I regret that my report on the etymology of Maria was somewhat incomplete. BehindTheName.com has a good treatment of the various possibilities: www.behindthename.com/name/mary The Wiktionary entry lists the likelihood that Miryam comes from Aramaci Maryam, which is why I didn't mention Miryam, but I probably should have; I was being glib: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mary#Etymology 🦂 Sign up for my Latin Pronunciation & Conversation series on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/54058196 📚 Luke Ranieri Audiobooks: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com 🦂 Support my work on Patreon: www.patreon.com/LukeRanieri
@kneelingcatholic
3 жыл бұрын
Dominus tecum, Luke!
@commentfreely5443
3 жыл бұрын
a e i o u h atque not ac deinde not dein so chuck a h in front of your vowels for fun
@mimung3185
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, in southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland "Servus" is a used greeting. Was this word a greeting in roman times?
@petermsiegel573
3 жыл бұрын
Wiktionary is a fantastic resource, as you well know, except when it isn't. (LOL). Thanks for all your amazing content.
@b43xoit
3 жыл бұрын
"However it was most likely originally an Egyptian name, perhaps derived in part from mry 'beloved' or mr 'love'." Farsi has "mehr", 'love'. (sorry that's in transliteration; I don't know Arabic letters.)
@albertito77
3 жыл бұрын
We see Mary as the second Eve (first Eve brought death, second Eve brings life). So that the most common prayer to her should start with a greeting cognate with the Hebrew word for Eve is fitting indeed
@juanausensi499
3 жыл бұрын
It may be fitting, but the question is if that was intentional
@arrus
3 жыл бұрын
@@juanausensi499 given St. Jermone's eriudition (assuming that the source is most certainly the Vulgate) I'd conjecture that it was - that was the dominant Latin consensus on Marian theology since Tertullian [210 AD] and arguably was the Apostolic consensus too (cf. St. Irenaeus)
@alwantamalus3709
2 жыл бұрын
Sorry but it's total rubbish based on ignorance.
@martiejude625
2 жыл бұрын
@@alwantamalus3709 what proof do you have of your assertion?!
@Notaffiliated64
2 жыл бұрын
Yes
@vacri54
3 жыл бұрын
Luke: casually switches between the Greek and Latin pronunciations of 'philosophy'. Me: can't even replicate them in my head.
@fallinginthed33p
3 жыл бұрын
That stress accent in Greek is easier if you know a tonal language like various Chinese dialects or Thai.
@beheroot
Жыл бұрын
and then comes polish, with hard Z inside - filoZofia :D
@daciaromana2396
3 жыл бұрын
So “ave” from ave maria actually comes from Phoenician by way of the Carthaginians and it’s related to the Hebrew word “hawwa”. Wow, what a journey. This is why I love this channel. Can’t wait to torment my friends with this one.
@fallinginthed33p
3 жыл бұрын
Hawa in Arabic too.
@daciaromana2396
3 жыл бұрын
@@fallinginthed33p Naturally. Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic languages. Thanks
@dust001
3 жыл бұрын
@@fallinginthed33p Was just going to make this remark as well, in standard Arabic it's Hawwā, but in my Egyptian dialect it's pronounced the same as the biblical Hebrew Hawah.
@fallinginthed33p
3 жыл бұрын
@@dust001 interesting. With a short final a and a single w? Is there a soft pronounced h at the end too?
@VeronicaBrandt
3 жыл бұрын
Any comment on the in mulieribus vs inter mulieres ? The prayer has the former but the vulgate the latter.
@cherubin7th
3 жыл бұрын
Next week: Is English bad French?
@putinpunhere
3 жыл бұрын
Yes! Yeeeeeesss!
@ironinquisitor3656
3 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha!
@mauropodda3565
Жыл бұрын
No, it's bad german.. 😅😅😅
@MrShadowThief
Жыл бұрын
Yes.
@galegocossia5506
Жыл бұрын
Sure!
@pablodelrio2367
3 жыл бұрын
Mater dolorosa, ora pro nobis!
@fabiolimadasilva3398
3 жыл бұрын
"Ave Maria, cheia de graça, o Senhor é convosco. Bendita sois vós entre as mulheres. Bendito é o fruto do vosso ventre, Jesus. Santa Maria, mãe de Deus, rogai por nós pecadores. Agora e na hora de nossa morte. Amém".
@guillermorivas7819
3 жыл бұрын
Stabat mater dolorosa, juxta crucem lacrimosa. Estaba la madre dolorosa, junto a la cruz llorosa.
@fabiolimadasilva3398
3 жыл бұрын
@@guillermorivas7819 Eu lembro sempre de minha finada mãe quando rezo a Ave Maria.
@Mihail91N8
3 жыл бұрын
AMEN
@Kitiwake
3 жыл бұрын
Is é do mhaidin Mhuire, Atá lán de ghrásta, atá an Tiarna leat.
@mjbalbo
3 жыл бұрын
Well if native speakers themselves said it that way, then it's not really a "mistake", is it? It's just how a (then) living language evolved.
@geoffreylacroix2373
3 жыл бұрын
In fact it's just a clickbait title.
@joligej
3 жыл бұрын
He concluded the video stating that exact same thing... Watch until the end before you judge
@geoffreylacroix2373
3 жыл бұрын
@@joligej Yes... In the end of the video... So that's a clickbait title.
@nathanielkennedy8358
3 жыл бұрын
@@geoffreylacroix2373 But the title is a question.
@safetysizzerz3530
3 жыл бұрын
Yea there’s no confrontation at all, church pronunciation has just evolved differently from the way the Romana would have spoken it. So it would be wrong in the sense that the Latin language as a whole wouldn’t have been spoken that way. Church pronunciation is different now. But the mans gotta make money somehow. At least the clickbait isn’t sexual.
@Galenus1234
3 жыл бұрын
In fact, Punic "hawe!" (Live!) is short for "Live long and prosper!" 🖖
@TheBurningWarrior
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, as a Catholic, this gives me all the more appreciation for the verse from Ave Maris Stella: Sumens illud Ave Gabrielis ore, Funda nos in pace, Mutans Evæ nomen. Translated (poetically) as: Taking that Ave which from Gabriel came, peace confirm within us, changing Eva's name. There is actually an etymological connection linking these two words which the hymn linked symbolically (as Mary is the new Eve whose willing obedience, through her son, remedies the sin of her forerunner's disobedience in Eden.)
@DoctorDewgong
Жыл бұрын
wow. There is a lot of poetry packed into those lines
@ImotekhtheStormlord-tx2it
10 ай бұрын
imagine being catholic and acting like a smartass about latin
@ghlscitel6714
3 жыл бұрын
So the phrase "ave caesar, morituri te salutant" has probably a weak historical foundation? Surprise surprise. Why did I spoil my life with 5 years of latin at school.
@th60of
3 жыл бұрын
There is exactly one source in Latin, Suetonius, Divus Claudius 21, and it's not about a gladiator fight but a naumarchia, a staged sea battle. In some Renaissance editions, Claudius replies "Avete vos", "Hail to you too", but the better manuscripts have "Aut non", "Or maybe not", Claudius being the funny guy.
@Tubulus3546
3 жыл бұрын
@@th60of naumachia :)
@th60of
3 жыл бұрын
@@Tubulus3546 Oops, indeed!
@captainufo4587
3 жыл бұрын
@@th60of It was a single case, celebratory naumachia staged with convicted prisoners sentenced to death (combining the fights with public executions wasn't uncommon. You got several birds with one stone: the criminals dead, the bloodshed the public wanted, and you didn't waste much more valuable professional gladiators). The actual sentence was probably "ave imperator, morituri te salutant" rather than "ave, Caesar." Claudius replied "Aut non" (possibly out of common courtesy, possibly just a joke) and caused a major tantrums because the convicted interpreted it as an imperial pardon and refused to fight. It took a lot to convince them that there was no pardon and they still had to fight to death.
@lordsiomai
3 жыл бұрын
That feel when exploring why "Ave Maria" might be wrong Latin made you realize how deep it really is and how it actually relates so well with the story of Mary in the Bible
@VABJMJ
3 жыл бұрын
It is interesting that I have seen in ancient commentaries of the Bible people saying that Ave in Ave Maria also represented that Mary was an "inverted Eve" (inverted Eva, Ave, Eva). Both because of the origin of the word, the inverted function of Mary in Salvation history (the woman that brought the Savior, in contrast with the woman who brought Damnation) and because it providentially did become a mirrored word in Latin. I wouldn't call "Ave" bad Latin personally, because it has solidified itself over millenia (so I'd call it a development). Also there are commentaries on the whole Maryam name as well. One of my favorite ones is that Miryam would mean Bitter Sea in Hebrew, while Maryam would mean Lady Sea in Aramaic. And, although in no way intentional on the part of who named Mary, that would be perceived as a providential change that expresses how Mary, through her participation in the Lord's salvation, turned the bitter sea of sin into a lordly Sea. The fact that Mária means Seas in Latin seems to explain why, in conjunction with these other things, Mary has been so strongly associated with the Sea since ancient times (as the Star of the Sea, the Lady of the Sea, etc)
@M4th3u54ndr4d3
3 жыл бұрын
The"inverted Eva" does not make sense. The angel spoke tô Mary in aramaic, not latin.
@TheAtlarchy
3 жыл бұрын
That is a common church practice. It is called "teaching theology through every possible action perfirmed by The Church" Very common practice which lead to majority of the traditions within the church.
@TheAtlarchy
3 жыл бұрын
@@M4th3u54ndr4d3 It's not about what the angel said at all, but it is about what the church can teach through a chant/prayer.
@supertigerroadtrip5193
3 жыл бұрын
Mary is the new Eve, it's in many many hymns of the Orthodox Church.
@samcabrera2316
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAtlarchy it matters at some point. Mary was a Jewish Galilean woman of Nazareth, and their language is Aramaic not Latin. Not everything that the church teaches is correct. The Catholic church along with other Christian churches appropriated most of the Jewish traditions.
@Yamikaiba123
3 жыл бұрын
Dude, you owned that classical Hebrew pronunciation of חוה / HWE !
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! It's not a language I know at all; just reading the IPA
@Yamikaiba123
3 жыл бұрын
@@polyMATHY_Luke Haha, yeah. I'm studying Hebrew Cantillation, and one of the early things I made myself do was read a bunch of phonology articles theorizing about the original pronunciation of certain letters and vowel signs, and listen to recordings to figure out what the specific IPA symbols meant (anatomically speaking). By the way, would you know why the letter Y's name in English matches the Classical Era Hebrew letter Waw? Yet we don't pronounce Y like Waw anymore. This amazed me when I noticed it. Or is it a coincidence...
@12_xu
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know if they're related but in Southern Italy the word "auè" (pronounced like you did), also contracted as "uè" is used to salute or to call the attention from someone.
@Olly133mhz
3 жыл бұрын
I was thinking exactly the same thing 🤓 - in the north of Italy especially, ‘uè’ is prevalent, and I have often wondered if indeed it descended from ave
@aleee641
3 жыл бұрын
I think the accent should be inverted, since the E is closed, not open. Isn't it "ué"?
@12_xu
3 жыл бұрын
@@aleee641 You're right, googling it "uè" is the baby's wailing in Italian, whilst "ué" is the salute
@marce3893
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think so because that would imply the existence of this word escaping the sound change W > V and I can't think of another word that does that
@aleee641
3 жыл бұрын
@@marce3893 I'm not educated on this theme but in Italian the letter U does exist and it's separate from V, also at the beginning of words, such as "umile", "urgere", "umbro". Despite we're ruling out "ué" coming directly from "aue", we wouldn't contradict your point if we assumed an intermediate phase, in which the A were dropped. If at certain point the initial A had been almost silent, it'd have been no room for the change from U to V. You must have either a vowel after the inital U, or a group with a vowel after U and one of some precise sound before, for example vowel-consonant-U-vowel, but I'm not sure if this is totally correct. For example (distinguishing V and U through modern sounds) "lvna" wouldn't work: in fact we say "luna"; on the other hand "uero" wouldn't sound Italian either, as we say "vero". Although "aue" turning to "ué" bypassing the V change in unlikely, I don't see why "aue" couldn't have got his form before, like from "àuē" to an eventual "*auèe" and then "uée".
@Azoundo
7 ай бұрын
The connection between Have, Maria and bitter life is really beautiful. I’m just getting into classical Latin, and the historical context of what these words and names mean really create a sense of wonder for the ancient world.
@usayeed727
3 жыл бұрын
Glad I discovered you. Always staying tuned for more!
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! welcome
@rajasandiego9117
3 жыл бұрын
Informative! Thank you ❤️
@pietrufarrugia9617
3 жыл бұрын
The overlay of Mary and 'Life' makes beautiful poetic sense. Thanks for the video!
@gabrielsa9751
2 жыл бұрын
For coincidence, AVE is translated to Portuguese as Viva, the imperative form of viver, that means "live"
@Deerm3at
3 жыл бұрын
Have you ever been to a Traditional Latin Mass? It is so beautiful and inspiring!
@timurermolenko2013
3 жыл бұрын
Pope wants to get rid of it...
@johnemerson1363
2 жыл бұрын
@@timurermolenko2013 They were working on that in the mid 1960's. I was in the US Navy then and stationed in Sicily and served Latin masses when the local English speaking priest wasn't available and an Italian priest would fill in. The Mass of the Vernacular was soon instituted and thee was soon a real revolt. I sort of joined one of the groups because I considered myself a Roman Catholic. Then one could go to any nation in the world and in a Roman Catholic Church the Mass would be in Latin. I might not understand the Sermon but I could participate in the service. Today, I don;t know what the status is but it really opened a can of worms.
@timurermolenko2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnemerson1363 yes, they had so called Council of Vatican II in 60s, where they limited traditional mass and made it more "fun and appealing to a modern man". I'm no catholic, but I like when each church stays true to its tradition. And now they want to get rid of it all together.
@martiejude625
2 жыл бұрын
@@timurermolenko2013 like your comment. Just to let you know though that the liturgical changes were never fully accepted by lay or clergy. Some bishops too. Thousands of priests left in its aftermath, lay people too. The Modernist bishops, including the pope are working hard to protestantise The Church today. More are standing up and fighting back. Watch this space. Lol
@timurermolenko2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@martiejude625 yeah, I myself attended a traditional Mass. Before I didn't even know it exists. T h o ugh a recently, the Pope has taken further steps to get rid of it
@aa-zz6328
3 жыл бұрын
In Arabic, the word "تحية, ta7yah" means greetings, and comes from the root word for life (حية, H/7-y-h) in Arabic.
@MrAbood900
3 жыл бұрын
The 3 is usually a ع not a ح. Also the root is not حية but more likely أحيا or حيًا. I've never seen a feminine base form in my life. I won't say it's impossible because maybe there a few i don't know of but the root is almost always the singular male past form
@aa-zz6328
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrAbood900 it's "7" that represents the letter "ح", isn't it! I forgot what it was! I don't know, it sounded and looked like (حية) the minimum/default triconsonantal root that could be added on to create new words. If not, it would then be "حيي, H/7-y-y"? But it didn't seem right to me. I'm not that technical, I'm not well versed in language study, I just wanted to mention it as a "fun fact".
@goodday2760
3 жыл бұрын
@@aa-zz6328 If you search "matres lectiones", you'll find that Semitic languages are the source of the attitude that y and ou/w are 'semi-vowels', which people often have today. So that may be why H-y-y is an acceptable root, because the language probably treats it as a duplicated semivowel that just passes for a consonant. Some consonants of roots are extra-separated in Arabic (some plurals do not add a suffix but isolate the last two) while y-y and w-w are probably conjoined on the other hand. The way the feminine root just removes one y seems to support this, like it's been absorbed by the other y. But like you, I'm offering conjectures.
@eyeballpapercut4400
3 жыл бұрын
@@aa-zz6328 it actually would be "حيي", but surprise surprise you'd read it in noun form as حَيٌّ as in الحيّ القيّوم and in verb form as حَيَّ - يَحْيَى which comes from حَيِيَ but the second ي is combined to the second, giving it a tashdīd ّ Meanwhile, حَيَّةٌ means a snake. Keep it up there is more to learn about arabic word morphology.
@viictor1309
2 жыл бұрын
I thought the hebrew hawwa was connected to the arabic hawa meaning air
@yccmzimmy
3 жыл бұрын
what a wonderful management of accents and pronunciations you have... hats off to you, tanto di cappello
@vy1585
3 жыл бұрын
Just came from Pompeii, wish I watched this first so I could look for the stuff you mentioned.
@SuperTommox
3 жыл бұрын
Would you do more videos about the writing found in Pompeii and other sites? It's so fascinating reading words from common people of that time.
@stefanodadamo6809
3 жыл бұрын
Straordinario come sempre. Have magister Luke!
@xtusvincit5230
3 жыл бұрын
In Catholic theology since the early second century Irenaeus, Mary is associated with Eve, as in the New Eve or Second Eve. Is there any chance that the use of Ave Maria might have been a conscious choice at some point in order to drive home the Eve connection with Maria? Stranger things have happened!
@ludwigvanbeethoven8164
3 жыл бұрын
Im sure they knew that. For Jesus called himself the new Adam, or referred to it. And its also mentioned the association in Revelations
@xtusvincit5230
3 жыл бұрын
@@ludwigvanbeethoven8164 It was Paul in the Letter to the Romans who called Jesus the New Adam. But is there any evidence for the choice of Ave instead of Salve being based on Eve?
@IONATVS
3 жыл бұрын
@@xtusvincit5230 I don’t know of any evidence for that being the original intention from when the prayer was composed, but it has certainly been a common observation by theologians since then that addressing Mary with “Ave” ought to remind us that Mary is the new “Eva” who through her sinlessness and the parallels between her life and her son’s in at least a symbolic sense counteracts the original sin of “Eva”.
@ElizabethDMadison
3 жыл бұрын
@@IONATVS "Ave [Maria] gratia plena, Dominus tecum" is a translation of the Greek from St Luke's Gospel of how the Angel Gabriel greets Mary. In Spanish by the way, for those who think Salve is better, the prayer begins "Dios te salve Maria, llena eres de gracia, el Senor es contigo". So, literally, Spanish speakers translate Latin into Spanish by translating Ave to Salve. I really like Luke's explanation of why early Christians would have actually seen [h]ave as the fittingest translation. And definitely since theologically the obedience of Mary is seen as undoing the disobedience of Eve, it's exactly true that EVA/AVE has always been appreciated by Christians, even though it wasn't necessarily the reason for the word choice.
@dominiccasts
3 жыл бұрын
@@ElizabethDMadison And then you have the Hail Holy Queen, or "Salvē Regīna", but AFAIK that prayer is a later invention by the Roman church, rather than a translation from biblical Aramaic or Greek
@erhert
3 жыл бұрын
Sir, you are another level.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@MrCount84
3 жыл бұрын
I love this channel. It makes the nerd in me squeal with excitement. Gratias tibi est Magister Lucius
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Grātiās et tibī!
@clydecessna737
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for Aleph with Beth - fantastic.
@Nehmi
3 жыл бұрын
Wait. But the source of the Hail Mary is the passage in the Gospel of Luke where Gabriel greets Mary to tell her she will bear the son of God. Gabriel uses the greeting "Hail!" or "Rejoice!" in Koiné Greek, which is "chaire" or "χαιρε". Wouldn't this be properly translated as "Avē"?
@elenacurnis8858
3 жыл бұрын
I was just asking the same.
@TheLivingHeiromartyr
3 жыл бұрын
Well, in editions of the Vulgate that I can find, it’s translated ‘have’. So there could be all sorts of reasons for the shift from the Vulgate’s ‘have’ to the liturgical ‘ave’.
@craighughes536
3 жыл бұрын
Once again..giving us nuggets of knowledge..🤠🙏
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
And thanks for your support, Craig!
@rafaelalexie2417
3 жыл бұрын
This, like all of your videos, is pure gold!
@gianlucarenzi7706
3 жыл бұрын
8:48 prime minister Renzi. WTH! Absolutely fantastic dude! Non riesco a fermare le mie risate!!! Keep up the great work!
@albizabm
3 жыл бұрын
Difficile non notarlo😄(almeno per noi italiani)
@ane7164
3 жыл бұрын
Ave Maria in portuguese: Ave Maria cheia de graça O senhor é convosco Bendita sois vós entre as mulheres E bendito é o fruto do vosso ventre, Jesus. Santa Maria, Mãe de Deus Rogai por nós pecadores Agora e na hora da nossa morte. Amém! Abraços do Brasil! 🇧🇷
@VictorLepanto
3 жыл бұрын
it is interesting that the Biblical "Eve's" name is actually based on the Hebrew word for life. In the original Hebrew her name is Cheva (pronounce the C-H as in Chanukah or Bach) b/c she is the is the mother of "all the living."
@NK-vd8xi
3 жыл бұрын
The original Hebrew ch isn't the same as the ch in Bach. That is a more recent European and then Israeli innovation. Ch was originally like the Arabic equivalent, which is written in Maltese as Ħ. The original Hebrew vav was also a waw. So Cheva is actually Ħewa. Ħewa is more similar to HAVE /hawe/.
@VictorLepanto
3 жыл бұрын
@@NK-vd8xi The Hebrew primer I read said it was like Bach, that is a frequent analogy I've seen many times. As for the shift from waw to vav, if it is true that waw was the original pronunciation, it was a shift that occurred very early in Hebrew history. Certainly by the time of Jesus it had already occurred. it probably occurred sometime after the development of the Greek Septuagint scriptures had already begun. I understand that their are versions of the Septuagint which includes the name of King David spelled (in Greek letters) both Daoud & Dabid. Greeks did not have a letter w/ the vee sound. My guess is the beta was used to approximate the vee sound.
@NK-vd8xi
3 жыл бұрын
@@VictorLepanto yeah that's a Europeanism (for lack of a better term). Middle Eastern populations maintained the sound, as did Neo-Aramaic and Arabic. The sound you're describing is the same as khaf which wouldn't make sense to have as two separate letters. For vav/waw, there may have been dialects that were tending to /β/ in certain situations (as an allophone) but the sound was maintained by Middle Eastern Jews so it must have become a true "vav" a lot later. Most old Hebrew loans into other languages borrow it as a W sound as opposed to a V.
@lowenzahn3976
3 жыл бұрын
And Adamah (אדמה) means earth/ground. Adam and Eve are Earth and Life.
@VictorLepanto
3 жыл бұрын
@@lowenzahn3976 Adamah & Eve (Chevah) are analogized throughout the creation story. The Earth & Eve are treated a typological parallels. The Earth is Mother Earth & Eve is literally called the mother of all the living. A mist is described as rising up from the primeval Earth & the Hebrew word for mist is a rhyme for the Hebrew name of Abel. Abel is supposed to illustrate how man's life like an insubstantial mist. Arising for a brief & quickly vanishing. There are many ways in which the primeval Earth is treated like the mother of all life, both plant & animal & for man as well.
@ruralsquirrel5158
3 жыл бұрын
How do you solve a problem like Maria?...oh, wait...
@Hoo88846
3 жыл бұрын
And in Cantonese, we call Eve (the original woman) as Ha Wa 夏娃, from the same Hebrew origin 🤩
@johnandrez
3 жыл бұрын
There's a traditional Catholic hymn in Latin that puns on Ave and Eva: Ave, maris stella, Dei Mater alma, atque semper virgo, felix caeli porta, sumens illud "Ave" Gabrielis ore, funda nos in pace, mutans Hevae nomen. You can hear it here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/roSHrp-fqaeckqg
@gayzion
3 жыл бұрын
ok I made many attempts throughout my years in liceo classico to point out some of these hebrew/semitic loanwords in latin and greek but no-one cared lol - so happy to have found your video! :) thanks for the beautiful linguistic journey
@petermsiegel573
3 жыл бұрын
Very informative video. BTW, Maryam, like Samson or Balaam, reflects standard Hebrew which was captured accurately in time in the Septuagint. Some time after the Greek and Latin translations were documented, under certain stress patterns, an -a- vowel shifted to -i-. This explains Balaam (Bal'am) > Bil'am in Masoretic Biblical Hebrew, as well as Maryam > Miryam, Samson (Shamshon) > Shimshon, magdal (Mary Magdalene) > migdal. People often make the assumption this was an innovation in the Greek or Latin or an issue of Aramaic, but indeed it is a simple, regular sound change documented between Late biblical Hebrew and the Masoretic Hebrew we have today. {Gary Rendsburg dates this "corollary to Philippi's Law" ca 400 CE or later!)
@th60of
3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating! I had never heard of there being a Phoenician root. My old Georges dictionary postulates a homonymous aveo, meaning "be blessed", and I used to think the short e was just iambic shortening. So the (very) occasional plural (h)avete and the infinitive (h)avere are just secondary forms then?
@billsmalley4911
3 жыл бұрын
So it seems. Just making it into a verb. Though, given how language works, it's not wrong to say 'avete!', it simply is a very defective verb.
@vulpes1610
2 жыл бұрын
This use of _salvē_ as all ‘hello’, ‘goodbye’ and ‘bless you’ when it actually means ‘be well’ is still current in Catalan at least in the Northern Valencian dialect. We say _salut!_ which means ‘health!’ in the very same situations.
@maxion5109
3 жыл бұрын
Ah, die zauberflöte as intro, a man of culture i see
@hiberniancaveman8970
3 жыл бұрын
I remember a Greek thinking that the “h” in Homer was English people getting it wrong, and similarly the conductor of a choir thinking similarly about the “h” in Hosanna.
@baruch2511
8 ай бұрын
Oh.. maaaan.. I'm simply flashed. I speak Hebrew and understand Aramaic. When you started your Intro... I already knew where you would (or should) go to... =) I learned latin and koine greek a looooong time ago. What I preserved is the "instinct" for fine nuances of a language and especially its correct pronounciation - I've lerned modern Hebrew in 2 years, speaking it without any accent... though I grew up with Russian and have now German as my mother tongue. I admire the old, ancient languages.... and your extraordinary great work! Keep it on, pleace 🤩
@redivivo
3 жыл бұрын
Ciao Luke, sono uno studente italiano del liceo, ti volevo domandare se potresti qualche volta fare dei video prettamente educativi, in cui, ad esempio, spieghi la consecutio temporum o altri argomenti relativi all'analisi del periodo. Grazie e ita semper persevera perché amo guardare i tuoi video.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Grazie per l'idea!
@weirdlanguageguy
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, fascinating! I had no idea ave was related to Eve. Great video!
@jacktoth-egeto45
3 жыл бұрын
Der Lingvist, is that German with Futhark? Cool man! 👍
@weirdlanguageguy
3 жыл бұрын
@@jacktoth-egeto45 yes, and thanks
@Ivan-ln3wh
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Incredibly well made. One of your best videos recently.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Very kind!
@orlogheen
3 жыл бұрын
A wonderful video, thank you very much!By the way, a big like on the effort to try and pronounce the reconstructed spelling of חוה, the thing is the accent needs to fall on the last syllable(khaw-WA). I don't know if the Punics had the same imperative that we have in Hebrew but if so our imperative form is חיה(pronounced as kha-YE) for the infinitve form לחיות(Likhyot in Modern Hebrew, "to live") maybe this is the word the Romans heard and borrowed.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Ah, well let's assume I have a Roman accent
@ilVice
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting, thank you. (The Shish cameo was perfect)
@shellyharry8189
3 жыл бұрын
great lesson! Luke, you always explain complex issues so they are both relatable and easy to understand! thank you!
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Shelly!
@wolfedelasandia3109
3 жыл бұрын
Mary comes from Hebrew Miriam, though, which means either bitter, sea/water, elevate, as well as other meanings which all appropriately apply to the Virgin Mary in respect to her titles (Our Lady of Sorrows [bitter]< Star of the Sea [water], Queen of Heaven/Theotokos/Mother of God [elevate]). Just shows the beauty and power behind the name
@xmini-ul7je
3 жыл бұрын
In hebrew "mara(h)" means "bitter", Miryam means "beloved by God", Maryam means "that with the beautiful face", this guy talks about the first word, not about these names nor about their meanings, why?. See ya.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Evidently it's not clear; the best guess seems to be that Hebrew took it from Aramaic to make Hebrew Miryam
@JustUsCrazyBoyz
3 жыл бұрын
Magnificat anima mea dominum!
@Mihail91N8
3 жыл бұрын
R: "Et exultavit spiritus meus in Deo."
@matheuspaiva4995
2 жыл бұрын
Meu Deus, não sabia que os Romano já mandava salve antes da gente 🇧🇷. Btw Salve!
@somaisumsilva5965
3 жыл бұрын
Sua explicação é muito boa e divertida! Parabéns!
@DimitriDeAlencar
3 жыл бұрын
Suggestion for you: Sardinia has a language that is considered the closest Romance to Latin. What about an “Ecolinguist-style” experiment of Latin vs Sardinian? Great video as usual.
@voxincaelo
3 жыл бұрын
This is bugged me for years. Thanks Luke!
@betrisherninox2865
3 жыл бұрын
Have we all read Catullus 84, in which he mocks a self-important civil servant called Arris (Harrius?) about aspirating his aitches? It was this, not his meanderings about Lesbia, that made me love Catullus!
@MensHominis
3 жыл бұрын
Not just aspirating the aitches (which, as Luke says, was correct at the time), but using hypercorrect h in words which should begin with a simple vowel, I'd say? (Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.) And even aspirating initial c as ch (probably like classical χ?) in one example ... now that's borderline Swiss. 😄
@betrisherninox2865
3 жыл бұрын
@@MensHominis Yes, that's right, of course. In our second year Latin class, we were all encouraged to rewrite the Arrius poem in fair English. Some of the results were hilarious, but not quite as hilarious (or biting) as our friend, Catullus. :)
@saintburnsy2468
3 жыл бұрын
It was Catullus 16 that did it for me, lol
@betrisherninox2865
3 жыл бұрын
@@saintburnsy2468 LOL! Did you know you can buy frilly ladies' sunfrocks with Catullus 16 embroidered daintily on them? What a lovely touch!
@saintburnsy2468
3 жыл бұрын
@@betrisherninox2865 😂 I want this now! Always fun to drop a casual "p*dīcābō..." into conversation when the topic turns to Latin or Classical poetry, amongst those who don't know about Catullus 😂 Edit: especially when the implication is that people back then were all "cultured" and above such explicit vulgarities hahaha Ahh yes, the noble Romans... _p*dīcābō ego vōs et irr*mābō_
@faramund9865
Жыл бұрын
Incredible, thank you.
@AndrewL31413
3 жыл бұрын
I don’t know Latin so I have no idea why I watched the entire video with intrigue
@romancetv762
3 жыл бұрын
На канале уже 116 тысяч! Поздравляю!
@guillermorivas7819
3 жыл бұрын
Few Mexican speakers sometimes make this error with placing a "h" where there shouldn't be any. For example, "yo hiba" instead of "yo iba" and "yo lo heche" instead of "yo lo eche". Crazy how we are finding out the true origins of Ave. In Spanish we say "salud" after some body sneezes which means "be well" or "health to you".
@sameash3153
3 жыл бұрын
Wow. I never even questioned whether ave was not an imperative.
@erwinheinrichstromer1156
Жыл бұрын
8:47 I ain't Italian, but having seen Matteo Renzi's speech, I laughed at that
@Brandon55638
5 ай бұрын
Me too. The meme is hilarious. 😂😂
@HarveyHaans
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting! I have a Stuttgart Vulgate (Biblia Sacra iuxta vulgatam versionem) which is a critical edition of the Vulgate that claims to be the closest to Saint Jerome's original (the original is as it were extracted from the many manuscripts they studied). It uses "have" instead of "ave", but I wonder if, at the time of Saint Jerome in the 4th century, would this spelling even still have been around?
@Mavors1099
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent information, as usual. And there you have, another issue for your videos "Latin in music": requiems, medieval songs, even Hollywood (Preliator by Globus, Ave Satani by Jerry Goldsmith, etc.). SALVE!
@talkcommonsense
3 жыл бұрын
Once again, brilliant!
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@geoffbakerhytch5623
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for yet another fascinating, informative, entertaining, erudite video…please keep up the good work😎!
@VeronicaBrandt
3 жыл бұрын
This is so detailed and persnickety. I love it!
@baerlauchstal
3 жыл бұрын
As we Newcastle United fans say, _Have_ the lads.
@ironinquisitor3656
3 жыл бұрын
Had no idea it was a borrowed word.
@rtyria
3 жыл бұрын
I have always wondered where "ave" came from.
@HoratiusClementinus
3 жыл бұрын
As far as I know "Avē" began to be used first by Romans speaking to Emperors and was used commonly as vocative regardless of a puritan view of the origin of the word. Nevertheless: Grammarians 0 - I Living Languages since ancient times hahahaha
@iain349
3 жыл бұрын
Poly, you beard looks fierce. Oh and also another good video.
@adrianobildhauer5104
2 жыл бұрын
you channel has good etimology work. thanks.
@polyMATHY_Luke
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching
@drkarmakid
2 жыл бұрын
Ḥawē (stress on the last syllable) can also be used in Mishnaic Hebrew to mean "live!"; however, Ḥayē is the more common way of saying "live!" in Biblical Hebrew. /w/ and /y/ often shift around in Semitic languages... hence, the Jewish way of saying "cheers!" is lechayyim ("to life"), with the Hebrew word's root being identical to the Punic Ḥawē: ḤWY / חוי / 𐤇𐤅𐤉. Great video!
@iberius9937
3 жыл бұрын
Amazing!!! I would never have known such a prominent Latin greeting was of Phoenician/Hebrew origin.
@cinemint
3 жыл бұрын
All of those languages have a ton of cognates it seems, especially from Phoenician -- remember, all those nations were right next to each other and traded often
@Facconti
3 жыл бұрын
Is it a coincidence that you post a video drawing a connection between the Virgin Mary and Eve (something that has been done since the Patristic Age) just on a Marian day? Today is the Feast Day of Our Lady of Mercies! Also, check the Medieval hymn Ave Maris Stella, which makes a word play with their names: "Ave Maris Stella/Dei Mater alma/Atque semper virgo/Felix caeli porta/Sumens illud AVE/Gabrielis ore/Funda nos in pace/Mutans EVAE nomen..."
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
A lovely coincidence!
@luismarin739
3 жыл бұрын
I love Ave Maria Stella , it is a beautiful song
@thespasm86
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting note that Hawwah in Arabic (pronounced very similarly to Hawwah in biblical Hebrew) is the name of Eve in the bible.
@andrewcouto5620
3 жыл бұрын
Thank-you so much!!! I love your videos
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them!
@Vaalin
3 жыл бұрын
Killed me with the Renzi shish meme. I'm still cringing since the day of that press conference in which he displayed that... "English" .
@StopChangingMyNameYoutube1
3 жыл бұрын
I would say this is less an example of "bad" latin and more a comprehensive explanation of how language evolves over time. You see similar changes with modern languages all the time, including the adoption of foreign words into the lexicon.
@polyMATHY_Luke
2 жыл бұрын
You appear to agree with me.
@PavelSedlak
3 жыл бұрын
In the next video Luke can move to the next verse and explain the ablative after plēna. I'm aware that it had been used, but is that good Latin from classical grammarian point of view? During my Latin self-learning, I have always seen it used with the genitive.
@michaelheliotis5279
3 жыл бұрын
Classical grammarians likely would have found plēna + ablative of means to be grotty as it's a later innovation, though not "Late" as Quintilian (writing in the 1st Century) suggests that this use of the ablative was a relatively recent development in _Education of the Orator_ 9.3.1. Though it can't have sounded too hideous if people started using it in the first place.
@lucafarina8601
3 жыл бұрын
It is also interesting that the Te Deum says "Pleni sunt caeli et terra majestatis gloriæ tuae", while the Sanctus says "Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloriā tuā"
@hexf3248
2 жыл бұрын
8:46 LMAOOOO Renzi's speech in English was legendary.
@OrolesMagnus
3 жыл бұрын
In Romanian we have the word "Avere" which means Fortune.
@cbrusharmy
3 жыл бұрын
Can you do _gaudeamus igitur_ ?
@silviomp
3 жыл бұрын
"Salve" in Portuguese is also slang, meaning basically "hi", and it's used just like when people say "I wanna give a shout-out to..." Here it's more like "I wanna say 'Hi' to.. "Quero mandar um salve para" (lit. I wanna send a "salve" to...) and then you mention the person's name who is probably watching/listening or maybe present at the show. Interesting how some words have somehow survived after centuries. Great video as always!!
@MTd2
3 жыл бұрын
Ave (for prayers), Salve! (still used in Portuguese for Hello!, but not as frequently as Ola! or Tudo Bem?), and Vale in Spanish ( for Ok!) or in Portuguese Valeu (past, same meaning).
@chiaradb327
3 жыл бұрын
You can use "salve" in italian, too.
@user-kt5rv9ub2u
11 ай бұрын
Interesting. It would seem odd to great someone as important as Our Lady with a foreign expression, but I reason it would be akin to how "tchau" (ciao) has become the standard "bye" in Brazilian Portuguese, in a way that it would not be strange to say "tchau" to Our Lady Etymology and language use is an interesting subject! Do more on this topic someday, if you please 😊 thank you Luke
@daughter_of_eve04
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting! English isn’t my mother language, so now I’m learning English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic at the sane time! And some other languages in the comments. I like etymology, because you see how much languages are connected with each other and how words develop and change.
@goncalovicente1
2 жыл бұрын
Your comment regarding Maria and the necessity of tonic accentuation reminded me of a sermon of Father António Vieira, where he at one point, and purposely, calls Maria 'Domina Maris'.
@polyMATHY_Luke
2 жыл бұрын
That would be a folk etymology. But charming
@LolTollhurst
3 жыл бұрын
I really liked the Eva Wall-e part :3 A gentle thought for how wide communication is, depicted by two little robots who don't speak with words
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
I adore that movie
@rjltrevisan
10 ай бұрын
Interesting, here in Brazil we have the expression "auê" which has many uses, among them something like "woohoo!", or even as a "hello". And we use "valeu" as a kind of goodbye.
@katam6471
3 жыл бұрын
We actually had a discussion in my choir this week on pronouncing the 'h' or not when singing a song in latin and nobody really knew. Have I understood it correctly when I think the answer is that it depends on whether you are singing with the classical or ecclesiastical pronunciation?
@malarobo
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, the romans between the 1st century BC and the 2nd century AD pronounced the "h" with aspiration (classical pronounciation). Then they stopped to pronounce that sound. Thus it depends on the historical era. I think a song in latin, if it's a church song, should be sung in ecclesiastical pronounciation because it was certainly composed in medieval or more recent times and because the modern pronounciation of latin is ecclesiastical. It's a different matter if you want to read a classical poetry (for example a poetry of Catullus). Otherwise it would be like singing a Beatles song with the pronunciation rules of old english.
@katam6471
3 жыл бұрын
@@malarobo Thanks, no 'h' then! :-)
@hiberniancaveman8970
3 жыл бұрын
Saints Ambrose, Augustine and Jerome were three centuries or more after that inscription in Pompeii got covered by volcanic ash. So plenty of time for "h"s to have been dropped all over the Roman empire.
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
In standard Ecclesiastical pronunciation h is silent as in Italian.
@katam6471
3 жыл бұрын
@@polyMATHY_Luke Thanks!
@harrynnebank8321
3 жыл бұрын
Salve for greetings is kinda popular nowadays amidst some kids in Brazil
@uservdhdunxinfstinf
Ай бұрын
i just realized that you look a lot like william shakespeare and i can’t unsee it lol. love all your videos. thanks for the wisdom, knowledge, time, and production 🤟🏼
@divarachelenvy
3 жыл бұрын
You HAVE a way with words
@polyMATHY_Luke
3 жыл бұрын
hahaha
@divarachelenvy
3 жыл бұрын
@@polyMATHY_Luke my first Latin pun, glad you liked it....
@JoCaTen
3 жыл бұрын
Bad Latin? You should try the band ERA. To those who don't understand, the band is known for their song "Ameno"
@NautilusSSN571
3 жыл бұрын
They're not even trying to get it right tho
@JoCaTen
3 жыл бұрын
@@NautilusSSN571 I know, I'm just curious about the amount of valid or altered words.
@JoutenShin
3 жыл бұрын
Dori me Interimo ayapare, dorime Ameno, ameno Latire, latiremo Dori me Ameno Omenare imperavi ameno Dimere, dimere matiro Matiremo, ameno Omenare imperavi emunari Ameno Omenare imperavi emunari Ameno Ameno dore Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Ameno dom Dori me reo Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Dori me am Ameno Ameno Ameno Omenare imperavi ameno Dimere dimere martiro Martiremo, ameno Omenare imperavi emunari Ameno Omenare imperavi emunari Ameno Ameno dore Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Ameno dom Dori me reo Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Dori me am Ameno, ameno Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Dori me, dori me, dori me... Ameno Ameno dore Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Ameno dom Dori me reo Ameno dori me Ameno dori me Ameno, ameno Ameno Ameno dori me Ameno Ameno dori me Ameno dom Dori me reo, ameno Ameno dori me Ameno, ameno dori me
@edoardotrabucchi1648
3 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@megazekemeister
2 жыл бұрын
The Hebrew imperative of the same verb would be חיה (ḥaye) - it's not used much in Hebrew, but in Modern Hebrew there is the phrase חיה ותן לחיות - "live and let live". The regular greeting in Hebrew is of course שלום (shalom - peace) - variants of which can even be found in the Bible - though in Biblical Hebrew we also find other greeting phrases like "God is with you". A nice similar Biblical phrase to the Punic one can actually be found in the Aramaic of the Book of Daniel - we find the king often being greeted with the phrase מלכא לעלמין חיי - "may the king live forever" - pronounced there "ḥayi"
Пікірлер: 815