Check out the Artiscapade brushes and a fantastic 45% off here: bit.ly/380cvc2
@ThatGuyKal
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, needed some new brushes :)
@John2r1
2 жыл бұрын
You do realize that all of games workshops models are 3d painted. After which they do the clean up work which is literally the only difference. If you have good quality resin and are willing to put the time in to get a more detailed model out of it there almost identical in terms of quality. It's all about the quality of the base material and the detail level.of the program being used. It's honestly a good thing that the 3d painted models require some extra work to make them on par with Games Workshops 3d printed models. Doing the work yourself give a hit of appreciation in the the work done when you do choose to buy a model you can't 3d print for whatever reason. Usually to do with the physical restrictions of your set up. Most people don't buy the very top of the line 3d printers. Ps. Thanks for the link to the brushes needed to get some new ones.
@ThatGuyKal
2 жыл бұрын
@@John2r1 I thought they only 3D print the prototypes and then they print the masters, clean them up good and make a mold for mass production.
@John2r1
2 жыл бұрын
@@ThatGuyKal it's easier and cheaper to use 3d printing for mass production. Granted their using high end 3d printers and more detailed programming. They use to use molds . But technology changes. In either case the process is effectively the same. And the real differences are in the quality of the resin and that they do all the clean up work.
@lewissmith5759
2 жыл бұрын
this code isnt working for me
@MrDUCKMAN5555
2 жыл бұрын
While i understand that game workshop has alot of cost for things but sometimes they take the piss £65 for a one model is insane and the fact they can make deals with 3rd party companies to sell them cheaper clearly shows the cost of the model is not as high as they make it out to be
@DeepbloodFang
2 жыл бұрын
the price tag is not in the mini, it's in the "premium". I worked in toll, actually handled quite a few of these mini's, and I can tell you, they don't even cost a 1/5th of what GW is asking for them.
@akantor0811
2 жыл бұрын
sometimes take the piss? it costs around 5 quid if that for fully customizable squad of resin to print off a squad of terminators Games workshop want 30-40 for them and they are dated looking games workshop have been ripping people off for years and for the ones saying but the rules ect.... they wont stop making the rules while they still sell games im not saying they shouldnt make money but dont mark up 400% on plastic kits from over 10 years ago also remember GW sent us out finecast happily knowing it was a shit version of the plastic molds and still increased the cost of them
@IPrint3dMinis
2 жыл бұрын
@@akantor0811 Resin print all my WH stuff. GW is too pricey, especially if you are looking for out of print, or just artist creations. I am not into the WH game, but I am more of a collector, so for me $100+ for one model is just too much. Not when I can print a model for $5, or buy a Chinese version for $10-$20.
@wakkru
2 жыл бұрын
@@DeepbloodFang That's exactly why a single Commando unit costs the same as a 10 Model box
@euansmith3699
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂 Have you seen any of Squidmar Minis' videos about assembling a Forge World Tau Manta? What an absolute chore that was.
@hutchy1k94
2 жыл бұрын
Anybody tells me my 3d proxies are illegal when I'm at a friendly club game, I tell tell them if they buy it for me, I'll use it. You know what they are, they're the same size, have the correct options... if you're gonna bite my head of about how that siege claw arm on that leviathan isn't official, you can go right ahead and either buy me the real one, or give me the money to buy a real one. I simply don't have the money for genuine models anymore. An stl and some resin, totally, but £35 for a basic-bitch troop choice? Hell no.
@jizzchugger
9 сағат бұрын
For real so many other companies provide hobbyists with good quality models for a third of the price it’s so annoying that i can’t afford it just because GW is too greedy
@Luke-md7up
2 жыл бұрын
The fact is game workshop is incentivizing 3rd party models by their unnecessary high prices. As far as I’m concerned they can suck it. Don’t try to extort your customers and they’ll by your models instead of looking for alternatives.
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
There are legit no 3rd party Warhammer miniatures. If GW isn’t outsourcing their IP to anyone else. Those recast miniatures that are being sold are considered bootleg. I see this same sorter argument in the Gunpla community.
@demon1103
2 жыл бұрын
@@Trinioutsider34 Sure there are....it's called other companies and 3d printing proxies. Can go to Mantic and pick up some Riftforge Orcs to be used as Ironjaws. There are plenty of 3d printing alternative models that will fit just fine and are legally distinct.
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
@@demon1103 Who has GW outsourced their IP to so they can recast their miniatures for their game?
@demon1103
2 жыл бұрын
@@Trinioutsider34 Oh I wasn't talking about recasts. On that I will grant you. I was just saying there are 3rd party Warhammer models in the form of proxies.
@Luke-md7up
2 жыл бұрын
@@Trinioutsider34 there most certainly are third party models. It’s the reason why even in their own sponsored tournaments they allow these models as long as they’re close enough to the originals. And btw they don’t have to license there IP for it to be 3rd party. GM has incentivize this by arbitrarily charging outrageous prices. I by my main pieces from them. The rest I go to third parties and 3D print them.
@proposterous2808
2 жыл бұрын
For anyone who thinks GW's pricing is in any way fair, I'd recommend you research gunpla; the most expensive (MSRP-wise) model to date is the MGEX Unicorn gundam, priced at 230-250 USD. This model comes with a crap load of accessories, a display base, and LEDs. Now let's compare this to something of around the same size: a Warhound Titan. The MSRP of a Warhound Titan is, according to forge world, 621 USD. this is a model that doesn't even include the Titan's limbs or any weaponry, mind you. All you get for the price of mid-end graphics card is the torso, legs, and head of a figure barely the size of two coffee mugs. Mind you, this is a resin kit with no arms being sold for almost 3 times the price of a high quality, posable plastic kit which includes a display base, literally a whole armory, and LEDs. That's without mentioning the cost to the distributors to get the damn thing from japan. Now, tell me, do you still think GW's pricing is fair? When you can get a kit like the PG Strike Gundam, which stands at around 30cm, is completely posable, highly detailed and durable, and comes with a few accessories for the same price you could get Mortarion, who is either the size of a coffee cup or as small as a box of tiktaks depending on which version you get; I ask you - where is the "fair pricing"?
@z-mkgaming7464
2 жыл бұрын
The manta is £2000. That is a high level gaming pc or a good chunk of your child's education fees
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
As someone from the Gunpla community. I'll tell ya now, some people hate Bandai's pricing and defend bootleg kits. Been in that community for years before getting into Warhammer. That community ain't any better when it comes to people complaining about pricing on Bandai's kit. They always insist the bootleg companies put out better kits than Bandai to defend themselves in buying bootleg kits.
@ysbrann3059
2 жыл бұрын
@@Trinioutsider34 people will always find excuse to justify immoral act like stealing etx.
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
@@ysbrann3059 Yup and that's the lay of the land. The Gunpla community, Warhammer, and gaming community are full of people like that. And when they get caught stealing they ask why.
@ysbrann3059
2 жыл бұрын
i am prety sure Gundam model are not made for table top game.
@jw32767
2 жыл бұрын
Per their last financial report, GW’s profits are ~50% of their revenues. They could cut their prices in half and still pay all their employees.
@Geostationary0rbit
2 жыл бұрын
Understand that is looking at GW's overall financial report, preportionally the area seeing most growth is digital games, if the imbalence continues over time, and 3d printing continues to harm profits made by fabricateing minitures then you should expect significant changes to to GW's bussness model, like moveing its operations to china. Gone are the days where the guy running the show actully has a connection to the product, it is now a former hasbro exsec, so don't expect it to lean over backwards to keep its operations in Nottingham. And as of the past 5 or so years GW now considers its minitures bussness a collectables bussness instead, identifying that audience as the ones provideing the most profit, not wargamers.
@03dashk64
2 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY! Their profits vs their overhead show the prices really aren’t “necessary.” Just preferable. They can’t even use the “pay for the design” excuse when they are raising the prices significantly on old sculpts from the 90’s / early 2000’s (looking at you Skaven)
@BlazeHeroic
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think you understand how financials work. Just because they are making 50% profit on miniatures doesn't mean you cut the cost in half. It means you cut the profit portion in half. So for example, if something costs $10 to make, $2 to ship to stores, and they sell it for $20, their profit is $8. If you cut prices in half, they are now losing money. Now, if you cut retail down by $4 to $16, then you are still making money and reduce the cost to consumers. Its a very simplified answer, but its how basic financials and economics work.
@myrar8708
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly this. That whole justification in the first 2 minutes is a load of cr*p
@DCAMM720
2 жыл бұрын
A business wants to make more money vs. less money? Wtf
@stingray4567
2 жыл бұрын
Some other points to consider; - Recasts can be the only way to get old models that GW no longer wants to sell. I just wish GW would license 3rd parties to recast/sell OOP models in a legit way (I wish, but dont for a second think they ever will...) - 3D printing also allows you to print at different scales e.g. scale up for some inquisitor RPG 54mm scale minis or (my favourite) down to 15mm 40k. We really need to make 15mm 40k a thing.
@ForTehNguyen
2 жыл бұрын
forgeworld is it its own worst enemy with its cost, chronic out of stock inventory, long shipping times. You can find recasts that will arrive in 3 weeks for 1/3 the cost. Then sometimes the recast resin quality is better than FWs
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
Good points! Thanks for contributing something positive to the conversation!
@Captain_Tadpole
2 жыл бұрын
@@ForTehNguyen I was done with FW dreams after watching a Manta unboxing and seeing the incredibly bad shape it showed up in.
@proposterous2808
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies "something positive to the conversation" = something that doesn't conflict with your excuses for GW's pricing and your blatant ignorance of and disregard for their misconduct and failings as a company. Man, you really must be starved for "positivity"
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
@@proposterous2808 ‘misconduct’ 😂 Dude, get out of your mums basement and go and touch some grass.
@CRAM079
2 жыл бұрын
The issue with official models is that they are sold at practically a 4000% markup. Raw materials for those models is obsurdly cheap. GW as a business is very greedy and definitely price gouging.
@thomasgross8289
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah look at loot studio for example 70 models for $15.....GW 5 models for $45.
@syndromBE
2 жыл бұрын
@@thomasgross8289 that is such a stupid comparison lol. GW price includes packaging, graphic design for the boxes, studio paintjobs, marketing, factory costs,... Loot studio is a group of people who sculpt models and then just put them online, they have very little overhead costs.
@grumpyhobbit4689
2 жыл бұрын
@@syndromBE you are absolutely correct. still GW prices are bullshit.
@syndromBE
2 жыл бұрын
@@grumpyhobbit4689 i wasn't defending the prices. Just stating it's not a fair comparison. Plus for loot you have to invest in a printer and resin.
@CRAM079
2 жыл бұрын
@@syndromBE a one time $300 purchase and a $20-30 bottle of resin that lasts for tons of prints pays for itself in no time. I invested in a resin printer ans have gotten so much out of it.
@hurnn1543
2 жыл бұрын
Your recast and Forge World experience are the literal opposite of everyone I know who has done both.
@chromeghoul3022
2 жыл бұрын
Nah, the prices are not justified. Look at other companies that sell comparable miniatures.
@fateweaver9844
2 жыл бұрын
Only other minis I've seen even close are Raging Heroes and Creature Caster and they are on par with GW price wise but are also resin which is way more of a pain to work with
@mrorange8576
2 жыл бұрын
@@fateweaver9844 Wargames Atlantic guard proxies are not just on par but better than what GW offers for a fraction of the price. it cost me less to buy 120 of their death fields raumjagers than it does to buy 30 cadians...
@x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
2 жыл бұрын
GW is just Apple of miniatures. Apple is overpriced too for no good reason. You should just deal with it, poor thief.
@craigjones7343
2 жыл бұрын
Are their comparable companies with comparable number is staff, store locations, warehouses, exhibition hall, etc? It’s not the product quality that is the only factor in price. There is no company comparable to GW. Ignoring these factors is just stupid.
@bloodbarage
2 жыл бұрын
Idiots don’t use eBay. I got a deredeo dread with plasma and rocket pods for $80. You’re just bad with money if you think GW is too expensive.
@oec1002
2 жыл бұрын
GW has a history of price hiking their models and still not paying their employees anywhere near what they could or realistically should be for their work, esp their artists. I will continue to support content creators and 3D print minis when I can, especially forge world models
@chiselcheswick5673
2 жыл бұрын
If everyone only used 3d print, then GW eventually ceases to exist. The only reason you are happy to print 3D is you know other suckers will keep buying legit GW and keep them in business. Calling GW out for huge prices but willingly stealing IP makes you no better. If you dont like GW prices quit buying and quit GW.
@grendelprime166
2 жыл бұрын
Welcome to our world. Burger flippers don't make anything near the money they should that corporate does at McDonalds.
@ysbrann3059
2 жыл бұрын
@@chiselcheswick5673 3D printign is good for smal scale production. Its horrible for the scale that GW has to deal with
@aidan1R
2 жыл бұрын
@@chiselcheswick5673 stealing GWs ip? You mean the IP thats stolen from - Lotr, Dnd, star wars, starship troopers, Dune, amongst others? Recasting is morally right. Buying recast is morally right. Thats why I do it
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
@@aidan1R, There's a difference in inspiration and stealing. Warhammer has been inspired by those IP's,just like those IP's are also inspired by other stories. Nothing was stolen from those IP's. Don't know where people like get the idea that being inspired by something is stealing.
@cromcraft3494
2 жыл бұрын
1:45 Nah mate. 36% profit margins. Their costs aren't that big
@justarandomname420
2 жыл бұрын
Their costs aren't that much, but those executives have boat paymemts to make. Show a little sympathy for the rich and disconnected, would ya?
@meiswaffle101
2 жыл бұрын
The big issue I have with his reasoning is he lists stuff like packaging and storage. When a ton of models just sit in shelves in an LGS and you can’t open a single large shipment from GW without stuff being crushed or crinkled. GW doesn’t pay for that storage and they certainly don’t pay for quality or reasonable packaging. Their product pricing simply excludes certain customers and part of me feels like it might be intentional. “Look you’re part of the people who can afford to play our games. Isn’t that awesome?” And recent business practices don’t steer me away from that answer either.
@cromcraft3494
2 жыл бұрын
@@justarandomname420 nope never 😂
@cromcraft3494
2 жыл бұрын
@@meiswaffle101 England is a has a very classist heritage, originating from the Norman racism towards the Saxons. While the race aspect is forgotten, do to race mixing, the culture of lower class vs middle class is still a thing. I'm quite certain that it has informed gws behavior over the decades. And humans are of course susceptible to hubris, so its no surprise that it has infected even American players. Pretty cringe people taking pride in being scamed. 😂
@KappaKiller108
10 ай бұрын
The fact that GW sold us a new Contempt Dread kit, then REMOVED IT FROM THE GAME in less than 11 months is straight up crazy. They cant, at once, say you cant use thord party minis while also forcibly devaluing the minis you already bought from them by removing them from the game without massive fan resentment
@charlesslaton5924
4 ай бұрын
And THAT is the real issue here.
@WardenOfTerra
4 ай бұрын
They didn't remove it from the game at all. They removed it from competitive play for tournaments as it's less to balance. Find better friends that aren't meta cucks.
@proposterous2808
2 жыл бұрын
You tried really hard to rationalize GW's pricing, specially regarding FW, but in the end, it's objectively overpriced. any other plastic product in the same market (ie: model kits and minis) shows that. It cannot be justified. The only reason is their insane greed and want for massive profit margins. nothing else
@richardmoskalyov8503
9 ай бұрын
Yeah, that's what make him a sheep
@biscutcrumbs6529
2 жыл бұрын
I'll go back to buying Forgeworld when they redact the 30% overnight price increase for regions outside the UK. There is no justification for their pricing on that, and even so in the UK they still make a killing profit margin on FW products. Overheads do not justify this. And with the garbage rules they are pushing for HH 2.0 I'll just stick to my recaster.
@moreplease998
2 жыл бұрын
I'd buy forgeworld if they dropped their prices by over 50%.
@yourfriendlyneighborhoodla2091
2 жыл бұрын
@@moreplease998 same
@milancora4637
2 жыл бұрын
Where do you get your recasts it's for a friend
@TexanJD
2 жыл бұрын
Indeed. Not to mention the "internal conversion rate" GW overall uses. When 8th Ed came out if I'd been allowed to buy the FW indices in GBP(£) rather than USD($) it would have literally saved me OVER $10 PER PDF/ebook. At the time the £ and $ were not nearly far enough apart to justify that kind of difference. When I asked GW about it they literally explained to me "oh we have an internal conversion rate we use for calculating what people with other currencies should pay, we don't care about currency conversion rates". And the US isn't even the worst for this. Ask New Zealand and Australia.
@K2SMOH42
2 жыл бұрын
I'd buy ForgeWorld (again) if they actually had any semblance of quality control along with better pricing. Picked up some Krieg to round out my kill team and got models that broke when I clipped them from the sprue and models with gaping holes at thinner parts.
@magmat0585
2 жыл бұрын
i'm more a lore guy than a model collector (don't have the space or the artistic capability for the figurines), but from what i'm hearing, the recasters and 3D printers are just capitalism in action. GW is offering a good at a price that the market views as too much, and so alternatives are looked at. You can argue about IPs and ethics, but if GW wants to curb or stop other people from printing out miniatures, they need to adjust their business plan accordingly.
@calronkeltaran493
2 жыл бұрын
in the end they can only fault themselfs, realy. first if you exclude marines, almost no other army got any love from GW for a very long time. many armies have models as old as the players themselfs. and dispite the age of those models, they are prized like they are the best stuff ever made. gotta love it when your most amazing elf lordes look like clunky dwarfs with oversized helmets and weapons while they cost the same as this badass SM captain, that get's an upgrade every year. it is just logical, that many players will eventually look elsewhere for nice looking models and tbh: once you have invested into a 3d printer, you never go back. you get high quality files for cheap or even free everywhere. GW doesn't even try to compete. they don't want to, in fact. their agressive IP marketing is like a last lash out from a diing tyranit monster after rolling a 6 for explosion instead of rolling a save.
@magmat0585
2 жыл бұрын
@@calronkeltaran493 i'm no lawyer, but i have a feeling they try to sue over some of these IP claims in the USA, they're gonna get BTFO'd by Fair Use if someone pushes back. The fact they'd be stupid enough to stop free publicity is amazing, it reminds me of when KZitem lets plays became a thing, you had game companies that realized "hey, its free marketing", and others who tried to stop it (sometimes because they had a bad game). Guess whose games tended to do better?
@calronkeltaran493
2 жыл бұрын
@@magmat0585 exactly. so many players came to warhammer because of Astrates or other fanmade projects and GW shut them down. this stuff never works for the long run but well... if GW shuts down, we will get a 40k 9th age and propably better rules support and updates. so the game itself is save
@nathang4570
Жыл бұрын
Under rated comment. Every other take is idealism from what ever bias the commenter holds. At the end of the day people will pay what they are willing to pay and if cheaper alternatives become available GW will have to either adapt or fail. Such is the way of the world, every attempt at changing this simple fact of supply and demand has ended in catastrophic failure. GW is no more immune to the laws of economics than the late Soviet Uninion.
@DoomFlavored
6 ай бұрын
The phrase “even in debt I still serve” comes to mind whenever someone tells me to “just buy official”
@captainweekend5276
2 жыл бұрын
I think the human rights argument against recasts is flawed and something you present with about zero evidence to back up for such a bold statement. The truth is many recasters are actually very small operations, it's less one massive factory with hundreds of underpaid employees than it is probably about 5-10 guys operating out of a warehouse and making reasonably good money. Whilst GW have the overheads from the development and marketing of their miniatures, it's well known that their costs are much higher than they should be and they're not operating close to the line whatsoever. Recasts are basically the miniature hobby's equivalent of video game piracy/illegal keyselling, and to me the solution is the same, just provide a better service and a reasonable price and you'll take them out the market. The core issue is that a lot of the time the legit FW product isn't significantly better than the recasts (considering I likely know which recaster you bought your miniature from, they're renowned for having an iffy quality at best, as are most easy to find recasters, better ones tend to be cheaper but restricted to closed groups) and whilst the service of GW sending replacement bits if anything is casted wrong, even that can be questionable at best. I've heard cases of people being sent 3-4 of the same bits before finally getting one that is casted correctly. I think the core issue though is GW miniatures only ever get more expensive (a few outliers like blood knights being a significant exception). For instance with video games, older video games are sold for significantly cheaper than new releases, even on platforms that remain consistent like PC. In fact in almost every hobby, something that is older and still in production is almost always sold as significantly cheaper than a new release, however GW keeps the cost of all of their model kits artificially high, especially with forge world. To me it is completely understandable as to why someone wouldn't want to spend the same amount of money on a miniature made over a decade ago compared to one released this year. The majority of kits that are recasted are ones that have been around for years and simply remain overcosted, if GW addressed this by lowering the cost of kits that had already paid for their cost of production and beyond to a reasonable level, the market for recasts would shrink dramatically overnight.
@meiswaffle101
2 жыл бұрын
I never thought about the video game example, very well thought out comment
@RedsGoneGrey
2 жыл бұрын
Very well thought out and reasonable comment. Have nevery thought of, or heard the comparison between older video games, and decreases to pricing on older kits. I agree with this sentiment very much. You want to be careful with radical ideas like these though, however well expressed, you'll be tarred, feathered and run out of the hobby in no time.
@lv100Alice
2 жыл бұрын
just 3d print it instead of doing recasting then you zero suit samosa
@captainweekend5276
2 жыл бұрын
@@RedsGoneGrey Honestly I'm not really worried, I feel like recasting is actually a lot more common than people think it is, and anyone who would have a serious problem with me buying recasts isn't someone I'd want to associate with anyway.
@mikemclaughlin3306
2 жыл бұрын
Lol... all those human rights violations in the recasting "factories"...... while using a China bought 3d printer..... if that doesn't say GW simp, I don't know what does
@hope121107
2 жыл бұрын
Are you insane thanking that the prices of Forge World is reasonable? Do you really think that the rest of the world believes that games workshops customer service is good? How many times have we all bought models from Forge World that has had warped parts?
@JediMunchies
2 жыл бұрын
Having built a few Telemons myself, the placement of those shoulder pauldrons will forever haunt my dreams.
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
Good thing they’re not glued on yet 😉
@MrRaashby
2 жыл бұрын
Thank satan because that was almost awkward lol
@theemperorofmankind7706
4 ай бұрын
The moment you said the prices are justified, you lost me entirely, dude.
@Slothamn
2 ай бұрын
Genuine games workshops propaganda. I live in the US you need to pay at least 116 pounds. That’s just for a few minis too. Of course I would buy off of third parties. I play imperial guard. I’m not paying hundreds just for like 40 minis. So I’m going to buy off of third parties that have actual cool minis. Third parties bring back minis that GW killed. I wanted ice warriors of valhalla. Third parties sell updated versions.
@oceanpete36
2 жыл бұрын
if they where 'perceived' high prices..no one would be getting 3d printers or re-casts..just saying.. and no, they are not justified high prices, its outright greed.
@Gumlass1
Жыл бұрын
You've clearly not had the average Australian Forge World Experience. They take MONTHS to arrive in the first place, are very often faulty, and take MONTHS to have parts replaced. As for the legal arguments presented, we have a "significantly transformative" clause in our copyright laws. My interpretation is the 3d print is fine, but the recast is not. And if I'm wrong, then applying the same test means GW are likely infringing on the original IPs that "inspired" many of their designs in the first place. ... what happened to the "I'll be back" rule Necrons had in the 90s ?
@JonNuclear
10 ай бұрын
I think something very important to remember that wasn't mentioned here is that Games Workshop has a habit of making limited release models or just discontinuing popular products which are now impossible to acquire directly from them. This leaves you with either buying resale, which can be much more expensive than even the legitimate original model and is also limited in quantity while also not helping GW and their employees at all, or you buy recast/3D print. Recasts are a great way to preserve history and make older models available long after GW stops supporting them without having to buy your own 3D printer and still not coming out with the same level of detail.
@douglochery8641
2 жыл бұрын
I'm suprised that arguments about GW price gouging still rage. Anyone who thinks GW pricing is fair really do need to look at the history and learn the lessons. A reminder: When GW switched from lead to "white metal" we were told this would enable lower pricing as production costs on pewter were lower. Prices went up. When GW switched from pewter to mostly plastics, we were told it would bring the cost of the hobby down as plastic was cheaper to manufacture than metal. Single mini prises rose slightly. Boxed product stayed the same for a year.. ..then rose. When GW looked to move to finecast we were told comparable prices to metal but higher quality. Prices rose, quality fell. Now when I buy a single 32mm chatacter for my wife's D&D character it's in plastic and costs over £15 from GW. Similarly cool stuff from reaper, in metal, costs £6.50. WTF? I'm glad GW exist. I love their designs and the passion of the community around them but seriously, if you think GW is fair in it's pricing, Apple would like a word with you as you are likely their kind of mark. Support GW and your local hobby shops by all means. Just know that there's a reason most hobby stores sell gw product cheaper than gw themselves.
@handlinitificould
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think GW marketing hasn't been doing a very stellar job given their treatment of the IP, the fan animations stance is a really hard thing to see, as this hobby had an undeniable, massive influx of members through things like TTS, Astartes, Death of Hope, SODAZ, etc. They deserve to lose money for it. Not just through recasting, but through the 3d artists too.
@discipleofdagon8195
Жыл бұрын
yet they whore out the IP to mobile game devs like nothing
@michaeljames1334
2 жыл бұрын
interesting how all the reports about GW having horrible working conditions were not mentioned.
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
You mean the rants by disgruntled ex employees? 👍🏼
@melonboi927
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies oh yeah 100% just dismiss them because they are ex-employees
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
@@melonboi927 you missed out the ‘disgruntled’ part.
@nerdhop1584
2 жыл бұрын
It might not be the best job but it's better than China
@jameshutton3960
2 жыл бұрын
Disagree on the replacement policies I had a sicarian with a very bad mold slip on the back. I was able to provide examples of other sicarians I own and basically got told FW is for experienced hobbiests. It may be but it should also not be poor quality.
@PhynixDS
2 жыл бұрын
Talking about IP theft, Maybe GW shouldn't have copy pasted most of their lore from the Dune novel series, or ripped off other IP's to craft their universe, just saying. God Emperor, Navigators, Warp Travel, Las weapons, just a few examples lifted from Dune an older IP than GW's WH40k universe 🤣
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
People keep using this as an example of IP theft - it’s not. You can be inspired by works, provided your own is different. You could ask two painters to paint the same picture, but both would be drastically different.
@Dietsteve
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies Actually, a whole lot of 40K is stripped right from other works. Power armor for example, the idea of a man-sized suit of indestructible armor with an arsenal of a tank came from Starship Troopers; as mentioned above, basically the entirety of 40Ks space travel is ripped right from Dune. The original Tyranid models were based off the Alien movies. Yes, they've changed things over the years, but way back at the roots, it was straight IP theft
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dietsteve If that's the case then Dune is just Lawrence of Arabia in space. I bet you didn't know Dune was inspired by that story.
@dandyx12
2 жыл бұрын
Food for thought indeed, still not convinced that recasts or 3d have more than a minimal impact on GW's cashflow, as their last money wobble was over a decade ago and that was purely down to their own greed and lack of innovation. 3d is still very much in the niche at the moment but if it becomes plug and play i-printer that'll be time for GW to worry.
@fateweaver9844
2 жыл бұрын
Finally someone with sense.
@Deus888
2 жыл бұрын
Currently 3D printind is a hobby on its own. You need to do a proper research and testing before printing quality miniatures.
@NightfireGamingYT
2 жыл бұрын
Id guess you’re right. As much as it gets talked about I don’t personally know any Warhammer players that 3D print. And I only know one person who bought a Russian recast but only 1 model.
@dandyx12
2 жыл бұрын
@@NightfireGamingYT I've got 3 or 4 folks with printers in my local nerd herd of about a dozen, mostly its just bits rather than whole armies although one chap does have a Custodes 3d army but that's only 20 odd models, its usually extra guns or armour bits for 40k and appropriate terrain for other games
@JamesEarlCash
2 жыл бұрын
Resin printers are more and more user friendly. There are already first models that print normally, not upside down and don't need that many supports.
@MMc-mp5sj
2 жыл бұрын
I like how you talk about poor working conditions in China as you 3D print using a Chinese printer. Good one.
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
You tried buying a British made 3D printer lately?
@nerdhop1584
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies lol It's impossible not to buy from China but if you have a choice you probably shouldn't
@BenjisHobbies
2 жыл бұрын
@@nerdhop1584 that’s exactly what I’m saying 👍🏼
@nerdhop1584
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies Ya 🤜
@nerdhop1584
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenjisHobbies Honestly that's a reason why I like to buy from GW. There's not a lot of large companies the manufacturer most of their products outside of china
@longle88
2 жыл бұрын
lol , he forgot to mention that other UK mini companies also have the same overhead without the scale of economy a big company GW has, yet their prices are are consumer friendly. "significant overhead" and "wages" are crap, especially since we found out that GW are underpaying their employees. Do your research before believing KZitem shills.
@anew742
2 жыл бұрын
For me personally, I only use recasts for out of production models & Forge World stuff - in other words, products where my money won't go to my local game store anyway! The recast Forge World models I have are higher quality than the originals at 1/3 of the price, meaning I have money left over to support local stores instead :)
@claybrowning2700
2 жыл бұрын
GW's pricing is absolutely ludicrous. They make so much profit off their minis, they could cut all prices in half and still make profit
@johannisson77
2 жыл бұрын
This video did not feel honest. Games workshop has a operating profit margin of 43%... Compare that to Alphabet Inc owner of google, they have a great business success and is extremely wealthy as a company and "only" have 33.7% profit margin. So GW is asking us for way to much money, they are gate keeping young players to be able to afford the game. Don't get me wrong, I love to play GW games, but they are way to greedy for there own good. So if I can skip paying fore forgworld, or to buy a whole other box of devestators to get one more plasma gun I will print or recast.
@dxd8603
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly this, and you can see Benji’s Hobbies only likes comments supporting GW. So kind of suspicious.
@johannisson77
2 жыл бұрын
@@dxd8603 Exactly, and to put the whole matter in to even larger perspective so a big Oil company like Chevron has 12% profit margin and Walmart has 2% So GW with its 43% is like top in the world with making pure profit. And that is the markup we players have to pay.
@richardduska1558
2 жыл бұрын
I dunno about it. I personaly printed a Contemptor last week and while I haven't finished painting it it can easily stand next to the GW one and nobody would bet an eye. It always comes town to the files themselves. The one that you printed semed a bit badly scaled. A little bit of editing in Blender can fix all of those issues.
@grignr3831
2 жыл бұрын
3D modelling is getting more popular and far easier. GW will die if they don't adapt. They wont win when there is a cheaper alternative that gives the same or better customer experience. At the moment they are charging a massive amount for what is essentially bits of plastic you assemble yourself. For the price of a few minis I can buy a 3D printer and building materials. the only thing I cant do with them is play in official tournaments. If you are printing them. you can choose the quality/detail you want. Now for the other major plus for 3D printing. I can use it for a lot more that just minis.
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
GW ain’t going no where. People have been saying this for years now.
@luketfer
2 жыл бұрын
@@Trinioutsider34 However for years we've also not seen a major uptake in 3D printing, especially 3D printing with quality that can match GW stuff. With the 4K and 8K 3D printers your getting JUST as good quality sculpts are you are from GW because, I'll let you in on a little secret, they 3D print the prototypes using those exact same 3D printers people are using at home THEN they send them off to have moulds made (most of the modern models are nolonger hand sculpted either, they all sculpted in 3D programs and then 3D printed). All you're doing is cutting out the middle man of requiring moulds for injection plastic mass production if you're doing it at home because, well, you don't need to have that level of production from home.
@Trinioutsider34
2 жыл бұрын
@@luketfer I don't think you get what I am talking about. I could care less about 3D printing. What I am talking about is people recasting GW's work and re-selling it. Once again this argument I see in the Gunpla community. People think IP theft is a way of sticking it to companies like GW
@Haanzer
2 жыл бұрын
Ehhhhh.. This video feels a little disingenuous to me. I find it really interesting that you claim there is 'no grey area' and that recasting is 'morally wrong' and cite that it's taking money out of the pockets of the company designing and creating the game - but then are seemingly completely happy with 3D Printing as a viable alternative. I get that there's a difference between 'transformative' art (e.g. knock-off designs) and straight up replication (with recasts/direct copy 3D prints), but the end result is that you're getting a mini to paint that's based on GW's property - the lore, concept art and probably miniature designs themselves - and Games Workshop aren't getting any money out of it. Knock-offs aren't paying GW a license or anything. The criticisms of the recast model as well seemed a little forced. I've built and painted 100's of ForgeWorld miniatures in my time, and ForgeWorld aren't themselves immune to leaving big mould slips in very inconvenient areas or putting casting gates in less-than-ideal positions. Fair play on the cheaper, more brittle and cheaper feeling resin itself, but honestly that recast model you put together looked in better shape than a lot of kits I've received from FW proper. Finally, I thought it was a little weird that for your comparison, you didn't do three of the exact same model. Feels like you'd get a better comparison getting a recast of the genuine model you bought and 3D printing a direct copy rather than a 'homage' model. After all, if you're buying and showing a recast for the video, why not print a 3D print replica model as well? You touch on that, but rather than explore the inconvenient truths in this area you just kind of gloss past it. Just seems a bit less like narrative here is a little biased, and that 3D printing Warhammer 'alternatives' and recasting miniatures are a little more in a grey area than you suggest.
@ZTRAIIN626
2 жыл бұрын
If people had any ounce of an idea of how injection moulding works they would realise just how crazy expensive GW are compared to how much it costs to mould their miniatures, not to mention how cheap the bare material is they use.
@JMcMillen
2 жыл бұрын
It's not the casting that's expensive, it's those steel molds that they use that cost so much.
@ZTRAIIN626
2 жыл бұрын
@@JMcMillen In the context of it all the moulds cost fuck all.
@blah-po9et
2 жыл бұрын
My highschool had a 50 ton injection molding machine donated to it, an equivalent brand new machine costs about 50,000 USD, it took a highschool student 2 weeks to design from scratch a token to be used for good behavior and whatnot in the school store, from there it took a week to cnc the mold with no prior experience, we spent about a week trying to get the injection machine working till we called the place we got the machine from and they sent someone out and helped us get it running, all in all it took a highschool with NO prior experience a little over a month while only working an hour a day to get a product mass producing. The cost of the plastic is about $10 a pound which can produce about 1200 tokens and the cost of the mold in material is a few hundred dollars.
@ZTRAIIN626
2 жыл бұрын
@@blah-po9et it is very simple. Yes GW’s moulds would be a little more detailed etc. but the amount of product these machines can pump out now is ridiculous, and on skeleton crews. GW is a big company so they would have multiple spare machines and moulds so if their is a failure or breakdown they just switch over. Their moulding machines would be going day and night easily. The cost of their raw material would be extremely low also. In the hardhat moulding industry a hardhat is sold on average for like $10-$15 where I’m from. Material cost for that hardhat is 40 cents.
@nrgspike
2 жыл бұрын
Try Elegoo's ABS-like resin for minis instead of the Standard. While it still has a brittle failure point if stressed enough, it has a degree of flex is far more forgiving, plus supports come off easier too.
@ZestayTaco
2 жыл бұрын
get some syra tech tenacious resin. mix it 80% standard resin 20% tenacious for minis that can take a fall or a throw
@taco0991
2 жыл бұрын
Do you have to adjust you're exposure times/settings when you mix em?
@patriarch7237
2 жыл бұрын
@@taco0991 I have kept the same settings from Elegoo standard grey to ABS-like grey, and it works fine.
@ZestayTaco
2 жыл бұрын
@@taco0991 not really
@NightfireGamingYT
2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting seeing the comparisons. My guess is that right now 3D printers aren’t really hurting the bottom line at GW. But we’ll eventually have printer that can basically “scan” your model and just recreate it with minimal work or knowledge. And that’s when it will hurt, when it stops being an entirely different involved hobby.
@Sasquatch-ff1pj
2 жыл бұрын
It already exists. Take multiple pictures of the object from all angles Upload to program. Hit run. Boom accurate 3d model.
@NightfireGamingYT
2 жыл бұрын
@@Sasquatch-ff1pj I knew that was a thing that companies had but didn't realize that personal use printers could do it. Crazy!
@NightfireGamingYT
2 жыл бұрын
@Enohadoland I'm sure 3D printers like that will just keep getting cheaper and cheaper over time.
@SirRivelion
2 жыл бұрын
@@NightfireGamingYT It's not just about a 3d printer. It's like your regular "paper" printer - your 3d printer needs a file (STL for example, there are some other formats). You scan the object/person with a 3d scanner, the scanner creates a 3D object file and then your 3d printer can print the object from the file. Or a 3D modeller makes a 3d model for you. Just like your camera creates a photo, then you send the photo to your computer and print the picture with your printer. So you need a 3d scanner and a 3d printer (which is a good thing - you don't want to walk around with your printer to scan things :P ). I've seen a decent scanner for something like 800$, but I don't know if it's good enough for small miniatures. You could buy a very good printer for that price, though and there's more then enough models to print online..
@Sasquatch-ff1pj
2 жыл бұрын
@Enohadoland No. There are multiple programs doing this. One is over the internet and charges like $5 per use. It's called photometophy or something similar. It will do this for objects big or small.
@shadowclothes
2 жыл бұрын
I find I have more problems with forgeworld model quality/ mold slip than with recasts, I have been given.
@tonyennis1787
10 ай бұрын
8:42 it's about the artist and the files. The printers are insanely good and are only improving.
@blah-po9et
2 жыл бұрын
Having ordered from GW and likely the same Chinese recaster as in the video, I can fully say I had a better customer support experience with the recaster than GW, I was missing a part out of one of the recast kits and I emailed the support, and overnight he emailed me back and had the part expedited and was there with a week vs GW who took 3 days to message me back and took over a month to get a Necron nightbringers torso replaced after I found a massive bubble square in the middle of its chest. And I do agree with the points about official GW, vs 3d printing vs recast but I don't have the time to 3d print an entire army, I don't support GW after the whole content creator fiasco, and the sheer cost of models from GW, like I don't have the money to buy an entire Warhammer army for $800 but from the recaster it was about $300.
@just_me1232
2 жыл бұрын
Do you remember the name of the recaster?? For educational purposes ofc
@TheFGS
2 жыл бұрын
Yes..I also need to be educated, if you could be so kind ;)
@Deimos0
2 жыл бұрын
more education needed here as well
@parkerlindsay4606
2 жыл бұрын
I would also very much appreciate the name purely for the purposes of avoiding said website of course.
@Maesgae
2 жыл бұрын
Everyone asking for the name: you won't get it unless someone doesn't care about having recaster availability. When names start getting dropped on threads and in comments is when they start taking down those recast sites, no one in their right mind would publicly post the name of a recast site.
@JestaultSteinkeKachuik
2 жыл бұрын
Technically Russian recasts are perfectly legal because they are a hostile company to Russia there IP's are not recognized and are perfectly legal to copy them in Russia (it's not ip theft because there is no gw IP in Russia). Also recast orders have taken from 3 days (faster than gw in my area) to a month so it is hit and miss for sure. Also recast vendors give the same replacement policy as gw. Some old FW stuff is literally worse than recast versions. You also didn't even touch on the primary reason to stay from recast... No one does because you won't discover the huge issue unless you have built a lot of recast. (Tip: it's personal health related).
@pinoarias8601
2 жыл бұрын
Does working with recast resin fuck with your health?? Damn, how??
@JestaultSteinkeKachuik
2 жыл бұрын
@@pinoarias8601 The resin is not regulated and my body now reacts to any plastic or resin sanding shaving and cutting quite adversely. I can shave mold lines and cut around 5 infantry models before it triggers maybe 10 if I'm wearing a mask and I'm outside. It happened after I built several larger recast models and now triggers with official gw resin or plastic. It's like someone allergic to pollen in pollen season.
@meepmop6
2 жыл бұрын
What do you mean the 3d print is "not quite there..." that it's "more likely down to the files not being as detailed and refined as they could be" my brother in christ it's your opinion. Don't give us a "likely", just tell us you don't like the 3D print as much because the sculpt isn't as good. Also it's a bit much to assume the recasts come from a factory with bad working conditions. Recasters wouldn't have massive factories. You should check your biases.
@LiliaArmoury
2 жыл бұрын
as an Australian i wish we got warhammer at the same price as you guys. gw's massive aus tax (which isn't reflective of import taxes, wages or shipping) sees a lot of folks here buying recasts purely for that reason though i also hear many a claim of quality control issues with fw models that those same people claim to not have had with recasts
@joahnaut
2 жыл бұрын
Aussie here as well; I get recasts all the time, and the quality is always perfect. I've had A LOT more issues with FW products, to the point where I have just stopped buying them.
@piotrjeske4599
Жыл бұрын
We have been recasting since the 90s. There is entire industris build around it. There are guys who have 20 printers running non stop printing kasarkin, Votan exo armour, the new tau suit cmd etc.
@stefan020290
2 жыл бұрын
Some of your arguments are pretty weak. Forgeworld is known for having rather poor quality control and it often comes with a hassle. Also the resin models often have a ton of problems and for the premium price they sell for, it just doesn't add up. I bought several recast models, some crap, some better than forgeworld. The recasts are also someones only way to get certain parts like the discontinued legion upgrade sets. Also, if I am not mistaken, some of the plastic kits are already made in china with over 80 % profit margins. Don't ever try to defend Games Workshops price strategy. I love the universe and the models, but I will never buy directly from them.
@markhickson9087
2 жыл бұрын
GW don't have to justify their prices! It IS their IP. You do not HAVE to play. However, if you are cool with IP theft then you don't have to justify it either. You can't justify it on price though as the owners of the IP can charge whatever they want. Me, I don't mind recasts or 3d printing but at least I don't feel I have to pretend it is ok because GW are the bad guys.
@meiswaffle101
2 жыл бұрын
@@markhickson9087 but a company that sells a good or service usually does have to justify their pricing. You wouldn’t buy a product that someone was selling for $500 just because they say it’s worth that much. If they want people to pay those prices they have to at least make it feel worth it. They had a huge opportunity to grow the market with 2020 bringing in so many people into the hobby but rather than even attempting to maintain the surge in player base they just milked it as a cash cow and then jacked the prices up when the gravy train left the station. By all means they are under no obligation to try and make a customer out of anyone but businesses that treat their customers well tend to do better in the long run. edited for a missed word in the last sentence.
@markhickson9087
2 жыл бұрын
@@meiswaffle101 Nope. They do not have to sell to anyone at what you think is a reasonable price. They could charge a £1000 per model. Take paintings or cars or apple products or luxury chocolates. If they can make a business out of it good luck to them. Other than buying their products and quality we have no say apart from voting with our money. We can buy or not buy. Copies of any kind are theft. Many people are ok with that. We just have to be honest with ourselves.
@meiswaffle101
2 жыл бұрын
@@markhickson9087 you do realize that they do have an obligation to someone to sell products, the people responsible for the company legally have to be acting in the company’s best interests or they can be sued by share holders look at Netflix for example. So when an established core audience starts to buckle under gross to borderline predatory business practices they can and will get in trouble for that, both financially and legally. Secondly I don’t prescribe to the notion that you can own an idea or a concept, you can own things sure but this is better illustrated by an example of video games and piracy. Not every video game pirated was a potential sale, some people will only play the game if it is obtainable for free. It’s similar to buying games second hand at profit to the reseller. Game companies hate it but every attempt to eliminate either has been met with harsh criticism. The only thing buying a re-cast or printing a mini does is stop me from participating in 1st party GW events, which are literally hundreds of miles from where I live and I have little interest in participating in to begin with. But it’s their tournament with their prizes they can decide what they allow freely, just like I can freely obtain models for my personal use however I see fit. edited for grammar.
@markhickson9087
2 жыл бұрын
@@meiswaffle101 Won't work in the uk. Yes the CEO may eventually get replaced if the company starts to lose dramatic share value because of the business model but other than buying or not the 40K player has no rights to control GW. Pirating games is your validation🤣🤣🤣🤣. Yes that is theft. Try it in court. "I only play games I get for free".😂😂😂. So play free games then. Music is a better model. Most people who pirate music buy more music than those that don't. Less cases these days but the argument never worked in court. Theft is theft. People buying from recasters and 3d printing ARE braking the law. If you are fine with that so am I. Just say it for what it is. All the arguments that every download was a sale lost IS rubbish BUT sales do fall when a pirated copy is available!
@greggonzalez661
2 жыл бұрын
TBH, Forgeworld resin and packaging is crap. Every sword, spear and antenna is bent. IF you are lucky, no missing pieces, bubbles or miscasts. You pay more, and they have no quality assurance included in that price. Instead replacing stuff since those people make less?
@thomasmeglasson228
Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry, when you compare the models that come out of Forgeworld and compare them with things like products from Bandai, the prices just are not any kind of justified.
@Ferretino
2 жыл бұрын
I do agree that it's IP theft, but i don't really care. GW own ex employees and hired casters tell how much of a margin they get from raw material alone. Successfully casting island of blood ratogres for myself i can say that cost of one model was around a 50 cent. All other costs of "DESIGNING"(all ranges from 2000 and 1990s what still sell as completely new) and extra shipping kinda make GW prices even more laughable. Look at over companies. Compare their prices and GW. Perry brothers sell 39 prussian handgunners for 22 pounds. Or 12 armored horsed knights for SAME PRICE. GW sells 10 handgunners for 18 pounds. Or 5 Freeguild Pistoliers for 21 pounds. Quality of the sculpt is not that different, but somehow one company beliefs that their product deserves to be sold for super premium price. All that without even talking about heroes with price coming literally out of nowhere.
@Ferretino
2 жыл бұрын
P.S 50 cent of raw material without cost of the form itself. Form with all test of material before come to the ~5$ and was completely fine after 10 casts, only reason i stopped because nobody needs that much of same mono-pose models.
@DeusMachina71
2 жыл бұрын
I 3d print almost exclusively these days, I don't buy GW products anymore.. I don't play in official games or stores.. I don't play any of their current systems and I don't give GW any money, any promotion and almost as little attention. And I lived happily ever after, GW and it's shareholders can eat dog crap for all I care. The best outcome is they one day go under and are forced to sell the IP. GW is a toxic trash fire and we don't need them anymore, I've got 35 years of games and their rules, WFB 6, 7, 8th edition, Mordheim and so much more so much better than AoS on every level. I don't need a new old world reboot at all either since I've never stopped with the original one and now with the likes of Warhammer Armies Project and better stl miniatures than GW why should anyone care? I'm not going to buy that either, they might get me on the rule book if the seriously improved it but why should anyone care about their miniatures anymore. 3d printing is already here forget the price point in another 2 years in comparison
@MemequisitorDominus
2 жыл бұрын
GW shill video lol
@justarandomname420
2 жыл бұрын
It's all legit as long as you don't care about GW hosted games. Play as you like!
@crimsonstride5457
24 күн бұрын
gw's overhead IS NOT JUSTIFIABLE at all to make units so expensive
@reddragon4482
2 жыл бұрын
I plan on getting a 3D printer to practice painting but I have bought a lot of necron legit stuff lately. I dont see anything wrong with 3D printing as long as you aren't selling them.
@KrullMaestaren
2 жыл бұрын
Not selling copies but their own creations are fair game.
@reddragon4482
2 жыл бұрын
@@KrullMaestaren Sure you can get away with some stuff if you change it around enough. I personally wouldn't want to fuck with GW though. They are ruthelss and would maybe just sue you for fun lmao.
@KrullMaestaren
2 жыл бұрын
@Red Dragon That is a bit incorrect, as a former designer, I can tell that in many countries (US among others) its fair game if you cane prove a 25% difference to the original version in a court of law. They are more strict with protected names so you better use "Troll Reseller" instead. Don't care what GW think one way or another when they don't have a case. Just care about game, community and fun :) I am absolutely never going to judge someone elses proxy or "report" this to my GW overlords xD If you want to play with your Moomin Marines then that is okay by me
@SirRivelion
2 жыл бұрын
@@KrullMaestaren There are some absolutely beautiful 3d models out there. I have 3500+ points of Eldar, 3500+ of Drukhari and 2k of CSM etc., but I'd rather use proxies for some horrible GW "originals" like Asurmen and other pheonix lords and most of the aspect warriors. In Drukhari basically every shit-cast model except the old Incubi - I was lucky and they were fine (especially since some of them are gone now, forever, lol - mandrakes, grotesques, court of the archon...). For me it was always the rule of cool - if my opponent wanted to use Kromlech orks or sth., then I was more than happy with it, because his army looked unique and fun. Same with 3d printing, if you want a sexy Magos, farseer, tau waifu proxy or whatever, then go ahead. Or, well, can't afford that new tank? That box of cookies looks close enough for now. :P Nowadays a lot of people act like you are a thief, if you bought/printed a proxy (I can see the argument for the 1:1 copy/recast, but I don't care personally). Example: Artel W amazing alternative "Eldar" (and other stuff) they sell. People usually only comment about how amazing they look and not "OMG, THIEVES, CALL THE POLICE!" But seems like god forbid if you bought an STL file and 3d printed something resembling a "sci-fied elf", or an orc with a gun.
@KrullMaestaren
2 жыл бұрын
@@SirRivelion I see... the old Drukhari Cookie Box tank strategy... "join the dark side, have a cookie" xD True, 2nd ed WH40K came with its own cardboard, ork dreadnought :D Oh, and the cardboard terrain, they should never have discontinued it.
@drewlovelyhell4892
6 күн бұрын
It's worth mentioning that lower prices doesn't nessecarily equal lower profits. If GW lowered their prices by 20% they might sell 20% more units. I would spend more money on GW miniatures if they were better value. I flat out refuse to pay $40(US) for a single space marine character, when a box of ten is just $55. If I want a Chaplain or a Praetor, I kit-bash one from a regular marine.
@fitz394
Ай бұрын
"Moral and ethical cost" lol
@nathanielmaghanoy6441
2 жыл бұрын
Here are some rebuttals to pro Games Workshop apologetics. "If we don't buy their models the company will die." If it dies, it dies. JK. No, it won't die, it will sell. The portfolio of intellectual properties Games Workshop owns is worth hundreds of millions if not a few billions. If you owned a failing business that was still worth hundreds of millions would you throw up your hands and walk away or make hundreds of millions selling it? Some company that sees the full potential in the IP will snatch it up and shake things up. Also GW treats the customer like trash. They shut down fan animations that are free advertising for them and do not imperil their bottom line, they gouge you on prices, they won't update their models for literal decades(but they'll charge you ever rising prices for them) and they can't be bothered to invest in producing balanced rules for their own game then have the gall to charge you for their fuck ups. Why are you supporting this? "Their production costs are high, they have to charge a lot." This is most laughable. I work an industry which uses molds that endure temperatures over 2000 degrees hotter than even tough plastics, are ungodly expensive, and must be replaced more frequently. The case erector(s) and shrink wrappers they use to package are probably $150,000 - $300,000 including tooling. Their injection mold machines are most likely between $500,000 and $3,000,000 a piece and with proper maintenance will give 15 to 20 years of life. And yet this product is sold much cheaper than GW models. GW probably have a handful of artists in their employ, but most likely contract artists for pieces at much lower prices (and infrequently as they re-use art for decades). Also their artists and employees aren't being paid particularly well either. Amortize the cost of equipment and artists over years and take into account their scale of production and there is no way to justify paying $60 dollars for 3 Shining Spears that weigh 6 ounces of plastic, one of the cheapest materials on earth. No friends, you're paying the "Apple Tax" for a "premium product" which can be equaled and bested by the cheapest 3D printer and a $10/month Patreon subscription. 3D printing will upend the mini game market as the internet and MP3's did the music industry.
@JayAndNightASMR
2 жыл бұрын
The sad thing is most offical warhammer shops don't allow forge world models making them a waste of money if you don't have any other gaming shops nearby
@brendanarmstrong7802
2 жыл бұрын
I do think it's worth mentioning that if you'd used a more highly pigmented resin, such as Siraya Tech Fast Navy Grey, or Phrozen Aqua Gray 4k/8k, the 3d printed dread probably would have come out looking better on camera than the official one, at least while unpainted. Once paint is on there, the detail on the official model would shine.
@Empressofnight
2 жыл бұрын
A solution for the exact copy theft would be for game's workshop to sell 3D printer files for a slightly higher price as the could be printed several times.
@calronkeltaran493
2 жыл бұрын
what do you call a "slightly higher prize"? if 5 units of marines cost 60€ and with GW logic the file enables unlimited marines, they may sell the files for 80€. noone would go for it. even if they admid, that they save production cost and make it 40€, only the real GW fans and GW tournament players would take it. in comparison Infinite heroes offer a whole army to print for 80€ or just 16€ if it is the monthly featured one. even if I only use like 2 troops from this pack, it was worth it already. and their model quality compares to GW extremly well. they even come with a fully assembled option as well for extra convinience.
@sidraket
9 ай бұрын
They have a popular setting and profit from books and video games and other licensing. They could sell miniatures at cost purely to support the the ecosystem they made and still profit, and could probably profit more from it in the long run by spreading interest and snagging people who have a casual interaction with 40k in deeper by engaging them with an additional way to experience the setting. Of course its a public company so its probably not going to make good long term decisions.
@Itchyknee88
2 жыл бұрын
GW apologists are so predictable in their excuses for GW’s crazy pricing model/scale. 🤡
@Dreadguard
8 күн бұрын
I want to support a company that cares about it's Customers AND their employees. Abaddon runs for 60 USD. That isnt justified. A single librarian Primaris 40usd. They're to pricey
@AgentDingo
6 күн бұрын
if you lived outside of the UK you'd disagree with their pricing
@ubermoose5694
2 жыл бұрын
I've never been a fan of recasting for commercial use. Making bits or recasting for personal use, to me, isn't any different from kitbashing or scratch building bits or minis. As far as 3D printing, which i just got into, its a bit more a grey zone for me. There's no way I could afford Forge World prices for a Death Korps army. $75 for 10 minis that are only about 60 points just isn't something I could ever justify. I'm sure tons of effort and expense went into the design, sculpting, and casting of those miniatures, but for about the same cost I got a computer, 3D printer, resin, isopropyl alcohol, and the STL files to print my own army. I mean for the price of one earth shaker battery I bought a laptop, the outsider detachment costs the same as the 3D printer. I would love to be able to afford a Forge World army. I'm sure the sculpts are more detailed and nicer than the 3D printed minis I have, but since I can print an entire 10 man squad for about $1.50 worth of resin i have a really hard time justifying the price. Personally, whay I don't understand is, with GW plastics being the insanely high detail and quality, why does Forge World still exist?
@Th3D4nny
2 жыл бұрын
"for the price of one earth shaker battery I bought a laptop", lmao, really puts things into perspective. That's crazy.
@seanbyles6996
2 жыл бұрын
To the point of replacements for damage or missing parts, down here in NZ our service for that sort of thing can be patchy at the best of times, usually we're just out of luck when it comes to that sort of thing. To the point of overheads, I can kinda understand from a UK point of view, but here we're paying between 30% - 50% more (after you account for currency exchange and shipping). All that to say a genuine FW model is pretty hard to find in NZ these days.
@mikepence1933
2 жыл бұрын
same in aus hey, the people here telling us to suck it up and that it's affordable tend to be private school types
@RocktCityTim
2 ай бұрын
Hopefully, you've moved your resin printing to ABS-like resin to resolve the brittleness issue that you mentioned. Regarding designs and comparison models, MyMiniFactory has some creators that are blowing GW away regarding creativity, design, and quality (with the right resin and printer). I own a few GW armies and really appreciate the work and quality involved, but I've moved to other design sources (Loot Studios, Atlantic Digital, Artificers Minis, Death by Tiles, Dungeon Blocks, and a few others). Printing with ABS filament on my FDM printers for terrain and buildings while using Elegoo ABS-like V3 with my Photon Mono X 6Ks for minis and detailed elements is a breeze with Lychee Pro (FDM and Resin). Yes, the hardware buy-in for the printers was a bit over US$1K, but the things I can do with them (besides miniatures) has long since offset that investment.
@iggythegreat5061
2 жыл бұрын
Moral and ethical cost ? Buddy, recasters are usually 1-10 people , not a big ass factory. You can find the Russian ones as well in case you are just worried about the "human cost". To me it is more human to pay a recaster that has a normal wage for his country, than support GW that underpay their staff. Another thing 3D printed models are of the same quality, there are so many sculpts that you have to pay for that are amazing and even level above GW as they can produce finer detail as there are no molds and mold lines.
@georgedavidson957
2 жыл бұрын
gw are destroying their own market with these costs. thats the reason I quit, I felt I was being constantly ripped off.
@SeventhPlacePace
2 ай бұрын
The price will never be justified
@ExtraCarnex
2 жыл бұрын
I have bought from recasters and FW from outside of the UK before and cannot say I nor anyone else I know who have gone through the same process I did have shared your experience. Minatures had gotten here from china in less than a week at times and from FW then standard is months if not longer. There has been little to no issues with the models from recasters here and when there are they ask bascially not questions and just send out part or whole minis when there is an issue vs one the people I know who bought a titan and was sent it not fully cured and was told to get a chemical that is illegal to buy in our country. And lastly the price, outside of the UK the difference is massive I personally bought a thunderhawk for less than a quater of the price that I would have paid from FW. People in the UK dont seem to appreciate how priviledged an experience they have with GW and their divisions when the rest of the world has to suffer through it.
@charlesslaton5924
4 ай бұрын
I've got a Mars 3 and printing with SirayaTech ABS-Fast. I also found high detail scans and high detail sculpts. And they are higher quality and look better than the official minis these days.
@nickz1259
10 ай бұрын
Look, I don't wish to disrespect you in any way. You are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs, as is anyone else here. That said, your opinions are definitely biased and that really shows in the video. Sure Recasting is illegal, of course. But GW aren't saints, far far from it, and as a person not from the uk, idgaf about whose wage I am paying, and manipulating people by invoking such emotional topics in a video that's meant to "inform" is far from objective truth. You made zero effort of being objective, and that is what moved me to leave this comment here. You are completely misinforming people on the subject brining far too an opinionated take to be calling it "informing", you are simply pushing an agenda, and I won't stand for it. Have a great rest of your day.
@ak0097
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah not selling a kidney to buy some forge world models when I can literally spend that much on a entire wave of mcfarlane marines. They are articulated, have amazing sculpted detail and I can customize them the way I want
@Daniel-fc2xi
2 жыл бұрын
Nearly 11 minutes of premium GW boot licking. Good stuff.
@POWERPRIME01
2 жыл бұрын
GW should just close FW completely and transfer all models to plastic. This is it the early 2000s injected molding has gone very far. Some of the stuff bandi can do is on the scale of most FW Titans. The idea of FW was to test and make models that wouldn’t sell well in plastic but has the hobby grows so should ideas of the past. So for that reason I don’t buy any thing FW and only buy plastic GW kits. So if I would use a recast or 3D printed model it’s only because I’m against old outdated business practices.
@drnobody1908
9 ай бұрын
I'm going to tell you this right now never trust someone doing a model review if their sponsored by the company they're supposedly reviewing other products too. That's like trusting a bank when it comes to loans all because of the clerk recommends it.
@BenjisHobbies
9 ай бұрын
GW don’t give me anything, nice try. A swing and a miss there bud!
@cobra_commander2255
2 жыл бұрын
GW have overheads... and a ludicrous 30-40% profit margin for the shareholders.
@llynellyn
11 ай бұрын
It's kind of funny that by cranking up the prices to silly levels (I.E plastic terminators costing more than double what metal ones cost lol) GW have ended up hurting their profits by pushing people towards buying copies instead.
@rowdybeaman1436
11 ай бұрын
I honestly would love to see GW sell the models they create as digital files for 3d printers, at a reduced cost from their normal mini's. They likely design their models using a digital software so it wouldnt cost them any extra because there is no extra production. Sure they'd run into issues with people selling their models after printing them but there are already laws in place for that kind of theft anyway. As a hobbiest 3d printer I would spend more money on the digital files from GW vs a Proxie model if they were the offical models.
@Nat1videos
2 жыл бұрын
I really don’t understand why GW don’t just jump in to the 3D printing market... killing to be made. Not that they are doing badly for themselves 😅
@kamaeq
8 ай бұрын
Amusingly enough, I was delving about in the "discontinued games" area of GW a bit over a decade ago and many of these no longer supported games had large playing fan bases. Why? Because GW was no longer sweeping through with increasing frequency to screw up game balance and list composition for no good or apparent reason other than to make less attractive minis OP for a bit to get people to buy them. After these minis sell well enough, they get "balanced" to the point of nerfing in an inconsistent manner.
@AKKK1182
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine thinking companies are your friend and you must "be loyal" when another producer offers similar product for fraction of the cost.
@AngusBeef0
Жыл бұрын
GW needs to drop their single model prices across the board. Their bundles are about what you should get on average for the price.
@chikhai
2 жыл бұрын
One Primaris Lieutenant has been deposited to your account.
@justarandomname420
2 жыл бұрын
How many tactical rocks is it standing on?
@Comicsluvr
10 ай бұрын
I'm anti-GW for a number of reasons: 1) They like to change the core rules for no reason which means I have to buy a hardcover rulebook every 5 years or so. 2) After changing the rules (which often invalidate armies from previous iterations of the game), GW has to release new army books. They often take YEARS to do this and whoever winds up at the end of the list is forced to try and compete against newer, often more powerful armies. 3) Just like the rules and army books, GW will frequently change armies which often renders models obsolete. So, they want me to buy the rules, buy the army book (IF it's even out yet), buy the models, build and paint them (which TBH is the only thing that kept me in the hobby), only to have to retire them within a few years at most? Screw that. GW has decided to milk the few players and collectors who have money for expensive hobbies and tossed the casual hobbyists to the side.
@markcampbell127
2 жыл бұрын
There is no logical defense of GW pricing. Their profit margins tell the tale. They are price gouging plain and simple, because they know people will buy it. They don't make a single product, that isn't greatly more expensive than an alternate product of similar quality. Models, books, paints, brushes, everything they produce.
@dirtywetdogboatsandsailing6805
2 жыл бұрын
£68 Justified......for a small plastic toy.......errr.....reality check required.
@OGXenos
10 ай бұрын
I think a big factor for price hate a lot of British people forget about is that GW adds a massive markup in price in other regions that are not even remotely equivalent to the exchange rate. As an example, Demon Primarchs in the UK costs 100 pounds. A lot, but it's a Demon Primarch. These are some of the highest quality models they sell. You go the United States, and they cost $170. The actual exchange rate from pounds to USD would be $127. They're $43 more expensive for no valid reason. It's even more egregious because other regions are LESS prioritized for refills than the UK is. Chaos Knight War Dogs have been out of stock for NEARLY A FULL YEAR in the United States, both online and LGS level, whereas the UK gets a refill of them every few months. We're getting charged EVEN MORE for a hobby that is already expensive and a service that is objectively inferior to the homeland. The USA doesn't even have it the worst either. Australians pay $279 for Demon Primarchs, when the exchange rate should be only at $191. They are being charged nearly ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS more than the actual MSRP for UK prices. That's completely inexcusable, especially when Australians already get massively price gouged by their own cost of living. In fact, pretty much EVERY non-UK region pays a premium for the crime of not being British. It's these disgustingly blatant attempts at exploiting larger markets than the UK itself that makes people so angry about GW's pricing, and the reason a lot of us are more than happy to buy stuff dirt cheap off Ebay or buy recasts. Because even buying a legitimate brand new 40k model off Ebay from a guy in the UK costs less than buying from GW themselves. Even then, a lot of European Ebay sellers are aware of our constant supply shortages and gladly markup kits for +200%. You'd be lucky to find War Dogs on Ebay under $140. War Dogs are a $90 model that should only be $70.
@BenjisHobbies
10 ай бұрын
But it’s not purely exchange rate though - there’s way more that goes in to it than just that and to just look at the exchange rate does not paint the full picture. Duties, taxes, transport, storage… all of this adds to the end cost and is of course passed on to the consumer.
@megatronVS
Жыл бұрын
It certainly causes a *big think* when you see the most expensive Tamiya models being overshadowed price-wise by the cheapest GW tanks.
@jmc7034
2 жыл бұрын
I’ll buy the genuine GW products but not at the prices they charge. I’ll even buy second hand mini’s
@RatRatGirl
Жыл бұрын
considering i’m a hobbyist first and GW fan second i’d argue 3d printing is 100% ethical. it’s more equivalent to video game piracy than actual recasters. selling stls of GW models is ehhhhh id argue more questionable but someone in their own free time replicating a GW sculpt and putting it up for free isn’t bad at all. for example i would never in my life but a warhound titan. you could not hold a gun to my head and make me buy one from forge world. but printing one? hell yeah i’ll do that. GW isn’t losing any money because i was never gonna buy one to begin with. not to mention the myriad of bits out there that one might want for a kitbash but don’t want to spend $80 on a kit they’re only gonna use like 4 pieces of small plastic from. also have you seen the GW price for those small upgrade sprues???? literally highway robbery. same with their characters why is a monopose single loadout dude who in no way cost more to make than an entire 10 man of individual customizable pieces the same price as a 10 man kit? not to mention GW plastic molds make their cost back incredibly quick. way i see 3D printing is if you wouldn’t say someone who hand sculpted their say guardsman minis out of green stuff and kitbashing parts from other games is “stealing” from GW you can’t say the same about 3d printing
@mignonthon
2 жыл бұрын
1:40 NO , i stopped the video here.
@ScottAT
10 ай бұрын
The amount you guys pay for your game pieces is robbery. A guy was showing his 30 centimeter tall robot looking model he bought from games workshop and it was more expensive than buying a real authentic Colt .45 caliber pistol.
@BenjisHobbies
10 ай бұрын
Tell me you’re American without telling me you’re American 🇺🇸 🦅
@Remixersoloman
2 жыл бұрын
I'll just keep printing. Quality difference isn't even visible when things are properly sanded down, and painted.
@woodenpotato1
24 күн бұрын
"justified because of the high overhead GW has" homie, you have clearly never looked at their yearly public trading reports. $0.44 cents of every dollar is profit to the shareholders. lol. there is no justification.
@BenjisHobbies
24 күн бұрын
@@woodenpotato1 they’re a PLC. They owe it to their shareholders whether you like it or not.
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