I like the balance between the rogue hero specs. All of them being turbo-trash in D(umpster), not so much.
@mehmetozturk771
2 ай бұрын
Balanced as all things should be hm
@dotftw1
3 ай бұрын
3 Things I do like about your TWW videos; 1- You play all the classes on a good level, not like some other youtubers just copy pasting from other videos. Thus = proper content / feedback. 2- No " beta dps tier list " bullshit for click baits. 3- Honest opinions with constructive feedback.
@VesperalTV
3 ай бұрын
Appreciate that man!
@12Beastn
3 ай бұрын
“No beta dps tier lists” yet…
@JimBobe
3 ай бұрын
What are two things you think he can improve on?
@dotftw1
3 ай бұрын
@@JimBobeBy looking @6:30 wording is one for sure xD
@sidarahighwind527
Ай бұрын
"You get a big demon that comes on the back of you..." All of goldshire collectively chose which hero talent line to go for that instant
@berserked6280
3 ай бұрын
Love the video. Far and away the best comprehensive video of hero talents on KZitem. Really enjoyed listening to your rationales and honesty for each one. Can really tell you've actually played the majority of these and have an understanding of how each spec is supposed to play & perform. 👍
@mellowsunset7730
3 ай бұрын
Quick note on spellslinger mage: the frost/arcane splinters are basically just icicles. I think it would be cool if they turned them into little arcane or mana wyrms (think of the mini mana dragon from the TBC trailer that the blood elf mage drained the power out of - epic moment). Or you could summon a single larger mana wyrm kind of like the sun fury phoenix, and it could shoot out the splinters and then go explode on a target during splinterstorm. Maybe have them spawn less frequently but do more damage to avoid visual clutter.
@hennibsdp9528
2 ай бұрын
That blood elf was a priest though?
@AD690smcr
3 ай бұрын
Lol the demons coming on your back
@skyreaperskyreaper6453
3 ай бұрын
Sunfury feels SO forsenBased. Seeing those 4 meteors come down and once and having your phoenix do arcane and fire things while you are doing your rotation is so satisfying.
@Daimyo-
3 ай бұрын
frostfire actually just plays a lot more fluid. you're always casting instants and never ever waiting for anything to crit because everything always crits.
@Mito383
Ай бұрын
Unholy DK getting the ability to ride a mount in combat, having armies of undead and the four horsemen makes them feel like the freaking Lich King riding into war.
@EssenceOfTrance
3 ай бұрын
Voidweaver is one if the few talent trees that actually change your rotation and that is so sick. It is a contender for my main but it will most likely be warlock or mage as they have 3 dps specs.
@Necrodoge
3 ай бұрын
with hitting the acceptance stage of necromancers being their own class, after finishing what i wanted to do in dragonflight season 3 i started maining unholy dk i cannot wait to make my enemies cower before the four horsemen, i even redid the legion campaign despite already finishing it years ago on a different dk
@driiifter
3 ай бұрын
Rider of the Apoc is the toy store. Deathbringer is the hardware store. I'm actually gonna play Breath in TWW. You can do an auto attack/Rime build with it where you turn your brain off when you're not doing Breath, Rime procs are gonna be carrying. Just need to decide if I'm gonna actually spec into Death and Decay, have to give up a lot just to cleave with Oblit.
@Rokkapdk
3 ай бұрын
Rider its a frost strike capston for sure just on hero talents you got 45% extra damage on rp spenders and outside breath you just waiting for rime procs its kind boring as you said so i rather go with frost strike capstons
@wvjeepguy8178
3 ай бұрын
Survival Hunter main here. Sentinel has the cool visual and the damage procs are noticeable when they start exploding. Pack Leader, on the other hand, is incredibly boring. I don't have an issue with the passive damage procs, but they need some sort of visual to distinguish them from just normal attacks.
@taftvalue
3 ай бұрын
I think Hellcaller for Warlock should be A Tier. It's actually not strictly passive, because you do get the 1 min cooldown which actually has a huge impact esp. for Affliction since you are a 1 min class (Soulrot + PS Rapture windows); additionally you do get more frequent instant cast raptures.
@dotftw1
3 ай бұрын
@@taftvalue also wither turning immolate to instant cast is big +
@EssenceOfTrance
3 ай бұрын
Vile Taint really needs its cooldown reduced though. The spec would play much more fluid.
@chrismoore2720
3 ай бұрын
Why do everyone take another opinion on a spec if you have not play it yourself
@Metathrom
3 ай бұрын
It'd be nice if Dark Ranger made your character a beastmancer/necromancer of sorts. In WC3 Black Arrow would summon a dark minion (skeleton) if the target died infected with it. Imagine how cool it would be in dungeons, getting 5 or 6 skeletons and dark/undead beasts to attack your target. Would also be nice if you could proc ravens, bats or whatever with this hero talent. And damn, with Packleader being sucky there goes my dream of summoning a swarm of dinosaurs on my zandalari, or a pack of wolves on my worgen. Wasted opportunity.
@JustinPardue
3 ай бұрын
Too close to Warlock and DK
@Jayerei
3 ай бұрын
Just the fact that we get an instant cast Immolate makes Hellcaller A tier for me.
@TheStygian
Ай бұрын
Shado-Pan was a perfect excuse to let monks use weapons finally in combat! We have Taran Zhu's mace for a reason!
@robertbentley2897
3 ай бұрын
As a rogue main, this video hurt my soul so much. I really don't want to have to reroll but it was hard enough pugging to 3k M+ this season. It's gonna be even worse in TWW.
@christopherpittman2689
2 ай бұрын
Played rogue since vanilla but haven’t liked the direction outlaw took the last couple of years (I don’t care for it being so random and reliant on stealth). Switched to Arms warrior this current season and had a blast. Been trying out fury this week and I think that’s where I’ll end up in TWW. Feels bad to bail on a class after so long 😢
@Vanessa_exe
Ай бұрын
@@christopherpittman2689 the direction of Outlaw is so fucking weird. the idea was to make it *Not* about the stealth aspect of rogue-- and it seems now its all about being a shadow dancer more than sub and ass are. bizarre direction.
@zdendus1
3 ай бұрын
Pretty good tier list. LForward to healer/tank hero talent tier list. If you will make one.
@GURKS35
3 ай бұрын
This
@quintinbowman7993
3 ай бұрын
Need them to fix Elune’s Chosen. As it stands now I rather main my evoker than touch my Druid
@Flirt136
3 ай бұрын
Now that you said it im sure they will do that asap
@darcraven01
Ай бұрын
i feel like hero talent trees like keeper and totemic were designed for healing and then blizz was like "well... gotta fit them into another spec as well" and just fudged them into dps specs (you did mention something similar but only for feral's hero talents)
@mellowsunset7730
3 ай бұрын
I liked the takes man, I like you you evaluated theme, visuals and gameplay together. Balanced take. Hope they keep working on the boring ones.
@CondorWoW
3 ай бұрын
I started playing Warlock in S4 just to be geared for leveling because I am going to be playing Diabolist for the forseeable future
@Sir.Vinchenzo
3 ай бұрын
It’s crazy to see how visually appealing some talents are and some being a lackluster.
@Nienora
3 ай бұрын
And there be the hunter "hero" trees... at the bottom. Thanks for the breakdown... not as though I wasn't expecting it!
@Damingo54
2 ай бұрын
One nerf to the demolish ability on the colossus whether in pve or one of those 50% damage nerfs in PvP will completely kill that hero talent tree.
@Moz-.-
3 ай бұрын
Being forced into killing spree is horrendous. Have you played with it? it's used every 20-30s and every single time you're gambling with eating frontals.
@angelicdescent6276
3 ай бұрын
This vid has gameplay of hunter pre rework. So idk if this tier list is valid much. Doesnt matter much I suppose. I also disagree with trickster rogue and wildstalker druid. It is definitely the best out of the three hero talents. The unseen blades are a cool bit of damage with a clear animation. Specifically as Subtly I enjoy getting a coup de grace proc. I think out of burst windows the coup de grace gcd long cast doesnt matter much, because you still have some time to get combo points for another finisher anyway. Wildstalker is a perfect mix of resto and bleeds. Cat form damage with dots is fun to play around with, and the animation for the vines looks cool. I like seeing vines on all my aoe targets from the other dots i have.
@thewarhammer8707
2 ай бұрын
I know hunters heros aren't great but barbed shot proc isn't bad at all with master handler. Helps keep up time on kill command
@darcraven01
Ай бұрын
also the three at the bottom you didnt rank arent for dps.. oracle priest is for holy and disc (so two healing specs), lightsmith paladin is prot and holy (tank and healer) and master of harmony monk is mistweaver and brewmaster (healer and tank). none of those belong on this list anyway
@greegeree
3 ай бұрын
Man the casters are looking nice as a ranged dps main. I've been hunter since o.g. wrath but the underwhelming hero talents are kinda Making me look at mage and lock. I have a low skill plateau and need a lot of the gameplay features bm hunter provides to dodge cascades of boss mechanics while still doing damage. Would you say any of the non-hunters seem pretty easy for staying on the move while dpsing and having a simple rotation? Or would it be best to just stick to what I know and hope for interesting updates or reworks to hunter later?
@michakowalski5405
2 ай бұрын
Most mobile of mages and locks is probably fire but it's also one of the hardest. Personally i would recommend affliction warlock - rotation is pretty easy and u have lots of insta casts making you somewhat mobile, feels really great right now. Overall i would say that mages are more mobile, but at the same time their rotation is harder to execute - especially arcane lol.
@markuswagner8536
3 ай бұрын
"Wildstalker have nothing to do with Feral --> last place". Wildstalker have a lot to do with Druids und push the Dots to the limit. If it wont be nerfed to the ground i'll wait at the Finishline of the dmg meter for everyone who will come after me and serve some drinks.
@onlyme3
3 ай бұрын
The problems with reaver is it has alot of buff uptime. It might remind people of a certain red ability from shadowlands (Sinful brand)
@UziiTube
3 ай бұрын
For Windwalker having another cooldown and having it be channeled definitely feels a little weird. It throws off the flow of the spec every 1:30. But the animation is cool so that kind of makes up for it. The effects from the channel are great. The synergies are plentiful. The only other spec I can think of that has even more synergies and flows so well is Fire mage. Even better than Windwalker so far. I may be switching mains to Fire mage.
@StevenSvN7
2 ай бұрын
I wish they'd do something about Archon soon. Having it centred around Halo is so boring because all it does is some pitiful aoe damage and healing. If it gave more insanity like you said, or gave us some sort of burst through DP or a new spell, then that would've been a whole lot more fun. The only interesting thing about it right now IMO is that it buffs defensives and haste a bit which might be somewhat useful for pvp. But otherwise boring outside of that content.
@randomhuman19
3 ай бұрын
really hope lock aff is a valuable raid and M+ spec finally
@Islandlifefornow
2 ай бұрын
Looking for a new spellcaster to play; definitely not the fat bird. Boomkin looks boring. I can just hear sounds like "pew, pew, pew..." and that's it. Thanks for the ranking; this was pretty helpful!
@mattcyr2109
3 ай бұрын
I have no idea why everyone hates Aug, I love it I personally would love if they decided to bring more support classes in, I like that "4th pillar" instead of Tank/Healer/Dps Add support as well, debuffing enemies, buffing allies. I personally dont play Aug because I mainly tank and not a fan of Dracthyr :P However, I love Aug and want more support specs! P.S. The fantasy for Herald of the Sun is so cool, the lore--- and the fact that one of the talents specifically mention Tauren Paladins with "Blessing of An'she" being the Sun, while Elune is the Moon makes it that much more cooler. Really enjoyed the video, been with ya since dragonflight started. Keep up the great work bud!
@meke7777
3 ай бұрын
Because if it's good it's mandatory in higher m+. People don't like forced specs in their comps.
@quantumpoptart
3 ай бұрын
@@meke7777are we playing the same game? There have been forced specs forever
@danielgreen1194
3 ай бұрын
@quantumpoptart This is kind of true, but it’s relative. A meta is inevitable, some specs are always going to be better than others for specific types of content. The mythic+ meta has rarely been as centralized as it is right now though. Every single top push has a VDH, Resto Druid, Aug, and SPriest, with the 5th slot being a mage 90% of the time. When I used to play in BFA and shadowlands, there were over represented specs but it was never to the point where the comp every single top run looked exactly the same.
@meke7777
3 ай бұрын
@@quantumpoptart Ok, and then? People have never liked that and now you have 1/3 dps specs locked to aug to have even less variance.
@richiepipes8960
3 ай бұрын
They can literally fix deathstalker by making it apply mark from garrote and tuning it right. Thats ALL they need, but ask me if they will do it 🙃
@svarog8253
3 ай бұрын
Even god cant help rogue 45 days from the launch
@richiepipes8960
3 ай бұрын
Its infuriating. Sin is so good in s4 of df and now its gonna be shit again
@SuP3r_H2O
3 ай бұрын
You are obviously not referring to Almighty God
@stiggyla
3 ай бұрын
For the love of all that is holy THANK you ive been waiting for a hero talent FUN list nor stupid irrelevant teir lists based off beta/alpha numbers subbing for bringing the goods
@Boss-ot1iy
3 ай бұрын
The problem is that fun lists are extremely subjective. Ex: I prefer slayer warrior over all the hero talents for warrior. I agree with the tier lists dictating which spec is better damage wise than the other is completely dumb since it's beta, but they are more objective than fun lists. Just gotta test them out yourself if you have the beta.
@stiggyla
3 ай бұрын
@@Boss-ot1iy I agree inherently it is all subjective BUT the focus being on how the spec plays and the changes made etc is far more relevant. you can decide if you agree with the ranking of the Fun list yourself but having the gameplay being the focus rather than the numbers is in my opinion a far better way to present the classes while in beta
@Boss-ot1iy
3 ай бұрын
@stiggyla I agree with you. I was just saying that it all varies on fun by who's playing. Fun is far more important and I agree with you about that. I love the gameplay of Templar ret and slayer fury.
@Ryan-xs9px
Ай бұрын
flying off the edge twice with evoker 😭😭
@marvingonzalez926
Ай бұрын
Bro, down bad does not mean what you think it means, like... at all! :D It's not another way of saying bad, it's when you're so into someone that everybody can see and sense it. It's being super in love or downright horny and being unable to hide it. Shamans are not down bad XD That being said: Thanks for this video, gives me some much needed direction on what to level next. I rarely see videos ranking things on how much fun you can have with it. It's like people don't even care about being bored out of their mind as long as the numbers look good.
@vidarthearchon5426
2 ай бұрын
Totemic is honestly too convoluted. I'm an enhancement slut for years now who raids/M+ at a solid enough level and I can say that having to baby a totem and grab sundering again is just adding too much bloat rotationally as well as dropping some very strong passive talents. I know I personally am going storm with stormbringer for TWW and won't be touching Totemic until they address the amount of bloat added. It's great for Resto, but it's a big miss for Enhancement. Great video!
@RozekillDeadFlower
2 ай бұрын
I was looking forward to Dark Ranger as a Hunter Main... Now I'm just sad... Hopefully there will be some changes cuz from what I hear, it's disliked by a lot of people.
@bankroll4416
Ай бұрын
shafting monk with no skyreach
@Karyzn
3 ай бұрын
They should have made the new talent BM has that summons a legendary animal be yhe pack leader ability and dark ranger should be MM and Survival...
@bertreynolds8146
Ай бұрын
I was looking for reasons for maining rogue for the first time but im really sad about what im hearing
@MehuMummo
Ай бұрын
Good that I rerolled from rogue to bdk/unholy or frost dk
@nickolasroper3237
2 ай бұрын
I wonder if you took the Legion development time and final product and compared that with the TWW development time and final product how they would compare. I feel like Legion basically hit it out the park, and TWW is just hitting it past the pitchers mound for me.
@kcjgs5831
3 ай бұрын
Bruh that area @ 00:59 is basically the same as Necrotic Wake, back in shadowlands lol before the dragon boss
@ieatpoza
3 ай бұрын
I think you are a bit bias on the pet stuff, personally I don't like any abilities where you press a button, shiny pet comes out for x amount of time, then disappears.
@AmanitaMuscarias
3 ай бұрын
Worried about the druid hero talent trees being under tuned. 😳
@MrZemIan
2 ай бұрын
Yeah, I was SUPER excited for the dark ranger, but it's very underwhelming from what I've seen so far. The fact that they made the wailing arrow something you need to build up to was just the lack of icing on the cake. The hunters are the least appealing class both when it comes to the visuals and sound. For example the rapid fire animation just looks retarded. The aimed shot is very basic and the new black arrow could've been so much cooler. Haven't seen the capstone ability yet I think, or perhaps it's also so subtle that it doesn't really do much in a video format. I think they should have made it so other abilities gets a shadow twist (but make it optional because perhaps not everyone want that 'true' dark ranger visual) and made both the wailing arrow and black arrow pop a lot more as well. I wanted to main hunter because I love the dark ranger fantasy, but it's just so underwhelming sadly. I'll still try it but as it stands currently it will not be a main character, that's for sure. So much wasted potential.
@MacGregor3
3 ай бұрын
Archon let me to beleive it would d3 archon like and focused around voidform and enhancing that, so while halo defo does good dmg and the extra haste from pi is nice, it just feels so underwhelming to play.
@twentyfifth_night
2 ай бұрын
"Arrows are hard to make it appealing" Meanwhile ffxiv bards
@SheinelI
Ай бұрын
Nah its way too much on BRD
@petrsilhavy7401
3 ай бұрын
Personaly i was hoping for big overhaul of most specs. Since we are still playing more or less legion builds. I think many specs are fine, for example windwalker is always fun thanks to his mastery. What ww needs most is visual update, including childish and nonsense pandaren icons(tiger palm for example) while ww can be played by every single race so it doesnt make sense. Thought hero talents could serve as "skin" and some added theme. So yeah iam not very excited about hero talents.
@utkukilicci2896
2 ай бұрын
What is the music playing in the background 8:17 ?
@user-zn1db9fe5w
2 ай бұрын
unh dk is S TIER by far...
@etzu_gaming4779
3 ай бұрын
Shadopan is by far the worst... so out of sync... feels terrible to track and set up this is almost impossible...
@turkking11
3 ай бұрын
rogue one of the original classes, playing past 15yrs on the one class... rogues always get shaffted by bliz...
@zepp1337
2 ай бұрын
Background music is from Star Wars, right?
@Odyssey636
Ай бұрын
Bro has deathbringer below riders of apocalypse no shot😂 its not even close. Death bringer is almost 3x better
@Funkloving
3 ай бұрын
Any chance to do this with tanks instead? :)
@min_nari
12 күн бұрын
what happened to rogue in TWW?
@chrisofblades5167
3 ай бұрын
WoW... Rogue needs help somthing so simple to fix, but only idiots are in charge
@WeAreMovieMakers
Ай бұрын
What does BIS mean?
@andersberg962
3 ай бұрын
God damn, it's a long time since i felt there was so many fun/hype builds/specs to play in wow!
@OldManDoom
2 ай бұрын
Rogues and Hunters are in an awful state. I can’t believe Blizzard is just gonna release the new expac with some many hero talent specs, the keystone feature of the expac, in such a substandard state
@hhattonaom9729
19 күн бұрын
dam rogue really got shit end of the stick
@OrsoPolareYT
3 ай бұрын
Base an entire xpac around this talents, 70% of them are boring
@giorno9840
3 ай бұрын
It sucks because it feels like a classic case of the gaming industry just running out of time to deliver on something that was promised
@Roachehh
3 ай бұрын
There are loads of good changes. Stop dooming
@-.-Monster
3 ай бұрын
@@Roachehh guarantee he doesn't have the beta and is just parroting review channel sentiment.
@dotftw1
3 ай бұрын
Remember the previous 6 years of time we didnt get a single new talent.
@Nhouyengah
3 ай бұрын
Considering those are supposed to be evergreen, they will be improved anyway we're in it for the long run
@commandershepard7728
3 ай бұрын
I base my hero talent rankings on s3x appeal.
@Son-Telino
3 ай бұрын
i will play arms warrior as slayer
@Darebi
3 ай бұрын
Which lofi beat was it that was playing in the background at 32:00?
@JayCruz73
2 ай бұрын
Stormwind (lofi version) by bits & hits, here on KZitem. Enjoy!
@GS-um4kq
2 ай бұрын
lolol. totemic in b tier is wild. that shit is physical dmg and makes noooo sense for the talent build it wants us to go into. bottom of c tier at best
@abdullahyousef3481
3 ай бұрын
Bro put stormbringer in A tier 💀
@attinger117
3 ай бұрын
Right!? Is tempest even worth casting yet for ele?
@mehmetozturk771
2 ай бұрын
Rogue needs god
@updnews
2 ай бұрын
Dh nerfed?
@Giliver
3 ай бұрын
I liked mindbender. Lol
@leaflotus6726
2 ай бұрын
I like the hunter stuff mb😅
@chrismoore2720
3 ай бұрын
I really don't believe any hero talent will be the worst. Any good player can make it work regardless of the design or what not
@snivels
3 ай бұрын
I think this tier list is about the potential for fun and feel-good rather than if it is viable damage-number wise
@004947
2 ай бұрын
Sigh at being forced to use wake of ashes, idk just never rly liked it.
@evilmarius
3 ай бұрын
1h video from Vesperal? Count me in man. About hero talents; I believe, blizz being lazy. Most of them still boring.
@VesperalTV
3 ай бұрын
Let’s go dude!
@kw951
Ай бұрын
Yea we love spamming chain lightning and nothing else. Hahaha so cool two button spec. Very good and fun! Love having my spec turned into a brainless 2 buttons spam spec.
@TheShawnMower
3 ай бұрын
This video needs timestamps
@VesperalTV
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for reminding me! Should be implemented now
@arashnozari4042
3 ай бұрын
this guy hates Dh for reall, he never puts the game play of it in his videos ever
@frederikkjr9366
2 ай бұрын
Unpopular opinion: Aug is an amazing specc, and i'd much rather have it be meta, than ANY other specc in the game, simply because it shines by letting its teammates shine brighter. It's amazing, an regardless if i dps or tank, i love to have an aug in the party, (and tbh, i have yet to meet anyone who doesnt like to party with an aug). i think the hate is just the latest echochamber bitching of the community. Appreciate the video and insight immensely!
@bombacho3516
2 ай бұрын
Blizzard pest compani actuallyment And pest rework And bigg pest work clases in tww
@Redivna
3 ай бұрын
6:30 AYOOOO????????
@VesperalTV
3 ай бұрын
😂😂
@vonweaveygaming
6 күн бұрын
You know its videos like this that ruin the game and stop people from being included in dungeons and raids because everyone becomes a meta head and listens to these sorts of videos and then they start to look down on certain classes and specs. Its a game at the end of the day, what happened to just enjoying the damn thing.
@VesperalTV
5 күн бұрын
if you watched the video you'd know it was purely based off fun
@riddimzoo4069
3 ай бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/2Y14k5NmrWSZm44 "should be Death from above" Completely agree with you. How, by the love of god Death from above its not there, im waiting since Legion to play subtlety fun again but noooooooo. Its just terrible boring design.
@metalscream3934
Ай бұрын
stormbringer is boring, you barely notice it
@WoWDad13
3 ай бұрын
Rogue is in shambles....
@RSBrokeYa
2 ай бұрын
everyone knows tier lists are bullshit and just viewer bait. play what the fuck you want.
@Vucial
3 ай бұрын
No one ever wants to comment on frost mage lol. Makes me so sad.
@hvdiv17
3 ай бұрын
It's another caster meta😂
@Ghost_in_the_Rain
2 ай бұрын
I really dislike Hero Talents in general because it feels like a half-baked idea and a lazy way of implementing some of the most highly-requested specs into the game. Blizz really should've just taken the time to flesh these out -- make them all unique, visually stunning, and impactful, and roll them out as full-blown new specs.
@salihkizildag
3 ай бұрын
idk what this ranking is based on, but hellcaller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diabolist diabolist doesn't have an identity, it's bad for st, bad for aoe, ruination has target cap, the demons aren't that good, infernal bolt cast time is too long... meanwhile wither just shits on everything and works better with both cataclysm and inferno
@DuoSpear
3 ай бұрын
It's for fun and looks. He mentions it in the beginning of the vid..
@sl3498
3 ай бұрын
druids absolutely stink
@CoreMsK
3 ай бұрын
Lighting shaman build tier A hahahahaha
@colestevens6016
3 ай бұрын
Second person to say this with no context, u agree? Disagree?
@Prawnsly
3 ай бұрын
@@colestevens6016 it's just doomers who lurk in wowhead comments. they don't actually know what's going on, it's just the flavour-of-the-month thing to complain about
@CoreMsK
3 ай бұрын
@@colestevens6016 lighting build IS only for pure AoE, have 0 st or clave, fire build IS the most versátiles, have so much ST, good cleave to 2 3 targets, and decent AOE with a good maelstorm generstion
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