I REALLY appreciate you laying out your ethical concerns in the first portion of the video--I had never considered that, and that is definitely some food for thought.
@themikepadua
Жыл бұрын
@@crouchjump5787 okay
@diegooliveras1952
2 ай бұрын
Yeah but he review s type guitars and tube screamer clones
@rangerdoc1029
10 ай бұрын
It can work the other way around too. I spent a decade chasing a specific tone. I bought dozens of amps and sold them all. It wasn't until I got a VST and was able to try hundreds of amp, pedal & cab combos, with make and model names!, that I found MY sound. Then I went out and bought it. As a middle class hobbyist, there's zero chance in hell I could have afforded to actually try all that gear.
@Joejoe-nt3gc
9 ай бұрын
I agree… i spent 2k on pedal and im still not happy with what i hear.. this is a tool that will help me save… so end of discussion.. i didnt steal it .. i bought a product
@dezertson2011
Жыл бұрын
The fact that IK support was fantastic makes a huge difference. People are dumping Quad Cortex’s for exactly that reason.
@TheMisanthropist432
Жыл бұрын
I'm with you with the ethical problem, but... wouldn't that be also valid for guitars? What about Harley Benton or anyone for this matter, each brand has a ST, a T a G style guitar. What do you think?
@harry-callahan-aka-dirty-harry
Жыл бұрын
Yeah! What about guitars?!
@Sperzel
Жыл бұрын
Even earlier in the chain.. all the boutique amp builders whose products are basically clones of decades old circuits with minor tweaks. They have no leg to stand on. And let’s face it, the people who can afford a Friedman BE-100 or whatever ain’t gonna settle for a Tonex.
@paulburton5150
Жыл бұрын
I don't think Henning wants to sell us his profiles 😂
@entspec
Жыл бұрын
WoW It only took 30 years but we've finally come full circle! I remember when the original Line 6 Pod came out. I got one and loved it, but many of my friends were all about "The Vox setting doesn't sound like a Vox and the Tweed Sound doesn't really sound like a Fender Tweed Amp". My response was "I don't care, listen to how good it sounds"! At the time absolutely nothing came close. I want a great tone to use in my music, the name of that tone is completely irrelevant to me! This is how I have felt about this ever since then. This is why I like the way UA & Brainworks and similar companies do things. They create a plugin in co-operation with the company that made the amp and pay them for their tone and branding. So you can have a good approximation of "That tone" while supporting the companies that make the physical products so they can keep designing and building great products for those who can afford them. One day I think we'll see companies releasing plugin versions of prototype amps for market research and to create a demand for a physical version.
@jamescuttsmusicjcm5013
Жыл бұрын
i was the same with the pod back then. i didnt care a monkeys for what the amps were supposed to be. i just cared that they sounded good. looking back... they didn't sound so good as it happens. just amazing for the time. hahaha. i wish i had this stuff years ago, but i am glad that we have it now.
@williamphillips24
Жыл бұрын
I'm the same. I don't care if it's a harmonic correct JCM800 or not - it just has to sound great in the context it's being used in.
@romankoschar9041
Жыл бұрын
Henning, first of all let me tell you that you do amazing work. I love your channel and your take on the whole gear situation. As far as profiling and modeling is concerned: I get where you are coming from, but at the same time we also use pedals that are made to sound like specific amps. You reviewed such products only recently. We use models that are named in a way that makes it clear they are supposed to sound a specific way. At the end of the day an amp is just a circuit. And circuits can be copied and shared freely. If you make it look the same then that's something different, that is violation of trade dress. So I honestly think that profiling is just copying a circuit. But naming it in a way that makes it clear that it is what it is is not an issue to me. I don't think that profiling kills amp manufacturers. Modeling didn't. And I remember a time when modelers said BSSMN50 on the display. What amp might that be? At that time amp sims still sounded like a caricature of the real thing whereas today the differences are suuuper subtle. But there is something about the sound of an amp in a room that will always appeal to people.who can afford it. And they won't be easily persuaded to give that up for a Quad Cortex, a Kemper, or an IK Tone X. If anything the afforementioned group of people use profiling rigs for touring. But they keep using real amps whenever they can. Profiling, much like modeling is just a convenience feature. And if convenience killed tube amps they would be gone twice over ;) All that being said: I would use profiling to profile my home studio sound if it were to inconvenient to bring that specific rig to a gig. But as of now that is not really an issue. EDIT: Why does it matter what's in my chain, in DAve Grohls chain, in anybodys chain really? It's a starting point for people. For designers to make a circuit that recreates a peculiar part of it. For inspired musicians to start their chase for tone. I mean I had to know what was in Kurt Cobains chain when I was a teenager. I went a completely different route after I knew, but it is instructive.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
Yeah the realm of pedals is the same thing. Crazy Circuits Magnatone clones, Killer v, and memphis for example. Maybe they had permission to use, that I do not know.
@sebastianstapf4271
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree. There seems to be a lot emotion involved, as rants happen to be, but the same argument can be made for all the Joyo pedals et al (and I love them, the sound for that price) and as well as all Harley Benton guitars which are living of the „marketing“ of fender, Gibson and all the others. So if there’s a valid point in that rant it goes for all the other „value brands“. And we can spin that for every household item. I’ve seen such an „old man rant“ on other channels before. Casino guitars was calling for a boycott of Harley Benton because they are copying designs. Duhh… And others for pedals. I think JHS put it well in one of their videos, different clientele wants different things. And some people can’t/don’t want to afford a Soldano but naming it similar gives me a better idea of a sound i am looking for than when it’s called „fat 90s rock sound“. I understand some things but I just can shake my head about the notion that cheap profiling devices will put amp manufacturer out of work. That are to totally different buyer groups. No one who can afford a Diezel will now buy a ToneX and the same the other way around. That all is a bs and elitist argument.
@jorvten360
Жыл бұрын
Touring musicians are thankful leaving their rigs at home and finally beeing now compatible in their studio with the app or the pedal. I wish they came up with a pedal with a full AmpliTube & TONEX integration.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
That may be coming, But Henning brings up a Good point is it a Copyright infringement, and are Circuits in amps. patentable anymore, I know in the 60's they were, VOX either had to pay someone for some such circuit, but they decided to use something they came up with to avoid the payment per unit sold.
@timolonnberg3205
Жыл бұрын
I agree the ethics. But what about UA woodrow, you demoed it as vintage Fender clone. What’s the diffence?
@EytschPi42
Жыл бұрын
Technically no difference, but you can’t make more profiles and share them online… the amp is a fixed modeler
@timolonnberg3205
Жыл бұрын
@@EytschPi42 I would rather pay some fee to the original amp designer than have these no branded profiles. For me there is definetely difference that I know that I play ”same amp as Keith Richards” or just play good sounding amp. Ofcourse the good tone is a priority, but the brand is also important. And I also want to buy these very well made profiles from the people who are professionals in making them. But I would gladly pay 40€ instead of 30€ to pay the commission to the amp designer.
@thjorth74
Жыл бұрын
Henning, you strike me as one of the most honest gear reviewers here on KZitem. You should really do a follow up where you highlight the licensing issues that exist with the ToneX pedal. I am specifically talking about the fact that the ToneX Max license is non-transferable. So if you buy the pedal and want to sell it on, the buyer will need to purchase their own ToneX license in order to be able to transfer captures to the pedal. IK Multimedia's standard response is that you can just use the free ToneX version and use that for the librarian features. But they always "forget" to mention that the free version will only ever allow you to transfer 20 captures int total. EVER!! to the pedal. Once you have done that, you are stuck with the pedal as is if you don't pony up at least $149 for a paid ToneX license. Why am I asking you to do a video on this? Because the wording on the IK Multimedia websites and the replies that the IK Media representatives give mean that a lot of buyers are going to get bit by this when they realize that they cannot sell the pedal on if they should tire of it. Not without taking a 2/3 loss on the purchase price. It is already happening. Frankly, I think the business practices of IK Multimedia are a bit shady at best. I am mulling over this while I wait for my ToneX Pedal to be delivered from Thomann. But I am already considering cancelling the order because of this license business.
@lolaa2200
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. While i do agree with you they should be more clear about that i would argue that it's also th job of YT influencer to clarify that sort of thing and not just limit themself to repeating blindly the brand's marketing. So the shame is charred also by the many influencer that haven't done a good job of informing us.
@pb25193
11 ай бұрын
I am living through this with their audio interface.
@FKA_Skull
Жыл бұрын
My 2 cents is let a user name their preset whatever the hell they want.
@gratefulpipeandcigar3239
Жыл бұрын
That was a great talk about profiling and brand-name amps. You hit the nail on the head.
@ahmetayaz41
Жыл бұрын
Lehrmann is hell of a drummer. Greetings from turkei
@PooNinja
Жыл бұрын
🤘🏽 agreed !
@octoplod
Жыл бұрын
I've been using tonex for a couple of months to make snapshots of my own amps and it has been great. I profile my amps at volume when no one is around and I can then use the loud amp profile at a 'friendly' volume any time. This pedal means I can take my amps wherever I want with out them leaving my home. One thing to share, when you make a capture if you have a good graphics card installed in your computer it will significantly reduce the processing time as tonex can use it to create the model. Also you don't need the capture box to make captures, it just helps.
@texacomann
Жыл бұрын
Interesting! Didnt know about the fact of the graphic card!
@octoplod
Жыл бұрын
@@texacomann Some reviewers complain about the processing taking hours on the advanced setting but it takes about 25 minutes for me and my grapics card is an old Nvidia GeForce 970.
@texacomann
Жыл бұрын
@@octoplod PERFECT I guess I have to try out the tonex for my studio. The Kemper was always to expensive. Its just a hobby.
@octoplod
Жыл бұрын
@@texacomann I agree, it is just a hobby for me as well. I was always interested in the Kemper but I couldn't justify the cost. I tried Tonex because IK Multimedia allow you to download it when you register a purchase of their AXE I/O unit. It would be very interesting to hear Kemper verses Tonex captures.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
@@octoplod Probably would find that at ToneJunkie or one of those. Who have all the units.
@rick.enbacker
Жыл бұрын
I like your ethics, Henning 🙂 I use a Laney VC50 with 1 IR and i don't really need anything else. If i use different IRs, it will sound completely different. I think one good versatile amp, a versatile guitar, and 1-3 IRs and you can do just about any style with great sound.
@williambaldwin7611
Жыл бұрын
Here is the thing...and what excites me about the tonex. I can get a good profile of my own amp and I can now use that for a consistent recording experience. I can also try other people's profiles and if I like them and I know what it's based on, I now know what amp I would like to buy next. You're right if all I cared about was recording, then it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case. At least for me.
@xxxShingTxxx
Жыл бұрын
It is an Interesting ethical stand point. Although how many Gibson and Fender style guitars do you own where the builders paid zero in licence fees to Fender or Gibson? Just asking
@jurriezaat1135
Жыл бұрын
Don't agree on the profile rant...First of all people that can afford a real Soldano, Fender, whatever will still buy that. A profile is not the same as a real amp and will never be. In the synth (rompler) world: everybody is using samples of Rhodes piano's and Steinways. Yamaha piano's (the real ones) are still being sold. It's not the same audience. Profilers are new business and not replacing existing customers (mostly). And by the way, the Marshall example you mention.... didn't they start off copying (sort of) a Fender amp?
@masterofreality230
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely love my Mark V 25, but I was trying out the software, and its unreal, if people are good at doing the capture, it can sound better than some other people can make a real amp sound. I have never messed with a high dollar modeller, and I am not a big fan of anything digital....until today
@JohnWiku
Жыл бұрын
Fender amps started from a reference schematic from a tube manufacturer in the 1940s, and that is also how the standby switch myth came about. Leo Fender made use of the available schematic, didn't understand the intricacies of it, included the sodding standby switch (that was important for the very high voltage tubes, but completely bypassable for anything below and including the KT88 tubes), and it's 2023 and we still have every amp using it.
@robertolsen9721
Жыл бұрын
I think your right. They joy of seeing glowing tubes and the smell is something else.
@dragonsquare2802
Жыл бұрын
I guess then you didn’t understand the main argument of the rant. 🤷♂️ Maybe watch it again a few times until you do 😊
@iurigrang
Жыл бұрын
I think this comparison is very weak. A sample of a Rhode piano can reproduce its recorded sound in one specific room. An actual Rhode piano has an in room sound though that you can't have just with the samples. The tonex is one clean power amp away from an in room sound though. And even if it wasn’t, rock fans are a lot more used to hearing a mic’ed up guitar sound through a PA then classical music fans are from non having an authentic in room experience. Industries die slow, people with lots of disposable income will continue buying real amps for a long time, so I kinda agree this is not the death of real amps, but by god is it a lot closer than samples are from the death of pianos.
@FunkyELF
Жыл бұрын
Love how passionate you are. I see your point but people paying $400 to get 150 captures at $2.66 each weren't going to buy those amps anyway. When you buy a multisampled piano VST none of that money goes to Steinway. I would totally watch a 1 hour debate between people on both sides of this issue... And I'd probably agree with both sides, lol.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
You and ME both, it is an ethical question, and does it have an Answer, we knew technology would keep going forward. When did it Cross the non Sinful use part of it?
@warrioroflight2781
Жыл бұрын
If they're making no amps, there is nothing to profile - thank you Henning ♥️
@faethe000
Жыл бұрын
There are so many amps on the world that they could all stop and we'd have enough modeled amps to last forever
@dinonuggies2276
Жыл бұрын
This has some serious "boomer is afraid of ai" vibes. Lets be real, if youre not gonna call the Profile "jcm800" its just gonna be called "brit 800" or something. You cant own the sound of an amp anyway. Neither can you own the look of a threadplate or something You CAN NOT draw a line with copyright thats not a slippery slope. Is friedman "unethical" cause it looks like a marshall and sounds "brittish"? Is every tube screamer ever "unethical" cause its green and sounds... well... like a tubescreamer? You either cant own these ideas, or you want to establish totalitarian Monopoly Systems. Theres no realistic inbetween Also, theyre not even just using those names cause it "kinda sounds like xyz". In this cause the tone LITERALLY USES SAID GEAR
@davelouis4004
Жыл бұрын
I purchased the SLO pedal because of the sound , not for the name , if it sounded like crap , I would not have , most gear heads would like to be able to purchase high end boutique amps , but for those who can’t , profiling in a small package works , it’s as close as we can get !
@davidalbrec
Жыл бұрын
That was an impressively well articulated, and in my mind persuasive, statement on the ethics of profiling.
@diegooliveras1952
2 ай бұрын
Yeah and he review and promote Tube screamer clones and strat style guitars
@markbois1713
Жыл бұрын
I agree with what you say about the hard work these builders put into their circuts. They are basically getting ripped off. But when you get up on stage, you don't have said Amp behind you if you are using some kind of modeling gizmo. Although I think you have an awesome setup of sweet amps. I personally could never utilize them to their full potential in my musical situation. They would be too bulky and loud. I realize I could attenuate, but I never liked that. I'm down to 20 Watt tube amps, and I still get told that I am too loud.
@RouvenKasten
7 ай бұрын
I still remember your video series on the ethics of Kemper profiling a few years ago. I once met Christoph Kemper at an event in Bochum and asked him about it. And asked him if profile swapping wasn't comparable to illegal MP3 swapping. He just said: "If I hadn't invented it, someone else would have done it. It's not a problem for me!".
@EytschPi42
7 ай бұрын
Obviously not a problem from HIM… nice guy….
@lugerard
Жыл бұрын
I’m tired of you preaching what is wrong and what is right! We’re not a bunch of elementary kids in a school. Majority of us here are professionals that just wants to see and hear about the new ToneX pedal if it’s worth purchasing. We’re not here to listen to your “Ethical Dilemma”. Do it in another platform or video.
@EytschPi42
Жыл бұрын
So you don’t know how to skip a chapter on KZitem? Do you need help with that? Should I make a tutorial? I will make my videos in ways that I see fit. I have thoughts on certain issues and I will voice them.
@lugerard
Жыл бұрын
Nope. You should make a tutorial on sticking with the topic at hand. I used to be a big fan until you started preaching. Shame….
@CountNetsrac
Жыл бұрын
It doesn't have neither a delay nor any modulation effects and also not an effect loop, does it? It's of course possible to put a pedal after the ToneX, but then you would have to switch it separately as long as it has no midi. And the modulation or delay would be after the reverb. In my opinion they should really have added an effects loop.
@jackmathers738
Жыл бұрын
Agreed ... no solution for time based effects. This needs an effects loop ... or full integration with an effects system like Amplitude.
@martinprice1738
Жыл бұрын
These things are fun. Spent a good part of today having a great time playing the TONEX dual rectifier on my iPad, sounds amazing ‘just like the record’. But, after all that I played through my real Victory amp and it’s like being able to breath again. The modelled amps just don’t respond like the real thing, for me it feels like they offer a much smaller tonal palette. I doubt many people would actually give up a real amp for one of these, great as they are. It’s a different tool for a different job.
@TonefulPraise
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think its a legal issue either as schematics cannot be copyrighted or trademarked. Sure, maybe they shouldn’t use the name but at the same time I’d much rather prefer the name of the amp vs something that is a silly close 2nd. It would pay homage to the amp and creator of it uses it and I would be like “wow, now I kinda know what that amp sounds like”. People are still going to buy amps and those using modelers are not going to go out of their way to buy a SLO100 in the first place, it’s a different target audience with no effect on their bottom line. If anything, someone might find the sound they love and then decide I want the real thing and buy it.
@Cpt_Adama
Жыл бұрын
If your interested in getting the sound from a particular song, then knowing what the profile is, is kinda important. Modelers are not going to stop the people who want and can afford a real amp from getting the amp. In the end the amp is going to be more versatile because the sound can be infinitely changed, where a profile is more or less a picture in time of a certain setting.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
Profiles/Captures are modifiable, just like the Amps controls. Is there a FULL answer?
@Cpt_Adama
Жыл бұрын
@@ksharpe10 Yes, Profile/Captures are modifiable within a certain range of the picture, but there is limit to how far outside the picture you can go. It's not like a true amp where you can go from one extreme setting to another. That's why captures often have multiple captures for different settings (or for a particular song) of the same amp. Where as a modeler e.g. (Axe FX) will allow like an amp to use any settings from one extreme to the other. Now how close that model is to a real amp is always up for debate.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
@@Cpt_Adama That explains why there are Bundles of someones actual Amp, Where as with my Vox Tonelab SE it was a different technology used. THANKS. And why an EFFECT like a TONEBENDER mk,1 might not have it's full Range of what the Actual effect did.
@vibrevtonez2421
Жыл бұрын
Ya because amp companies are completely ethical. Most amp designs are just copies and previous designs with small changes. I get there are people who make there livings manufacturing tube amps, but just like the internal combustion engine, we are seeing that being phased out. Most amps sound very similar anyway and it’s mainly the speaker your playing through that matters. Amps are becoming obsolete and it’s only a matter of time before you mostly see tube amps in expensive studios.
@fbaraky660
Жыл бұрын
That day will arrive when digital becomes really good. Right now, these products are not *really* comparable to tube amps.
@vibrevtonez2421
Жыл бұрын
@@fbaraky660 You’d never be able to tell in a mix
@petrkorinek9559
6 ай бұрын
Your philosophy is exactly my point of view when buying Tonex. I'm profiling my own amp to take it with me on the road. Instead of having the whole car loaded with an amp, cab and a pedalboard, I'm just taking the pedalboard
@Rockerrobin
Жыл бұрын
Markets moving too fast for Amp companies. People don't want to lug around a full sized 50lb amp and 80lb 4x12. Most can't afford the top amps we all want as the majority of us are not independently wealthy or play in arena filling bands. As great as they are something like this is just better and if big amp companies want to compete they need to drop their prices, release more so the used market isn't hyper-inflated or release smaller units for the masses who don't need such a crazy expensive amp. I like there were some small mini amps that came out recently but they only got release day coverage and then no one continued doing videos on them. if you market to the masses you will make significantly more than if you market to the top 1%
@Alex-ip9vn
Жыл бұрын
Hi Henning. Deinen Standpunkt zum "Profiling" kann ich nur unterstützen. Aber: Ich kann mich nicht mehr erinnern, wie Du zum letzten Mal einen richtigen Lautsprecher verwendet hast. Im Prinzip sind LSP IR´s auch nichts anderes, wie eine Art "Profiling". Die Firmen wie; Celestion, Jensen usw. investieren mindestens genauso viel Arbeit in die Entwicklung und die Herstellung der Lautsprecher. Natürlich sind das zwei unterschiedliche Dinge. Aber einen guten Lautsprecher im Signalverlauf finde ich ebenso ganz wichtig. Ich weiß, dass Du hauptsächlich Studioarbeit betreibst. Es ist ganz bequem, über eine App einen anderen Lautsprecher zu schalten. Ebenfalls ist es aber auch bequem, einen Amp über die App zu steuern. Vor allem, wenn man im Studio nicht so viel Platz hat. Nur als Überlegung. Gruß! Schau dich gern! 😀
@DoctorMcFarlandStudios
Жыл бұрын
FX Return will be preferred
@hukl3945
Жыл бұрын
I get your problem with profiles using the names and visuals of known brands but here is an argument for it: When I get a pedal that comes with presets or models, I know in my mind that I want to go for a Fender'ish sound and the visuals and names will help me quickly find the sound I'm after. If I want an Orangy kind of sound, I know what to look for. I'd do the same if I'd profile my amps - simply to find quicker what I want. It would be great though if a manufacturer like IK comes out with a pedal that has these presets, that a commission would be paid to the manufacturers.
@chrischris3847
3 ай бұрын
Amazing demo, just great ! To be improved : missing an on-board DELAY, but mostly an FX LOOP, and an integrated EXPRESSION PEDAL. Then, this will become the winner in the game
@shorerocks
Жыл бұрын
It might just be a preamp from the Synergy system, but I bought a Bogner Überschall just because I fell in love with a corresponding Kemper profile.
@Crackshot729
Жыл бұрын
If you're looking for a particular sound, it usually comes with a picture in your head of which amp does that. For example, if I want to play AC/DC, I'm going to aim for a Plexi or a JCM800. I don't really care that this is an expensive amp that I can't own, I'm simply wanting a quick way to find the sound I'm looking for. That black and gold thumbnail image may help me find it more quickly. And if the manufacturers are ok with getting some kind of royalty, it's a win-win.
@briantomkinson7134
Жыл бұрын
Spot on in regards to the "got to have the soldano" rant, I am lucky to have recently acquired the Quad Cortex, I don't care what the names are as long as I get the sound I am after. It does deliver in regards to that.
@philf4086
10 ай бұрын
I find that your "rant" was not really a rant, but more of a logical informed presentation. Very thoughtful, and it made me think about the modelers that I use. Now, some amp builders "license" their name and even help the modeling company cultivate the model. That is their choice. Great video!
@tobiasheinrich104
Жыл бұрын
After getting Tonex, I honestly just listened to the tone of the profile and deleted everything that didn't sound superb. Now I have about 150 amp/cab combinations left and they ALL come from all sorts of different amps, not even necessarily expensive ones.
@hereonmars
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking this too. I just ordered mine and I'm thinking I want to get sounds from my boss katana using pedals I built myself in front of it that I love.
@hereonmars
Жыл бұрын
We need a contest where everyone makes an instrumental track called "Drop D Catastrophe" 🤣
@xxxShingTxxx
Жыл бұрын
Tbf this video has definitely got me thinking 😂. I do get your point, but I’m not sure it holds up in the wider context of the industry. What about all the all of the pickup winders selling replica PAF and vintage pickups? The Lolas in your Eastman are literally clones in both sounds and looks of other builders intellectual property. They are clones of a PATENT, applied for Pickup!!! You have what is almost a Les Paul clone in shot for the whole video! Mahogany body, maple top, P90 pickups? Did that builder make that shape, look and sound desirable? Did they pay anything to the people who did? I do love the channel for the honest no bull approach. Not sure I buy this argument though
@nobodyhaslogin
3 ай бұрын
TBH, that's a good point in the rant part. All I can say - honestly I don't care that much about the looks and branding if the sound is right for me. All I want to know is how can I replicate it? If I find it on a profiler (without knowing any background for the most amps), can I replicate it somehow without the Tonex pedal? Also a big question: if I like the sound I designed in this profiler or in a software, should I be forced to learn about different sounds of different amps again or is it fine for me to roughly know the amp and the cab I used in software? Just a thought. Also I know it's too late for you (seen your review of Tonex One), but still, it's a thought.
@xy7582
Жыл бұрын
On profile ethics: Yes, I wanna know what amp model is behind it. Because that makes it way easier work with. Take the Diezel: I once tried a modeled version ("Deity Crunch", Line 6) and didn't get anything cool out of it. So I looked it up, found out it's supposed to be a Diezel and then searched for ways to dial it in. And voila: It clicked. With some gear, fiddling around is gonna get you nowhere (eg. Metal Zone), so that's why original names can be super important. That's not to say your position is unreasonable, I agree with a lot of what you said.
@willchug
Жыл бұрын
Yep, maybe could say based on. Etc 🤷♂️
@JohnWiku
Жыл бұрын
@@willchug "Inspired"
@Always_in_C_standard
Жыл бұрын
This is the same as making a mp3 copy of a CD you own Vs downloading them for free. I'd be much happier if companies got paid for each capture you buy as having amp names makes it much easier to find the sound you are after Vs Face melter 4
@davidforbes72
Жыл бұрын
I get your rand and I think in the same way, but I also understand the guitar players. We all are seeking certian tones and not all are able to just to identify what they really want by hearing the sound. ( It's rumored some listen with their eyes 😀) I like the concept them having a separate column "based on" just to get into the ball park of the sound you are looking for and giving the title to be named whatever. Having a "based on Marshall xxx" doesn't mean it sounds good, but your in the range of sounds you like to be. And with the high amount of profiles/captures available you need a starting point to filter the data. But really good vid! One of the best on this topic.
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
And whether it is ethical/Sinful or not, Really depends and this is scientific, what the actual signal wave is, I saw one, the sound was so close, but the sign wave was different. boy is that getting or needing an Answer? They will probably have to pay a permission to use down the Road I imagine.
@enuxs
Жыл бұрын
Even I have a Kemper and an Axe-Fx III which are great tools, I always prefer one of my tube amps, a great guitar cabinet and some decent pedals with a high quality loop switcher. A real rig is more expensive and heavier of course, but I always found a profile, capture, snapshot - a sounds like current settings thing - too limited. And of course I like, that the money goes to traditional amp, cabinet and pedal builders. At the end that is, where all the great tones come from. Of course there will be the next Innovation and the next it never sounded better thing. But I love to design and built my own signature signal chain (with blood and sweat) with finest hardware representing my tone. And I also love not being asked to share profiles, captures, snapshots or having updates f***ing up my presets.
@jamesstrong8309
10 ай бұрын
I think the point of the names are so if you are looking for a Fender clean sound, for example, you don't have to click through a thousand John's tone or holiday tone, etc. before you find it instead you can search different fender clean tones
@JimijaymesProductions
Жыл бұрын
While I agree with the whole copying the look and other trademark stuff when it comes to the sound it is different. The rectifier is an slo100 preamp with a new power amp, the slo itself a hot rodded jcm800. Maybe brands should allow the manufacturers to licence their look for profile stuff. For me personally I'd use the tone x for my amps and plugins and pedal chains together not just to buy other peoples rectifier profile because I want to sound like my rectifier.
@richardmorris363
10 ай бұрын
I appreciate the ethical argument being made here. Same as the dilemma we went thru in the 90s with digital music.
@grumpyrocker
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree with you HP on the subject of profile ethics.
@andrewrwhitfield
Жыл бұрын
With 100’s of profiles it’s the amp name that would help me find my desired sound much quicker. The sound I associate with the amp name, which in turn I associate with the people who play them. Example… if I’m learning a track by band x, band x uses a gained up rectifier… so I look for the profile based on this amp. Just quicker and more convenient. I do get where you’re coming from though… suppose in that case of you just called it band x heavy sound. That would do the job 🤷🏻♂️
@GenerationGap69
7 ай бұрын
Totally fkn agree on the difficulty in setting up the capture. Been doing my head in for the last week. So worried I’m going to fck up my Marshall.
@KetogenicGuitars
8 ай бұрын
You are possibly missing the other possible application which is that ToneX helps me to find out which amps I really like and which amps I want to buy. Because all the ToneX amps are strongly labelled by the originals now there is one stop place to find out what sounds like this and that. Of course it depends on the quality of the modelling engineer's work but it is better than nothing. The old fashioned way is to buy them all and find out(after 30 years) that the cheapest and smallest is the one you like most. Currently I think 40% of the sound is in the cab. 20% is in player who is supposed to play something sensible. 20% is the amp. 20% is the guitar. In this context "The Cab" is only a FIR filter(impulse response). It means it has any kind of(arbitrary) frequency response compared to regular filter plugin. Then it possibly tames the amp and also possibly makes it sound delicious. More often not.
@Stefan-
Жыл бұрын
Its a bit ironical that you are using a Les Paul copy guitar to do this demo, i bet Gibson didnt get any money for using their design either. For me naming a profile with a name that indicates what is profiled is more so that you can know what to expect from the sound which makes it easier to find the one you are after. I dont really care if it the profile is named after the amp otherwise, as you indicate if i like the sound i will use it regardless of what its called, so i see both sides of it and do understand the dilemma for the amp manufacturers but i also see that there is technical progress and tube amps are quite old tech now so maybe the digital will take over completely eventually.
@EytschPi42
Жыл бұрын
Hardware vs digital
@bcrocks3935
Жыл бұрын
Damn you! I just bought a gx-100, while I still have an origin 20, a peavey 5150 combo and a PRS MT-15, and now I’m feeling bad for selling the amps to have the space and still have the sound! Now I’m rethinking my game plan because your 100% correct on your point! Not really damn you, love your channel, thanks for what you do!
@ksharpe10
Жыл бұрын
If you captured YOUR own sound from those AMPS, and then sold them that maybe a Legitimate, ethical use. You Captured YOUR sound out of that amp. Again Debatable, is there an Answer???
@klisher
2 ай бұрын
Totally agree if it sounds good, it is good. i never heard of amps lie the Soldano or VH, dumble etc.. before i got amplitube. (yes i know all the pre 1980 amps like marshall, fender, Vox and orange) so i dont care what its called as long as it fulfils the brief.
@foxmeisteruk
Жыл бұрын
Almost all amps are at least based on circuits that other amp builders have copied and modified. When it comes to trade dress, you don't need to make many changes to make it different, and in the case of "virtual amps", it's fairly obvious that an image is not an amp. FWIW, my Cornell 18/20 has a control panel that is almost identical to a Marshall Plexi, and it even has "Plexi" on the front of it, so I think if you are ethically worried about profiling, you should also be ethically worried about any one who makes a Fender/Marshall/Vox type amp.
@gurtana
Жыл бұрын
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the whole ‘gain staging’ issue - and that’s why the original amp and pedals makers are not being paid because the profiler is NOT the entire amp - it’s a snap shot of how the amp sounded at a particular EQ level with a particular pedal etc. So who do you pay for that? I don’t think it’s trying to claim it’s the total of the real thing. Once you move those dials on the EQ the algorithm is now guessing what it could sound like - it’s not accurate at that stage, and it can’t be. So again, who gets paid for a lack of authenticity there?
@HillbillyGhoul
Жыл бұрын
I get where you are coming from with amp models and business but companies have been modeling or trying for years,there’s still tube amps. By the time tube amps are gone we’ll be long gone anyway. By that time who knows what technology might exist? A lot of boutique builders can always do the same or switch over to building better frfr. Who knows maybe they’ll do better in that market? Tube amps can be a nightmare sometimes especially adjusting bias etc. Ultimately it won’t matter what name they slap on an amp sim, it will either be good or it won’t. Most people looking at a name of an amp sim will gravitate towards sounds they like best anyway so I really don’t think it matters what they call them. Thanks for all the hard work you do and really appreciate your honesty with newer products.
@DoSeOst
9 ай бұрын
I only care for the sound not for the brand. Also sound especially clean is in the fingers. Brand names are used for models to help people know what sound to expect. I would prefer descriptive language for this but like whine tasting that is very difficult to do accurately. 25 years ago I bought a Johnson Marquis JM60 with a second 12" cab. The amp models 18 amps with analog circuits. They are arrange in three groups of six amps labeled American, British and Johnson. I still like the sounds of this amp very much. Its variety was very usefull when I used to play Top40 music. Nowadays I tend to reuse sounds I like and try to sound like myself and not like the recording of the original band when I play covers.
@erik2446
Жыл бұрын
Honest review. Thank you!
@edwinwierzbicki3503
Жыл бұрын
5:13 What a smart thougts! I agree in 100%. I don't get the searching of digital recreations of famous amps and naming it similar to them... I don't need any little stuff giving me marshall, mesa, soldano names on any little lcd screen to make me happy. I like my Ac30, 1987x, but the amps aren't the must to play gigs. There are many little analogue, tubey stuff, doing the thing right without any digital fakes, AD latencies.
@Javier-qk7ms
2 ай бұрын
I would never buy the real expensive amps but I agree with you if we all consume profiles of amps the actual amp company should have some kind of royalty.
@RusticSpirit
Жыл бұрын
Intro song is awesome! Great review.
@TheOligoclonalBand
Жыл бұрын
Very well articulated. Wouldn't it be great if the amp companies do really high quality profiles packs of their amps themselves (with, let's say, a dozen profiles for all channels with a few different settings, with and with out cabs etc) and then include IRs of their cabs, to sell these? I would buy a Diezel VH4 pack or a Soldano SLO pack in a heartbeat. For me the Tone X would first and foremost be to profile the stuff I have in different configurations and check out other stuff. But to be honest, I would rather buy a profile pack from the company that makes these amps if I want a profile of a certain amp. If it is nameless and faceless I wouldn't care, but if I see a Soldano or a Diezel or a Bogner in the Display, I would want them to be from that company.
@rangerdoc1029
10 ай бұрын
I'd pay for that.
@SixShine
Жыл бұрын
I’ve had this for a while now, but mine is white. It’s called the Mooer Preamp Live. Jokes aside, how does the compare to the other “affordable” capture devices, like the afore mentioned Mooer, or Positive Grid’s Bias software/hardware offerings.
@peterjessop1878
Жыл бұрын
I agree on your comment if it sounds good then it is good. It doesn’t matter how that sound is created or whether it’s trying to model a particular amp or effect. Profiling or modelling a particular amp is more about marketing than anything else.
@kellyweaver2851
9 ай бұрын
The companies probably make money off of ik multimedia so I think it's completely legal and exciting that they allow us to use the amps we have always wanted to play. It also probably introduced guitarists that they love a certain amp company and have bought their amplifier. I think it's honest and great technology.
@EytschPi42
9 ай бұрын
They don’t make money from profiles.
@pmunkey1
17 күн бұрын
For me it helps to know, if I'm trying to get close to another artists tone, like Neil Young's Tweed tone.
@StratsRUs
Жыл бұрын
I agree with your reasoning about needing amplifiers to remain in the future.I also agree with your clothing styles.
@onlyguitar6521
Жыл бұрын
but you've been doing reviews on pedal clones such as Joyo, guitar clones such as Harley Benton, etc. Isn't that kind similar?
@hereonmars
Жыл бұрын
I do agree re the profiling being a bit questionable for the reasons mentioned. I would hope that within tonex, you can just build a preset with whats available modeling wise, and they would have compensated those amp builders. I ordered one and will be making my own captures eventually.
@seal-nowweretalking6753
Жыл бұрын
Welcome to my world!! -Seal
@TheFeatalion
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review, this thing sounds good! On the ethics: I personally don't care about how the original amp is named and visualized as soon as I can understand the following: is it clean, crunch, high gain; does it sound more "American", "British", "American modern", and so on, i.e. falls to a specific ballpark. If there are clear filters / label I'm personally fine. I just have no time to try all profiles available in the app / on the market to find one that suites my current needs. On XLR: I assume that IK expects people to use it as a pedal on existing pedalboards (at least that how I would like to try it). Because there is no delay on the pedal (at least simple digital) and no FX loop, I'd expect that most people will not put the pedal last.
@rudimassyn3015
10 ай бұрын
Im very late to the ToneX party - I Think the gain knob is not referring to the amp's gain setting, but rather the gain for your guitar hitting the front of the amp. I think the overall signal hitting the amp is boosted, not the amp's gain.
@texacomann
Жыл бұрын
If you want the amp you will get it and there is a reason. But a Profile is just a snapshot of a setting. Thats just a Photograph of your Setup, you can take it elsewhere. But for experimentation you need the originals! So do not doubt, everything is okay. Each tweak on the tonex is just a guess. Nö need to roar.
@kellygreenii
Жыл бұрын
Dude. It’s the same thing you’re doing. It’s viral advertising for the brands in question. Someone who needs a tone for a single song is never going to buy that amp. But someone who falls in love with a digital emulation is much more like to work and save to acquire the real thing. Because there is always going to be a difference that the trained ear can hear. The first time I heard a real Mark I Rhodes, I heard it half way across the building, and knew immediately that it was the real deal. All the digitally-sampled versions I’d heard (and owned) didn’t stop me from buying it on the spot…and it is still one my prize possessions.
@favoriteblueshirt
Жыл бұрын
Passion...that will do. Love you man.
@joanarling
Жыл бұрын
The profiles are not a matter of ethics for me at all, though I appreciate your POV. I have a Vox Stomplab, and I haven't even started with all the amps and cabs supposedly contained therein. I can hardly wait for what a 4x12 box will sound like over my 1x10 combo. Actually, perhaps it may sound pretty, which would be enough for me. If somebody really needs a, say, JCM800 with 4x12, so be it. Personally, I think that's rather dumb when there are so many good sounds to make great music with. Right now, I'm rather satisfied with the Boss Acoustic Simulator for my ES335 clone, anything else will be icing on the cake.
Жыл бұрын
oh try recording an amp with your cab and mic just as usual and then use zynaptic unfilter and it removes the cab by linearizing the source tone and then you can change the cab afterwards BUT in there it wil work differenty. The testtone will feed the program with infos about the clipping curve and the capturing of the Filtercurve simply goes into another place in the code. The Kemper can do the same, profile with a cab and then you can change the cab. The thing is the kemper can profile without the cab and that gets you simply closer because the kemper does not have to estimate the parts that would hide the cab while profiling. Oh and the gain thing, Since both create a clipping curve reducing the gain simply reamoves the clipping until you have a sine curve. And this is AWESOME. Because of this you can get the compression and the tone of the higher gain setting at lower gain setting ... this can give you unique flavors even the amp can not do. and you can simply profile at a lower gain setting to have this tone also. That is why i always make multiple gain and mastervolume variations when profiling
@ILoveTelecasters
2 ай бұрын
I’d argue that the profiles that look like the original unit might actually end up attracting new costumers that otherwise wouldn’t buy their product. No one thinks they actually have a soldano when it’s in plug-in form. But they might end up loving enough to buy the real thingb
@jaccob73
Жыл бұрын
The "rant" is great really. It should not matter (but for obvious reasons it does). That is why I am trying for all my guitarists that are using Helix to promote Badonk in the preset, just because it sounds great and it is not modeled after nothing particular.
@realpool
Жыл бұрын
I love the song at the very end with the dogs. Great feel!
@BradRocker
Жыл бұрын
Your 59 with the P90's just kills.
@ankigonzalez
Жыл бұрын
As always, one of my fab channels and reviews! nothing to add. Animals at the end!
@tostrmofo6686
Жыл бұрын
Hey Henning, I totally understand your rant. In my case I use an FX-Modeller with bunch of official IRs for my speakers and whatever amp model get's me to a good sounding tone - I really don't care too much which Amp it is supposed to be, but in most cases the model names will give good enough hints to know. Before I started with modeling amps and speaker profiling (which in my opinion contributes much more to the sound as the amp itself) I was very happy with my Bugera G5 into 2x12 vertical HB cab with V30s. I had about 25 pedals in use und was able to dial in any sound I would ever need. For the living room it was just too much. I sold all the stuff, made enough money to buy a Hotone Ampero 2, two active monitors and even a new guitar. Now all the sounds I can think of are in a little box which can be plugged into any PA. On top I can save my settings and don't have to tinker around with the settings of 20 pedals till I get "that one sound from earlier" back. I miss the feel of the hardware, but it is like 10000 times more convenient and versatile. If I could I would have 20 amps and 30 cabs (and 200 guitars) - but as an amateur musician it is not reasonable to do so - even if you could afford it (which I can't). Nonetheless you are totally right. The names and designs (or similar ones) should not be used in profiling and modeling at all. At least not if there is no monetary compensation for the companies behind the profiled or modeled components.
@JonathanKillstring
Жыл бұрын
Dude, I want "Drop D Catastrophe" tbh.
@bearmadden1776
Жыл бұрын
I first started paying attention to HP when he made the original 3 "kemper ethics" videos. That was like 8-9 years ago? Something like that. I thought, finally! Someone gets it. Glad to see that after all this time you're still true to what you said back then.
@igorstavtsev5962
Жыл бұрын
Actually, Boss products in GT-series, they do not “name” their profiles as Vox, Fender, Marshall, or Diezel, which is a good thing, fair game.
@igorstavtsev5962
Жыл бұрын
And, there are tons of tricks you can do with simple EQ pedal, in pre amp section, with current amp, no matter what it kind of, you can make Orange sound like Mesa or vice versa, or whatever, you get the idea. Actually, Henning, might be a good idea for a video? You have variety of amps, you have an EQ pedal somewhere I am sure, people might get useful tricks/settings ideas. Hope to see you again one day❤
@christianhausen5530
Жыл бұрын
Just a thought Henning: Marshall started by copying and changIng the Fender Bassman, Mesa Boogie the same with the Fender Princeton, Soldano with Mesa Boogie Mark II ...
@kiwiramjet5625
Жыл бұрын
Holy moly, your band sounds epic! Damn. I need to know more…
@Xperize666
Жыл бұрын
Ich mache jetzt seit über 25 Jahren Musik, aber bisher hat mich noch kein KZitem Video so mitgenommen wie dieses hier. Ja, leider hat er aber recht. Ich meine das ist ja schon beim pod schon eigentlich nicht in Ordnung gewesen, dass man da quasi als Anfänger gemerkt hat. Oh guck mal! Hier hast du diesen tollen Sound von diesem tollen amp, wo sie da ja auch mitgespielt haben mit dem Bezeichnungen und leider ist auch der Satz vollkommen richtig. Jeder der sich sowas kauft und sagt och super. Dann spare ich eine Menge Geld und habe ja doch die den Sound der ganz tollen Geräte zu Hause denkt an seinem Satz, den er gesagt hat und der ist leider wahr. Wenn jeder so denken würde, dann herzlichen Glückwunsch. Wird es bald keine neuen amp Hersteller mehr geben? Denn wozu sollen die noch neue Ems herstellen, wenn sie dann am Ende als pro voll irgendwo landen, wo sie dann nichts von haben?
@Xperize666
Жыл бұрын
Ja, aber blablabla. Wie soll ich denn einen fetten Metal Sound hinkriegen ? Sonst kriege ich doch keinen Plattenvertrag 🤦. Ihr kleinen D***batzen. Ich habe mit einem Boss hm2 und ein Transistor amp ein der erfolgreichsten deutschen Death Metal Songs aufgenommen (über 500.000 Streams alleine auf Spotify)Skin her Alive ,With Thorns in my Eyes. Natürlich geht das, es kommt nicht drauf an was man benutzt. Es kommt auf die Leute drauf an, wie sie es benutzen und wie sie es abmischen und einsetzen einfach mal googeln. Sunlight Studio und für alle anderen gibt es zb. Revv g20 mit eingebauten Two Notes Torpedo.Damut könnt ihr auch super mit recorden und habt einen eigenen Sound und unterstützt die Leute von Revv, die das Ding schliesslich auch konzipiert haben. Und das beste kommt zum Schluss. Ihr habt euren eigenen Sound, den keiner anderer haben kann
@rahzark
Жыл бұрын
When you started the rant I thought "oh god, here we go talking shit about copying impulse responses" but after listening I actually agree xD There is no reason to use the actual names and amp looks other than using brands other people own to sell YOUR product. This reminds me of the position of JHS on copying pedals.
@dinonuggies2276
Жыл бұрын
There is a reason. Youre not selling the amp but you ARE selling a profile that uses the amp. The amp is involved, and its supposed to sound like the amp
@tuenguyen5553
5 ай бұрын
with all the amp modelers there are always the true analog amps go first, so the analog amps are still have their worth
@sergigarciaprat
Жыл бұрын
Are you telling me that you wouldn't use a technology that can provide you, at the price of a Volkswagen, the sensation of driving a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and 50 more cars? Are you telling me you would call that a steal? I call it democratization of technology. And I'm loving it!
@RobvandenBoogaard
Жыл бұрын
The ethical discussion of profiling amps is the same with guitar builders copying designs of others. I can build an excellent partscaster and it would sound better then a production Fender, but it isn’t a Fender. Doesn’t stop me from buying a Fender. Same with the ToneX. I would still buy tubeamps, but love the convenience of having a profile of it in a box
@EytschPi42
Жыл бұрын
Digital versus Hardware… there is still quite a difference in how much gets distributed
@JoeBaermann
Жыл бұрын
Like the Preamp Live the ToneX seems ok, has some lacks that the none profiler Amp Academy does better. DI out with high resolution IR’s (what about speaker and mic ethics?) which has it’s own master volume and a high and low pass filter. If you ever want to run to an amp with cabs and DI with IR out to a mixer that seperation is a must, besides that why would you not want balanced DI out? While the Preamp Live does offer XLR it does not offer it’s seperate volume neither the pass filters, which leaves issues that should have been solved within the box. The amp profiling ethic talk is a piece of bullcrap, if you really want to put it on a stake you should apply that logic to guitars, pedals and other products too.
@DaringDan
Жыл бұрын
Load your amps up on this box for a show and leave the amps at home. Run it into the board at the venue. Done. $400. Insane. As a home player only, I purchased Tonex a few months ago. It's perfect for me. Don't need the pedal, but man is that thing rad.
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