Your entitled to be a little bit lazy you upload in 2 languages bro. I appreciate your honesty
@mycosys
Ай бұрын
Seeing the gallium dendrites that had got into the micro-cracks into the IHS and pushed them apart was wild.
@elgonzo7239
Ай бұрын
It's the whiskers channel. Cat whiskers, metal whiskers...
@UncleKennysPlace
Ай бұрын
@@elgonzo7239 Yep, that's the term we use in relation to titanium whiskers.
@chrishexx3360
Ай бұрын
I appreciate the follow up and the science. Fixing a PC that has been giving you grief is a great feeling.
@KellicTiger
Ай бұрын
And what have I learned today? That scanning electron microsopes are the size of desktop printers now. Albeit desktop printers from the early 2Ks. That is absolutely wild to me. The last one I used was in college and it took up floor to ceiling
@JJFX-
Ай бұрын
TBF the whole thing is a bit bigger than it may appear in that shot. The white cabinet and section above are all part of it but it's still pretty wild that they're this convenient now.
@kayakMike1000
Ай бұрын
Depends on scAnning or tinneling
@MotoCat91
Ай бұрын
7:10 enhance, Enhance, ENHANCE!!
@dasiro
Ай бұрын
except this is not image enhancement, but REAL zoom
@briankleinschmidt3664
Ай бұрын
@@dasiro The detective shows like to say, "enhance" the image, but that's not really a thing. All they can do is zoom in and out. Family Guy pointed this out in one of its episodes.
@Alex-ii5pm
Ай бұрын
@@briankleinschmidt3664 the movie 'Super troopers' enhance scene
@DigitalIP
Ай бұрын
Sum1 watches SMA
@DzeiEidz
Ай бұрын
They can enhance a 4-pixel photo into a regognizable face. I've seen it on TV!
@br4252
Ай бұрын
You’re a great content creator. I think I speak for most people when I say I appreciate your apology. It speaks volumes that you realize a mess up and actually take accountability. No one does that now. You’re a real stand up guy.
@codygrinnell8676
Ай бұрын
He does everything!! From being a content creator to a engineer!! As well as manufacturing!!
@Somebody374-bv8cd
Ай бұрын
He was sitting down in the video though. I'll see myself out.
@eekpie
Ай бұрын
I call those fake sticks "dust covers"
@casoblantly
Ай бұрын
I call them "heat insulators"
@yanzombie-xl3nf
Ай бұрын
Or dummy ram, i have too, 2 sticks to cover 2 slots within my 4 slots, since i have dual channel only
@elgonzo7239
Ай бұрын
I call them "A Proletarian's Pride"
@peki100
Ай бұрын
I call them "First world problems"
@B0BBYGAMER
Ай бұрын
Corsair money burn pro xtreeeeam xt +
@amineelouati6496
Ай бұрын
Those microscope scans would make amazing desktop background pics.
@Jules_Diplopia
Ай бұрын
I love the honesty. Others could/should learn from you. Your fave toy is a Scanning Electron Microscope. Awesome.
@bligh1156
Ай бұрын
Absolutely, complete pro.
@dasiro
Ай бұрын
It would be nice to see a side-by-side comparison with a part of the heatspreader that was not affected by the liquid metal, because on that scale almost every material looks weird. Also: this would be a very good example of why NOT to LM your CPU if you want to use it more than a few years or sell it afterwards.
@TigTex
Ай бұрын
If the cpu is soldered, yes I agree. But if you have an older CPU that used thermal paste like 8th gen Intel, LM will not react with the leftovers of the soldering process, because there's none.
@drewnewby
Ай бұрын
@TigTex It's with the IHS, doesn't matter if soldered or TM. Anyone else reading this take note of OPs solution to just sell it off and pass the problem to someone else.
@Nordern
Ай бұрын
Would have been really interesting to see performance difference between putting it back together with liquid metal & if you machine the IHS to clean up the corroded surface!
@Nooben0
Ай бұрын
seeing a funny moments youtuber commenting on a derbauer video was the last thing i was expecting to see today, but im happy to see it.
@aFeect
Ай бұрын
Don't think it matters much, I had a similar issue, the ihs had black spots, cleaned the best I can and then applied new liquid metal, temps seemed about the same when I applied liquid metal for the 1st time. And 1 year after nothing wrong with it.
@GewelReal
Ай бұрын
@@aFeectgod damn, GTA SA
@draakevil
Ай бұрын
The issue is that the oxidation-resistant layer is destroyed. You could polish it away, but would expose the bare copper in the process.
@Dragonited
Ай бұрын
If you machine the IHS you will need to do the same with the edges or the distance between it and the CPU cores will be to much and then you will have to make a whole new hold down mechanism since the IHS will be thinne and you won't get enough preassure to be able to get good connection with the conntacts on the motherboard. As default, you have to screw down the hold down mechanism with a specific torque value so a modified IHS would not work directly. Though they could maybe use something else than liquid metal to avoid it degrading more.
@thedeegee1601
Ай бұрын
I want to thank you for your fantastic Kryosheet! Today i applied the Kryosheet to my PNY 4070 Ti XLR8, and the max temps drops from 83C (Hotspot 95C) to 74C (Hotspot 84C). It already had the pumpout issue after less than a year from the factory.
@offspringfan89
Ай бұрын
11°C drop in junction temperature is huge.
@thedeegee1601
Ай бұрын
@@offspringfan89 Temps could probably be better, seems my coldplate surface is flaking nickel or something, the affected area is larger than the actuall GPU die, so no idea. But the temps are just fine as is now, and i never have to look at them again :)
@piotrkurek79
Ай бұрын
A real man is not known by how he starts, but how he finishes.
@Need4FPS
Ай бұрын
It is cat's fault... cat hair underneath, making CPU not having a proper contact with the water block!
@benjaminfrohns
Ай бұрын
I have had this happen. Seriously. 😅
@br4252
Ай бұрын
Oof of the floof.
@walterrankin200
Ай бұрын
That has actually happened to me!
@walterrankin200
Ай бұрын
I cleaned a de-lidded 7950x3d and the Myrco cooling block and applied conduction air extreme to both and had to grab something else form the tool cart and my cat jumped her the case and looked down inside, I ran over and chased him off and put it all together, not seeing the small fluff he left had drifted to my chip. I was extremely surprised when my rig thermalled down before it completely booted and took awhile to figure out. Finally took apart to re paste and there was a small dark wad in the middle.
@walterrankin200
Ай бұрын
Conductonaut
@GrundleStiltSkin
Ай бұрын
the microscope picture is gorgeous, keep that as a backround
@frtls
Ай бұрын
A hardness or toughness test of the dark areas would be interesting compared to normal areas.
@esra_erimez
Ай бұрын
I love Roman's intellectual honesty. This and Gamer's Nexus are the only channels I "trust" for hardware.
@richardbeckenbaugh1805
Ай бұрын
Hardware Unboxed as well. They and Gamers Nexus have a pretty solid relationship. Basically use each other as a check on results, which results in greater reliability of their findings. If one reports on something, you can bet the other is not far behind.
@brucepreston3927
Ай бұрын
@@richardbeckenbaugh1805I was just about to say the same thing...Hardware Unboxed is definitely on that list for me!
@bythelee
Ай бұрын
There is no need to feel bad for being human, or having an off day. Glad to hear the viewing community was constructive enough to point you in the right direction. That saved you a lot of headache, heartache, and time. You give us so much. I think it is great everryone tried to give back. And am very happy to hear you got straight to the actual problem. Not so sure that "fix" is good enough to last for long, but it certainly proved the point. Nice to have closure. But WOW, an SEM? What a toy to get to play with. Please don't mind me, I'm just jealous!
@tbone-d2v
Ай бұрын
Just switch to a 14900k. I heard those are rock solid...
@offspringfan89
Ай бұрын
🤣
@PT-rg2vo
Ай бұрын
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@petert3355
Ай бұрын
Well they do a really good impersonation of a Brick I'm told......
@CalgarGTX
Ай бұрын
Yeah they are solid rocks
@BudgetGamer92
Ай бұрын
The integrity here is immense, thank you for your honesty even if it's something a trivial as not getting to the bottom of why the CPU was overheating. You could see how genuine you were being, and seeing this for a mere KZitem video inspires great confidence in the Thermal Grizzly brand. I'm never had any issues and the performance to price difference is crazy. This man is on a mission to hold the PC industry to a new standard!
@travisholt92
Ай бұрын
Admittedly, I was a bit disappointed when I saw the last video blow off the issue rather than go into a deep investigation. This seems much more on track with your channel history. Thank you for digging deeper into your own issue 😂 we the community greatly appreciate the quality content
@Gamecapturevideo
Ай бұрын
Electron scan everything from now on, just to be sure 🤩
@Ozz465
Ай бұрын
Never put much thought into it , but the micro scope views and analysis of what the black material was actual composed of really impressed me .Clearly i must watch more videos. Well done .
@jaywhite15_AL
Ай бұрын
"So we put the sample in our SEM..." hol up. THIS is the kind of content I LOVE to watch. You need to find a 13900KS that has problems and do a microscope look with the SEM at the on-die cache and just a general look at the VIAs. It would be amazing to see... and see if corrosion is partly to blame.
@MD_Builds
Ай бұрын
Ahh good to see getting to the bottom of the issue... Now the IHS ... if liquid metal caused the damage to the IHS by eating into the metals and amalgamating with it. Wouldnt putting more gallium liquid metel onto it just make it worse? The damage has been done but the process was likely slowed down by the gallium already amalgamating itself where it ate into it. But by cleaning it, you just added fresh gallium onto an already corroded part, tis just going to eat deeper and quicker into the metal. Wouldnt it be better to try and resolder the IHS back on? Also ever since liquid metal interfaces were being popularised, this amalgamation issue with gallium was always on my mind, and I didnt trust its use... I guess this issue youve come into is just proof that liquid metal isnt a long term solution to cpu cooling.
@BSEUNHIR
Ай бұрын
Yes, in the long term this will be a problem again. At which point you scrub off all the oxide again and do the whole process again. The gamble now is that the useful life for this CPU is short enough that the dealing with the metal corrosion takes less time than trying to resolder the IHS. Honestly, that sounds really hard and I have no idea how feasible it is.
@betag24cn
Ай бұрын
yes, it needs to be replaced with a direct die solution or another ihs, gallium will do this again or speed up the destruction procesd, in a year or two it will make craters on that ihs
@JohnDuthie
Ай бұрын
@@MD_Builds RIP the days when Intel used thermal paste instead of solder. The change must have caused a lot of problems for TG.
@JJFX-
Ай бұрын
This is a complicated topic but even on bare copper after a few applications the amalgamation slows down considerably. I'd expect a similar outcome in most cases. What's notable here is the ammount of oxidation and the interaction with the gold layer. It looks this amalgamation caused this layer to weaken and seperate from surface below, which I assume is the same nickel plating around it. I'd imagine sealing off the IHS can help minimize oxidation problems, which Roman didn't seem to do and the area is larger than most CPUs. However I've used LM under an unsealed IHS for many years and they weren't without some issues but this is quite extreme. The oxidation reaction of galinstan can effectively become non-self-limiting with temperature in certain conditions that are above my head and I'm guessing the interaction with the gold played played a role.
@greebj
Ай бұрын
The Ga forms an amalgam about 80-100um into the copper. This loss of Ga changes the composition of the LM left behind and it looks "dry" and chunky. I clean this off with isopropyl and reapply fresh LM which dissolves any residue left into it (i.e. no need to be abrasive on it). Then the application lasts years (Been using LM on laptop copper heat sinks for a decade now). This does not happen as much with Nickel plated heatsinks But whenever there is too big a gap, LM can definitely oxidise and "dry out" like this
@JohnDuthie
Ай бұрын
Der8auer 2018 "Gallium in general also reacts with copper and leaves it pitted on the very top layer, but the reaction is not heavy so doesn't really matter to Thermal Grizzly. Nickel has the function of a diffusion barrier and doesn't react with the Gallium, which makes it a lot more suitable for the application" What metal does AMD use for its IHS? Seems like a hefty tradeoff to swap soldered indium for gallium. Scraping the solder is going to also create gaps in the nickle plating. I'm surprised the entire IHS didn't crumble.
@betag24cn
Ай бұрын
supposedly is copper, wity a layer of nickel to avoid these chemical reqctions, sanding it to remove the gold and the old solder didnt ended in the best results it seems 😅
@JJFX-
Ай бұрын
You're misunderstanding. The extreme failure you're referring to is a phenomenon that occurs primarily with aluminum. All IHS are nickel-plated copper and always have been. The issues comes down to the surface finish, scratches, metal impurities, oxidation, etc. All of which can be mitigated to some degree. In this case the gold layer also caused problems and no attempts were made to seal off the IHS from the surrounding air. It was never in danger of losing structure stability. Anyone wanting to rely on LM long term needs to understand some maintenance will likely be required at some point. In good conditions it could be years before notable problems develop.
@bsz6328
Ай бұрын
Well, my coldplate was nickel plated in theory, but now nickel got eaten away. Interestingly my gpublock is intact sortof.
@JJFX-
Ай бұрын
@@bsz6328 What do you mean by eaten away? Discoloring the nickel is common and there's certainly copper underneath otherwise you wouldn't have a cooler at this point.
@cabarethorror
Ай бұрын
@@JJFX- I mean the flat surface is very far from flat now. LM did not just discolor the surface, but I got an about half a mm deep, ~50mm wide crater on the coldplate, bare copper everywhere. It's an el cheapo block, mayb its nickel plating wasn't the best. On my GPUblock there aren't any visible mechanical changes. As far as my experience goes...
@novinovic298
Ай бұрын
Anyone remembers Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra paste that used mercury early on? That thing used to eat tops of chips and heatspreaders even faster than Gallium based paste.
@kiwibom1
Ай бұрын
Really interesting to see the long term effects of liquid metal. This makes me wonder if the PS5 is going to suffer the same fate down the line as Sony used LM instead of thermal paste for their console.
@Nightdare
Ай бұрын
Probably, and it's probably done with intent, for applying LM is a much more intricate process than TP application
@betag24cn
Ай бұрын
the ps5 never had a gold layer thst was scrapped to put liquid metal, the problem here was that the surface was not meant to enter in contact with liquid metal pst being repaired on alpt of repair channels do not show any of the problems shown here the ihs on these cpys came soldered, to remove it it had to be heat to melting point of the metals used to solder it on place, those metals were removed but made the surface far from ideal for this liquid metal
@JJFX-
Ай бұрын
The main potential issue with the PS5 is leaking but that's far more likely to be caused by the user opening it. The last drama around that was overblown. The console community just doesn't have as much experience in these topics. Not only was the heatsink intended for this use case, they applied a thick foam gasket around it to minimize the chance of leaks and oxidation. Sure, it may need reapplying at some point down the road but what you're seeing here shouldn't happen.
@exitar1
Ай бұрын
Hmm maybe silicone based thermal paste isn’t so bad after all...
@betag24cn
Ай бұрын
that and not delid, wonderful results that do not eat the ihs 😂
@Nobe_Oddy
Ай бұрын
HOLY CRAP!!!! You have an SEM?!?!?! BRO!!!!! WOW!!! How are you not playing with all those toys EVERY DAY?!?!?!? lol Glad you figured it all out :)
@myleft9397
Ай бұрын
Glad that you revisited this and analyzed what went wrong.
@EmanuelHoogeveen
Ай бұрын
I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it, because it was still a decent video showing different investigative steps. It just stopped too early, which this follow-up resolves!
@St0RM33
Ай бұрын
It's not chemical reaction..gallium still diffuses into the copper through the nickel plating because it's so thin (electrochemically plated on IHS) so it diffuses and leaves the indium behind
@argoneum
Ай бұрын
I just wonder… why delidding in the first place? Pure indium has better thermal conductivity than galinstan (sic!). Also, being solid, there is less mess with diffusion and accidental spillage. Do I miss something?
@v3xx3r
Ай бұрын
@@argoneumHe probably delidded it to see inside for a video originally then used it for an editing rig after rather than sitting on a shelf.
@argoneum
Ай бұрын
@@v3xx3r Thanks :)
@drewnewby
Ай бұрын
@v3xx3r It was to promote the delidding process and sell the tools and LM products needed to perform the modification.
@St0RM33
Ай бұрын
@@argoneumif cpu is soldered, delliding is only worth it if you are going to use a cooler on the die directly, otherwise it's stupid
@Psychx_
Ай бұрын
I applied liquid metal to my delidded 4570K back then. The first application of the stuff seems to age within a couple of months, as part of it oxidizes and another diffuses into the IHS. When you clean the surfaces and reapply some fresh LM after that thas happened, it stays long-term stable. I still got the CPU and MB, still have great temps.
@greebj
Ай бұрын
My experience exactly The initial application changes composition and loses effectiveness as the Ga is lost into the heatsink surface Had some installs last over 3 years with no temp degrading, when the fit is really good (my experience is mostly with laptops)
@lorduggae
Ай бұрын
the 10K magnification of the IHS would make a neat background
@illyont
Ай бұрын
It's good that you found the problem. This might be why my 9900KS slowly is starting to get worse and worse temperatures as well. It's being replaced in 1-2 months with a new AM5 system, so I haven't really spent alot of time trying to fix it. It's close to 5 years old at this point, and the LM application might need a little refresh. I will take a look when the new system is up and running.
@briankleinschmidt3664
Ай бұрын
Google says you have to reapply heat paste every "few" years. And, if your temps are rising, it's probably time. I have a 9th gen i7 - no problems so far.
@nazgu1
Ай бұрын
Excellent follow-up, Roman! 👍 That's what we are here for - not for an always flawless presentation (such a thing does not exist, even the best of us make mistakes), but for owning it up, being honest about is ans then following up with a corrected and/or extended analysis.
@paxdriver
Ай бұрын
Humility is so comforting.
@norkris8729
Ай бұрын
i feel bad for that guy that thought that the cpu was pulling more than 280w or over 400amps (in bios)
@DaKink
Ай бұрын
I mean, it happens. You're stressed and can't remember something from 4 years ago. But you owned this and gave us a result. Well done
@michaelthompson9798
Ай бұрын
tbh Roman, everyone is guilty of making a mistake! but taking accountability and admitting it was laziness that caused the issue is something that you don't see often so I commend you for your honesty :D In addition, a mistake is often a very good teacher and something which imo gives many of us viewers interesting behind the scenes look at the nerdy tech stuff that many of us want to see and can only dream of seeing in person one day :D
@stevetech5150
Ай бұрын
Integrity & honesty is hard to find on the internet. Appreciate all of your work and content.
@JonathanSias
Ай бұрын
I thought things were slowly heating up, I never felt so close - I couldn't feel us drifting apart.
@NeroKoso
Ай бұрын
Those zoomed pictures look amazing!
@Antagon666
Ай бұрын
Idk why, but having LM on copper heatsink for over 2 years, the temperatures are still superb to any thermal paste, even with corrosion. I basically cleaned and polished the copper twice, but temps didn't change at all.
@mitchk
Ай бұрын
Great recovery and work on this derBauer.
@brucepreston3927
Ай бұрын
Those scans were really cool! I wish I had tools like that to play with...Every single Cpu block or IHS I have ever put liquid metal on has done this exact thing...I normally just lap the metal a bit with 2000grit sand paper and reapply LM...The better temps are worth the hassle to me
@VTPhantos
Ай бұрын
I love pictures from scanning electron microscopes. Its always so neat, its just too bad they're so expensive. So, thank you for that 😄
@t0mn8r35
Ай бұрын
Very interesting and satisfying conclusion to this issue. File this under "There are no miracles."
@penzancepirate
Ай бұрын
As always a great video! I wonder if a pass with a laser ablation machine is doable on the interior side of the IHS to restore it to peak condition, i guess it will depend on the depth of that infiltration
@alphaomega154
Ай бұрын
if you ever doing a lot of "soldering" , and if you have sandpapered the copper nail on the solder tools so much that it has no more plating left on its surface(naked copper) you will notice that when you do melt a lot of tin, the chemical substance in the tin would react to the naked copper and form black residues that inhibit heat transfers. that doesnt happen when your solder tool's copper nail still well plated.
@shaneeslick
Ай бұрын
G'day Roman, Thanks for showing us what the cause actually was because it is really interesting & educational to see long term scenarios of products like Thermal Paste/Liquid Metal
@samehedi
Ай бұрын
thanks for the follow up! the video about that cpu was... weird, for your standards. you surely have your reasons but after the current one it feels complete. you're the guy who actually looks into problems and i love you for that!
@Punisher9419
Ай бұрын
So don't use liquid metal because it will fuck you're CPU up long term.
@rodh1404
Ай бұрын
More accurately, don't use liquid metal on a CPU you intend to use long term. It should be fine if you replace the CPU after 2 - 3 years.
@stanimir4197
Ай бұрын
@@rodh1404 i have a running & daily use 6700k. It's been over 6y since its 1st delid. I had to reapply the liquid metal after 4.5y as it got absorbed by the nickel in the IHS.
@Mariuspersem
Ай бұрын
not gonna lie, I started sweating when you took out the threadripper cpu *while* filming
@vasudevmenon2496
Ай бұрын
The magnification your SEM pulled off is impressive and history channel might use it on ET theories and proof of life on Mars and others. I hope someday we come across kryosheet like material for delidded CPU and IHS instead of liquid metal or liquid solder. After using carbonaut on my laptops and non messy solution.
@therealforge
Ай бұрын
I added liquid metal interfaces to a bunch of my machines when I first got it, since the thermals were so good, but I keep seeing stuff like this and dreading that I've got bad times in my future.
@elmonte5lim
Ай бұрын
I can relax, now that there's a resolution. Phew! I really needed that, after being left up in the air since last week. Incidentally, I've never heard the word: 'embrittlement' come out of the mouth of a native English speaker, which is not to say that it's incorrect, rather, that your English seems better than that of most people I know. Kudos!
@Freakmaster480
Ай бұрын
I hear it used relativelt often when talking in a more technical setting.
@ODIOPOWER
Ай бұрын
I have an i7 8700k delided by you (bought in early 2018 on caseking) still going strong to this day. Never reopened
@stanimir4197
Ай бұрын
around 4.5y the liquid metal would be absorbed in the nickel in the IHS. You'll have to reapply it.
@Leo99929
Ай бұрын
You're awesome! Great to see some "proper" engineering/science. It's rare anyone does anything like this.
@Taverius
Ай бұрын
I saw this same result for long-term use - 5 years - of conductonaut, even on standard nickel-plated copper blocks, it's just slower, and any mechanical wear from mount/unmount cycles will greatly accelerate it. The top of my Der8auer Edition 8086k looks similar, the degradation is just not as severe. The block it was mated to looks very close. That's why for long-term deployment I only use PTM7950 now, and keep a big syringe of kryonaut for bench testing.
@HackoDis
Ай бұрын
Glad to see it was a "simple" fix. I love seeing this kind of stuff, zooming into the cracks and see them turn into canyons, valleys and mountains is ... ominous. Which makes honey i shrunk the kids even more terrifying lol. Laziness will always bite us :D What are your plans to fix this? Make a delid bracket for the threadripper?
@glbernini0
Ай бұрын
Amazing how small & affordable Electron Microscopes have gotten since I first heard of them in the 80s!
@sirmonkey1985
Ай бұрын
I had completely forgotten you delidded that CPU. Glad people pointed it out because it was cool looking at all this stuff.
@chuckthetekkie
Ай бұрын
Everybody has their slip-ups. Glad to see it was a simple fix and not an actual issue with the CPU or motherboard.
@Johnwick-ed7vo
Ай бұрын
I am not a technical tech person, I video edit, yes I trouble shoot as much as I can, and learn a lot about from trusted KZitem channels, this one, jayz2cents , gamers Nexus and some others. Just kinda wanted to say thanks for us less knowledgeable folks that just want to build good stable systems for what we need them to do. Also at fair pricing. You guys are like my personal tech team. Everyone of you has gotten me through some problem
@AndrewsFKS
Ай бұрын
I known something that oxidize more than this IHS......intel.
@dikbozo
Ай бұрын
Once again, you show how to own up to your mistakes. Props, bud.
@Khromeichuk
Ай бұрын
I love the 7950 Gx2 in the back! I have one in 2007
@ger5956
Ай бұрын
Very interesting! Love getting to see these more unusual failures, the electron microscope shots looked incredible! 😅
@Almarracing
Ай бұрын
Incredible views from the electron microscope! Very helpful and educational. Now i got more reasons to avoid liquid metal
@HexerPsy
Ай бұрын
Good job on the proper check up! I think you went above and beyond! I remember wondering about the TIM but then excluding it as a cause assuming it was soldered and wouldnt explain the raised power draw. Now we know the cause, and I still find it curious that the power draw is that high. AMD cpus take into account their temp and with higher temp comes more required Wattage for the same workload. Ironically this leads to a downward spiral. Seems 'naked' chips overcompensate for the lack of cooling.
@huzudra
Ай бұрын
Looks to me that the uneven IHS caused air gap which allowed the LM to corrode and stop transferring heat. You need to clean the glue off the PCB corners, I'd take the IHS lip down a tiny bit to close the gap to the dies further.
@Plus_Escapee
Ай бұрын
I notice elevators have certificates showing when they were inspected. That should be done for PC, although perhaps not on a government regulated level. An info card, maybe printed in business-card style with the dates of what services had been done and when those services were done, with a windowed slot for that card on the case, could be extremely useful. Why remember when it can be written down? It was interesting to see the effects of oxidization and alloy formation in the liquid metal through a microscope. I'll never mess with it.
@pascaldifolco4611
Ай бұрын
My guts told me it was a cooling issue, but not knowing the previous delidding I had no idea what it could be ..
@jacksonsneed7689
Ай бұрын
I use Flitz polish to clean LM off copper and nickel. When I reapply conductonaut every 2 years or so, Flitz is INCREDIBLE. It's also great for getting LM off AIO cold plates.
@Javadamutt
Ай бұрын
I wondered about longevity of devices that use liquid metal especially with it entering the mainstream with Sony using liquid metal on Playstations. Even Asus has been using it in their laptops. I always thought Sony used it to get a slight bit more performance out of their silicon until the process improved and they would revert back to thermal paste and those early devices they didn't expect to survive long enough for corrosion to become a problem.
@drewnewby
Ай бұрын
@Javadamutt Do not buy the devices, they will fail after warranty due to thermal issues unless remedied. While not to the extent of the capacitor plague, it's going to continue to grow in impact in the coming years.
@ProfessorPolecat
Ай бұрын
This is why I respect you and gamersnexus as reviewers. Both of you are not only quick to correct a mistake, but you make sure to do a video explaining the issue and give a correction with the same level of quality as the rest of your work so people don't miss it. Most "corrections" when made are either hard to find or the reviewer won't do anything but a comment and that's all you get.
@UnbeltedSundew
Ай бұрын
I had no idea fake memory sticks were a thing, and now I want some to fill out some empty slots lol
@Dragonited
Ай бұрын
I would get more memory. If you are not overclocking like crazy or do some intense workloads, the more memory would be more beneficial than running just dual channel.
@elgonzo7239
Ай бұрын
I remember several years back, in some forum -- i forget where -- people (including me) were making a lot of jokes about the ARGB craze and that RGB-anything is more important than any other functionality. These jokes included RGB DIMMs without RAM -- which became a reality shortly after --, RGB GPU cooler cards without actual GPUs, 120 mm AIOs with 3 RGB fans appearing as fake 360 mm AIOs, and some more. I have to admit, i am kinda disappointed that there are still no dummy GPU's available that lean hard into the most gaudy RGB effects, so them poor sods can amp up the RGB-ness of their toy boxes even if all they run is an APU, lol...
@UnbeltedSundew
Ай бұрын
@@Dragonited I've got 96 GB and haven't run much more than half of that in the most strenuous processes (Blender, 3D Coat, CSP, etc.), and games don't even exceed much more than a quarter as far as I've noticed. Furthermore the board is only rated for 128 in 4 channels not 192, to really get the most I'd have to up almost everything. And since I have a ton of room already for my uses, the bling makes more sense.
@concinnus
Ай бұрын
@@Dragonited DDR5 is very hard to run 2DPC, so fully populating will lower your max speed dramatically. It's also quite temperature sensitive, so even fake sticks will hurt your max clocks because of inhibited airflow.
@antoniog8276
Ай бұрын
I've had this happen with my Titan xP. I use an aftermarket cooler and initially used LM. After a while, it started running super hot. Took it apart, saw the state of the heatsink, got rid of the liquid metal and used some Thermal Grizzly instead.
@cannesahs
Ай бұрын
Thank you for investigating it further. Really good video!
@legion3343
Ай бұрын
Those microscope images are so freaking cool
@N0N0111
Ай бұрын
So gluing back the IHS is a rather good advise, as this would limit the amount of oxygen to enter the liquid metal. Which would slowdown the oxidation process by some years maybe. Now we need a glue that is a very good barrier against oxygen.
@shawnduffy279
Ай бұрын
This. Whatever the chemical reaction was exactly, anytime you have oxidation occur it's because air was introduced. The IHS coming apart was hint 1. Seeing the black oxidized LM was hint 2. Those 2 things alone are bad but there could be others. Easy to see/understand with hindsight. lol But still an interesting video and nice to see Roman get his rig back. Assuming he finds a way to seal everything tighter/more permanently.
@N0N0111
Ай бұрын
@@shawnduffy279 5:37 It was really an eyeopening revelation that the oxygen levels (88%) were so super high!
@ropewash4432
Ай бұрын
@@N0N0111 Seems odd. Gallium and Indium both bind 2:3 with oxygen (Ga2O3) and Nickle is 1:1 usually. Maybe a real chemist will come along to explain why those levels exist or if the method of testing was the cause. My knowledge is limited, but while taking in scrap metal I noticed the spectrometer they use actually burns a bit of the metal away, maybe the test process freed up a lot of oxygen while zapping the metal.
@laserspike
Ай бұрын
Ooo, interesting idea. Could also use nitrogen as a purge gas before glueing it down...
@concinnus
Ай бұрын
The PS5 uses liquid metal with a foam barrier just to avoid shorts. Glue and airtightness seems unnecessary. Maybe just a smaller fraction of gallium would be ideal. You could raise the melting point to 90C so it flows during initial burn in and then never again, sort of like Intel's STIM, but hopefully thinner.
@markissboi3583
Ай бұрын
Watching fixer upper videos keeps reminding me i got take MB out & fix a few pins not all ram slots work Led magnifying glass lamp is all i have to see with 3x 10x cant use my cheap microscope plugs into Pc .
@R1L1.
Ай бұрын
Very interesting video thanks a lot for doing this, it shows nickel is not enough for unlimited use some day it will fail to stop gallium, and the package power decreases for some reason when there is less heat is also very goofy.
@reyalPRON
Ай бұрын
thank you for this informative video Roman. Hope you have a wonderful "sun"day
@toddbrewer683
Ай бұрын
So, you are human. Welcome to the club. Great job as usual.
@danytoob
Ай бұрын
XLNT. The final 10K magnification is now my desktop background. THX!! (btw, really good vid too 😉)
@mjaerkens
Ай бұрын
Thx for the update, I was losing sleep over this. Not really but I did think about it a few times past week!
@user-nt6pi7lr8r
Ай бұрын
Wow, fantastic! Ive never seen a SEM cpu analysis
@Kattakam
Ай бұрын
incorporating inert gas initially would've controlled the number of impurities on aluminum AIO
@alessandromartorelli3929
Ай бұрын
You are too self-critical and apologize too many times, we are not used to this on KZitem! You are truly one of the best and most responsible and at the same time modest content creators on KZitem, continue with the excellent work you are doing!
@mr_jarble
Ай бұрын
I love the effort you put in here
@Leo99929
Ай бұрын
I don't think you messed up. I quite enjoyed the "here's the problem, here's some theories, I'll get back to you with what it was later." It was fun to theorize about what was going on! Which means I'm still super interested in if both AIOs had the temperature difference across the input/output that you saw with the one that was originally on it? The second one you swapped out to test if it was an AIO fault might have been fine as the CPU was the issue, but was the first AIO pumping really slow ASWELL?! I just can't make the maths on the physics make sense unless the flow rate is
@SaccoBelmonte
Ай бұрын
LM is quite unpredictable. I stopped using it because of that.
@anonamouse5917
Ай бұрын
I haven't bothered with LEDs in memory since Crucial discontinued their 'Tracer' line.
@johnlesoudeur3653
Ай бұрын
So is liquid metal still recommended or do these longer term issues mean that it is no longer the go-to thermal interface to maximise cooling?
@username8644
Ай бұрын
Liquid metal is usually never the recommended thermal interface. Anyone who does recommend for daily use doesn't understand the cons.
@Raivo_K
Ай бұрын
@@username8644 LM is for tinkerers and people whose motherboards are not really vertically mounted in a case. For people who dont want to disassemble their CPU every year the thermal pads by Honeywell that LTT sells (or sold) and Kryosheet are far more reasonable. Even "normal" thermal paste like the Kryonaut Extreme that i use still dries out over years (especially on my GPU) and needs to be cleaned and swapped for new one.
@bhume7535
Ай бұрын
@@username8644 _Looks at liquid metal on all PS5s ever_
@username8644
Ай бұрын
@@bhume7535 Laptop manufacturers do as well. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.
@mactep1
Ай бұрын
@@bhume7535 I think the PS3 has proven that Sony doesn't really give a shit about long term reliability.
@yanzombie-xl3nf
Ай бұрын
So the liquid eating IHS
@earthtaurus5515
Ай бұрын
You saw those teeth! 😱😱🤪🤪. Joking aside, that magnification was absolutely nuts.
@zxfdoorfd9565
Ай бұрын
I had almost exactly the same thing on my 8700k, the HS had sort of bonded with the liquid metal, and had a lot of buildup and pitting on it. Took close to 5 years for it to get that bad and run into too high temps/instability for me.
@EweToobUsername
Ай бұрын
Time for Steve to make a video about you missing something everyone would miss.
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