I fucking love your videos! It reminds me the good old Toms Hardware days, 2003-2006.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Tuna Yücer Thank you! Those were the best years :)
@mtunayucer
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab yeah, and u r the only channel that make videos about 2003-2006 Windows XP era. Thats why i love your videos! Keep on going bro!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
That time period is very dear to me. Sure it's not my retro period, but first job, had some money but still on a budget. I can now play around with all the toys I drooled about back in the day. And compared to the older gear they are dirt cheap :) I have some great videos planned, just waiting for some parts. There is always one part missing Haha.
@mtunayucer
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Im waiting 4 that videos! :)
@altarofmelektaus0032
8 жыл бұрын
Not only that, but the stuff from the Pentium 4 era is dirt cheap, especially the socket 462 platform.
@Mr1stlevel
8 жыл бұрын
I miss when they used to put artwork on video cards
@hmbrz
8 жыл бұрын
if you consider that the XP runs at 2.2GHz and that socket A was introduced to compete with Pentium 3, the results are quite solid for AMD, also you could easily buy a cheaper XP 2500+ and run it as 3200+ (to be honest Intel also had the P4C 2.4GHz which as great for OC), AMD was strong and cost effective back then, nice testing, also I liked seeing the nforce 2 showing a clear advantage over KT600 :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+hmbrz Thanks :) In around 2003 / 2004 I built myself a machine, it was a P4 with Asus 865 chipset board and a 2.6 GHz chip. I had a 4 year break from computers before that, so maybe I got onboard just at the right time when Intel was decent. I did get an Athlon 64 system later though...
@mesicek7
8 жыл бұрын
Athlon 64 3000+ was my longest running pc. Had it for more than 10 years until it finally said goodbye in 2014. Cant wait for your next ep cheers
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Mahone Nice! I also can't wait. I'm playing around with some new space animations, always a challenge. The "art" side of things is not my strongest area, but I'm learning a lot as I go along :D
@marcelocorpucci1742
4 жыл бұрын
Wonderful video, Phil! I really like all P4 vs AthlonXP episodes. Time flies, now you've gained a lot of followers and your channel became a lot bigger. You deserve it, man! I strongly recommend to all new members to take a look at this series of episodes! Cheers from Argentina.
@philscomputerlab
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@marco_evertus
8 жыл бұрын
Athlon 64 approaches owww I am so excited for it...
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Rounak Dutta It's a really exciting retro time!
@ruslanmathvich8593
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab you have to overclock your socket 939 cpu up to 2.7GHz at least! It must be overclocked. It's easiest cpu for overclocking!!! Just get proper motherboard on NF4 chipset.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I'll follow the timeline of how the chips came out in the past. Eventually I will get to the Core 2 Duo :)
@nathan386dx40
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab So pumped! Do you think you'll ever go back and compare some earlier rival chips, like P3 vs K6-2, Pentium vs Am5x86, Am286 vs 386SX, or Cyrix offerings? I can't get enough of your awesome videos!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Hey thank you :) I don't see why not!
@natr0n
8 жыл бұрын
I got a few athlon 64 single and dual core 939 systems still running. They are still great chips.
@markrodin1982
6 жыл бұрын
natr0n Yes I have a 3400+
@pavelvrasskii1359
8 жыл бұрын
Great job! Thank for video!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Павел Врасский Cheers!
@jangelelcangry
8 жыл бұрын
Athlon 64: the closest that AMD was to dominate Intel. There will be blood, and a lot of BSODs. Will Phil use socket 754 or skip to 939? Find out on the next exciting episode of Dra-.. PhilsComputerLab.
@VarietyGamerChannel
8 жыл бұрын
+jangelelcangry AMD absolutely demolished Intel's P3 with its K7 T-Bird processors back in 1999-2000. They were much cheaper and outperformed intel chips per clock. Intel didn't claw back the tech lead until its core architecture came along in 2006. P4 was a brute force disaster. Glad to hear that AMD is going back to its performance per clock roots with the upcoming Zen architecture.
@jangelelcangry
8 жыл бұрын
VarietyGamer I knew that P4 was a "brute force disaster" like you said but didn't knew that k7 was better than piii, I feel stupid now. BTW. I hope those those benchmarks of zen vs i7 CPUs are 8 cores instead of like 16 cores and are real leaked benchmarks.
@soylentgreenb
8 жыл бұрын
I vaguely remember the athlon being generally faster clock for clock with the exception of SSE enabled applications, which were more numerous than the applications that used AMDs equivalent (3DNOW or whatever it was called). AMD got SSE later with the athlon XP.
@rehsab01
7 жыл бұрын
Incorrect, Intel did claw back the lead with Northwood (which this video illustrates). The first Pentium4s based on Willamette were disappointing (can even lose to older Pentium IIIs). And then Intel faltered again with Prescott.
@Serdaco
8 жыл бұрын
Crikey what was that !!!! Looking forward to the next episode !!:-) Great video again!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+electrotinkerer Hehe, good to hear :)
@w00tDr
8 жыл бұрын
I really like this series. A fun trip down memory lane and up processor boulevard.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+w00tDr Thank you!
@TheVanillatech
8 жыл бұрын
Kinda surprising that the Barton didn't at least equal the 3.0Ghz P4, especially in games if even if not in synthetics. The big boy Prescot 775 CPU's with their extra cache and 3.6Ghz+ clocks would do even more damage and probably be bottlenecked by that 6800GT. I know that with an e2180 with a slight 2.2Ghz OC, I hit well over 12,000 on 3DMark 2003 (which is about the limit of the 6800GT). But then, of course, you would have to throw Athlon 64's into the mix. And we ALL know what happens there! XD
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+TheVanillatech With the graphics card, I could go up to a 6800 Ultra, but not sure if that's even worth it. There is a 7800 GS but I also don't know if it's that much faster. I have faster ATI cards, but in OpenGL games it's slower.
@TheVanillatech
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab Yup, those damned ATI OpenGL drivers from the early 2000's... I think the 7800GS is a fair bit faster than the 6800 Ultra, but I could be wrong. Either way people had already started to upgrade to C2D, Athlon 64's by the time the 7***GTX series were commonplace. I think putting a beast like that in a Barton / P4 478 machine would be total overkill ;)
@kossabarskiy676
5 жыл бұрын
Отличное видео, топовые железки того времени)
@stutz1847
7 жыл бұрын
haha, best ending! nice video phil :D
@JohnSmith-iu8cj
9 ай бұрын
7 years, time flies! I think about using a 6800gt in a Pentium III 1Ghz in a win 98 build. To be able to use Full HD in all games and show the full potential of the CPU. Overkill and cpu bottleneck, but I am curious. Would be also a great topic for a video 😉
@allesbelegt
8 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see an comparision between the 3.2Ghz clocked Northwood C and an Prescott with the same speed (and, if you have one, a gallatin too).
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Allesbelegt That's planned :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab But with the 3.4 GHz models :)
@howforless
8 жыл бұрын
lol Crikey what was that! nice video btw
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+PlasmaFart Thanks :D
@wenieo
8 жыл бұрын
you should try to unlock the 6800gt to a 6800 ultra. I actually had (still have actually) a 3.0ghz p4 and a 6800gt from PNY I built back in the day probably sometime around 2004 for Half-life 2 etc. Using RivaTuner you normally can unlock the extra pixel pipelines and shaders as well as overclock it. resulting in increased performance by a LOT. This era of computing is actually a super interesting one and I remember it fondly!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+wenieo Actually it just needs overclocking, it has the same amount of pipelines as the Ultra :)
@wenieo
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Hmm, just looked, I actually have a 6800 GS, unlocked it and flashed to an ultra over decade ago lol. The only way to tell was the heatsink art! still works great!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Yes that makes sense! A lot of cards were locked versions, I remember the X800XL.
@wenieo
8 жыл бұрын
the pci-e cards were the locked ones If memory serves me correctly. All agp cards I can find are the NV 40 chip (full ultra chip, I beleve this was due to the huge demand at the time for agp cards) I also own a pci-e 6800 gto and 6800 gt Couldnt seem to unlock the gto and as you said the gt just needs an overclock! Never got my hands on an x800xl. I upgraded to an x1900xt and then to an 8800gt later on!
@gameswindows
8 жыл бұрын
GeForce 6800 GT a Epic video card
@markrodin1982
6 жыл бұрын
gameswindows Yes it is still got mine in its box the XFX one.
@mateuszkwietowicz2470
8 жыл бұрын
Please also add the prices of the setups at the time they were competing with each other - back then the price difference between AMD and Intel was also a significant factor when deciding what build to get. Maybe we could add a price to performance ratio?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Mateusz Kwietowicz I kinda get the point, but everything I do is about building retro computers now, to play old games. I am thinking of mentioning current prices and availability, but it's tricky because it depends a lot on the country you're in. There are processors coming up that cost an obscene amount, and they still aren't super cheap...
@mateuszkwietowicz2470
8 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I also get your point - you could add the info, at the time, the setup cost xx$ and now you could get it on ebay for aroung $ - I got mine for XX$ and the price may very in your country / location. The additional info would also be very welcome, since I don't think anyone would complain about too much information. I know that top of the line cpus are still way pricier than the lower ones. For example, about 2-3 years ago I was upgrading an old work pc from a Sempron 1600+ and bought an XP 2800+ for like 3$ online, while a 3200+ was priced as much as 10 times higher. Also recently I needed a Socket 775 core 2 duo cpu and I bought a 6700 very cheaply, but the extreme edition 6800 was like 3 times the price, and half of the whole setup I was upgrading.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
^^All the top / FX / EE / Ultra still command a premium. I don't think that will ever change. Too few of them exchanged hands :) I will definitely mention pricing when I get to the more expensive stuff. But so far it was all quite reasonable. This is actually in stark contrast to older gear, like 386 or Pentium. That stuff is now seriously getting hard to find and costing quite a lot of money. That's why I started looking into newer gear and doing more modern videos, the parts are still very cheap :D I'll try to find some prices for the Athlon 64 video. I ran into a bit of an issue, it turns out that AMD had quite a few cores / steppings, so I had to get a few more chips to complete the picture :D
@xBruceLee88x
7 жыл бұрын
i wonder if the test was done with or without HT? I believe the 3200+ rating was based on the performance of what a non-HT p4 at 3.2 would be, since AMD started using this system long before HT.
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder which would be the strongest GPU an XP 3200 could take without severely bottlenecking it.
@jameslewis2635
8 жыл бұрын
I remember having an XP 3200+ based system. It always seemed a bit underpowered at stock but it overclocked quite well. Teaming it up with an ATI 1900 pro graphics card helped it run most games until the motherboard died. Since you do a lot of videos on machines for running old games, could you advise on what kind of spec to look for when looking to run Windows 98 and late Dos games? I am primarily looking towards titles like Tie Fighter which were always better with a proper general midi sound card and Mechwarrior 2 / 3 which needed the Glide API. I would not really be looking towards older Dos games because I generally find they work well with DOSBOX. Also it would be good to know how to tell what kind of video cards I could use alongside Voodoo 2 cards.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+James Lewis A Pentium III would be a good start.
@soylentgreenb
8 жыл бұрын
It was capacitor plague wasn't it? It was going around at the time in 2002-2005. I had a friend with an Epox motherboard that died due to cheap capacitors, and my mother's LCD was also afflicted by it. You could fix it, just open it up, find that bulging or leaking bastard and replace it.
@bassblaster505
8 жыл бұрын
That 6800GT is better than my craptop's integrated graphics ._.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+bassblaster505 Gaming Haha. I have a cheap notebook with AMD APU, I think it's an E-300 APU. I put XP on it and tested it in 3DMark, it was indeed quite slow. Beaten by 10+ year old graphics cards :(
@bassblaster505
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab RIP APU...E1-6010 Over here
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
That's a better APU than mine. I do want to make a video about using an APU notebook for a XP retro gamer at some point :)
@xan1242
8 жыл бұрын
On the ABIT NF7 all you needed were Silicon Image 3112 drivers to make it work properly. Usually slipstreamed installations of XP include it, but you could've also loaded it through the floppy as well. That IDE adapter will really hinder performance. Just saying :/
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+xan1242 It uses a SIL3112A? Interesting. I tried a slipstreamed disc with that storage driver pack. It picked up the drive, let you install Windows, but then restarted half-way through or something like that. I didn't have the time to figure it out, had to move on. The SATA to IDE adapter is actually quite decent, does 100 MB/s easy. I might check it out again with a 6800 Ultra if I get a chance...
@xan1242
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab Eh looking at 3112's specs now, it's 150MB/s only so eh, not much of a loss then anyway lol I had the motherboard way back, it did the job really well. XP 2500+ and a Sapphire Radeon x1650 Pro with 2GB RAM back in the day really did it for me. The only nuisance with it was the 3112 really, since that's literally a tacked on PCI SATA adapter on the motherboard.
@erminc1891
7 жыл бұрын
The Hammer architecture destroyed Pentium 4 back then, but the Barton 3200+ Core is tooooo optimistic with the PR rating. It struggled with the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz and in most of the Benchmarks Barton was beaten even by the 3.0 GHz model
@daehxxiD
7 жыл бұрын
Are the benchvids in the background actually captured from the runs you did for this vid? If so, VSYNC seemed enabled, which would make quite a difference in the results.
@philscomputerlab
7 жыл бұрын
They are just eye candy. Of course I disabled V-Sync for the benches :D
@martijnvanzanen4075
8 жыл бұрын
Back in the day, to myself. The amd xp/barton responed alot faster in apps then the p4. (I had a 2500 barton and a 3200 barton. Also with the nforce chipset. Ah well. Nice video. I'm still a supporter of amd though. Intel has to much power. Edit: A note though: It do was 2200 mhz vs a 3000/3200 mhz. Amd was faster a clock. I remember having my 3200 barton clocked to 2833 mhz. It was a monster then.
@Digi20
8 жыл бұрын
+Martijn van Zanen 2833 was really something.
@martijnvanzanen4075
8 жыл бұрын
Ye arround its max. The 2500 barton was arround 2600 or so. But I rly had it arround 2.8 ghz
@xidarian
8 жыл бұрын
the big difference was price, the 3200+ retailed at $464 at launch (May '03) while the 3.2ghz p4 launched at $637 in Jun 2003. Most 2500+s were overclockable to the 3200+ speed and where even cheaper. Back in the day AMD offered great value.
@GraveUypo
8 жыл бұрын
i had an overclocked cheap barton to 2.5ghz and it was killer already. i only really had to upgrade when intel's core2 cpus came around. those roflstomped everything that came before them. fun fact: i have that cpu running in one of the computers in my retro-lanroom. it's the weakest of the 6 computers i have set up (i can easily build 4 more with the parts i have, but that's pointless), but it hold itself very well for the uses we give it. and yes, it has an asus nforce2 motherboard. best mobo ever.
@Chriva
8 жыл бұрын
the k8 architecture is way and above much faster than p4 478. even most p4 s775 since they are more or less the latter in a newer package. remember those presshot days :D
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Christian Ivarsson It's all coming soon :D
@Trancelistic
6 жыл бұрын
Had a nForce with Barton 2500+ (3200+). Also had a nForce2 with the sempron clocked on 2.2 ghz. I noticed back then no difference really.
@RenoxMTA
8 жыл бұрын
This is the first time I see old motherboards have black PCB!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Renox CS:GO Interesting, haven't thought about that...
@KainiaKaria
8 жыл бұрын
Ooh Athlon 64, I have one of those.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Radical Edward also Kainia Karia (Michael Gardner) Yea, a really good chip!
@JohnSmith-iu8cj
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Phil, do you have any information about how you made that custom workbench you're using since this video? Would love to use one like this!
@philscomputerlab
3 жыл бұрын
I built it many years ago! Ordered it online as per specifications, basically built it in a CAD package :)
@djpirtu2
6 ай бұрын
...but when I overclock Athlon XP-M (Barton) to 2,4GHz the 3DMark01SE goes way over 19000 points. Geforce 6800GT used at default clocks. Mobo is Epox 8RDA3G nForce2 and Dual Channel DDR @200MHz.
@philscomputerlab
6 ай бұрын
Good!
@3dmaster205
3 жыл бұрын
Could you put in legends; I watched number in the 200s, and to the left the FPS counter was just under 60FPS; what do those numbers mean?
@Digi20
8 жыл бұрын
got myself a realatively cheap athlon xp-m when the a64 approached. that one ran fine without any problems and tollerable heat at real 2.7Ghz with fast ram and high fsb. quite a pentium 4 kicker. loved that machine and skipped the A64. sadly, AMD had nothing against intel later, and the core2duo found its way into my next pc.
@barbiroto
5 жыл бұрын
How smooth is the gameplay with P4 + d875pbz compared to athlon xp?
@Rickenbacker451
6 жыл бұрын
Please add the settings of the games if you do this again so that people can compare the results with their systems.
@philscomputerlab
6 жыл бұрын
Yea that's not what these video are for. They show the performance differences of the systems used and also focus on the CPU, rather than GPU performance.
@ratcatcher4804
8 жыл бұрын
How much was that new looking MSI 6800 GT? Probably not cheap. I have been looking for one for awhile. I have a couple BFG 6800 GT. I got two of them on eBay brand new for $30 but don't like the cooling. Don't be afraid to leave that D875 on all the time. They are indestructible. 24/7 a couple months at a time. Got three of them in 2010 from hypermicro when they were getting rid of their bulk for cheap and haven't had to touch the other two. They are expensive these days. A D865glc are the cheapest 478 boards around. They are indestructible also.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+RatCatcher Yea I wonder who actually built these boards. They don't look like your typical Asus or Gigabyte board. The MSI 6800 GT I got from eBay US for USD 35. The D875 is indeed a very nice board. In general I like working with the Pentium 4 AGP systems, they are very mature, stable and reliable.
@ratcatcher4804
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Foxconn built the Intel motherboards with quality parts. They did get some of the bad capacitors pre-2003. But they quickly revised the boards. I don't think your yellow jackets are part of the batch. I have the revised polymer caps.
@TheCureDMan
8 жыл бұрын
A bit off-topic, but... there are some bizarre motherboards from ASRock and Biostar that combine 478 socket with newer chipsets with PCI-Express & DDR2 & SATA2 support. Namely, ASRock P4i945GC and Biostar G31-M4. Of course, there would be serious CPU-bottleneck when using modern powerful graphics cards, but anyway it would be interesting to benchmark these boards with newer videocards (maybe modern mid-/low-end GPUs) and newer games.
@WaybackTECH
8 жыл бұрын
+TheCureDMan There is also a 775 to 478 adapter
@TheCureDMan
8 жыл бұрын
WaybackTECH I heard of this thing. Does it really work? Oh, and it will cause issues with cooler mounting.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+TheCureDMan Am awesome viewer sent me an Asrock board with a S939 socket with AGP AND PCIe slots. I do know of a 775 boards with AGP. At some point I'll just switch to PCIe.
@TheCureDMan
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab There are also ASRock boards with AGP+PCI-E combo and 775 socket, using VIA PT880 Pro/Ultra Chipset with C2D & Quad support. Yeah, ASRock liked those weird hybrids a while ago. )) I used to have DFI-branded 875 board with 775 socket, but it lacked CPU support above Pentium 4 Prescott, sadly. No Core2Duo and no even PentiumD.
@armorgeddon
8 жыл бұрын
+TheCureDMan Just last weekend I've got one of those ASRock boards with socket 775 and AGP+PCI-E. Problem is, that not every graphicscard is compatible with that board and the singe PCI-E-slot is a 4x only. I never liked those boards, wether when there were new nor now for retro.
@tubex0214
8 жыл бұрын
I would much rather watch this then intel i7 vs amd what ever the hell is eqvuvivalent
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Crazy Tubex Sure, send me some chips :D
@TheVanillatech
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab What do you need? Is there anything in particular you want to test or are missing?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
TheVanillatech I can't afford just buy an i7 or a high powered AMD, that's why I play around with these older parts, they are quite cheap to be had.
@mtunayucer
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab lol dude it is not entertaining to watch intel i7 destroy amd fx. older parts are MUCH enjoyable and FUN!
@altarofmelektaus0032
8 жыл бұрын
LOL yes that's me in a nutshell
@MatMabee
8 жыл бұрын
Can you compare the Pentium II 300PE to the AMD K6-2+ 500? These were released the nearly the same year, but the AMD K6 was vastly ahead of the Pentium II.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Mathew Mabee I will check these out for sure at some point!
@soylentgreenb
8 жыл бұрын
The major problem with the K6 was the L2 cache and poor FPU performance. It suffered greatly from having it's cache on the motherboard even at the 100 MHz FSB of super socket 7. The pentium pro solved this problem by sticking the L2 cache into the CPU package on a much faster bus, making a truly gargantuan chip package for a PGA. The pentium II solved it by having the CPU on a cartridge instead of a giant PGA. The slot A athlon solved the problem in the same way. As soon as L2 cache was integrated onto the CPU die itself, there was a gradual move back from slot form factor to socket form factor. The move from PGA to LGA solved for intel the problem of idiots bending the pins by shoving the problem off on motherboard manufacturers.
@prezeskodaty4637
Жыл бұрын
the motherboard via kt600 does not use the maximum performance of the athlon xp 3200+ processor because it has three rails instead of four for ddr1 ram, therefore via kt880 gigabyte 7vt880 pro will be better performance will be better
@ToTheGAMES
8 жыл бұрын
Do you have something like V-sync turned on in the beginning? I don't see any test scoring more than 60fps... (3Dmark)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+To The GAMES Good eye you have :) Yes, the video clips for the background were captured with v-sync on, so that they look nice and without tearing.
@ToTheGAMES
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Ah ok, makes sense. So the scores you show are different benchmark runs, right?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!
@plaguedoctor3782
8 жыл бұрын
Quick question regarding Power Supplies for Retro PCs, How much wattage would be needed for say a Voodoo 2 SLI system, since I'm planning to buy one soon. For ATX power supplies is there a way to convert them to AT connectors? Lastly, what case would be the best for every motherboard size? I know this isn't relevant to the video, but I find it the easiest way to get hold of some answers, since I find power supplies the scariest part of any PC build, especially with Retro parts.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Plague Doctor AT you're talking 386 and 486. I have a video on these topics, building them, but also reviewing an AT to ATX adapter. As for PSU, older PSUs are stronger on the 5V rail, newer ones stronger on the 12V rail. So it depends on what you're building. This is really only an issue with high powered Athlon XP machines. For these, even a modern 600W PSU doesn't cut it anymore, because it's too weak on the 5V rail. I use FSP and now the Corsair PSU with all my builds. I do not recommend using older PSUs, I just don't trust them.
@plaguedoctor3782
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab I do have a Corsair CX 600W floating around, but from what I've gathered any Power supply with an 80+ rating doesn't have a strong 5v rail. Is this the case? Thanks for your time. ***** I shouldn't have a problem finding an ATX board, the only challenge is that they're quite uncommon, however there is a slot 1 Compaq motherboard 400BX chipset on Ebay with 3 PCI slots 2 ISA and 1 AGP slot I believe that will suffice, unless they have some special 20 pin connector that the Dell motherboards do.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Plague Doctor None of the modern PSUs have a strong 5V rail anymore. 15 or 20 is what you usually get. Whereas older models had 35 or even 40.
@plaguedoctor3782
8 жыл бұрын
***** www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compaq-164483-001-Deskpro-EP-Slot-1-Motherboard-BX-/231737203620?hash=item35f49d1ba4:g:Dg8AAOSwZ8ZW2IDS This is the motherboard I'm planning to get and from the looks of things, it looks like an ATX motherboard. For now, acquiring the Voodoos are a top priority, due to them being sought after.
@plaguedoctor3782
8 жыл бұрын
***** Might do so if I struggle getting a good Slot 1 Motherboard. I've brought a Voodoo 2 now. I do have a shitty Pc from 2001 with some IDE leads and DVD/CD/Floppy drive, however upon closer inspection the Floppy drive lead is twisted in the middle six pins, would it make it compatible for the V2s in SLI? I've heard the V2s SLI cable is the same as a floppy disks. The Power Supply is an FSP, but it's been 10 years, might as well get a new one to prevent it taking the parts out with it.
@knightsun2920
7 жыл бұрын
Can you try this with a Radeon hd 3850 or hd 4650?
@ramdrivesys1869
7 жыл бұрын
The problem with Athlon64 was AFAIK that the early motherboards were unstable AF.
@philscomputerlab
7 жыл бұрын
Not my experience at all.
@ramdrivesys1869
7 жыл бұрын
It might have been a batch of bad motherboards. I have to admit it is quite a beefy chip. I actually want the AMD to strike with the Zen again, I want to build my first AMD system. The reason why I do not like many comments on this video is that many people are convinced the Pentium 4 was just a complete piece of shit that got beaten by a cheap Athlon XP and have not even watched the video because "they know the Athlon XP will wipe the floor with the Pentium 4" even through your tests show the opposite. Attitudes like that are one reason what made me choose a Pentium 4 at that time (and similiarly I despise Intel fanboys today who claim AMD will never beat Intel again etc.). Also, a lot of people seem to think only Pentium 4s ever generated any heat, while I guess the Athlon XP run on fairy magic and generated no heat, even through the reason for their lower clock speed was that they would not handle the heat at those Ghz. A lot of people seem to compare their lovingly build custom Athlon with some brand name supermarket Pentium 4 Dell, which is not a fair comparision at all. Anecdotal evidence can be useful sometimes, but is often worthless, all the Athlon XPs I ever used were total shit, but that is because they were computers given by a goverment program to an institution with antivirus software not updated in several years.
@lenamatoi
7 жыл бұрын
How can we do a bench test like the video? Can you make a video of how to do it?
@philscomputerlab
7 жыл бұрын
I'll be switching over to a different one. One you can just buy from a shop :)
@luckybob77
8 жыл бұрын
now that I've had some time for everything to soak in, I've realized there is one factor not considered. overclocking. I dare say this was the golden age of overclocking, when aftermarket companies finally took notice and catered to the market? late P4's were relatively horrible at overclocking. Where AMD silicone did far better by comparison.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Bradley Nuckols Yea my videos are really about building a retro PC "now". Prices, value, overclocking are not that interesting to me. If one of these machines is too slow: Just go for an Athlon 64 or Core 2 Duo :)
@luckybob77
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab agreed, but it's still worth a mention, imho.
@AshTechCorner
8 жыл бұрын
Nice a Athlon 64 approaches wonder which chip you have ...I have the Athlon 64 4000+ which I think is the fastest single core Athlon 64 processor
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Ashley 98 I think I'm going to follow the timeline from back in the day.
@AshTechCorner
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab could I ask what is the recommend wattage psu for the 6800 Gt as my fx 5200 ultra needs replacing or could you recommend any good x8 agp card that are good but not too pricy any help is much appreciated :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Around 400W should do the job. The 6800 GT is a great card, but might not be the cheapest. Check out ATI as well, the X800 series for example. The 6600 GT is nice, but it uses an AGP bridge, which can cause issues...
@AshTechCorner
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab ah thanks I have a 300w in there currently I can throw a 500w psu that I have ...the x850 pe I do have but its PCI :( such a good card but very noisy at startup sounds like a jet taking off also have a 7600 gs agp but it has artifacts not bad to say I payed £2 for both of them also just wanted to say check out any local recycle shops near you if you have any you never know what you may find in the electrical section :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I live in the outback, no recycling companies near me I'm afraid. Everything I have had to be shipped :(
@FaSMaN
8 жыл бұрын
hmm will the next part be the LGA 775 Pentium 4 vs single core Athlon socket 939 ?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+HPZeta I'm following the release schedule from 2003 / 2004. This series could take a while to unfold as I have to get new parts, do research, that sort of thing.
@FaSMaN
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab I can't wait ^.^ These are really entertaining :) PS let me know of you need any parts, it might take a bit long to get to you, but I am more than happy to help out where I can
@rakerholm
Жыл бұрын
I`m sorry I didnt get it. But what did you say you did to prevent the AMD from crashing in 3Dmark? I actually have that problem and cant figure out why. I have a Thunderbird 1333mhz Socket 462 on a Abit NF7-2G with 768MB DDR266 and a Geforce FX5600 Ultra. OS is 2000, XP (and Slackware 12.2), and 3DMark crashes on both versions of windows
@philscomputerlab
Жыл бұрын
I used an older driver! Also it doesn't happen on an Intel system AFAIK.
@rakerholm
Жыл бұрын
@@philscomputerlab I heard it now. You used a older video driver? The way my computer crashes, is btw that it all of a sudden reboots. And it seems to always be at the same place in the benchmark. On whatever happens after the high resolution test in the first game is finished. But today I`ve actually ordered a XP3200+ with 400 FSB and 2GB of Corsair XMS 400mhz. I just fired up my computer again a few weeks ago. After it being in storage for many years. I wish to make my motherboard "as good as possible". And the T-Bird will get in the first mb I used it in. A Abit KT7A that I bought a few years before the NF7.
@philscomputerlab
Жыл бұрын
@@rakerholm Yes I used an older driver!
@TheExaminedLifeofGaming
8 жыл бұрын
That MSI card is hawt with a capital HAWT.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+The Examined Life (of Gaming) Haha, it was the cheapest / easiest available when I looked on eBay recently.
@mart223421
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab It's a shame AMD couldn't keep up with the clock speed of the pentium 4 as clearly if the xp3200+ was actually running at 3.2GHZ (not 2.2GHZ) it would most likely smoke the pentium 4. Even if it was running at 2.5GHZ it might make it equal? I think for AMD even to come close to the performance of intel at 3.2GHZ with a architecture running at a 1000MHZ slower clockspeed is a clear win for me. What are your thoughts Phil?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+mam moth (Mammoth) I see the Athlon 64 as continuation :) If you want an awesome AGP system, I'd go with that.
@mart223421
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Yes I suppose so! But I did like the Athlon xp series. Any idea when your Athlon 64 video is coming out? Also have you thought about reviewing a slot A Athlon against a slot 1 pentium 3?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I'm waiting for a few processors to arrive. Turns out there are quite a few revisions with differences regarding the on-chip memory controller. So that's something I want to look at properly. Tight memory timings makes a huge difference with the Athlon 64.
@ThunderKat
3 жыл бұрын
Benchmarks lock at 60fps, that ain't good... I use to run those for fun, still do and sure you can unlock the frames.
@mart223421
7 жыл бұрын
Phil please help me! I'm in the process of building my retro Athlon xp 3200+ pc and I'm having trouble getting the right power supply. I have a GA-7N400 PRO 2 motherboard. What power supply would be sufficient? I did have a PC CHIPS motherboard model M848ALU and couldn't get a picture on the monitor which I'm guessing from watching your videos its down to the power supply not being compatible. Would most modern power supplies be compatible with the Nforce 2 boards? What power supply would you recommend? I'm having trouble finding the Macron MPT-401, What other models could I use? Any help much appreciated!
@philscomputerlab
7 жыл бұрын
Your board has the 12 V auxiliary plug, so a modern PSU should work fine.
@mart223421
7 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab Thanks for your reply. Do you think the reason I didn't get a picture was due to my power supply not having enough amps on the +5v rail? Sorry for all the questions but will I need at least 35amps on the +12v rail, or will any modern supply be okay? Thanks!
@philscomputerlab
7 жыл бұрын
I have no idea. And there are no guarantees that another PSU is going to help. Any decent modern PSU will do.
@mart223421
7 жыл бұрын
Okay I'll try with this new motherboard and see what happens. I've got two graphics cards a HD 3450 and a HD 4650 (both AGP) I hope the cards aren't too modern for the system?
@Doom2pro
8 жыл бұрын
I made a retro build with 3200+ Barton NF7 board but I used a GeForce 7800GS... Pretty much the fastest AGP card.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Doom2pro I'd love to have a 7800 GS!
@Doom2pro
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab I got mine on eBay a few years ago... Looking now it looks like a wasteland! Nothing. Hmm..
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
There is one seller in the US selling 10 for around $600 LOL
@Doom2pro
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab I see one in UK for $72.67 USD... BFG NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS OC 256MB GDDR3 AGP GAMING Graphics Card FULLY TESTED A bit steep but better than $600!
@Doom2pro
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab And an off brand for $58.12 - XFX GeForce 7800GS 256MB AGP Graphics Card PV-T70K-UAD7 Again from UK.
@drdeconstruct9341
8 жыл бұрын
Where do you recommend looking for high 5v ATX PSU? Im looking for one for my dual MP 1900+ and HD 3850 AGP build.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+dr deconstruct Dual CPUs? Wow, I have no idea about finding such a strong PSU. Personally I would move on to Athlon 64 / FX / Opteron but that's just me.
@drdeconstruct9341
8 жыл бұрын
Im thinking about switching from the 5v-based Tyan S2460 to 12v-based S2462 with onboard DC/DC converters for the 3.3/5v PCI. if you ever run into any 35a+ 5v PSUs do let me know though :D
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
There was someone on VOGONS forums, he recently got a 60A! 5V rail PSU. I'll see if I can find the post.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
dr deconstruct There you go! 70A! monster: www.ebay.com/itm/PC-POWER-COOLING-600-TURBO-COOL-100-240V-3-3-5-12V-500W-POWER-SUPPLY-/181961643306?nma=true&si=iETTy14RklLfQfl2IntmTw2jns4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
@drdeconstruct9341
8 жыл бұрын
wow thanks :D
@xxtovarichxx
8 жыл бұрын
Oh man, Venice chip incoming.
@talvisota327
5 жыл бұрын
i have exactly the same gigabyte board in my athlon xp system... but i might replace it with an asus A7N8X-E Deluxe soon
@Synthematix
4 жыл бұрын
Wow didnt know the athlon xp 3200+ supported dual channel ram? my 754 athlon64 3700+ is single channel. i do know for a fact the DFI Lanparty Pro875B was the best skt 478 motherboard made. and arctic MX4 is the best thermal paste ever made even now it outperforms thermal grizzly.
@talvisota327
4 жыл бұрын
with nforce2, dual channel ram was possible... awesome chipset back then
@Synthematix
4 жыл бұрын
@@talvisota327 Wonder why they dropped DC support on 754?
@talvisota327
4 жыл бұрын
@@Synthematix as far as i know socket 754 was the socket for the low end and mainstream sector while socket 939 was for the performance / high end sector. they existed side by side. so as a high end platform, socket 939 has dual channel while 754 doesnt
@user-vz4bo1en8x
6 жыл бұрын
Next time try: Athlon XP 2400+ vs P4 2400+ both with VIA chipsets.
@retrocoisas
8 жыл бұрын
When is the prequel airing? (AMD K6 vs Intel Pentium)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Ricardo Graça Good question. Definitely will do something about that.
@Digi20
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab k6-2/3 vs. pentium II would be quite interesting, too. the AMD chips could kick ass when 3d now was supported and ran quite nice in applications. but without good software support, performance was not nearly as good. a 350mhz k6-2 was way cheaper than a 266mhz pentium II though, and could sometimes as least keep up.
@retrocoisas
8 жыл бұрын
Well, you could actually go all the way back to AMD 8086 vs Intel 8086 but I think there isn't much (if any) difference between the two implementations (not counting clock speed differences) until you get to the Pentium/K5 era.
@blakedmc1989RaveHD
8 жыл бұрын
i recognized dat blurry Athlon 64 anywhere! i have a couple of 'em! only one of my AMD Athlon 64 motherboards still works tho :( but 1 is better than none! :) i planned on gettin' AMD Phenom X4!i wonder how good of support AMD Phenom works on AM2 sockets or do i need 2 get a Phenom X3?
@blakedmc1989RaveHD
8 жыл бұрын
***** o ok thanks! i am gunna get me a AMD Phenom X4 now as a plan turned to a green light :D
@martijnvanzanen4075
8 жыл бұрын
+blakedmc1989RaveHD Be sure you get a xx50 version. Like a 9650 instead of a 9600. quad or tripple core. The xx00 series got a tiny bug ( makes a bsod in some calculations)
@blakedmc1989RaveHD
8 жыл бұрын
Martijn van Zanen oh ok! i was thinkin' of goin' 4 a 3.0 GHz AMD Phenom X4 4 my AM2 socket but it's a Gateway i'm referbishin' with a AM2 MOBO replacement
@martijnvanzanen4075
8 жыл бұрын
+blakedmc1989RaveHD Nice mate. I think i still got an AM2 tripple phenom. U can have it if you want. I believe its a x8450. 3x 2100 mhz though.
@blakedmc1989RaveHD
8 жыл бұрын
Martijn van Zanen i might have 2 update tha bios when i get tha mobo and AMD Phenom X4 3.0GHz
@MisterMuffin_
8 жыл бұрын
What motherboard do you use in your main rig? Or "Muddaboard" :3
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+MrMuffinGame Muddaboard :D An Asus S1150 with i7 3770.
@MisterMuffin_
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Nice! Could you by chance make a video on your main build? It'd be great to see where you make these great videos :D
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Hmm. It's really nothing special. The graphics card is quite old, a GTX 660. I'm waiting for the new graphics cards to come out this year.
@MisterMuffin_
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab No worries! :D looking forward to the next video! :D
@D3monL3A1
8 жыл бұрын
and suddenly in this year 2016 the Blue lake in the skyes was disturebed by an invisible masssive red force they say they call it the Zen
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Édouard James Franks Ha! Well I'm excited for Zen. An affordable 8 core with lots of grunt would help with my video editing.
@D3monL3A1
8 жыл бұрын
Yeah i think intel misses AMD its preety booring being on the top for so long
@mikehays0070
8 жыл бұрын
Have you tested which is the fastest AGP card?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Michael Hays I think the fastest "normal" cards are the 6800 Ultra and X850 XT PE. Later a few "AGP bridge" cards got released like the 7800 GS and ATI had a few very fast ones like the X1950 Pro and 3850 I believe. The ATI cards struggle a bit with OpenGL games. What do you think?
@mikehays0070
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Good point, the 6800 and X850 are the last true AGP cards, and the later series were PCI-E versions adapted for AGP.
@armorgeddon
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Yes, AFAIK the HD 3850 is the fastest available for AGP. What about compatibility though, does one of you know if a chip that "new" lacks any features that let's say a Radeon 9800 had?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Wow, tough one. I wouldn't think so to be honest, but you never know with computers :D
@simant5361
6 жыл бұрын
With the XP 3200+, the 6800GT seems to be about 8fps better in DOOM 3
@luckybob77
8 жыл бұрын
wait, don't buy a 875 because a 865 is cheaper? What kind of casual do you take us for?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Bradley Nuckols Cheaper, easier to find and not much slower :) But I get what you're saying, go for the 875 if one is available.
@jaserpent
7 жыл бұрын
Intel won, but AMD Athlon XP 3200+ clocked at 2,2 GHz...
@Space_Reptile
8 жыл бұрын
Just putting out there that the 3200 is not a "as good as a 3200hz intel" number ,it refers to the previous gen of amd cpu's (also the price/performance is much better than intel whit the Athlon xp , lower tdp and open multiplier on cheaper boards and chips compared to intel ) try pitting a 2.2ghz p4 against a 2.2 Athlon (apples to apples)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Justagermannerd Interesting, do you have a source for the first point? AMD wasn't cheaper, the 3200+ actually cost more than the P4 3.0, which was still faster. Are you sure about an unlocked multiplier? I couldn't see that option on the 3200+. Why would I downclock the P4 for benchmarking, that's just silly. It's well known that you cannot compare CPUs by clock speed.
@Space_Reptile
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab I'm suprised to get a reply , well sources I cannot give as of right now , that is just how I learned it (a64x2 4400+ = axp @ 4.4 ) it was a in-house comparison , and yes most athlons are unlocked and if you have to use the pencil to achieve that , Intel was really uptight whit freeing the multiplier, also the 3200 is expensive maybe because it was the top of the line , 2600 and 1900 are much more common over here (and I'm talking about price at launch and the year after , amd has a much more solid value on the used market) also the last one was more a shits an giggles suggestion since you see that amd has a much higher performance per clock and watt whit the xp/64 , the p4's architecture was a catastrophe compared to the p3 and c2d (wich btw is a beefed up p3, Intel ditched the p4 architecture completely for that)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I think I head about this pencil method, I was hoping for a unlocked XP like the Athlon 64 FX range. Yea Pentium III was really good. Thing is, the P4 gets a lot of hate, but working with it now I only have good things to say. This might change once I get to the later models though, I think Athlon 64 is the way to go during that period.
@Space_Reptile
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab oh yea certainly , but I just wanna point out some benchmarks on passmarks site , you can give it a Google , you see how bad the p4 is even when up at 4ghz , heck even p3's beat same clocked p4 models , I like em all but the p4 is kinda the redheaded stepchild of the bunch
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I see the best in all :D
@ElRichixUwU
7 жыл бұрын
no cs go??? no dota 2? no gta 4? :c
@kaiser76
8 жыл бұрын
AMD FX too
@xaer0knight
8 жыл бұрын
Oh i hope that Macron PSU label isn't lying :(
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Jason Hicks (TyrForFreedom) Yea good point. Everything worked fine though :D
@xaer0knight
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab I can't believe for many years.. I neglected my PSUs. Thank god for channels like Cube Computer so I could learn pretty much everything about them! These cheap PSU may say 600.. more like 250Watts
@altarofmelektaus0032
8 жыл бұрын
I have some 450 watt power supply lying around that weighs less than a single hard drive. No joke. Maybe one of these days I should put it in a computer that I really hate. That would be a fun firework show.
@xaer0knight
8 жыл бұрын
MechaniKey LOL just looked at his old EX Media PSU i have (250W .. more like 160W from a Athlon XP 2200+ 1.6GHz) My new ZTE smartphone is heaver with a case on it, a 25pk of DVD+R, and i bet a carton of cigarettes is heavier! Swift breeze and there it goes.
@altarofmelektaus0032
8 жыл бұрын
Jason Hicks It's a Chiefmax power supply. I don't even know what the capacitor brand is, Chang? Probably worse than Teapo or Crapxon.
@Chriva
8 жыл бұрын
need some hardware? have a bunch of s775 p4s, pentium D. s939 amd of various models and more. :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Christian Ivarsson That would be awesome! I'll try contacting you through the Google method when I get home :)
@Chriva
8 жыл бұрын
I never heard from you, Phil? I still have a buttload of stuff that is of no use to me :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
Christian Ivarsson Odd, I thought I did. Had another look, I can't find a way to send you a message. Bloody Google...
@Chriva
8 жыл бұрын
Could be my account settings. Will try and take a look on the later today :)
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
You can try sending me a message, maybe that works.
@nathanawesome10
8 жыл бұрын
Leg reveal at 5k
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Coolieli Haha
@aharr3437
8 жыл бұрын
+Coolieli Singular unit of one weed reveal at .01K subs
@nicacioedu
5 жыл бұрын
These 3DMark 2001SE results are not impressive at all: I've got 47,115 3D marks with the integrated graphics of my Core i7-8700K. And of course I'm just kidding you, guys - except for the 3D marks I've got ;-)
@GlaciatorGaming
8 жыл бұрын
939!
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Glacy Beast! But I'll do 754 first :)
@GlaciatorGaming
8 жыл бұрын
PhilsComputerLab Cool! So only single core CPUs right now.
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
+Glacy Yea, I will follow the release schedule more or less from back in the day :)
@GlaciatorGaming
8 жыл бұрын
+PhilsComputerLab Also, for the P4s, why did you leave out Willamette and socket 423?
@philscomputerlab
8 жыл бұрын
I had to start somewhere and chose to start around the XP 3200+. The plan is to cover other chips in other series.
@wanautentico
7 жыл бұрын
Todos los Bench siempre a favor de Intel hasta que se descubre la mentira. En el Juego Doom 3 está capado a 60 frames. Nunca podrá dar un P4 y una 6800 GT 68 fps.... Cuentales otro cuento que sea mas creible...
@ramdrivesys1869
7 жыл бұрын
This is exactly the results I remember from PC magazines of that era. Also I am a bit pissed off about how AMD fanboys will insist the XP was faster despite all evidence. Yes, the Athlon XP architecture was faster per clock speed - does not matter when it COULD NOT REACH that clock speed! The end user did not care about clock efficiency, if Intel delivered performance by clocking the chip high, it would still deliver more FPS in games, regardless of "clock efficiency", also, the Athlon XPs actually generated a lot of heat just like the P4 too. The only claim that I might accept is the price-performance ratio of Athlon XP, but even that is nowhere as big as in hazy memories of AMD fanboys. The P4 Northwood was an expensive chip and a lot of people with the AMD chip seem to console themselves that since it was too expensive, it was shit anyways. It might have been too pricy, it might have had a low Ghz to performance ratio - but it HAD THE PERFORMANCE. The notion that P4 was all Ghz and no performance is a flat out LIE at least in regard to the Northwood chips. Prescott and Willametes are a different matter, but Northwood is IMHO one of the better chips Intel ever made. It was Netburst done right. An Athlon XP running at actual 3.2 Ghz would not be more powerful than a P4 because it would go up in flames.
@mikehays0070
8 жыл бұрын
Have you tested which is the fastest AGP card?
@lordmmx1303
8 жыл бұрын
+Michael Hays i have seen some crazy pieces , like 9400 PCI (not PCIE) or 8600 PCI ...
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