The weak pullout game angle would've been SO EASY and they would hardly have to change anything. Simon could've pulled out too late and started freaking out but refused to explain why, then Daphne could've asked someone and confronted him and the fight could proceed the way it does in the show, except it would make 1000 times more sense. THEN they could eventually talk through their issues and make up. Also if they HAD to have that scene, they should've at least shown Daphne having to prove that he can actually trust her.
@Me-vn3gz
3 жыл бұрын
Or she could’ve said that she wanted to keep going and he’s like I can’t and she would be like why? And then have the same fight they had in the show. Honestly there were many ways to go about it without making light of r*pe.
@BriarPatchNyra
3 жыл бұрын
I haven’t watched this show and read one article and came up with this exact scenario. I messaged a friend within minutes of reading said article and said “why didn’t they just have him get really “into it” and not pull out in time?” The fact I could come up with that in that amount of time and with that little effort and, ya know, not being a paid professional writer, shows how ABSURD it is they couldn’t do it.
@annettecarter9393
3 жыл бұрын
I think the whole point was to show her anger at being deceived. He was wrong and she was wrong. That's life usually.
@CancelHappiness
2 жыл бұрын
@@annettecarter9393 uh...... no. Him lying in no way justifies her literally raping him. It was an absolutely disgusting scene in a god awful show
@ashy1587
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine the power this show could have had if they had acknowledged the rape of a black man by a white woman, and allowed him to express hurt over his trauma.
@wandanemer2630
3 жыл бұрын
Oh my god yes!
@hochhinauspodcast514
3 жыл бұрын
Hell so true!
@incognitodaily956
3 жыл бұрын
Always making it about race. STFU
@ashy1587
3 жыл бұрын
@@incognitodaily956 Just trying to express compassion for others whose struggles often go unseen. Have a beautiful day ❤️
@keishajones3830
2 жыл бұрын
🎯
@the8thsquare
3 жыл бұрын
If the roles were reversed, I'm convinced Bridgerton would never have gotten made.
@miffygirly
3 жыл бұрын
THIS
@aikikaname6508
3 жыл бұрын
GoT made Daenarys’ treatment WORSE in the book as well as the Jaime/Cersei debacle, Rome had Octavias family and friends force her into sleeping with men against her will even though historically she actually asked Caesar for a love match and he gave it to her. And let’s not start on 50 shades and the whole raped Oegaverse trash that exists.
@swaroop2518
3 жыл бұрын
True man
@swaroop2518
3 жыл бұрын
@@aikikaname6508 yes but we hate those characters and scenes and does not make those rapists to be seen as heroes, but in this movie, the wife is clearly shown as innocent and victims side of betrayal, and not even a once mentioned as bad or wrong.
@urextraaverageweirdo6124
3 жыл бұрын
Or maybe not cuz Netflix did streamed 365 days and Cuties
@mariapetre818
3 жыл бұрын
Finally someone that speaks about this. As a person that doesn’t want kids, that scene was so disturbing.
@azizabrown
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who DOES want kids, that scene was hard to watch! It was disgusting the way she stood up and looked at him like “hmm yeah what now” with that little smirk. It was horrid
@mahi93162
3 жыл бұрын
@Alize Farhin the thing is rape scenes for women are take more seriously compared to men. I saw people saying he could've just pushed her off cause he's bigger and stronger than her, basically blaming him. And in real life, men are way less likely to be taken seriously when they say they've been raped.
@mahi93162
3 жыл бұрын
@Alize Farhin it's true. When men speak up, no one believes them. Yes women have it hard, I'm not denying that. But men are never believed, people say that they should've enjoyed it which is disgusting. Have you done research on this? In tv shows and movies, there are rarely ever scenes like this towards women now , and if there are, then they show it in a negative way. But this scene wasn't shown in a negative way, they didn't make Daphne face any consequences.
@_lm_152
3 жыл бұрын
@Alize Farhin First of all, in this case, it is Simon who is being raped (definitely in a certain way) so of course we are talking now about him, he, the male person is being taken advantage of. But I agree, in every situation, both genders need to give consent, and if they do not (regardless their gender), it is considered as rape. However, I disagree when you say that people would make less drama when the roles would be reserved. I actually think people would make more of a fuss of it. The fight against sexual abuse of women is far from over but it is more discussed and more highlighted than sexual abuse of men. To be clear, I’m not saying the problem is solved, it sadly is, very much a problem nowadays (and indeed, mostly women are victims of sexual abuse/harassment). HOWEVER, cases of sexual abuse of men are more likely to be disregarded because of societies’ view on men. Men who are a victim of sexual abuse are generally seen as “weak”, and this is a huge problem in my opinion. Just be careful when when saying such things because those are delicate matters.
@BriarPatchNyra
3 жыл бұрын
@Alize Farhin please stop commenting on this
@garfieldrix1621
3 жыл бұрын
The excuse I gave that scene was, "Well, it's a historical romance. People probably didn't think it was a big deal, and society might think it was ridiculous for a man to be dominated by a woman and intentionally avoid making kids." But the thing is, the series is catered to a modern audience. This thing was never, is never, and should never be okay.
@-autumnfeelings
3 жыл бұрын
I agree and when I see people under video about them saying "I want love like theirs" one can see that it's really bad to show it in the show and show it as romantic
@lucyd57
3 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! And what made it worse is that they made it seem as though HE was the bad guy. He was literally BEGGING her to stop and she didn't. They probably thought she was being a strong woman but no...
@wasitjustadream2345
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! She starts manipulating him. That made me so mad
@vibez2806
Жыл бұрын
@wasitjustadream2345 while also claiming that he lied to her when he didn't. He said that he could not give her kids, she assumed that reason for this is biological instead of a vow.
@miffygirly
3 жыл бұрын
That specific scene made me cry so much especially when his stutter came back.
@onyx_77777
3 жыл бұрын
it really disgusted me. i just continued watching to see if she realizes wat she has done but i was disappointed
@_lm_152
3 жыл бұрын
If they just talked about it... But yes, it is TV and we need “drama” but this was definitely not it. I just can’t handle the fact that most people disregard this and the producers did a very very very very (this is still an understatement) poor job.
@Justbuiltthisway
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting video, but I would go even further than that. There are people who genuinely don't want kids and are in a happy relationship. I agree that Simon's reason for not wanting kids is rather sad and he has a lot of issues with his dad to work through, but why does he have to change? Why is the only answer to their dilemma having a kid, completely overriding his wishes? Why can't Daphne change her mind and learn to love a life without having her own children? Or if she doesn't want to be childfree, why don't they split up? I know this is supposed to be set in a different era, but the book and show were made in the 21st century and they took liberties with all kinds of things, so why can't we have a happy childfree couple for once? Reproductive coercion is still a thing today, I hear many stories where people think it's ok to force someone to have a kid they don't want. It pains me that there are no repercussions for this on the show and hardly anyone acknowledges that Simon's wish to be childfree is valid and should be respected.
@brodiehawkes2599
3 жыл бұрын
Yes! There's an idea that Daphne is justified in her actions because she's on the right side of the issue. That there is something inherently wrong with not wanting to have family. I agree they never should have gotten married. Daphne guilted him into marring her in the first place. So if they did marry it should have been a separate life like the show addressed some couples had in the scene when Daphne when to the party with other married women.
@lesley-annfenwick
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@dlcc___x
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly!! The thing is, additionally, that regardless to his lie she DID agree to be with him with the knowledge they wouldn't be having children, regardless for the reasoning she had already decided being with him wasn't something she was willing to sacrifice, having children was.... only to turn back on her promise and try to force him as a means to prove a point with the full intent of betraying him.
@ollieofftheboat
3 жыл бұрын
Daphne's anger was at Simon lying to her, not that he didn't want a family for whatever his reasons where. Can't have children, and won't have children are two completely different things. He could have ruined her life because he didn't want to let her go, but he couldn't bring himself to be completely honest with her until they were already married. She agreed to marry him despite losing the chance for a family under false pretenses, and while I feel really gross about what she did, I don't think Simon was anywhere near in the right.
@ollieofftheboat
3 жыл бұрын
@@Justbuiltthisway Nowhere did I say Simon lying gave her the permission to rape him, it was disgusting. His objection to marrying her was not that he didn't want to, it's that he didn't want to trap her into a life without children. She was okay with living a life with just him, having their family be just the two or them a few dog, when she thought he COULDN'T have children, not that he wouldn't have any. That is a fundamental difference, one that if she'd known it she probably would not have married him. And I don't agree with this notion that Simon simply didn't want children. He was scared to have children, the last few episodes confirmed that. He loves children, and children love him, but he didn't believe he knew how to be a father because he never had one. That, combined with his vendetta against his own father, led Simon to take children off the table entirely, despite that not being what HE wanted. They should have rewritten that confrontation instead of following the books, but all in all they're still BOTH wrong.
@mishynaofficial
3 жыл бұрын
Huh. I thought Daphne is so uneducated on sex that she doesn't know about rape. She never knew that taking someone's seeds unwillingly is bad. And i guess, she wanted to make sure he's capable of insemination. Still these excuses don't make great show because Daphne had no consequences whatsoever.
@lpm894
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, they lose a huge opportunity on this. She facing consequences and realizing what she did... I mean... That had potential to show why sexual education is important and make it in a taboo is just worse.
@dlcc___x
3 жыл бұрын
I would agree had she not acknowledged it immediately afterward (something about him catching her off guard and betraying her when she was most vulnerable so she returned the favor, I can't remember her words precisely), as in, she knew what she did wasn't okay. I think I would've made her ask, maybe try to coerce it out of him and gotten him to confess (while in the moment). Also, bare minimum, but have apologized.
@andreamonge9477
3 жыл бұрын
I think the problem isn't what Daphne did or did not do / know at this point because even though I believe it's non-consensual sex, it seems super conflicting among the viewers. At this point, I think the issue is how the showrunners decided to (not) address the scene : no trigger warning at the beginning, no resources at the end, just pretending like it did not happen and never talking about it and ignoring how it can be triggering for so many people (men and women). In interviews, they even justified it as "sexual education" and "sexual empowerment".
@Mommy887
3 жыл бұрын
Daphne knew what she did was wrong
@dlcc___x
3 жыл бұрын
Andrea Monge agreed, I think the scene could've been left in and actually even played into that "sex education" aspect had they acknowledged it in the show and in the plot, had Daphne apologized and expressed she hadn't realized the weight of her actions, w/e, it could've been worked out and Simon and she could've continued and we'd know that they handled it healthily and leaving space for his feelings about the matter
@revamahajan4395
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly!!! Simon didn’t need to be assaulted to heal from his trauma!!! I literally looked up a video about this topic because I hoped I was not the only one who thought this! How I’m coping with it: Daphne: *enters* Me: ugh *browses phone for entire scene* My heart sinks a little whenever she’s onscreen and I am definitely emotionally checked out of their relationship Thank you for making such an eloquent rant about this. I didn’t know you before this video, but I subscribed after it!
@shannonclark8313
3 жыл бұрын
Like immediately she goes into you betrayed me! you betrayed me in our wedding bed! Like she didn’t just do the exact thing
@kathryngreen8665
3 жыл бұрын
I am going to give my unpopular opinion, but I am glad they didn't just write this scene out of the show. Daphne was so oblivious to what it meant when Simon said he couldn't have kids, she didn't even understand what sex was in the books. She was raised in a time and place where a woman's job and reason for living was to have kids (provide heirs), it was common for women to be forced into marriages and be sexually assaulted by there husbands. This scene shows that it goes both ways. Even in a society where men ruled a woman can still cause horrible abuse towards their husbands. I feel that if they wrote this scene out of the show it would be censoring the abuse men can and do receive. I do agree with you though, they needed a episode/scene that showed Daphne understanding what she did wrong and apologizing for it. Simon not dealing with his emotions though and not talking to anyone about his trauma is very accurate for the time period as well. Men could not been seen to be weak to women, so he couldn't talk to anyone about the pain he was suffering. I am glad they left the scene in, but agree that aftermath should have been dealt with better instead of just passed over and forgotten by the characters.
@lpm894
3 жыл бұрын
Exact. They lose a huge opportunity in showing the importance in sexual education and that the mens can be a victim of rape and is hard, traumatic as it is to womens.
@dlcc___x
3 жыл бұрын
Yup! There was a moment when she seemed to be going in that direction and instead of apologizing she simply used his trauma as almost leverage toward her main goal rather than internalizing it and respecting his wishes (which she had already agreed to before marrying him)
@andreamonge9477
3 жыл бұрын
I agree with the role that scene plays on the whole thing (even though I firmly believe it was non-consensual sex and I think it could have been changed and achieving the same goals). At this point, I think the issue is how the showrunners dealt with the scene : no trigger warning at the beginning, no resources at the end, no follow-up discussion between the characters regarding that event and just overall pretending like it did not happen and everything was OK. When asked about this scene in interviews, the showrunners and the actress did not acknowledge the controversy of the scene and depicted it as "sexual education/ empowerment". Even if some (a lot) viewers do not think it is sexual assault, for others watching such scene is extremely difficult and it is, in my opinion, unacceptable and insensitive in 2021 from the showrunners to not have dealt with this scene better!
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
@@lpm894 for real. This scene really shows how uneducated people are about sex and there are double standards.
@saeedvazirian
Жыл бұрын
@@lpm894 Daphne should be raped in return, let's see how you'll like that.
@Bubbychan
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. Good catch on the stutter - that makes the scene all the more heartbreaking. As a survivor of sexual abuse inside of a committed relationship, I watched that scene in complete shock and horror. I don’t think anyone who has experienced sexual violence in that context could see this scene as anything but what it was: assault. I was taken completely off guard and kept wondering afterwards why the writers didn’t include any trigger warnings. Also, even if Daphne did not know what rape was, she certainly knew what she did was taking advantage of a vulnerable situation. Her exact words: You took advantage. You seized an opportunity, so I did the very same. Likewise, while this is a period drama, it certainly is not historically accurate. We could stand to either 1. Take that scene out and have them fight verbally about the situation or 2. Address the long-standing and very real repercussions of sexual violence in the context of a relationship. It seems like the writers forgot that sexual assault can happen both to men and to those in a relationship. There were many other issues with this show, including ableism, and I think the author and screenwriters need to acknowledge these issues
@lesley-annfenwick
3 жыл бұрын
Why was it necessary to include a rape scene, just why.
@issacblevins42
3 жыл бұрын
They used it as basically an empowerment moment.
@thetillerwiller4696
3 жыл бұрын
@@issacblevins42 right?! With that dumb ass music in the background
@bionicwoman9884
2 жыл бұрын
The book I guess
@AbigailThinks
3 жыл бұрын
This scene was SO uncomfortable for me, and Daphne totally lost all the brownie points for me here, regardless of Simon's vow.
@emilygoneferal
3 жыл бұрын
it pisses me off so much because i absolutely loved watching daphne and simon fall in love but... that fucking scene. i want to carry on watching and rooting for them but i really don't want to support writers who clearly don't understand the extremity of this scene
@kristinaw3185
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I totally agree how wrong it is that they ignored the fact that it indeed was RAPE. The ending seemed too perfect because it concluded without them even talking about their issues. Maybe season 2 can deal with and ACTUALLY try to resolve between them the trauma she caused Simon and how he lied to Daphne.
@evahorst5397
3 жыл бұрын
sadly i don’t think that will happen. it’s been released that in season 2 they’re shifting focus onto anthony and the other bridgertons.
@casperharderrasmussen5007
3 жыл бұрын
I actually like your version of the shows ending better then the real one. Why are you not a scriptwriter?
@diogocasstro
3 жыл бұрын
*I agree with this person*
@Bkhaveityouway
3 жыл бұрын
I agree
@fredskull1618
3 жыл бұрын
I’m not a fan of when storytellers decide that a show needs some edge, they throw in a r*pe scene. The fact that the two partners were married and the assault was woman-on-man and it was unaddressed makes it a double standard. I’m more put off by the fact that the author clearly doesn’t see that scene as assault and sees Daphne as merely “complicated.” I understand that the story’s universe is not one that reflects our reality, but that doesn’t give them carte blanche to be irresponsible with such a sensitive topic. When Sansa is assaulted by Ramsey in Game of Thrones, I knew many people who stopped watching because of how flippant the show was about r*pe. I appreciate and agree with your perspective.
@DavidGFalzarano
3 жыл бұрын
Thank god there are reasonable people like you out there. Thank you for making this video. As someone who has experienced this when I was younger, nothing is more triggering than someone justifying it cause it's the woman doing the act. Also, I'm glad how you pointed out how wrong it is to use the "he lied" as an excuse. NEVER would ANYONE say "well the girl lied about being baron so I RAPED her" jesus even typing that makes me wanna vomit. So disappointed with this show..
@veliana7958
3 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry you went through something so horrible.
@theforgetfulnugget8971
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry that happened...
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
That's really awful of what you went through. There should be no justification for rape, and people should stop making light of it
@dandelion1469
3 жыл бұрын
yea that rape scene was in the book and daphne was kind of like you wanted it so its actually the authors fault i think they should have left that out of the show and pretended it never happened its played off as not a big deal in the book too
@sylvia9290
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think they are a healthy couple. Sure they are romantic, but they don't actually trust each other. They are barely friends.
@nadiaborriello4012
3 жыл бұрын
i honestly would’ve preferred daphne with the prince..
@MoonLitCat
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! This scene has bothered me because as much as I enjoyed the show, that scene was just so nutty to include! Especially since they easily could’ve changed it! And then the writers and some fans have the nerve to defend it cuz “Simon deserved it” and “it wasn’t rape cuz he didn’t actually say no” like... guys that’s a very victim blaming mindset that’s sooo offensive! I don’t know maybe they will do a reshoot of that though I doubt it but thank you, cuz every article I see about this all the commenters says “it wasn’t rape.”
@MoonLitCat
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry to keep going but I actually thought they WERE going to talk about this in the last episode as you pretty much described and then I could root for them again. BUT THEY DIDNT. And the implication that Simon deserved it for “lying” and Daphne wins is so bothersome...
@AnxietyRat
3 жыл бұрын
100%. The fact that the show completely glossed over it when it could have been an educational moment about consent and marital rape... And they just didn't.
@xgise
3 жыл бұрын
Ýou can even keep the same scene, up to the point when she gets on top, but this time without the intention of making him finish, she should do it, just because she feels like it. And then, considering the novelty of it, you can see he was very aroused by her being on top, his pull out game should be weak and he should come inside of her. Then we see Daphne getting confused and betrayed because she thought he couldn't do it. And afterwards everything can continue the exact same way, without the rape
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY. That's what I thought would've happened, or at least throw her back down in missionary
@meghankelly639
3 жыл бұрын
Omg this was so well put! I absolutely loved the show but that scene made me so uncomfortable. I couldn’t even watch it. It was so unnecessary and made me so sad because Simon and Daphne are such a beautiful couple. If only they could actually TALK to each other🙄
@AmyL._orcgirl
3 жыл бұрын
They all need therapy.
@noha3875
3 жыл бұрын
Up until the very very last scene I was waiting for Daphne to apologize and tell him "it's okay, we don't have to have kids, atleast not until you're ready" or something along the lines. They completely ignored his traumatic past, his demons, his father and the fact that she RAPED HIM, and made it all about her wishes . F that!
@louiseengohang6337
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know if you're ever going to see this, I just want to know your input on this. I felt like in a way the show did address it, when at the end of the episode Whistledown says "desperate times call for desperate measures, but I would wager many would think her actions beyond the pale. Perhaps she thought it her only option, or perhaps she knows no shame. But I ask you, can the ends justify such wretched means". I think the audience is supposed to assume she's talking about Marina, but while she's saying this the footage is on Simon and especially Daphne laying in bed staring up at the sky, and it could be interpreted as her pondering on what she had done. I think it was done purposefully so that this monologue could be used for not just one aspect of the show but another aspect that they don't want to directly acknowledge due to the gravity of the situation in and of itself.
@starlitbun
3 жыл бұрын
I think the issue is more that they use that as a way to placate the audience, but you need to have legitimate consequences for the perpetrator, and the show still paints Daphne as the victim in the way the shots are composed, and how the argument takes place, and then even after wards they make up and its not really addressed all too much
@kristinabolden1562
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your passion and for putting words to everything that I have been feeling about that scene . I was loving the series until that scene- I too was heart broken, angry and disappointed. I love your insights and alternate ways of handling the situation. You should be a screenwriter. Your character development and arcs ideas are amazing. Thank You.
@carla-du1kz
3 жыл бұрын
It made me upset to watch, but I think Daphne probably doesn't know what rape is and so in her head she did nothing wrong. I hope its explored in season 2 and someone actually explains to her what was wrong with what she did. I think in her head violation is only when a man takes away a woman's innocence (like what Nigel did to her in the garden). I feel like she needs to be told what was wrong and then she can try and rebuild what she helped break.
@dgcfgvvgb6555
3 жыл бұрын
Doesn't excuse her actions, but it is a factor
@yashminjamal6517
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think you need to really know what rape is to not do it She knew she was hurting him and taking advantage of him, that he was beggin for her stop with almost tears so I think that would be enough for a decent to stop but she didn't she wanted to hurt him And if it was the opposite no one would be making excuse In this scene she isn't a innocent little girl like you guys want to make her out to be...she KNEW what she was doing and did it with pride.
@JST03
2 жыл бұрын
@@yashminjamal6517 exactly. Like the lying on his part was a whole other story for me entirely. You don't need to know where babies come from to stop when someone tells you to. She knew he wanted her to get off, but she chose not to bcuz she was mad he lied. Lying isn't a reason to do that to someone tho
@eventplanner461
2 жыл бұрын
@@JST03 Also I wouldn't even say he lied. In his defense, he strongly was against having kids. He made a vow not to have them. Hence him saying I can't give you children. I can't give you what you want. She took the word can't literally, but that's not what he meant and it's not her fault she misinterpreted. She could have asked him to explain himself further on why he can't have kids instead of forcing herself on him.
@paulas7414
3 жыл бұрын
Consent is the most important aspect of having sex. And it can be withdrawn anytime. ANYTIME. Sex is nothing you start, and then you have to go trough with it. If one of the partners says something like "wait" or looks uncomfortable, in other words: if consent is withdrawn, YOU NEED TO STOP. It's as easy as that. Contraception (how effektive or uneffective it May be) is also a part of consent. Imagine a situation where a man secretly gets rid of a condom trying to make a woman pregnant against her will. That is highly (!) immoral and sadly not yet ILLEGAL. I know, that in regency era rape in marriage was not considered a crime. But this series does not ATTEMPT TO BE HISTORICALLY ACURATE. The rape scene, and especially the way it is dealt with, is inexcusable. I am shocked.
@Book_Dragon2562
3 жыл бұрын
Actually, speaking from experience, being sabotaged into a pregnancy is not illegal. Just highly immoral on that persons part and traumatic on the others.
@paulas7414
3 жыл бұрын
@@Book_Dragon2562 oh no://sorry, i was so sure about this. I think it SHOULD be illegal. And I am very sorry that you had to experience something as immoral as this.
@omolisa3783
3 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing Daphne wasn't taught anything about consent and wasn't even sure if pulling out is a contraception method. That said, she seemed to know that what she was doing was wrong or motivated by anger, if I remember correctly. The show should have at least acknowledged that it was rape, even if it may have stemmed from ignorance on Daphne's part.
@Book_Dragon2562
3 жыл бұрын
@@paulas7414 You would think with numbers like that, and the fact it causes the same type of trauma as rape or domestic violence would make it so, but it’s not illegal. Even if it were, it would be almost impossible to prove, and by extension, to prosecute. I know because my former partner actually told me what he did.
@paulas7414
3 жыл бұрын
@@Book_Dragon2562 I did some research. (I know I should have done that before I wrote my comment.....) so apparently a man in swizerland was prosecuted for removing his condom. In Germany (where I live) the matter is still being discussed. The procedure is called „stealthing“ in German and is (as far as I get it) primarily discussed in regard to STI. Meaning that if a person gave consent to have „safer sex“, stealthing then means the sex then happened against her will. I hope that there will be more awareness about this abusive practice so that in the future courts may decide differently. This awareness could have been increased with a series as Bridgerton. But well. This discussion has at least increased MY awareness. And I will definitely try to spread awareness!
@henninggirl261
3 жыл бұрын
Okay here’s the problem. This whole show, while super eye catching, is a giant mess. You can’t sprinkle 21st century sensibilities here and there and still uphold Regency era society. First off, just have a colorblind cast and leave it. The representation is what matters. Get these super talented actors in front of audiences. Normalize it! We as an audience know actual history and can infer whatever we wish about Queen Charlotte’s history. What you CANNOT do is have throw away lines like “the king fell in love with a black woman and solved racism.” Secondly, Simon participates in, uphold, benefits from and is a part of the population that makes the social rules for Regency society. It’s a very unsympathetic position and part of the reason Mr. Darcy has never appealed to me. Tell me again how hard your life has been with every comfort and women vying for your attention because if they don’t, they can end up in very limited and desperate circumstances because they’re not people, they’re property. They’re rich male relatives can CHOOSE to stop caring for them and throw them into the streets at any time. Simon choosing to fuck with a damn debutante and then refusing to marry her is fucked up. He knows the rules. Again he participates in and actively benefits from them. Talking to her explicitly about masturbation (IF ANYONE EVEN HEARD HIM!) Following her into a garden (THIS ALONE) and then kissing her, her goose is cooked. Duel or no duel (P.S. that’s about the family’s reputation) she’s radioactive. There’s no love match with lotsa babies no matter what. So it’s either, she marries him and no kids (thinking he’s infertile) however SHE will bear the brunt of scorn for the lack of kids. Despite 1 character saying “well I thought maybe it can also be the mans fault!” Doesn’t shake down with the fact that she’s a creature of pity and ridicule NO MATTER WHAT! So it’s she’s a shameful spinster and makes it impossible for her sisters to marry well (it sucks) or she marries a man she does care for but no kids and she still faces derision. There are no good options but I fundamentally reject the idea of Daphne forces Simon to marry her. Nope! Simon did the then-social equivalent of sex without a condom. He knew the rules that apply mostly to her, not him. DON’T FUCK AROUND WITH DEBUTANTES! Now the conceit of the pull-out method is insane even in a Regency story. Science still exists even if characters are aware of it or not. So what they should’ve changed is she gets pregnant anyway because COME ON and he gets pissed. You can’t again put a 21st century spin on not having kids. If he was SOOOOO intent upon it, he should have stayed far, far away from her. He has all the power in the relationship. He just does. In the book, she gets him drunk and that’s why she’s able to rape him (and hooo boy, the author should not have had that be how she finds out his stupid plan, it’s fucked up). Again it’s the pull-out method! She was going to get pregnant! In the show, she’s just on top. He outweighs her by a buck-twenty-five. Roll over and stop the business! It’s still a messed up thing to keep in, and the writing fails spectacularly in trying to have modern moments like this, the masturbation discussion and try and bend the audience’s perspective to think Daphne’s driving the action. She has no autonomy and you can’t have it both ways.
@JessiTuck
3 жыл бұрын
I really, really like the idea of her getting pregnant and him being (maybe confused, because he thought the pullout would work?) upset and doubting her and her being confused, etc.
@TheRuthPo
3 жыл бұрын
I agree although I do actually like Mr Darcy the juxtaposition between modern and regency sensibilities causes some problems with logic. I still love it though, to be honest I didn't watch this bit because I was so bored by the sex scenes by that stage that I fast-forwarded through them to get to the good bits.
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
The fact they through in race and didn't expand on that. Leave that ish out. They made it sound like it was so easy
@JST03
2 жыл бұрын
He wanted her to get off tho and she knew that and didn't. "He should have rolled...." Like nah. He could have hurt his business doing that for one and two she should've just stopped. Simple as that.
@lucydaniel2699
3 жыл бұрын
I’ve been assaulted and that scene just,, even before they showed it I saw her determination and immediately was like no they better fucking not,, Like you could have just made it so that she maybe tested to see if he would pull out again if she tried to hold onto him and then confronted him if he did? Or the weak pullout game? I think he should still be punished by Anthony, but it’s clear that he got it wrong, it’s unjust and makes him feel even worse. He should be supported by other characters and perhaps Daphne has to tell her brother once again that he is wrong and explain exactly how she was the one causing hurt etc.
@Meliziosaa
3 жыл бұрын
I literally haven't even seen that scene as a rape scene wow
@Meliziosaa
3 жыл бұрын
@Zsuzsanna Varga Yes, exactly
@jazminencinas6802
3 жыл бұрын
I haven’t either, and I feel terrible about it. This is why we should educate ourselves and be open about this stuff. I feel like the whole plot helped to hide this scene from what it really is, because THEY don’t even teat it as rape. Daphne wasn’t educated enough to have responsible sex, and this clearly shows that.
@wednes3day
3 жыл бұрын
And then there's the books where he's *barely* conscious and very intoxicated for all of it ^^'
@Starburst514
3 жыл бұрын
@@wednes3day And his stutter comes back which shows how turamatized he was by it. Daphne even muses she doesn't feel bad about it. Gonna be honest I can't even watch the show cause I know that scene is there and I hate to throw a whole show away but its just...I wouldn't be able to enjoy it, I'd just be worrying about when it would come and 'how it was gonna happen I couldn't focus on anything else
@wednes3day
3 жыл бұрын
@@Starburst514 understandable, I've heard it's episode 6 but I doubt that'll help with things .. I wasn't planning on watching the show but I straight up had to put down the book for a few hours after that scene happened ..
@maeveh1376
3 жыл бұрын
I have a feeling that a lot of the joy from the show came from the characters, setting, imagery and the actors performance. When it came to story the writing was messy and it felt like the showrunners were clueless that they had even written an assault?!
@ixa.m9915
3 жыл бұрын
I dunt think Simon was dishonest ..his only condition b4 getting into marriage was that he doent want children..nd she got married t after knowing that..either respect his choice or get out of marriage.. bt dunt force him to do the only one thing he doesnt want..u r nt entitled!
@hannahgrace1790
3 жыл бұрын
I think he was dishonest saying that he “cannot” have children instead of “will not” since it’s quite an important distinction, but I agree regarding *that* scene
@DeltaEagleWhiskey
3 жыл бұрын
@Zsuzsanna Varga To him, it was the same thing. He had so much trauma in his childhood. Mentally, he couldn’t have children. Emotionally, he couldn’t have children. Those matter just as much as his physical capacity to impregnate.
@natinthehat7700
3 жыл бұрын
He was still withholding information from her, which classifies as lying and he exploited her naivety. But the r*pe scene was much, much worse.
@Book_Dragon2562
3 жыл бұрын
@@DeltaEagleWhiskey Are we seriously arguing that a lie of omission is somehow not a lie? I understand he was traumatized and had he said “I have no intention of every having children,” I would agree. But he didn’t. He knew when he said couldn’t what she would assume, and rather than clarifying he let her think it. That doesn’t excuse her decision to force the issue as she did. Whether you consider it rape or reproductive coercion, the result is the same. Betrayal and more trauma.
@vibez2806
Жыл бұрын
@hannahgrace1790 can not don't just means physically. If someone said that they can't eat meat, and you assume it is cause they are allergic when they are just vegan. That is on you
@xXRubella666Xx
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this. I've stopped talking about it because the fans get so rude when you say it was rape. I love your option C!
@ectoplasmgreen8341
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine for a second: she lied to him and told him that she was unable to have children. He finds out she lied and, since he wants to have kids with all his heart, he forces her to do it with him. That’s horrible, right? No matter how bad the lie was, he’s a monster for doing this to her. No doubt about that. Then why do people accept it when the roles are reversed? It’s the same thing. I understand that she was extremely uneducated and didn’t know what it was. But at least don’t make us root for her when she faced no consequences.
@annegrady8214
3 жыл бұрын
Shonda, hire this young lady!
@oliviaromer
3 жыл бұрын
This made me feel better. I still feel terrible and I feel like I shouldn’t support the relationship. I want answers from the author :(
@83croissant
3 жыл бұрын
Julia Quinn has spoken about the scene in the book, and said that the main thing she would change if she wrote it now was that she wouldn’t have Simon be drunk . That’s it. She sees it as not quite rape within the historical context but it is a violation... because legally wives were the property of their husbands, there’s an extreme power difference and Daphne saw an opportunity to secure her future. I personally think she never makes up for it in the book or show. It’s not good
@oliviaromer
3 жыл бұрын
@@83croissant ah I see. Yeah I know about the drunk Simon thing. Hopefully Netflix can make an apology scene. It would not hurt or effect the series negatively at all
@lunasun1735
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly, THE SCENE tainted their romance from there on out for me. How can I smile at their reconciliation and the epilogue scene with their first child, when we had her sociopathic deed, lack of empathy and accountability from the narrative after the fact, plus strong gaslighting, to get there. She heaped MORE trauma upon a man already heavily traumatized since childhood, and the narrative completely villainized HIM for it. From the moment she finally got off of him, and gave her little rant, to the last scene seconds before their reconciliation make-up sex, painted her and ONLY her as the victim and Simon and ONLY Simon as the villain. From her hypocritical tirades to her brother, Will’s, Lady Danbury’s, and then her mother’s words the narrative as a whole pretended what she didn’t exist and ONLY Simon’s lie of omission was played for all the melodrama that could be mustered. Her anger was played DISPROPORTIONED for what he actually did in order to ignore her more heinous one. I also don’t understand what the rush was? They were married 3 WEEKS before she found out. Being so deeply in love with her he could have eventually worked through his trauma and saw that his father was still abusing him from the grave, and therefore he would naturally rethink his revenge vow and have children with her of his OWN WILL. I also find it odd that some fans will do mental gymnastics about her act when even billion-dollar Netflix doesn’t even share it. It says SEXUAL VIOLENCE right on the tin. What exactly do they think Netflix was referring to? Furthermore what also bugs me is that Simon's actions with Daphne were shown to be big on consent, but then she ends up taking his and the narrative again villainizes him and rewards her. Hell one of the key scenes of how MUCH he values her consent is when he gets nude and slides into bed with her obviously ready for some sex, but instead when he sees she is ‘sleeping’ he simply kisses her head affectionately then rolls over and goes to sleep himself. I do wonder if he had demanded his ‘martial rights’ regardless of her sleeping or not would the purist to 1800 central norms be okay with it like they seem to be okay with Daphne’s? Which brings me to another point… -The stop looking at THE SCENE through 21st-century lenses purists don’t really make any sense. Once upon a time it was COMPLETELY LEGAL to own, torture, or rape actual HUMAN BEINGS. It wasn’t right then just because of legality and it’s not right now. Morality and legality are not always mutually exclusive and history has repeatedly shown us this. -The other hoop they argue is that she didn’t know what consent was. I have one question about that. What was that Nigel Berbrooke scene then? -He didn’t say no. He said wait VERBALLY twice, and also used BODY LANGUAGE to shake his head in discomfort to what was happening, and his expressions (AGAIN BODY LANGUAGE) were of distress. Immediately afterward his STUTTER (part of his overall trauma) comes back full force. She sees and hears his verbal and body language cues and WE see her ignore them because apparently, her desire for a baby is stronger than his consent. -History says her duty is to make a child. Yes, this show has been a shining beacon of historical fact. Even ignoring that score we have her maid say that a family member has been married ten years without children, and they don’t love each other less or feel anything is missing because of it nor does the world at large seem to be shunning the woman in that story for no children not being born into the marriage. Also, she KNEW no children were going bear fruit in the marriage, and while not happy about it she was content enough because she had Simon. At no point did she make any cues about what the TON would think of them never having kids so apparently that narrative didn’t even enter the equation for her. No, she is the one that PERSONALLY wanted a baby, and when she found out he could give her one after all she made sure her will would supersede his and at a heinous cost. Also, another admittedly smaller consent quip is her reading his private letters without any sort of short apology to him during her speech for doing so. Evidently, Daphne MUST get her way.
@lunasun1735
3 жыл бұрын
From the cold sociopathic look in her eyes during the whole deed to when she finished and looked down at him, any sympathy I had for her pretty much evaporated. If showing them making love was the goal, as well as her finding out the truth, they could have kept the seed cues from the housekeeper and their desk sex, but have her still not ‘quittte’ put two and two together. That also means no visit to the maid after the desk scene, but keep the other clues so they are in the back of her mind. Have him come for her the same way. Erase her premeditation and sociopathic body language from her face and eyes while they are walking to the scene and from the scene itself. Have her NATURALLY get on top in a heat of GENUINE passion, and then at the critical point have him flip her and relieve himself on the sheets. THAT’S when the seed comments, and this final act of him spilling, should have clicked for her, and THEN the fight scene could play out like it did in the show. This way you keep the love scene and her finding out the truth, without turning it into an assault. You also make it easier for us the viewer to still sympathize with her instead of it deflating like a balloon; as well as keeping her aftermath dialogue from then on from sounding like raging hypocrisy. Where was her love and empathy for his pain on WHY he lied by omission? She has seen that he is a good man to her and his tenants, however, that seemed to disappear, and all I got from her was disproportioned sociopathic anger for two and a half episodes. We do have one blink and your miss it scene where she again just berets him, while the narrative again ignores her very heavy part in the dissolution of their marriage. Basically, an ugly road to a happy ever after that answers his trauma with cold indifference. Even when the show seemed like it punished her (didn’t conceive her assault baby, husband about to leave her) it’s STILL shaped as her as the ONLY victim. I also didn’t buy her obsession with wanting a child because she had a big loving family. Here’s the thing most of the scenes with her ‘big loving family’ are her in fights with them. WHERE were these loving scenes with her and her family so I COULD buy her NEED for one of her own? Here are just some of the hypocritical, remorseless, and no self-awareness words the narrative has her say right after her sexual violation of her own husband. Ending of Episode Six: You don’t lie to the one you love. Hmmm You don’t trick the one you love. Errrr You don’t humiliate the one you love. Ummmm…. Episode 7 We don’t trust each other something I know very well she says before storming off like episode six didn’t happen. You betrayed me in our marriage bed. UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Episode 8 to her mother about Simon I can’t forgive…. The docket on the table is Lie of Omission vs Sexual Assault. The narrative just repeatedly and utterly frames her as the wronged party and ONLY her. There was no communication, no empathy, just disproportioned rage, and a narrative that downplays his pain so she can get her way. I was also bemused that two decades of trauma disappears with one short speech that simply stated she… loves him? Yea, that was never truly in question so..... Damn Simon’s trauma really didn’t mean anything.
@jazmyng2330
3 жыл бұрын
I think if there is a season 2 they could do something similar to your 1st fix in like a flashback to their life before she got pregnant, so that we can root for them. I feel like they might because a lot of people have called them out on this scene.
@angelsam29
3 жыл бұрын
I wish I could like this more than once. It infuriates me the amount of people who are sweeping this under the rug just because they like the show and they ship Simon and Daphne.
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
It was hard for me to ship them. I did at first, but their mistrust in each other made it all blurry for me
@leahmarie112
3 жыл бұрын
I can’t honestly believe that they tried to make this “romance” a thing for us to root for. And to have the nerve to use the respected love of Jane Austen’s style as the selling point as well. It was all so painful for me to watch and I’m glad others ageee.
@Kasia_Luna
3 жыл бұрын
OH, I FEEL THIS SO MUCH!! that scene had me LIVID. It left me feeling really disgusted and soured the overall tone of the show.
@TacticusPrime
3 жыл бұрын
I think it would be better to be specific and call it reproductive coercion. People have been unfortunately playing it off as a joke for a long time. "Pricking a hole in the condom" and all the rest. Also, in the early 19th century, husbands and wives could not, in a legal sense, rape each other. By the mid to late 19th century, early feminist activists were beginning to challenge the right of a husband to force himself on his wife. This was a widely understood to be acceptable practice. Wives weren't allowed to refuse consent to their husbands. The law actually didn't change until the 20th century. First in some communist bloc countries, and later in the West. The US didn't start making marital rape illegal until the 1970s. It wasn't illegal in all 50 states until 1993. But then again, Bridgerton can't hide behind historical accuracy. They wear their hair down, have Ariana Grande songs played on strings, and feature a mixed race Regency Era London. They really failed to come to grips with why modern audiences with our developed understandings of individual consent find that scene so heinous. It has a lot to do with the age of the author and the producers. Even 20 years ago, when the Duke and I was written, female-on-male rape was not taken seriously. I get the feeling that the 50yo executive producers of this show just don't understand why it's so awful.
@Book_Dragon2562
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who has experienced reproductive coercion, I can say with all certainty it’s no joke. Actually it happens in 1 out of every 6 relationships, especially abusive ones where the abuser uses the pregnancy to trap their victim.
@lucydaniel2699
3 жыл бұрын
I would still be clear and call that rape, that word carries more weight, is true in this case and illustrates how wrong it is.
@azizabrown
3 жыл бұрын
I kind of agree with you, but imo, reproductive coercion does count as rape as it is forcing a sexual act upon someone who isn’t consenting. People agree that ejaculation inside of someone is a sexual act. If the act is forced upon someone, that’s rape
@gabbyabbott4965
3 жыл бұрын
Either don’t have the rape scene or address the aftermath, trauma and baggage that comes with being a victim. Daphne should have apologized or at the very least face some consequences.
@natkuhn8316
3 жыл бұрын
I was infuriated when she raped him and THEN PRETENDED TO BE THE VICTIM. I understand the time this series takes place into, but it’s fucking insane for them to not talk about this situation and just pretend it didn’t happen. The fact that he apologized to her, it’s so sick
@samanthawalsh4172
3 жыл бұрын
The actress who plays Daphne even admits its premeditated
@rozz8591
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. Here is some of my thought process- I agree with all of this, but I think he did reiterate that they couldn’t be together after what she did, and acknowledged they could not trust each other. I agree that they should have included an apology from her. I think she did express her anger about how she knew nothing, especially to her mother. But she should have been accountable for her actions instead of just sticking to the idea that he was stubbornly giving up their happiness. I also think he realized he didn’t want to be alone not just because of her speech, but they really didn’t explore that enough. They made room for the things you’re requesting in the narrative, but not enough room for him. They focused on his issues being the problem too much. But I do like to think he still stuck up for himself and they shared the blame for not “choosing love” and both had to make that choice through their own hard won lessons. However, they should have communicated about it with much more accountability on her part. Not so much spiteful miscommunication. Like you say, I’m a sucker for effective communication too. I do see them with the pulling away and then not being able to resist each other. But they blame still is in his court, and that’s not right. We shouldn’t have to wrestle so much with the clarity of this situation. They should call the assault what it is, and all I can hope is there will be an apology at least alluded to in the future of the story.
@groovygroovyy
3 жыл бұрын
so glad you said something! daphne was disgusting for not respecting his wishes to not have kids and then she literally gaslighted him the whole entire time! she also forced him to marry her?? it was just so bizarre and simon deserved so much better than a woman who couldn’t respect his wishes and thought she knew better than him
@bondifiedshawty
3 жыл бұрын
He dishonoured her and someone else saw, her chance of suitable suitors would’ve been slim to none
@AmyL._orcgirl
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, Daphne is not my favorite character. She behaves very selfishly through most of the second half of the series.
@AmyL._orcgirl
3 жыл бұрын
@@bondifiedshawty to be fair, we're the viewers and we can still judge the hell out of her and her actions.
@AmyL._orcgirl
3 жыл бұрын
@Zsuzsanna Varga plotwise, I get why she did what she did. Viewer wise, it was a dick move on Daphne's part. Both Simon and Daphne continue to make dick moves towards each other, mostly from the plot points of them not speaking to each other. And I'm *always* going to view it with a 21st century eye and scream at the screen that they all need therapy.
@ndapandulaipinge790
3 жыл бұрын
I agree that the scene was sexual assault. But Simon did lie to Daphne he said he can't have kids not that he doesn't want children. Two different things. Not saying he deserved it, she should've confronted him about it instead of doing what she did.
@Shellflower1234
3 жыл бұрын
I think the reason why they changed it the way they did is because in the book she does talk to him about it first, he explains the vow and says he’s not willing to give it up. Then she rapes him while he is drunk despite him saying things “Stop, please”. In the series, if she talked to him before, he would be extra careful knowing that she would want to get pregnant. In all, they should’ve removed it altogether (both in the book and series)
@JenniferHales
3 жыл бұрын
As a feminist, the scene disgusted me. How dare they portray a rapist as heroine?
@victorlannister5606
3 жыл бұрын
I haven’t seen the whole show but I’m glad you explained this. Plus I actually like your re-write of the story and honestly prefer it. The last option is basically perfect! I hope maybe they’ll give a Moment next season where we see some thing like this between Simon and Daphne. But I mostly hope the remove the scene.
@TippedScales106
3 жыл бұрын
I felt as if on a technicality Simon did take advantage of the fact that Daphne knew nothing of sex and I understood her anger for that aspect (although all she had to do was ask him why for a better clarification on the matter) but her actions were definitely malice and I wish that had been addressed within their “healing” process. They could have still had the conflict between the couple with a conversation (argument) once Daphne had the details on how one becomes with child, although the tension between them wouldn’t have been as thick because there technically wouldn’t have been a betrayal on both ends but there were definitely ways around that act. Even in leaving the act in, once Daphne uncovered the reason behind Simon’s vow to his father on her own once she realized it she could have minimally addressed and apologize for her actions
@TippedScales106
3 жыл бұрын
After watching the series again I’d like to edit what I said without changing my opinion. Simon was honest with Daphne about his intentions. In episode 5 when Simon is pleading with the Queen for their special marriage license he says conversations with Daphne were easy and I wish that rang true and he’d actually explained what he meant by not being able to give her children instead of simply omitting that information. I still understand Daphne’s anger from his betrayal of not telling her the specifics of what he meant. But she literally did everything she accused him off in their argument and although Whistledown sort of kind of explained her actions when talking about Marina I do wish Daphne and Simon addressed them in conversation
@kamj2948
3 жыл бұрын
The entire relationship starting with Daph forcing marriage was abusive. Very uncomfortable to watch
@bianca1637
3 жыл бұрын
I'm on the same page as you! I completely fell in love with the show, period dramas and the "fake dating trope" are things I absolutely adore. I wanted to root for them so bad but this part of their story ruined everything for me! The only thing that helps is to imagine that it happened in another way, and I must say that your ideas of different narratives were brilliant. I wish the show could've done something similar... All we can do now, as you said, is hope that this can be addressed and fixed next season 😔 Fingers crossed!
@Angelrox03
3 жыл бұрын
I love your opinions on this. I honestly didn't realize all of this until I wanted to read the books and saw a review. I hope if season 2 does go back to this and fixes it somehow. I hope you react to that fix.
@bjones6441
3 жыл бұрын
After I watched that scene, I literally sat there staring at the screen for a while and then had that moment where it's just like 'Why Is Everything Terrible'? It was supposed to be a silly show with shiny stuff and nonsense. You can't just shove rape into things if you aren't willing to deal with it properly. Gah! World!
@claudia9339
3 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY why are so few people talking about it? I felt so uncomfortable watching it, and angry about the fact that they didn't "fix" it at the end. Yes, he had to get over past traumas, BUT that's not the way??? that's not how it works???? She's manipulative, like totally toxic
@MissAngie25
3 жыл бұрын
He is manipulative and totally toxic.
@claudia9339
3 жыл бұрын
@@MissAngie25 I mean he's no better, but she's the one that trapped him into the marriage and that raped him, and then make him feel bad about it
@MissAngie25
3 жыл бұрын
@@claudia9339 trapped him? He’s just as much in love with her as she is with him. He omitted information that he knew that if he were to disclose it, he ran the risk of losing her. He lied for selfish reasons, what he did is the equivalence of emotional rape. Imagine what would have happened if she never figured out what he had been doing and only found out years down the line after she would have been too old to have children? This would have destroyed her emotionally. Emotional abuse is just has bad as physical abuse.
@claudia9339
3 жыл бұрын
@@MissAngie25 they were in love with each other yes obviously but that doesn't mean that they had to get married??? He clearly didn't want to get married, he didn't want children. He knew she wanted children and that's why he couldn't marry her, it's not that difficult. The show should make us understand how wrong it was (and it still is) the idea to have sex only after the wedding. It keeps people to get trapped into a marriage at a very young age ONLY because that's the first person that they find hot and that feels the same "sentiment" back. I mean, that's the main reason why they get married: someone saw them kissing. That's it. They had to do it but they didn't want to. And another point: he had past traumas to solve, he wasn't able to tell her the truth, also because she's as empathetic as a stone brick, but mostly because THEY'RE TRAUMAS FFS if, as you're saying, he didn't tell the truth to not lose her, so if he wanted to lie to her to keep her with him, wouldn't it been easier marry her immediately instead of literally trying to commit suicide? :)
@clare1759
3 жыл бұрын
it would have been SO EASY TO REWRITE THAT SCENE ajsdlkfs i share your anger
@ultima1594
2 жыл бұрын
I have an interesting fourth rewrite: The scene starts as usual, and when Simon is trying to get her off he says “Daphne let go of me” and this makes her remember when she was in the garden with Nigel, and she said the same thing and he didn’t stop. She remembers how scared she felt in that moment, and realizes she is doing the same to him. She stops and apologizes, and explains that she knows where babies come from. Simon is mad because he thought Daphne was fine with not having kids, and Daphne is mad because Simon lied to her. The scene with Daphne and Lady Danbury is the study happens where she learns about his fathers abuse. Lady Danbury then goes to Simon and a scene similar happens to what you described, except Simon learns more about how exactly how women are kept in the dark about sex, because he states he had no idea. Then, Daphne goes to Anthony and talks to him about what happened, and Anthony talks about how Simon was forced to take on this role of being the perfect heir, and Anthony relates to the pressure he feels he is put under. This allows both Daphne and Simon to understand the perspective of the other. Then basically the resolution you described happens. Thoughts?
@BriarPatchNyra
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your comments on being child free. I keep seeing people say he should have told the truth. He did. He couldn’t have kids because he didn’t want kids and was terrified of having them due to horrific trauma. That’s “can’t” I’m child free myself and this mentality horrifies me.
@iriss.parker8842
3 жыл бұрын
I already had respect for you but this vid/rant increased my respect even further! When I first heard about this particular incident, all hopes for me finally watching the show vanished because it made me sick to think about its treatment of not just Simon but of their issues regarding children. It hits too close for me as someone who aligns with Simon's stance regarding children and I myself married someone that is a lot like Daphne in a sense of wanting a family. If the show wanted drama in those conflicting ideals, they truly could have done so without resorting to a r*pe scene. It is possible. My husband and I ourselves have had conflicts (one in which your fix-it idea actually occurred between us) without resorting to destroying our trust and damaging our love for each other. I hope you'll be able to reconcile with this series if only because it sounded like you truly did love it (before the show broke your heart). Thank you for this video!
@Becca-yp9cr
3 жыл бұрын
I kept screaming for them to just talk to each other
@kelawoops
3 жыл бұрын
You said everything I was thinking. While watching I was waiting for the moment when Daphne apologized but it just NEVER HAPPENED. It was so frustrating and it ruins the couple and Simon's "character growth" (which is just not believable, you don't traumatize someone into overcoming trauma). I HATED that Daphne was rewarded for rping her husband because the moral of the story seems to be "and she was always right and always had to have what she wanted and the feelings of everyone else never mattered ever". I would have appreciated your first option for a different ending and I would have LOVED the second one. I think the third option would have been great, but also less intense.
@lafemmesanspseudo7840
3 жыл бұрын
I have no problem with this scene being depicted on screen (or their generally quite unhealthy relationship, for the matter : hello "passion" and falling madly in love with someone you don't know, hello unsolved childhood trauma, avoidant attachment and nurse syndrom...). I know there is a great audience and some kind of responsibility attached to that, but I also believe that films/songs/books shouldn't necessarily go towards the everything-is-perfect direction. Something about catharsis and so on. It is people responsibility to educate themselves through other means. However, I found it quite weird that they didn't explore the consequences of it a little bit more. Maybe D and S didn't fully realize the weight and consequences of this moment yet but I have my doubts that the series will not delve more into this particular situation in the future (although I recall that on some occasion you can feel the guilt). And, I find it appalling to see that a great number of people do not even recognize rape on screen, even after all that has been discussed with metoo etc (o, to think it was even worse before...). A French magazine article told that this rape scene normalized rape (the viewer is quite encouraged to be on the attacker's side) and you cannot imagine the facebook comments that were below. 90% of the commenters (mostly women) didn't perceive this scene as rape or problematic (which was so obvious to me??) : - there is no rape scene in this series so it's ok - she steals her sperm, that's what they call rape so it's ok - there is worse in other films so it's ok - he could have easily pushed her so it's ok - he was in it for sex, so he consented, he just couldn't ejaculate where he wanted so it's ok - he said wait and not stop so it's ok - looks like he liked it so it's ok - when you climax, you want it ; when you are raped, you don't want it - i wasn't shocked, all I could think about was being in Daphne's shoes oh my god...
@lydiaperry4645
3 жыл бұрын
Your options are so much better. That scene ruined it for me. It was such a sweet love story until then
@bluebell8557
3 жыл бұрын
What pisses me is that he TOLD her he doesn't want kids. She had no right. He never lied. He said he can't have kids and he can't. I hate how abruptly they end up with a child at the end. It felt rushed and made no sense to me and was against his character.
@sylvia9290
3 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! I can't stop thinking about this and I was scouring the internet trying to find someone who understands how terrible it was. I would never forgive someone if they did that to me. I can't shake how unsettling this scene was.
@cculley2029
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I thought I was the only one. She straight up made him feel guilty for not wanting children. He told her in the beginning that basically it will be a childless marriage. I don’t think he lied, what about the scene where she got mad at her mother for not telling her about physical intimacy. I feel it was her mother’s duties or anyone else (who understands) to tell her before marriage. They literally pushed this mother daughter issue aside and made him the bad guy! Ugh!!!
@poetryqn
3 жыл бұрын
I agree with your analysis. My question is (and I'm still debating this myself) do you think that the rape of a man was glossed over since the adaptation was written by a man? Unfortunately, there are some men out there who might consider being sexually attacked by a beautiful, sexually aggressive woman no bad thing - and THAT is what I think is so destructive about the way this episode was written. The issue of marital rape - male or female - is sadly still a controversial subject. As you point out, it was written differently so that the character of Simon was participating *to a point* rather than drunk, BUT I agree that it is still rape. (non-consensual sex) I'm also glad that you use the word rape repeatedly - I think it clearly demonstrates that there was lack of consent. I think you are right to point out that it is a second trauma for Simon's character. And the stutter reinforces this idea. Yeah, I think Chris Van Dusen could have done better.
@OReily08080
3 жыл бұрын
Right. Some men think that it's some kind of "win" despite the trauma the guy went through
@JST03
2 жыл бұрын
Some men believe it's good when that happens or some women don't believe it's possible. It's still kind of ridiculous how many ppl have certain criteria for what THEY consider rape rather than what it actually is and how ppl's reaction to it changes when the gender does.
@CafeCouleur
3 жыл бұрын
I did not see any deep conversations in this show, in any of the situations. They had a few heavy social issues, but the narative was kept light around these situations.
@pitpat2928
3 жыл бұрын
im rlly happy now that i stopped watching at ep 4 and i can imagine she married the prince and kicked off an unrequited love to friends to lovers w a splash of drama from that blonde gal
@azizabrown
3 жыл бұрын
I wanted her to be with the prince too man :(
@AnxietyRat
3 жыл бұрын
@@azizabrown He seemed like a very decent guy. She could have been happy with him. 100%.
@AgosAntonelli
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I finished watching Bridgerton because I'm a completionist. I also wanted to root for this couple very deeply. At first, I was really loving the show. Whenever I get excited by the plot of a movie or a tv show I like to make some guesses (for fun) as to how the story might unfold. Back when I was watching the show and before I got to this particularly problematic scene I made some guesses and basically one of them was fix b, I legitimately thought that that would make total sense according to the events that had occurred until then and also that it'd be a very interesting narrative to explore. I thought that the conversations that they ended up having would arise from a completely different incident as the trigger and I still believe they could've totally had another scene to set them in motion that didn't include reproductive coercion or r*pe. I was totally taken aback by this scene and I must admit I was not only profusely uncomfortable while watching but also very disappointed when they never addressed the situation afterward. If this show is to be renewed for a second season I hope for the same that you did, I hope for BETTER on their part.
@PatyTWD
Жыл бұрын
YES!! Totally unnecessary that sexual abuse scene, it revolts me how unnecessary it was.
@alidapollock1684
2 жыл бұрын
Julia Quinn WISHES she thought of these solutions. I hope she is appalled by her own book.
@ablackgirlnamedchloe6711
3 жыл бұрын
I’m just gonna pretend this is how it went 😭 that scene made me go 😳 and I’m happy someone else felt the same
@MrPassion4truth
2 жыл бұрын
I think your video is brilliant. Daphne is a hypocrite. She says Simon took away her future, but she's delusional and is misremembering the facts. If she was willing to marry him believing that he couldn't have children, she would have married him if he simply said I don't want children, because she would have thought, I'll get him to change his mind later, which was what she tried to do anyway. Not only that, she would have married Simon anyway because 1) she was in love with him and she thought she was trapping him into marriage and was okay with that, 2) she wanted to stop her brother from killing him, 3) the prince was no longer an option because she knew Cressida had seen her with Simon in the garden, and 4) even before the topic of children was ever discussed, these other things had already happened and it was too late to change course. She made the choice to go into the garden. She could have gone back to the party and accepted the prince's proposal. She said, why do you think I went into that garden. After the Duke kissed her, she gave her response to his apology by kissing him back. Finally, let me defend the Duke with he lied when he said he can't give Daphne children. Will and Can are often used as synonyms in English. If I ask you, will you do me a favor, and you say, I can't, does that mean you lied because you didn't say, I won't!? Can't is just a more polite way to say "won't". Can not and will not are two different things, Daphne says. Technically, Daphne is right, but that's a problem with English, not a problem with the Duke. Other languages have more than one word for can't so as to avoid miscommunication.
@carmeli6488
3 жыл бұрын
FINALLY I FOUND THE VIDEO EXPRESSING MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I started watching the show because I heard about the hype on Twitter and I am physically incapable of self control when it comes to period dramas. I did know there was a controversial scene somewhere, but I had no idea what to expect. There was literally nothing I could fault the show for... until I got to that part. I literally had to pause the episode at that point and take a break to process what just happened, it genuinely left such a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the day. And you're right, I hate the way they handled the immediate aftermath, focusing on Daphne's hurt and completely glossing over the fact that she r*ped her husband? I don't like immediately hating a character at the first sign of them doing something morally ambiguous (especially if it's a female character) but I HATED her so much in that scene. And then she had the AUDACITY to tell him 'you do not trick the one you love'!!! (it's the hypocrisy for me) There was so much this show had going for it!!! Period dramas always provide a great opportunity for feminist messaging but one thing I really loved about this show was how it took those feminist themes further than the well-trodden (but still extremely valid) women-have-greater-ambitions-than-marriage/men story. It also looked at themes of sexual liberty and reproductive rights in the context of the English regency era. That scene really undercuts those otherwise empowering messages and almost renders them completely invalid (I say 'almost' because I really liked Marina's arc). And (apart from the fact that Daphne never acknowledges it) the way that the season ends with them immediately having a kid without evidence of a (necessarily, imo) lengthy process of healing between the two?? Disappointing :((((
@phymateus7709
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly the plot between Daphne and Simon after the marriage coud be easily dissolve by locking them up in a room together until they have talked it out.
@apricity4854
3 жыл бұрын
I really loved their chemistry and interactions throughout the first episodes. Up until the wedding thing, which made me kind of uncomfortable. Mainly, because everything was so slow at the beginning, and then just... rushed. But I could understand it, and when they had that sweet moment at the inn, that was fine. I enjoyed their scenes together again. But when that rape-scene happened, I felt awkward and at the beginning I couldn't quite understand why. Then, during the next episodes I understood it. Especially during the scenes, where Simon is all "I can never have children. It has to do with my trauma. Please understand that. We should stay away from each other. I am doing this for you." and Daphne is all "but i want child. give me child". In the last few minutes, Simon says something along the lines of "I don't know how to be the man you need me to be" and all I thought was "but she isn't the woman you need her to be either??" This narrative, that he has to give up everything for her, and she can even get away with rape makes me so angry...
@vanessabwillis3767
3 жыл бұрын
When watching the scene, I thought it was an utmost betrayal. Simon would never do that to her. Before their first encounter he asked her if she wanted him to stop. He asked her twice. I understand Daphne was upset and felt betrayed, but they way she handled it was not good. There was no love in her actions. I didn't equate her actions to rape, but that is certainly what she did. He felt betrayed and hurt, yet again by someone from whom he sought love. I understand more clearly why he told her, he would never darken her doorstep again. OMGoodness! (However, during the time period in which Bridgerton takes place, it would be nothing for a man to have sex with his wife whether she wanted to or not. Sad.)
@DeMike156
3 жыл бұрын
Me two minutes in: So it wasn't just me who thought that was straight up rape. Yeah it was kinda messed how they handled that.
@destinyharris3488
3 жыл бұрын
I absolutely agree with the incentive that the screenwriters should have handled this scene much better, but I don't believe they should have erased the scene. I believe the scene could have been imperative to convey that what she did to him was wrong. I wish the writers had gone more in depth onto why Simon was mad and how she couldn't understand, being sexually uneducated. They should have then elaborated on her actions and how they hurt him. Then, she should have apologised to him for what she had done instead of glossing over everything. The show had always established itself as 16+ and had warned the audience of the scene, but the scene itself was appalling and not handled properly. So, I believe the scene shouldn't be erased, just handled correctly. They should have explored the aspect WAY more.
@Danikins77
3 жыл бұрын
I understand that she was trying to find out if that was really what was happening but she should have let him push her off once she realized that’s what he was doing.
@pariwhoop4935
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly that is just honestly disgusting. Female consent is important but male consent is fucking important too!!!!! This is coming from a woman. That is just as bad as a guy getting a woman pregnant by a guy taking off a condom during sex. Or breaking it on purpose. Seriously. This is really not the shit. Thanks for making this video.
@analorena6832
3 жыл бұрын
1:18 I HAVE read the book, and I can attest that the scene IS worse in the book. Simon is drunk, asleep, emotionally vulnerable and seeking comfort in Daphne, who at that point is fully aware of why he does not want children, knows the details of his abuse and trauma, has been explained why Simon has made the choice to not procreate (even says that she understands it), and also knows exactly how children are conceived. And, the whole thing gets resolved by Simon thinking that "oh, well he did want to have sex with her so maybe it was his fault" and him actully asking Daphne to forgive him.
@sadleftist827
3 жыл бұрын
Watching this, I’m realizing I’m now concerned about all the sex scenes in the show, *because* Daphne was under the impression she was consenting to sex in which it would be *impossible* to become pregnant. But it isn’t impossible, because pulling out isn’t an effective method of birth control. I feel like there’s definitely a grey area with the consent there as well. Again, it speaks to the need for sex education (during both the time period of the show and today).
@aliebellule
3 жыл бұрын
The weak pullout game fix also addresses the fact that pulling out is a very uneffective contraception method. Exhibit A: According to my TMI-prone grandmother, my very existence (through my mother being born) is a direct result of my grandfather thinking that worked.
@AnxietyRat
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, we now know pre-ejaculate CAN contain sperm. Which is why it isn't a good method of birth control. Back then... They didn't have this knowledge.
@latersgator
3 жыл бұрын
Man, I really didn't like how she put pressure on him while acting like the victim in this. I was really disturbed and disappointed on that scene. It's like she simply brushes off whatever wrong she did because he lied to her. To me, Daphne character went downhill just for Simon's to go up. One more thing, I feel like this story could go to how Simon wants. No kids. I don't understand why their dilemma has to be about having kids. Why does Simon have to change only for Daphne? That's what that show felt like to me. Why not she accepts that he doesn't want kids and learn to "roll with it"? There are couples without kids and are happy. Some may have wanted kids before but came to an understanding to support their partner or break up so they can have what they want.
@PeacefulSlumber
3 жыл бұрын
The power balance in this relationship does not lend itself to a HEA. Simon has basically been emotionally beaten down into consenting to a family. Way to lay even more blame and shame onto someone who is already up to his eyeballs with it. I was really enjoying the series (which surprised me, I was so ready to dislike it) right up to the point that Daphne rapes him and NOTHING comes of it in terms of her recognising that she took away his agency. Just because she's a small, dainty, innocent girl, and he's a strapping "man of the world" does not mean that what happened should go unaddressed. It utterly sickened me.
@Aenni_8816
3 жыл бұрын
This is such a great video! Thank you for adressing this serious topic 🙏 I wish The show would have handled better. Your versions would have been so much better and still be authentic to this Show!
@aditibiswas3121
3 жыл бұрын
I feel so horrible that I didn't even realise that that scene was indeed Daphne raping Simon. I guess I never acknowledged how misguided my notions about sexual assault in general are, especially when it comes to a woman being the perpetrator and a man being the victim in a situation. And, I think to some extent, the show's creators might have done the same? Or, perhaps not. Whatever, I'm so glad that you not only talked about it, but also provided the alternate arcs the story could have had.
@lafemmesanspseudo7840
3 жыл бұрын
Good on you and the people around you that you are able to reflect and evolve your mind about this :)
@theghosttattic
3 жыл бұрын
I completely skipped over the scene the second it started because I knew it wasn’t going to go well. I personally thought they were both at fault. He wasn’t honest with her why he couldn’t give her children. He never helped her understand his side. But it DOES NOT justify what she did. It really bothered me that she never apologized, it was him who had to get over his need for revenge against his father.
@TraumaTalk
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for making this video!! You do such a fantastic job of articulating this! 💜
@queenmahsa3761
3 жыл бұрын
Oh my god! Perfectly said! I was thinking about it since I watched episod6....... poor simon! First his father and now...his wife.....
@mishynaofficial
3 жыл бұрын
Can we talk for a moment about Simon's revenge being so f*cking dumb. His father only cared about the title and not about the people. A smart move would be if Simon declined the title and lived happy life as a commoner and loved his family. But this's not how you write a Regency era best-selling romance...
@cooking_with_ash9099
3 жыл бұрын
Right!
@luciaflevares9202
3 жыл бұрын
And it's a minor issue compared to everything else, but the idea that they would just split and he'd go God-knows-where feels ahistorical and/or problematic. He was just starting to get Clyvedon back on track, but he would just go? I would have been more realistic, I think, for them to live mostly separate lives at Clyvedon, keeping up appearances.
@mishynaofficial
3 жыл бұрын
@@luciaflevares9202 don't worry. This rich and stupid dude had countless mansions all over England in the book.
@lemontart1883
3 жыл бұрын
Historical romance pretty much requires characters to be wealthy (and usually titled) to have a happy ending. Contemporary romance isn’t much better with the obsession with billionaires (who are very rarely an attractive breed in real life).
@pistachiopanda
3 жыл бұрын
Its not dumb. Carrying on a family name, especially Regency era, is a huge thing. You want your bloodline to continue. Simon's WHOLE trauma was tied to the fact that his father was so hell bent on getting a son, that he celebrated his birth while his wife died in the background. Simon's mom was a brooding mare, basically. Simon was deprived of parental figures because of his father's selfishness. He had many reasons to not want to have kids. 1. Spite his father and end the bloodline his father fought so hard to get. 2. He wanted to be a bachelor for the rest of his life because he didn't want kids. I also think he was terrified his wife would die during childbirth. 3. He hated his father's name so much, he did not want to be called it. I hate my family. They have caused me so much trauma. I cannot wait to take on my fiance's name and be rid of this dreadful name.
@katielol2877
3 жыл бұрын
can we pretend this is what actually happened
@figgysmezzo
3 жыл бұрын
I am so glad fans are not ignoring this.
@89Brownay
3 жыл бұрын
At first I couldn't see where you were going with this but then I remembered what happened. It was really messed up. The fact that he was like no stop wait and she kept going anyway...that did mess up the story for me. He lied to her saying that he can not. She had no right to prove that he lied.
@mansura5409
3 жыл бұрын
she should not have marry him when he told her that he cannot give her children bc she wanted to have kids
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