ай бұрын
Haha yeah. I'm not a game design major but we had a programming homework one time to make something with some stats like in an RPG and I decided to make an entire bloody Persona fangame. Ended up having to change it to a single screen of Earthbound-style random battles
@prfctstrm
5 ай бұрын
Hello fellow gamedev student
@superfunink8508
5 ай бұрын
@@prfctstrm Hello
@Mike-vy9ow
5 ай бұрын
Finally I understand the concept of game jams. Thanks for clarifying.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Happy I could help... or not help? 0.0
@aaaa-h3u
5 ай бұрын
theyre tasty
@nickleslicka
5 ай бұрын
I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE CALLED OUT IN MY LIFE
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Take that. and that!
@vulduv
5 ай бұрын
"I know you clicked on this video expecting me to just talk about scope creep the whole time." How the fug, did... you? ..... Impressive I must say...
@thetageist
5 ай бұрын
"There's nothing on my mind." Artindi is no thoughts, head empty. Only watermelon.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
watermelons every day. ah day ere day.
@zixvirzjghamn737
5 ай бұрын
2:24 I came into this video expecting a slimekeep reference, and still laughed when I realised he was dissing slimekeep
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
I actually have no idea what slimekeep is, but yes. this was indeed targeted at slimekeep. ;)
@HeroBot930
4 ай бұрын
Loving this series! It feels like the game dev equivalent of the channel "Terrible Writing Advice."
@topshelftopshelf
5 ай бұрын
I personally think this video is good enough to make it into a feature length film and try to make it big on Steam, I mean Hollywood
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Oh nice! I might do that! :D
@carminewhite8786
5 ай бұрын
This might help with the jam, thanks :) Looking forward to how it goes
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
oh you betcha! :D
@winteriris13
2 ай бұрын
another good idea i haven't seen talked about is reading the rules!! understanding what the game jam is actually about will only hurt your creative juices from flowing!! and if you submit something that doesn't follow guidelines, then thats on the organizers for trying to keep you from winning. you should always ignore the prompts and start your game a week early to get a leg up on the competition
@disappointedcreeper
5 ай бұрын
can't wait for you to make the documentary :3
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
in the works, should be coming out in just a few weeks. I promise.
@PabloTheDinamic
5 ай бұрын
I love how 1/170 of this video is a Linkin Park reference. Every video ever should have at least that amount of it.
@ctilt
5 ай бұрын
I love this series, and I think it’s really helpful as I’m getting into game development! Thank you so much for making this series, and you’re amazing!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Glad it can help. And glad to hear you are giving game dev'ing a try! :D
@RandomizedYoutuber012
5 ай бұрын
I actually made a game that took me a week to make with all your guides to help me Thanks for all the helpful advice My friends hated it☺️
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
perfect! :D Let the hate flow through you...
@makisprites
5 ай бұрын
So did you succeed?... at failing?
@RandomizedYoutuber012
5 ай бұрын
@@makisprites *TASK WAS FAILED SUCCESSFULLY*
@valet_noir
5 ай бұрын
"trust your internet connection" feels a bit too real from you 🤣🤣🤣
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
shhh... :)
@Bonasomnium
5 ай бұрын
I joined a 1 hour game jam. 5 hours later (because its not serious) I made a really cool game I'm proud of. You'd be surprised what you can do in such short time. Keep going
@humman007
5 ай бұрын
If you do something, anything in this two days, it isn't fail, knowledge for this short days may by usefully in next projects
@hagaygiller9352
5 ай бұрын
Reminds me of my first Ludum Dare entry back in 2011: Trying to make a point and click adventure game from scratch in 72 hours, we spent 2 days on making a simple engine then tried to cram in everything at the last second. We then decided to finish the game one day when we have the time. 13 years later we still think about it randomly every once in a while
@ill-FatedStudios
5 ай бұрын
Perfect, just what I needed 5 days before the NGJ jam! I will follow your instructions, wish me luck!
@MaxwellRomig
5 ай бұрын
This is the best channel for under five min videos
@Sam-Pound
5 ай бұрын
Yo, just failed my first GameJam! Thanks!
@yt_n-c0de-r
5 ай бұрын
This hits hard... It's funny, because it's true. ... I still felt it deep, DEEP down. Hitting hard!
@ctilt
5 ай бұрын
Could you make a fighting game one? I really love your series and think it’d be really helpful (and funny) if you made one since I’m trying to get into serious game development and I love fighting games. Thanks for reading this, and you’re amazing!
@EdKolis
5 ай бұрын
Step 1: Try to make a Smash Bros clone Step 2: Fail Step 3: Make an MMORPG instead, it's way easier 😂
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
you are not the first, and eventually I will, but the order I make the episodes is mostly by what's popular. So we will see how soon. :)
@DataPotato
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindi Maybe a community poll?
@mrpekoni
5 ай бұрын
A fun episode could be one about doing everything yourself, like I mean everything. Who needs free 3D models from the internet or free tilemap packs to kickstart your game off. How could it possibly be unique then? Obviously you must do all the art, music, programming and playtesting to assure that you maintain your absolute game direction. You wouldn't want other people with unique ideas to "contribute" to the project because your very important game direction would be lost!
@Cuprite1024
5 ай бұрын
As someone who just finished a game jam game about a week or two ago... yeah... especially the parts about destroying your sleep schedule. Lol. (Tho I actually don't think I did all that bad with mine tbh, but I definitely *do* have a lot of things to fix up. Mostly just QoL stuff)
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
yeah, Qol stuff can go a long way! :D
@TryingCode
4 ай бұрын
I never thought of it that way before! Can't wait to fail my next jam!
@SuperStarStudiosPlush
5 ай бұрын
Alright, very helpful! I’ve never been in a game jam, but it looks fun! I’ll look out for upcoming ones! :D
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
It's a really great way to learn more about game development, because it forces you do do everything, I recommend for sure! :D
@StarMighty.
5 ай бұрын
Give me the feature length film! I want it! now! (I'm glad to be 50% of the good comments) You better don't forget about it!
@black_lemon5258
Ай бұрын
Using an idea, especially one you really like, that you made before the game jam and trying to make it fit the theme is another common way to fail. That or making the project file before the date instead of collecting basic scripts/plugins. Just ignore the ‘Don’t start early’ signs on the rules ^^ (I’m actually surprised at how often people must do this to have it featured lol)
@TiaKatt
5 ай бұрын
I think I have the opposite issue with scope. I do just fine with the small scope of game jams. I absolutely love the Ludum Dare Compo. Really helps me focus. The problem is then taking my little game jam project (which might even rank reasonably well in a category or 2) and moving it past that. For me they all pretty much just stay little game jam projects, and it's not like these are among the larger scope game jam projects in the first place - there are some *really* impressive jammers out there. They mostly do what I had intended them to for purposes of the jam itself, and I find it tough to find a place to take them from there.
@Pokemon-Master
3 ай бұрын
This feels a bit like CGP Grey… I LIKE IT! 👏
@Taro4012ITG
5 ай бұрын
1:13-1:32 sequence made me smile a lot
@KryyssTV
5 ай бұрын
Not sure what's worse, failing at a regular game jam or failing the Epic Megajam where you have months to prep and a week to develop...
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
from an outside perspective I wanna say the megajam. lol.
@EdKolis
5 ай бұрын
If in a regular jam you don't have any time to prep then definitely it's worse to fail when you actually do have time. I dunno, I've only done the 7 Day Roguelike Challenge which does allow prep time, and I've succeeded a few times and failed a few times, usually due to not having enough free time that week but the first time I bit off more than I can chew. Oh yeah, then the second time I scaled way back and made something that's arguably a puzzle game and not a roguelike but no one noticed so yay I guess?
@KryyssTV
5 ай бұрын
@@EdKolis To be fair rogue-likes are deceptvely complicated to get right. I'm currently in pre-production for the genre as I'm going to do several with each building upon the systems of the last (so I don't end up biting off more than I can chew with one big project) so I'd say that unless someone has prior experience it's not really a game-jammable (?) genre. It's very easy to end up with it just being a basic dungeon crawler, puzzler or card game.
@enderfire3379
5 ай бұрын
I signed up for one once. Then i learned the lesson that ADHD, Lack of coding skills, And limited time schedule do not mix well. In short: i didnt do shit
@The-E-Base
5 ай бұрын
dang. I've already been bound to succeed at failure from the start. Guess I came very prepared for all this.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
a natural. 0.0
@The-E-Base
5 ай бұрын
@@Artindi a very unfortunate natural indeed.
@ThinkWithGames
5 ай бұрын
Just in time for the Ludum Dare game jam, good luck everyone!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
completely by accident. (like really, I didn't know Ludum Dare was going down this weekend till just a few days ago. lol)
@Kyun9432
5 ай бұрын
I absolutely agree! You should quit your day-job and make this into a full 2 hour film! It will succeed. Add all kinds of things you have planned to the script and make sure the script does things that has never done before!
@Zytrome
5 ай бұрын
The ending was genius
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
This comment was genius
@Blackholefourspam
5 ай бұрын
It’s okay… I guess.
@szabiTM
3 ай бұрын
if the reward aint moneys, i am eating the game jam
@robotzr.8348
5 ай бұрын
Best video on KZitem...
@mz_eth
5 ай бұрын
God damn it, that scoop creep call out 😡
@Enbynails
4 ай бұрын
Everyone knows working on a creative project is best approached while in a state of half-asleep, caffeine-fueled delirium.
@PokemonJacob-vi2li
5 ай бұрын
Great video! keep going! I just started watching this series, and it's one of the most fun series I have watched in a while! The one complaint I have is that the video's are quite short, but that's not a huge complaint since you're not the only youtuber I watch. (Is saying it's too short a complaint or compliment?)
@Zakru
4 ай бұрын
"The best way to fail is to never try" applies ESPECIALLY well in game jams. If you're a new game dev and want to fail at trying out a concept, ALWAYS spend the time to create a polished version of your game. NEVER try out how different mechanics would work in the limited and horribly claustrophobic scope of a game jam.
@afriendlyfox
5 ай бұрын
I don't mind wasting some time just listening to you, I like your voice, so I guess that wasn't a waste
@Vubuwu
5 ай бұрын
Thank you for video
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Thank you for comment
@gauracappelletti3893
Ай бұрын
1:28 too real
@alexmcfly31415
5 ай бұрын
One more big thing: Get a team. It's way harder to get de-motivated and say "nah, this makes no sense" when there's someone else relying on you.
@elijahloiacono
5 ай бұрын
I saw your ISOU Game jam on the discord but if I'm bein honest, I don't know what game jams are or how they work and came here to find out! Unfortunately I learned nothing and failed to learn how a game jam works.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
A game jam is a challenge to make a game in a limited amount of time, usually 2 days but mine is a week. Often there is a theme or other stipulations. The idea being that limitations foster creativity. Game jams are useful because they force you to focus on the most important aspects of game development and help you learn new skills and gain new knowledge, they can he very helpful for indie devs learning development and have often cased some great games to be made, even some somewhat famous games started out as a fame jam game such as Baba Is You. TLDR: game jams are a challenge to make a complete game in only a few days.
@OtakuKrap
5 ай бұрын
Ironically updating software was a big reason I failed and decided to never do game jams again
@NoomStuff
5 ай бұрын
Will be using all of this for ISOU
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
excellent! The timing is perfect! :D
@joesak1997
5 ай бұрын
If only there was an upcoming game jam I could put all these failure practices to use in in order to fail!!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
if only there was one that was starting like. in like 14 hours from now. 0.0
@drakewahl7609
5 ай бұрын
I tried doing a gamejam once and just kinda got busy with school and couldnt really find time to work on it. I definately want to join and complete one some day.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
it's super worth it if you can stick to it. :)
@ellotheearthling
5 ай бұрын
PLEASE do how to fail at rhythm games
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
du du du du I du du will du du du eve du du du tualy du du du.
@NickShvelidze
5 ай бұрын
The best way to fail is to go to an in person game jam and realize you don't know anyone there and end up working alone when everyone else is in a team.
@passthedonuts
5 ай бұрын
you are never a waste of time
@compositeboson123
5 ай бұрын
or you could just eat the thing
@KettLovahr
5 ай бұрын
Just in time for Ludum Dare 55 huh?
@Davian2073
5 ай бұрын
Funnily enough, a GameDev I know already does all of this, and won several Game Jams xD
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
SEE! It works.... 0.0
@TheWorstestPro
5 ай бұрын
I've been watching your videos for a while now and I only just realised that you don't have 500 thousand subscribers, surely this is an error.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
What?! I don't?! 0.0
@ballom29
5 ай бұрын
You forgot an important point : missing the point of the jam "sure that's aa fine game you've made there..but what does it had to do with the jam's theme ?"
@TiaKatt
5 ай бұрын
It's really okay though! Ludum Dare, for example, makes it clear that while it'll hit your scoring from other participants, it's better to submit a game that doesn't really fit the theme if that's the idea that *really* hit you and you're having more trouble with something that tightly fits the theme, since the primary purpose of having a theme in the first place is to combat the Blank Page problem. The idea is to have fun making and sharing games, and if that means a few people go off-theme here or there, so be it.
@yemree13
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tutorial! I will definitely use these tips in the ISOU Game Jam!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
oh you bettah! :)
@Taro4012ITG
5 ай бұрын
OF COURSE YOU PUT THE WATERMELON IN AGAIN LOL
@Yipper64
5 ай бұрын
im guilty of making basic game mechanics from scratch for a game jam. Its what ive done literally *every single time.* I should really just make a few genre templates so I can have something workable to start with.
@Banarnar-og5eo
5 ай бұрын
the ending gag fooled me for a moment
@HoloTheDrunk
5 ай бұрын
I always make sure to pick the hardest tech stack I know the least about and I never produce anything. A mystery.
@ziep7457
5 ай бұрын
I wonder if Artindi will ever host a game jam.....hmmm surely..... No..... he wouldnt :0
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
probably not... but now that you mention it.... maybe one day. :)
@slackamacgaming6721
5 ай бұрын
Oohhhh...so THAT'S what a game jam is...man I've been wondering....i thought it was like game juice...just ya know, the jelly version or something 🤣🤣🤣
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
it's that game juice, but extra thick!
@darkrozen4110
5 ай бұрын
What's the best way to fail at strawberry jams?
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
have it be chunky, because everyone loves the feel of a soggy slug of a strawberry slice slithering down your throat.
@slavsquatsuperstar
5 ай бұрын
You should definitely make your scope video 1 hour long :P
@erniebeasley8521
5 ай бұрын
Just joined one, ready to fail
@Mikewee777
5 ай бұрын
> " It is ok, I guess " 02:15
@AdamMooreGameDev
5 ай бұрын
Nailed it.
@cirecrux
5 ай бұрын
I’m so ready to fail!
@doodledude2d295
5 ай бұрын
why do I find it so HARD for me to finish a project that needs more time then a day :(
@RahulABhola
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for this informative tutorial! P.s. could you do shooter games next?
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Yup, I think that's next on the list. :)
@YoungDigitalInteractive
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for posting this right before I'm about to spend all weekend working on a game jam. Haha. Time to maybe rethink some of my plans... JK
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
good luck! :D
@theConcernedWyvern
4 ай бұрын
Jokes on you, caffeine doesn't even work on me!
@high55550
5 ай бұрын
The way to win any game jam is to send malware.
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
Not so sure about win... but but maybe it's subjective.
@zandraxofnebulon
5 ай бұрын
I love how you can reverse engineer good advice from these videos by doing the opposite of whatever they say
@snes90
5 ай бұрын
At the time of writing this comment, Ludum Dare 55 is in three hours. Let the failure commence!!
@Artindi
5 ай бұрын
yeah, the timing was a happy accident. :) hopefully the video helps... or doesn't help... 0.0
@TiaKatt
5 ай бұрын
Ah, the first quarter LD I miss most years because it so often coincides with when I'm doing overtime at the tax office and taking no days off for weekends. I forgot about it entirely this year, not that, again, I could have participated anyway. At least there's the fall one I can easily do!
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