Full marks to BC for working it all out, logically explaining it and brilliant close up photography/lighting.
@SeeTheWholeTruth
3 жыл бұрын
Priceless education.
@MarkGarth
3 жыл бұрын
Such a clever and well thought out design. It's an electromechanical system that has lasted for years.
@posthofleiten
3 жыл бұрын
Probably 40 years ...
@rdouthwaite
3 жыл бұрын
If it ain't broke...
@Noplacetobe
3 жыл бұрын
Hmmm, was expecting a deep analysis of the circuit board, but got an in-depth vieuw of a very nice build relay. Thx for your hard work.
@funkyfresh1013
3 жыл бұрын
vieuwu
@madbstard1
3 жыл бұрын
That must have taken so much trial and error to design. Everything is so precise in movement and action.
@ferrumignis
3 жыл бұрын
What amazes me even more is fact it can be cheaply manufactured with sufficient precision to (presumably) provide a useful production yield. Just image the headaches a worn bit of production machinery could cause.
@straightpipediesel
3 жыл бұрын
@@akak5128 Probably what happened was they designed it decades ago, it failed in some way and caused a few houses to burn down, then they fixed it in the next version, and a new failure mode came up, etc. until most of the failure modes got figured out.
@daviddavidson2357
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah this is insanely complex. Biggest question I have is why not just go solid state. You could go with a microcontroller and relays/transistors to do the same job for a lot less money, or am I missing something? Maybe this design is just more rugged? I suppose if we ever get EMPed or hit by a super powerful solar flare people can still hotwire their central heating if they have a generator.
@JasonRobards2
3 жыл бұрын
@@ferrumignis Was wondering the same.
@LenKusov
3 жыл бұрын
@@daviddavidson2357 I've messed around with enough HVAC stuff to know that yeah, solid state controllers kinda suck and somehow cost MORE to buy. The mechanical ones, when they fail, just get more and more intermittent and can usually be fixed by smacking them with something to un-stick a stuck contact, giving you enough warning to order a new one and just live with intermittent heat for a few days, instead of just failing outright at 1am on a January Saturday. Speaking of, the tolerances on this stuff aren't particularly tight, especially by stamping and injection-molding standards. The timing on this actually leaves quite a bit more wiggle room than solid-state ones do, so even worn-out molds and bad quality stamping on the sheet metal will usually still pass QC and work fine. Microcontroller stuff is REALLY prone to dying of things like back-emf from the relays or the ignition transformer, cooked electrolytic caps, shorted FETs, etc, the MOST solid state I'd go if I had a choice is one of the older designs built around a couple 555 timers - those are almost as reliable as these electromechanical ones.
@nuttytechy
3 жыл бұрын
I love watching electromechanical devices in operation. Beautifully designed and see you can the different stages coming in and being taken out unlike the cheaply made, overly expensive circuit which just has a chip which isn't worth watching.
@whitemonkey7932
3 жыл бұрын
Should also have said a big "thank you" for the never boring content that makes life interesting in these strange times
@kc8485
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks BigClive for solving a mystery of over 40 years! I can recall getting soaked in diesel trying to troubleshoot a De Detrich burner that would "lock-out" and fail to ignite. It had a Honeywell controller very much like shown (installed in 1972)...I figured that the contacted were a bit pitted, so I polished with sandpaper. Finally figured that the flame sensor was all sooted over the LDR and needed a clean. When it fired up with a mighty trump and roar I was a very very happy 12 year old kid! Only problem was my "school shoes" stank of diesel for months after...
@Alexis_du_60
3 жыл бұрын
I've been having the same experience with a older Cuenod NC-4 burner that would not fire at all, even with a new controller fitted it would still lock out.. As I was helping the tech dismantle the darned thing. I remember we tested the flame sensor (using a lighter to simulate a light presence, the sensor was temporarily connected to a DMM) and it was good.. Then we tested the coil on the pump, yup, it was completely open, so we swapped it, did it solve the problem? Nope! Still no flame... The tech threw in the towel and swapped the whole pump assembly. Nearly had the oil tank empty itself in the basement, I remember the moment I rushed for the shut-off valve.. Good times lol We smelled like oil for about a week after this whole ordeal, definitely not something I'd like to experience again! I asked the tech if these control boxes would go bad often, and unsurprisingly (at the time it was surprising for me), he told me that they rarely go bad, and if they do, it's usually the contacts inside that need to be cleaned. For years I was always wondering how these worked, but I really didn't think they would be so simple yet complicated at the same time.
@garethblake3941
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, l found this video very interesting as l work for many years at an NHS hospital with the maintenance department. The hospital had duel fuel ( natural gas or oil ) steam boilers plus a medical incinerator which had those units fitted. The biggest problem we found with them as you highlighted due to the rather hostile environment they operated in they failed on a regular basis mechanically more often than not. The flame sensor on our units had ultraviolet detectors which look like a tubular lamp with an indexing base so it could only be fitted with it viewing the flame. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
@jonka1
3 жыл бұрын
I assume nobody considered re-locating the units to a better environment.
@garethblake3941
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, l did relocate unit away from the vibration of burner itself which helped but as they had installed a medical incinerator in the boiler house didn't help as it produced very high working temperatures and a very aggressive dusty atmosphere due to the high use of lime to neutralise the acidic gases which were produced in the incinerator's burning process.
@firstmkb
3 жыл бұрын
I'd bet all of the failures were safe, i.e. shut down instead of causing a fire or explosion. Annoying, but safe.
@JohnMGibby
3 жыл бұрын
So it's basically an electro-mechanical Rube Goldberg computer/machine? Very cool device and very cool that you could figure out how it all worked and the logic behind it all.
@Richardincancale
3 жыл бұрын
It’s an amazingly economical design. If I did it with a microcontroller I’d use at least four relays, but here there’s just one fancy relay and a bimetallic strip and heater - Magic!
@paulphillips675
3 жыл бұрын
I was a tele exchange engineer for 25 years, initially strowger (electro-mech). We used thermal relays, slow to operate and slow to release relays, (these had “slugs” fitted at one end or other of the coil to slow down the build up/collapse of the magnetic field to slow them), big stacks of contacts with make, break, change-over, make b4 break, ratchet relays used to count X operations of the relay before operating a contact. Literally thousands of them but loved it!
@falcopops
3 жыл бұрын
There's a certain visceral pleasure seeing something quite complex being realised by so few moving parts, so much more satisfying than an innocuous black box.
@guyteigh3375
3 жыл бұрын
A genuine "wow" - this is a truly amazing piece of design. It's the sort of "extreme cleverness" that makes you wonder though if the inventor ended up rocking himself gently in an asylum somewhere - I think this level of complexity is more likely from someone that is at least partly savant. Remarkable design - and great explanation too, thank you.
@Wirralguy
3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if this started as a simple (ish!) controller and then was added to over time to meet the demands. Can you add a second oil jet? Yep. Oh, now can you add an alarm trigger? No problem! Actually, we need to sanity check the flame sensor, can you add that now too ....turning it into the fiendishly complex structure we see here.
@mcgyver272000
3 жыл бұрын
@@Wirralguy It was probably the result of many years (decades?) of problems and regulations. Look at current electrical safety regulations or aviation maintenance requirements. All of those are built upon the injuries and deaths of the past.
@firstmkb
3 жыл бұрын
Stop asking for my real name! Absolutely - incrementally refined over probably 100 years now by reviewing catastrophic failure modes, until it will almost always fail in a safe mode. This wasn't a single inventor or even a single team - it was a community trying to keep people safe.
@thomasthiel9709
3 жыл бұрын
I just had a historic version of a oil burner controller stripped down, which was exactly the same design as yours, just without SMD tech involved. Really interesting to see how it works in detail and that essentially nothing has changed in this technology for the last thirty/fourty years. Thank you very much for your work! Always a pleasure to watch and learn.
@michaelhyde9971
3 жыл бұрын
Amazing bit of technology and not a microprocessor in sight. Tryed and tested over years. Thanks for making it so clear.
@ooslum
3 жыл бұрын
You're not buying central heating one little bit at a time and afraid to tell us, are you Clive???
@stepheneyles2198
3 жыл бұрын
That's why his house is so cold - he's taken all the bits out to explain them to us and maybe having trouble getting them all working again!! Hence the opening comment about needing this part! :-D
@mrbyamile6973
3 жыл бұрын
Thats what I thought he was doing with the mini motorcycle with all the ignition parts and wire looms, keep waiting for each additional part until he had some Frankenstein scooter cobbled together from cheap Chinese parts.
@whitesapphire5865
3 жыл бұрын
Come on, we need to get real here. Clive, and central heating? Never going to happen! 😸🤦🦄
@ronniepirtlejr2606
3 жыл бұрын
I think I heard Big Clive say a year or two ago on a video, he prefers a cooler house. He says it is because he spends most of his time working outside so, he just got comfortable with it. If the temperature drops he'll just put on a few extra clothes.
@ooslum
3 жыл бұрын
@@ronniepirtlejr2606 Nah, just a big softie Glaswegian who's finding the IOM breeze a bit brisk, it's a plan t'raise the temp-er-at-ure to 10 or 11° with wee, filtree bits of heating, that's centigrade not farenheight....... Sorry Clive.
@rush2489
3 жыл бұрын
In my home (built 1905) in the states we have an Aquastat control with a sub burner control. One of the first things I did was modernize these control boxes with digital circuitry, but I still kept the older controls as they were equally interesting to the one shown in this video. I had a lot of fun reading electrical schematics and explanations clearly written for a 1930s plumber to understand.....
@martins3444
3 жыл бұрын
Got one of these units on my Worcester heat slave boiler. I used to get intermittent lockouts and I always suspected it was the control unit at fault because I couldn't understand how it worked and anyway it was electro-mechanical and therefore surely must be unreliable. When I finally found the source of the problem it was the spark sometimes failing to light the oil spray due to the electrodes being slightly out of alignment. The controller seems to be the most reliable part of the system even after 20 years of service. Hats off to whoever designed it.
@I967
3 жыл бұрын
Beautifully elegant. This is exaclty why I enjoy mechanical devices. It's all so cleverly put together and you can usually understand it even without a manual or schematic, just by watching it operate and seeing the movement of its parts. Could you possibly put together a video about relays? A general introduction to relays, followed by uses and what can be done with a relay. Something a bit like your _A simple guide to electronic components_ or your videos about soldering, those are very good. I have some old and new and big and small relays in my parts bin and I have no idea what to usem them for. Thank you for the interesting content!
@MadScientist267
3 жыл бұрын
Electromechanical is so much more fascinating than electronic... It always reveals the thought process someone had during the development. Great video as always.
@Miata822
3 жыл бұрын
Mechanical logic. I love it!
@Peter_S_
3 жыл бұрын
There's a reliability to mechanical items which cannot be beat.
@TheRailroad99
3 жыл бұрын
Not so sure about that. I think a well designed electronic circuit is more reliable. If those contacts are slightly bent, that is probably already enough to, for example, start the burner 2 before burner 1.
@millomweb
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheRailroad99 You'll not find a lift that does not have mechanical safety features. At one time - and probably still, in places, electrical safety features aren't relied upon.
@skf957
3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant explanation of something that is so complicated in the old-fashioned mechanical, analog sense of the word. It’s a safety critical component and so needs to be robust and fool proof. I have a pretty big (35KwH) oil boiler and it has a 2-stage pump. And now, thanks to you, I know how it kicks in - and uses even more oil! It does make a rather satisfying “whumpf” when it lights though. Thanks for posting.
@gregorythomas333
3 жыл бұрын
Oil burners have been around for quite a long time...and I guess the engineers finally figured out that you just can't beat a mechanical control unit :)
@peterg.8245
3 жыл бұрын
...sales figured out they could get bigger bonuses by selling the same system for more... I&C Engineers would never use electromechanical in a modern system.
@ratchet1freak
3 жыл бұрын
it's also a safety component you don't just redesign them without a very good reason
@BobWidlefish
3 жыл бұрын
No, the engineers figured out you can beat a mechanical control unit - and it still works even after quite a beating. ;)
@whitemonkey7932
3 жыл бұрын
@@peterg.8245 Wrong - we still do.... LGK boiler control units. Yes I can program it it easily for PLC, but the hardware has to be intrinsically safe and it's not worth the grief. The LGK does all of the welded contact monitoring and will even do gas valve proving. Just plug it in and give it a start signal from the PLC, and monitor it's little outputs for system status.
@steveblack728
3 жыл бұрын
I think it’s more a case of if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it, cheap and fairly reliable units these were
@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500
3 жыл бұрын
I love these electromechanical devices. This thing is clever. Awesome presentation Clive!
@ron4378
3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation of mechanical logic, some operations still can not be replaced by solid-state logic. Another very well explained device by the Big guy! Thanks ever so much Clive.
@divest6527
3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating, thanks for including the detail that everyone else would've left out!
@brandtharen
3 жыл бұрын
I've really been enjoying this series of recent videos on UK oil heating control. While I'm not in the industry i do have a home with an oil boiler and hydronic radiators in the US, and i can see how different the wiring control and zoning is, even from the same component manufacturers.
@Yrouel86
3 жыл бұрын
It's like relay logic and cam logic had a baby and it's really cool. I think this is one of your best videos, I really liked the explanation and the practical demo
@wgm-en2gx
3 жыл бұрын
That's amazing Clive. This a perfect example of why I like your content.
@TurboTimsWorld
3 жыл бұрын
Love this type of electro mechanical stuff, ...Mind you the coldest week so far in the UK (and Isle of Man) and BC has the heating apart just to see how it works !! LOL
@InTheMirrorr
3 жыл бұрын
This is an amazing piece of art. It reminds me with old-school overload switches. Thank you for doing this.
@rpavlik1
3 жыл бұрын
Holy moly. This is one that presumably has a really complicated flowchart or ladder logic diagram... Those close-up shots were really nice
@danpartlett6464
3 жыл бұрын
Most of my work is on Gas boilers but this has been a great eye opener on what a great piece of engineering this is!
@roberthorwat6747
3 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the "fun" I had trying to figure out the way the Poka Yoke ポカヨケsystem worked at the Honda car plant I worked at, which was used to stop the production line if a critical bolt was not fastened, missed, cross threaded or not tightened to its specific torque. Devilishly clever when you consider conveyors, pneumatic systems, transducers and tools and all sorts of stuff were all linked together.
@scorch762airsoft5
3 жыл бұрын
I'll be linking the guys at work to this video. Been selling these boxes for years, but we never get to see them do their thing.
@keithking1985
3 жыл бұрын
Can't tell how many of these burners i helped my dad fit for people down through the years. never knew how class it was on the inside.. : ) that was a really cool video Clive!! i loved how you used the neon's to show how it worked..
@frinkemon
3 жыл бұрын
My gosh that’s some crazy engineering! Thank goodness for microcontrollers!
@WolfmanDude
3 жыл бұрын
I wish they would still build more things like that. I hate when some micro-controlled device fails and you cant find out why "the computer is unhappy". Washing machines are a prime example for that.
@dolomitebert427
3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video big Clive but me and my girlfriend really miss the “one moment please” phrase. I aways turn the volume up on my phone when we think your just about to say it. Is the “one moment please” coming back?
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
I'm sure he won't disappoint, I'm waiting for the day he says "one senior moment please"
@MrStantheman103
3 жыл бұрын
I remember when the control circuit failed on my parents oil boiler after 20 years of service. We spent a while trying to figure it out. Good to see how it finally works after 20 odd years of waiting 😀. I'm sure controller number 2 will fail soon.
@millomweb
3 жыл бұрын
"control circuit failed on my parents oil boiler after 20 years of service" Our boiler was so old, it didn't have a controller ! Either the gas valve was open or it wasn't :)
@stepheneyles2198
3 жыл бұрын
That's the most amazing one-time programmed PLC I've ever seen!! Thanks for the explanation Clive!
@MattWetherill
3 жыл бұрын
I service oil fired boilers for a living. These control boxes are fascinating things and remarkably reliable for what looks like 1950's technology. The main things that cause them to fail are repeated restarts caused by failing ignition transformers. There is a fully electronic alternative which has a DKO designation (includes the provision for an electrical remote reset and diagnostics via flash codes- although the diagnostics are fairly useless to be honest!) - happy to send you one to compare if you'd like?
@diaradalmatian1318
3 жыл бұрын
I was like.. nah this is going to be boring.. watched it and now I am stunned.. This electrical engineering is a masterpiece
@matthewellisor5835
3 жыл бұрын
That's as much fun as a relay-logic elevator controller. We don't have many oil furnaces in my area so this was new to me. I do like electromechanical devices!
@dash8brj
3 жыл бұрын
That thing is incredibly precise - its basically an analog PID controller!
@blahorgaslisk7763
3 жыл бұрын
I opened one of these up a few years ago. It had been replaced as the timing was off and it shut down to early in the ignition phase. I figured it was probably a leaking capacitor so I thought it just might be an easy fix to replace it and have a spare controller at hand. Well, as we both now know that wasn't the case... I spent some time figuring out just how it worked. This controller would actually do three ignition attempts before shutting down, so it was just slightly more complex, but basically it functions just the same, just an added bimetal spring and heater that is timed to allow the ignition circuit to cycle through three attempts before shutting down. In the end I just sprayed it down with contact cleaner and assembled it again. It did work when I tested it but I didn't feel certain it wouldn't gunk up again so it's on the shelf for now.
@rimooreg
3 жыл бұрын
Big Clive, this is one of my favs from you. How many hours to investigate and shoot? Really really quite well done.
@kevinsellsit5584
3 жыл бұрын
That is a fascinating use of bi-metal strips and over-center cams. It is also interesting that it was cheaper to include the copper, silver contacts, and spring for the #2 oil injector even when they are not needed. If you removed the #2 oil injector parts from the unit it wouldn't have the proper timing. Basically, a single oil injector unit would require most of the other components to be calibrated differently.
@tweed532
3 жыл бұрын
Looks just the bit of kit for a video, as per Saturday night requests, 'outdoor 100mm whoofler is on internal start up sequencing'. . 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🤔🤫😂
@TheRailroad99
3 жыл бұрын
Oh yes. Time for the AutoWhoofle, the whoofle controller. It should be automated further. A !whoofle in the chat starts a whoofle (only works once every 10Minutes), the intensity (time the whoofler puts out foam before ingniting) is controlled by the number of !whoofle comments in that time.
@jwilko7998
3 жыл бұрын
It's got the movement of a swiss watch, great intro to the workings of this. These bring back memories working with the gas control versions Satronic 810.1 on some Babcock Wanson boilers, DD ovens. they were motor driven sequencer types all good gear.
@Torgo63
3 жыл бұрын
Classic Electro-Mechanical Computer programming. Love it.
@Peter_S_
3 жыл бұрын
Microcontroller designs rarely display this level of elegance.
@maxtorque2277
3 жыл бұрын
clearly not true, have you seen INSIDE a typical microcontroller? It's BEAUTIFUL inside!! upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Die_of_PIC16C57_Microcontroller.jpg
@Peter_S_
3 жыл бұрын
@@maxtorque2277 I've been making commercial products based on the PIC16C57 since 1992, before flash memory existed. I spent months in the 1990s looking at the 16C57 die through the EPROM window as I developed code so yes, I've seen the 16C57 die before. In fact, I've seen 16C57 dies in hybrid modules and recognized them as PIC dies on sight. The 16C57 is not terribly elegant as dies go.
@stephengilman6247
3 жыл бұрын
Clive on some of these systems they also include a pressure sensor near the blower to confirm airflow
@johnsiders7819
3 жыл бұрын
The propane fired furnace in my RV has one of those in case the blower fails cuts off the gas so it does not overheat the heat exchanger its called on it a sail switch the moving air keeps it up and the gas valve open .
@andymouse
3 жыл бұрын
Blimey ! those mechanical guys never cease to amaze, a lot of work to figure this out...cheers.
@jamiejoker118
3 жыл бұрын
That looks complicated but simple at the same time who ever invented this made watches lol Love the Neons. So much detail Clive brilliant think I've watched all your videos now I watch your videos more than TV lol
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
I would love a Patek Phillipe version of this, Who needs TV when you have such impressive output from Clive
@casemodder89
3 жыл бұрын
Who wouldn't watch this all day ? 100.000 times more educational and just as entertaining if not X times more. My tv went to a dust collector since there are serious videos on youtube !
@johnmorgan1629
3 жыл бұрын
Nice example of mechanical circuitry and nice way people can be introduced to simple logic circuitry in physical form. But imagine the imagination and work it took to make the, Babbage Difference Machine, yet earlier still Antikythera Mechanism. By the way the channel Clickspring, not only explains how the elements of the Antikythera Mechanism interact, he is building one on his channel and showing how early tools could be used to do it too. He also builds other mechanical systems including clocks.
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
I love the 'Clickspring' channel, great enginerding! Have you been to the Science museum's Babbage section? The Analytical engine and Difference engines are a sight to behold, a true work of genius!
@johnmorgan1629
3 жыл бұрын
@@sofa-lofa4241 Not been to science museum no, sounds interesting though.
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnmorgan1629 Plenty of videos on KZitem if you're unable to get there in person after the current sh*t show is over
@arthurmann578
3 жыл бұрын
Wow! That controller just seems so unnecessarily complicated in a mechanical sense. The more mechanical contacts you have, the more intermittent problems you will eventually get. Here in the US they have become fully electronic. Even the old electro/mechanical Honeywell one that I replaced with a fully electronic one was so much simpler and SAFER in design. I actually managed to fix the old one and keep it as a "temporary" backup if necessary. Also, by the way, the safer older style one here does not allow the boiler to start if it already sees light BEFORE ignition. Leave out the flame sensor so it sees light BEFORE ignition, and the boiler will NOT start! Thank you Clive for a very interesting video, as usual! 👍👍 PS: I think you can still get the old style controllers here too if you still want one, but I have never seen one like this before.
@andyb6120
3 жыл бұрын
The person that designed that must be almost as clever as you!
@pdrg
3 жыл бұрын
Electromechanical designs like this are amazing
@pileggitech
3 жыл бұрын
What an amazing piece engineering. And your explanation and understanding of it was even more amazing. I really liked the last bit as seeing everything up close in great detail helped me understand the concept.
@arcadeuk
3 жыл бұрын
I've got lots of electro-mechanical stuff and it is absolutely fascinating. I think the guys that designed this stuff must have been proper engineers at the absolute top of their game. The introduction of microcontrollers has significantly decreased the required skill level to design products. I've been a software developer for decades, but could not have designed this contraption
@sadass4779
3 жыл бұрын
I found your video in Cody'slab chicken hole base playlist.
@BruteClaw
3 жыл бұрын
I think I like that better then our Honeywell RM7895A1014 that we use on commercial heating boilers. It's basically a highly tuned PLC for burner use. Much more elegant with the mechanical design.
@TheEPROM9
3 жыл бұрын
I love electromecanical logic systems such as this.
@shaneleary6259
3 жыл бұрын
Oil valve 2 contact could also be used as a run indicator
@Umski
3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating - it always surprises me how much thought went into electromechanical devices before electronics took over for the logic - gas valves with pilots are an interesting example too. I have an irritating intermittent fault on a 'newish' (20y) boiler where the ignition does 5 attempts to ignite and then locks-out - it then needs a physical reset before it tries again after which it's fine :/ - there are no ICs as such on the board, it's all discrete components - these days a microcontroller would do everything and be a whole load more complex (and probably fail after a few years!)
@Shmbler
3 жыл бұрын
Looks almost like my 30 year old Landis&Gyr LOA24, with the exception that mine additionally controls the oil preheater. So maybe thats what your second valve terminal is for. These things are so indestructible. Like the whole oil burner. The only thing that gives after decades is the rubber cap over the reset button.
@johnrehwinkel7241
2 жыл бұрын
Mine has an additional wrinkle that the blower is controlled by a temperature sensor on the heat exchanger. So the blower doesn't come on immediately (and blow cold air) when there's a call for heat, the flame starts, the heat exchanger warms up, and the blower kicks in. When the call for heat goes off, the burner shuts down, but the blower keeps going, extracting the remaining heat from the heat exchanger, and adding a little hysteresis to the system. When the heat exchanger cools off, the blower shuts down. It works quite well, except for when people get confused/worried when the blower doesn't follow the thermostat exactly.
@MikeB_UK
3 жыл бұрын
Your analog and mechanical videos are always really interesting. Wouldn't it be great to talk to the engineers who designed these things and learn how they thought? These days we visualise logic and programs to do this stuff, yet older analog and mechanical seems to have something magic about it.
@alpcns
3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely stunning what engineers can come up with electromechanically - and it's super-reliable, too. Microcontrollers, pah!
@eded8045
3 жыл бұрын
worthy for a thumbs up just for the artistic flame drawing ....seriously good break down of the inner workings Clive. what would my Auntie do without your channel on a frozen winters night ))))
@boriss.861
3 жыл бұрын
Clive just a thought as a user of Oil Heating... The Oil Valve 1 " High flow rate to heat water quickly. A pipe thermostat reaches a pre-set temperature activating Oil Valve 2 smaller jet for use once water reaches a pre-set temperature.. As seen on the Riello Gulliver burner or the much larger 2 or three stage Riello Burners.
@CollectiveSoftware
3 жыл бұрын
Neat little state machine
@garyhalsey7693
3 жыл бұрын
Impressive bit of kit and a brilliant explanation and demonstration!!
@Uncle-Duncan-Shack
3 жыл бұрын
That's a good one, it's a well thought out bit of kit. The video analysis of it's operation is nicely done, I like.
@Megatog615
3 жыл бұрын
It's not really related to the video, but you inspired me to fix my own pc mouse... with a good result!
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
Deadmau5 would be proud! I find the worst part of repairing P. C. Mice is getting them back together again
@creast56
3 жыл бұрын
OMG! Is that amazing or what? In this digital age there is still a place for mechanical ingenuity!
@sharedknowledge6640
3 жыл бұрын
Nice video. Technology Connections did a 2 part video of an electro mechanical jukebox for those into even more elaborate clever mechanical designs.
@jvoric
3 жыл бұрын
We’re not on mains gas here. (Old mining town) so this was interesting to see how this module works. Assuming that one of these is fitted to our HRM wallstar combi boiler system I had to press the reset that one time we ran out of oil. Heating oil is cheaper and the 1500 litre tank we have lasts a good while..
@usvalve
3 жыл бұрын
This is an amazing video, on equipment which takes me well outside my usual electronics zone. And it's so well presented and explained, I'm guessing it took a long time to plan, set up and shoot, and I appreciate the work. As for "how much of the rest I want to watch" -- well, more, dinner can wait! A circuit diagram (of the electromechanical bits) would be interesting, and I agree with Bob Watkins, a state diagram would really make operation clearer. We don't want much, do we? :-)
@Seegalgalguntijak
3 жыл бұрын
That is basically a mechanical computer program. Very clever! The amount of enginerding that went into developing this physical unit is orders of magnitude higher than what would nowadays go into writing a program for a µC to achieve the same thing. No wonder they're still using these, they can't crash unlike the µC.
@victortitov1740
3 жыл бұрын
if you misdesign one, it will crash. Check some videos on divide-by-zero on mechanical calculators, for example.
@NiyaKouya
3 жыл бұрын
Really interesting to see all those sanity/sequence checks implemented in hardware. But it kinda makes me wonder if the company/industry implemented them proactively or if they were forced by laws/regulations because no one cared and something went horribly wrong...
@Rolly369
3 жыл бұрын
could be an education video for plumbers... nicely made clive :)
@sofa-lofa4241
3 жыл бұрын
It should be a standard training video, but most of the time they will swap it out in the first 5 minutes and charge you for the priveledge.... Only to find out the fault is elsewhere
@WineScrounger
3 жыл бұрын
That is a work of genius. Great video, my cat enjoyed it too. We use kerosene space heaters sometimes, they have a fan run-on which cools the burner and stops it heat-soaking the outer shell. I must see if they use this kind of controller or a solid state module.
@StuReedy
3 жыл бұрын
That's some cool electro-mechanical engineering! Thanks for making this video!
@jhcaspers
3 жыл бұрын
Verry interesting. We basicly have the same modules here in Germany and I knew the mode of operation very well because we had some issues with an old oil furnace years ago. But I could never take one apart to see how it actually works as I only had one. For gas furnaces the modules are basically the same.
@seanb3516
3 жыл бұрын
I was troubleshooting a flame sensor and didn't know anything about their operation. I saw a few fine wires to the unit and assumed they were the 4-20mA signal line. When I touched them I got a few hundred volts of shock. Turns out the wires were the Excitation line and the sensor used high voltage to create spark potential. So long as the flame produced ultraviolet light the spark would continue. No UV gave no spark arc and the unit shut down. Fun game the whole 'Learning What the Black Box Does' is to play. [The sparks were barely visible and 1mm long at most]
3 жыл бұрын
This makes me remind the design of intrinsically safe railway relays with non-overlapping forcibly guided contacts. They are designed to be extremely reliable and if they fail, to do so in a predictable and safe manner with safe effects. All failure modes are fully known because they are based on physical properties. Such relays are a wonder of the 50ies. As nowadays smart brains are busy with AI, the smart brains of that era were busy designing all the little features of every part of wich such a relay/controller is made. Nothing is there for no purpose. Also, this is a wonder of mass production with stamped metallic parts, injection molded plastic parts, this has been produced in millions of exemplaries, if not dozen of millions.
@greendryerlint
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like design of reliable mechanical trickery like this is becoming a lost art when a 10 year-old can now program an Arduino to do something like this. As all the older engineers retire (or are forced out due to outsourcing and budget cuts), all the lore that goes into stuff like this is slowly lost.
3 жыл бұрын
@@greendryerlint when you need safety you can throw away the programmable stuff. Programmable safety-critical controllers are tremendously expensive as well as the system & software development process. But yeah knowledge about relay control, relay design and such is definitely fading out.
@danielgreenaway1587
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks big Clive, will go over relays. Already have the safety tether switch to put in circuit. Was going to put on Genny ignition, now maybe needs to be moved to motor feed line.
@danielgreenaway1587
3 жыл бұрын
# I mean the relay control signal is safety switched, not the three phase power. Don't really want 400v on the end of a cotton tether!
@ipanzerschrecku4732
3 жыл бұрын
Looks like a development of the electric control circuit for the Doble steam cars from 1917 where Abner Doble used quartz rods instead of the actuator.
@EngineeringVignettes
3 жыл бұрын
Very much like an alligator, this is a throwback to a bygone era that has somehow survived. Alas it's brethren did not and evolved into MCU controlled embedded systems. I would liken this to a mechanical state-machine or hybrid state-machine and sequencer... it is likely possible to describe it in a state machine diagram as well... Back in the _before times_ (in the long long ago) devices like this were _king of the hill_ . Mechanical PLCs and sequencing was pretty heavily used in early era (up to 70's) pinball machines for example. Another similar type of gear was the old telephone Strowger Switches used throughout the network to allow for self-dial telephone exchanges. I am amazed that this was not replaced by some programmable alternative to this day, perhaps its just cheaper and more reliable than a non-mechanical alternative. Or maybe, _if it works don't fix it_ prevailed here. Cheers,
@72polara
3 жыл бұрын
Nice to see a problem solved with engineering instead of a microcontroller.
@fazergazer
3 жыл бұрын
That sliding plate that acts like a logic circuit gate, requiring several things to happen in the right sequence, brilliant! Great vid Clive.
@robber576
3 жыл бұрын
Danfoss has a similar module, it is more or less, an industry standard. In the 80's i repaired high pressure power washers, the heated ones are diesel fueled. I can remember these units, in these days they were completely mechanical, very safe and reliable.
@BensWorkshop
3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks Clive. That really is quite clever!
@mnshp7548
3 жыл бұрын
beautiful demonstration, such a cool little board
@instrumenttech4220
3 жыл бұрын
Great explanation that’s a teaching video ps we call the nozzle guts a Spineret and the detractor is looking for UV light 💡 from the flame 🔥
@twobob
3 жыл бұрын
And THIS is why when the world ends Steampunk stuff will not only look cool but actually do useful stuff too.
@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489
3 жыл бұрын
I feel bad but obligated to say thank you for the absolutely basic tutorial of how internet videos work. There's a lot to be said about the seeming inability of viewers to take responsibility for how they watch videos. I find no fault in the way you present, from beginning to end... i can only imagine what sparked the need to bring it up on camera, but i think we're on the same page about it. I see you, sir.
@Shyshwak
3 жыл бұрын
With your knowledge you have to have great time with beer revert engineering this kind of stuff. And with your knowledge I would do the same. This device is very smart and safe, no joke, someone put a lot of effort into designing this, putting mechanical elements and its great that there is someone like you that can actually understand it and share it :O I know just simple basics, this is like witchcraft for me.
Пікірлер: 708