Otomo players: using shogun 2 to play a better version of empire since 2011
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Haha, pretty much xD
@brainwasher9876
3 жыл бұрын
Shogun's certainly prettier and less glitchy than ETW, but I'd argue that ETW had more strategic depth and variation.
@auxilia5024
2 жыл бұрын
@Tradpa0212 Empire has the best campaign, but the in-battle optimization could use some work. Also, Shogun 2 has the best blackpowder of all the total wars i've played. I would like an Empire 2 if at all possible
@phantom498
Жыл бұрын
@@auxilia5024 Battles in Napoleon are lovely visually, sound design wise, and gameplay is great too. I could never really find much if any joy in Empire battles. I will say I do prefer the gunfire sounds of the muskets in Shogun 2 compared to Napoleon or empire though. The only thing Empire has going for it imo is the scale of the grand campaign map, besides that I find it to be a inferior total war game in every aspect compared to others. It did have the potential to be the best total war, but it has to many problems and just aspects that are much worse compared to other total war games. I also would like to see an Empire 2 though
@12345689069
3 жыл бұрын
I’m quite surprised watching the Ikko-Ikki matchlock warrior monks, they are unique to the clan, yet they are in the Uesugi-Takeda historical battle 🤔
@ReviveHF
3 жыл бұрын
Balanced reasons
@demomanchaos
2 жыл бұрын
There is a generic version of Gun Monks in the game's code, and IIRC their unit name is actually "Uesugi Matchlock Monks." No clue why they were never properly implemented.
@Gabriel-ip6me
2 жыл бұрын
The reason the Donderbuss Cav seems microintensive is because most people try to use it as Skirmisher cavalry. Instead, spread them out and place them just behind your melee units (preferably yari ashigaru) . They'll fire over your melee line annihilating anything that charges at you. They're also extremely powerful in defensive sieges when used as infantry.
@Elliottklassen
Жыл бұрын
An interesting way to bypass the issue of straight line shooting is just to shoot from stop a horse.
@daniellxnder
10 ай бұрын
@@Elliottklassen I once experimented with putting Donderbuss behind a pike and shot formation and oh boy it was a really fun battle!
@Metro_6969
3 жыл бұрын
I’m glad people are still making tutorials I just got the game a few days ago and it’s my first total war game it’s so fun to feel like a general on a huge ancient battle ground
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you are enjoying the game! :)
@N0rdhen
Жыл бұрын
Its one of the better total war games, imo after shogun 2 they started getting worse and worse :(. My personal favourite is medieval 2
@szabolcskis9812
3 жыл бұрын
Very good quality, you deserve a bigger audience.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you :)
@Melkor7
3 жыл бұрын
He will get a bigger audience!
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@Melkor7 Thank you for your confidence! :) We'll have to see what happens.
@synbioskuun
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who just unlocked the Tercos in my first Otomo run, I'm excited to use them. Their samurai-tier melee stats mean that I don't have to worry much about swapping with a yari ashigaru/naginata samurai backup.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
They are really fun to use! :)
@shorewall
2 жыл бұрын
I used Tercos as my front line, and fire rockets to back them up. I used two units of light cav and my general to ride down routers after the massacre.
@rizalalbar
3 жыл бұрын
The only down side of matchlock unit other than their stats, is their availabilty for the clan except for the Otomo. Is that they're a late game unit. You basically already win the campaign on the short campaign.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
You'll pretty much agree with the conclusion in part 3 then ;)
Fire by rank Looks amazing and is exactly what I want from a musket unit cept the fire rate goes into the dirt; it's the worst. If you have the space to put everyone in a two or free rank firing line then just let em fire at will and look terrible Fire by rank only really pays off in five rank deep formations or more by letting the back row have a go too
@nogisonoko5409
3 жыл бұрын
But the truth is, fire by rank in original Shogun 2 is too problematic. It took ages for them to fire.
@candy4u86
3 жыл бұрын
My prayers have been answered 2!
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Haha, hopefully I'll be able to do that a third time soon ;)
@Dr.CaveCurinas
3 жыл бұрын
How to use ranged cav could be cool. I once wound up with bow cav as Takeda and was surprised by how good they were in melee.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Bow cavalry is low-key very powerfull ;)
@RocketHarry865
3 жыл бұрын
The problem with Matchlock units is that they are fairly difficult to get save for the Otomo clan. Bows are practically flat out better in almost every regard (save armour piercing and even that is marginal and overcome with fire arrows) and you can get them with little effort.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, you'll probably agree with part 3 then ;)
@Vincrand
Жыл бұрын
The Kitabatake (Ise province) in the mod that allows you to play as any clan can recruit the matchlock warrior monk relatively easy. They need a tier 2 shrine (province building) and the gunpowder tech after heaven and earth. The mod gives all other clans traits that are generaly speaking good and not over powered. Mod is called "All 46 Clans Playable - Classic", made by AkaSinneslöschen.
@nursery6269
3 жыл бұрын
Ikko Ikki matchlock Ashigaru are only useful in siege defenses but even then they're still pretty bad. However they are pretty decent in The Strongholds of the samurai mod because of the choke points
@Christian-mt5jx
2 жыл бұрын
Love how These are short but very informational. Perfect for quick search up when your struggling in a campaign lmao
@TheVikingGeneral
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you like the format!
@KyoushaPumpItUp
3 жыл бұрын
There is a bug/glitch where you need to have a gunsmith in a castle to recruit matchlock units when you play as Otomo.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Are you sure? In my game, I only need the powdermaker to recruit the matchlock ashigaru, but the samurai matchlock do require the gunsmith.
@KyoushaPumpItUp
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral oh. I think i made a mistake. What I was trying to say was the bulding chain needed for sieges was needed in a castle to recruit matchlock ashigaru when playing as Otomo compared to other clans where reasearch was only needed, which is a hassle when you need matchlock ashigaru asap as an Otomo.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@KyoushaPumpItUp Yeah, but from the way the game presents it, it seems to be intended. ;)
@KyoushaPumpItUp
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral Let me guess, because of their superior matchlock units that would make them easier to expand if the ashigaru were easily recruited without the need for the siege building chain?
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@KyoushaPumpItUp I don't know why the developers would implement it that way. But the powdermaker is relatively easy to get, getting the gunpowder mastery art afterwards easily takes 20+ turn.
@portalovodguides
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this guide!
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@mace1367
Жыл бұрын
Started playing this thanks for the tutorials on an old game, wish you had units guide for Rise and Fall of the Samurai
@kotzpenner
3 жыл бұрын
Nice, I'm in the Oda campaign and really thinking about switching to matchlocks, didn't build any of these units yet (except the free one from Nanban trade event) but I think I'll stay with bows, considering it still takes like 20 turns to unlock them anyway lol
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
I'd recommend sticking with bows ;)
@trebor797
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting video, but I guess what you didn't knew so far is that guard mode is just epic for any ranged unit in that game. It helps unit to fire even if it is engaged in melee. I played S2 for 2800 hours but I am more like a MP veteran than a campaign player, but believe me, any good MP plyer uses guard mode for ranged units as it helps a ton. You should have also mentioned for heavy gunners their amazing effectiveness against cavalry as a good salve can literilly lift an entire unit out of their saddles. I am not too sure about campaign mechanics, but from classic battles I know that matchlocks can have a bamboo fence (in Avatar conquest only Tokitakas Tanegashima ). However one of the best tactics in classical battles is using Hattori units with their vanguard deployment. The fact you can take strategic positions as first AND additionally fortify them with bamboo fences is just amazing. But good video and if I could make a suggestion for a new guide it would be really nice if you could talk about reload mechanics as many people dont know. Cause higher reload speed does not necessarily mean a unit fires faster if tehy use different weapons. I guess thats not really a thing in campaign, but in MP reload caps are a huge thing. Eevery unit has a point where higher reload speed does not affect the time anymore. There ones was a guide on Steam, but the author got fu**** by a hacker and took down the guide unfortunate :( But would be nice to have the right numbers again as I just barely remember something around 80-90 for most units.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
I did indeed miss the point about the guard mode! The other things I did know, but eventually I have to cut some stuff out of the script to keep it from being bloated. And of course, the focus is on single player campaign. ;) Deployables are for every ranged unit if you "fortified" a position (spend a turn without moving your army and be attacked afterwards) I didn't mention the shimazu bit (but it's very powerful indeed) since the AI generally is very bad with their cav anyway. I'm not too familiar with the reload mechanics, but I might look into it in the future! I still have a lot of different things to cover :P
@trebor797
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral Ah ok I didn't knew how bamboo fences could be used in campaign as its some years ago I played one. Can it also be used in sieges as I also have a tactic for this? :D kzitem.info/news/bejne/mJetmK6Lk36GrKQ I guess thats the problem to talk about tactics here as my experience refers to MP only as I am disappointed by weak AI, but therefore AI requires completly other tactics to deal with it, which I don't really know. I just know heavy gunners are not really used in MP, but I often give love to unusual units. In one landbattle a suprised flank attack by a cav that my ally didn't stopped from his opponent was about to hit me and I could turn around heavy gunners on a bad postion in the last seconds so the cav unit was like 2m away from the unit until the salve of death completly smashed it :D They also suprise many players in sieges as they don't know that their guns deal quite good damage to buildings and they are amazing in taking down towers and gates. But also against units on the wall as bullets pentrate the wooden part and so hit the soldiers behind. Thats how you can kill units on walls faster than with archers. And their push back effect in small spaces is just perfect to stop sally outs steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2088297371
@ltmatthewakj2466
3 жыл бұрын
so, the conclusion is don't try to send them in melee because the melee defense is horrible or not meant to be. Tercos may be an exception but the main purpose is incredible defense. I make a defense siege with tercos and ashigaru and despite outnumber against a more powerful units like katana samurai etc, I won. That's how good tercos are. But can you tell when we use fire by ranks or not?
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Using fire by ranks is circumstantial. I think I'll actually make another video about it since there's quite a bit of nuance to it. But in general, it's probably best to use it and give attack orders before they enter your firing range.
@trebor797
3 жыл бұрын
Well its pretty easy to answer. Fire by rank allows a unit to have 3 ranks of firing max.(it can be less though). This means that you can have on small space a really high firepower. This for example can be needed in a siege battle at a fight close to the keep, as space is kinda limited there. The disadvantage of fire by rank is that the first volley needs more time than without firing by rank and the unit waits until almost every soldier in a rank loaded, which can cause delays when your matchlock unit gets shot by archers for example. So the first salve of firing without rank is faster and every soldier fires at will, so whenever he loaded a musket or he gets the line of sight he starts shooting. This gives a matchlock unit a really high flexibility, but remind only the first rank of a unit can fire. As a result this turns out really effective against cavalry charges by AI. Firing by rank would take way too long, the charge already hit you before ur soldiers fire. Also on hilly terrain where your line of sight is blocked sometimes the higher flexibility and initiative of every single soldier is better than a formation salve. Another thing you need to be aware of is that as your only your first line is shooting it is best to form so called "Spaghetti-lines". This means its best to stretch out the unit as long as possible. As a result of that your front size expands by alot, so you need to be sure to have enough melee power to protect all the units. One important thing that isn't mentioned in the video and I haven't even seen it on his units is activating guard mode!!! This a somewhat necessary thing to play matchlocks as this allows ur unit to fire even if some of the soldiers are engaged in melee!!! This means as long as not ur entire unit is in melee some soldiers continue shooting which cause way more damage then having them fight with swords. Also not every small touch disorders ur unit and ensure way more salves and also better retreating options. One last advise I can give is a powerful combination of fire by rank AND loose formation. I don't really have alot campaign experience, as I play MP the most, but I have 2800 hours in S2 overall and I invented a strategy to beat Fall of the Samurai armies with traditional troops with firepower and matchlocks are the key. If you use fire by rank AND loose formation it is like light infantery we know from ETW or NTW. The chance of getting hit is so low cause the free spaces and crouching soldiers combined. However Iam not sure if that can be useful against AI as I assume it tends to be really aggressive and you don't have alot skirmishing phases. But aginst players it turned out decent. I once send a replay to a famous youtuber who showed my tactic in this video: kzitem.info/news/bejne/uYChuKeEbXmWpnY
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@trebor797 The time the first rank takes to fire is also dependend on wether you give it an attack order or not an the position of the enemy. ;) But I should've mentioned guard mode indeed! Thank you for pointing that out :)
@trebor797
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral Yeah I knew this with the attack order, but it turned out that on larger armies its better to let the enemies come and keep the formation. However this does not refer to campaigns as you can press pause like all the time you want, which allows you way more micro opportunities than in MP. But against other players its better not to give attack orders before you army falls apart cause they chase down something. Position is important thats what I meant with hilly or lets call it complex terrain. There the fire without rank option is betetr except you can fire down from a hill with your infantery infront. Like a small conclusion you could say compared both modes after 1 minuite of continuous fire, the fire by rank gets the win for sure. But for situtations with only short chances to fire a salve its better not to use fire by rank.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@trebor797 I mostly play on legendary difficulty, so no pausing for me during battles :P and i'm so used to it, I don't even pause when playing on lower difficulties (except when trying to get footage for these guides maybe :P) The attack order and guard mode is a bit finicky in shogun 2. I know it works really well in for example WH2, where your archers will simply not chase. But keeping your formations is very important.
@XXLPIakat
3 ай бұрын
I'm surprised the Oda don't have a unique Matchlock Ashigaru, since Nobunaga used them against the Takeda quite effectively.
@bucky145
7 ай бұрын
Heavy gunners are great for knocking out towers and gates
@Kalenz1234
6 ай бұрын
I wonder if the Ikko Ikki variant actually becomes better if you stack accuracy boni since the relative difference in accuracy becomes smaller but they have a higher unit number. 10 accuracy vs 30 is tripple the accuracy but if you get + 30 accuracy it's 40 vs 60 which isn't even double.
@apaper3978
3 жыл бұрын
These videos are great, even for an experienced player.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so! :)
@ryuji_thesamurai3877
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry I am late in the comments but yeah cool video also the Portuguese tecrocoa is so so when useing but idk what do you think
@VaNDaIUKR
3 жыл бұрын
Portuguese Tercos would be op if fire by rank ability wasn't broken. They good, but like all matchlocks - difficult to use effectively.
@ReviveHF
3 жыл бұрын
They are Arquebus, if they were proper matchlock during the late 16th century, then they were more powerful. Flintlock will have faster fire rate.
@ltmatthewakj2466
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I find matchlock unit is easy target for cavalry charge and I hard to take position before they launch a volley. By the time of the impact, tercos is struggling in melee defense although compare to the other of its kind, they are the best
@VaNDaIUKR
3 жыл бұрын
@@ReviveHF Matchlock is broad term, arquebus, early muskets, early pistols - they all matchlocks if the use match cord and some sort of lock. Thus the term matchlock
@bobwat2390
3 жыл бұрын
Why is fire by rank broken?
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@BobWat units will fire very late if enemy units enter their range. It's not too big of a deal for most units, but if you units have high reload speed you'll miss out on extra volleys.
@genghiskhan6809
3 жыл бұрын
For the algorithm.
@aeonidxx451
3 жыл бұрын
Curios to ask, is "A Quick Unit Guide" series will be continued in others Total War games? That format gives a lot of useful information
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
The plan is to do a quick unit guide series for more total war games. I'm currently considering doing both the Rome1 remaster and the Total war Warhammer 2. But I'll have to see how those work out.
@mareus12
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral doing warhammer would bring a lot more people to your channel, but it will be a pain to do because of the amount of units there is
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
@@mareus12 eh, I like the warhammer stuff, so I don't mind. Also, that just means there is a lot of content to be made! :P
@scripth3472
3 жыл бұрын
They bring weapons of smoke and fire...
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Such weird beings those europeans :P
@rathernotsay8185
3 жыл бұрын
Would you be interested in doing an interview with one of the lead developers for shogun 2? There one floating around here on KZitem, I think a lot of people are curious on the development process
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
That would be an awesome opportunity I think!
@rathernotsay8185
3 жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/mrCjnIyrbnaGq20
@rathernotsay8185
3 жыл бұрын
He’s in the comments under this video. Try asking him for an interview and make a poll on your channel for questions to ask him??
@totalmadnesman
3 жыл бұрын
Maybe make Matlock Ashigaru available without gunsmith, that would have buffed them considerably. But with all the tech requirements, Matlock units are hardly justifiable. As always, top notch video mate!
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion of part 3 ;)
@totalmadnesman
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral Ohh did I spoiler it already? ^^
@arnijulian6241
Жыл бұрын
@@TheVikingGeneral Oda matchlocks at 75 upkeep 1 vs 1 win against a Portuguese Tercos. Oda matchlock ashigaru are the best matchlock unit for cost against worth.
@maximilienrobespierre7927
3 жыл бұрын
TL;DR - either destroy Otomo in early game, or late game will be pain
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Haha, in most of my campaigns, the otomo get wiped out before turn 10.
@jlima5509
3 жыл бұрын
hey, could you do a video on naval battles?
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
I might do so in the future. But for now, there's plenty of other stuff I want to cover first.
@redeclipse4ever409
Жыл бұрын
Please what is the background song?
@calamitoso0066
2 жыл бұрын
I've been playing otome and I can't recruit matchlock ashigaru without a gunpowder building.
@TheVikingGeneral
2 жыл бұрын
yeah, that's the difference between otomo and the other clans. You need the powder maker building, whereas other clans only need to have the gunpowder art mastered. However, you can build the powder maker way before you unlock the gunpowder art.
@nogisonoko5409
3 жыл бұрын
I kind of regret bringing in 6 Donderbuss cav in an army, it was a disaster. Should have bring only 2 Donderbuss cav max.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Yup. They seem so cool, but then still end up dying immediately
@FiFiFilth
3 жыл бұрын
He sounds so similiar to MrSmartDonkey
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
We're both from the Netherlands, so it's probably our accents. ;)
@someotherguy3699
2 жыл бұрын
Um I have a question why wont my matchlock units fire, and why do they just stand there and wait to be killed.
@TheVikingGeneral
2 жыл бұрын
It could be a number of things. The first could be that they're not on fire at will. The second might be that they are instructed to fire in volleys, but for some reason one of the models can't/won't fire, causing the entire row to not fire. Or it could be some other weird buggy stuff. :(
@jabi436
3 жыл бұрын
YES TERCOS YES YES YESSS
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
Otomo intensifies
@TheRewasder97
3 жыл бұрын
Alternate title: Which unit has the more dakka
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
dakka dakka dakka
@eduardmart1237
3 жыл бұрын
Can you please explain how yo use fire by rank ability? Is it really that broken beyond repair?
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
You have to give an attack order on an enemy unit before that unit enters your range of fire to get the most out of it.
@cynfaelalek-walker7003
3 жыл бұрын
One matchlock unit is enough to permanently scar an army.
@YY-ug9mv
3 жыл бұрын
Otomo Shotgun 2 Total war.
@frostbourne16
3 жыл бұрын
Ikko Ikki Matchlock Ashigaru, with 3x unit size mod is like 600 men. And because it's a 3x unit mod, ALL guys in the unit fire at the enemy. How scary it is go have your Tercos dropped from 360 to a mere 200 in a single volley? Assuming no one else firing at the same target.
@TheVikingGeneral
3 жыл бұрын
I don't have any experience with mods for shogun 2
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