Totally wanna see the performance differences in solid silver wire
@EnlightenedSavage
Жыл бұрын
Silver, while the most conductive material, is only slightly more conductive than copper.Also electrons move mostly along the surface anyway.
@QuadMcFlyFlies
Жыл бұрын
So interestingly enough SunnySky was the first FPV hobby focused manufacturer to make silver plated windings. This had to have been back in 2015 or 2016. T-motor followed suit, and most of their pro-line motors have had silver plated windings since then. Back when the original RotorRiot Hypetrain motors were coming out I did a bunch of R&D testing of variants and I had the opportunity to test a couple of motors back to back with silver windings and without, along with several wire thicknesses. Some super interesting results. It showed about a 5% increase in performance in my testing over the non-plated wire, which is not insignificant. Another thing worth pointing out is the role of skin effect in this conversation. My testing also showed a similar outcome that you saw here where the gains were primarily in the upper part of the throttle curve. Rather than this being a result of higher Kv though, this is mostly due to the fact that the penetration depth of the current flow is inversely proportional to the frequency of the switching in alternating current. At low RPMs skin effect is playing a fairly insignificant role, but as throttle increases the current is more and more focused on the surface where the plating is providing an increasing percentage of conduction. I actually ran the formulas back when I was testing this and there's some interesting stuff related to the diameter of the wire and the thickness of the plating along with the PWM duty cycle at the FETs. There's also some interesting stuff related to this and multi-strand vs single strand windings for higher Kv and higher RPM applications.
@EMDRONES
Жыл бұрын
Yeah this is old goes to show this dude is new to the hobby
@IanF-FPV
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I remember too the earlier SunnySky motors with silver plating. Did SunnySky make motors for Diatone 🤔.
@QuadMcFlyFlies
Жыл бұрын
@@IanF-FPV Yes those blue Diatone motors were SunnySky R series motors. I don't believe the diatone version had the silver windings though IIRC. The recent Mamba series motors are made by RCInPower I believe.
@flapjackfpv
Жыл бұрын
Rosser strikes again 🎉 lol I even remember more recently the DXA Brother Hobby motors! Same fancy windings…. So far the most durable and best performing motors I’ve ever put on a basher build.
@tehllama42
Жыл бұрын
Yet another great example of the strange ways in which SunnySky has been quietly making some of the most amazing motors that somehow never caught on with the hype.
@openskeyedrones
Жыл бұрын
Let’s see a solid silver winding comparison!
@JaydenLawson
Жыл бұрын
Yes
@christhorney
Жыл бұрын
oh man i cant wait to see your battery testing! bardwell should send you his tester that the community helped buy for him that he never really utilised in the way he said he would
@Northbourne12
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing ask bardwell to ship you his that the community paid for
@RookieRay
Жыл бұрын
I really hope other FPV 'creators' promote your interest in testing battery packs. Please keep driving this!
@WipeoutFPV
Жыл бұрын
Ask bardwell if he's selling his battery testing gear, doesn't seem to get much use these days 😅
@kenfuciusfpv2800
Жыл бұрын
I think he started a Google sheet some time ago with some starting information on it. I don't know if he kept up with all the new batteries, or updated information over time.
@williamgambill3922
Жыл бұрын
Thank you sir your info is gold happy to see someone start to straighten up the wild west of fpv Motors and batteries are ridiculous in this Hobby I come from car racing for like 40 years and it takes Someone Like You To keep motor and battery companies from putting out the garbage I constantly see in it fpv it was done in cars a more mature hobby and made so many changes that nowadays not even the cheapest Motors are that bad and all it took was people like you thank you for your time happy safe flying
@sixtofive
Жыл бұрын
A contribution towards the battery testing gear. Keep up the great work!
@ztinnovatemotor
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Chris Rosser
@TheBionicbone
Жыл бұрын
Bring on battery testing!! Great videos Chris, I learn so much, thanks
@ls4life544
Жыл бұрын
Go for it Chris. Let see the silver winding motors.
@robert_g_fbg
Жыл бұрын
Batches of motors are like crops of wine. Cheers
@jtcustomknives
Жыл бұрын
Excited about the battery testing. You should get the test setup from JB. His viewers paid for it and he did some testing but then called it quits.
@thirtythreeeyes8624
Жыл бұрын
Should have compared it to the T-motor or Hypetrain silver wire motors. The T-motor calls it silver core not sure that means solid silver though might be a translation issue.
@califpv
Жыл бұрын
hypertrain is garbage, but T-Motor would be a great comparison
@Bannisterpost
Жыл бұрын
Didnt Joshua Bardwell do this exact same thing and get one of those machines only to test a few packs? I’d like to see this followed through but IM getting deja vu. I do like how you take the personal aspect out of rating these parts, I dont much crate how you feel about a motor or a battery I like knowing how it actually performs. Nice work Chris, thank you for putting this stuff out there.
@kallepetter
Жыл бұрын
Would love to see a video on rewiring a motor with silver thread instead of copper.
@Cloud1242
Жыл бұрын
I would love to see how silver wired motors perform. Maybe include a how-to for those of us curious to try as well? Thanks for the awesome content, Chris!
@dankusmemus2350
Жыл бұрын
I'm impressed by the efficiency of the Five33 headsup motor 2207 and wish there was a graph with the motors efficiency for the whole throttle curve. Thanks for the video
@ChrisRosser
Жыл бұрын
All the data is available in the Patron section of the discord server. 👍
@MCsCreations
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating indeed! Thanks, Chris!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
@Ozzy3333333
Жыл бұрын
When a mfg sends you motors for free, they would be stupid not to send you the cream of the crop (top 5% after dyno testing). So what you test and what we buy might be different.
@pav2k
Жыл бұрын
Done by T-Motors YEARS ago...
@willpowerfpv3246
Жыл бұрын
Hahaha, my first thought instantly was, "why don't we have a solid silver winding?" 😅 Absolutely interested to see how that would affect the performance. Great video, Chris thanks! 😁👌🏻
@SikhFPV
Жыл бұрын
Get ready for rocket high motor prices lol
@GC-sg9jv
Жыл бұрын
You could increase the copper amount by around 5 percent and save a bundle of money,
@willpowerfpv3246
Жыл бұрын
@@SikhFPV I'm already stupid and buy obscenely expensive motors..🙃 Gold-plated with diamond studing, bring it on!! 😂
@rbyt2010
Жыл бұрын
You should google “skin effect”; consider high speed switching ~= AC for these circumstances; ~10% weight penalty for pure silver. Nice test and motor. Luv to see the pure silver test
@fpvgiggles
Жыл бұрын
Yessss silver test plz ZZ!
@califpv
Жыл бұрын
was using Tmotor f60 for a long time, but I now use RCinPower GTS 3 and they're awesome. I might just have to test these out
@baggszilla
Жыл бұрын
Keep up the great work Chris!
@yosayogi539
Жыл бұрын
Silver winding on the way yey. By you Chris of corse. Great vid info
@ttararin
Жыл бұрын
Dear Chris, thank you for this piece. Very informative as usual and YES, please rewire one of the motors using pure silver. Very interesting. If results will be satisfying be ready for gold rewire requests 😊
@nixie2462
Жыл бұрын
I was wondering, would ceramic (or hybrid) bearings, vs normal ones, make a difference in flight times, or the gains of less friction in the bearings, would be minimal?
@b.w.oostdam8875
Жыл бұрын
Would really like to see the battery test !
@IanF-FPV
Жыл бұрын
Diatone use to add silver plating on the windings of their motors years ago.
@MichaelRogersJesusrules
Жыл бұрын
Thanx for sharing,loved the presentation as usual :) would be an awesome experience to see the silver wired motor and test results.thanx again.! Just a thoughtand i dont know if you and Mr J Bardwell talk or get alonng ,might be quicker if you could borrow his or sommthing to that effect? Still be cool to own one if you where going to test thousands of batteries...glad im not paying for them hehe.and again thanx for the videos,wealth of knowledge i have learnt from you and others in the past year.God bless ya Chris!
@tehllama42
Жыл бұрын
@Chris Rosser - Bring on the Litz Wire hand wound motors
@johnkurpiewski3996
Жыл бұрын
8:15 yes it all makes sense now !
@bambusgott4106
Жыл бұрын
Totally wanna see the performance differences in solid silver wire!
@fpvtea
Жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/k4Z32Wd9qISQf6Q Thank you for wanting to see performance.
@Inertia888
Жыл бұрын
If the performance was shown to be high enough margin, I would consider buying a SOLID Silver wound motor, for at least my most shiny builds.
@AnotherTrucking
Жыл бұрын
Yeah would love to see you rewind a stator and see the benefits wouldnt be so bad with smaller motors. I bet its a pain though and fiddley be a good vid
Жыл бұрын
id like to see you use all these random motors in a durability test. [performance doesn't mean much in fpv if they cant take a hit.
@hyperionyt
Жыл бұрын
Hi Chris -- I'll one-up you, let's test both pure Silver and pure Gold wire! Au has even better properties than Ag (for the reasons you identified) so let's "go big" and do both!!! 😄
@ChrisRosser
Жыл бұрын
Interestingly gold is a slightly worse conductor than silver, the larger charge on the nucleus holds the outer electrons more tightly and the extra electron shell is not enough to compensate. But if you'd like to donate 30g of gold wire to the cause be my guest! :D
@chadcarpenter9742
Жыл бұрын
I would love to see a silver wire motor!
@blazbohnec
Жыл бұрын
My T-Motor F60 Pro IV 1950kv have same plating so not something new I guess
@BuZZarDFPV
Жыл бұрын
Just curious, is it worth while to test the motor vibration profile as well? it is expected that every new motor delivered is balanced properly. However, I've noticed over the last year, that receiving a properly balanced motor out the box has become rare and I see no one talking about it at all. When that vibration is the biggest reason most quads fly like shit.
@rolisaenz
Жыл бұрын
Chris, ZT also have 2808 and 2812 motors, what are the applications for those
@MindRiderFPV
Жыл бұрын
We need axial flux motors. 🔥
@patrickradcliffe3837
Жыл бұрын
5:08 you should adjust the scale of this graph it really does not convey the differences between them. They are essentially five colored bars of the same height.
@luis_gbs
Жыл бұрын
Solid silver motor :D
@robertgiordano3452
Жыл бұрын
Solid silver wire would be sick.. then the question is would solid gold wire be even better albeit prohibitively expensive. And then.. would gold plated copper wire outperform pure silver wire?
@techstuff6829
Жыл бұрын
No, gold doesn't conduct as well as copper or silver...we use it on contacts because it doesn't corrode.
@terjeoseberg990
Жыл бұрын
Doesn’t the electricity mostly travel on the surface of the wire anyway?
@Evilsizer82
Жыл бұрын
i may not have dug back enough for your testing. what voltage on the motors is being used? what is the current draw across the torque curve?
@MrFadjule
Жыл бұрын
Diatone did this a few years back on their BNF diatone GT
@donnamarie3617
Жыл бұрын
Why just plated not solid? Heard of skin effect? Just plating is a very efficient use of silver.
@Krash_fpv
Жыл бұрын
There's a guy that does battery testing on all the plane batteries and all their stats and publishes a chart
@willpowerfpv3246
Жыл бұрын
Are they planning to add these motors to the website at some point?? They're not currently listed, only the two-piece 2207 in 2000kv, 1900kv, and then a few versions of the dad motor, which are all 2306.. 🧐
@JamesManimal
Жыл бұрын
@chrisrosser how about solid gold wires???? isnt gold an even better conductor than silver?
@n0nka
Жыл бұрын
I didn't see any test including temperature. Is that not an issue for these motors?
@Saifbak16
Жыл бұрын
Please make a video of motor with solid silver wire 😊
@modquad18
Жыл бұрын
Would love to see how a pure Ag wound stator performs. Also, do you have another way to make a donation? Patreon seems a bit slimy as they do not allow for one-time donations.
@onemanmob6756
Жыл бұрын
The direction of the current in a motor wire changes 12 - 14 times per revolution. If a motor spins at a moderate 10.000rpm that makes it 12-14kHz AC current. As far as I'm aware, with the AC current (as opposed to DC current) only the electrons of the outer surface of the wire flow. If this is the case, a good, solid silver-plating will be as good as a solid silver wire when making motor windings... What scares me is the possible arms race from Copper to Silver to Gold.... 🙄
@MountaineerFPV
Жыл бұрын
@11:40 yes!!
@MountaineerFPV
Жыл бұрын
Its time to expose the battery manufacture BS!
@kristianmuotka7523
Жыл бұрын
Please do the test. Perhaps that experiment would help manufacturers. Would be interesting how this would impact a tiny motor like a 0802 or 0702.
@eugeneforshter9564
Жыл бұрын
Would you also test li-ion cells?
@a84758
Жыл бұрын
Great video as usual! I always wondered why almost all motors are wound with copper, it would be very interesting to see performance figures with solid silver windings. I wonder if you would be able to get the windings as compact as a machine could though?
@yuriy77
Жыл бұрын
I bet he can do better than machine lol 😅. It will take more time to do manually, but I think better winding can be achieved
@aerialclone_official
Жыл бұрын
unfortunately they had to cut in some corners using 6061 aluminum alloy so I don't think they would be very durable.
@sethschneider9764
Жыл бұрын
I'm subscribing for the all silver motor
@Paxmax
Жыл бұрын
There has to be more to it than silver plating..? I mean, a full silver wire would only make 3% difference in ohmic/heat tests. You might get a very similar performance (+3%) boost by a thick silver plating due to the skin effect I'd guess, or square wire providing better fill-ratio + area increase + more "skin" to effect in. Chris did you test their kV claims? Maybe they have under rated the kV claim? I mean... the torque difference is massive both low and at high rip'ems. It has an odd curve compared. (Opinions here is from an armchair-fpv guy, haven't had a quad in the air for 8 years or more)
@ashingashinga
Жыл бұрын
what kv readings you got from bench test for those motors?
@agtjackbauer
Жыл бұрын
Hopefully other manufacturers try this out. Give us a xing 3 motor with this
@b.w.oostdam8875
Жыл бұрын
Bedankt
@slinkyfpv
Жыл бұрын
just get bardwell to send you his equipment.
@a-rockhenderson355
Жыл бұрын
2i have some xnova motors that are all sliver wires!!! they are sick!!
@CapnBry
Жыл бұрын
I'd be more interested in seeing how power fades as the motor gets hot. How much less thrust and torque does a motor at 70C have? Could increasing bell surface area with ridges cool them better and return some of that performance?
@MrFadjule
Жыл бұрын
there are a few motors on the market that do that, the added weight is in a bad place, so it's not popular
@MattyBluntz
Жыл бұрын
make the silver motor!
@chadsalas9658
Жыл бұрын
Do a silver wire motor i'd love to see how they perform
@losergene7002
Жыл бұрын
Please rewind a motor with silver wire. You have really peaked my curiosity now.
@h2o40fpv
Жыл бұрын
I would like to see how they perform. thank you.
@stevetrixfpv
Жыл бұрын
Do it!
@Flumphinator
Жыл бұрын
Why not just use silver wire?
@darkmann12
Жыл бұрын
the audio sync feels really inconsistent
@secretAurora9
Жыл бұрын
i want to see silver motor :)
@the-rc-science-geek
Жыл бұрын
@JoshuaBardwell did some independent tests a while ago: kzitem.info/news/bejne/1oKYn4t6a4eZfZg - don't know if he kept on updating that list...
@ignasanchezl
Жыл бұрын
Rewind the most efficient motor you have, to try and beat your charts.
@bakerman1231
Жыл бұрын
How about TOA motors.
@Petro_Bandera
Жыл бұрын
How about a gold?
@orphax1925
Жыл бұрын
silver isn't that expensive, around $0.5-1 per gram and I don't think the coils weight more than 2 to 3 grams, kind of a pitty to see them going only half the way
@Matthias-yy1sl
Жыл бұрын
Pls solid silver wire
@YorkyPoo_UAV
Жыл бұрын
Just wind the motors in pure graphene. Best conductor. XD
@arizkabir2628
Жыл бұрын
Silver wire please🙊
@mfrfpv9079
Жыл бұрын
Silver wire +1
@neilfpv
Жыл бұрын
I have a Brotherhobby Returner R6 2207 1750kv which is 2-piece motor(not unibell) from 2019 that I use for bashing! I'm still using it today. I crashed really hard so many times at CPP in Socal. I crahsed in CVS building hitting a concrete wall at 60-70mph and plus all the crashes it has encountered for more than 3 years. The only thing I've been replacing are the bearings. Everything else, stays! Today I did some research about it about and found out that the aluminum type used in the Returner R6 is 7075 aluminum which is very durable. Chris, the motor you were reviewing in the video above, what aluminum type is it built from?
@pavelbojda758
Жыл бұрын
Bad lip sync! The audio track is earlier than video track about aprox 100 ms!
@GC-sg9jv
Жыл бұрын
7% less resistance in a micron thick plating? Just increase copper by an unmeasureable amount - Gimmick here, not used in motors. If the term skin effect comes up, then a discussion about using multi-stranded windings should happen. (and it won't)
@ChrisRosser
Жыл бұрын
Multistrand windings are a no go for cooling. Skin effect is small for the switching frequencies we use but may increase the effectiveness of a silver plating above the ratio of cross sectional area. Anecdotally Ryan Harrel found ~5% improvement with silver plated wire. Some of this might be due to better cooling due to silver's higher thermal conductivity as well as reduced electrical resistance.
@GC-sg9jv
Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisRosser Retired EE with a automotive career with electric motors, silver-plated copper wires were never on the radar.
@rolliseventeen
Жыл бұрын
Why going the cheap way, please rewind a Motor with gold plated solid silver wires. Then we know, what is really possible. Back in the first days, there were some silver wired motors on the market. Even tmotor had a f40 or f60 with silver strings. Its not new, you just don’t need it. You will loose much more power in the false motor prop choice. Even if you take the best prop and the best motor is maybe a bad couple. ;-)
@Sir-Dexter
Жыл бұрын
silver it lol 🤣🤣🤣 ps gd luck
@nickcarnevalino7462
Жыл бұрын
sorry - someone mentioned your sound sync issues on another video and i cannot stop seeing it !! so i really make an effort not to look at your face when talking.
@scu-dub
Жыл бұрын
I DEFINITELY WANNA SEE A SILVER WOUND MOTOR CHRIS😳🤌🏼👍🏼Werewolf killer😊 nice name for em❤
@hazzahfpv6675
Жыл бұрын
Take Bardwells Battery tester that he bought years ago with the same aim and basically is not using... Im sure he'll be happy to collaborate ^^
@Ozzy3333333
Жыл бұрын
Regarding battery testing. I would BB log a few freestyle flights and also get some top racer BB logs, and make a load test profile (thro and currents) and use it of course checking IR with something like Wayne Gills meter. Checking temp, capacity, voltage sag, etc. Also should look into some of the 6s 5000 testing mscguy is doing, he is the standard for the edf guys, he is in rcg, if you need help let me know. Since you program, I don't think you need to buy a cadex/etc tester, build your own. Thanks for sharing.
@Alhussainba
Жыл бұрын
Copper's electric conductivity is 58 MS/m at 20 °C, as for silver, it is 63 MS/m. about 3% difference per meter, I think there's more than one meter of copper in that stator. I would like to see the silver winding, I expect less than 5% difference. BTW, if you do the experiment, consider repeating the silver plated tests with a manually wound stator, I think that value should be compared to the solid silver wound stator.
@ChrisRiley3D-Everything
Жыл бұрын
Heck yes brother, i would love to see how a silver wound motor preforms!!!!!!!
@MountaineerFPV
Жыл бұрын
If I have a few bars of .999 fine silver can you make me even better motors? Dat B da chit mang👊🇺🇸
@MountaineerFPV
Жыл бұрын
@10:40 i know someone who would happily test those motors 3D style!
@fearlessflyersfpv420
Жыл бұрын
how come yours are 2040kV, and the ones on the website for sale are only available at 2000kV?
@TheFpvDad
Жыл бұрын
The ones he has in the video are brand new in just came out. If you have further questions, I would be glad to help.
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