I was super hopeful you were gonna make this video!! Well done as always!!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! And of course! I had to see what Innova's take on a Zone was like! I couldn't resist!
@MESmith007
2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you differentiated between the Pig and the Zone. So often people say that the Pig is Innova’s Zone, but it’s not. They are different discs that can compliment one another very well. I bag both and they’re great!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed, I can totally see why you would bag both!
@seymourglass26
2 жыл бұрын
Pig has very little glide, even if I love it for a lot of shots.
@tonyg1011
Жыл бұрын
pigs are way more beat in able. zones stay os. pigs are just straighter
@MiniNoahTheWorm
2 жыл бұрын
Don't have anything to add about the disc, mostly just appreciate your style of videos. Quick and to the point but also just well-paced, thanks for a good video
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Glad you enjoy them!
@spencedowns4851
2 жыл бұрын
My zone is a cryztal flx and has been in the bag for 2 years as the most thrown disc I own, there’s not even a close second, so when I got the toro it filled a great spot for more stable finishes. I am still feeling this out, but hoping the toro stays like a fresh zone for a while. I actually found I could throw the toro farther on flat to hyzer shots, but probably because it takes the torque so well that I can throw it harder than my really beat zone and trust it not to turn over. I think the top on mine is flatter, I wasn’t bothered by the plus rim, and I LOVED the gummy feel of the star run, obviously as it’s similar to the flx zone. It actually kicked my 400 A2 out of the bag for now more than competing with my zone. (Love your videos, just offering a little perspective from another view!) ❤️👍🏼(worth noting, I only throw these forehand)
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Cryztal Zones are solid! I have a Cryztal Zone as my main in my bag! I just love the feel of it! And the toro is a great option for a more fresh like Zone! I can totally see what you mean about handling the torque better on a forehand!
@joshuagarza__
5 ай бұрын
I currently own a crzstal flx, and want to bag a champion toro. Do you think that the toro will be more stable and trustworthy worth on farther shots than my zone? I feel like that plastic should fly a little faster. Just curious.
@discbee9107
2 жыл бұрын
I never knew about a plus rim… maybe that’s why I don’t jive with the undertaker 🤔 thanks for the knowledge and more great content! I’m a huge fan
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Glad you like it!
@phillipdefreese3391
2 жыл бұрын
I didn’t know the undertaker had that rim, but I never felt comfortable throwing it, and that may be why!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that's how it usually is for me! A disc just isn't jiving for me for some reason... Then when take a closer look it's usually because of a plus rim!
@pjdiscgolf8742
2 жыл бұрын
im a Innova guy as well and i keeep a zone in the bag as well lol, i got me some toros but im stickin with the zone
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's one of those where if the Zone isn't quite as overstable enough for your liking... than the Toro is it! but if you like your Zone... There is still nothing quite like it! lol
@wesleygrogan5318
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the plus rim has a decent place, I'm not sure that I like them as much either, that was what we found may have been hurting my release angle. Great review, love the honesty!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! and yeah, a lot of people don't mind them!
@donkarnage6032
2 жыл бұрын
I actually just recently took my Z Zone out of my bag in favor of a Glow Champ Gator I bought used. What I like about the Gator versus the Zone, for me anyways, is that the Gator always comes up short of where I think it's going. I'm never overthrowing the target with the Gator. I don't think the 4 vs 5 speed makes that big of a difference considering that most people think the Zone is a midrange.
@conorquiring5569
2 жыл бұрын
solid man, I was wanting to give the gator a shot as well I Think I'm leaning more towards the gator but still will give the Toro a try
@brian6speed
2 жыл бұрын
There is a big difference between a 4 speed approach versus 5-6 speed OS mid. I bag a zone or toro and also a deflector. Deflector is way more beef than any 4 speed approach disc and goes way further. The deflector also skips way more than a 4 speed. I prefer a beadless mid like Deflector over a beaded mid like gator.
@donkarnage6032
2 жыл бұрын
@@brian6speed I agree with you there can be a difference but not necessarily when the OS mid has a low glide rating. A Gator is a 2 glide as where the Deflector is a 4 glide. I've not tried a Deflector yet. I have a Pyro which should be similar but it didn't really have a place in my bag at the moment. After trying lots of different mids I ended up coming back to the Roc3. I like the Gator because it feels and flies like a beefier Roc3. The beaded/beadless thing doesn't bother me much. I'm more interested in the flight. I just felt the Gator(the one I own) and the Zone were very similar and didn't need to bag both of them.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I can totally see that about the Gator! the bead made it hard for me to forehand as well as the Zone! But I did bag the Gator for a while there. it's a solid disc!
@chuckwalla123
2 жыл бұрын
@@donkarnage6032 the pyro is not very similar to a deflector. The deflector is borderline silly beef. I have both and like both for different reasons. But the deflector feels like it is approaching tilt levels of overstable.
@YoungOneJim
2 жыл бұрын
Ive bagged an aviar x3 for ages which was maybe one of the closest discs in innovas lineup to that zone, its one of my favorite discs but I still bag a harp because the aviar has that putter tendancy of liking to glide a little in wind, the toro looks like it has an interesting spot for that innova approach disc!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Toro would definitely pair well with the AviarX3. I think it would be even better in the wind than your Harp. I have always thought the Harp wouldn't hook up as much and glide more in the wind than my Zone. and this is a touch more overstable and less glidey than my Zone!
@CommonSenseCriticism
2 жыл бұрын
I think the aviarx3 is a great zone replacement. I got an ace on the 2nd throw with mine.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I have heard the AviarX3's are great! I haven't gotten to throw one yet
@reidkemp
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly it doesn’t matter if it’s a harp, an A2, or an entropy. The approach disc is very important in the bag, and there’s one for everyone
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
totally agree! I think everyone can use an overstable approach disc in the bag! And there are so many good options, you for sure can find one you really click with!
@hiddenleaf414
Жыл бұрын
It does for the feel of the hand. Entropy and Harp are a lot deeper of a disc than a Zone, Tactic or Toro. I can’t get the same flight out of them with the same effort. People should have one of the approach discs but it does matter which one works best for their hand.
@BUBBLEBEARD
2 жыл бұрын
The Caiman filled that spot for me for several years.
@zackwygant583
Жыл бұрын
Plus rim doesn’t bother me - I back load grip most approach shots and love it. Bag zones and a Toro
@andrewmcauliffe5714
2 жыл бұрын
That sounds cool. Never tried a plus rim I would like too.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's definitely hit or miss with people!
@MK212074
2 жыл бұрын
glad you're talking about this. one of those things very few people ever talk about or even notice, but has bothered me forever with certain molds. the very first PD I ever threw, I noticed the plus rim IMMEDIATELY. It has never bothered me backhand, but as a player who throws an equal amount of forehands, that type of rim completely throws off my release. first disc I ever noticed it with was the L64 Flow back in the day. amazing for backhands, but couldn't forehand it to save my life thanks to the slanted rim.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that's why a lot of the pros preferred the early runs of the PD because I think it had a normal rim! I think the first runs were the ones with the normal rims
@ultrapail
3 ай бұрын
Stick it on your dash on a hot day, you’ll get a puddle top. Also would you call the rim on a Glitch a +++?
@arctic3od450
2 жыл бұрын
Have you tried the Rat? I haven't thrown it myself, but I was under the impression that it was the closes thing to a Zone that innova had before the Toro.
@neilhaggerty1878
2 жыл бұрын
Came here to say this. Rat has almost identical stats and nearly identical feel imo.
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
I have a Zone, Rat, and Toro and in my experience the Rat is less stable than the Zone or Toro, and the Toro is the closest disc Innova has to the Zone now. I use the Aviar, Aviar3, AviarX3, Rat, and then Toro as my 5 approach discs. I also use the Pig but I classify it as a small-diameter midrange. 🙂
@neilhaggerty1878
2 жыл бұрын
@@NickCarroll oh good to know! Although that could be because the rat only comes in star. I bet if they made champ ones they would be pretty overstable.
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
@@neilhaggerty1878 Yeah the Rat is definitely a lower profile disc, and at least the one I have is board flat. It's just a tick more stable than my AviarX3 and while I mostly rely on my Aviar3 and X3, it's nice to know I have the Rat and Toro there just in case. They're 2 levels of high stability I can rely on for certain shots.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't tried the Rat before! I have heard it's close though!
@BodanzaDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Great vid. I keep wanting to pick up every new disc but also don't have unlimited budget! lol, I'm still loviing my zones
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
lol, you and me both!
@Meta-Drew
2 жыл бұрын
Eh, the envy is canted out a a few degrees and that's one of the hottest and most popular throwers out there right now(and a personal favorite). I can understand not liking the rim it if it doesn't work for the disc, but automatically not liking discs because of it seems odd to me. I look at people who hate/love beads the same way, for me it depends on the disc itself and I think judging a disc on one tiny characteristic only costs yourself potentially finding discs that would be great if only you could get past your naïve personal preferences to try something new. Then again, I've spent weeks and months bagging bad discs trying to learn to love them too so maybe I am too forgiving, I suppose we all get to build our bag in our own way.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
It's not that I won't try a disc that has a plus rim! But it a disc is feeling weird when throwing and such... I would personally rather just find something that does feel good and gives me confidence rather than trying to make something work... especially since there are so many great options out there for every slot in the bag. why settle for something that doesn't quite fit your preferences, you know?
@jdlburg938
2 жыл бұрын
Wow. That's flat out good content. Glad to support creators like you 👌
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I really appreciate it, and glad you like the content!
@BryceRogers_
2 жыл бұрын
Never knew about plus-rims. I’m very intrigued. Good vid!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, they don't call them that anymore, and they just put them on various mold. and every company has them! I just don't know what else to call it... You are either indifferent about them or really don't like them... I have never met someone who prefers them... lol
@serenityinsilence
Жыл бұрын
I have an esp zone, but my backup is a vip harp. I’ve never tried the toro, but I don’t think I’d like the plus rim.
@stevendeckert6373
2 жыл бұрын
Man, I wondered why the undertaker felt weirdly bad. Now I know what a plus rim is. I love my zone.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
The zone is just so good!
@Kuljusteri
Жыл бұрын
If you have to choose between Pig, Toro, Gator and Aviarx3, which would you bag ? Im having this issue right now 🤔
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
If I had to I would probably bag the Toro and the AviarX3. Those two are different enough to bag both and the Toro is much more versatile for my game than the Gator is. I could never comfortably forehand the Gator on a forehand.
@lokinakor1
2 жыл бұрын
I have an Archon that has a bit of a groove in the inside rim that makes it slightly concave. I love this more than any other version, but it is the only disc I have like it, even among other Archons.
@justinwouters
Жыл бұрын
@apollodiscgolf - I noticed you said you throw roc3s... I bag a champ one in Max weightfor my over stable mid slot and have been bagging both star aviar3 and aviarx3 for my stable/overstablea pproach / upshot slot. I'm curious why you felt the need for this zone type spot having a roc3 and I'm sure an overstable throwing putter in your bag? Did you find it necessary? Love your videos!
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I always felt the need for the Zone in my bag... Granted the AviarX3 wasn't out back then... but I just liked the Zone because it was more overstable and slower than the Roc3, and it was just better for forehands since it was shallower without a bead! Like a shorter gator with a touch less overstability.
@claybelli3880
Жыл бұрын
Love to see a kc native!
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
💪🏼💪🏼
@gavingrider7884
Жыл бұрын
I would have to completely disagree about the +rim. I absolutely love it. It feels better and releases better. I wish they would put the + on more discs.
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, there are definitely people that love them! I am just not a fan personally!
@davidlegoff1913
6 ай бұрын
Very well explained. Thank you. I agree with your thoughts on the Toro. I don't think its that good and I'm probably going to switch to the Zone. Late the game 😂.
@salommy
2 жыл бұрын
Not to forget, availability and price point greatly differ.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but that’s because the Toro technically hasn’t come out yet. They have just released the limited runs and such… I’m sure these will eventually get their stock release and be just as available as the Zone! I’m not too worried about that. What will be interesting to see is the difference between the limited runs and the stock runs
@chislicer5167
2 жыл бұрын
From my perspective the first Zone-like disc was the Gator. I was so pumped when it came out because I was literally looking for an overstable mid that fit between Firebird (or something like that) and a Rhyno (which was really the only thing like that on the market). People on internet forums argued if you couldn't manipulate a Firebird or a Roc to do that short range hyzer line, it was you problem. Gator changed the game for me, tho, easy to throw, dumps out and sits. Coming back to DG after a pretty long hiatus I thought the Zone just totally nailed it; like a gator but a touch more glide but I still totally understand if people prefer the Gator for its lack of glide. I now throw the Entropy because I'm a big fan of the more putter like deeper rim. If I was more sidearm dominant tho, I'd pick a Zone. Anyways, it's a really fun spot in the bag to fill and I love the options out there!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Lol. I love that logic of the roc and Firebird 😂 People just don’t like change… and I agree, there is definitely a place for the Gator that the Roc and Firebird can’t do! And the options really are getting so good!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
You don’t have to settle anymore… for the most part you can find exactly what you want!
@conorquiring5569
2 жыл бұрын
great vid man, Imma have to try it out. I'm rocking a Justice as my utility midrange but am looking to bag all innova.
@brian6speed
2 жыл бұрын
Justice is not the same slot.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Toro would be a slightly different beast than the Justice... I think they both have a place in the bag! if you are looking for something like a Justice from Innova's camp I would try out the MOAB from Hyzerbomb... the rim is pretty deep, but its a beefcake like the Justice! maybe even more overstable than the Justice
@FizzyP
2 жыл бұрын
When the plus rims first came out I couldn't stand them and still can't. But, if you remember, when all the 3 versions came out (Roc3, Mako3, Leopard3, etc) those all had a toned down plus rim (in addition to other features). The rims weren't quite straight but they weren't splayed out nearly as much as the + versions. They were somewhere in the middle. IMHO, the 3s nailed it. The Roc3 and Mako3 in particular are noticeably easier to get a clean release out of, especially forehand, than the originals, which are much more likely to feel as if they're catching on your fingers and joints.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I have never had an issue with the Roc3's rim! They are great!
@maxwellj7049
2 жыл бұрын
I used to throw zones but no matter what plastic after a few weeks or months for higher grade they would start beat in and flip in a way that was ok bh, but made the FH feel less predictable. Don't get me wrong, i still bag a beat in zone for straight FH approach shots, but for me the A2 by prodigy is just a solid disk especially once you beat it in a bit. Only trouble i get with it is it can go a little to far sometimes when i am not expecting it.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the A2 is BEEFY!!! I personally haven't had a problem with my zones beating in too fast. My current cryztal zone I have had in the bag since 2012 and still great in a wind!
@gfunktuba1
Жыл бұрын
Interested in how the toro compares with the Sockibomb Slammer. Has anyone compared them?
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
That would be a good comparison! My guess is that the Sockibomb Slammer is shorter and beefier, but I haven't compared them side by side yet!
@bigwooly8014
2 жыл бұрын
Innova needs to bring back the OG XD. Not an XD plus. Just a regular old XD. Best putter ever made for my hands.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I haven't tried an XD before!
@discgolfteacher
2 жыл бұрын
Had no idea what a plus rim is. Interesting! Thanks!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah! not really sure what else to call it, Innova was the only one to really "name" it at all!
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
The Plus mold is a licensed term by Innova, so others might do it, but they don't use that term. I find that you pretty much have to look at each disc to see if they've used it or not. All my 3-series discs that are mids or fairway drivers have a bit of the Plus mold built into it, or it's just a side-effect of these discs being the flatter versions of the non-3-series models. Maybe flattening the flight plate makes the inner rim more diagonal. I can't tell. Innova has different "technologies." VTech is their first (starting with the Shark in 1987), Plus is their second (XD+, Roc+, and TeeBird+ as callouts, but they've used it elsewhere), 3-series is their third (Aviar3, Roc3, Leopard3). They also X-series and L-series discs, where X-series are typically the original (more stable) molds (Eagle, TeeBird, Beast) but in some cases are new (RhynoX) molds, and the L-series which are generally less stable versions of the same discs (Eagle-L, Teebird-L, FL, SL). Lastly, they have some discs where they combine technologies, like the VTech and 3-Series discs (Wombat3, Shark3, Leopard3) or X and 3-Series (AviarX3, RocX3).
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, they stopped branding the discs as plus discs. they just started putting the plus rim on different molds. and nobody else has ever branded it (maybe because the branding didn't work with Innova..) so I just call it a plus rim because I don't really know what else to call it!
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yeah from the research I've done the Plus mold wasn't received well, and was very hit or miss. On the aside it doesn't bother me at all. The 3-series name was really used in only their 2017-2018 time frame, and I think they might still use that "flattening" technology on newer discs but without the callouts, as they did with other tricks they used over the decades. And VTech they've used in a lot of discs without specifying. So it's been hard to really nail down specifics across all their molds. Lastly, Thumbtrac is another "technology" they use - not limited to them, but it's found popularity the way they use it, on a number of their discs.
@FizzyP
2 жыл бұрын
When the "+ rim" discs were originally released it was pretty extreme. The "3 series" that immediately followed was a compromise: +-ish but not slanted nearly so much as the actual +-molds. I don't think making the 3-molds lower profile has much to do with the inside rim. They just made both changes at the same time.
@hiddenleaf414
Жыл бұрын
Love the Zone but I wish Discraft’s ESP was more gummy like Innova’s Star.
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, it’s interesting because you can find Gummy Esp Buzzzes and such. But yeah, most of the ESP Zones I have seen are pretty stiff! But I like the stiffer plastic so I’m fine with it 😂
@evanstanek5838
2 жыл бұрын
The new run of MD3 feels like it has a plus rim but I could be wrong... in any case, besides grip, how does that affect flight?
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
To be honest... I have no idea how it affects the flight... It could cause it to have less glide since the air can escape easier? But that is literally a shot in the dark...
@evanstanek5838
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf me neither, I've thrown many of those molds and none made my bag so I'm wondering if it's a flight thing, grip thing, snap thing? Anyways, thanks for confirming it's real!!
@batjeep5ter947
2 жыл бұрын
Just got an aviarx3 and now I might be getting a Toro because the x3 is nice for inside 250' but I really want to try that plus rim for my flex forehand approach shots for that 250'-350' range it looks like it flies true to its numbers
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Dang, if you can forehand a Toro 350’ then you’ve got a cannon forehand!
@batjeep5ter947
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf not a cannon just been trying to increase my average max distance for each style of disc I have for forehand and backhand, my forehand driver shots are able to land bullseye on a few 450' shots but more consistent at 400' sadly my backhand shots are just starting to catch up to that
@FaithfulMC
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this, This has same flight numbers as the discmania tactic and I was looking for a new one as mine is a bit too beat-in already, plus-rim is a huge turn-off for me, so this disc is a no-go
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I need to make a video on that Tactic compared to these! I would say the Tactic is a touch less overstable than all of these though. But it's been a while since I have thrown one and compared them!
@drewfasa
2 жыл бұрын
I suspect Innova doesn't have the quality control to put a consistently flat top on the Toro. That's what I love about Zones, I can buy them online and know they'll all throw the same. Innova...🤣🤣🤣
@jackl4laughs
2 жыл бұрын
Or, and hear me out, Big Jerm screwed up Hyzerbomb Mortars when they made them way less stable. Those always flew better than Zones to me, but they changed the stability years back and they aren't the same...
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
I remember watching Jerm's first in the bag for Innova and he pointed out how much he liked the Mortar, so maybe he didn't request any change in the mold, but perhaps it still got changed (inadvertently or purposefully) by Innova afterwards, but not through any input from Jerm. Just my two cents. 🙂
@jackl4laughs
2 жыл бұрын
@@NickCarroll from what I heard he wanted it more stable and less of a meat hook, he even said so in an In The Bag when he bragged of the his new tour series Mortars a few years back. It was unique from Innova, now its just another meh midrange.
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
@@jackl4laughs I just wish I could get one. 🤣
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
That's weird, the Mortar I tried was from before Big Jerm went to Innova... Like I threw a Jared Roan Mortar, and it just wasn't as stable for me as the Zone, and glided a lot more... maybe I got a weird one!
@NickCarroll
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf I have no doubt yours was a different stability than the one Jerm had - I know Innova has a reputation with their molds. I've had good luck with them, but I seem to be an outlier. 😂
@noblejennette2101
8 күн бұрын
Innova Gator and Lone Star Horny Toad, these two discs cover the range you’re looking for.
@readguthrie1241
Жыл бұрын
Just came to say that is a sweet stamp, which is something Innova doesn’t really do that well. I’ve noticed this years stamps are pretty rad
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Yeah they have been upping their specialty run stamps! They have been sweet! Their new stock stamps they are putting out though… 😬
@thejesusandmannychain95
2 жыл бұрын
I'm an innova guy but have also been bagging the westside anvil as that midrange approach disc in my bag. Never thrown a zone before but still wanna try the toro. I'd say the Anvil another good choice for people that want a disc that fills the same slot
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Anvil is super beefy! like even more so than the Toro! I think the Anvil is a completely different beast! kind of like the A2 from Prodigy. I can see someone bagging a Zone type disc along with an Anvil/A2 type disc
@EbinTomatoh
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf I bag a Harp and an Anvil both in premium plastic and they compensate eachother so well. I'd definitely recommend bagging both types of discs
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@EbinTomatoh Yeah, they can definitely cover 2 different types of shots. The Harp/Zone being a little more controllable and the A2 just being a meathook that you can lean on a little more for it's stability
@DnBGolf
2 жыл бұрын
More overstable than like an ESP Zone? The Z Zone is pretty beefy.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the Zone I was comparing it to was a Big Z Zone, it is the most overstable out of the Zones that I have. But I also don't have a recent Z Zone, this was the newest one that I owned... I haven't purchased a new Zone in a long time... lol
@robertoillanes9942
2 жыл бұрын
Good informative video man. You got a sub from me.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
@brannnnnnn
Жыл бұрын
I like plus rim. I can get way better grip in toro vs zone. To each their own I suppose
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Yeah for sure! That’s what’s great about the sport! I personally don’t love plus rims… but other might not care or even prefer it!
@nathanielvilla8765
2 жыл бұрын
Have you used and aviar x3?
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I have not! I have heard good things about it though!
@jonathanb5464
Жыл бұрын
Ok so as a fellow plus rim hater...do you notice when some of the Halo Wraiths and Destroyers come out with non vertical rims? I swear I've noticed that with multiple runs, including Jonesboro Heimburg and the og Halo Wraiths. Nobody believes me when I talk about this haha
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
I have noticed that on the Halo Wraith! Which I notice a little bit… but I just cope with it on those because it’s just the Halo one and I don’t use it all that much! But yeah… it’s weird they put it on the halo ones when their stock ones are still normal!
@drewg3087
2 жыл бұрын
Innova will never touch a Zone or Moonshine Harp. Both amazing.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
The Zone and Harp are definitely S-tier!
@jck5123
2 жыл бұрын
What about the rat?
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I personally haven't thrown a Rat... I have heard that it is similar though!
@tylerkobylarz4502
28 күн бұрын
I’ve always been all innova BUT……… I’ve always bagged a zone! Hoping the toro can replace it
@MicahHicksDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
AviarX3 was probably the closest disc to a Zone before the Toro. I'm not really a huge fan of companies copying other peoples disc designs, but I do understand the need for the Toro for Innova players.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I have always wanted to try an Aviarx3! I haven't gotten around to trying one yet... But I thought those were closer to a Harp like disc, maybe a touch less overstable and more glide? All I know is that Big Jerm can shred with those!
@MicahHicksDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf It feels and looks like a deeper zone. And yes it has a bit more glide but other than that its pretty similar.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@MicahHicksDiscGolf I will have to check one out!
@brian6speed
2 жыл бұрын
Claiming Zones are puddle top is just false. I have flat and domey zones as well. I also have over 10 Toros and some are puddle top, some are flat, and some have dome. Then claiming the Toro is more stable than a Zone really depends on what Zone you have. They vary in stability quite a bit. My puddle top cryztal zones are more stable than Toro. I also found my color glow Toro to be more stable than my star toro.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah that doesn't surprise me about the Color Glow ones being more overstable. But this Zone I compared was a pretty overstable one, it's more overstable than my Cryztals, because that's what I usually bag. And most Zone, at least the ones that people look for the most are the puddle top ones. And they have puddle tops more often than most discs!
@bensieber6960
2 жыл бұрын
What about the Harp? Seems like a great sub for the Zone and comes in a wide range of plastic.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I have personally not found the Harp to be quite as overstable or glide-less as the Zone! but I also haven't thrown the Harp in a while... But I just found the Zone is a bit more reliable in the wind, and since its shallower, it works better for my forehand approaches!
@bensieber6960
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf I hear you on all those points. I think for my old-man, newbie arm speed the Harp is plenty over stable and doesn't really glide. I agree on the depth too. I've been putting with Gateway Chiefs, and have a couple Chief OS's that are quite shallow. I haven't had a chance to try them out in a stiff wind yet. They look like a squished down Harp so I'm hopeful.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@bensieber6960 Yeah I haven't tried a Chief yet!
@thomaswiley4719
2 жыл бұрын
Were you using a new zone to compare? That Toro looked fresh!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
This Zone was pretty new, and it's a more overstable one from my stash, and it's been thrown a bit, but not that much. It usually sits in my backups and I pull it out if I know the round it going to be really windy and I don't think I would trust my 10 year old Cryztal Zone!
@discgolfprofessor
Жыл бұрын
Can’t stand Plus Molds. Good review
@drunkonsomedrpepper
2 жыл бұрын
Not every zone has a puddle top and different runs/plastics are going to compare differently to the toro because the toro has not had that type of run/plastic variation yet. It's going to be hard for any company's zone clone to beat the original because they aren't exact copies. Good that innova has finally gotten a mold that can fill that spot for their pros, but for the average mixed bag disc golfer the zone is the way to go because it has so many different plastics to choose from you can pick the one you like and you know it is going to act like a zone instead of getting a zone clone that is more/less overstable, has more/less glide, is flatter/domier, is plus mold/not.
@brian6speed
2 жыл бұрын
all Discraft plastic sucks
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, this is one of my more overstable Zone's and it's pretty new! So the Toro being more overstable is pretty good! I would assumed in general they will be more overstable. And I definitely think mixed bag people if they want a zone, then they just need to get a zone... But if they are wishing the Zone is a little more overstable for them... then the Toro is great... if they think the Zone is a touch too overstable... Than the Distortion is going to be solid!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know... Discraft's plastic has gotten a ton better since around 2017-2018... right before Paul came, their plastic was getting really good! Then once Paul came people saw how much better their plastic had gotten!
@calebcrow223
3 ай бұрын
What happend to the innova rat?
@caseybartholow8466
2 жыл бұрын
If you didn't tell me it had a plus rim, I wouldn't have noticed. I'm in the camp of it doesn't bother me. I love both my star and champ glow Toro.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah there are a lot of people in that camp! Some disc just feel a little bit off for me.. then when I look closer its always because of a plus rim! But some discs it doesn't bother me... like I think the Roc3 has a plus rim? and I LOVE my pro Roc3's!
@serkka8
2 жыл бұрын
Same here. Didn't notice it and i'm loving it.
@micah_lee
2 жыл бұрын
Never heard of the naming “plus rim” but I had sort of noticed that it was a thing
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's really an Innova term, they started it with giving molds a "plus" version of them (ie. Teebird+, Eagle+, Leopard+) which were just those discs with the slanted out rim, but they stopped it. I'm assuming because it didn't sell well. Now they just make molds with it. Like every Leopard now has a plus rim, and this... Other companies have it, but nobody really names it... So I just call it a plus rim
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
other people call it a plus rim too... I'm not the only one! lol
@badgerspvcoachellis2436
2 жыл бұрын
Plus rim is genius for sidearm! I hate the feel of zones, they feel like they slant inward to me, so I’ve always thrown a Buzzz OS and Ringer GT instead. I may have to try this disc now, I think every putter and mid should have plus rims.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Dang, you might be the first person I have heard of that actually prefers plus rims! lol. I have always just met people that are indifferent and don't care either way or they hate them... I haven't heard of someone who prefers them! lol
@badgerspvcoachellis2436
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf . Hopefully I’m understanding it correctly. The Ringer GT and Buss OS have very vertical walls (not slanted inward). I always thought the plus rims were just deeper, like a Roc +🤷♂️
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@badgerspvcoachellis2436 The plus discs have usually referred to the rims being slightly slanted outwards. The Roc+ very well could have been deeper, I don't know, but the + at the end should have referred to the slanted out rim!
@iAmAzwell
Жыл бұрын
Did you try the Toro? If so, how does it compare to the Buzzz OS?
@badgerspvcoachellis2436
11 ай бұрын
@@iAmAzwell , the toro is very similar to the zone for me, but it feels better in the hand. More neutral rim. The difference is the toro doesn’t fade as hard at low speeds, and is a touch slower.
@KnKPanda
2 жыл бұрын
I felt like it was closer to a 5 speed 4.5 / 3.5 / 0 / 3.5 Has a larger diameter. And a larger swing fade
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting... The one that I got has a smaller diameter than my Zone. It definitely has a bigger fade though!
@Samwisegrahagee
2 жыл бұрын
I know that course anywhere. Been sometime since playing in Kansas.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I love the courses around here! KC is so underrated
@chandlerlex5265
2 жыл бұрын
Now that you mentioned the plus rim I now know why I hate the undertaker. Always feels like it slips out of my hand
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah! The Undertaker is an amazing mold! But yeah, I feel the same way about it... I just can never get myself to bag them, the confidence just isn't there... but they are still pretty fun to throw!
@micahmilam914
2 жыл бұрын
I think the prodigy distortion is the closest zone copy around
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I would agree! the Distortion is really nice!
@reen1346
2 жыл бұрын
I checked my local shop and all the calvin toros were domey as heck. It was weird. This one looks flat.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the one I got is board flat!
@tonyg1011
Жыл бұрын
does it say "I mistake"? like the letter i? lol do you mean 1?
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Where are you talking about? I probably misspoke or something... I do that a lot and don't catch it 😂
@tonyg1011
Жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf it's the chapter at the end of the vid
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Ah, I see it now! Yeah that was definitely a typo… good catch! Thank you! 😂
@mkmrtn952
2 жыл бұрын
you should try a rat!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I have heard that is good! I will have to check it out!
@brickchains1
2 жыл бұрын
the toro is slightly larger diameter than the zone based on pdga specs 21.2 vs 21.1
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, that's really interesting! Because holding it up next to my Zone it is definitely a bit smaller in diameter... I forgot to get a shot of it for this video though..
@idiocracy9530
2 жыл бұрын
I'm using a Harp. I've been told it's the same as a zone. Never tried a zone tho.
@brian6speed
2 жыл бұрын
Harp has a bead zone doesn't
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I personally found the Harp to be a touch less overstable and it has more glide than the Zone... But I also haven't thrown a Harp in a good long while! like talking 7ish years... lol
@idiocracy9530
2 жыл бұрын
Well, i've only played a year. Have never tried a zone, i started using a harp about 2 months ago. I like it.
@DnBGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I think the Anode has a plus rim from MVP. I swear the A2 has a minus rim
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, the A2 is a solid disc! It's super beefy though!
@kennethmartinsen5106
2 жыл бұрын
Try Loki from Viking Discs.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting... I haven't heard of them before!
@warrenmackeydiscdragons
Жыл бұрын
Hey brah the Gator I’ll see ya later don’t be a hater you know the Raiders are greater
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
We'll see Saturday 🤷♂️
@dyounger3021
2 жыл бұрын
We need Simmon to make another request to Lat64 to make a putter version of the Tilt.
@justwondering1926
2 жыл бұрын
Have you heard of the Stego…
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, I wouldn't find very much use out of a disc that overstable! The Zone is just enough beef for me! Overstable enough for winds, but workable enough for my touchy shots!
@x2XStrikerX0x
2 жыл бұрын
I tried the Caiman, was decent for the forehand but I never liked it for backhands. it would flip a little more than I wanted when powering into it.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think the Caiman is also a beadless Gator isn't it? If that's the case then yeah it doesn't surprise me... the Mortar (beadless Gator) wasn't too overstable, it was pretty straight for most of it's flight!
@x2XStrikerX0x
2 жыл бұрын
@@ApolloDiscGolf I believe it was supposed to be the beadless gator but I feel like the gators somehow had more stability. I would say the bead but that's more or less been debunked on its effect of stability.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
@@x2XStrikerX0x Why do you say the beaded vs beadless thing has been debunked? I am pretty sure the bead is for sure what makes the Gator more overstable. It makes the disc less aerodynamic and as a result resists the wind more and fades faster, earlier. There are definitely beaded discs that aren't overstable. But the bead makes it more overstable than it would have been without the bead.
@discjunkiesDGT
2 жыл бұрын
you gotta toss a Reko or Reko X!!
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I will have to try those out! the plastic from the Berg was really nice!
@wisherb1
2 жыл бұрын
I will keep my anvil
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
The Anvil is a beef cake! A little too overstable for my liking... But that's just me! I can see why a bunch of people would like it!
@chrisrhome6638
2 жыл бұрын
Star Rat
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't tried a Rat! I have heard those are good too though!
@BioHorse
2 жыл бұрын
Harp the best
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
I never found the Harp to be quite as overstable or glide-less as the Zone for me! and that's what I love the Zone for, the dependable touch shots in the heavy winds with it's lack of glide!
@theoriginaltylerdurden
Жыл бұрын
Just buy a zone and be happy with it
@johnborden6545
2 жыл бұрын
They are the same disc.... Give it 3 years... run specific...
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
idk, they are pretty different in the hand. And I have been throwing Zones since 2012 and I haven't had a Zone as beefy as this... but then again I haven't purchased a ton of zones... I have owned maybe 8-9 in that 10 year span
@meister-t
Жыл бұрын
Just use a Roc.
@ApolloDiscGolf
Жыл бұрын
Apparently you haven’t tried a forehand approach with a roc in a 40mph headwind… 😂
@ahhhmedia8749
2 жыл бұрын
I'm kinda upset now. Just bought one of these online because I wanted to see what Calvin did with his Toro. Now I see it isn't a unique disc but a zone rip off... It was a bad last minute call. I have a couple zones already... uhg
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
It's not exactly like a Zone... it's definitely beefier than the zone! it won't go as far... and has a different feel! But yeah. I think it would replace a zone in someones bag. I don't know if anyone would have both in the bag...
@redsleaves
2 жыл бұрын
The stamp says Toad.
@itisjustmedude
2 жыл бұрын
You should be using a fan grip on this disc. If you use more than a back loaded grip on an approach disc you are going to grip lock it or lose consistency trying to time your release.
@garrettjrussell
2 жыл бұрын
It all depends on your hand size. Paul McBeth doesn't fan grip any disc. He even power grips all of his throwing putters.
@ApolloDiscGolf
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was about to say that about Paul. I power grip everything, even on touchy approaches and it works pretty well for me! If I grip lock it, then that's just a bad throw by me... and with a power grip you can still front load or back load it!
@sireroyal9063
2 жыл бұрын
I grew up on innova, but i will never be a fan due to the "destroyer" paradox. in 5 years everyone is going to be looking for one specific run of toro and it will be overpriced because its the only run that flys a certain way.. They ripped off MVP overmold with the Atlas, a lot of their former team pros generally dont have a lot of "positive" and more just avoid talking about their experience with Innova, I say that speaks volumes of how they run their company now
Пікірлер: 215