1:32 Response by Kierkegaard: "The function of preyer isn't to change G-d's will, but one's own nature" I like this one a lot, but then again that's his view of it.
@iarwainthabombadil7724
3 ай бұрын
function. lol. the function of 400 disposable gloves from Costco is to poop scoop the backyard 200 times.
@UnusualPete
Жыл бұрын
When i think of an all powerful entity that knows all, I usually think of the Watcher from Marvel. He sees everything but doesn't interfere. Because he doesn't interfere, the illusion of free will isn't broken. On the other hand, when i think of "everything is determined", i think of the Multiverse. Every possible action and outcome are already played out. If you go through path A, you don't see the consequences of path B, and vice-versa. But that doesn't mean the other paths stop existing. If you believe that every possible action is already played out, that can invalidate free will. But because you can only see the present, you can believe you made the choice. The way i see God is: one or multiple extra dimensional beings that see our plane of existence but themselves exist outside of it. They see everything we can possibly do, or have done. They may be able to interact with us but not how religion portraits it. I hope this is a decent comment. Or maybe it's just a mess 😂
@polodude19
3 ай бұрын
If I watch a documentary, I made no choices of the main characters, but I know what they are going to choose. Knowing what someone chooses doesn’t necessarily mean the choices are not theirs to make.
@GuideGame1
Жыл бұрын
What's interesting is that when you hear about free will, you think about your own agency to make a choice in the world. And I think that only hearing this makes you do a certain thing as a consequence. What that certain thing is, however, is still predetermined. So..
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
I disagree with the statement that holding the existance of G-d and free will is hard. "There seems to be a hopeless conflict between divine foreknowledge of all things and freedom of the human will..." That is so not true... The key word here is "knowledge". Just because someome, let alone G-d, knows everything, doesn't mean no one has free will. Think about it: we know what happened 30 years ago. Does that mean that people in the past did not have free will?? Of course not. If anything, the more I think abou it the more I see this philosophical "issue" as a prime example of how philosophy can often make us go so far as to ignore the most basic solutions, if left unchecked. And I say this in the most genuine way possible, I don't mean to hurt anyone
@PhilosophyToons
Жыл бұрын
That's a great analogy, thanks for sharing it helped me
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
@@PhilosophyToons I'm delighted to hear that! Thank you!
@pal181
Жыл бұрын
The way that doesn't mean that people in the past didn't have free will, it doesn't mean that people in the past did have free will.
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
@@pal181 yeah that's exactly the point, and so do we
@pal181
Жыл бұрын
@@daniellevy2272 I am confused, what "do we" do?
@NotMe-et9bx
Жыл бұрын
(before watching to the end at the pause point) As a believer in both God and free will, and the absolute primacy of free will in our role in His creation, I think the answer is probably simply that all concepts are contained within God. Not only is He all knowing, but He's all present, time is utterly irrelevant to Him, being that time's existence is subject to His will. He wills the persistence of the universe and it's laws, and sees everything that has happened and will happen, but within the events of our being (while soul and flesh are bound) we are subject to choice, of which we have genuine options, foreknowledge doesn't preclude choice. This is the role many of the prophets played, they simply looked at the pattern of the way things happen, said it was going to play out again if the Jews didn't pick some different path, inevitable it does play out again. Its like when your elementary school teacher told you not to run with scissors or you'd poke an eye out, if you chose not to you avoided fulfilling the conditions or foreknown prophecy, therefore averting the consequences, but if you kept doing it, eventually you probably jabbed yourself; probably not catastrophically, but that's what we call the Lord's mercy if you didn't lose an eye for ignoring your teacher's prophetic claims.
@danielcompton3492
3 ай бұрын
“Is free Will compatible with God?” First thing we need to do is define our terms God and free will. It seems to me that any responsible discussion of the compatibility of free Will and Gods foreknowledge rests on a lot of previous groundwork. Usually that groundwork has not been done in conversations, and so we just talk past each other. What is God and its attributes? Good luck coming to a consensus with this one. What is free will? Compatibilists and incompatibilists define this differently. I do think God is compatible with free Will if a person adopts certain assumptions about the two terms “God” and “Free will”.
@TheTrippySoul
Жыл бұрын
I've been playing around with this idea in my head for a while now, let me know what you think of it, thanks... Free will and conscious choice is just a small detail of a grand painting. An artist can paint an image of flower in a vase, objectively speaking that's all that's needed to present the imagery, a flower in a vase, but details of the shape, size, colors and type of vases or flowers becomes an infinite realm of potentiality, what ever choice is subjectively made there was just that, a subjective choice, the end image is still just a flower in a vase. You have free will, but to God it's a minor detail.
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if I would call it a minor detail like you did in the last line, but I believe I agree with you on the general idea I believe that's the same idea Judaism holds, much like Abraham who, as I understand it, was always going to end up in Egypt, but *how* he would get there, rich or poor, was up to him and his choices So yeah, we have free will, confined by the ultimate path, that's the way I understand it
@ssmot113
Жыл бұрын
This isn't the argument Boethius gives
@allisonseamiller
Жыл бұрын
Comment our own solutions to a problem that's ridiculous from the conception? Assuming we have free will and trying to get things to fit is no different than "assume the Earth is flat, why is the Earth's shadow on the moon round during an eclipse?" It's a pointless question cause the premise it wrong. I've never heard a coherent definition for what free will even would be. There's inevitable things, and maybe there's random things, but what IS free will? Some magical third thing that's not inevitable, but also not random? Some event that does not have a prior cause? The concept doesn't even make sense.
@Opposite271
Жыл бұрын
I have heard that some define it as a quasi first cause which decisions have no sufficient set of physical causal factors and are therefore physically causally underdetermined. But I don’t see anything wrong with simply defining it as internal randomness.
@HEROFrogman69
Жыл бұрын
Ma dude talks about my favorite topic in philosophy with a thumbnail of art from one of my favorite games, am i dreaming?
@PhilosophyToons
Жыл бұрын
Specifically I got it after playing Persona 4, so apologies in advance if you're an SMT fan
@HEROFrogman69
Жыл бұрын
@@PhilosophyToons Fair enough Xd Tho the game is a masterpiece aswell frfr And to the Question of the video, I thankfully study Theology and spend a lot of time on this topic and got the chance to talk to a lot of smarter people about God and free will and came to the conclusion........it is weird and never really works the way you would like. One of the main problems in this debate is, how one defines Free will and how one sees Gods attributes. But I actually have more of a problem with the voluntary and necassary actions, which probably a lot of people will have. Because in the eyes of this all-knowing being, that perceives time a different way, wouldn't even the voluntary actions be necassary actions, in such that they WILL and thus HAVE to happen? For our eyes it surely does look like that the sun moves in a mechanical way, like the rest of the universe, but is there really that much of a destinction between the way a universe moves and the way we humans move? I believe this is somewhat assuming how a god would look at us, which is kinda wacko. And if the goal is to find free will with our human understanding, then this is also not the way. And maybe an example that is obviously a bit deterministic, but in essence is gods allknowingness anyways: If a person was conditioned his whole life to always say no to chocolate for some reason, and his entire life from everyone around his town, his family, school and media enforced that conditioning to never ever eat choclate. Is it really likely that this person will make his Voluntary Free choice to eat chocolate? Isn't it kinda hart to say that the process from this person, to not eat choclate, is a bit mechanical? And sure you might say this is a bit simplistic and dummed down, but wouldn't a god be able to understand a human being in the same way, in such that he would be able to analyze every tiny bit of information about you, around you and in your universe, to be able to know what you will do in the very next tiniest second? In other words, isn't it again WE who simply say we have free will cause it seems voluntary for us? You could still make it work with saying that god knows every possible choice that you could make and this then goes to multiple universes where your choices creates a diffrent possible universe, but this is a diffrent huge headache on it's own, that isn't as smooth as one would like. So in the end, I have not found a good answer to this debate and the church sure as fuck won't give a clear answer anyways, so in the end one has to make compromises in some regard to make those two concepts work, one may choose what they want to compromise and for me personally, it is the free will, and honestly, I don't think that is a bad thing. Not believing in free could make you a more empathetic Individual, if someone does something bad it is way more productive to criticize the possibility of someone like this being created, instead of simply judging the Individual. It would want to make one look deeper into what the root of these problems are and thus be able to create a more peaceful society. But then again it's just in theory, It might have ended good for me but not believing in free will has a lot of problems aswell, but this for another day, sorry for the long comment, much love
@Opposite271
Жыл бұрын
P1: A omniscient being knows everything about what exists. P2: The future doesn’t exist. P3: The future is not determined by what exist. C: Even a omniscient being doesn’t know what exactly will happen in the future.
@floresjason6533
Жыл бұрын
Even though God knows what we are going to do it doesn't mean that we don't have free will. As John Hick argue that God cannot intervene in our action even if lead us to the path that makes our life miserable it didn't interact with it since we have free will in the first place.
@miguelatkinson
Жыл бұрын
Wait if god influenced the course of your life to go down to a certain path then you do not have freewill
@timothyodeyale6565
6 ай бұрын
did he not intervene in the life of several people, for example Paul?
@vieiradelimafilho
4 ай бұрын
Fortune reminds us that our relationship with the Eternal cannot be transactional. Our free will does not mean there is any guarantee to where the chips will fall. Such is the love of God we will always have some degree of power in life, but no control over our fate. We will come to manifest the sum total of the wisdom we attain in the slopes and valleys of life, and it should be clear that we do not learn and mature half as much in times of ease than in times of trouble. As Boetius, learning to accept whatever tragedy inevitably comes our way with grace and gratitude allows wisdom to shine a light onto our path all through the troubled days. The lesson seems to be that we transcend suffering with humility. Only the inner citadel is the place of imperishable freedom. I think Boetius was supposed to manifest the ultimate rejoinder to Stoicism: the necessity of humility, faith and innocence in everything we will, and gratitude and wisdom to everything we get. Do not try to manipulate the world in your continuing favour. You will fail miserably, eventually. But it'll be all worthwhile if at least you (and ideally future generations) learn from your tragedy. The band keeps marching on, ever more harmoniously, hopefully, thankfully.
@kagachmark9896
Жыл бұрын
I think the explanation isn't good enough to hold these ideas together. The critique will be that: if we define god as smth that knows "everything" it means he knows the position and movement of all atoms. Atoms don't move in some mysterious/ random ways. They move based on other physical forces that effect them. REASONING: => If you know all physical forces=> You can say with 100% certainty how they will be positioned at any point in time => you know what will happen at any point in time => therefore we don't have free will ;((( CRITIQUE: The critique of this reasoning can come from quantum physics. Since we know that quantum can be in two places at once. This can be seen as some sort of randomness which would mean we kinda have free will. CONTRARGUMENT: It doesn't work (for me) because your free will doesn't express itself in you having a super power of rearranging quantum particles in certain random way to massively scam god. If the bigboy knows all, he accounts for the "randomness" of quantum particles => which is just saying that he is smart enough to understand that smth can be in both places an once and for him its just another law of physics, so the premise of him knowing all physical forces still stands.
@brandonfraterphoenixbowers
Жыл бұрын
A challenge you to read, "The Secrets Teachings of All Ages." by Manly P Hall. It talks about what you are talking about and the errors your video is telling. I am not saying this to be rude, but to show you philosophy and Christianity has a lot in common. It also had a hand in creating Christianity. I will allow you to read it.
@MSHNKTRL
Жыл бұрын
Going down an "If-Then" rabbit hole leads to an unsurprising dead end at the bottom. The only philosophy that any religion concerns itself with, is its own; and the end of that tunnel is a purely emotional assumption of what their deity must think of their situation.....which is just what the believer wanted to do in the first place.
@martythemushroomman9387
3 ай бұрын
You are a mid-wit. Please refrain from sharing your elementary observations until you thought a little harder. Thanks!
@GuideGame1
Жыл бұрын
I needed to see the title of this video
@jayyyen
Жыл бұрын
Give me everything u got for this worship and prayer
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
I'd recommand listenning to Ben Shapiro and Michael Knowles Even if you don't agree with them politically, their view on religion is logical, beautiful and shows how simple it actually is
@bigpazza8598
Жыл бұрын
Divine intervention isn’t necessary for omniscience, and yes God may have divine foreknowledge however just because he sees does not mean he will act. A God will do what’s necessary or logical for a GOD to do! Aquinas speaks of how we as finite creatures cannot speak of God without making it into analogies, already displaying our uncertainty in what we are assuming. Perhaps omniscience works like Gods omnipotence, self imposed limitation as Peter Vardy believes. However, would God not know about the time space continuum? Due to Perichoresis God has lived in the past, present, and future as Jesus Christ, would this change his view on time?
@TheMirabillis
Жыл бұрын
If God is 'All Knowing', then you do NOT have Free Will. If God sees your past, present, and future all at once, then before you are born, God sees that you would end up in Hell. That means, that when you are born you don’t have any free will to end up in Heaven. This is because God sees your future and you’re in Hell !! Another way of showing why you don’t have free will is in the following: - Before Creation, God knows in His mind that you would do action X. God goes ahead and creates the World. And sure enough, you do action X ( just as God knew that you would ). And because it impossible for God to be wrong, you must do X. You don’t have the freedom of will to do action Y. Since it impossible for God to be wrong, then is follows that it impossible for you to do anything ( like action Y ) which would cause God to be wrong. You must do action X and only action X. You are locked into doing action X. Therefore, you do not have free will.
@DanielFranch
Жыл бұрын
Ayyyyyy megaten!!
@PhilosophyToons
Жыл бұрын
P4 for me
@DanielFranch
Жыл бұрын
@@PhilosophyToons All megaten spinoffs are equally loved by YHWH
@iarwainthabombadil7724
3 ай бұрын
John Cleese brought me here
@dianewallace6064
Жыл бұрын
There is no free will but there is free won't.
@risindacurve799
6 ай бұрын
😂😂😂
@FerozKhan-ss9nn
Жыл бұрын
Good video…
@PhilosophyToons
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@iarwainthabombadil7724
3 ай бұрын
im going to go "All At Once" style, put my Birks on backwards and poopscoop gloveless. see what God thinks of that.
@pal181
Жыл бұрын
God just do SQL request for separating the wheat from the chaff.
@Letik3x
9 ай бұрын
Lady philosophy confuses me…
@lorenzocapitani8666
Жыл бұрын
My views is that just as god gives ignorance to man, he gives ignorance to himself. The reason for this is that: A) He can enjoy the film without the spoilers. B) He doesen't have to act to fix things and can enjoy existance more.
@miguelatkinson
Жыл бұрын
That kinda defeats the point of omniscience
@lorenzocapitani8666
Жыл бұрын
@@miguelatkinson yep, if you want a just good god in this wolrd you have to give up omniscience else he wouldn't be good or he wouldn't be just - guilty by omission.
@daniellevy2272
Жыл бұрын
Btw "G-d works in mysterious ways" isn't an excuse 😅 For some of us it's the only way we feel would be respectful of G-d to discuss these topics, as well as a logical argumemt: The way many of us see it is that it wouldn't be in any way logical to try and box G-d to our limited human understanding Can you understand Einstein's equations? Well then how do you expect to understand the equations of the one who created Einstein? If anything I find this argument to be way more logical than the usual ones given, even though they are compelling in it of themselves :) Overall, "G-d works in mysterious ways" is an oversimplification, but the core logic is consistent qnd makes sense
@miguelatkinson
Жыл бұрын
Umm no that isn't a argument that's a co-opt
@1echuga
9 ай бұрын
gabriel spotted
@noonespecial1178
Жыл бұрын
god must be bored a lot
@PhilosophyToons
Жыл бұрын
Possibly lol
@NotMe-et9bx
Жыл бұрын
Read G.K. Chesterton's Orthodox. In chapter 2 he explains that boredom is a product of sloth or perhaps vice versa. Think of the depressed Zoomer who can't will themselves out of bed. Vivaciousness, by contrast, is characterized by action and love of action, often reparative action (think of children who are enthralled by saying the same thing over and over again, or ask their parents to "so it again" and giggle themselves half to death in seeing the same phenomenon over and over again), and if the universe is characterized by persistent, often repetitive action, it is likely that God, who told us to make ourselves like Children in the Gospels, like a child said "do it again" to the sun and the moon, and "do it again" to the human race in producing the next generation. Genesis affirms that He saw the goodness in all His creation at the beginning of time, and if His perspective is a universal and absolute one, why wouldn't he be entertained by something that by it's nature is good, as it must be, because He declared it to be so.
@damaplehound
Жыл бұрын
@@NotMe-et9bxbecause if the universe is mechanistic then he knows what will happen all the time. Regardless, seriously believing god would experience boredom in the same way humans do would be stupid to say the least, as most of our emotions are product of chemicals in our nevous system and God is an immaterial being (unless we were to talk about Jesus in christianity).
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