FSR/DLSS should be a nice little bonus to boost your already solid framerate, it shouldn't be required to get the game to work right
@Elite7555
Жыл бұрын
But FSR 2.1 (I don't know about DLSS) additionally provides temporal anti-aliasing. And considering that TAA will always be a bit blurry, FSR holds up incredibly well (in quality mode), while also providing a modest performance boost. It also quite effectively removes aliasing from Hairworks in TW3, so you don't have to rely on MSAA, which makes it actually worth using.
@bravish
Жыл бұрын
Not right now, but when every computer has the capability to do AI upscaling, It will definitely be the next step into making really good looking games by developing with it as the base.
@NerdyJacked
Жыл бұрын
I agree with number 1. With games becoming too powerful graphically.
@GewelReal
Жыл бұрын
@@Elite7555another weirdo that likes TAA
@zzz66688
Жыл бұрын
@@bravish I think so too, and by that point, native resolution's only purpose will be to take close-up screenshots within the game.
@fablearchitect7645
Жыл бұрын
relying on DLSS to optimize your game is like using glue to hold your submarine together at depth.
@PuncherOfWomenAndMinorities
Жыл бұрын
have you heard of a little submarine called "Titan"?
@chloewebb5526
Жыл бұрын
PCs are now doing what consoles have been doing since the Xbox360/PS3 era: running in low resolutions and trying to act like they're not. Most of that old console era was 720p, even though all our tvs and systems were 1080p - and with xbox one/ps4, it was the same thing, a lot of "adaptive resolution". It's going to suck if this starts to be more commonplace in PC games. I remember being happy that my little 2060 had DLSS, as I figured it would give me a bit more oomph, but it's been a mess in most games that bring it on board, who only bring it to cover problems and not to help broke ass PC gamers like me lol
@SoneGurke
Жыл бұрын
@@PuncherOfWomenAndMinorities that's a new one. you got the joke but you didn't get it
@SoneGurke
Жыл бұрын
or reuse condoms
@TheTuttle99
Жыл бұрын
And we all know how that turned out
@brucerain2106
Жыл бұрын
I have a feeling we’ll see a lot more games like this
@bigturkey1
Жыл бұрын
60fps 4k dlss performance with 3080 and 120+fps 4k dlss performance with 4090 does seem the way new games are being optimized for. Makes sense with how many tvs support 4k 120hz now. theres got to be way more people overall buying more 4k 120hz tvs vs 1440p/1080p monitors in 2023.
@Rairosu
Жыл бұрын
Except FSR and DLSS is not the problem, Just because FSR and DLSS exists does not mean its a free pass to 100% skip optimizations. It does not automatically make Devs extremely lazy. They cannot get way with just FSR/DLSS alone with Zero game optimizations.
@theunwantedson
Жыл бұрын
@@Rairosu they are litterally skiping optimization bro .that has we have seen in recent games
@NoiceBOB
Жыл бұрын
Just look at cyberpunks phantom liberty update and starfield. This is BS. The way the gaming industry has gone the less and less I want to play games anymore.
@GlassesAndCoffeeMugs
Жыл бұрын
@@NoiceBOB Starfield isn't even going to have DLSS at all on release, please do research first
@dentboxhero1717
Жыл бұрын
The GPU race has turned into the best "crutches" race.
@hypnotiq
Жыл бұрын
not the gpu manufacturers fault. the game devs are using cool features like dlss & fsr as an excuse to not properly optimize their games. Like a lot of people said they would when it first got announced.
@m1l22
Жыл бұрын
@@hypnotiqnvidia is also guilty of this issue of slacking off due to dlss, the 4060 is a garbage graphics card because it literally depends on dlss to get good fps
@Bustermachine
Жыл бұрын
@@hypnotiq I disagree, the pipeline for GPUs, graphics engines, and game development, is too interlinked to say that the problem sits solely in the lap of any one of the three. They're all to blame.
@hypnotiq
Жыл бұрын
@@Bustermachine also very true
@anxivty
Жыл бұрын
@@hypnotiq its a mix of both. nvidia and game devs are both at fault
@Psrj-ad
Жыл бұрын
i always feared DLSS and Nanite because despite being pretty cool tech wise, it was an extremely easy excuse big companies could use to completely ignore game optimisation more than they already do.
@Rairosu
Жыл бұрын
Except FSR and DLSS is not the problem, Just because FSR and DLSS exists does not mean its a free pass to 100% skip optimizations. It does not automatically make Devs extremely lazy. They cannot get way with just FSR/DLSS alone with Zero game optimizations.
@Tub-Nub
Жыл бұрын
You don't know what Nanite is
@fern0653
Жыл бұрын
Nanite IS optimization
@nicolasmossmannlemos7135
Жыл бұрын
What Nanite has to do with it? The thing is a real optimization for geometrical objects
@bjornskivids
10 ай бұрын
Welcome to the next generation. I remember when everyone was "forced" to upgrade their machines when everything was suddenly created for 3d video cards And people cried just as much about being "forced" to upgrade.
@NathanialSCoughtry
Жыл бұрын
The second upscaling technology went from an optional feature to increase FPS for users willing to compromise on certain visual features to mandatory to achieve even just 60 FPS, the industry started to lose its way. This is a horrible trend starting, and I'm worried this will be the standard going forward.
@kevinerbs2778
Жыл бұрын
It's a total contradiction of what raytracing was supposed to add to the games. Raytracing = better accuracy of shadows & reflections for "high picture quality", but lower fps, D.L.S.S = "worse picture quality" by removing the accuracy of things like AA, AF, shadows, & draw distance, but higher fps.
@meuhtalgear
Жыл бұрын
@@kevinerbs2778 Modern AA was already removing details, with methods like TAA creating ghosting and blurring the whole picture. I honestly think DLSS and FSR are the best kind of anti aliasing at high resolutions, since MSAA is so heavy on the framerate and TAA doesn't look good imo.
@evaone4286
Жыл бұрын
@@meuhtalgearYou don't even need AA at higher resolutions like 4k. Downscaling just makes you image look like dogshit. Its something you don't really want if you play at higher res
@Aggnog
Жыл бұрын
Cringe take. This happens because of console culture that is based on locked 30 or 60 fps. DLSS is not responsible for the developers picking one over the other, and in most cases still being unable to deliver.
@snakeplissken1754
Жыл бұрын
@@evaone4286the need for AA isn't resolution bound but based on screen size and resolution. 7" 1080p doesn't need AA cause your eyes can't make out jagged edges.
@Black-Dawg-Jesus
Жыл бұрын
Just imagine how the world would look like if every business application was in the state of your average videogame. The world would collapse. Great, now your PayPal transaction takes several days, your money can instantly vanish, your browser crashes constantly, database roundtrips take hours, you need a high-end gaming PC to start the simplest office software, and the list goes on and on. I will never understand how you can be proud of the state of such a product. At this point, videogame development feels like the choice for junior developers and once you actually have any understanding on how to develop software, you move on to a different industry.
@Mako2401
Жыл бұрын
Wait till the next gen when AMD won't make any high end cards. you'll pay more for less, and be happy for DLSS 4 while Jensen Huang gets another leather jacket .
@rainewolf2494
Жыл бұрын
Paying more for less is better then the more you spend the more you save.
@chunchunmaru5128
Жыл бұрын
DLSS 3 is actually locked via software on the non-40 series GPUs, nvidia is truely doing this only for pure gain
@vogonp4287
Жыл бұрын
Intel Battlemage had better be competitive. They are our last hope.
@Hairybarryy
Жыл бұрын
Either that or use a console lol. I'm so pissed that the Xbox series S runs games better my 3090 desktop. The console litteraly only has 4 terrflops of performance!
@riven4121
Жыл бұрын
@@vogonp4287 Intel is essentially a year behind Nvidia and AMD. Battlemage is going to be launching when RDNA 4 and Blackwell are coming out and it's aiming to compete with current gen not Nvidia's and AMD's next gen. Intel won't be competing against Nvidia's high end either so Nvidia has even more of an incentive to do what they did with the 40 series outside of the 4090 and move all products down one tier while charging more because AMD isn't competing either. It's the same reason why Nvidia just cancelled the 4090 Ti. They have no reason to ever release it because their main competitors are nowhere near close to their level of performance.
@mazzpsykoziz
Жыл бұрын
I would imagine the devs do care, the real question is whether the suits they answer to cares. Think of the bottom line and how much money you can save if you can just use the magic slider to fix the problems that would take more development and therefore more time and money. I like to think that the actual developers generally care about what they produce and that problems typically stem from higher up. Like the guy at a store who genuinely wants to provide proper service but the bossman thinks of it as a reduction in productivity because that energy could be used to stock more items.
@zexa252
Жыл бұрын
As someone who's an upcoming game dev, I can confirm most people [devs] do care, we want our games to be played how we want them, sadly I agree that the people cracking the whip simply don't care, they don't see games as art they see it as a "product" as something to be done as quickly, cheaply and as profitably as possible If it means that there's a way to almost cheat performance into a game, I can grantee they'll do it, because if there are corners to be cut, they'll cut alright, it's the sad state of some modern games
@Marsk1tty
Жыл бұрын
We need more flat organizations with less management, let the professionals be professional
@zexa252
Жыл бұрын
@@Marsk1tty flat originations aren't the best, they mostly work in small groups, once the groups get big enough power dynamics and invisible hierarchy is created It's good for indie projects but the bigger the game gets the more people is needed than the flat hierarchy can handle
@pizzaplanet33
Жыл бұрын
they dont modern devs only know copy n paste and cry
@theskywalker8416
Жыл бұрын
imagine thinking dlss or frame generate are "sliders"... DLSS/FSR is up scaling to reduce resolution of objects that barely or unnotice in a frame (which almost doesnt affect the experience) to boost up performance which gain a TON of experience when you gaming
@silvy7394
Жыл бұрын
The main problem is devs not optimizing for DX12. In some cases,devs are just taking their game, running it in DX12, but then converting those calls to DX11 which hits your performance even more. Its sad that the entire software industry in recent years has been more concerned about taking shortcuts and pumping out content that it has optimizing their software to run better.
@santmc12
11 ай бұрын
This!
@DiogoManteu
11 ай бұрын
this is not how graphics API work. they are too different.
@silvy7394
11 ай бұрын
@@DiogoManteu I'd advise you to do your research. They arent. Hell, Intels GPU's do this all the time by converting older DX calls to 12. Thats why recent Intel GPU's dont perform as well on older DX versions.
@DiogoManteu
11 ай бұрын
@@silvy7394 that's not on the game or engine programmer.
@silvy7394
11 ай бұрын
@@DiogoManteu It is if they're so fucking lazy they wont convert their game to 12 and instead just translate 11 calls to 12. Or not develop for 12 and kill performance on cards like Intel's. Get out of here 🤡🤡. You dont know shit.
@sebastianturner2458
Жыл бұрын
I personally think this is also an advertising issue - fancy graphics and tricks look and sound real good in trailers (and some gamers also get real obsessive about having big numbers,) but there they can just run it on a supercomputer and ignore the optimization. Then, actually making it run well on normal devices takes a lot more dev time than the studio will usually sign off on when they can just upscale and call it a day with relatively minimal impact on their profits. Kind of a funny parallel with apples (red delicious in particular) - in the short term, people buy fruits in the store based on how they look and maybe feel, so stores select for fruit that looks pretty and stays fresh as long as possible. Problem is, with apples, that means they end up waxy, grainy, and bland when you actually eat them.
@Rairosu
Жыл бұрын
Except FSR and DLSS is not some dark magic wizardry that makes optimizations just magically work right out the gate.
@lostinseganet
Жыл бұрын
DLSS was a great idea for VR. Using it to make the other frames needed for the second eye.
@andrejpetrovic8587
Жыл бұрын
I don't you'd want it in VR as the artifacts would be more visible.
@GeneralLee131
Жыл бұрын
All of the post processing effects in deferred rendering games add tremendous amounts of blur to the experience. From TSAA, to Upscaling algorithms, to whatever else they come up with to cheat poor performance, you get a sloppy picture. I already have blurry vision, i don't want my games to be blurry too! It's supersampling the Native resolution and no AA for me.
@meuhtalgear
Жыл бұрын
I think DLSS and FSR are the best antialiasing performance wise. At 4k the blur is negligible but ghosting is what annoys me the most.
@TheMeanJoeGreen
Жыл бұрын
Fsr is the worst
@theostachowiak2283
Жыл бұрын
Not really for ds dlss have better clarity then native res at 4K, and same as cp
@nick15684
Жыл бұрын
The overreliance on it in every new game is the problem. The fact that consumers expect it to be in every new game is also part of the problem. DLSS/FSR should be an absolute last resort, something you only do if your system barely meets the minimum requirements to play the game. It should not be touted around as a standard feature for everyone to use. It should be a tool for getting a game from unplayable to playable on your minimum machine. The more normalized you make that kind of crutch, the more developers will lean on it to excuse bad performance. So instead of getting excited when a game advertises DLSS/FSR support, I would instead be wary of why they are making a big hoopla over something that's meant to be used sparingly. It probably isn't a good sign.
@Jacob_24
Жыл бұрын
I had this thought from a long time that upscaling technologies are discouraging devs to not optimize their games for native resolution. DLSS and FSR are literally ruining games, I remembered when upscalers aren't a thing and devs actually had to optimize their games. Honestly before DLSS came out the last best looking and the most optimized games I ever played was Ghost Recon Wildlands and Far Cry 5 they ran so good on native resolution with my old GTX 1060 6GB
@NeoShameMan
Жыл бұрын
They also have less complex graphics, good optimization then mean lower texture resolution and variety, less interactive foliage, sand and snow, non dynamic lighting, object that shine in the shadows, less complex geometry, etc... ie... battle bits 😊
@pikkyuukyuun4741
Жыл бұрын
I wouldve prefered if AC Odyssey came with fsr instead of me having to run a blurred out 720p
@Ansalion
Жыл бұрын
How are they ruining games? Which part of your gaming experience specifically has been ruined by upscalers? Your game looks a little bit worse? That probably saved the devs months of development time in optimization that they put to make other areas of the game better.
@hachikuji_mayoi
Жыл бұрын
@@Ansalion if the game is made for being played at half resolution even on the latest hardware, gamers who don't yet own an rtx will literally not be able to run the game at all lol. And don't respond by telling people to upgrade, gpus are expensive as shit and if you're able to upgrade your pc, congrats, you're privileged as shit.
@J0rdan912
Жыл бұрын
"Optimized Wildlands" sounds like a joke, but that's okay, at least it scales very well on lower settings for older hardware and had a really massive seamless open world with breathtaking detailed landscapes.
@frighteningspoon
Жыл бұрын
This! When reviewers say shit like "it runs great!" When they're running a game at 120fps with DLSS on a 4090 but 60fps natively, that is hella not good optimization!
@michaelb2westgaedu
Жыл бұрын
I'd love to see someone delve into the laptop gpu arena around this topic. So much weird (and disappointing) stuff going on there already.
@slightcurve98
9 ай бұрын
The big issue is dlss was to help worse cards stay relevant for longe but it’s being used to make more expensive game
@KwamtumPshX
Жыл бұрын
Now I haven't seen DLSS 3.0 in person yet, but I can always tell the difference between an upscaled resolution of a game vs native, and not in a good way.
@marcola4767
Жыл бұрын
You can also see the huge difference in performance
@tomthomas3499
Жыл бұрын
What do we expect? when you have GPU maker put something like upscaling sowftware as the main feature, and not as bonus, ofc game developers also take notes...
@michaelbongco477
Жыл бұрын
Very good point. It really beats the purpose of buying an expensive GPU and expecting it to give out better results and then after installing it to your system, would have you use a software just to make it perform as what you have paid it for.
@Ansalion
Жыл бұрын
But the expensive GPU still does give better results compared to less expensive GPUs? Less expensive GPUs are even more reliant on upscalers compared to your expensive GPU. You’re comparing it against some imagined standard that doesn't actually exist.
@mlg4lyf
Жыл бұрын
DLSS is a double edged sword on one hand ive been using it on witcher 3 and I can't really tell any visual anomalies, so I get why games don't really care about optimization but that is really killing older GPUS cards like the 1080 ti might have a shorter life expetency because developers don't care to optimize anymore
@zergtoss1
Жыл бұрын
Damn good point I didn’t consider this.
@Jtwizzle
Жыл бұрын
Which is a shame, the 1080ti is still a beast and with its 11GB vram could still last a lot longer.
@Thunderwolf666
9 ай бұрын
Devs are absolutely using upscalers to avoid optimisation.
@RenHeika
Жыл бұрын
I think that upscaling techniques are amazing and are a good thing to have been developed, however I had this worry since they released these features and it seems like I was right to worry. I thought that developers would lean on upscaling as a crutch to compensate for having to optimize and even though they can I don't think they EVER should. Upscaling should be there for if you want to use high resolution or if your GPU is starting to show its age, unfortunately I don't think we will go back now and devs are going to keep leaning on upscaling.
@SexManNordin
Жыл бұрын
100% agree. I'm just not gonna buy a game where the devs expect you to use DLSS to compensate for awful optimization.
@dwindeyer
8 ай бұрын
The reality is that as more of the player base gets DLSS capability, more games will increasingly rely on it to hit performance targets. It's unavoidable and will happen.
@cxngo8124
Жыл бұрын
As someone in school for game development, game optimization is one of the worst and most boring part of the project. Not only that but the cost of waiting months to optimize the games costs, and management would much rather update the performance once people have paid for it than go another month without any returns.
@levijosephcreates
Жыл бұрын
Vis blocking, tris culling and the like is really easy to implement at the level design phase of a project, if folks just took some time to understand it, along with games engines being written well. Unfortunately it seems studio's think of it as an afterthought which is lazy and dumb at best.
@tertozer3543
Жыл бұрын
Game optimization is not that hard. Guess, your school is fooling you to create the next lazy devs generation. Sad.
@tertozer3543
Жыл бұрын
@@levijosephcreatesExactly!
@cxngo8124
Жыл бұрын
@@tertozer3543 I know its not hard, its time consuming and boring. Its not a big problem for me, but other people absolutely despise it.
@levijosephcreates
Жыл бұрын
@@cxngo8124 Agree it's time consuming but it's an integral part of being a level designer, again if the engine is good. In my opinion a lot of game studio's are run by suits who don't understand design fully, they think it's possible to just patch bad design at a later date, facepalm. It also seems a lot of studio's seem more bothered about diversity hiring over quality employees these days, although that is a totally separate issue it also plays a part in creating a quality product.
@SpottedHares
Жыл бұрын
Theirs a another factor you might have missed, hiring practices. It not a secrete that the gaming industry like to treat its workers as disposable as possible including the programmers who have to do the codding and the optimizing. They don't have a team of experienced coder that know what their doing and have lot of experience working with that project and other teams that can eak out the performance. They have a lot of contractors crunching their work scheduled working on some one else's code that also might have been some one else's code that they wrote just crunching out their contract.
@ULTRAWIDE.
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree with most of the points. I’m getting fed up with every game these days REQUIRING you to use an upscaler to be playable. Native resolution looks so much better than using an upscaling tech. To me it just comes off as lazy developing. Games from 2017/2019 that don’t use any of these by default still look great today. Say what you want about the game but Anthem for example still looks excellent (even tho you can use DLSS in it but you don’t need to). What happened to optimising a game to run good. It needs to stop.
@MasterBroNetwork
Жыл бұрын
To be fair, Optimization is painful sometimes but it's still no excuse for requiring an upscaler to even play the game properly.
@carlosmarques8380
Жыл бұрын
we went from over optimized games that could fit in a NES cartridge where it should have been impossible, to just almost no optimization in the games and just throwing more gpu cpu and ram at the problem, being limited by the hardware used to push devs to make the most of what the yhave and making incredible stuff, but now seems like no one does that anymore
@CaptainSnuggleButt
Жыл бұрын
Sure but games are several magnitudes more complex now than they were back then. People can talk about optimization but it's not like it's easy when the project is millions of lines of code and the complexity increases constantly. The fundamental problem is that our cognitive abilities have stayed the same and optization has become harder over time. That and game companies caring too much about graphics because it sells.
@Darth001
Жыл бұрын
Maybe devs should be focusing on using the vulkan api more often when making games instead of direct x. Think we will find you use fsr and dlss less when using vulkan more in games as its a great api for even old gpu's
@melchiordelaunay2539
Жыл бұрын
A shit ton of developers did not have a solid optimization credo before the dlss was even a thing, it was (sadly) only logical that they became even more complacent and lazy at the end with the nvidia tech bros doing the job for them.
@d3xx3rDE
Жыл бұрын
Upscalers should be used for cases where the low end gpus are either not enough to run it at a playable frame rate or you want your high end gpus to be more power efficient and so that your room doesn't heat up as fast. It should not be needed for the latest flagship gpu to run the latest games. If your game NEEDS an upscaler to have a playable frame rate, you are doing something wrong.
@mobius5206
Жыл бұрын
I remember reading some comments on some article or something about Starfield (iirc) and its lack of DLSS. You had people genuinely going "If it doesn't have it, I probably won't buy it.". That's so insane to me. Did people really forget that we HAD games that ran at 120+ FPS at NATIVE RESOLUTION if you had a killer PC? How did we go from "Hey look, your 1060 can run this game fairly well now because FSR!" to "Use it to have playable performance on your 3080." Kinda just screaming into the void here, but it's pretty frustrating.
@JonJaded
Жыл бұрын
Full agree with this. There's one thing you didn't touch on in the video and that games that rely on upscaling always age badly. We're not really at the period where we can see this on a grand scale but older DLSS games already suck to play, like Battlefield 1. A lot of these games also have forced TAA which muddies the pixels for a blurry smooth look, like on consoles. Control, God of War, DEATH STRANDING, Gears 5, I can legit keep going. There's a whole subreddit called r/fucktaa where games with forced TAA are mentioned. In 10 years we'll have GPUs that far exceed these games but won't be able to play them at their best because of this.
@youtubecommenter4213
Жыл бұрын
lol, kind of reminds me of the lottery system in my area. it was originally introduced with the promise that the revenue from it would be added onto the budget for school funding each year. years later and the state legislature has cut school funding from the budget and its funding comes only from the lotto...
@GraveUypo
Жыл бұрын
at first i loved upscalers. but the more i use them, the less i like them. they just come out with too many downsides. i think i prefer simply a dynamic res implementation without any upscaler in the vast majority of time. and if i can sustain native 4k, all the better.
@bodifx
Жыл бұрын
I was a an early adopter of 4k monitors, back then it was an insane improvement of image clarity over 1080p, and playing at 1080 looked horrible and blurry. I see the same effect when using DLSS now, feels like I just spread vaseline on my monitor, there is no clarity anymore, just a uniform blurry mess everywhere.
@Doomer2004-u9x
9 ай бұрын
Name one game where dlss looks blurry
@ep1cn3ss2
Жыл бұрын
I remember thinking this could happen when DLSS first got released, that some devs would be lazy and depend on DLSS or use it as a crutch.
@drb0mb
Жыл бұрын
is this like a "i used to walk uphill to school both ways and you should too" type of thing? Is optimization obsolete now?
@crocka1239
Жыл бұрын
Great video :) As a game dev in training. Optimization is an art that seems to be somewhat lost with improvements to upscalers and the accursed input lagging of frame generators. I hope that the recommended settings of games should be standardized to without all these input lagging and reduced quality false features that deceptively make you think that you can run the game without these enabled. It should be stated in the recommended setting in steam if the performance that they are getting is WITH or WITHOUT these features. IMO it is false advertisement to push out a much more unoptimized game and calling it a day
@crocka1239
Жыл бұрын
Don't get me wrong i do not believe that programmers (or game designers) experimenting with these features is a bad thing in itself as it can bring new found life into an older 10 series card. It is bad when it is used incorrectly like lots of games now do and ignore blatant base performance issues
@d.b.c.t1m059
Жыл бұрын
Thats exactly what I feared when they announced it. In theory it would be a cool tool to increase performance especially for big high resolution monitors or TVs. But now it is almost exclusively used as a crutch by developers that can't or won't optimize their games.
@almighty151986
Жыл бұрын
The Remnant II uses Nanite and VSM which are super heavy on the GPU and if you download any UE5 demo and you'll find there just as heavy in the demo's and you need to use DLSS.
@ElJosher
Жыл бұрын
What is vsm?
@ARealPain
Жыл бұрын
People forget that and just wanna complain to complain. "My GTX 980 was great back in 2017, now it can barely push 30 fps in 720p!"
@A.Froster
Жыл бұрын
Ok , but it doesnt look THAT good. I dont care what they use if the graphic quality is barely on par with modern stuff but performs worse then a game with Pathtracing
@ARealPain
Жыл бұрын
@@A.Froster Barely on par? You need new glasses?
@mercury5003
Жыл бұрын
This is similar to how now that computers are able to run with a lot of ram, nobody seems to be optimizing programs to be memory efficient. the bar has been lowered for target framerates because they know they can just have DLSS come in and fix it for them
@EnderMega
Жыл бұрын
Sadly this is the standart software engeneer/programmer mindset in big prodution. All of them think that "CPUs/GPUs are _so powerfull nowdays_ that you should care more about "Clean code" more them performance." and as Molly Rocket said in his video "Performance Excuses Debunked" this wrong; looks like old software was fast *EVEN IN OLD HARDWARE!!!*
@trsskater
Жыл бұрын
This is honestly the point of this technology. Do you remember when you use to have to turn shadows off in your game just to have a playable fps? Do you remember games that has special features like volumetric fog or other silly features that you had to turn off because it would make your computer chug. With DLSS you can play with all features that make a game look pretty without having to own the top teir graphics card. If this tech was available 20 years ago I wouldn't have to turn of shadows, anti aliasing, or even tessellation just to be able to play games that would have looked way nicer with those features turned on.
@rachellejanssen2655
Жыл бұрын
Satisfactory also has this issue in their recent experimental build. The game is just not fun to play with constant stuttering. I don't think it's specifically DLSS, but something in the recent unreal engine upgrade completely fucked up the performance for many people.
@lammyjammer6670
Жыл бұрын
This is by design. Nvidia wants upscaling to be the main driver of performance uplift moving forward. Doing so allows their margins to increase over time per unit and pocket the profit while giving everyone the illusion of technically progressing . Developers are forced to work within that paradigm. It doesn't help that AMD is playing along to those rules and that it will take Intel a while before they're 100% competitive with the ither players in the market but truthfully this is where hardware manufacturers are pushing development.
@QuestForVideoGames
Жыл бұрын
Intel creates limited edition gpus that are discontinued before battlemage is even close to launching. Not to mention they believe gpus should be released every year which is a horrible business model because desktop gpu users typically would upgrade every 2 years and aren't willing to purchase gpus released every year. No one seems to understand that a gpu company needs money for game ready drivers, developing technology, paying engineer employees, paying customer support employees, etc.
@christinaedwards5084
Жыл бұрын
Increasing energy costs and green agenda I see future gpu’s being about low power consumption. This is how they’d do it.
@lammyjammer6670
Жыл бұрын
@@QuestForVideoGames Intel partners are still selling those parts and will continue to do so. Intel themselves stopped making those cards under their own branding but they continue to develop drivers regardless. I don't see a problem with that. A lot of people stay in the headlines and don't read the full thing (as it seems happened with you there...). As a company just starting their discreet GPU business I see no problem with them taking a crack at it yearly. They're clearly still positioning their lines and GPUs are not Intel's bread and butter nor a meaningful source of revenue for their core operations so they can afford to do these things. I think over time they'll have more flexibility when they move to build these chips to their in-house foundries instead of relying on TSMC to make them. Intel has a HUGE advantage in that regard. They can undercut everyone greatly as they have the ability to integrate their manufacturing vertically (something Nvidia nor AMD are able to do). If they can come up with a high-end line comparable to Nvidia the paradigm will be forced to change again.
@lammyjammer6670
Жыл бұрын
@@christinaedwards5084 I'd believe that argument if the latest lines weren't more power efficient and also so depressing. They're not doing it for the environment. They're undercutting raster performance for profit.
@christinaedwards5084
Жыл бұрын
@@lammyjammer6670 I bet there is some juicy ESG black rock WEF money involved.
@jonathanalexander9881
Жыл бұрын
Gone are the days when games were meant to be played at native resolutions 😔
@JonnesTT
Жыл бұрын
It may be important to note that "do devs care" isn't really a reliable question. Most tech artists (i.e. techies who make sure the art looks good and performs well) absolutely want to optimize the shit out of their projects. Sadly not all indi projects can afford a tech-artist. And, while I work as an fresh indie dev (content design no less, I'm as far from art as I can be 😅) I know that in AAA, the "devs" don't always have the freedoms they'd need to optimize further. We still need to fight the execs and business people, and business people always want to jump for the cheapest solution so they can cram more projects, or more "sellable" features into each dev cycle.
@TidsofSteel
Жыл бұрын
Crazy how we spend $500+ for cards that cant even run native resolutions on modern games
@theobnoxiousgamer9624
Жыл бұрын
I like how nanite and lumen were supposed to be rendering alternatives without a real hit to performance but no. It didn’t resolve anything but instead made it worse.
@CaptainSnuggleButt
Жыл бұрын
Nanite literally boosts performance and visual fidelity significantly. The problem is that developers don't include enough graphics options. You theoretically could fine tune Lumen inside games like you can when working with the engine. Developers of course could add those as options, but instead they choose these limited Low to High settings.
@mdsmatheus
Жыл бұрын
A tale as old as time. Our entire reality function on "path of least resistance". Which one demands less resistance? Squeezing FPS by activating an upscaler such as DLSS/FSR/XeSS? or Squeezing FPS through clever programming tricks? The only thing we can hope is that these upscalers improve
@baumstamp5989
Жыл бұрын
fully agree. the reasons to avoid dlss are so manifold. firstly the artistic intent of the graphic/world designers is best represented by native resolution. then there is the ghosting/artifacts which even in newest iteration of dlss are not fully gone. and if you own a rtx card you can test this easily by yourself with contrast rich movment scenes because in youtube it is really hard to see often times. but uncompressed video or live on your monitor you will see it.
@Tub-Nub
Жыл бұрын
This comment just screams "I've seen a KZitem video" finding artifacts from DLSS is genuinely impossible in natural motion unless you record and slow down the footage
@baumstamp5989
Жыл бұрын
@@Tub-Nub i've seen it on my system with baldurs gate 3 in real time, no need to slow down anything. the ghosting is distracting and it's not like any other algo does it better, fsr and xess have the same issues. the thing is only that with dlss 3 it is not AS obvious but it still is there, just try baldurs 3, fs2020, nfs, spider man miles morales ... no need to slow down any footage. just play game and "turn off your nvidia bias" for just a minute. also when you quote in your comment "i've seen a youtube video" ... then you just prove that you didnt read my comment at all since i especially SAID in my first commment that it isn't really visible on youtube but tested on system IRL. so please read before you make false assumptions
@Doomer2004-u9x
9 ай бұрын
I literally can't see a difference between native and dlss
@mmmMindo
9 ай бұрын
If you think about the poor conditions of work at major studios you can espect a major decline at good employees and a exponentially decline at code quality and game quality
@krux02
Жыл бұрын
I think a big major problem for inconsistent frame rates and games not running properly is: game devs just don't build or understand the engines anymore. Everything is built for these prebuilt very complex engines. Only very few people understand the performance implications. This not only means that many games aren't really optimized for the platforms they are made for. But also that most games are just new assets for unity or unreal engine. Apart from arbitrary skill trees and random status effects that are slapped on top, the games kind of feel all the same: dozens of entities with health bars in huge but completely static (mostly non interactive) worlds.
@BRoyce69
Жыл бұрын
Part of the issue is with modern consoles, we're at a point where every other game is plugged into one somewhere on release platforms
@ExacoMvm
Жыл бұрын
3:51 They're basically saying "We didn't optimize the game because you can use DLSS/FSR instead if you're poor and can't afford Hi-End GPU." DLSS/FSR is basically a plugin for UE5 so you can't "Design" the game with it in mind. Devs are just abusing DLSS/FSR, you can tell that by comparing it to other games and how they visually look for example Elden Ring, Tarkov ( some locations ), ArmA Reforger ( Enfusion Engine ) also Hogwarts & RDR2 look great and can run 1080p60fps+ near max settings even on weak GPU's like RTX 2060 or even my GTX 980Ti. Then some new games come out that look barely any better nor more detailed than the other games and you can't even get 60fps stable on Medium-Low settings without FSR/DLSS. For example Diablo IV is a well optimized game that looks good enough and slightly worse than Baldur's Gate 3 but offers insanely better performance ( ~40fps Medium + FSR vs ~120fps max settings ). On another hand in future maybe around when PS6 will be a thing I think nearly every game except eSports will require upscaling+denoising as they will turn 100% Ray-Traced ( Fully DXR based ).
@kahahabahaha
Жыл бұрын
I agree with all your points here. I want optimized performance, because I see no reason to not be getting consistent 3 digit frame rates without frame generation when I set everything to low and DLSS to performance on my 3090
@rico_forever
Жыл бұрын
FINALLY! Someone is actually talking about it! This is what I thought about DLSS since video games started being unplayable without it. While it is cool to be able to boost more frames thanks to DLSS, games doesn't really that good when it is on. I just want to enjoy a game on my decent rig without any upscaler on.
@LowkeyFawkes
Жыл бұрын
It seems like the issue here is that game development is demanding and as the shortcuts come out there not being implemented super well. It's like with Ray tracing it's a lot easier and faster than going in and doing rasterized lighting but it's also a lot more demanding. I might be a little bit out of the loop but it seems like these tools like upscaling have really exploded these last few years and we're just having to suffer through Growing Pains like 3D animation did in the 2000s.
@fern0653
Жыл бұрын
Pretty much. The advanced features of the engine cost a lot more as a base, but become more performant in the complexity that they allow. Devs will still need to optimize for CPU, but the graphics side of things arent as big as a deal so long as the scene isnt filled with transparent textures
@pwnomega4562
Жыл бұрын
i dont even take listed spec requirements seriously anymore anyways, general rule of thumb is if it says you need say a 2060 for example think of maybe a 3060 or 3060ti because most of of the time that req spec requirements is based off of 30 fps 1080p or 720p and gamers usually desire to hit 60+ fps in 1080p with smooth frame-time, keep in mind that's specified only about half the time what fps range or resolution they used to come up with those spec requirements.
@getoveryourself2212
Жыл бұрын
This reminds me of the argument of Mods vs Vanilla game Mod's to make the game run smoother as apposed to not ever wanting/needing mods because the game should've been fine on it's own without them and mods should be a bonus, not a necessity. good video though!
@Lamas236
Жыл бұрын
I can tell you that Nanite is quite demanding, I totally understand choice of not include Lumen since it force you to have fully Dynamic Lighting and Global Illumination can be demanding. I didn't play that game but it seems like that have no day/night cycle so they can pretty much pre-compute light and shadows for static objects. That will save you some FPS and can look much better. As a Game Dev myself I can say that we always aim to optimize game as much as we can. But in big corporation they nowdays often push so hard to even finish features there is no much time left to properly optimize the game. All i can say is that big corpos suck
@domenicotinelli2754
Жыл бұрын
Did you use Pokémon black/white piano soundtrack? Edit: I actually spent 1 hour searching for that theme hahahah, it is the dragonspiral tower theme, you're a man lf culture
@CrackedCogInTheMachine
Жыл бұрын
I've been an avid pc gamer since the 90's back when 3dfx voodoo cards were the king before Nvidia bought 3dfx. The vast majority of games have always had issues at launch. The reasoning behind this was the fact that there are literally thousands of different combinations of pc parts and it is impossible for a game dev to test compatibility for all. Usually it takes a combination of driver updates and game patches to make them playable for everyone. Advances in drivers and Direct X have helped to mitigate some of this, but it has never went away. The complaint of "This game is poorly optimized" at release has been there since the beginning. DLSS at least lets us play NOW instead of weeks from NOW when all the data comes in from a million bug reports and hardware configurations that need to be analyzed.
@Stridsvagn69420
Жыл бұрын
DLSS from my experience even worsens quality if the image has bad contrast. You can notice this very well in Minecraft RTX, but also sometimes in Fortnite, especially when you're in the storm. If I turn off DLSS in Minecraft, my framerate becomes more unplayable (at like 30 or so, before that it's 45, on Flat Worlds it's double that), but you don't have those ghosting and noise artifacts.
@матвейлапушинский
Жыл бұрын
the quality jump from UE4 to UE5 is so significant that it GPU really can't keep up (in one gen). Maybe in 1-2 gens we will get a better native experience. But I still think that we shouldn't sweat too much about it. New tech gives us better experience and easier development pipelines.
@MrNatsuDragneel
Жыл бұрын
With upscaling the games are released with the quality of the new generations of graphics cards today using upscaling, when the new cards arrive in the current games you can disable the upscaling and enjoy the game really as it should be.
@StrikeAxl
Жыл бұрын
Another thing is that nvidia is coming out with cards that, even if the underlying technology is faster, the specs do not correspond to previous generations. Like the 460 having a smaller bus width or less cores than the 3060, for example. GPU manufacturers are slacking and not trying to release actual generational improvements.
@hengineer
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say its required but I will say for the longest time performance was kinda stuck. Gone are the days are games like Crysis where nobody could play it on ultra. DLSS allows developers to make the games they want, and DLSS allows end users to still enjoy quality performance if they don't have the hardware.
@sashabagdasarow497
10 ай бұрын
You are absolutely correct. It's Point 1. GPUs stopped progressing as fast as the software does.
@aciid5081
Жыл бұрын
i dont mind upscaling. For some reason with DLSS on, I can see more details whereas with it off, the game becomes blurry
@wasd3108
Жыл бұрын
"Game tech outpacing GPU's" this is such a dmb statement. We could make demanding games at any point of time to outpace any hardware. DLSS just tells the game creators that they have 2 options. Create on top of DLSS and make ambitiously looking games that would never been possible on hardware currently present. Or not make DLSS a requirement. Both of those options set the bar of a range of devices you could cover, but also how ambitiously looking your game will be.
@anthonylipke7754
Жыл бұрын
End of the day games need to play well with what we have. If upscaling is being used it needs to be made to look better than alternatives. I feel like devs were targeting the 1060 as normal for so long that we were somewhat stuck with chicken and egg to go further. My hope is that the games are being made to be optimal at higher specs that will be good for play in the future while scaling bridges the gap. In principal I don't like frame generation. If taken into the game engine level and optimized with the content maybe depending.
@diogo763
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think any of us want to get a top or mid gpu and not use all of it’s potential and just rely on software to “fix” the lack of optimization. What we should strive for is for a well optimized game and then use DLSS to push it even forward
@Agant.
Жыл бұрын
Man, optimized games are less common now.. What a pain.. I would 200% trade graphisms for a smooth 144+fps
@pyramid4165
Жыл бұрын
We gotta complain more, they still aren't hearing us
@zzizzi02
9 ай бұрын
It reminds me of when some restaurants used shitty ingredients and covered it up with cheap MSG.
@feilox
Жыл бұрын
post patch releases are for stopping warez sharing. They leak the pre-release game, so warez would be running really slow. But that's dumb excuse cuz normally the patch will get implemented for the cracked/warez version as well.
@3draven
Жыл бұрын
One of the main problems of the latest games is that they are using Unreal Engine 5 tech that to be honest is not a 100% production ready. - Nanite is in it's infant stages when it comes to implementation (still lots of edge cases where it's not useful) - Lumen even in 5.3 preview is still very unoptimized. It still has terrible ghosting of the lighting model trying to catch up with the GI calculations. Only Fortnite can utilize the tech in a meaningful way because it's an Epic game, where they can write their own tech to fix things that later trickle down to us devs in future Unreal releases. Unreal (Epic Games) should focus on more core optimizations like - GPU instancing of skeletal meshes - better asset streaming technology (100% asynchronous) - better frame pacing (proper locked FPS limits) This would bring a lot higher performance boost and smoother feeling game-play than frame generation tech & internal rendering scaling.
@bluz1n
Жыл бұрын
Working with game dev/tech team, I think the problem is a mix between the two possible answers. The tech is being tested with high-end hardware and focusing to bring maximum fidelity, better images and so it goes. This means more information and factors to deal with when thinking in optimization. But this reflects in time, and the executives forces the game to be delivered in just a playable state. And so, the dev team needs to rely on existing tech to make faster deliveries, sacrificing a great part of the optimizing, which is time consuming.
@stefanfilipov7254
Жыл бұрын
Gaming Industry has big problems. Over the last decade there are less and less games worthy of your time, and the heavy monetization has literally destroyed good titles. Hardware became ridiculously expensive and at the end of the day there isn't really anything good to run on it. The Big companies are making the same generic soulless games over and over again, but in reality no one cares about realistic graphics, raytracing or any of the high-tech crap they use for marketing. I remember the times when I could replay a game a thousand times and still have fun in it on my Sega, nowdays it's a struggle to even get to the end of it....
@Maxarasta
10 ай бұрын
Your channel needs more visibility, your work is awesome
@chloegrobler4275
Жыл бұрын
FINALLY someone is talking about this trend. i quickly realised game devs were going to abuse these technologies. why did i bother buying a 4k monitor if im jsut going to downscale all the time? also, "recommended/minimum spec" has always been a joke.
@infatuated9970
9 ай бұрын
You can't expect the triple A games today with the graphics they provide at resolutions 2k+ to run at over 100fps without dlss. Especially if you're using ray tracing or path tracing.
@CrisBaggins
Жыл бұрын
There's a simple solution to all of that. DO NOT PREORDER, DO NOT BUY GAMES ON DAY ONE.
@island_dancer
Жыл бұрын
Am Cyberpunk 2D/3D modder. Given how poorly the game ran on last gen consoles I think it would shock most people if they realised how ridiculously optimised mesh and texture assets are in this game. Its almost at the point of stupidity. They wholesale avoid storing and loading colour textures, opting instead to colourise greyscales with vertex colour and gradient maps. They swizzle every normal map. They use predominately 512x512 tileable greyscale materials which are composited by a masked multilayer super shader (basically Substance Designer: The Game). And they do all this so all standard PBR materials can be built from small pre-fabricated building block textures that can be masked and instanced on a massive scale. So there are only 5 leather materials in the game but they can be instanced by 200 mesh objects in a single scene at the same time, with no obvious repetition because every surface is a masked 2 to 20 layer mashup, blended down in shader, on GPU at runtime. And they cooked every single material instance for every single mesh object in the game into giant files, whose contents are ordered very specifically so they can be read more sequentially by slow hard drives with long seek times. There are 4,200 of these cookedapps, totalling 11gb of entirely redundant assets. Just finding a texture used by a mesh is like following Ariadne's thread through a labyrinth that takes you through 5 or 6 intermediary REDengine resource files and as many material instances. This is just one small part of the real-time graphics pipeline. Gamedev is fucking crazy man. Even the ones that are taking a beating these days for poor performance are so ludicrously hyper optimised in many ways it creates problems just to work on them.
@nuadarstark
Жыл бұрын
It's ok if I need to turn FSR or something like that on while trying to get the last legs out of my 2016 GTX 1060. It's not ok to have to turn it on to get a decend experience out of a non-RT game. That's just absolutely insane.
@jgdude7460
Жыл бұрын
The future of computer technology at this moment seems to be heavily AI focused, particularly when it comes to graphics. If you are able to create cards that can simulate full resolutions without sacrificing quality, this seems like a good thing. In fact, as we go further developt ai relating to graphics, this technology will only get better. The days of native resolutions, honestly, are becoming obsolete. There is no reason to force your computer to work harder for what will soon be (and sometimes is) indistinguishable quality from native. Ofc, this should not be at the cost of optimization. But even in games with good optimization, they will be trying to push the boundaries of games way past what is capable natively. A good example would be using raytracing in games.
@dirkboi6844
Жыл бұрын
hey just found ur videos ur style is so seemless and smooth if you had some chill lofi or sum goin in the background this would be 10/10 vibe would watch all day
@Aleksander_Ryback
Жыл бұрын
for me the existence of Dlss at first meant an improvement in performance to the user,now companies only use it to release poorly optimized games and that the user must use it.
@Nintenboy01
Жыл бұрын
I suspect more time is spent on asset creation, level design, etc so optimization falls by the way side due to lack of time, money, and/or manpower
@johnfrian
Жыл бұрын
"Future hardware will solve our performance problems" This mindset has existed for atleast 1-2 decades now, and is the go-to excuse from devs that don't care about optimizations. Then you argue with them and they use the go-to quote out of context: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil". Then they go ahead and do literally no optimization, no attempts at optimization, and are HAPPY about it because of their vague justifications.
@g43s
Жыл бұрын
i remember when the 60s version of any nvidia's graphics card was enought, sad to see this isnt the case anymore.
@whattheduck4644
Жыл бұрын
Ive been playing Remnant 2 for a bit, I have an RX 6950XT paired with a Ryzen 7 5800X3D and 32GB of RAM playing at 1440p. The game defaulted to FSR performance, so i turned FSR off only to find out that i was getting around 68 FPS on high settings not even ultra. I set FSR to quality and left it there, I usually get around 85-90 FPS in a game I feel like I should easily at bare minimum get 120FPS at 1440p high with no upscaling. I don't understand how the developers aren't embarrassed by how poorly optimized this game is. That said, i have enjoyed my time with the game as the gameplay is fun, my main gripe, which is a big one is the poor performance. My friend and I played through Remnant together, he has a 3080TI with an i7 10700K and 32GB of RAM playing at 1440p and the most FPS he gets is around 100-110, I don't know what DLSS setting hes using so not I'm not sure if that's performance, balanced, or quality.
@HikingFeral
Жыл бұрын
This tech is amazing and it's great for games that are not optimized well but like you said, we are seing more and more that devs are not optimizing and expecting people to use this tech as a crutch to get a playable experience. Look at Doom Eternal, that game looks great on Ultra Nightmare settings with DLSS off RTX on and plays amazing, turn on DLSS and it plays even better but my point is that without DLSS, it played amazing to begin with because the devs worked very hard on DE's optimizations. Dragongflight released with terrible stutters on hardware that can run 10 WOW clients at once and it's because optimization has become an afterthought and not a selling point.
@bizantinolynx9678
Жыл бұрын
Hundreds of games released this year on PC, a little bit of them really "needs" DLSS or FSR. Stop complaining of lazy devs. The point of Upscalers is get higher FPS not make the game playable...
@rnegoro1
Жыл бұрын
To a certain extent devs do care about game performance until it reaches a certain standard. E.g we want this game to go at least 90 fps on 4060 1080p. Medium setting.
@carabouzouklis
Жыл бұрын
As others stated. Devs care a lot as for them the fun of the job is building cool things and optimizing. Its the managers and the people above them that dont prioritize anything that doesnt have immediate monetary benefits.
@antre_du_retro
7 ай бұрын
I use upscalers to reduce the gpu's heat and by extension the fan noise.
@xPandamon
Жыл бұрын
FSR helps my 1080 Ti chugging along at 1440p. But unlike DLSS, it is often just an extra and not neccessary for good performance. DLSS on the other hand, seems to be featured by a lot of unoptimized games.
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